LX Problem - Tuna, TK, Black, who ever, HELP PLEASE! :) - LONG

[Battlewear]

Hey Guys

I am putting out a call to all the Mag GODS! :)

I need some help.. I am trying to get my minimag set up in time for an upcoming tourney that is in a couple of weeks and we need to run 2 team practices before then.

So far I have gone through 3 bottles of 134ci Nitro.. and still I am stuck..

Here is a copy of the post I put in to the LX Guide.
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hey Guys

Ok, some new problems here

I am running a Minimag with a LX..

Ok here are the steps I have done

1st Step - #2 Carrier, 2 shims, Middle spring
Results - Major leaking down the barrel

2nd - 1.5 carrier, 2 shims, middle spring
Results - leaking down the barrel, not as bad

3rd - 1 carrier, 2 shims, middle spring
Results - Slight leaking down the barrel, when trigger is pressed it stops.

4th - 1 carrier, 1 shim, middle spring
Results - MORE leaking down the barrel, when trigger is pressed it stops.

5th - 1 carrier, 3 shims, middle spring
Results - very VERY little leaking down the barrel, when trigger is pressed it stops.

6th - 1 carrier, 4 shims, middle spring
Results - Exactly the same as 5th.

At this point I thought I would go down a 1/2 size in the carrier and back to 2 shims..

7th - .5 carrier, 2 shims, middle spring
Results - NO LEAKING YEAH! Oh wait, now it will only half cycle.. I can get it to fire once in a while but not all the time (1 out of 30 to 50 shots, more often the faster I fire).

8th, 9th, 10th and 11th, same as 7th except a change in number of shims - 0, 1, 3 or 4 shims..
Results - No change from 7th.

My input pressure from my HPA is at 1000 PSI. I have attempted to turn up the speed (which is almost compltely in) but I start to get leaking out the back ( I am going to be buying a new Hight Pressue Regulator Piston)

So, am I just at the point of a regulator piston change or is there something else I am missing?


Battlewear-

Ditch all of the shims.

Go to the gold spring and use that.

Use the largest carrier that doesn't leak using the SAME o-ring. Pull out the o-ring from the carrier each time and put it in the new carrier you install to test.

Hey BlackVCG

Ok, as follows

12 - Went to #1 carrier, no shims and gold spring (shortest of the 3 pack)
Results - Leaking down the barrel

13 - Went back to .5 carrier, no shims and gold spring
Results - Marker fires now, getting the slight leaking down the barrel but the anti chop only seems to be there in a minor amount now.. At this point I am not sure about sticking my finger in the breach any more LOL I stuck my squeege in breach (down the barrel) and at any thing more then a 1/4 movement of the bolt it would almost fire my squeege out of my hand..

Should I look at adding a couple of shims to delay stage 2 of the firing?

I personally would like to run the middle or longer to get a little softer responce to the ball, is this possible? I feel that at present I am still going to be getting chops with the gold spring.

---------------

I know I can get this done but it I am just not sure what steps I should be making..

Oh and 14 - I went back to middle spring (just to try it), went to the 0 carrier and 2 shims and now it is not firing at all, it gets a lot of bolt stick and at times wont return the trigger (the pin stays in until I tap the trigger then it sort of bumps out ready to go again).

I really need help guys!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! :)

[Battlewear]

Ok, reading another post I saw CaliMagFan state that for the start until it is broken in to remove all the shims..

This goes with what Black said so I will do that.. Beyond that, any other suggestions?

[CaliMagFan]

I would suggest these steps... for the most part in this order.

-get your tank to output closer to 800psi.... 1000 is waaay overkill for the classic valve that is on a minimag..

-make sure your reg seat is in good shape... if its new (or not) make sure the seat and the are around it is oiled lightly and it free of debris.

-oil your on/off assembly (which i assume is the stock classic valve piece... if not, make it such.
while you're in there oiling it, make sure all the orings are looking good, no scratches/pits.
-no LX shims to start, please.

-#2 carrier, please.

- make sure the white inner carrier oring is intact and looking good....
also, make sure the black thin outter carrier oring is in good shape.... these rarely fail, but
under some abuse they do what plastic usually does... break.

- oil the powertube oring (white inner carrier oring) and the outside...

-oil the "bolt stem" that protrudes into the powertube when the bolt is on the valve.. also... oil the outside of the power tube....

-use the shortest gold/stock spring, please.

-no barrel. to start with.

-air up the marker and shoot a few times... see if that works and go from there.... if you can get teh barrel on and have it keep shooting then its safe to use the barrel at all times (to test chrono speeds)... the only reason taht you might not be able to use the barrel that the bore of the LX bolt is slightly larger than the L7 bolt and will sometimes strike the inner diameter of the barrel... that causes probs as i bet you can imagine...

good luck

keep us posted

-kyro

[BeaverEater]

Also the longer springs do make it softer but sometimes limit your ROF. I had the red spring in my emag, and ditched it for a higher ROF

[athomas]

Replace the o-rings in and around your carrier. They could be bad. Redo your setup. Again, use no shims. Shims only adjust the point of venting and can cause the bolt to vent too soon.

Have you check the condition of your sear? If there is any wear at the tip, then it could allow the bolt to sit farther forward. This could cause the vent hole to be exposed past the carrier o-ring even while the bolt is resting. When you touch the trigger it pushes the bolt back so the hole is no longer exposed and the leaking stops.

The level 10 only lightens the impact of the bolt in the first 1/4" of travel. That is where contact with the ball is made. If you hold an object in the breach more than 1/4" from the bolt face, it will get hit with full bolt force. So, if you are testing the effectiveness of the level 10, put the squeegie against the bolt face rather than some distance away from it.

[Battlewear]

Ok, I just got my bottle refilled and here is the latest results based on suggested changes by CaliMagFan

Ok, new set of steps

1 - Changed to gold spring, #2 Carrier, no shims, same O-Ring, no barrel, every thing well oiled..
Result - HUGE leaking down the barrel.

2 - #1.5 , no shims, same O-ring, well oiled.
Result - Leaking, sound change when pressing bolt head, slight firing, mainly missing

3 - #1 carrier, no shims, O-ring, well oiled
Result - Leaking, sound change when pressing bolt head, sound change when trigger slightly depressed, Firing, but still missing some times

4 - .5 Carrier, no shims, O-ring, well oiled.
Result - Leaking stopped at first, then upon firing it started leaking again. Firing, getting bolt stick on return, also finding that there is hardly ANY (maybe 5%) anti chop (basically I have to almost press fairly hard with a squegee on the bolt head for any anti chop. Also able to hook up barrel and fire with out troubles..

At this point I had to stop, my 3 year old daughter went to bed.. I am not crazy about going to the 0 Carrier, if I am already getting Bolt stick, I am sure it will only get worse with a 0 Carrier..

I am going to replace ALL O-rings in the marker.. Just got my Minimag parts kit..

Athomas - When I was running the mid spring with 4 shims I had as much as 3/4 anti chop (bolt would go 3/4 way before it would do second stage) and was very gentle ( I would not hesitate sticking my finger in the breach, with the Gold, there is almost NO WAY I am sticking my finger in there!!)

BeaverEater - Well, being that it is a Classic Valve minimag, I dont think ROF is a big deal because it really cant keep it up any ways LOL..

Still need help getting this fixed..

As soon as it is done it is the ULT time! LOL.. Just came in the mail today along with my 15* ASA from Rogue and a Rogue Snatch Grip! :)

[jenner]

Have you replaced the powertube o ring? I sent my x valve to AGD for almost the exact same problem you described and they fixed it and are sending it back to me. They said:

"The problem ended up being defective powertube o-rings"

[Battlewear]

Have you replaced the powertube o ring? I sent my x valve to AGD for almost the exact same problem you described and they fixed it and are sending it back to me. They said:

"The problem ended up being defective powertube o-rings"

To be honest, I was thinking about the O-Ring today..

I think I am going to try changing it and see what happens..

[FreakBaller12]

is your velocity up?
I've done this countless times and boy do I feel stupid when that's the reason.
Sometimes if the velocity is way too low it wont cycle, I think bolt stick, WRONG
When I begin to turnt it up it will leak down the barrel and it will get to a point and it will make that ping noise or w/e that you can tell the gun is pressured up and working.

Try that.

[CaliMagFan]

i found this odd after playing last week..

when i got my RT back in januarry of this year i used the carrier that AGD put in there untill i had to change it after break in... now i kind of remember this happening, but i reaffirmed it the other day. it seems that you have to "shoot in" a new carrier.... here is what i did... i was getting the feeling that i might have been using a carrier that was half size too small... just because the bolt has a fair amount of resistance when i slide it on the PT by hand.... anyhow, i changed the carrier up a whole size to the #3... this caused a massive leak, didnt seem that it was small enough.... so i then changed to the 2.5... it again started to leak.... but a bit less.. so i figured that i was already at teh optimum carrier size with the 2.0 that i've been using for months and months.....

when i put the 2.0 carrier back in the marker and gassed it up i got a big time barrel leak... i was like WTF????.... well then i just decided to fire a bunch of shots into a blanket to see if i could change have anything set into place through shooting.... low and behold... after a few shots i heard the marker really lock up nice and tight like all the orings had set in very well... no leaks whatsoever... so, i'm basiccaly back to the way my marker was before i started chasing the wild goose by going and goofing with my *working* setup....

my suggestion to you is to put that 2.0 or 1.5 carrier in there and just make sure its not an issue of you acting too fast.... i know many times when i used to work on my marker i would run into trouble after just gassing it up and decide "wrong size/# _______"... because it would mess up i'd react way too fast to the issue and immediately degas and throw a different peice in there only to have the same thing happen....

so, cover the feed neck and the front of the body (using no barrel) with a blanket and shoot a few.... that way its quieter and the back pressure seems to help set things in the right place....

well sorry about the long post.... but i hope that helps..

-kyro

[Battlewear]

is your velocity up?
I've done this countless times and boy do I feel stupid when that's the reason.
Sometimes if the velocity is way too low it wont cycle, I think bolt stick, WRONG
When I begin to turnt it up it will leak down the barrel and it will get to a point and it will make that ping noise or w/e that you can tell the gun is pressured up and working.

Try that.

Oh yea, the pressure is up..

So much so that if I turn it up to far it leaks out the back..

I am thinking I am going to have to park the LX until I can get the new High Pressure piston..

[Battlewear]

i found this odd after playing last week..

when i got my RT back in januarry of this year i used the carrier that AGD put in there untill i had to change it after break in... now i kind of remember this happening, but i reaffirmed it the other day. it seems that you have to "shoot in" a new carrier.... here is what i did... i was getting the feeling that i might have been using a carrier that was half size too small... just because the bolt has a fair amount of resistance when i slide it on the PT by hand.... anyhow, i changed the carrier up a whole size to the #3... this caused a massive leak, didnt seem that it was small enough.... so i then changed to the 2.5... it again started to leak.... but a bit less.. so i figured that i was already at teh optimum carrier size with the 2.0 that i've been using for months and months.....

when i put the 2.0 carrier back in the marker and gassed it up i got a big time barrel leak... i was like WTF????.... well then i just decided to fire a bunch of shots into a blanket to see if i could change have anything set into place through shooting.... low and behold... after a few shots i heard the marker really lock up nice and tight like all the orings had set in very well... no leaks whatsoever... so, i'm basiccaly back to the way my marker was before i started chasing the wild goose by going and goofing with my *working* setup....

my suggestion to you is to put that 2.0 or 1.5 carrier in there and just make sure its not an issue of you acting too fast.... i know many times when i used to work on my marker i would run into trouble after just gassing it up and decide "wrong size/# _______"... because it would mess up i'd react way too fast to the issue and immediately degas and throw a different peice in there only to have the same thing happen....

so, cover the feed neck and the front of the body (using no barrel) with a blanket and shoot a few.... that way its quieter and the back pressure seems to help set things in the right place....

well sorry about the long post.... but i hope that helps..

-kyro

Hey Kyro

I'll give that a shot and see what happens..

This is my question ( mainly to the Real AGD Guys!), why is it that most people seem to be down around Carrier 1 to 2 and they there is a Carrier 5??? Whats up with that? Is there that much of a difference in the shaft of the bolt or is it the O-Rings that get that much of a difference? (I am guessing this is how it works - The bolts and carriers are made with very close tollerances, but the O-rings are the part that can change.. As such, they make carriers with different sized openings for those O rings and if it is a smaller carrier it sort of SQUISHES it in place making it a tighter fit on the shaft, and if it is a larger carrier then it is looser.. Does this sound right?)

I am going to try a crap load of stuff this weekend.. Just wish it wasnt a hour drive to get HPA :( ... All I can say is thank god I am running a 134 CI now instead of my puny 47 LOL!!!

I have also said that if I dont get this LX running by Sunday night, it is coming out Monday and I am going to work on my ULT. I need to get something working in time for my tourney on the 21st..

STARTING TO STRESS NOW! LOL

Hey I also had another though.. Maybe not a good one, one I dont know about trying..

I am trying to understand how each part works,
IE. the spring - My understanding is the longer the spring the gentler it is on the paint because the resistance against the bolt pushing is stronger there for it takes less pressure to make it return. But this does have some effect in slowing down the ROF in comparrison to the shorter springs.

The Carrier is to get the correct fit around the shaft of the bolt by squeezing the O ring down to size with the shaft (as written above).

The white O ring stopper at the bottem is just so that the O ring in the carrier doesnt go through into the air chamber some how when the bolt returns to its stock placement.

Now the Shims are a bit of a mystry to me.. I really dont understand them.. The concept that if I get it is " the more shims you have the longer it takes for the 2nd step in firing to fire".. Is that correct? Because after looking at the ACTION picturesof how the bolt fires on the AGD web site it almost seems wrong by placing the shims on the back side (closest to the power tube tip) then on the front side (closest to the air chamber).
My thought is, if you where to put in 1 or 2 shims on top of the 1st white flat O ring, then the carrier then the tip, wouldnt that cause more of a delay in the firing then putting the shims after the carrier?? I understand that this may not work, might not be best and is not suggested, but it is just a thought process I had last night trying to figure this whole freaking thing out..

Tom Kaye.. I pray your out there, or one of your good guys can maybe explain this or lend me a bit of a hand.. I really want to get this working..

OH one last thing.. I am now trying to read through ALL 39 pages of the LX guide (I am up to page 11) and one the first page (about # 19 or 20) there was a post about a guy having a slight leak except when he puts slight pressure on the trigger.. Tom responded to tighten the Field strip screw.. I am going to try this, because back some LONG time ago I had a set up I thought was BEAUTIFUL! Mid spring, #1 carrier, 4 shims, it was soft on the finger, rapid fired and only had the slightest hiss down the barrel until I put slight pressure on the trigger.... Has any one else tried this Tightening the Field strip screw and was it a success??

[AGDlover]

over night it to tuna

[athomas]

..., why is it that most people seem to be down around Carrier 1 to 2 and they there is a Carrier 5???

Now the Shims are a bit of a mystry to me.. I really dont understand them..


The carrier size goes up to 3 not 5. Most find that they use a 1.5 or 2.0. A few are outside those numbers which is why there are others available.

The shims go between the powertube tip and the carrier. They push the carrier o-ring farther back on the bolt piston. This means, with more shims, the bolt will vent sooner in the bolt cycle if it hits an obstruction in the breach. Too many shims will cause constant leaking.

[Battlewear]

The carrier size goes up to 3 not 5. Most find that they use a 1.5 or 2.0. A few are outside those numbers which is why there are others available.

The shims go between the powertube tip and the carrier. They push the carrier o-ring farther back on the bolt piston. This means, with more shims, the bolt will vent sooner in the bolt cycle if it hits an obstruction in the breach. Too many shims will cause constant leaking.

Hey Athomas

Ok, I was mistaken about the carriers.. I dont have a 5 Carrier, but I DO have a 4 carrier and a 3.5 Carrier.. Any ways..

As for Shims.. THAT is the best answer I have heard yet! and that totally make sense now!!! Little odd though.. When I was tuning my marker before with the #1 and 2 shims med spring it had a lot of leaking, then I went to 3 and 4 shims and the leaking was drasticly reduced (at the time I was basically trying different things to see how it would react)..

As of Last night, My level 10 has been pulled out and my ULT installed.. The ULT seems to be working fine, will give it a try tomorrow during practice then Wednesday I will try reinstalling my LX.. If it works great, if not it comes out for my tourney..

[athomas]

If you are still getting leaking with a small carrier and are experiencing bolt stick, even with the short spring and lots of pressure (velocity turned up), then its possible your sear is worn at the tip. Check it carefully. Replace it if it shows signs of wear. If the sear tip is worn, it can cause the bolt to sit farther forward than normal, which would cause constant leaking out the bolt stem vent hole.

[darrickws]

AGD had a problem with a batch of level 10 o-rings. My buddy got a BRAND NEW X-nalve with level 10 installed. It did all of what you are saying. After hours and hours of trying. I pulled an new oring out of one of my level 10 kits, AND....it worked perfect! Both the orings in his kit were too big for some reason! Once I used the oring from my kit, 2 shims and the 1.5 carrier...no problems!