Best Fighting Style for This Purpose?

[mjs1217]

I'm interested in learning some form of Martial Arts or fighting technique. While I know a little about many different martial arts, I don't know which specializes in what. I am interested in learning about Krav Maga, which is used by the Israeli Military and a lot of law enforcement agencies here (including the CIA, FBI, DEA, etc). However, I think that Krav Maga is more of a "Strike and Escape" type of fighting style. I'm more interested in one that will help me win a fight against an unarmed combatant in any type of situation (if I get jumped, or if I know I'm about to fight and am ready). Please, by all means correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like Krav Maga is basically against weapons, and mostly "anything goes" fighting, ie crotch-kicking and other "dirty" techniques.

Another important issue is that I've heard most forms of Asian martial arts aren't very practical in real-life situations, which I can definitly see. I need something that I can really use to protect myself, should I be forced to fight or get jumped. Whether this be a passive type of thing (using the combatants force against him), or any other type, it doesn't matter.

So, what type of Martial Arts / fighting technique should I learn? It needs to be easy / quick to learn, because I don't have alot of time each day. It also needs to be practical in terms of real-world use. And finally, it should be geared more towards unarmed combatants, rather than armed (I don't think I'll be coming in contact with any guns, thankfully :)). But, any info whatsoever would be helpful...anything about any form of fighting would be great.

Thanks for the help!
-mjs

[Echo419]

I know Tai-Kawn-Do teaches u to reverse alot of moves, like bullys will use some moves on you, and u can use that move and serve them bad with a reverse

Hop-Ki-Do teaches u skill in punching and weaponry use

[mjs1217]

I know Tai-Kawn-Do teaches u to reverse alot of moves, like bullys will use some moves on you, and u can use that move and serve them bad with a reverse

Hop-Ki-Do teaches u skill in punching and weaponry use


Thanks for the help, but most of the time I expect a combatant to just be throwing punches at me, not really any full-nelsons or anything. Most of the fights that I can see myself being dragged into would be against a thuggy-type kid who's trying to prove hes a big man. Also, I'm not very interested in weapons, since that doesn't seem very practical at all...

But please keep the help comin in, everyone.

[WingMan13]

Jeet Kune Do. "Absorb what is useful and reject what is useless"

[nippinout]

Gracie style jui jitsu is very effective.

Get the guy to the ground and pummel his face.

[MantisMag]

a lot of it depends on your teacher. many martial arts instructors tend to teach only how to fight against other martial artists. this is largely due to the fact that they were mostly fighting against each other and even untrained combatants in these areas grew up thinking of this as being the way to fight. so there are no inhibitions against kicking whereas mostly around here people think of fighting with fists and wrestling people to the ground. keep that in mind that so much depends on how your teacher presents it when i talk about the stlyes. most styles will cover everything eventually and some teacher's will compensate and teach a more balanced version of their style.

i'd suggest that if you're looking to be able to defend yourself find an art that is balanced hands and feet. tae kwon do has a tendency to use feet to the exclusion of hands especially at lower levels. karate has a tendency to be based on strength. true they'll teach you to hit harder than someone of equal strength but it's still not much good against a guy who's a lot bigger and stronger. they're also lean more towards striking than throws or locks. most styles of kung fu are pretty good. wushu however is very flowery and you'll find a lot of things you can't use. wing chun has the opposite problem as tae kwon do. they're based mostly on hands. however it is an extremely good style for close in fighting. most animal styles of kung fu are pretty good. vicious though in terms or attempting to hurt the other person. and there's a good possiblity of screwing up and not only losing the fight but looking like a tool. aikido is good for grappling, throwing, and controlling your opponent based on energy. judo is the same but is more about throwing by using leverage and learning to put all your body into a throw. there are obviously many more but no way i'm going through all of them. if you have any questions about a style ask. i probably have some idea of what it looks like and their approach to fighting.

i personally train in seven star praying mantis kung fu. it has a good mix of hands and feet, strikes and grappling but is predominantly defensive in nature depending on your opponent's reactions to string together attacks so it's more useful against another trained fighter. i also do capoeira which is very cool and a lot of fun. it also teaches me to see possiblities that i wouldn't have considered before. i wouldn't use it as my primary method of fighting but i would mix it in to keep my opponent off guard.

[Steelrat]

Look for a style that includes a lot of grappling and ground fighting. 90% of fights end up on the ground, especially when the fight is really on, not that stupid "meet me after school" kind of fighting. Krav Maga is a good, practical kind of fighting. The whole objective of a fight should be to disable your opponent and disengage. I mean, what do you want to do, stand over his body and gloat? And dirty tricks are the best way to fight. "Honorable" fighting is something for competitions, not for the street. If it takes a shot to the groin or a flick to the eye, then so be it.

[MantisMag]

90% of fights end up on the ground, especially when the fight is really on, not that stupid "meet me after school" kind of fighting.
i agree that you should learn grappling and ground fighting but where the hell does that statistic come from? honestly. it's a bunch of smoke blown up your butt by teachers of grappling arts. does anybody really believe that they did a poll? or some kind of study? haha. :rofl:

[Konigballer]

seriously, Mantismag's "seven star praying mantis kung fu" sounds very nice and all, but.......

All I'm saying is the guys that usually win the Ultimate Fighting Championships, and all those other rip offs, are almost always specialized in grappling arts. Its not as fun to watch, but when you see guys like the Gracie's, who practise they're own style of jiu-jistu I believe, go to work...it ain't pretty, but they completely dominate.

I think Muay Thai kickboxing is also well respected as being applicable in the "real world" as well.

well, have fun, break a leg, and if you pick a fight with me on the street......... :shooting: :p

[dsrkd]

I'd recommend a combo of the suggestions made so far. Steelrat, Mantis and Wingman.
Play to your natural strengths. Height, size, strength/power, hand speed, footspeed etc...Look for an intructor that is well versed and not 'sold' on one style. The best instructor that I ever had had a foundation in boxing. He then went on to Muay Thai and Kenpo. His blend turned out to be a pretty effective base for me to build on. Remember that conditioning is crucial. Talk to Mango for suggestions in that arena.

[MantisMag]

ufc is not street fighting. rules favor grappling because striking weakpoints is against the rules. from their official rules:

Fouls:
2. Eye gouging of any kind
6. Groin attacks of any kind
8. Small joint manipulation
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh
13. Grabbing the clavicle
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent
16. Stomping a grounded opponent
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel
22. Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent

now obviously these rules are to prevent debilitating injuries from happening during every single fight but because of them you can't compare ufc to real fighting. not saying brazilian jiu jutsu isn't good. just that you can't determine real fight potential based on a sport.

muay thai is good but it favors people with long limbs. also strategy is to protect the head and groin area while leaving the midsection open. ever watched the kickboxer movies? it's exagerrated but they do train to take hits to the ribs and abdominal area. they also train their shins and forearms to be really tough. definitely an art for tough lanky guys.. "skinny guys fight till they're burger." ;)

[MantisMag]

dsrkd - i have no doubt he's good. that sounds like a good mix of styles. he's got the fists from boxing, kicking knees and elbows from muay thai, and changing levels and asian style punching and kicking from kenpo. i honestly think it's best to train in at least two very different arts but not until you get a good base in one. if you try to assimilate too much at once you won't be good at any of it. each style has its own way of moving, its own way of thinking. if you really want to be good you have to completely immerse yourself so that you can do it without thinking. it's not about how many techniques you know. it's about mastering the techniques that you do know. some people might say otherwise but it's my opinion that you should devote yourself fully to one style until you are fluent in the basics. not to say that you shouldn't shop around but once you find one that you're happy with stick with it for a while before taking on another one.

[aaron_mag]

I've taken Taekwon-do for 20+ years and I've also taken Gracie style Jui Jutsu. I've even attended a seminar taught by a Gracie. His name started with R (they all do) and he was a really nice guy. Here are my thoughts.

First off...do not take any style that is Olympic style Taekwon-do. That is the worst style ever. They wear these big poofy pads and have completely forgotten how to use their hands (as you can see I take the traditional style of Taekwon-do).

Now on to the other stuff. First off...martial arts cannot escape real life. There are those that are athletic and those that are not. Training will help you somewhat, but it isn't like the movies where a 150 pound guy suddenly has the power to beat down a 270 pound guy. I've also boxed and learned the hard way that there is a reason they have weight classes :)

Grappling styles are very good. You need to make sure that the one you do has alot of live sparring. It is a very safe way to train and it requires alot of fitness. Plus...most people don't have that much experience with joint locks. The natural instinct is to do exactly the wrong thing against a grappler (sprawl your hands out to break their fall and let them put in the keylock and such things). So you can learn alot of good moves that are effective with a grappling style. Plus you learn good habits (like hugging your opponent close and not giving them any space to work you over).

I've done traditional striking martial arts for 20 years. Naturally I think they are fine. One of the big problems, however, is that they require alot of athletic ability, strength, and speed. It also takes a long time to be effective with them. The kicks and punches are very effective. Around 10 years ago (in my early 20s) I did full contact kick boxing (where you only wear boxing gloves) to see how effective my kicks would be in a full contact situation. After landing some sidekicks on people they literally would not step in the ring with me. These are young and fit guys who are used to taking punishment. So it was very effective.

BUT that was after 10 years of intensive training. It should not have been surprising that I was able to beat down on guys with 2 to 3 years of kick boxing experience (they usually don't last much longer than that because it is a brutal sport). I know for a fact that guys in Taekwon-do with similar experience would have been hurt by the kickboxing guys (and they thought they were going to beat me up when I first started taking...heh heh heh).

But that is the beauty with traditional style striking arts. It takes years to perfect the techniques, but the training is actually good for your body rather than bad for it (you're not getting the snot beaten out of you in every class).

In your case I'd look for a jui jutsu style class. Safe training and effective techniques that work right away. For those that had a genuine interest in martial arts (beyond defending themselves tomorrow) I'd recommend traditional martial arts including the striking styles. I'm 33 now and I can still do it to stay in shape and have some fun. I wouldn't be doing it if it didn't have alot of benefit. But I'm interested in it...

[Konigballer]

yeah, I never really thought about that. But it makes sense, I guess they wouldnt make as much money if all the UFC's best people were maimed or crippled every fight. :)

But how could you really evaluate the "real world" effectiveness of various fighting styles then? Is there a fighting organization with no rules that allows people to acutally prove wich fighting style is the most effective?

[aaron_mag]

muay thai is good but it favors people with long limbs. also strategy is to protect the head and groin area while leaving the midsection open. ever watched the kickboxer movies? it's exagerrated but they do train to take hits to the ribs and abdominal area. they also train their shins and forearms to be really tough. definitely an art for tough lanky guys.. "skinny guys fight till they're burger." ;)

Dude!!! This is sooo true! That was one of the things I found weird about kick boxing. They would basically let me kick them in the stomach. And since they didn't expect a lead leg kick (all their kicks are reverse leg) they didn't see the side kick coming. And I don't care how strong your stomach is...if a heel digs into your stomach you are going down. I dropped a guy once with one kick. I took a thigh kick (painful as heck) and sidekicked him in the stomach. I felt the air go out of him. It was like knocking over a feather.

I still don't know why more people in the UFC don't use the lead leg side kick!!! I think it is because alot of the best 'traditional' martial artists develop this philosophy of non violence as they train. So much so that they become almost zen like

[aaron_mag]

yeah, I never really thought about that. But it makes sense, I guess they wouldnt make as much money if all the UFC's best people were maimed or crippled every fight. :)

But how could you really evaluate the "real world" effectiveness of various fighting styles then? Is there a fighting organization with no rules that allows people to acutally prove wich fighting style is the most effective?

Screw real world effectiveness. I have take jui jutsu and I wouldn't want to be holding someone in the guard (legs around the other persons waist) on an asphalt street while his friend kicked my head in from behind!!!

Dude!!! There is no way to have a safe controlled environment and have 'street reality'. Street reality is a myth. There is simply no way to 'be safe in all circumstances'. You do the best you can and that is it. Life is a risk. Driving is a risk. Getting mugged with someone with a knife or a gun is a risk you take...you can't escape it.

And let me tell you...some of my martial arts buddies and I tried to take away a plastic knife without getting cut....none of us could do it.

So finally one of the guys (this big black guy who was built tall and stacked with muscle and zero fat) says, "I guess we all know what to do if we see a knife. Hand over your wallet and run like heck!!!"

:D

[vf-xx]

*sigh*

There is no "BEST" art for what you describe.

If you want to be really good at handling whatever is unexpected I suggest you learn at least 2 different styles, if not more. I suggest one stand up and one grappling art. Try a couple of different styles and see which one fits you best.

I personally enjoy Brazilian Jui-Jitsu. It's a great work out, you practice full contact and it fits me personally. I've never gotten in a full out and out fistfight, but I'm fairly confident that I can take down just about any yabo I meet on the street. I honestly don't think that many guys who go out and fight are properly trained. But that's just my opinion.

Mantis Mag, myself, and a number of others had a thread a ways back about different martial arts. http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=53693&highlight=martial+arts

[-Carnifex-]

Muay Thai & BJJ > *

[Steelrat]

i agree that you should learn grappling and ground fighting but where the hell does that statistic come from? honestly. it's a bunch of smoke blown up your butt by teachers of grappling arts. does anybody really believe that they did a poll? or some kind of study? haha. :rofl:

Talk to some police officers about the fights they get in to. AT LEAST 90% end up on the ground. And let me tell you, these are FIGHTS. An unskilled opponent is not going to let you get in your kicks and punches, they are going to get in close to even things up.

[tropical_fishy]

yay for brazilian jiu jitsu! i have a black belt in kenpo but i think bjj is so much more useful. :)

[SpecialBlend2786]

yay for brazilian jiu jitsu! i have a black belt in kenpo but i think bjj is so much more useful. :)

she kicks my butt all the time. :cry:

[MantisMag]

vf-xx yeah we had a couple good convos a while back. i just did a search. it's funny how many conversations about joe eigo i've ended. :p

here's a link to one where we do more talking.
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33171&page=2&pp=30

[LeatherPants]

In a way it's not the style it's where you take it. A black belt from one Karate Dojo is NOT the same as a black belt from another.

Lots of good points were brought up in here.

Tae Kwon Do even if Olympic style sparring is good because you get more endurance. I've been taking it for the hell of it and I do agree with Aaron_Mag that it tends to make you forget about your hands.

Jiu Jitsu is also good but more of a one on one fight. You will get the guy to the ground as his friends kick the crap out of you at the same time.

Muhy Thai is basically pain tolerance. To be good you bascally have to kill your nerve endings. Not saying it's a bad style look how many MT guys win K-1. Break someone's leg you win the fight.

I came from a Karate background and there are alot of things that I wish I knew from other styles.

If you can find a place that teaches different styles that would be the best. Even American Boxing is great for street fights.

Bottom line is make sure the place you take from does alot of sparring. Theory and doing is too different things. You have to think fast in a fight. No matter how much you have practiced you have to fight so you know what works and what your body does best.

[RevBrown]

I would go around and talk to instructors in your area. See what there philosophy is.
Again go with your body style. If your a shorter broader guy like I am your not going to be alot comfortable jumping around and tumbling. Go with a style that will adapt to your personal strengths. My kenpo instructor really let me build my strengths and it seems to be pretty all around (I am only a green belt)
Also I would make sure that the instructor allows some sparring. There is no real better teacher than experience. Since it is pretty unwise to go out and start trying to trash bozo's this will be a fair substitute.
This may not be right for you and I only bring it up because it's my only real martial arts experience.

Any teacher worth their weight in salt will teach you to have the confidence to not need your abilities.

[stondroopy]

crane kick :D i used to box for awhile and that usually was enough.I'd learn a lil wrestling or grapling,find something that focus on using pressure points.
oh ya i forgot about the ancient style of brick throwing :D

[Lohman446]

Jeet Kun Do as mentioned earlier is theoretically useful, its base premise of attacking down a centerline of the opponents body and protecting yours is a good base theory - actually borrowed from Wing Chun.

I would find something like the United Karate System or Kenpo. Combination styles they have in general taken the most effective things from other styles and dropped them into theirs. However... I have practiced the United system for some time - and my most effective method of dealing with getting jumped is my .45. Basically I have taken from the system those moves that distance me... and gun retention techniques as what are most useful in street situations.

[Willystyle21]

I agree with Wingmanand Lohman, besides the style was brought into the light by Bruce Lee. What else would you ever need. Good luck finding a Black Belt to teach you though.

Or you could go through life with a small arsenal tucked in your shorts....................

[Clare]

Definitely Muay Thai. Aside from Capoeira, I've also practiced Tae Kwon Do (my least favorite-left after I got my black belt), Kendo, and Muay Thai. Sure, my shins looked like hell but it was so much fun. I wish I had the time and money to do all of it but paintball has pretty much taken over.

[Yudanja]

Been in martial arts for a long time, 20 years or so. from 5 years old and up.

1 Thing I have picked up...martial arts are like paintball guns. Everyone has an opinion on one and all the opinions are different.

The other thing is, Rank is nothing. The color of your belt means bupkis. Dont get caught up in it, just absorb and learn.

I would suggest a school where they teach multiple arts, they have a few places that i know of that teach kick boxing, ground grappling, karate, taekwondo and aikido.

Cross train. I have taken/been introduced to a ton of arts. I started in Taekwondo from an early age, its ok if you dont have a olypmic style coach, but favors legs. You need to be limber, which is a plus cause you gain limberness.

My next art I was introduced to was Combat Hapkido. I love CBHK. I hate most other "combat (insert art here)". CBHK is hapkido with the frills removed and some other stuff thrown in. Teaches you a little about everything. Knife disarming was mentioned here. Its not about "not getting cut at all", its about defending yourself that you dont get stabbed in the chest or have a crucial area sliced, defend with the top of your arm not the bottom, so your wrist doesn't get cut.. CBHK works a lot with other arts/styles and gains great information.

I am now 6 months into BJJ (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu). All this time in MA, these white belts can put the hurt on me, and quick. But as people mentioned before, you take someone down and gain mount, but he has 3 buddies....ouch. Best one on one. Also, GREAT rape defense. A lot of fghts get to the ground, you need to gain good position and GET UP if there are friends involved.

OK, in summary, cross train. Dont get stuck in 1 style saying they are the best hands down, its not true. Oh, and be aware of legality. Ground and puound is not a viable civil suit defense. If you take someone down with a wrist lock, generally you are not legally covered if you start kicking him in the face, or stomping on his chest. Be aware of that, if you are being taught that, check laws in your are, it may not be the right thing to learn.

PS.
Most Krav Maga is the stink. Stay away in my opinion. If you find a good intructor that teaches it correctly, it is GREAT. If you find yourself walking into golds gym to watch a class, or the sign says "Krav Maga/Pilates"....its a work out nothing more.

[Cougar]

I agree with Wingmanand Lohman, besides the style was brought into the light by Bruce Lee. What else would you ever need. Good luck finding a Black Belt to teach you though.

Or you could go through life with a small arsenal tucked in your shorts....................
There are no "Black Belts" in Jeet Kune Do.

If I were you, I'd stay away from it. It's hard to learn on your own, and your unlikly to find someone local that is at an instructor level. You can buy the lesson's on tape, but it's just too hard without someone to help refine your skills.

[mjs1217]

a lot of it depends on your teacher. many martial arts instructors tend to teach only how to fight against other martial artists. this is largely due to the fact that they were mostly fighting against each other and even untrained combatants in these areas grew up thinking of this as being the way to fight. so there are no inhibitions against kicking whereas mostly around here people think of fighting with fists and wrestling people to the ground. keep that in mind that so much depends on how your teacher presents it when i talk about the stlyes. most styles will cover everything eventually and some teacher's will compensate and teach a more balanced version of their style.

i'd suggest that if you're looking to be able to defend yourself find an art that is balanced hands and feet. tae kwon do has a tendency to use feet to the exclusion of hands especially at lower levels. karate has a tendency to be based on strength. true they'll teach you to hit harder than someone of equal strength but it's still not much good against a guy who's a lot bigger and stronger. they're also lean more towards striking than throws or locks. most styles of kung fu are pretty good. wushu however is very flowery and you'll find a lot of things you can't use. wing chun has the opposite problem as tae kwon do. they're based mostly on hands. however it is an extremely good style for close in fighting. most animal styles of kung fu are pretty good. vicious though in terms or attempting to hurt the other person. and there's a good possiblity of screwing up and not only losing the fight but looking like a tool. aikido is good for grappling, throwing, and controlling your opponent based on energy. judo is the same but is more about throwing by using leverage and learning to put all your body into a throw. there are obviously many more but no way i'm going through all of them. if you have any questions about a style ask. i probably have some idea of what it looks like and their approach to fighting.

i personally train in seven star praying mantis kung fu. it has a good mix of hands and feet, strikes and grappling but is predominantly defensive in nature depending on your opponent's reactions to string together attacks so it's more useful against another trained fighter. i also do capoeira which is very cool and a lot of fun. it also teaches me to see possiblities that i wouldn't have considered before. i wouldn't use it as my primary method of fighting but i would mix it in to keep my opponent off guard.


Wow...I forgot just how many styles there are...

I would say that I'd probly do best fighting with my hands / arms. I doubt I can throw a high kick, so capoeira is definitly out :p. And I'd prefer something that can make me capable of defending myself very well within a few months of training, if even. Not to say that I don't want to keep training after that, but I'm not sure if my schedule will allow it even for those first few months :(.



And dirty tricks are the best way to fight. "Honorable" fighting is something for competitions, not for the street. If it takes a shot to the groin or a flick to the eye, then so be it.

At this age, if someone wins a fight through dirty ways, than the person who lost won't shutup about wanting a rematch. Eventually, they'll just get a huge group to jump you at once to get back. Even if I would be prepared for it, thats still something that I'd like to avoid :)



dsrkd - i have no doubt he's good. that sounds like a good mix of styles. he's got the fists from boxing, kicking knees and elbows from muay thai, and changing levels and asian style punching and kicking from kenpo. i honestly think it's best to train in at least two very different arts but not until you get a good base in one. if you try to assimilate too much at once you won't be good at any of it. each style has its own way of moving, its own way of thinking. if you really want to be good you have to completely immerse yourself so that you can do it without thinking. it's not about how many techniques you know. it's about mastering the techniques that you do know. some people might say otherwise but it's my opinion that you should devote yourself fully to one style until you are fluent in the basics. not to say that you shouldn't shop around but once you find one that you're happy with stick with it for a while before taking on another one.

Completely agree....that's what I plan on doing, but I want that first form to give me the skills required, should I get into a fight, to win.



*sigh*

There is no "BEST" art for what you describe.

If you want to be really good at handling whatever is unexpected I suggest you learn at least 2 different styles, if not more. I suggest one stand up and one grappling art. Try a couple of different styles and see which one fits you best.

I personally enjoy Brazilian Jui-Jitsu. It's a great work out, you practice full contact and it fits me personally. I've never gotten in a full out and out fistfight, but I'm fairly confident that I can take down just about any yabo I meet on the street. I honestly don't think that many guys who go out and fight are properly trained. But that's just my opinion.

Mantis Mag, myself, and a number of others had a thread a ways back about different martial arts. http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=53693&highlight=martial+arts


Sorry, I should have phrased it better. I'm completely willing to spend a lot of time learning different martial arts, but before that, I want to get good at one as my base. So, to rephrase it, what is a good base form that would help me protect myself in a street fight? I want to know that I can takedown the majority of people who aren't trained, even using only my base fighting style. But I'm not very interested in participating in contests, so being able to use the style in an actual fight is a key factor and very important.



Talk to some police officers about the fights they get in to. AT LEAST 90% end up on the ground. And let me tell you, these are FIGHTS. An unskilled opponent is not going to let you get in your kicks and punches, they are going to get in close to even things up.

I realize that they will try and get in close, but that's what I mean by real-world practicality :).


crane kick :D i used to box for awhile and that usually was enough.I'd learn a lil wrestling or grapling,find something that focus on using pressure points.
oh ya i forgot about the ancient style of brick throwing :D


LMAO at the ancient art of brick throwing....
Also, Krav Maga has a fairly big focus on pressure points I think.


Also, I just wanna add that for me, there is a little more emphasis on just getting someone down no matter how they come at you. If there is a form of martial arts that will let me knock someone to the ground quickly, no metter how they come at me, than what is it??


Thanks for all the help, but pelase keep it comin! I didn't expect to get so many replies in less than a day, heh.

[MantisMag]

well any suggestion would only be a guess. without knowing you and what you're physically capable of it's hard to pick a style. also like i said before a lot is dependant on the teacher and how he/she presents their art. so i suggest you take what you've learned here and go see what's available. go visit some schools. talk to the teachers. see if they'll let you participate in a class or two. most good schools will let you try out the class for free. don't let them pressure you into anything right away. talk to them a little bit. have them describe the style and their approach to combat. talk about how the class is run. observe the other students. ask how long some of the students have been training. observe them and see if they seem to be learning from this teacher.

in the end you're the only one who can really tell if a style is for you and you'll never know until you try it out. even then you can't really tell if it's the style or the teacher. i get along fine with my sifu but some of his peers i can't stand. the way they teach makes no sense to me whatsoever. the only thing you can do is to go into each school with an open mind. if you're lucky you'll find a style and teacher that just click with you. otherwise either keep looking or work through it in spite of the limitations. for example my sifu isn't as into the internal aspects of the art as i would like. he knows his techniques though so i stay with him and learn what i can from him. sometimes you can't find the perfect fit but you can still learn from them so you deal with whatever lackings you may perceive.

[Miscue]

<img src="http://store2.yimg.com/I/chinesemall-com_1788_49849220">

[Mag_SEAL-6]

Muay Thai. a Thai type of fighting. uses a lot of elbows and knees. mucho damage. awesome.

[brianlojeck]

this is just my opinion, take it for what it's worth. I've got several years experience in martial arts, having studied Muay Thai, Aikido, FMA (a blend of many filipino arts), many of these under Kru/Sifu/Guru Dan Inosanto or his direct students (southern california is a bit of a haven for bruce lee's progeny, good place to study)

90% of being a good fighter is being in shape. the normal person is exhausted 2 minutes into a fight, even if they jog a lot. the only reason nobody notices is because both people are tired at the same time. if you have more endurance, you'll look like a martial arts master. Even Kru Ajarn Chai (something of a famous trainer in american Muay Thai circles) admits that the knowledge to be a MT fighter only takes a few months. the rest is just condtioning.

weapon arts take a LONG time to learn well. I've studied for years, and I still would not tangle with a knife-weilding opponent unless I had no other choice, even if I were similarly armed.

Krav maga, if properly taught, is pretty good. If you aren't fighting to cause as much damage to your opponent as quickly as possible, then why are you fighting?

Aikido teaches you how to avoid getting into a bad fight, which is perhaps the most useful skill of all.

Muay Thai can teach you to be a good standup fighter, but it is not strong against weapons because a great percentage of the "defense" in this art is "take the hit and kick him as hard as you can while he's busy hitting you". to be good at MT means a lifetime of situps and dedication and bad shins and knee problems.

grappling is good, as long as the guy doesn't have a friend with a lead pipe behind you.

Cross-training is the way to go, but most of that training should be physical, not mental. time on the heavy bag is worth a lot more then time in Trapping classes.

don't overlook simple American style boxing either. pretty simple, great emphasis on conditioing, and teaches a great deal about hitting and not getting hit with a minimum of psycho-babble.

and in my opinion, Jeet Kune Do is not a martial art that can be studied. it is the name Bruce Lee (this is my opinion, completely unsupported by much of the martial arts industry) gave to teh state he reached after studying all kinds of arts for his entire life. The way Sifu Lee did JKD would be vastly different from the way I would do JKD, because I outweigh him by about 100 lbs, and am about a foot taller (maybe more). JKD is not something to "learn", it's something to figure out on your own. it's cross-training. There are places that teach it, but they are for the most part just teaching various kung fu.

[White_Noise]

i would suggest jeet kune do, becasue of the flexibility of the techniques involved, and the ability to adapt to any situation. my dad has Bruce Lee's book Tao of Jeet Kune Do, it is a great book, and really is helpful in understanding the techniques. jeet kune do is the closest you can get to actually fighting like bruce lee(lee abondoned his own technique in favor of having no technique. he used the movies he was in inorder to express the fact that doing things according to a certain style leads to repetition, and therefore predictability.

jeet kune do is by far the most offensive martial art. the major blocks in jeet kune do arent actually blocks, but are attacks used to counter an opponents. jeet kune do will allow you to fight anyway you like, the only problem is finding a teacher, so odds are youll have to teach yourself. my dad gets lessons from a friend of his who has been studying martial arts since he was a kid and knows lots of different forms. he then teaches me some of the techniques learned, but i also have taught myself alot of them.

[Lohman446]

If your in a serious fight (not some school yard shuffle) where you are attacked there is one base rule of unarmed combat: ARM YOURSELF :D

[Echo-Newb]

I'd have to say that one of the best fighting styles out in the whole thing right now has to be Hapkido. That or Jeet Kun Do, which was made by Bruce Lee.


Hapkido- It means the art of bone breaking. So if you just think about it, using this style is most likely going to equal out a ton of pain upon your opponent. Usually using this style will end a fight quickly.

Jeet Kun Do- Made by the legendary Bruce Lee in the prime of his life. He had combined Karate, Hapkido and another style (I forget) to make this. So in truth it's a splurge, which ended in a great mix. This fighting style is truly one of the newest and has truly defeated some of hte older styles. It's just amazing. If you ever watch Bruce Lee's biography you'll see that he was amazing in what he did. The guy was a beast if you ever fought him.

[oldsoldier]

hagana. We learned it in Cuba, VERY effective. Good luck finding an instructor though. Only 7 liscenced in the US...all military.


Dont get caught up in hype though. Take what you can from each form you study...and, make SURE you are in good cardio shape. I was once told that if you fight longer than a minute, you're gonna lose.

[WicKeD_WaYz]

ive been training martial arts pretty much my whole life and have been in countless amount of street fights. For the most part, street fighting is the only way to get better at street fighting.

Most martial arts will compliment your street fighting ability but its TOTALLY different when your on the street one on one. Then its TOTALLY different again when your getting jumped by more than one guy.

But since you asked...if your a big, long limbed guy, like myself, I would focus a lot of Muy Thai kickboxing. That style really teaches you how to throw a knockout punch. Kicking is less effective in a street fight untill you are VERY GOOD AT IT.

A second style that will be important in almost every fight ive seen or been in is ground fighting. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is most likely the route you wanna go here. But one of the toughest fights ive ever fought was when I fought a wrestler. It really comes down to if you can get the guy in a position to hit him in the face a lot. Your not gunna make someone tap out in a street fight, well most of the time your not.

I dont find kung foo very effective for me in street fighting, especially Mantis kung foo. It sorta teaches small guys to use the other guys weight against him.

So if your really only trying to get better at street fighting...theres places that will teach a combination of grappling and kickboxing. Dont forget that just learning martial arts can be fun too even if you never need it in a real life situation. Im fluent in Muy Thai, Gracie Jiu Jitsu, and knife fighting, but I also dab into every other type of martial arts I can find just to learn it and its tons of fun.

O yea and that brings up getting jumped by more than one guy. Most likely martial arts wont help you so much if theres 4, 5, o r 6 guys. This is where weapons fighting comes in handy. If your a trained knife fighter you can easily handle that many attackers assuming they arent trained to fight people with knives ;) . And I know you said you didnt wanna train with weapons but its really a lot of fun you should take a class or 2 to see how you like it. Most people get wierded out by the thought of stabbing someone but theres lots more weapons you can train with than just knives. Also nobody ever said you have to stab anybody most martial arts are just for fun and you'll never use it in real life unless you are stupid like me and put yourself in those situations on a weekly basis.

But if I were you I would just pick a style that fits your needs and what looks interesting. You basically just made a thread and asked "whats the best paintball gun for tournament play?" Your going to get a hundred different responses and opinions. It all comes down to what you think would be fun for you and fit your body type/ preferred fighting style.

[WicKeD_WaYz]

Dont get caught up in hype though. Take what you can from each form you study...and, make SURE you are in good cardio shape. I was once told that if you fight longer than a minute, you're gonna lose.


haha well if that was true, then wouldnt both guys loose, because your both still fighting...

But really, you make a good point. The guy who is in better shape has a HUGE advantage. Fights are the most tiring thing on the planet.

[brianlojeck]

In Aikido we had a term that has suddenly escaped me (my Sensei would not be happy)... it'll come to me...

anyway, it was a term meaning the "proper distance" at which to be in order to do Aikido. Essentially it's just far enough away that you and your opponent can just touch fingertips. at this range you CAN'T hit each other, and the aggressor must step forwards. when he does, you can Aikido him.

Me, being a new student, asked Sensei "What happens if he won't step forward? How do you win then?"

Sensei tells me: "If he won't step forward, you've already won."

That's why everyone should study Aikido. ;-)

[WicKeD_WaYz]

In Aikido we had a term that has suddenly escaped me (my Sensei would not be happy)... it'll come to me...

anyway, it was a term meaning the "proper distance" at which to be in order to do Aikido. Essentially it's just far enough away that you and your opponent can just touch fingertips. at this range you CAN'T hit each other, and the aggressor must step forwards. when he does, you can Aikido him.

Me, being a new student, asked Sensei "What happens if he won't step forward? How do you win then?"

Sensei tells me: "If he won't step forward, you've already won."

That's why everyone should study Aikido. ;-)


what happens if your first aikido move fails and hes on top of you. haha thats a good concept and all but ide have a backup plan.



EDIT: I HAVE THE PERFECT SOLUTION FOR YOU AND IT WAS LAYING RIGHT NEXT TO MY KEYBOARD ALL ALONG. I GIVE YOU THE PERFECT WAY TO IMPROVE YOUR STREET FIGHTING.
:clap:

[WicKeD_WaYz]

on second thought the way things are going around here lately I really hope I didnt just get banned for promoting violence or something.

ah well what can you do...

[Yudanja]

Brass knucles, Perfect way to go to jail too.

You need to always remember that defending yourself does not mean putting the guy in the hospital or morgue. If you use a knife and he wasn't armed, or he punched you and you shoot him, you can land yourself in hot water very quickly.

The organization I am in had a bad incident with a student going too far. He learned some knife defense/attacks and started carrying a knife. A bodybuilder started pestering his wife, guy steps in and the body builder pushes him around. He ended up slicing that guy within a hair of his life. I believe he went to jail for a few years and had legal fees of 25K or more.

Do not be naive and think that just because he has attacked you, you have the right to take his life or maime him. You have the right to defend yourself and that is all. If he steps up to the next level and you are afraid for your life, then do what you have to do. Remember that phase too, if he pulls a knife on you and you have to defensively shoot him, you were afraid for your life, you weren't thinking (read: telling police) that he deserved it.

Anyway, I think its everyone right to defend themselves, to death if it so has to be, but remember the legal system and that your actions have consequences.

[Lohman446]

In Michigan should I draw my gun and shoot someone, or for that matter even draw my gun I better learn the words and hope a jury beleives them "I was in fear for my safety or the safety of others". You also have to be in a situation where a "reasonable" person, whatever that is, would have felt the same/ And there is a lot of truth to the idea that I will get in a lot less trouble for shooting someone then beating them badly. Stupid laws. My liability coverage will then settle with the attackers family for $130K as cheaper than the risks of defending me (they actually already have the number figured out).

[brianlojeck]

what happens if your first aikido move fails and hes on top of you. haha thats a good concept and all but ide have a backup plan.

in a similar vein, what happens if your gun jams, or you drop your knife, or your brass knucles get caught on the seam of your pocket, and don't come out when you need them?

If your karate-block doesn't, if the ground is too slippery for a good thai-kick, if you just drank a 44oz big gulp and the guy gets a lucky hit on your gut?

You should always have a backup plan, regardless of what style or defense you use.

[Hasty8]

Here is the list of forms I have taken and their benefits.

Jeet Kune Do - very open style if taught by the correct instructor. Seen as the culmination of all prior existing forms. originated by Bruce Lee.

Aikido - wholly non-offensive form that uses opponents weight and momentum against them along with various joint locks and pressure points.

Kenpo - The exact opposite of Aikido. Lots of fast, short strikes with fists to the face, neck, chest and arms. When done properly this is a blindingly painful and fast form. Some kicks but not many.

Kung Fu Wu Su- originated by Huang Ti, the Yellow Emperor, more than 4,000 years ago and has been perpetuated by practioners in the Wu Dan, Kun Dun, Qu'an Lon, and Yellow Mountain regions, the O'Mei Mountain Monastery and the renowned warrior-monks of the Shaolin Temple for centuries.

This was my first form and forms the basis of my knowledge. IT is a very nice mix of hand-to-hand and weapons; kicks, punches, strikes, defense and offense. A very solid originating platform from which to begine and I heartily recommend that you begin here.

If you are ever in NY I recommend you vist this school. http://www.kungfu-wusu.com/cmp/schedule.html

I am now taking Krav Maga and yes, it is very much considered a "dirty fighting" form but then again, there is no such thing as a fair fight. It is a VERY GOOD street fighting form as it teaches you defense against various weapons (firearms, knives and clubs) as well as dealing with multiple antagonists.

Whatever you choose it is important to go beyond the lessons taught and adjust the form to your body. I'm a rather large guy and cannot do much of the aerial kicks and what not but I have very strong legs so I rely on just a few sweeps and kicks and take the majority of my from in the way of punches, chops, strikes and joint locks.

[Hasty8]

In Aikido we had a term that has suddenly escaped me (my Sensei would not be happy)... it'll come to me...

anyway, it was a term meaning the "proper distance" at which to be in order to do Aikido. Essentially it's just far enough away that you and your opponent can just touch fingertips. at this range you CAN'T hit each other, and the aggressor must step forwards. when he does, you can Aikido him.

Me, being a new student, asked Sensei "What happens if he won't step forward? How do you win then?"

Sensei tells me: "If he won't step forward, you've already won."

That's why everyone should study Aikido. ;-)

Ma ai which literally translates into "harmony of space". This is the fundamental basis of aikido and is key to it's many moves.

And in response to Wicked, that is very unlikley unless you are attacked the very first night you leave the dojo. With just a few hours practice the first few moves are easily taught and almost impossible to forget. Also, since you are dealing with your opponents body weight and momentum even a goof can lead to a win.

[personman]

I used to take Aikido. I would say it's worth taking, for exercise if not anything else :)
It's probably what you're looking for.

[xXHavokXx]

I've done kenpo, some jiu-jitsu, Draka (sanshou) kickboxing and high school wrestling. What I've noticed what works the best is actually wrestling, 90% percent of the time you end up on the ground or locked up. Being able to control him on the floor is key.

Punches and kicks are great but you had better be able to take it because 2 guys standing is going to tear you apart.

JKD - Is nice only if you have a good teacher other wise stick to a blacned kung fu
Caporeia from what ive seen needs alot of room and you have to be able to get free of him.
Tae Kwon Do - I took it for a little while and I think we were training to beat up pieces of wood being held by people.

I think the best all around is Kickboxing/with a shootfighting combo. Both are meant to be used on someone.


Personally I think Krav Maga and Aikido has the right idea, engage, disable and get the hell out.

[Automaggin2]

Well, I took Tae Kwon Do for 7 years, or until i was 12 or 13. I reached my second degree but couldnt go any further until I was 18, so I quit.

I want to learn Gracie Ju Jitsu, that is what you need to use in a street fight :clap:

[nippinout]

I suggest the Weaver Stance. :ninja:

http://www.hssinternational.com/Weaver%20Stance.jpg

[Lohman446]

It really depends if its a "serious" fight or some school yard thing. I still think that in a serious fight against multiple attackers where there is no retreat a gun is a wonderful thing to have.

Wrestling is a great thing, but against multiples your going to have a problem - if it comes down to multiples you almost need a style with strong, sudden movements - Kenpo for instance. With multiple opponents you need quick movements capable of incapacitating an opponent so that you can concentrate on others.

Remember this against multiple opponents - your likely going to loose. I was in a situation once that was going to rapdily deteriorate into several people vs. me. I reminded them that I knew I was going to loose, but I was not going to be the only one riding in the ambulance :) . When they realized that I would pick out one of them to do damage to and concentrate on him it took the fun out of it for them and we all went on our way. Trick is, avoid the fight if at all possible, you are not going to win, even if you "win" you will have issues to deal with.

[moed59]

is all MMA mixed, stand up Thia trust me leg kicks hurt and when your opp. is thinking about that you kick him right in the head. shin bone is like a bat. or you can take him down(ground and pound ) but i prefer stand up, very powerfull

[Automaggot68]

Thanks for the help, but most of the time I expect a combatant to just be throwing punches at me, not really any full-nelsons or anything. Most of the fights that I can see myself being dragged into would be against a thuggy-type kid who's trying to prove hes a big man. Also, I'm not very interested in weapons, since that doesn't seem very practical at all...

But please keep the help comin in, everyone.

Penkak Silat, all the way.
EVERYTHING is used as a weapon.

While I dont know anything else about that form, I studied in a few forms of AiKido, and Nisei goju Ryu. My Father used to teach the MArines down in MCRD Tai Kown do, as well.
Be Advised:: Anyone who tells you they known Ninjitsu, or anything at all pertaining to be ninja training is a damned Liar.
That last known 'Ninja Master' died in the mid Seventies,with no known disciples.

[Steelrat]

I suggest the Weaver Stance. :ninja:

http://www.hssinternational.com/Weaver%20Stance.jpg

Except that in most shootings, even people who train with the weaver naturally revert to the isosceles. Doah!

I say Krav Maga, Some form of grappling style, or regular American boxing. When the fight is on, the fight is ON. Disable your opponent and disengage.

[luke]

Your best bet is to learn freestyle fighting aka mixed martial arts or MMA, which incorporates everything that works, the rest is discarded. Wrestling, Striking, Submission (choking, arm bars, leg locks, etc. etc. etc.)

These freestyle fighting schools are becoming more and more popular across the US.

In my opinion traditional Martial Arts will only serve you well if you’re fighting against someone with the same style, or against someone that does not know how to fight. A good “street” fighter can generally overcome a traditional martial arts fighter.

I’m not saying that there is nothing to be gained by learning these different fighting styles, but freestyle is becoming very refined art in the past 10 years.

If there ever WAS a fighting style that could hold to its traditional form against ANY fighting style I would say it was Brazilian Jiu Jitsu......

[Automaggot68]

Your best bet is to learn freestyle fighting aka mixed martial arts or MMA, which incorporates everything that works, the rest is discarded. Wrestling, Striking, Submission (choking, arm bars, leg locks, etc. etc. etc.)

These freestyle fighting schools are becoming more and more popular across the US.

In my opinion traditional Martial Arts will only serve you well if you’re fighting against someone with the same style, or against someone that does not know how to fight. A good “street” fighter can generally overcome a traditional martial arts fighter.

I’m not saying that there is nothing to be gained by learning these different fighting styles, but freestyle is becoming very refined art in the past 10 years.

If there ever WAS a fighting style that could hold to its traditional form against ANY fighting style I would say it was Brazilian Jiu Jitsu......


I'd have to agree with Luke on this one.

A while back, some guy took Brazillian Jui Jitsu, and modified the hell out of it. He invited experts of several different martial arts, and challenged them.
The jist of each fight was this.
The guy brought each 'master' to the ground, and just PUMMELED them. It was some of the dirtiest fighting i've ever heard of. He was also never beat as far as I know.

[Lohman446]

Its the advantage of any blended style - its why Kenpo is so effective. The "newest" styles are often just a blend of older styles, keep the best and discard whatever you don't need. and your right, in a real life fight these blended styles, in all but a few cases, are going to destroy the "traditional" styles simply because they are more versatile.

[SpecialBlend2786]

I'd have to agree with Luke on this one.

A while back, some guy took Brazillian Jui Jitsu, and modified the hell out of it. He invited experts of several different martial arts, and challenged them.
The jist of each fight was this.
The guy brought each 'master' to the ground, and just PUMMELED them. It was some of the dirtiest fighting i've ever heard of. He was also never beat as far as I know.


yeah, dude, ju jitsu is crazy....

my gf and i kinda spar (more like play fight). The minute we start she drops to the ground and then its all over for me...

if i could keep her up i'd have a fighting chance....then again i box and i dont really wanna hit my gf :tard:

[luke]

That's the best thing about Brazilian Jui Jitsu, it's not about power, strength, or size. It's about winning/survival via conserving energy, letting you opponent wear himself down or waiting for him to make a mistake. Basically you ride your opponent, not trying to overpower or dominate him, just wear down until you have the opportunity to choke him out or take advantage of some kind of lock that would break a bone or submit him.

For a smaller or weaker guy, this style works well because if you were overpowered and taken down, the bigger and stronger guy on top, you on your back HE is at the disadvantage. This is where you take care of business.

Freestyle or MMA still has the advantage over BJJ because it also incorporates BJJ along with wrestling, and striking etc…. :cool: