NPPL and NO MAGS!

[SanDiegoMag]

This weekend in San Diego (where I live) the NPPL super 7 series was in town.
Not once did I hear the word "Automag" spoken from anyone's mouth but mine.

I know the company isn't doing much right now, but I am DISAPPOINTED at the lack of representation there and in California in general.

Just my random thoughts about the representation of automags and the lack thereof.

Automags :headbang: ROCK

-Paul

[frop]

Well, that's The Way of The Mag.

[RingOfScale]

ok all the posts about "WHY ARNT AUTOMAGS MORE POPULAR ???" are actually getting a bit annoying .... umm .... so yeah .... can we stop complaining about it and just accept the fact that no one else realises how uber we are ?

[SanDiegoMag]

When Qloader and the community college paintball club have booths and Automags dont, it says something. They arent popular either

I know they arent popular, dont flame.

[RingOfScale]

*shrug*

if the hair trigger ever gets released maybe our problem will be solved !!!

(btw, so whatever happened with the hair ? i've been out of the loop for a few months )

[WARPED1]

Yall got to face it. Mags are just NOT going to be popular in the tournament scene. We know they're fast and reliable, but they just can't keep up with the guns like Intimidators, though they have an unfair advantage, having cheater boards and such.

[SanDiegoMag]

on the hAir triger, PTP is claiming copywirte...

people complin, yadda yadda, same ol' stuff.

and then they wonder how they "stole" the plans.

its all availiable in AO threads, all of it

[Evil1]

Yall got to face it. Mags are just NOT going to be popular in the tournament scene. We know they're fast and reliable, but they just can't keep up with the guns like Intimidators, though they have an unfair advantage, having cheater boards and such.

I thought that a frenzied alias passed the test a while back. The test where the robot or computer or whatever is actually hooked to the gun and monitors if it is bouncing or not.

[-=Squid=-]

though they have an unfair advantage, having cheater boards and such.
Oh ya, Smart Parts guns don't have cheater boards... INSTALLED FROM THE FACTORY.

Leave your crap out of here.

- Goro

[Dayspring]

AGD is focusing towards scenario ball. I don't think that the NPPL counts as a scenario event.

[magman007]

no offence to any one, but mags just arent what they were. for te past few years, everyone has ben saying this is what will bring mags into the light. first off was the x-mag. everyone thought, mag, level 10, and ace, light weight etc etc is the perfect combo. and it pretty much was, did it make mags more popular? NO. how about level 10? decreased efficiency, not good, and not what the general public wants. again not good. Ule mods, lightened mags even further, still didnt revolutionize the mag. How about the hair? i still doubt it will revolutionize mags. maybe here on ao, but not in the public eye.

I have felt the hair, and it truely is amazing for a mech to have that pull, but John Q public, isnt going to go dumping their 1000+lectro for a mech mag. they just arent. i have shot cockers with lighter triggers than the hair, and when was the last time you saw a mech cocker really rocking the tourny scene? 2001.

Face it guys, the mag just isnt what it used to be. back in 96 the mag and cocker dominated the tourny scene, but from then on, no one has evenr eally used them, until the jax warriors got on their winning streak. where are the warriors now? who knows! when was the last time you really heard a damn thing about em? never.

I wont take any thing away from the kids, they did really well before agd dropped em, and i give em props, but they didnt hit the big time big enough to really be noticed. all any one seems to care about is what ______ team is shooting, and the marker that has the lightest trigger, the easiest ways to get the bounce( or get rid of, or cheat with) with___ marker.

Look, i used to be the biggest mag fanboy, but now, im all about the matrix. the mag like design is a plus, but the awesome triggers on the dm4 and dm5, the lightened body, the awesome performance, the no chop bolt pressure, and the ace ontop of that, not to mention that it can be tailored to my needs even more than my sfl e-mag, makes me gleem with joy.


Guys, come on, the mags are still great, but agd has realized, until the mag name goes away, that there really is no market in the tourny scene for mags any more. no one wants em, they still have the negative connotation that they once had, despite the developments made to improve em, and everone still says EWWW a mag? my impy runs circles around it, or my timmy pwns it, etc etc. and in my general opinion, they are correct. an impy ruins a mech mag, and in some cases, a well tuned e-mag. sorry guys, but i feel it is the truth

[Bolter]

We all use X mags, and we ranked 18th Pro last year in the Millenium Series.

[magman007]

and that is nothing against you, but do you really attribute that to the marker? or to exceptional playing skills? also what trends in europe have really made it here to the US?

[yakitori]

magman, do you see this glass of water as half empty or half full? Geez, everything you typed is pessimistic, towards mags, and kinda toward europe. And btw, lots of trends have made it from europe to the states, it just takes a few years to get here. (Im referring to dress/fashion) :p

anyway, doesnt matter what gun you use. Id take my emag over any impy anyday, but thats me. Serves me well, never chops. I see guys w/ impys w/ vision, and other guns w/ vision for that matter still chopping. Its kinda a contradiction, you discuss the bad aspects of mags and say that other guns are better in some ways (which is fine), then you hint that it is skill and not attributing sucess to your gun.

Emags are plenty fast. 20bps cap and I can get mine up to about 16 and I have slow fingers. and it is consistent too. What more do you need to eliminate ppl w/.

[magmonkey]

"and that is nothing against you, but do you really attribute that to the marker?"

look at the fanboys, dynasty wins with a shocker so eveyone has to run out and buy one

because dynasty won with them

the same COULD be atributed to mags again


just bacuse AGD has moved to sceniaro play does not mean that the emags are not a great

marker, I would not trade mine for ANY marker, possibly and TWO MARKERS out there

it has always worked for me NEVER let me down, fast as sin, while I am on that subject

the marker is capped at 20 bps and its slow? can you pull 20 bps, I can't ..... oh wait no one

can sooooo if you have a marker that is faster and it is capped at say 28 or uncapped can

you pull 28 on it,................. nope unless........... do you think that.............. naw a


paintball manufacturing company wouldn't build a marker against the rulse of avaer major

tournament league and the ASTM standard. just to give players an un needed unfair

advantage.

[MindJob]

Unfortunatley for AGD and mags, the market is the driving force here... and what I don't understand is why the public is being denied what it wants. Obviously, electro guns with these enhancements are what the paying public is buying. THe fact that there is no such board for e/x-mags is the reason why they never really caught on. Not that they arent great guns, and no, I wouldnt give up my X-mag for anything out on the market. However, it would be nice to have some of the features that the other guns have. If you want to call them 'cheater boards', then fine, but the bottom line is that this is where the market moved to, and having an marker without them is PERCIEVED to be a disadvantage.

AGD was slow to the market with an electro marker, and it was a mistake. Legal issues aside, I would like to see them do something in the future that would help them gain back market share and get back to the top where they belong.

Personallly, I wish I had one of those ramp boards for my gun, just so I can shut people up.

[yakitori]

I just wish that AGD would release a better software update. BTW, you can get a predator II board installed in your emag w/ eyes for 350

[DiRTyBuNNy]

no offence to any one, but mags just arent what they were. for te past few years, everyone has ben saying this is what will bring mags into the light. first off was the x-mag. everyone thought, mag, level 10, and ace, light weight etc etc is the perfect combo. and it pretty much was, did it make mags more popular? NO. how about level 10? decreased efficiency, not good, and not what the general public wants. again not good. Ule mods, lightened mags even further, still didnt revolutionize the mag. How about the hair? i still doubt it will revolutionize mags. maybe here on ao, but not in the public eye.

I have felt the hair, and it truely is amazing for a mech to have that pull, but John Q public, isnt going to go dumping their 1000+lectro for a mech mag. they just arent. i have shot cockers with lighter triggers than the hair, and when was the last time you saw a mech cocker really rocking the tourny scene? 2001.

Face it guys, the mag just isnt what it used to be. back in 96 the mag and cocker dominated the tourny scene, but from then on, no one has evenr eally used them, until the jax warriors got on their winning streak. where are the warriors now? who knows! when was the last time you really heard a damn thing about em? never.

I wont take any thing away from the kids, they did really well before agd dropped em, and i give em props, but they didnt hit the big time big enough to really be noticed. all any one seems to care about is what ______ team is shooting, and the marker that has the lightest trigger, the easiest ways to get the bounce( or get rid of, or cheat with) with___ marker.

Look, i used to be the biggest mag fanboy, but now, im all about the matrix. the mag like design is a plus, but the awesome triggers on the dm4 and dm5, the lightened body, the awesome performance, the no chop bolt pressure, and the ace ontop of that, not to mention that it can be tailored to my needs even more than my sfl e-mag, makes me gleem with joy.


Guys, come on, the mags are still great, but agd has realized, until the mag name goes away, that there really is no market in the tourny scene for mags any more. no one wants em, they still have the negative connotation that they once had, despite the developments made to improve em, and everone still says EWWW a mag? my impy runs circles around it, or my timmy pwns it, etc etc. and in my general opinion, they are correct. an impy ruins a mech mag, and in some cases, a well tuned e-mag. sorry guys, but i feel it is the truth

Wasn't I saying something like this two years ago only to get booed and ridiculed by everyone on here?

[DiRTyBuNNy]

This weekend in San Diego (where I live) the NPPL super 7 series was in town.
Not once did I hear the word "Automag" spoken from anyone's mouth but mine.

I know the company isn't doing much right now, but I am DISAPPOINTED at the lack of representation there and in California in general.

Just my random thoughts about the representation of automags and the lack thereof.

Automags :headbang: ROCK

-Paul

umm...well...no hard feelings man...but if you put $0 into public relations...you're going to get $0 worth of publicity out of it...AGD has foresaken California since the mid 90's..and well...look where we are...

[adt501]

Face it guys, the mag just isnt what it used to be. back in 96 the mag and cocker dominated the tourny scene, but from then on, no one has evenr eally used them, until the jax warriors got on their winning streak. where are the warriors now? who knows! when was the last time you really heard a damn thing about em? never - magman007


Jax Warriors still play, infact they play pro x ball. Are they doing well? No.....but guess what they shoot now? E-Blade Cockers. Infact, the team changed its name to Jacksonville WORRiors, and they did this in 2002. Several players left because they were loyal to the mag. I've met a few of those guys (that left). Worr Games simple offered more money/sponsorship/whatever.

Everyone has to feed the monkey. Who cares what the pros shoot, they are shooting whatever they are shooting because someone gave it to them. Why is it people dont understand this?

If you feel mags are old, or whatever, and arent tourny grade markers, go buy something else. No ones putting a gun to your head (pun intended).

Hey, guess what guys? If a gun can shoot a paintball, then it is tourny grade, because uber speed and hawt milling really dosent win games, contrary to popular belief. A friend of mine, who at one time played on teams such as Image and Aftershock, and who could shoot like no other, told me that whatever gun you have to master it, be it a matrix or slingshot. Whatever could shoot paint. He said if you could fire a gun at the ground and hit a broken paintball in the ground everytime, then the gun was accurate enough to win games.

That guy taught me to snapshoot, and I thank him everytime I see him, because being able to properly snapshoot gives me the ability to take out the little kids that believe in hype and spend fifteen hundred on some new bolt-over-ram design that the companies keep crapping out every six months with new milling and color options.

You know that old saying, its the player not the gun? No matter how many times people say it, it seems no one listens to it. I guess some people are ether soft spoken or some people cant hear. Oh well :rolleyes:

[Dayspring]

No, it was because you were an arsehat...


Wasn't I saying something like this two years ago only to get booed and ridiculed by everyone on here?

[CrimsonGhost]

Popularity is a fickle thing aint it?

Nuff said.

:cheers:

[Kaiser Bob]

The best way for AGD to jump back into mass popularity would be to stay off the radar for a while, make something that at least looks a little different (cover the valve with a sticker or something :P) and then put the new guns in the hands of a team on the rise, then everyone would be like, whoa xxx is playing with some sick new gats from this new company, AGD! :rofl:

[adt501]

^^^ Exactly

The mass buying public is stupid

Going full bore with scenario equipment is a really smart move on AGDs part, do to the high level of profit and the amount of players that play scenario

Its so hard to build and sell equipment for tourny players, because there is high competition, misconceptions from the buying public, and the fact that everything has been made at least three times already, therefore there is nothing new under the sun, and R+D for new technologie is so expensive.

AGD has so much going for it, and most people dont even realize what AGD has done for paintball as we know it. Yes, in the mid 90s AGD was the pinnacle of technology, and had something like the LV 10 been out then, it would be a whole different world now. But you see, AGD had the unfortunant posistion of being one of the first companies to really make competitive equipment, and when your the first one, all your mistakes are your own, and others can build on what you made without your mistakes. Get the picture?

Theres a lot of mis conceptions about AGD (mags chop, etc). Right now is not a good time to bring out a new electro or whatever it is people want from Airgun, because the market is not good for it. Look at all the markers coming out now, its swamped. Choices are good, but remember, R+D costs so much money, so alot of these guns are identical to each other, and the prices are too high

Look at Eclipse. Granted, its a company renowned for an excellent product, and it has a new gun out, and guess what? Its just like every timmy/bushy/imp whatever the hell. Im not bashing the gun (im sure its a well built gun) but come on, theres enough of those out now.

If AGD bides its time and develops a brand new gun, new design and everything, dosent use the word mag, whatever whatever, and then unleashes the gun on an unsuspecting audience, markets it well (not AGDs strong point :rolleyes: ).....people forget easily, and may be willing to buy from AGD again.

Until that time, dont expect AGD to do anything but sell tac ones and rt pros. They've even said themselves thats what they're gonna do for awhile

[drewrw]

i dont understand AGD makes the fastest mech gun in the world, so why are you guys arguing over what they should do next. THEY have ALREADY done it...........electo----e or x mag what more can i say.... AGD rules.... anybody who says otherwise i would love to play them with my RT ULE custom............... :bounce:

[Rhinopkc]

Why are you worried about whether AGD is popular or not? If you like AGD guns, buy AGD guns. You're as bad as the kids who have to have the gun of the month because they saw _______ team using it. Why care about AGD's marketing? You don't own the business, and you have no idea what their business plan is, it shouldn't matter to anyone, as long as they produce a product that you like, buy it. Don't be a sheep, and don't worry about what the other sheep are doing, do your own thing and be original. :cheers:

[MindJob]

I just wish that AGD would release a better software update. BTW, you can get a predator II board installed in your emag w/ eyes for 350

Im actually considering it, minus the eyes. The ACE works just fine IMO. $350 is a steep price for some soldering. Im considering doing it myself or getting a hold of Tunaman and see what he wants to wire it for me.

[magman007]

No, it was because you were an arsehat...


nick, no offence, but maybe it was comments like that that turned him into an arsehat?

[rathbaster]

I played 6 scenarios and 2 big games this year. At all of the events there were a LOT of people carrying mags. A recent poll about favorite scenario guns placed mags near the top of the list (can't remember the site I saw that on...)

I picked up a mag only a few weeks ago to try out as a scenario gun (its the only time I use a semi) and was favorably impressed this past weekend at a 7 hour scenario.

Scenario players like myself are not concerned with BPS, so long as its "plenty fast". I'm more concerned with reliability, durability and endurance (for those 26-48 hours games).

I also don't want to haul the kitchen sink to the field with me, particularly on those far-from-home games in other states where I'm also packing cloths, food and other things. Last weekend I took 1 allen wrench, some spare tank o-rings and a few spare elbows. That was it. My cocker required a pile of spare parts "just in case" as well as far more tools just to field strip it and I am always hesitant to fiddle with the cocker overnight during long games or just before the weekend of a big event...I've learned the hard way on that one.

One of my friends is now a Tac One user and is favorably impressed. Several other friends looked at it and declared that they also needed one for scenarios in the future.

-Rath

[Kaiser Bob]

Why are you worried about whether AGD is popular or not? If you like AGD guns, buy AGD guns. You're as bad as the kids who have to have the gun of the month because they saw _______ team using it. Why care about AGD's marketing? You don't own the business, and you have no idea what their business plan is, it shouldn't matter to anyone, as long as they produce a product that you like, buy it. Don't be a sheep, and don't worry about what the other sheep are doing, do your own thing and be original. :cheers:

I think most people's concern here isn't that they want the mag they have to be :cool: but more along the lines of if AGD's product line become so far off the radar that noone buys them new, and nothing is done about it then there might not be an AGD or an AO to hang out at in the future.

[scpaintballer01]

lets just be greedy while we still have our little niche that nobody notices. Their loss is our gain.

[felony]

who cares?

[Magaman]

What’s with all the boo-hoo’s and the whining? Oh AGD isn’t Representing in Cali and I can’t be cool the other guys with the Hot Pink markers and the Purple Silk with Gold Lined Gear... Blah, Blah, Blah...

First off, if you haven’t bought and tweaked the X-Mag with the warp and a sweet hopper, then don’t start complaining about how many BPS the other guys are shooting... Most of those guns have $1700.00+ in just the marker to make them shoot what there shooting and like other said, someone gave the guns to them to play with... Most of the companies that are giving these guns and spending the money Representing are all babies when It comes to Paintball anyhow... AGD has been on Top for the longest time and if it weren’t for most of AGD’s early design’s (Including HPA) these guys wouldn’t be selling what they got in the first place...

For those who are easily swayed by the mind controlling Paintball Gun Stores, Big Tourney Sponsorships, and Rich Never going to work a day in there life to pay for there own paintball kids... I understand, its hard to determine what works great and you need guidance from the more popular more cool people. The weak minded always fall... It reminds me from back in highschool... You guys are the kids that would easily turn there back on there oldest friends if it meant fitting in with the rest of the wanna-be loosers...

The funny thing is at anytime, some little person can come up with a new and interesting idea that will put all of the markers of today to shame, then be outdone the next day by another person... AGD will be ontop again. Until then, Do you own Representing and stop following crowds...

Oh yeah, You should also try and use some of the products that the other AOers, such as CoolHand, Luke, Tuna, RogueFactor, GA Devil, Just to name a few... The best part about ADG is they allow anyone to make upgrades for there markers and they even sell the parts to start you on your way...

Don’t give up on ADG just because someone might not think its cool at the moment... Otherwise, go get a different marker and be happy, just don’t come here and ***** about “Our Popularity...” :cheers:

[penguinpunk555]

Mags are hyped.

[VFX_Fenix]

I dunno, I was at the Commander's Cup and I did see one piece of AGD stuff. At the CSG booth they had a couple Automag Jerseys from the AO. That was kinda cool, though I certainly would have liked to see Tom kickin' around, Budd Orr was there gosh dernit. ;)

Edit: Oh yeah, and Tom, it's been like 13 years man, can we have a new platform please? Like waht, I don't know, it's always been AGD's thing to think outside the box, just... you know... a little something different besides refining the same block of Stainless into the lovely piece of machinery that it is today?

[Bolter]

and that is nothing against you, but do you really attribute that to the marker? or to exceptional playing skills? also what trends in europe have really made it here to the US?

ok not meaning to sound all flamy, but we work very hard at our game, and the Xmag has proved to us that it is a contender. We used warps and teams loathed us. Now we use Halo fed centre feeds and the sheer firepower enables us to control certain areas and aspects of the game. I have not been up against a "legal" gun yet that is as fast and doesn't chop paint like my X. It helps me no end. So yes the gun does help alot. Alot!

What trends in Europe have made it to the states? Well lets see now......

the Angel marker - made in England
the E-blade - made in England
the Timmy - Manike/NPS - English/US combination (Manike put me right if Im not)
the Xmag - Manike I believe helped with this also - AGDEurope/John Sosta - England

wait what else is there......

Sup-Airball - Laurent Hamet (sp :p ) - France

and Im sure there are more.

[B.A.M.]

i dont really care if people dont except mags but at my field people actually respect and many love them. I always have people saying that they love my mag better that there's. I even once had some guy with a timmy ask me to use my mag :wow: and he said he loved it and might get one for a back up. but i think my situation is very rare

[magman007]

ok not meaning to sound all flamy, but we work very hard at our game, and the Xmag has proved to us that it is a contender. We used warps and teams loathed us. Now we use Halo fed centre feeds and the sheer firepower enables us to control certain areas and aspects of the game. I have not been up against a "legal" gun yet that is as fast and doesn't chop paint like my X. It helps me no end. So yes the gun does help alot. Alot!

What trends in Europe have made it to the states? Well lets see now......

the Angel marker - made in England
the E-blade - made in England
the Timmy - Manike/NPS - English/US combination (Manike put me right if Im not)
the Xmag - Manike I believe helped with this also - AGDEurope/John Sosta - England

wait what else is there......

Sup-Airball - Laurent Hamet (sp :p ) - France

and Im sure there are more.


ok, touchet with the supairball :) but, if you notice, all of the current trends really come from the west coast. the style, etc etc. but that is a different discussion completely.

have you ever shot a dm4? or even an old matrix with eyes? they chop just as little as my sfl did, and i had that lvl 10 set up amazingly.

i wasnt aware that the x-mag helped you all so much and im glad it has, but in all honesty, people are more comfortable playing with what is out now, rof is easier to achieve etc etc.

[adt501]

the E-blade - made in England - the e blade may be cool, but certainly not the first cocker e grip

the Xmag - Manike I believe helped with this also - AGDEurope/John Sosta - England - as nice as the x-mags are, they are simply cut up e mags with an eye that few people actually use

the Timmy - Manike/NPS - English/US combination (Manike put me right if Im not) - Bob Longs invention, not Manikes, not putting down Manike in any way

the Angel marker - made in England - ok, ill give you that one


Sup-Airball - Laurent Hamet (sp ) - France - ok, ill give you that one too

except.....................we taught europeans how to PLAY paintball...........and you guys are still trying to learn it :cheers:

[AGDlover]

AGD is focusing towards scenario ball. I don't think that the NPPL counts as a scenario event.


but as far as most members on this fourm goes were not all crazy about scenario ball. and honnestly about the hair its just going to be another upgrade and people on here think its going to solve all the "mags suck" problems but its not. people will go "hey thats cool" but will still think the same way its not going to change anything as far as turny ball your all forgeting 96% are using higher end electros. and a military desighn put on a paintball gun honnestly wont be that special. just my 2cents

[tony3]

None of those things you listed are trends, they are products, that happened to be developed in Europe. Thats like saying since nike shoes are made in china, we got the trend of nike shoes from china. Doesn't make any sense.

The whole, oh gosh, we need to drop the mag name is the stupidest idea ever. You make a good gun, put it in the hands of good teams, sponsors people, advertise a lot. Show up to major tournies in big trailers and tents. You can have a popular gun. Look at ICD they adapted to the market to keep up, AGD though did not. If agd made a good gun which they are very capable of, they would be popular. I don't think Tom really wants all that though, I think he wants to keep the company on the smaller side. Just my thought.

[Bolter]

None of those things you listed are trends, they are products, that happened to be developed in Europe. Thats like saying since nike shoes are made in china, we got the trend of nike shoes from china. Doesn't make any sense.




they are trends. The angel was the first e gun, i dont care what smart parts say. That was a major new trend in paintball.

Sup-air was a major turning point in paintball also, so I consider that a trend you guys (and the whole of paintball for that matter) have picked up on.

The whole Nike shoes in China thing was a bad analogy Im afraid. The Angel, E-blade, Xmag and Supair were all designed in the countries they are made in. They are products that are now imported to most paintballing nations. Nike designs in US, then produces in China, completely different. So by your post you mean that the Angel is a US product seeing as the vast majority of Angel users are US?

[cognomen]

If AGD wants to re-establish themselves in the tourney scene, then they're going to have to market a product that appeals to the tourney scene whether or not one considers it a "trend." The sport is evolving, and in order for a company to survive, it has to evolve with the demands of the market. I don't mind the "Mag" name, just as long as AGD's customer service doesn't diminish as their popularity has. And by all means, AGD should not shy away from the "Mag" name if they were ever to re-gain that popularity. It's just a matter of further R&D and good marketing, as well as intelligent and diligent lawyers.

Many complaints that I hear about Mags are that they're not gas efficient, not fast enough, not upgradeable, or just out-dated. There may be some validity to the issue of gas inefficiency, depending on who you're talking to, but other than that I love my X-Mag and the way it performs...and it's stylish too ;) .

At the Commander's Cup, I saw one player move up to the 50 and had a great angle on 2 opponents but his gun jammed for whatever reason and wasn't able to take them out. Eventually, he was taken out as he kept banging his gun to get it to operate. Now, if his problem was electrically, then I would've just switched my X-Mag to mechanical mode and kept on playing. Other people one maintain this stigma with Mags are amazed to hear that I can switch to mechanical mode in the middle of a game and keep on playing. Or better yet, just play in hybrid mode and not really notice that the electronics have failed. What other top tourney gun can do this?

[magman007]

im affraid he is right, they are products, not trends. a trend would be like the fake gucci headbands etc etc. most of which the west coast sets, and everyone else follows because its cool. sup air i will give to you, it was invented, and now everyone uses it. that is about it

[hobbesTZ]

If 'mags didn't sell AGD wouldn't exist anymore. The tournament scene isn't the biggest part of paintball. Rec/Scenarios are where AGD is at, and that's fine because that's where the majority of us are.

At the big game for the last day at Adventure Games in NH there were more 'mags than there were electros, Take that as you will.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

im affraid he is right, they are products, not trends. a trend would be like the fake gucci headbands etc etc. most of which the west coast sets, and everyone else follows because its cool. sup air i will give to you, it was invented, and now everyone uses it. that is about it

btw, No Skillz was going to shoot a mag in one of the games...but he ended up deciding against it...he wanted to do it just to see what people would say..

[WARPED1]

Yall got to face it, mags just are not tourney guns, and never will be. Unless AGD starts following trends, like the lp crap and stuff. Now, masgs are a perfect fit in big game/ scenario ball. Since I'm not going to be playing tourney after 11 years in tourney, I'm going back ti 24 hour scenario games, and therefore I am looking for a nice RTP with ULE, Intlliframe, and an Xvalve.

[drewrw]

magman, i disagree with you about the whole imp thing. IMPS suck. I know because i previously owned one....... I hated it and i wished i never bought the thing. Just the way it was made was horrible... i mean compare an IMP to a Bushy..... Bushy simply owns the imp because their design is totally different. Much better. And as far as the mag.......hands down most reliable gun and no imp could run circles around a mech mag.........simply put.......imps suck stock and they are poorly made... I had a bko that was much better than an imp and YES IVE OWNED BOTH GUNS and i would rather use my RT in a tourney anyways and yes i do play tourneys ocassionaly and our team does well and 3 out of 5 on my team owns a mag the other uses a bko and the last man uses a cocker... :tard:

[drewrw]

oh and dont let me forgot i spent about 500 extra dollars just in upgrades for the imp i had(big mistake) :dance:

[robb2269]

I might be bias, but I just played all day indoor last Sat. I was the only MAG. I will not saying they were'nt out shooting me speed because they were when they were out there. I only missed a couple of games that was becasue I was helping others trying to get the guns working. IE cockers, metrix, dragun, even tippmann. I shot as fast as I needed to and didn't once get out because of my MAG. I shot fast enough and accruate :shooting: I never missed a game because my MAG was not working. Electric guns are good for back players laying paint, but if you shoot and move why do you need more? PS I did'nt spend $1400.00

[drewrw]

rob, nice post i agree totally :clap:

[magman007]

I might be bias, but I just played all day indoor last Sat. I was the only MAG. I will not saying they were'nt out shooting me speed because they were when they were out there. I only missed a couple of games that was becasue I was helping others trying to get the guns working. IE cockers, metrix, dragun, even tippmann. I shot as fast as I needed to and didn't once get out because of my MAG. I shot fast enough and accruate :shooting: I never missed a game because my MAG was not working. Electric guns are good for back players laying paint, but if you shoot and move why do you need more? PS I did'nt spend $1400.00



so, by your logic, front men, who need to snap a shot off in the smallest amount of time, dont need the electro help to make that amount of time as small as possible?

Also, im sorry, but you obviously know nothing of other markers. there is no reason to ever miss a game for a MATRIX repair. if you know how the air flows, the marker can be fixed in a matter of seconds. there is no reason to ever miss a game with one.

With my toxic trix, and my dm4, i never missed a single bit of action, and i havnt broken a ball in either, i expect the same from my dm5 which im getting soon.

[xXHavokXx]

Move Tom out here to the West Coast and inspiration would flow....... but seriously alot of the trends in paintball are set out here. Why? Because California is associated with cool. I used to live in Oklahoma, Mississippi and back East and people always asked me about movie stars, surfing, nice cars, chicks , more chicks and the weather. When i tell people I lived out East they just asked about hillbillies, tornados, incest and meth.


Ohh, I think alot of the misconception about mags has to do with aesthetics. In the past the classic mag had that dingy grey color and not too much glitter and things to show. Since paintball has left the woods alot of it has become a huge fashion show. You could made slower guns but as long as they have insane milling and lots of color they would sell, hence why you still see some mech cockers being put out by Freeflow and FBM.


Sorry if this post doesn't make sense I've had my nose in a fluid dynamics book for 6 hours

[Bolter]

im affraid he is right, they are products, not trends. a trend would be like the fake gucci headbands etc etc. most of which the west coast sets, and everyone else follows because its cool. sup air i will give to you, it was invented, and now everyone uses it. that is about it

what has headbands got to do with the title of this thread?

[magman007]

TRENDS!!! it was an example of a TREND

[drewrw]

nobody has any comments about what i said lol :bounce:

[Magaman]

Why? Because California is associated with cool. I used to live in Oklahoma, Mississippi and back East and people always asked me about movie stars, surfing, nice cars, chicks , more chicks and the weather. When i tell people I lived out East they just asked about hillbillies, tornados, incest and meth.


Rofl... Hahahahahahahahaha, Whoooooo... Hahahahahahahah.... That's good... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

So Very True... :bounce:

So, How are the Chicks... ;)

Edit: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: That really hits home...

[Bolter]

TRENDS!!! it was an example of a TREND

I give up.

[robb2269]

electric hoppers have nothing to do with what marker you use they just keep the paint moving so you dont have to shake your gun. Unless your lying paint for cover like a back player that needs 30bps. As far as your coment of a front player throwing as much in as little time is good but how many shot s do you actual get off not 30bps you pop out shoot and cover. Lastly I don't know alot about the metrix nor did I claim to. By your own post they are easy to fix just do this or this. All I said is that it needed to fixed when my MAG was always ready. They are great guns no doubt just priceie. Does a $1500 gun make you a better player or do you think you could play as good with a mech gun. PS why are you magman if you play with a metrix? MAG's reasonable price always ready little easy maintance.

[adt501]

player not the gun

player not the gun

player not the gun.....

just keep repeating that and it will be so!!!

if you feel you need a high speed electro to be effective in tourny ball then you should quit paintball now, or sew a target sign on the back of your jersey, because thats all you are my friend, a target

:shooting: :shooting: :tard: :shooting: :shooting:

[SSMercury]

Actually, think about the situation that automags were designed for, and think about the current tournament scene, and think about what's come out for the mag over the years.

An X-Mag really is just a platform for the AIR valve, like the automag was in the 90's. But you really can't kill the mag without killing the AIR valve, it's almost what makes a 'mag, fundamentally.

Many inventions of AGD have been aimed at tournament play, but almost all are adaptable to scenario play. The Level 10 bolt was the perfect device for the ultra-brittle paint. Mags are now possible to get entirely aluminum essentially, not the heavy, rugged stainless of the automag. Grips, warp feed, flatline, etc., all can be used for making an awesome tournament set up.

But all that crap wasn't around in scenarios, and arguably still isn't needed in scenarios. Do you NEED an electro in scenarios? Personally, I wouldn't, under the KISS philosophy, electropneumatics mean one more thing that can break.

AGD is doing a smart thing, going back to paintball's roots when it started being "a big thing".

[xXHavokXx]

So, How are the Chicks... ;)



Hot but all bundled up, its a freezing cold 61* today.

If you rely on a 30bps electro you are a target but if you add a little skill to it you're effective. While it is possible to bunker anayone with a pump, slingshot or ortherwise it is just as possible to get laned out on the way to it.

[magman007]

electric hoppers have nothing to do with what marker you use they just keep the paint moving so you dont have to shake your gun. Unless your lying paint for cover like a back player that needs 30bps. As far as your coment of a front player throwing as much in as little time is good but how many shot s do you actual get off not 30bps you pop out shoot and cover. Lastly I don't know alot about the metrix nor did I claim to. By your own post they are easy to fix just do this or this. All I said is that it needed to fixed when my MAG was always ready. They are great guns no doubt just priceie. Does a $1500 gun make you a better player or do you think you could play as good with a mech gun. PS why are you magman if you play with a metrix? MAG's reasonable price always ready little easy maintance.



FIRST OFF ITS A MATRIX no e. I play with a trix, because i saw the light, i used to be a huge mag fan, and i still support AGD in every way, but the marker isnt top tourny spec for me any more. I had an sfl e-mag, so dont try telling me i didnt have a top of the line mag.

Also, look at AFTICA at the 2k4 iao, they had more mag problems than any one could imagine! And i give aftica mad props for continuing to play on. my old team, REPRESENT!

i could play just fine with a mech marker, but i will not be at the top of my game trying to pulla 4 lb trigger instead of a 25g switch.



adt, no one needs a high speed electro, but the advantage of having one is just that, an advantage.

does any one see the points i have made as to why there are no mags on the tourny scene any more?

[adt501]

why are mags not in the tourny scene????

um, cause agd sponsors few tourny teams, non pro

thats why

very simple

[magman007]

correction, they dont sponsor any tourny teams any more

[drewrw]

correction its 3lbs and 15 ounces with ult...... :headbang:

[adt501]

there are a few teams they sponsor, am i right? im sure there are a few, I know TK has mentioned some

my point, if a tournament team is not sponsored by a product.....then you wont see that product on the tourny scene.....therefore proving my point

:ninja:

[robb2269]

15oz pull is less than a 1lb when the HAir comes out it will be 2oz with a valve that can keep up. Keep palying with your Matrix buying batteries in bulk with paint in bulk and I'm having just as much fun with my $500 MAG. What does it matter anyway would you be using a MAG if 5 por teams did? "Make your own foot prints for others to follow." Play safe play hard dont wipe.

[magman007]

there are a few teams they sponsor, am i right? im sure there are a few, I know TK has mentioned some

my point, if a tournament team is not sponsored by a product.....then you wont see that product on the tourny scene.....therefore proving my point

:ninja:



nope, only scenario teams now.



batteries, well i replace them every 20,000 shots, you will have to adjust your lvl 10 time and time again before i replace a battery.


buying paint in bulk? why because i play back and i believe in supporting my frontmen off the break? good point there :rolleyes:



it wasnt a personal attack on your marker, it was what i have noticed. now you have made it personal. good job, i have found a new senseless member for my ignore list.


Play with what you want, i answered the threads question, and no one seems to accept the answer, its thickheaded on your part. I explained why the mag isnt tourny capable any more in my eyes, and people tried to tell me i was wrong, WTF?

i respect mag users, it isnt that im hating on them, i am just stating the facts. Ive shot every mag under the sun, even fiddled the hair trigger. it is nice, i wont deny that, colin came up with something amazing there. But still, my dm5 with a 25g switch, is still faster than the hair mag, atleast for me.

plus, the HAIR reduces efficiency even more than before. Jeesh, its getting like the old shocker here!

[adt501]

the hostility in the air.....

i sense a disturbance in the force :(

shoot what you like, no need to flame

and, as for the matrix, its not a perfect marker by no means, but there is no such thing

to each his own

[adt501]

actually magman007, robb2269 does make one good point....

the fact that he only dropped 500 on his gun

you have a toxic trix, a dm4...and a your getting a dm5

so, your going to have 3 identical guns (yes, i said identical), at what cost?

if the matrix was as reliable as you say (you said something earlier about never missing a game with a matrix repair) then why would you need 3 of them in your gearbag? honest question

and, people can miss games from matrix repairs. that statement was kinda foolish. any gun can break down, and you may not be able to fix it or have the parts to fix it. a buddy of mine podded for the ironmen when they were using gen e matrixs (before dye bought the matrix), and i forget what tournament it was for, but he was telling me they had all sorts of problems getting the guns up and running, that the entire team had thirty guns total to use, and they needed that number just to field a ten man team at any given tim. and the ironmen had gen e techs with them at all times. so yes, **** happens.

but the matrix is a great gun, ive owned LEDs, LCDs and a DM4, and i loved them

but what i like about robbs point of view is he only dropped 500 to get the gun hes using now and loves, and look at what 3 matrixes are going to cost you. this is not a flame to you, just an observation

[magman007]

actually, i said i have OWNED i dont own either at the moment, currently i have a viking, which is going away for a dm5. The matrix is so simple to repair, unless it is a blown noid, the marker can be setup in 5 mins or less, the noid takes about 10 mins to repair, as you need to dissassemble it, reseal the gasket, and clear derbis from it. unless a wiring harness comes unsoldiered, you are set to go.

You really just need to understand how the marker opperates, then determine which oring needs replacement. pretty simple

[adt501]

sorry man, misread your post. play on

[Lorenz0666]

Play with what you want, i answered the threads question, and no one seems to accept the answer, its thickheaded on your part. I explained why the mag isnt tourny capable any more in my eyes, and people tried to tell me i was wrong, WTF?

i respect mag users, it isnt that im hating on them, i am just stating the facts. Ive shot every mag under the sun, even fiddled the hair trigger. it is nice, i wont deny that, colin came up with something amazing there. But still, my dm5 with a 25g switch, is still faster than the hair
posted by magman007

i dont think you're wrong, i agree with you

all right i have a mag and love it i will never get rid of it, i have shot almost every gun out there, i also ref all three aspects of paintball (rec, tourny, scenario) and this is my breakdown of that:
rec ball, doesnt matter what you use, i've seen a guy snapshot out two flys and a shocktech dm4 with a sniper 2, but i have also watched people get mowed by those same guns

tourny: cold hard truth, mags are not good for tourny use, at least not a high end degree, i was at the psp chicago open and this is what i seen, dm4s, shockers, and timmies, three cockers and one team with mags, AGD pride, and i'll be honest they didnt do very well, and were're laughed at quite a bit, no i know i'm going to catch alot of heat for that, but mags in all honestly now considered fastenough

scenario:two guns tippmanns and mags, great for scenario, i think tom is doing the right thing by looking towrads here, personlly i'v had freinds that are all about the tourny ball call me up to use a my mag so they can hae the right gun for it.

bottom line if you want a tourny grade gun its going to be a mag at least not now, maybe not for a while thanks to sp, but who cares if you want to shoot a mag, shoot a mag, you want a faster then sin electro gun then get that faster then sin electro, tourny is a fashion show, and if agd wants to get inn that scene then they need to get in the trend or it wont happen.




P.S.
61* in cali? bundled up? jebus thats shorts and a wife beater weather for me!

[drewrw]

For some people the only thing that matters in the paintball world is how many damn paintballs per second they can shoot. Those people are NEWBS THAT SUCK!!!! THATS MY POINT MAGMAN PROVE ME WRONG PLEASE. Oh wait you cant all you can say is "my dm5 with a 25mg switch can shoot faster!!" NOBODY cares about your stupid dm5 shooting 9 million balls per second..... all i care about is the sheer joy of AIMING AT MY TARGET lol PLEASE this post should shut you up but i know it wont because your still flapping your *POOF* beaters.... :wow: :nono:

[Lorenz0666]

For some people the only thing that matters in the paintball world is how many damn paintballs per second they can shoot. Those people are NEWBS THAT SUCK!!!! THATS MY POINT MAGMAN PROVE ME WRONG PLEASE. Oh wait you cant all you can say is "my dm5 with a 25mg switch can shoot faster!!" NOBODY cares about your stupid dm5 shooting 9 million balls per second..... all i care about is the sheer joy of AIMING AT MY TARGET lol PLEASE this post should shut you up but i know it wont because your still flapping your *POOF* beaters.... :wow: :nono:


some people miss the complete point and take thing so personally, so by saying thats newbs are the only ones concerend with bps, give dynasty pumps, or mech mags and see if they keep winning? great players i think we can all agree, put i'll everything in my life on that they wont be nearlly as successful if they didnt have the bps

[drewrw]

is that so if you wanna bring dynasty up we can.... dynasty used angels at first with 12-volt revvies............so i dont think BPS was the only thing they thought of.............NEXT............

[drewrw]

some people miss the complete point and take thing so personally, so by saying thats newbs are the only ones concerend with bps, give dynasty pumps, or mech mags and see if they keep winning? great players i think we can all agree, put i'll everything in my life on that they wont be nearlly as successful if they didnt have the bps


Not to mention mech mags can just as fast as you pull the trigger (RT) im just not seeing your point........... :mad:

[Lorenz0666]

mags are not tourny caliber guns not fast enoughto keep up, i know the crap "its the player not the gun" what my point is you are able to shoot faster it is going to be an advantage over a slower gun, i can walk a trigger 13 + bps, can i do that with my minimag? no, with an x-valve and ULT? not yet, my first time i shot s trix i out shoot my x board revy, but what i'm trying to say is faster guns are an advantage, and if AGD want to keep pace, they need to keep with the times and to answer the orignal post there is not a outlet for agd in thr tourny scene thats whyy ou dont see it

[adt501]

you know, GA Devil can throw an e grip on your mag that will make it mow, with eyes for all you kiddies that love eyes

honestly, you can do anything with a mag, there are so many options

and for the dude that said people were laughing at AGD Pride for using mags, grow up man, please

hey, i laugh at kids that come to the field who think their new fifteen hundred dollar timmy will win them games. yeah, it will win games against other newbie kids with spyders. but against a player that has some game, nope, sorry, game over

funny story. i was at the local indoor watching a game and this little kid had a brand new (when they were new) Adrenalin Impulse. he was playing the back, and he was too scared to move up, but he was spraying paint for all he was worth. poor dude didnt hit a soul, and he got bunkered and the guy over shot him by a large margin. anyway, as the kid was walking near my table, i asked him how he liked his AI. and he told me how much he loved his gun and how he had gotten a paper route to pay for it. the gun was covered in paint (and remember, the AI has this crazy milling thats really hard to clean) and he proceded to take out q tips and clean the paint of his crazy milled gun.

i remember thinking it was great he thought so highly of his gun, and it was too bad he didnt have the skills to match

anyway, its the player, not the gun. as much as you can sit on this forum and try to deny it, on the field its a totally different story. so, we can sit on this forum all day and argue about bps and we can moan and groan about this and that or we can just go out and play and attain those skills that make paintball about the player, not the gun. peace :cheers:

[drewrw]

i agree BPS doesnt matter, see the thing is kids like to have a false sense of security with these high BPS dreams when in reality they cant even pull that fast so it does not matter..... :eek:

[SlipknotX556]

This weekend in San Diego (where I live) the NPPL super 7 series was in town.
Not once did I hear the word "Automag" spoken from anyone's mouth but mine.

I know the company isn't doing much right now, but I am DISAPPOINTED at the lack of representation there and in California in general.

Just my random thoughts about the representation of automags and the lack thereof.

Automags :headbang: ROCK

-Paul



Dosent suprise me, mags in this day and time arent anything compared to the markers that are on the market now. Even if AGD were into the tourny scene, they wouldnt be appealing to the NPPL and PSP players.

[Beemer]

And your sig has to be every one of your Posts WHY??????????????????????????

You guys are great. This is why I Love AO. It keeps me off the meds and its better then Therapy

[Load SM5]

OK heavily edited this thread for stupidity and pointless arguing. Drewrw and Squid, I'm watching you two..play nice. Everyone else get back on subject or leave it alone.

[Beemer]

Darn.................Now I have to go find my Meds :eek: :ninja: :bounce:

Oh Ya.............Good Job Load :cheers:

[magman007]

lol Beemer, i appologize for the sig in everypost, it just kinda slipped my mind :)


Thanks again load.


Now does any one have any intelligent rebuttles to what has been said?

[Magglerock]

FIRST OFF ITS A MATRIX no e. I play with a trix, because i saw the light, i used to be a huge mag fan, and i still support AGD in every way, but the marker isnt top tourny spec for me any more. I had an sfl e-mag, so dont try telling me i didnt have a top of the line mag.

Also, look at AFTICA at the 2k4 iao, they had more mag problems than any one could imagine! And i give aftica mad props for continuing to play on. my old team, REPRESENT!

i could play just fine with a mech marker, but i will not be at the top of my game trying to pulla 4 lb trigger instead of a 25g switch.



adt, no one needs a high speed electro, but the advantage of having one is just that, an advantage.

does any one see the points i have made as to why there are no mags on the tourny scene any more?


Magman, I think everyone does, if they were being honest. But this is AO - what do you expect? To those claiming that electros don't matter, or your marker doesn't play a role in your win, then why aren't you playing with a pump? How about a wrist-rocket? That's silly - lets be honest.

Mags, at this point, are a nostalgia piece. People like them, they're dependable, and there is a cult following. But they have long since been surpassed in the performance department. The hAIr won't change this, though I think the AGG mag might.

Mags are great. They're dependable, reliable platforms that are great for begining players. But they are no longer anywhere near top-range markers, or even mid-range for that matter. I love my Mag and I'll keep shooting it, but it has its place - rec and scenario.

[Magglerock]

Not to mention mech mags can just as fast as you pull the trigger (RT) im just not seeing your point........... :mad:

Why? Are you lacking the comprehension skills? Your trigger-pull isn't a fixed number. If you can pull 10 on a 4 pound trigger, do you think you're only going to be able to pull 10 on a 25 gram trigger? If you can bench 250 10 times, do you think you're only going to be able to bench 150 10 times? Of course not. The lighter the trigger, the faster the pull, the higher the bps.

[Magglerock]

For some people the only thing that matters in the paintball world is how many damn paintballs per second they can shoot. Those people are NEWBS THAT SUCK!!!! THATS MY POINT MAGMAN PROVE ME WRONG PLEASE. Oh wait you cant all you can say is "my dm5 with a 25mg switch can shoot faster!!" NOBODY cares about your stupid dm5 shooting 9 million balls per second..... all i care about is the sheer joy of AIMING AT MY TARGET lol PLEASE this post should shut you up but i know it wont because your still flapping your *POOF* beaters.... :wow: :nono:

You are aware of Tom Kaye's stance on paintballs and accuracy, right? Something about volume? Ah, forget it.

[B.A.M.]

Hot but all bundled up, its a freezing cold 61* today.



HOT HOT. It was 45* today and i had on a short t with pants and thats warm for me

[Kaiser Bob]

HOT HOT. It was 45* today and i had on a short t with pants and thats warm for me

Man, I hear him on the chicks being bundled up at 61 degrees... here in h town people are in full winter gear at around those temps. I remember NJAO Day 1 it was in the upper forties, and it felt like a warm spring day

[C_lawgik]

I wore my AO Army shirt in SD

[master_alexander]

everyone needs to grt this straight.

if you can shoot 20bps cool, fast, wow

if you are playing don't waste time reloading your paint, don't waste it all on a bunker.

i don't know where you're from but where i come from you only need to shoot the person once and they're out.

work on self speed, get up there, don't get hit, kill them all.

[magman007]

master, what exactly is your point? conserve paint? play pump? sorry i think not. ive seens ome guys with phantoms tear it up before, this is true, and the guy got mad props, but you see, in tourny ball there is this thing called playing back. when you play back, you dump alot of paint to keep other members of the other team, pinned in their bunkers,so that your mid and front men have a chance of getting a better angle on the opposistion, and shooting them out. there fore, "wasting the paint on one bunker" is necessary


also, there is this marvelous thing called shooting while reloading, therefore no time is "spent" reloading. Marvelous thing there :rolleyes:

now, can you please contribute something intelligent to this thread? or can we let it die with the posts that i have already made answering the question and explaining it in full detail?

[Bobbyboy]

Man its been a few months since I posted here and things appear to be pretty static this side of the web (I was hoping for a hAIR at this point a few months back :( ) anyway I would just like to make a point on the subject 'cause this thread is buggin me. It’s my philosophy and I like it. First don’t worry about the popularity about our beloved AGD as long as were here there will still be a market for them. Hopefully with the next tip you all can avoid being bandwagon jumpers. It is sort of a general rule about being a consumer: research the products. I know Consumer Reports doesn’t cover this particular market so you may actually have to do some in-depth research here. After that is the most important step evaluate what YOU want in that product as opposed to what everybody else wants because you are not everybody else. If you do all of this then you don’t have to get mad when people say what you got sucked because you made the best choice possible for your self according to your personal preference and you can just tell them that and they will probably shut-up pretty fast.

PS: That was way too many words used to express a very simple concept.
PSS: If you want to know why i'm up at 5:00 the answer is way to much caffeine.
PSSS: I also think i went overboard on PSs :)