classic valve recharge?

[phelix]

whats the recharge rate for 68automag classic valves?

[Dayspring]

The valve will top out around 16bps and then start getting shootdown.

[phelix]

then why is ult not recommended with classic valves? 16 bps is pretty damn fast, it's not too easy to beat that even when walking an electro trigger, let alone fanning/walking a light mech trigger

[Dayspring]

That's because of the pressures being used inside the valve and how the air is routed.

In a classic valve, the on/off pin gets regulated air @ ~450psi. The RT systems get full incoming tank pressure. (Not regulated by the internal reg.) so that could be 800-1100psi.

The ULT works on a stepped piston design. The same reason that you get a reduced trigger pull is the same reason you get reduced return force. Reducing the force of 800+psi isn't bad. Reducing 450, however, is.

[mag88888]

it says in ule rt custom manual that the x valve is 5 times as fast as the classic valve.

[phelix]

so what will the negative effects of putting ult on a classic valve be?

[Dayspring]

Increased possibility of short stroking, double feeding, or chuffing a ball halfway down the barrel and then the next ball shooting it.

Some people get them to work. Others don't. AGD doesn't recommend it. Use at your own risk.

[warbeak2099]

Now what about the Centerflag on/off? When using that on a mech classic mag will it have the same effect? Or does it reduce the force required to close the on/off in a different way?

[Dayspring]

The centerflag on/off is nothing more than a glorified RT on/off assbmly & pin.

[phelix]

so pretty much, as long as i'm using the classic valve, i'm stuck with tough trigger pull? fanning is all right with me, but walking would be so much better :cry:

[Dayspring]

You're not going to walk a mechanical trigger... You'd need the ULT, trigger stops and practice.

(Not unless it's the hAir trigger.)

[the electrician]

you can make the ULT work in a classic, but you have to know what you're doing.

I've had excellent success so far, with installing them in classic valves.

your sear should be in good condition, if not new. you need to shim the hell out of the ULT on/off. get some extra lvl 10 shims and use them.

I also suggest using a buna-n o-ring on the top of the on/off. they are sofetr and let the pin move easier.

you have to use HPA and it wouldn't hust to give it 1000 psi input. minimum 800 psi

[Asym]

Dayspring, you said the classic dump chamber runs @450 and the RT runs @input of the tank "Not regulated by the internal reg". So how do you change velocity on a RT? If the internal reg doesn't regulate the incoming pressure the only way to adjust velocity would be to adjust the size of the dump chamber if you don't adjust the pressure with the reg.

Just curious about how you explained the differences on the classic and RT, I always thought the difference was the internal reg recharged faster on the newer RT valve. Because of the faster recharge you get a faster flow of air moving through on/off and that was the reason the ULT worked fine on the RT style. On the classic it has a slower recharge and less air flows through the on/off but to the same pressure as the RT, since it has that slower flow it sometimes doesn't have the punch to reset the ULT, kind of like a hammer and a nail. You exert 5lbs of force and the momentum drives a nail in, you put 5lbs or more after the hammer is resting on the nail already it won't drive it.

Sorry for the length but just want to understand how the RT is different. Also I do have a classic with ULT and I do have problems on occasion with it not reseting, almost have it worked out though just haven't had the time to finnish it. BTW I'm using CO2 and a quad oring in the ULT.

[phelix]

You're not going to walk a mechanical trigger... You'd need the ULT, trigger stops and practice.

(Not unless it's the hAir trigger.)

i meant walking a ult trigger. thanks for the info everyone, i think i'm gonna hold back on getting ult for a while, i've got enough work cut out for me with lvl10 as it is, i dont wanna have to tune two things, especially since one of them might not work.

[autockr01]

I just got my ULT today and I put it on my classic valve. (I'm actually tuning it as we speak) On a side note, i also have a level 10 on my classic valve as well. The ULT kit only comes with like 5 shims, which apparently arent enough. I had 2 shims left over from my level 10 kit so i stuck those on the ult also. So now i have 7 shims in my ult and it is firing a little more reliably. Unfortunately, i am still getting some bolt stick, and unfortunately im out of shims. Other than the bolt stick, this gun rocks!! No more chopping, and a lighter trigger... AWESOME. I know that the ult is not suggested for use with a classic valve mainly because of inadequate trigger return pressure. BUT, does anyone have any advice or tips so i can decrease the stick? ANy way i can tune my ult or lvl10 so the bolt stick will go away?