A quick poll about cheaters

[Tyger]

I hate being injured. It gives me too much time to think.

The poll is pretty self explanatory. Please answer honestly. If nothing matches up to a prefrerence, vote the closest to that option. Discussion encouraged.

-Tyger

[FutureMagOwner]

i went with option 3, everyone makes mistakes, gets caught up in the game, some more than others, if it became a problem after that i would consider taking it further, assuming it bothered me or if i even noticed in the first place

[toolfan62]

you forgot the "Bonus Ball them" option

[MonsterMag]

if they cheat , bunker them and say "My bad " :D

[Tyger]

Toolfan, you're right. I forgot the "punish them" option. Dang. Umm, out of the 3 given, tho, #2 is the closest to that?

-Tyger

[Chipper]

you forgot the "Bonus Ball them" option
I agree. I guess I would do #3, but if I was in a Tournie and no reff was doing anything and wouldn't believe me, I would bonus him really bad.

But if I was just playing rec I would just make them fess up or if it was some newb who didn't know I would just explain it to him.

[-=Squid=-]

I don't think twice about it, because I really don't care of others cheat.

[Got_Paint]

I would let the ref know of the past history and to keep a close eye on them.

If they don't cheat against me I'm fine, I'm not so much out too look for problems, but if they are to happen I want them to be taken care of IMEDIATLY.

I'm not gonna hover over them with a camcorder because they have cheated in the past, they could have changed their ways.

[LaW]

Yeah but guys cheating is just part of the game, i mean come on the pros do it so its gotta be alright! I am wondering why Tyger hasnt made a instructional video yet on how to cheat effectively :rofl:

[BlackWeenie]

I don't think twice about it, because I really don't care of others cheat.

exactly, i dont really care. uh oh, someone might shoot me 10 times instead of 7!!!! omg no! its part of the game guys, get over it. whether you like it or not, cheating is here to stay, just like in every other sport/game that has ever existed throughout history.

[Chipper]

exactly, i dont really care. uh oh, someone might shoot me 10 times instead of 7!!!! omg no! its part of the game guys, get over it. whether you like it or not, cheating is here to stay, just like in every other sport/game that has ever existed throughout history.
I realize this but that doesn't mean that it isn't a pain to deal with right? I wouldn't believe you if you told me it didn't bother you, because I know it does.

And maybe if we help new players realize that its wrong instead of saying "i don't really care" it would stop being part of todays society, or at least less of it.

[-=Squid=-]

I guess you wouldn't believe me, because it doesn't bother me.

[BeaverEater]

I could care less about people cheating playing rec ball. But a tourny is a whole different ball game, there's a little bit more at stake.

[Mango]

I want them to come on the internet and post about it.

[AGDlover]

I'd take pics & vids show it to him and the refs and make him addmit hes cheating and make him cry home

[player4]

One day, these kids were cheating, and they had been all day long. In one of the final games of the day, it was these two kids (both had been cheating) in the back right bunker together. Me and my friends were not playing this game, but we were watching. Anways, this one guy was deciding wether to come up and bunker them or not. My friends, me and some other people then made hand signals for the guy to come up and bunker them. He then came up and shot both of the kids from point blank range in the back. :rofl: It was hilarious. That's how I will deal with cheaters from now on!

[AGDlover]

just remember people, you cant wipe the welt!!!!

[C_lawgik]

over shooting dosnt bother me at all its the stinkin windshield kids that wip all day long.

[-=Squid=-]

just remember people, you cant wipe the welt!!!!
Good one.

[Kevmaster]

tourny: I'll be yelling at the ref

rec ball: You can do whatever you damn well please. If you need to cheat in rec ball your life already sucks too much for me to care about you

[BlackWeenie]

One day, these kids were cheating, and they had been all day long. In one of the final games of the day, it was these two kids (both had been cheating) in the back right bunker together. Me and my friends were not playing this game, but we were watching. Anways, this one guy was deciding wether to come up and bunker them or not. My friends, me and some other people then made hand signals for the guy to come up and bunker them. He then came up and shot both of the kids from point blank range in the back. :rofl: It was hilarious. That's how I will deal with cheaters from now on!

wow you showed those cheaters by cheating right back at them! youre the greatest man in the history of the internet!

[LittlePaintballBoy]

He didn't cheat, he was watching.

[Richter]

if they cheat , bunker them and say "My bad " :D
This is the same ignorant atttitude that i get from the cheaters at the field when i confront them. The "oh whatever" or the "what do you mean"arrogant/ignorant attitude is what i see and they then just brush me off. Anymore it just ticks me off; I guess they expect me to be igornant/stupid and not know what they are doing; or they expect me think that they are stupid. It reminds me of when i watch COPS on tv and the people blantantly lieing to the cops face. Oh well, this is nothing against you emagballa560.

[frop]

I'd scream out WIPER! really loud like the Mexican soccer announcers & confront them after the game.

BTW Tyger, how ya doin bud?

[-=Squid=-]

This is the same ignorant atttitude that i get from the cheaters at the field when i confront them. The "oh whatever" or the "what do you mean"arrogant/ignorant attitude is what i see and they then just brush me off. Anymore it just ticks me off; I guess they expect me to be igornant/stupid and not know what they are doing; or they expect me think that they are stupid. It reminds me of when i watch COPS on tv and the people blantantly lieing to the cops face. Oh well, this is nothing against you emagballa560.
What are you talking about?

[XSSPL]

tourny: I'll be yelling at the ref

rec ball: You can do whatever you damn well please. If you need to cheat in rec ball your life already sucks too much for me to care about you


very well put. Touneys now are full of hidden cheat tactics:

> the Pete Rose belly slide for no apparent reason
> the simultaneous hand pointing to some random direction on the field while the inner arm is pulled over the hopper or tank hit
> The running with a cupped hand in front of the mask so that if a ball is headed in that direction - it will hit the palm which can then be then squeezed shut and all evidence lost
> Or the "reloading" an already near full hopper so as to wipe the gun, etc

I've even witnessed organized cheating where one player that knows he was just tagged will yell out some "code word" and another of their teammates on the other side of the field will call for the ref for his own "paint check" or otherwise non-existant "emergency.

To put it simply, I fear that the sport has become so much about maximum conceivable rate of fire and so little about real strategy that our tournements now are won by those that got caught cheating the least.

Yes, I know that tourney teams do have strategy meetings, but when you boil it down - you throw more paint than them and do whatever it takes to keep as many team mates "alive" as long as possible until the final end horn blows and you're left with the most points. Whenever money gets involved - big amounts or small - you will sacrifice integrety.

Now to offer my own, every weekend solution to a "wiper" - shoot the ever living piss out of him/her and blame any reprimands by the refs on the fact that your gun went hyper or he never called hit - whatever, but just plain old wear their *** out - bottom line is make them wish they had called hit prior to the second volley of 15 rounds that are now dripping from their worthless body and their skin has been subjected to a crash course in blood vessel breakage.

Then if/when the ****er tries to call you out for excessive shooting in front of a ref/owner/other players - keep it to a simple, "Don't wipe paint and you won't get lit up"

I shoot bright *** yellow paint with yellow/pink shell - i can track my ball flight really well and, I'm sorry, but if I just squeezed out 10-15 rounds while you unwittengly stuck your torso out from behind a bunker and my own eyes saw at least 5 that tracked to your body AND now all of a sudden you dissappear behind the barricade for while or plain old run off - CHEATER! and you will pay dearly in the form of bruises.

[punkncat]

Definately confront them. That way all involved get an opportunity to "explain" their point of view. Not always what you see is as it really was.

Option #2 is the same situation that caused a huge crap sandwich surrounding a past AO event....right? It would be too easy to take something out of context and create a harmful situation to a baller for something that really wasn't portrayed as it was.

[teufelhunden]

Wiping isn't cheating. It's a violation of the rules. Same way that any contact on a shot in basketball is a violation of the rules.

That said, make it impossible for someone to wipe paint. People generally have trouble wiping multiple hits before someone notices, unless the superman-- and usually non-tourney ballers and rookie tourney guys can't superman for ****, so you can light them up then too.

On top of that, most tourneys aren't as full of wiping as non-tourney guys would have you believe. Penalties are too steep and there's too many refs on the field nowadays. To wipe well is a skill, same as taking a convincing dive in basketball is a skill. It's not like ramping where something else is doing the work, someone who can get away with a wipe practiced that too.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Have them admit it so that everyone would know that they have to send an extra 16 balls to the guy's noggins to make sure he realizes he's out................ :D

[okiTony]

#3 or paint them up. :nono: Same as the guy above,"Don't wipe paint and you won't get lit up"

[Meph]

I went for #2. I've been saying for a while now a good way to "stop" many cheaters is within magazines. Publicizing who cheats, what teams, and their sponsors. Making it sound like their sponsor is supporting them and supporting cheating. Public humiliation is quite effective.

Either way the problem really isn't that cheating's there, or that you can prove they did it. It's that the penalties aren't even close to as harsh as they should be. I don't know if people would wipe should a $5,000 fine be attached to each one.

Players can suck up a player being taken out of the game, but not many will want a financial hit to their pocket!




Wiping isn't cheating. It's a violation of the rules.

Okay............ logic behind this statement? I thought violating the rules was what cheating is?

[ScatterPlot]

I had this problem a little while ago, and I yelled my head off that I saw one break on the guy as he kept playing on. I'm pretty sure his teammates were too, cause my friends agreed with me later. So after confrontation doesn't work, then do you think I'm gonna go out if I can get away with playing on? Note this was recball, not a tourney situation. But I was livid, and they were army guys for crying out loud :cry:

[teufelhunden]

Okay............ logic behind this statement? I thought violating the rules was what cheating is?

It's breaking the rules. Do you consider jumping offsides in football cheating? How about icing in hockey or balking in baseball?

[ScatterPlot]

Of course would you not consider one of those special weird bats in Baseball that are against the rules cheating? The ones with like cork or metal or hollowness or whatever in the middle. It's like having someone look at the cards for you in casino poker and radio them in to you. It's like having cards up your sleeve. Some things that break the rules are not cheating, like fouling someone in basketball to stop the clock or something. But there are some things that are against the rules, like having cards of your own in poker or something. It's pretty much impossible to deem one thing cheating over another, but IMO "playing dirty" constitutes cheating, like wiping, hitting in the crotch in football, nailing someone in basketball, falling to make it look worse than it was, and wiping. Yeah I would say wiping is playing dirty, like shooting for the head or the nards, or bonus balling like crazy.

[Meph]

It's breaking the rules. Do you consider jumping offsides in football cheating?

If they jump offsides and are doing that to get a head start before the snap, damn right it's cheating. Crossing the line of scrimmage before the snap... that's not cheating?

Again, use logic!

*edit*
NPPL 2004 Rule Book V.35.01 "Wiping is defined as the active and deliberate removal of paint by a player in order to avoid elimination or avoid a referee’s call."

So by performing this task it is not cheating?

Might I suggest you read a dictionary, plenty of definitions in there including "To violate rules deliberately, as in a game"

Logic... Please!

[BlackWeenie]

very well put. Touneys now are full of hidden cheat tactics:

> the Pete Rose belly slide for no apparent reason
> The running with a cupped hand in front of the mask so that if a ball is headed in that direction - it will hit the palm which can then be then squeezed shut and all evidence lost



or maybe, JUST MAYBE, they dive into bunkers so that theyre lower to the ground and are thus harder to hit. i also have a conspiracy theory that states: balls bounce off of your soft hands more often than off your hard mask.

[GT]

wow,
there is alot od text in this thread. I'll add my .02 bucks and not read anyone elses, ;) . If I see someone cheat, I pull them aside and have a little chat. It may just be that I think they cheated yet I couldnt really see what was going on.

If it happens twice I know there a little cheating bastard, and reminding the ref of his job is inorder.


allowing people to cheat in this sport futher degrades our integraty. If you choost to do that fine, but rest assured your just as big of a problem as the cheater, and your days are number.

[Lohman446]

Well... lets have this little scenario

You get a lane on an exposed part of me, send five or six of your special "super always break never bounce I follow trajectory perfectly with my eyes" paintballs.

I duck into the bunker and come out shooting again a few seconds later - but you saw it, I must have cheated. Or you watched the balls, maybe got a bounce, maybe watched one break on the side of the bunker and thought it hit me.

So now you play super vigilante and decide it is your "duty" on the field to punish me. You decide bonus balling is the appropriate answer and do it. The first time I take it as an accident, things happen. The second or third time I'm getting rather annoyed by it and its becoming apparant that it is deliberate. The fourth time you do it I dump a pod in my hopper, take an angle on you and start dumping pods of paint at you. We'll just play "painball" until we settle our differences ok. Sounds fair to me right? I can nearly gaurentee that I am going to take more hits than you before you decide vigilante "justice" is not the way to go. :rolleyes: Would what I be doing vigilante justice. Sure... but in all reality if I can't stand to play with someone because of how they play I am either going to calmly talk to someone in charge about it or not play... its not my job to enforce the rules.

[teufelhunden]

A corked bat is a performance enhancer, just like roids or a ramping gun. Cheating. Jumping offsides gets you caught. Not cheating. Anybody who's ever played a sport at the varsity or even JV level knows that you bend the rules. Whether it's pushing off on a post move or holding in football, everybody does it knowing they can get caught but knowing the payoff is worth it if they don't.

You can scream "logic, please" all you want.. because you fail to see it. It takes a special skill to be able to break the rules and get away with it.. the same way it takes a special skill to pull 23 bps, the same way it takes a special skill to dunk a basketball or hit a home run.

[SoccerPaintball3]

i hate cheater!!!!!

[Flow_Tech]

defintly number option 3.

[Duzzy]

I don't think that going out of bounds is really cheating. To me cheating is purposely breaking rules to gain an unfair advantage/or win.

Slipping out of bounds IS breaking a rule. Slipping out of bounds IS NOT cheating unless...

You try to cover it up so you won't have to accept the penalty (b/c it is rule breaking and therefore comes with a penalty).

I will however say that cheating can never be an accident, that is how I define it. If someone is hit and doesn't know about it then it is an accident, and if they accept the penalty with grace and some amount of tact then it should not be held against them. It is cheating when they purposely play on knowing that they are hit, and if they know it, then it cannot be an accident.


Anybody who's ever played a sport at the varsity or even JV level knows that you bend the rules. Whether it's pushing off on a post move or holding in football, everybody does it knowing they can get caught but knowing the payoff is worth it if they don't.

That doesn't make it right, and I do know what you are talking about because I played HS B-ball (even though I sucked at it). I know about the whole "take the charge even when they don't hit you hard enough to knock you over." I have seen 240 lb Posts fall over when a 150 lb forward runs into them and they get the charge call. If you have to cheat to win then why play? Anyone can cheat, not everyone can do it well but every competitive game involves gaining skill, and without that component is there really a point to competing?

That said I don't like cheating, and I think that a "don't care" attitude is not the way to go. If you play fair against a cheater you won't win. If they wipe everytime they are hit, and you go out, then you won't win. And that takes away the point of the game, and pointless things get really boring really fast. They will always cheat because, "If no one cares then it cannot possibly be the wrong thing, or a bad thing, because if it was someone would care."

Plus cheating has a negative impact on our sport, when new players go out into a game where people cheat and no one cares they won't have fun, they will get frustrated because no matter what they do or how hard they try they won't win. So they in turn either cheat or quit. I am done for now, if I think of anything else to rant about I am sure everyone will know soon enough. Peace. :cheers:

[Kevmaster]

honestly, i dont see the big problem with cheating

cheating is one way of getting ahead. just like you'd never try to cheat in a pick-up basketball game, you'd prolly never try to cheat in a rec ball game.

in a tournie, though, its acceptable, IMHO, to cheat. its just like any other sport. when you cheat, you know there is a consequence IF you get caught. if you get caught, then you have to face that conesquence. if you don't then props to you.

i dont know why everyone gets all bent outta shape about cheating and such when it happens and is ACCEPTED in every other sport. its a part of the game. sometimes intentional, sometimes not--either way, part of the game


thats the reason for my position. if you're playing rec, you shouldn't be cheating. its not worth it.
if its a tourny, im going to try to get the ref to catch you, but im not MAD if he didnt and you got away with it

[TeamNausea]

you forgot the "Bonus Ball them" option
^^^

[gc82000]

Shoot them in the neck and let them know it was you.

[Duzzy]

honestly, i dont see the big problem with cheating

cheating is one way of getting ahead. just like you'd never try to cheat in a pick-up basketball game, you'd prolly never try to cheat in a rec ball game.

in a tournie, though, its acceptable, IMHO, to cheat. its just like any other sport. when you cheat, you know there is a consequence IF you get caught. if you get caught, then you have to face that conesquence. if you don't then props to you.

i dont know why everyone gets all bent outta shape about cheating and such when it happens and is ACCEPTED in every other sport. its a part of the game. sometimes intentional, sometimes not--either way, part of the game


thats the reason for my position. if you're playing rec, you shouldn't be cheating. its not worth it.
if its a tourny, im going to try to get the ref to catch you, but im not MAD if he didnt and you got away with it

When you allow "cheating as long as you don't get caught" you neglect the skill part of any game. The Pro Players are very talented, I have seen them and I am very impressed with what they can do. However, some people like to play with nothing other than heart, skill, and a love of the game, and personally if I had the money I would rather sponsor them than anyone else. What you are saying is like saying that it is ok for the government to take more tax money than legislation allows as long as they don't get caught. This is not a related example, but it is "cheating" (purposefully breaking a rule to gain an unfair advantage) and I think everyone would be mad. Corporate executives have "cheated" and stolen and are you going to tell me that you approve of this as long as they don't get caught? Some people work hard to get where they are, just like others work hard for their money and they don't want their accomplishments wasted because someone else is greedy.

Another thing about cheating is that IT IS DISRESPECTFUL TO THE OTHER PLAYER. It is saying that I do not respect your skill, and to prove it I am going to wipe away your accomplishment and pretend it never happened. If someone has the skill to mark you, then you should acknowledge that skill by being honest and walking off the field, and even say nice shot after the game.

[tony3]

Wiping is the one of the stupidest things you can do in a tourney. Only time to wipe is if you have slim to none chance of getting caught. 3 for 1 penalties suck. However, playing on is a 1 for 1, not as much of a loss.

Cheating, imo, not a big deal. It happens way less then you would think. The tourney I played today if there was a doubt of you getting hit refs were all over you. People need to stop getting bent out of shape about wiping. They act like its the end of the world. Today in the tourney, I don' think I shot any player on the other team less then 3 times when I shot them, its hard to wipe 3 hits.

[Xyxyll]

I think #3's a good choice, but to tell you the truth, if I had a field and discovered that a certain player was cheating, they'd be off the field for the day... maybe even forever. Cheating has become too common nowadays simply because the "No Cheating" rules are never enforced.

[Lohman446]

My personal opinion on the whining in this thread about cheating... I hate it when I hear a player yell "Check his hopper ref I know I got him, check him more check him check him check him" when the ref is already there and has looked. Everyone seems to think they have magic eyes that can tell hits from across field and everyone they play against wipes etc. I think there is a lot less cheating then AO indicates, and a lot of people who "witness" all this cheatin frankly don't know what they are talking about.

[BlackWeenie]

When you allow "cheating as long as you don't get caught" you neglect the skill part of any game.

all pros in every sport have cheated at one point or another in their career. does that make them suck? no. theyre trying to get a competitive edge. cheating is part of every sport and always will be, the thing pb should be concerned about is guns that have velocity cheats (pretty much same deal as with ramping, etc. but the velocity is increased during the game) because this could actually hurt someone. getting ripped 10 times in the gogs is not going to break them (because they are designed to take a beating), but getting shot 10 times in the gogs at 350 fps is a different story.

[t33kyboy]

all pros in every sport have cheated at one point or another in their career. does that make them suck?

Yes. When you need to CHEAT to win, then you suck.

[-=Squid=-]

My personal opinion on the whining in this thread about cheating... I hate it when I hear a player yell "Check his hopper ref I know I got him, check him more check him check him check him" when the ref is already there and has looked. Everyone seems to think they have magic eyes that can tell hits from across field and everyone they play against wipes etc. I think there is a lot less cheating then AO indicates, and a lot of people who "witness" all this cheatin frankly don't know what they are talking about.
We have a winner.

[magmanl337]

My personal opinion on the whining in this thread about cheating... I hate it when I hear a player yell "Check his hopper ref I know I got him, check him more check him check him check him" when the ref is already there and has looked. Everyone seems to think they have magic eyes that can tell hits from across field and everyone they play against wipes etc. I think there is a lot less cheating then AO indicates, and a lot of people who "witness" all this cheatin frankly don't know what they are talking about.

I agree. Honestly, you should have to get some sort of liscense to call for paint checks, makes my job that much easier, hehee.

[Duzzy]

I think I said (know I said) that Pros have a lot of skill but that doesn't excuse cheating.


i dont know why everyone gets all bent outta shape about cheating and such when it happens and is ACCEPTED in every other sport. its a part of the game. sometimes intentional, sometimes not--either way, part of the game


This is a late response I know, but the fact that everyone in every sport cheats does not make it right. When the majority decides morality you have mob rules, and those don't work for some odd reason.

I am going to say a few more things before I get off my soapbox.

1. When the majority are insane the sane go to the mental hospital. :cry:

2. Me and integrity apparently have to go on vacation for a while. :clap:

3. Everyone cheats at some point in their life, I don't think I have in paintball, but I have in school a few times. I am not proud of it, and doing it habitually is not something that "everyone" does.

4. When people are done playing with me every game this is what I want to hear...

"He sucks at paintball, it's a good thing he plays with a pump because he wastes 50 rouns hitting nothing instead of a case every game, but he has integrity and is not a sore loser."

Maybe not the first part but as long as people say the last part I don't care if I ever win, because winning comes and goes, once integrity is lost it is never completely regained.

5. This may be putting a neon sign in front of blind people but I think it is important...


Deserve Victory

Don't just get it, or earn it (if you cheat enough you could theoretically earn it by the sheer amount of work you do to cheat and not get caught), DESERVE IT.

[B.A.M.]

#3 so every one will know he cheats and so he wont be trusted cuz thats the most important thing to have

[No sKiLLz]

If someone has to cheat to beat you, you've already won.

[bleachit]

I shoot bright *** yellow paint with yellow/pink shell - i can track my ball flight really well and, I'm sorry, but if I just squeezed out 10-15 rounds while you unwittengly stuck your torso out from behind a bunker and my own eyes saw at least 5 that tracked to your body AND now all of a sudden you dissappear behind the barricade for while or plain old run off - CHEATER! and you will pay dearly in the form of bruises.


I love Yellow fill, I shoot it with a green shell mostly... but I can still track the balls. I usually just call the people out when I see the paint track to them like that, or ask them to check themselves.. then again, I only play rec ball.

[Meph]

You can scream "logic, please" all you want.. because you fail to see it.

Okay then I'll break it down very easy like for you.


If Cheating = Violation of Rule(s)
And if Wiping = Violation of Rule
Then conclusion to this is...

Wiping = Cheating.


Period.


People who argue otherwise are just attempting to validate any excuse for violating the rules of the game. Usually people who cheat themselves!

[Torbo]

the 2 biggest points of cheating in pball are gun cheats and wiping/playing on.

as far as gun cheats, i couldnt care less if people shoot full auto guns or ramping. Mostly because so many people do it, im pretty used to playing against ramping guns. If its obvious velocity ramping, ill call them on it. just bps isnt a big deal anymore.

Wiping/playing on in a tourney: ill be yelling at the refs to take care of that. After the game ill let the refs know too. Also, if i have a chance, ill shoot the piss out of that player, and his team too.

i usually tell everyone i see too. Like if a team we play wipes against us, blatently, everyone we talk to at the tournament hears about it.

[Chris42050]

I fail to see the point of playing paintball if cheating is accepted. The point is to shoot the other team until they are all dead. If I shoot people and they never become dead, why am I even bothering to play. It makes a fun game pointless.

[minimag03]

If you really want to get the person, do all three. Get a picture, ask your friends if they think the same thing about them, and then get him/her to admit that they are doing it. Chances are they will never cheat again, or atleast at your field.

[hitech]

Wiping isn't cheating. It's a violation of the rules. Same way that any contact on a shot in basketball is a violation of the rules.

I COMPLETELY DISAGREE.

It's as far from a "foul" in basketball as it can be. It's MUCH closer to corking a bat in baseball. Or using steroids.

[Southparkrocks]

I COMPLETELY DISAGREE.

It's as far from a "foul" in basketball as it can be. It's MUCH closer to corking a bat in baseball. Or using steroids.

Nah I'd say it's more a foul too, I consider ramping more like corking a bat or using steroids.

[hitech]

Nah I'd say it's more a foul too, I consider ramping more like corking a bat or using steroids.

It is more like ramping. A much better example is moving your golf ball from a bad lie to a better lie. Or stepping on someone else's ball to bury it a little more. It's not at all like a foul. A foul is intended to be part of the game. Wiping is not. :rolleyes:

[ScatterPlot]

Like I said, it's basically "playing dirty" that constitutes cheating. A foul can be cheating or not. Usually not, but if you like slug the guy in the balls that's cheating in my book. If you need to cheat to win, you are a homosexual.

[SlartyBartFast]

A foul can be cheating or not.

I wouldn't say that. Most fouls are things that you don't want to happen in a game and want to punish, but will occasionally happen unintentionally.

Some games/sports even distinguish between intentional fouls and unintentional ones.

It is very difficult to unintentionally wipe. :mad:

[Lohman446]

:rolleyes: I have tried to think of a way to say this nicely, and now I have decided screw it it needs said eventually. No, Im not in a good mood when I make this post... but this whole type of thread is friggin annoying.

You know what I think is hurting paintball as much as actual cheating? People who have the need to whine about what they perceive as cheating at every chance. I hear more about cheating then I think I can ever possibly see, each incident of perceived cheating is blown so far out of porportion as to be stupid. If I had read these forums, and listened to people before I played I would have never played. A lot of people are whining to much about it.

I hear all over here... I track the ball to them, and then call them out, if they don't go out they must have cheated. You have magic eyes? Magic paintballs? Tracers? Something the rest of us don't have. Maybe your not that good, maybe it nicked the bunker, maybe just maybe it bounced.

I'm sick of being told about the times I cheated when I didn't. I was at tournament the other day and our team had three three man teams there. One of my own teammates had the nerve to whine that I had "rolled" over for our other team to kick them down in standing. And he would not give up about it... now I had not rolled, they beat me fair and square. He demeaned my play in doing so, my teammates playing with me play, and the other teams play (who were my team to). He then tried to get the next team to roll for him... :rolleyes:

I'm sick of people yelling across field "get out get out get out get out" "ref ref ref ref I hit him" when a) I check my own hits and call myself when I see them and b) there are refs on top of me. It gets friggin ridiculous, when accusing someone of cheating in fact becomes a way to cheat (yelling for paintchecks to distract refs) its gone to far.

I'm sick of recballers telling me since I play tournaments I must cheat. I'm sick of being in a position where if I win I will be told I had to have cheated. And you know what, its normally not the other team saying it... those I play again and congratulate at the end of a day... its the people who want to do nothing but sit and whine about why they don't play tournaments. Maybe its because you don't want to risk loosing, maybe its because if you loose "the other guys cheated" is a convenient excuse. When my team looses it is ALWAYS my fault... I take responsibility for making the calls, I take responsibility for not covering mistakes of others, and I take responsibility for my own mistakes, gun malfunctions, whatever. I don't need to come up with some excuse for why the other team cheated me.

I'm sick of this I'm going to be a vigilante attitude. Accuse me of cheating off the field, you better be prepared to back it. Decide to unload a hopper on me because you thought I cheated you better be prepared not to be on that field again.

I'm sick of logging onto threads, and seeing a good portion of people who seldom play tournaments whine about the cheating within (not everyone). I'm sick of people who want to tell me every slide is a cheat... I slid it must have been to wipe :rolleyes: . Get over it... it happens... quit whining because your making it sound like it is all that happens at tournaments. Maybe its different where you live.

[hitech]

I'm sick of being told about the times I cheated when I didn't...

I understand your frustration. It's a symptom of the problem. Those who cheat give those who don't a bad name.

I do agree with you on the tracking of a paintball into someone. If you did not see it HIT ON THE OPPOSING PLAYER you have NO idea if it broke.

Sliding to cover up hits, calling paint checks to distract refs., calling to the opposing player to check themselves/get out (every tournament player needs to learn to ignore those) has been going on in tournaments for over ten years. That was all happening when I played tournaments, back in the stone ages! ;) However, it has gotten more prevalent (at least what I've seen). And it's not all that hard to fix. However, not enough players want it fixed. At least, that's how I see it.

Rec. play cheating drives me crazy. It's always amazed me how I can't seem to hit anyone until someone with me gets hit and then watches the players opposing me. All to often then get hit and eliminated rather quickly. :rolleyes:

[Duzzy]

:rolleyes: I have tried to think of a way to say this nicely, and now I have decided screw it it needs said eventually. No, Im not in a good mood when I make this post... but this whole type of thread is friggin annoying.

You know what I think is hurting paintball as much as actual cheating? People who have the need to whine about what they perceive as cheating at every chance.

I'm sick of being told about the times I cheated when I didn't.

I'm sick of recballers telling me since I play tournaments I must cheat. I'm sick of being in a position where if I win I will be told I had to have cheated.

I'm sick of logging onto threads, and seeing a good portion of people who seldom play tournaments whine about the cheating within (not everyone). I'm sick of people who want to tell me every slide is a cheat... I slid it must have been to wipe :rolleyes: . Get over it... it happens... quit whining because your making it sound like it is all that happens at tournaments. Maybe its different where you live.

This is why some people have been trying to post non-whiny arguments on why cheating is not acceptable no matter where it happens.