Help needed in final Decision. Matrix or Viking

[m20power]

Howdy folks,
I am in the process of selling all of my old stuff and Ive realized that a bunch of cheap guns when sold equal a big pot of money.
I am about to sell my angel LCD and I wanted to get something with...
Eyes
Efficient
accurate
I know accuracy is mostly barrel and paint so I guess I will say consistant.
Both are fast and accurate. The viking is more efficient but the matrix can me made the same with an evolve bolt.
My work with a viking is that its a rare gun and not being able to get replacement parts.

Besides a DM3 with eyes, I was also considering a gen E matrix without eyes and then getting eyes added from the matrix center. Does that make sense or does the DM3 have much better parts than the gen E.

And PS, I searched and Seached but to no avail. I just couldnt find an informative comparison of these two guns. I dont mind opinions but Id prefer something beyond oah that gun sucks buy this.

Thanks.

[MicroMiniMe]

I'm sure you know any high end will shoot nice. Depends on preference and feel. AKA will service through the lifetime warantee. Viking and Excalibur production is ended/final run. DYE halted all aftermarket parts for Matrices. So whatever your gut leads gets you there.

Efficiency and maintenence would go to Viking, stock efficiency is tops and just oil the asa each time, rather than lube orings and check seals.. Both may be considered heavier markers. Out of box feel I see more towards Matrix, stock trigger on Viking needs adjustments (take out/cut spring). AKA Excalibur has more of a Matrix/DM4 shooting feel from what all those owners tell if you want something else to try.

Regardless your in a good neighborhood where price and performance are at the best value.

[Creative Mayhem]

Viking.

[teufelhunden]

Although the two markers work differently, I've found that they're quite similiar.. both obviously fast, accurate, consistent, yadda yadda.. but both are heavier than average [unless we're talking a milled down Vike] and they just feel similiar in my hands. Although the Trix has less felt kick and its trigger is nicer out of the box.

Bottom line: I can't pick between the two. Stock, vike wins on efficiency but it's trigger needs work and it kicks slightly more [like it almost matters at this point anyway..]

[68magOwner]

i have never been a big viking fan, and i currently rock a DM3, not my favorite marker, just need something untill the isis comes out, but, the DM3 is a great marker, no kick, no chops, REAL fast (but what isnt), i just dont like the feel much

[LittlePaintballBoy]

Viking, better efficency and more reliable. But if you do get a trix it is not at all a bad choice, I have owned 2 and they are my favorite markers to shoot. The efficiency just kills me though, and evolve kits are so hard to find.

[matmc89]

just buy my excal..problem solved

but between the two i would go viking

[Gunsmoke]

BuY the Viking ;)

[Steelrat]

Viking

-Better stock efficiency

-Top-notch parts are stock. Literally, you cannot buy better parts than what the gun comes with stock.

-Durability and reliability. I have NEVER had a viking or excal stop working on me in over one year of use. If you look at the parts inside, the quality is amazing. These guns are built to last.

-Speed-As fast as anything out there, once you set up your trigger right, which isnt hard at all. I had my illegally setup viking at 31 bps sustained, which is in a video posted on AO. I havent seen any trix or DM4 come close. Its just a good indicator of potential, though trixes and DM4s are plenty fast.

-Good support-the AKA forum on PBN is about the best forum there, and the head techs from AKA often post when people mention problems they are having.

Matrix has the gun beat in the "kick" department, though the mitey max volumizer helps to reduce viking kick, which really isnt all that bad to begin with. All 04 vikings come with eyes, quite a few 03s do also.

If you have anymore viking questions, please feel free to PM me.

[m20power]

Thanks for the good info so far.

From what Ive gathered I feel like the Viking is what Id really like. Id love an excal but they cost a tad to much. I mean I have the money, I can afford it. But I would feel bad having that expensive of a marker and not being a tourney player or something of the sort. I need my skill level to improve as well.

The matrix is nice and If I cant get a viking for 700 then I would proably pick one up. I just like the viking more since its sort of a sleeper. No fancy milling. Well, not on most of them. Its just high performance.

What worries me with the viking is not being able to get the replcement parts for it. From what ive gathered thats not much of an issue since its so high quality.

Ok, its 5:50 am, time for me to get back to sleep. night

[Steelrat]

Thanks for the good info so far.

From what Ive gathered I feel like the Viking is what Id really like. Id love an excal but they cost a tad to much. I mean I have the money, I can afford it. But I would feel bad having that expensive of a marker and not being a tourney player or something of the sort. I need my skill level to improve as well.

The matrix is nice and If I cant get a viking for 700 then I would proably pick one up. I just like the viking more since its sort of a sleeper. No fancy milling. Well, not on most of them. Its just high performance.

What worries me with the viking is not being able to get the replcement parts for it. From what ive gathered thats not much of an issue since its so high quality.

Ok, its 5:50 am, time for me to get back to sleep. night

AKA didn't go out of business. They still make plenty of other things, so I don't think replacement parts will be a major issue.

[adt501]

does anybody know where you can still buy new excals? last time i checked, AKA was out of their final production run, correct me if im wrong

[MicroMiniMe]

does anybody know where you can still buy new excals? last time i checked, AKA was out of their final production run, correct me if im wrong
I think Dan Voils commented that the factory still has a few raw kits left. Otherwise there are a few still out there with dealers and a few with online dealers. I think selectpaintball in AZ said they have a few.
Otherwise yeppers has a raw 1/2 milled excal that would be fantastic to send to JMJ for Crusader milling and then custom ano. But for solid type III black I'm sure there are a few dozen out with dealers.

[m20power]

Since you seem to know lots and lots about vikings.

Whats a reasonable price to pay for about a 2003 viking, eyes, eye covers, any kind of board, scm, mighty max.

I think thats all I really cared for. Color dosent matter to me, nor does milling. Im just after a tank that performs great.

[Crazy]

Matrix

[MicroMiniMe]

Since you seem to know lots and lots about vikings.

Whats a reasonable price to pay for about a 2003 viking, eyes, eye covers, any kind of board, scm, mighty max.

I think thats all I really cared for. Color dosent matter to me, nor does milling. Im just after a tank that performs great.
Please check me for pod person infection but look into the PBN AKA forum. Only oasis in a desert of brain rot.
But for your question $700 tops. As low as $500 without eyes.
Like red? (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=666024)
Joey D is on both forums, very stand up guy.

Older updated Excal (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=698326)
Maybe green? (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=157522)

Standard black 1/2 mill (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=686339)

Most of the AKA forum mods will do 3rd party for free. You pay your own shipping of course.

Don't know of many dealers with 03 stock new. Otherwise plenty of standard black 03 that are updated. Its just finding a used seller you are not so untrustworthy of.

[m20power]

Please check me for pod person infection but look into the PBN AKA forum. Only oasis in a desert of brain rot.
But for your question $700 tops. As low as $500 without eyes.
Like red? (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=666024)
Joey D is on both forums, very stand up guy.

Older updated Excal (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=698326)
Maybe green? (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=157522)

Standard black 1/2 mill (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=686339)

Most of the AKA forum mods will do 3rd party for free. You pay your own shipping of course.

Don't know of many dealers with 03 stock new. Otherwise plenty of standard black 03 that are updated. Its just finding a used seller you are not so untrustworthy of.


I just bought...
1)2k3 Black Half mill Viking
2)Pandora Board
3)Was Eyes
4)JMJ Covers
5)Bp No Rise
6)SCM
7)Mighty Max
8)Every viking goodness(like sidewinder,tornado valve, etc)
10)Stock Javelin
11)spare detents, screws,some orings, and AKA lube
for 700.00 shipped. How good of a deal is that?
The guy had awesome feedback so Im getting it directly from him. I guess he trusted me as well.

[shortkidsrus]

I must say that I greatly prefer the Viking! Between AKA's customer service, the speed, the great trigger feel (IMO) and the outstanding efficiency, the Viking is the best marker out there!

Not to say that I don't like Matrices, but the Viking is just cooler :p ! But if you do get a Matrix, get the CP roller trig, it makes a night and day difference!

[m20power]

I belive what I got comes with a Razor trigger.
How much are the CP triggers.

[LittlePaintballBoy]

CP's are for trices and timmies.

[Steelrat]

Thats a good deal on that viking. You can buy some nice JMJ roller triggers at www.dbnpaintball.com. The owner is one of the AKA master techs, and is a good dealer. I just got a reverse blade, and it feels great.

Your gun has every upgrade you will ever need. Now go out and enjoy yourself! If you feel the need to mess with settings, I have a roving toolkit I send around free of charge. Just sign up in the AKA forum at PBN.

[m20power]

Thanks Steelrat.

Its nice knowing that I can upgrade my gun because there isnt anything else to get for it.
And by some sheer luck, I bought a Reloader B with a Shocktech aluminum impeller for 110 4 days ago. With any luck they will both be here next week so I can play the following weekend. I cant wait. The only thing that makes me sad is the paintbills I will proably accumulate.

Something I an considering as an upgrade is a barrel system. I have a 14 inch .691 all american cocker thread and thats it. Since my cocker and viking will be cocker thread it just makes sense to buy a barrel system. Do you guys have any reccomendations?

The other thing I plan is to eventually upgrade my tank. I have a 68/3000 Bulldog. I will have to see how it performs on the gun.

[Steelrat]

You will probably get 1200-1400 shots out of that tank, which aint bad at all.

As for barrels...

The viking is an open bolt gun, so technically you can get away with a single large bore barrel. Only closed bolt guns (ie the cockers and excalibur) NEED a barrel kit to keep paint from rolling out the barrel. If you must have a kit, here are the ones I have used:

-Equation-not very well made IMHO
-DYE ultralight kit-Nice quality, expensive
-Site Stiffi switch-Nice kit, very light, crap anno on tip scratches off amazing fast
-titanium longbow-VERY nice kit, stupid expensive for titanium backs
-CP kit-all the quality of the DYE barrels at 1/2 the price-good stuff

And I dont know if anyone has told you, but dont use ANYTHING but AKA lube for your viking.

[m20power]

It is tempting just to stick with the large bore all american. I tend to prefer a loose paint to barrel match because I get less barrel breaks and tend to get more accuracy. I think its worth the drop in efficiency.

The marker is coming with some lube. Im a little curious about this though. I have always used Super Lube. It is a synthetic grease and oil thats food based so its ok to eat. Its nice when your teching a gun and eating chips to not have to worry about those little things like dying.
The guy who told me to use it is Marty from TAAG in Coursegold California. Hes a certified Bonebrake tech and uses it in place of dow 33. Its also a lot cheaper at only 3 dollars for about 8 ounces. I cant see why people buy Angel Love Juice which sucks IMHO. Its about 4 dollars an ounce last I checked.
And I digress.

So why should I use AKA lube. Is it simply better or is it like if I do not use it the AKA elfs will grow unhappy and stop working?

Peace on the Floor, not on your Shoes

[Steelrat]

It is tempting just to stick with the large bore all american. I tend to prefer a loose paint to barrel match because I get less barrel breaks and tend to get more accuracy. I think its worth the drop in efficiency.

The marker is coming with some lube. Im a little curious about this though. I have always used Super Lube. It is a synthetic grease and oil thats food based so its ok to eat. Its nice when your teching a gun and eating chips to not have to worry about those little things like dying.
The guy who told me to use it is Marty from TAAG in Coursegold California. Hes a certified Bonebrake tech and uses it in place of dow 33. Its also a lot cheaper at only 3 dollars for about 8 ounces. I cant see why people buy Angel Love Juice which sucks IMHO. Its about 4 dollars an ounce last I checked.
And I digress.

So why should I use AKA lube. Is it simply better or is it like if I do not use it the AKA elfs will grow unhappy and stop working?

Peace on the Floor, not on your Shoes

Well, AKA extreme lube is fully synthetic. Im not sure if it is food based. I do know that AKA guns use extremely fine tolerances. Anything other than a fine synthetic oil will frag the orings and make your gun non-functional. Dow 33 is a grease, and is used in places where the tolerances are so loose that the thick grease is needed to correct for the tolerance issues. Anything that can be used instead of Dow 33 should not be put in a viking. Plus, its $5 a bottle, and a bottle lasts forever, since you only need about 3-5 drops per day of play.

And I dont think a little lube will kill ya ;)

[m20power]

810 for a Viking and reloader B........Well I guess I can pay 5 dollars for oil.
:dance:

[C_22]

I'd go for trix (as if that wasn't predictable :) ) 'cause they are fast, efficient (provided you have a bolt kit), very very accurate, very very smooth operation, very easy maintenance. There is hardly any significant difference between the Gen-E LCD w/eyes and the DM3 ('xcept mabe slighlty ligher beeing a DM3). It's very upgradable (just look into TMC).

Or whatever makes you happy ;)

[MicroMiniMe]

I just bought...
1)2k3 Black Half mill Viking
2)Pandora Board
3)Was Eyes
4)JMJ Covers
5)Bp No Rise
6)SCM
7)Mighty Max
8)Every viking goodness(like sidewinder,tornado valve, etc)
10)Stock Javelin
11)spare detents, screws,some orings, and AKA lube
for 700.00 shipped. How good of a deal is that?
The guy had awesome feedback so Im getting it directly from him. I guess he trusted me as well.
Heck of a deal. Sounds like the gun one of the mods/techs was selling. Yeah, CP kit is best bang for the buck. Lapco is always good too.
If you do start maxing out the ROF with the Viking using the Reloader, your tank might actually start to starve. Check Steelratts sig for his and Zak Vetters videos. Croosfire and Dynaflow tanks are highly recommended for consistiency and flow. AA just came out with preset tanks, with dust finishes too (match that hard dust finish on the Vike?), and they are always solid products.
You should be ready to rock solid.

[m20power]

Yeah Im very happy with what I paid and what I got. Im anxious to get it. If I can next week Ill get some photos of it and reasurect this thread from the dead. The photo from the for sale link is no longer up but it was very sexy. I love how the SCM and Mighty Max look side by side.

[Bartman]

does anybody know where you can still buy new excals? last time i checked, AKA was out of their final production run, correct me if im wrong


You can still get excals from AKA, trust me, I still build them everyday. As well as ther are a few viking left at the shop as well, I am still building them as well. You could call the shop, and ask.

I know there are 15 excals sitting and waiting for me to test them and get them to the sales department. I also beleive that next week at Comanbders cup we will have a couple of each there for sale,

I hope the weather is going ot be nice in sandiago

Hope this helps,

Bartman

[ilikePB]

I had a Viking up until about a couple weeks ago. It was a great gun. I would highly recommend it to anyone. Very very reliable and very fast. The rediculously(sp?) good efficiency was a plus also. You can't really go wrong buying one. Plus, if you decide you want to sell it to try a different gun you will be able to easily sell it for what you bought it for.