The end of Triggernomics

[Maghog]

Today was a rather ordinary day, until I got home from work. My wife gave me an exhausted look and told me to sit down. So I did. Here is what she told me.
She received a notice to pick up the package that I had been expecting from AGD, as I have received with many other packages from the U.S. When she went to the customs office they did not like what they saw. They especially didn‘t like the words „might explode“ on the battery pack, and theorized it might even contain a gas of some sort. After questioning my poor wife for two hours, they decided that they wanted to search our house, which my wife consented to.
They confiscated everything!!!
The E-mag I‘ve been working on, two automag bodies, two warp feeds, countless cocker parts, my handheld chrono, my barrels, two regulators, my spare parts kit which has over a thousand parts in it, drop forwards, hoses, and my triggers!
MY FREAKIN‘ TRIGGERS!!!
There more, much more, so much I don‘t even remember it all. It‘s all gone.
What‘s worse, I could be criminally charged for this. I have no gun permit, and no license to own any of this. I could be charged with smuggling firearms, illegal possession of firearms, possession of illegal firearms, altering firearms and who knows what else they can cook up on me if they so choose.
There are a few bright spots. Apparantly they were quite nice about it, even though they searched my whole house, and when they found my free weights, they thought that made me a suspicious character. Huh?!
The huge plus is that I don‘t actually have a functioning gun in the house, or anywhere in this country for that matter. I have no valves for any of the mags I own over here, it‘s just a coincidence. I also don‘t have any air systems, which could have been more trouble.
Now comes the dilemma. They did not (nor would anyone ever) find Mad Cocker Disease. The gun is well hidden, but if I don‘t cough it up now it could mean more issues. I could probably never get it out of the country if I don‘t let them know, but if I do let them know, it could be viewed as a functioning weapon and that is what they need to totally screw me, not to mention the fact that it would be confiscated and possibly destroyed.
As it stands, I am not under arrest. The equipment will be reviewed and evaluated. I will more than likely never see it again. Best case scenario, I get to send it back to America and at least have over 3000$ worth of stuff still in my inventory overseas.
I am not out to blame Germany, and please don‘t make any suggestions of that nature. They do have strict rules regarding paintball, and they play it by the book over here. The thing is, I followed just about all of their rules, except the new one that I wasn‘t aware of. Since April 2003, you are not allowed to simply order something from a paintball company and have it delivered to your house. You can‘t even send paintball parts privately without requesting permission to do so. There is a way to be exempt from firearm ownage, and I was sure that I had understood this and complied. It‘s now for them to determine.
The other rule I didn‘t know was that you‘re not allowed to alter guns in anyway. And grinding them into works of art, regardless, is an altercation. It just so happens that I was having a really good time altering guns.
So this is how my ordinary day has ended. I don‘t know what else to do but share my frustration and I don‘t see much of a silver lining behind this cloud either. I fear this is the end of Triggernomics.
Dan

[Creative Mayhem]

Damn Dan.. I don't know what to say....

That's just crazy. I really hope that things work out for you.

The can take the physical, but they can't mental... remember that when thinking about Triggernomics Dan

LONG LIVE TRIGGERNOMICS!

[yakitori]

you should file charges against the US govt and Customs for exercising bad judgement. darn the stupid patriot act. I wouldnt have consented for anyone to search my home. You should sit your wife down and have a long talk w/ her about letting any govt. worker into your home. this is the kind of democracy we are trying to spread to other parts of the world. *rolleyes*. Talk about an over-reaction by the US customs.

BOOOOOOOOO. :mad:

[LudavicoSoldier]

I'd hate to see you unable to make any more works of art out of PB gear. Would germany consider a straw and a pea a firearm? Hope you get through this! :dance:

[LudavicoSoldier]

you should file charges against the US govt and Customs for exercising bad judgement. darn the stupid patriot act. I wouldnt have consented for anyone to search my home. You should sit your wife down and have a long talk w/ her about letting any govt. worker into your home. this is the kind of democracy we are trying to spread to other parts of the world. *rolleyes*. Talk about an over-reaction by the US customs.

BOOOOOOOOO. :mad:

Not US customs, but German customs, as Dan lives in Germany. Germany has extremely strict laws on gun ownership, and apparently paintball guns are considered firearms over there.

[ClassicMagger]

Hey:

Dan damn man... That is all that I have to say.. I can't think of anything to say about that.

That is really rough. I hope you and your wife are okay and that she isn't too broken up over this I know that it must be hard.

Also, I hope you are alright with all of this. Triggernomics is a great place I own a trigger shoe from Dan and it is beautiful.

I was actually going to order a custom trigger for the newest project.

Hope all goes well for you Dan and Long Live Triggernomics.

-ClassicMagger

[The Frymarker]

OMG :eek:

Dan, that is horrible, your pour wife......I can't even imagine what she went through.

If you ever need to have your stuff stored, it would be in good hands here, just let me know.


I can't even get over that....your triggers, that is just plain ludicris, why could you claim them as artwork instead of firearms???


I'm here for anything you and your family need, as always, tell your wife, I feel so sorry for the torment she went through today.

:(

[shartley]

Well I have to say that I feel very sorry for you. It is terrible when this happens. You truly turned out works of art and I know many folks looked forward to your next project (as each passed to the next).

For those who complain about the US, they should really pay attention to this story. Because as someone who has lived in other countries than the US I can tell folks that this is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to your perceived freedoms as well as what the government can and can not do. The US is by far still the best place to live….. on the entire face of the earth,

Hopefully you can pick back up when/if you move back to the States. And I would advise seeing if there is a appeals process to get back your things or at least have them shipped to someone in the States to hold on to until you get back. Who knows, that may still be an option for you.

Good luck, and again, I am sorry to hear this.

[thecavemankevin]

DO NOT GIVE THEM THE MAD COCKER!!!!

if you are sure they cant find it....don't tell them about it. You should consider dismantalling it down to unrecognizable pieces and store them away from each other. Or possible send them state side (this crap wouldn't have happened over here).

From the sounds of it the Mad cocker is all you have left, don't let them take it!!! This is so horrible man, i just can't even imagine how you must feel.

Don't give up, never surrender, NEVER SURRENDER!!!

[Kevmaster]

dan....we all wish you the best over here. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let me know if there is anything I can do to help ya out with these troubles.

[skife]

hide it better.

get a tupperwear container and bury it out behind your house.

[Maghog]

Thank you all for the support, it means a lot to me. The whole situation is out of my hands for the moment, I just have to wait.
By not consenting to a search, my wife would have just made the problem worse. They would get search warrants if they needed too. By cooperating, it shows we have no secret evil intentions.
This whole situation does suddenly make me realize how much my freedom really means to me. I've never had a problem like this. I've always been a good boy, especially when it came to paintball. It feels so ironic, for years I've been preaching safety and sportsmanlike conduct, and now I'm the danger.

[Fred]

If the Germans know one thing, its how to make any task a beauracratic NIGHTMARE. I know, I went through the process of aquiring a work visa and residency visa for just one summer...

Did that Finnish team ever get their gear back after it was confiscated on their way back from the Millenium event not too far back?

---Fred

[behemoth]

I feel like a no-brained AOer saying this...

That sucks dude...

But thats all that comes to mind.

Sorry bud, good luck

[Stealthgerbil]

Thank you all for the support, it means a lot to me. The whole situation is out of my hands for the moment, I just have to wait.
By not consenting to a search, my wife would have just made the problem worse. They would get search warrants if they needed too. By cooperating, it shows we have no secret evil intentions.
This whole situation does suddenly make me realize how much my freedom really means to me. I've never had a problem like this. I've always been a good boy, especially when it came to paintball. It feels so ironic, for years I've been preaching safety and sportsmanlike conduct, and now I'm the danger.
That really sucks. I dont see why they wouldn't give the stuff back to you, but dont let them find the cocker!!! If anything, just dismantle it and hide it somewhere. I'm guessing you could put it back together. If worse comes to worse, move to america ;)

[Muzikman]

Dan that really sucks, and I really hope you get everything straightened out. Germany is pretty strict when it comes to certain things (this even includes computer parts). My previous job I spent some time in Germay and shipped stuff back and forth a lot and the only other compay that gave me a harder time was Canada.

Dan, I see the delema you are in when it comes to the cocker. You have way too much time into that thing to see it destroyed. Seeing as paintball is not illegal in germany, just regulated tightly is there any way you could give it to someone over there that you trust (perferably a German) and have them declair it or something. Hell, I would even be willing to fly over, take it off your hands and take my chances getting it back into the states and hold on to it for you ;)

[Muzikman]

If worse comes to worse, move to america ;)

Dan is American, the problem is getting it back to America even if he does move. I am pretty sure they would search his stuff pretty well.

[Scott Hudnall]

very sad...that really sux.

[Lumberjack]

That sucks dude.

You should strip the cocker down to it's smallest peices and ship them out a peice at a time. A buddy of mine did that with some real guns. It takes some time but at least you would still have it.

Sorry to hear about the rest of your gear. Are there any legal channels you could go through to get the stuff back if you sent it home?

[Wheelman]

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[tony3]

Why can't you disassemble the mad cocker into smallest pieces as possible and send each piece over to the US to someone, 1 package at a time? It would be really expensive but you wouldn't lose it.

[AGD]

Maghog,

REALLY sorry to hear about your missfortune. Germany has all kinds of issues with looking like gun toting Nazis. The good news is that this type of thing has been going on in Germany for 10 years. There may be a way out of it. Call OPM and ask for Thomas Hiechman (sp?) he has fought a lot of these battles and may have some info to help you. Tell him I sent you.

AGD

[AngelBoy]

Wow.... all i can say. Thats incredible overkill. Ive always loved your work.

Tom, I would PM him that info, he might need it as soon as possible.

[skife]

Why can't you disassemble the mad cocker into smallest pieces as possible and send each piece over to the US to someone, 1 package at a time? It would be really expensive but you wouldn't lose it.

but, it would be cheaper than replaceing the cocker.

[cletus]

Replace it? That this is irreplaceable if you ask me. Dan put so much time into that thing its crazy. I remember reading 3000 man hours or something along those lines.

But its sad they confiscated EVERYTHING. I guess its a good thing that you had no air sources or valves for that matter over there.

Good luck with the battle.

[mobius]

Oh my God... There are no words for this horrible travesty. This is utterly rediculous!

[justjoshin590]

yet another country and reason for never going there!

[AGDlover]

Sue Em!!!!

[Digits]

nuke em!

[Lesta]

Nazis.

[Destructo6]

That's terrible.

But how can they treat an air powered anything as a firearm, since there is no fire involved? Or is it a case that German authorities greatly restrict any object that is capable of launching a projectile?

At any rate, do contact a lawyer and probably the US embassy. I trust they itemized everything they seized...

[LaW]

That's terrible.

But how can they treat an air powered anything as a firearm, since there is no fire involved? Or is it a case that German authorities greatly restrict any object that is capable of launching a projectile?

At any rate, do contact a lawyer and probably the US embassy. I trust they itemized everything they seized...


Well technically a paintball marker fits the definition of a gun which can include firearms but not limited to...

Despite what people think, a paintball marker is a weapon and put in the wrong hands can be dangerous. Maybe not fatal but it can cause serious injury.


As for the situation, It is unfortunate. I hope that everything can be taken care of in the future and the situation will be resolved.

[ScatterPlot]

^^^^^
That Embassy thing sounds like a good idea. What someone else said earlier about the Disease with the giving it to a friend might be a good idea. Just give it to them as a gift, or sell it for some trivial amount. Just make sure your friend will sell it back :D

[Maghog]

They go by the amount of force a projectile carries when fired. In the case of paintball, anything shooting over 214 fps carries enough power to be considered a firearm. Velocity adjustments used to be locked into place here so you couldn't go over. That seems to have stopped, but the 214 limit is enforced at all legal playing fields here.
This is really the biggest reason why I don't play over here. Seriously, set your gun at 214 and play a round. You can actually dodge the balls before they get to you!
Paintball is growing in popularity here, but they watch it carefully. Just last week, five American youths were found guilty of joy riding and shooting eight people. When asked why, they said they were bored.
This stuff happens in the U.S. a lot, and little gets done about it. Over here things like that could have serious repurcussions. A few more incidents like that and paintball could be gone.
They are ruthless when it comes to that, as well as my stuff. They don't care if I've got 15 year old collectors items, or about art work or about my financial loss. They follow the law, and consider it my duty to be up to date on any law changes (such as the mailing thing)
So now they are apparently going to give all this stuff to a weapons expert who will look at twenty different pneumatic cylinders, regulators, three ways, gun housings, springs, o-rings and such to determine whether there is a fully assembled illegal weapon in there.
I have this vision of an e mag with a gen-x regulator screwed in where the valve goes, and some cocker pneumatics stuck inside the battery pack somehow.
I think I'm getting an ulcer.

[felony]

I have this vision of an e mag with a gen-x regulator screwed in where the valve goes, and some cocker pneumatics stuck inside the battery pack somehow.
I think I'm getting an ulcer.

While that is funny to think about, i do agree that you are right on your way to having an ulcer.. lol

I am sure you know everyone appreciates your work and wishes you the best of luck.

[50 cal]

Are you military stationed in Germany? If so, the JAG office can help. Even Provost Marshal's office can get the ball rolling in some fashion.

[Duck Hunt]

MagHog, I'm so sorry to hear about this. I loved your triggers, though never having touched one, and your artistic ability to make a marker a true work of art. Its a shame whenever an artistic can't express himself. I recently aquired a horrible computer virus that almost ended my computer. I have many MANY photos I've taken over the years of family and loved ones and my so called "art" and I couldn't fathom loosing them. I fortunetly recovered and I wish you the best of luck, you'll be in all of our thoughts!!

Sean

[VR4SL]

I think all of you guys in the USA should take this as a lesson- watch out who you vote for. If you dont think the Democrats, Liberals, and Anti-Gun-Nuts in this country wouldnt LOVE to get a Gov't going here like Germany has, you have got another thing coming. If you CARE about your right to bear arms -of ANY type- you had better decide what side of the fence you sit on.

Dont take this as a political jest......

Well, better yet, please do. Damn democrats (Hypocrites), Liberals (socialists), Anti-Gun-Nuts (Just plain morons).

[SpecialBlend2786]

Dan, your work was pure class. I remember staring at your artwork for hours, just following the intricate lines. I'm so sorry about what happened, hopefully it all works out:(

[Maghog]

I don't think it's fair to try to use this thread as a political platform to try and scare people into voting one way or another. There are laws in America just as there are in Germany, obey them and you'll be fine. When it comes to guns, America is the most liberal country in the world, and Germany is very conservative.
I have never owned a firearm in my life, I don't have a problem with anyone having one if they want to, but I just never needed one. Now I'm being seen as a firearm owner, possessing illegal weapons which I've always viewed as sports equipment for the past fifteen years. I always saw a difference between a real gun and a paintgun, the German government sees it differently and is holding me to the letter of the law as they should.
I think this situation should shed light on all laws related to our sport and firearms in general. Whether you are in America, Europe, Asia or Antartica, inform yourself as to your rights and priveleges as well as what kind of restrictions there are so that nothing like this can happen to you....and vote for the person who you feel best represents your own personal views.
Dan

[openboater]

Hang in there, we're praying for you.

Be honest with them. Emphasize the art work.

Hopefully they will work with you too.

[yakitori]

nuke em!

ignorance

[lord1234]

maghog...if you are a US Citizen you should consider contacting the US Embassy/Consulate in germany. They may be able to help you out.

--Lord1234

[Vendetta]

I think you should not call this stuff paintball gear. You should call it what it is, art. These are sculptures and you are an artist. I don't know what kind of protection this might have, but I know that Europe is much more liberal in term of what is art, and protection for artists. See if there are any arts organizations that may be able to help you.

[Muzikman]

Problem is not everything they took is "art".

[hitech]

I'm really sorry to hear that. I hope that the contact Tom gave you can help.

Good luck.... :cheers:

[TDonovan]

Wow... And I though the US firearm restrictions were a pain in the butt.

When will people understand that it's really the law abiding citizens that are hurt by these laws. The bad guys who want guns will get what they want either way.

Ugh... Sorry about your trouble man.

[manike]

Aaarrgghh Dan, I feel for you.

I also know how much of a nightmare it can be in Germany.

Good luck!

[Ov3rmind]

I think all of you guys in the USA should take this as a lesson- watch out who you vote for. If you dont think the Democrats, Liberals, and Anti-Gun-Nuts in this country wouldnt LOVE to get a Gov't going here like Germany has, you have got another thing coming. If you CARE about your right to bear arms -of ANY type- you had better decide what side of the fence you sit on.

Dont take this as a political jest......

Well, better yet, please do. Damn democrats (Hypocrites), Liberals (socialists), Anti-Gun-Nuts (Just plain morons).
Wow, you disgust me. Maghog posts a thread like this, and you try and use it scare people into taking your side of the political spectrum.

I'm really truely sorry to hear this. I never owned any Triggernomics products, but from what I saw, you did some amazing stuff. I can't even imagine how it would feel to have everything taken away in one swoop like that.

[Kodiak]

Nazis.

That is VERY uncalled for, you have NO idea what your saying.............

[Marchborne]

Maghog,

REALLY sorry to hear about your missfortune. Germany has all kinds of issues with looking like gun toting Nazis. The good news is that this type of thing has been going on in Germany for 10 years. There may be a way out of it. Call OPM and ask for Thomas Hiechman (sp?) he has fought a lot of these battles and may have some info to help you. Tell him I sent you.

AGD


Just to add to what TK said: call OPM, find out what advice they may be able to offer (sounds like they've dealt with similar issues before) and GET A LAWYER. You may be getting into more trouble than it's worth to keep the 'cocker. Find out from a lawyer what the issues and penalties are, and then take your next steps. If you need help finding a lawyer, send me a PM. I know a good lawyer from Munich who works here in the US, and he may be able to recommend somebody for you, depending on where you are. Good luck, and hang in there.

[doc_Zox]

I have never owned a firearm in my life

Montgomery County, Maryland Code
This code contains all changes to the Montgomery County Code pursuant to laws effective through May 31, 2004.


Gun or firearm: Any rifle, shotgun, revolver, pistol, air gun, air rifle
or any similar mechanism by whatever name known which is designed to expel a projectile
through a gun barrel by the action of any explosive, gas, compressed air, spring or elastic.

http://www.amlegal.com/montgomery_county_md

yep, spitwad and a straw is a "gun" in Monkey County
"its for the Children"

[skife]

Sorry to rurresect a thread, but did dan ever get his stuff back?
what happend?

[Maghog]

Yes I did, and it's almost done.

[SpitFire1299]

Wow.. a year!? That really sucks.

[BobTheCow]

So, you DID get everything back? Sweet!

Feel like explaining how the rest of the process went? It's great to hear you've got everything again. :)

[snoopay700]

Damn that sucks, is there any way to get the license and then get your stuff back? because if that's an option keep the cocker hidden, try to get the license, then get your stuff back, then if you try to come back to america you'll have the license and you can take all of it with you.

EDIT: Whoops, should've read the second page, sorry.

[Maghog]

I posted this thread a few days after it was resolved.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=155688

I haven't had anything shipped here since then. I wonder what they'll say when I get my Dye barrel.

Always remember to inform yourself when taking paintball equipment across international borders!!!
Dan

[matt-o]

That's terrible.

But how can they treat an air powered anything as a firearm, since there is no fire involved? Or is it a case that German authorities greatly restrict any object that is capable of launching a projectile?

At any rate, do contact a lawyer and probably the US embassy. I trust they itemized everything they seized...
someone told me that they see crossbows as firearms in the us? but they were probably full of crap.

[paint magnet]

If you're shipping paintball stuff internationally, label it as "toy parts" or something along that line. I've never had any problems.

Glad to hear everything worked out though.

[acrosome]

Hi, I'm new here. I found this forum while researching for a possible E-Mag purchase.

Interestingly I had a similar experience with the polizei. When I was enlisted and stationed in Fulda I played regularly with some other soldiers and a few Germans. One day someone called the polizei on us while we were playing in an old quarry (we had permission from the owner) because they thought we were poachers. :tard: The polizei confiscated all our gear. I think this was 1991 or so? Most of us had PMI-3's and it took almost a year (and intervention on our behalf by an officer in our counterintelligence unit) to get our gear back. In the meantime we had to play the Paris Open with rented pumps. We got massacred.

Before this happened I had been very impressed with Germany and the Germans, particularly as regards their cleanliness and organizational skills. Afterward I realized that the flipside of neatness and organization is rigidity and inflexiblity.

You do know why there is no crime in Germany? Because it is against the law.

[Recon by Fire]

Sorry to hear about the misfortune. I could have sworn we took care of that whole Fascist Nazi thing there in Germany but you sure could not tell from this story. They are so worried about having people look like they are Nazis that that the German governemnt ends up acting like them :( And we think our government intereferes in our lives too much...

[Tao]

I read most of the pastings...WHAT AI RIDE!!! I am sorry to hear that you went throught that nightmare but at least it is over.

I have a question though: Why are emags ilegal there? I heard that you cannon have fully automatic piantguns in the UK, but a (stock) emag is semi auto...



I posted this thread a few days after it was resolved.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=155688

I haven't had anything shipped here since then. I wonder what they'll say when I get my Dye barrel.

Always remember to inform yourself when taking paintball equipment across international borders!!!
Dan

[govnamac]

He is in Germany, not England

[Tao]

I know. I was just referring that in many places (like UK) fully auto paintguns are illegal...

[Kyle.Kimber]

Not US customs, but German customs, as Dan lives in Germany. Germany has extremely strict laws on gun ownership, and apparently paintball guns are considered firearms over there.

Ok. This is totally stupid. Germany is allowing robotic tanks with machine guns to patrol the olympics, but you can't have a freakin paintball gun without being called a criminal. Savages. I hope the Germans don't have a vendetta against us, apple pie eatin, beach boy listenin, 67 Mustang loving americans. If you don't get your stuff back, I swear I'll boycot Hagan Das ice cream for at least 6 months. Hope you get through this without getting to screwed over. Thank God for the constitution, at least I'm safe. But there should be laws regarding search and siezure when it comes to internationally shipped property. :( :( :( :(

[SniperSmurf]

Hey Kimber, Häagen-Dazs started in New York City, not Germany... ;)
Maghog, glad to hear everything (mostly) worked out for you.

[Maghog]

Hagan Dass is Danish anyway.
Everything's fine here now.
I should have something for you guys to see soon. :D

[Kyle.Kimber]

ignorance

Its a joke, CHILL......

[Kyle.Kimber]

Hagan Dass is Danish anyway.
Everything's fine here now.
I should have something for you guys to see soon. :D

Oh thank god, now I can eat as much as I want.

Much love, Maghog

[Maghog]

[QUOTE=Kyle.Kimber]Oh thank god, now I can eat as much as I want.

Unless you're a Muslim.

Okay, bad joke. :tard:

[WARPED1]

Hagan Dass is Danish anyway.
Everything's fine here now.
I should have something for you guys to see soon. :D
Hagen Daz ice cream is a made up word.