Any workout gurus here?

[nippinout]

Whenever I do situps/crunches I get lower back pain. Doing them on a mat or a ball gives me the same lower back pain.

I can do dips without the pain though. I don't think my form is incorrect.

Is my back just really lame?

[trevorjk]

talk to mango

[BobTheCow]

talk to mango<img src="http://www.automags.org/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif">

He knows his shiz.

[insanity415]

im no workout guru, but i get that back pain when i do them too. i'd suggest not doiing situps or crunches any more, theres alot of other excercises that will work your abs. one that i like is where you lay flat on your back and just lift your feet into the air and go so they are straight up, and you can come off your lower back a little bit, it works your lower abs really good and it doesn't hurt my back at all.

[PyRo]

Doing actuall situps hurts my back somtimes, but when I use the machine i'm fine.

[steveo356]

if u realy wana work out that does your abs and aerobics too run as far as u can up stiars around the block a few times w/e with your abs tighted with your arms over your head. I thought my coach was insane but the first time i tried this i could only run a couple times around the feild b4 i was done

[PyRo]

if u realy wana work out that does your abs and aerobics too run as far as u can up stiars around the block a few times w/e with your abs tighted with your arms over your head. I thought my coach was insane but the first time i tried this i could only run a couple times around the feild b4 i was done

I wouldn't do that because everyone would think I was an idiot nomatter how good of a workout I got :)

[Mango]

Whenever I do situps/crunches I get lower back pain. Doing them on a mat or a ball gives me the same lower back pain.

I can do dips without the pain though. I don't think my form is incorrect.

Is my back just really lame?


http://www.metu.edu.tr/~guney/bb/images/abdominal-muscles.jpg

This is a common issue, you are not alone my friend. First I'm curious if you are just beginning a workout program or have had one going for some time or are involved in any sports?

Now, doing situps or crunches while laying flat on the floor on your back is actually the most ineffective method of activiating the abdominal muscles. Those big Thera-balls are one of the best methods we now know. But your problem is not so much your method as it is a muscular strength discrepency. Your lower back muscle are getting "tired" faster than your abdominals, when this happens, your lumbar spine begins to curve inward, your pelvis twists downward and to compensate all of your lower back muscles (spinea erecuts group and surrounding muscles) tense up and do thier best to keep the spine in a uniform shape. Thier attempts are menacing at best since once form is lost, pain is immenent. This puts a tremendous load on the lumbar spine which is the root of your problem. Can you think of why the spine would be pulled inward like this though? The answer is pretty fascinating and most people don't know this. Our abdominal muscles actually start at the base of our chest (at the sternum) and attach all along the front of our ribcage, and wrap down along the "six pack region" and actually go UNDER our intestines and attach inside our pelvis, at the back!

So you can see, weak back muscles cannot resist this force pulling from the front.

What can you do?

Well first you need to strengthen those lower back muscles. You can do this in a few ways:

First make sure you stretch, it is crucial. Tight hamstrings/glutes/lower back will all put stress on your abdominal region (believe it or not) and will pull on the pelvic bone, causing lower back pain. These are some I do every day:

http://www.drbapuji.com/Images/sp2.jpg
http://www.drbapuji.com/Images/sp1.jpg
http://www.drbapuji.com/Images/sp4.jpg
http://www.drbapuji.com/Images/sp3.jpg

Now, one of the best lower back strengthening excercises is on the trunk extension "machine" if you want to call it.

A simple lower back extension:
http://www.shapeupsolution.com/images/low_back_ext_start_pic.jpg
Ths is your starting position. Make sure the pads are on your upper theigh and your pelvic region feels supported. when coming up, try to keep the normal curve in your spine and make it a 3 to 5 sec count on the way up. Come up slowly and controlled.

http://www.shapeupsolution.com/images/low_back_ext_midpoint_pic.jpg
This is the midpoint! most people think "oh Im done..." Well guess what poopypants, your NOT! You still must maintain posture. Lower yourself BACK down slowly to your starting point. Maintain good form and posture. 3 to 5 sec count back down. After 10 of these, done correctly, you'll feel muscles you didnt know you had in your lower back region. Your glutes (your butt muscles that you sit on all day playing video games eating milanos) will also feel like they are on fire. This is normal. They are stabilizers.

http://www.shapeupsolution.com/images/good_morning_start_pic.jpg
This is the "Good Morning" but what a ghey name, I shall call it the "Standing Weighted Extension" since thats what it is. Again, dont feel like you have to start with any weight. You can start with just a bar since they are typically 45 lbs bars at gyms. Keep knees slightly bent, feet shouldner width apart.

http://www.shapeupsolution.com/images/good_morning_midpoint_pic.jpg
Midpoint again!! Not done sissy. This is where you want to stop. Notice the 45 degree angle his spine is making, if you were to draw a horizontal line at his hip joint. Slow controlled lowering, slow controlled ascent back to standing.

With these two excercises, you could do them every day. I do. Start out doing them every other until you feel comfortable.

Abdominals

The stability balls are the best method for abdominal workouts. This picture illustrates good form on one. Make sure the ball is supporting the lower back, stuck in that little pocket your lower Lordodic Curve to be exact.
http://www.optimumbootcamp.com/Images/Abdominal_Toning_Pic_5.jpg

You want to imagine that your body is a hinge, and the pivot point is right on your sides, as if you were to put your hands on your hips, and bring them up about 6 inches. right there.

There are other excercises to do on that ball for abs, such as:
http://www.deniseaustin.net/gfx/shop/equip/eq_stability_ball_sm.jpg
http://www.fatdog.ca/features/strength/2002/circuitimgs/circuit1.jpg
http://www.karenvoight.com/CHARLES%20BUSH%20PHOTOS/reverse%20curl%20ball%20A72.jpg

Those involve holding the position you see them in, for about 10 seconds, resting, doing it again for sets of 5 to 10. Those are advanced. Don't attempt any of that until about 6 weeks of doing the lower back excercises I outlines. Stick with basic ab workout on the ball, the one I told you about. Then come back to me. ^___^



Hope this helps! Happy workout!



P.S. And you people said I can't make quality posts anymore. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jtrussell7/eek3rofl.gif http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jtrussell7/hsrolley.gif

[Fred]

Excellent Post Mango, I just started my crusade to get buff again this past weekend... abs are definitely the #1 target zone...

---Fred

[Mango]

if u realy wana work out that does your abs and aerobics too run as far as u can up stiars around the block a few times w/e with your abs tighted with your arms over your head. I thought my coach was insane but the first time i tried this i could only run a couple times around the feild b4 i was done


Yeah and your coach should be fired. Running with your hands over your head like that puts intense stress on your spinal cord and throws off the bodies running dynamics. I'd suggest not doing this if your value the fluid filled sacks between your discs in your spine or if you are just wishing for a herniated disc. Also, you can't run as far because *gasp* you are lowering the amount of oxygen your lungs can take in with your arms over your head.


Think about why your abs are feeling tense when you do that. The body is just a system of levers. If you move a weight to the end of the lever "Raise them in the air" the "Force Arm" now became longer. So you must use more force to keep yourself upright, thus, your muscles in your trunk contract.

If he wants to argue this point have him call me. He is setting all of his students up for injury but then again, coaches have little to ZERO anatomy & physiology training. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[FutureMagOwner]

meh ill post here since i dont think we really need a new thread for it...

anyway mango as you may remember i pm'ed you a couple times about a year ago about losing weight, and since then i went from 6' something 225 to today where im 6'2" 185... anyway i am relatively thin now all around, but i still got a bit of a gut and wuv handle and man boobies lol but my arms and my legs and all that are fine (although i suppose my cheeks could stand to thin out a bit as well) so im wondering whats the best route to go about losing that stuff with of course the laziest way possible!

[steveo356]

Yeah you will look like an idoit whcih adds to the fun

[SCpoloRicker]

http://www.metu.edu.tr/~guney/bb/images/abdominal-muscles.jpg

P.S. And you people said I can't make quality posts anymore. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jtrussell7/eek3rofl.gif http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jtrussell7/hsrolley.gif

Mango is spot on with the lower back strength issue. At SC, our strength coaches were nuts about doing "core training" which was all about strengthening the muscles of your trunk and torso. The back exercises he refers to were everyone's weakest exercise. A couple 6 weeks and they'll be up to spec.

Holy Personal Trainer Batman!

/or kinesiologist, or w/e

[Caffiend]

Also, you can't run as far because *gasp* you are lowering the amount of oxygen your lungs can take in with your arms over your head.


Really? I was always told to put my arms over my head after running because it opened up our ribcage and we could breathe easier. This is after running a few miles, we were "distance" runners. And it kept some of the guys from doubling over too :) I never pushed myself too hard, I was lazy :D Excellent post btw.