why did agd abandon twist lock?

[phelix]

did agd go to cocker threads for compatibility/price purposes, or is there an actual functional reason why twist lock is inferior? twist lock seems like a very smart and efficient system - the bore is integrated with the barrel; less seams, less spin, more accuracy. just wondering what the answer to this is.

[Muzikman]

Ease of maching an all aluminum body. The fact that you can find cocker threaded barrels any place and for a cheaper price the twist locks. I think those are the big two reasons.

[personman]

It was a clever design, but the barrels with twistlock are harder to produce, and therefore not many companys were willing to do them. That resulted in a lack of choices for barrels. Also I think the fact that most guns have cocker threading now, thats kind of the industry standard. Also, retarded people claimed that they were less accurate because they are held by orings, and no threads (aka the people at my shop. They said cocker threading was better and I asked why, and thats what they said.. haha)

[phelix]

it doesnt matter what they're held by - they're not held ON to anything important - all the solid factors that affect accuracy are integrated into the barrel. so i am correct in saying that the reasons are purely standards/economics?

[personman]

so i am correct in saying that the reasons are purely standards/economics?
Yes.

[JoshK]

^^^ what phbelix said sounds right (plus a few other basically said what he said)

[Koosh]

Another reason:

The inner bore of the the barrel/breach is not AGD tolerance when any fool with a Lathe can make a barrel... by moving to the more standard Breach, they can design for a tighter fit with the bolt, decreasing blowback and increasing effeciency

[cphilip]

Superior ideas often are abandoned for cheaper and conformity when they become less nessicary....

You gotta also remember that the advent of better barrel boring and better paint match and things like Level 10 .... made the need to snatch the barrel out and clean it in the field almost obsolete. So the superior function of that quick twist and pull became a moot point. Now we control breaks with level 10 and paint match.... So its all rather less nessicary than it was back in the day.

[JoshK]

Wow....there is so much insight on these forums...thats why it is my favorite.

[BeaverEater]

I'm not sure but with the whole light weight thing, is a twist-lock barrel heavier? That my also factor into to it some how.

[cphilip]

No... its not lighter. It was quicker to remove, swab and replace.... plus it gave a great advantage that there was no risk of a mismatch between were the barrel screwed into the body. In the case of a twist lock barrel, the ball dropped straight into the barrel. the hole in the barrel allowed the ball to drop through and end up right in the barrel. No passage over a joint where barrel meets body.

You have to remember that "back in the day" the important things were quick cleaning because paint was rather irregular and breaks fairly common and durability. Two things the Mag with twist lock excelled at. Weight was not that important. Nor really should it be now. Its probably over exagerated what if any advantage less weight gives. In fact for some its a dissadvantage.

Now a days its light weight and low pressure. Two things often hyped that give no advantage at all and or are totaly missunderstood or missrepresented.

[teufelhunden]

Low pressure is hyped, I will agree with you there. But a lighter gun can be nothing but an advantage, considering how little felt recoil there is with these guns-- not enough to really affect accuracy because we aren't getting perfect chronos. A lighter gun allows quicker movement of the gun, throws off balance less when running with it in one hand, and over the length of a tourney, results in less fatigue. Don't give me the old "well if it's too heavy go to the gym.." because no matter how strong one is, he will still be able to move a lighter gun faster and it will still result in less fatigue.

[cphilip]

Yea but you people get all excited about an ounce. 30 grams. Thats normaly what we are talking here. We are not talking great amounts of differences from then and now. half a pound or less everall. Peanuts. Most people now exagerate this into some magical tournament winning advantage to shave an ounce. I guess if you really believe its sort of placebotic or something... Eventualy you do get so light that recoil, even with the ligher bolts, takes you on and off target. So I would never say "can be nothing but an advantage". But of course accuracy is a fleeting over exagerated thing in paintball anyway. Many people find a nice solid marker of decent weight better for them. Many claim not.

Low pressure is not really a myth. Understanding of where it counts and applies is.

[Enemy]

also is it just me or werent there problems with the twist lock barrels being impacted bye the lvl 10 bolts due to the barrels bore being too small which wasnt an issue pre level 10.. sorry nobody said it.. and the weight savings in paintball is like the weight savings in a car most spend lots of money in making something as light as possible then put a fat driver or in pb fat hopper into things!!

[cphilip]

also is it just me or werent there problems with the twist lock barrels being impacted bye the lvl 10 bolts due to the barrels bore being too small which wasnt an issue pre level 10.. sorry nobody said it.. and the weight savings in paintball is like the weight savings in a car most spend lots of money in making something as light as possible then put a fat driver or in pb fat hopper into things!!

no.... not that I know of. There was an issue with the SS ring in the body's that was used for a long time forming a lip of material that might have to be filed down if the bolt stuck. But that was just before the barrel.... After that there was a few issues with very small bore Cocker threaded barrels sticking. Filing the bolt a tad was the fix for that. But no... there was no issue with level 10 and the twist lock barrel that I recall.

true. tanks now are heavier than some markers. And often its harder to place the tank in a comfortable location to balance the whole set up.

[Magaman]

no.... not that I know of. There was an issue with the SS ring in the body's that was used for a long time forming a lip of material that might have to be filed down if the bolt stuck. But that was just before the barrel.... After that there was a few issues with very small bore Cocker threaded barrels sticking. Filing the bolt a tad was the fix for that. But no... there was no issue with level 10 and the twist lock barrel that I recall.

true. tanks now are heavier than some markers. And often its harder to place the tank in a comfortable location to balance the whole set up.

I don't have any problems with my Lvl 10 and my Twist Lock... :bounce:

[Fanatic]

why dont we just tell the truth!

sorry tom i have to do this!

tom and the gang at AGD where just fed up of making the grooves with their handy-dandy dremels. :p

[phelix]

my gun's heavy as hell, and i don't mind it that much. i use the heavier and unbalanced of my barrels because i like the way it shoots. the weight piece of this argument is much less significant than the thread seam piece.

[GoatBoy]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=151833
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=150219
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=139549
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=137951
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=89965
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=79971
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=61777

[Carbon]

has a company ever made quarter turn or half turn channel threading for a barrel. You know, kinda like the threading scheme on a the breech of a Howitzer?

[cphilip]

has a company ever made quarter turn or half turn channel threading for a barrel. You know, kinda like the threading scheme on a the breech of a Howitzer?

I think Tipman came closest to one. A very corse thread that only takes a few turns to undo it. But nothing close to what you describe. I guess the AGD twist lock was closest to what your descibing but basicaly was an L shaped channel to lock rather than a thread.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

I think Tipman came closest to one. A very corse thread that only takes a few turns to undo it. But nothing close to what you describe. I guess the AGD twist lock was closest to what your descibing but basicaly was an L shaped channel to lock rather than a thread.

I believe the Marker is called the Viper M1. It uses a " 1/4 turn barrel", as said from an ad.