RT need answers (Sorry if this is a dup, me 1st time posting)

[Mild 7]

Hello all:

This is my 1st time posting and I'm glad that I found this automag forum, it helped out a lot. Here's something maybe you RT owners can help me out with.

I owned my RT for over 3 years now and it worked very nicely. I've read, and people have told me that if you squeeze the trigger with the right pressure, it would go full-auto with a fire-rate of at least 10bps. And for the past 3 years, I tried and tried, never happened. Until last couple of weeks, I took my whole gun apart, for the first time, clean the sear, the valve, and the whole 9 yards, then put it together again...BAM! My RT became so reactive that a slight pull on the trigger would turn it into a machine gun. Honest to say, I don't know what I did, but I was happy (without any paint in it). Once I got to the field (Survival NY), shooting Diablo Blaze with my Lapco Autospirit & Viewload Rev, it started to chop balls with the reactive trigger kicking in. The ball would break at the 4th or the 6th shot in auto mode.

So, after the 1st breakage, I switch to my Dye SS, which have a larger bore than my Lapco. And this time, I have to TRY not to either shortstroke to cause the reactive trigger from kicking in by pulling the trigger all the way. When the fire fight got intense, I begin to shoot faster and faster, pulling the trigger all the way, and it still break paint. I check my nubin, it was fine. Rev battery was still good, what's the problem then?

Is it?
1. Diablo Blaze sucks? (Many of my friends were breaking paint too, shooting Tipps, Mags, & Spyders)

2. Gun being too reactive? How did it became this way after one cleaning?

3. Lapco autospririt & DYE SS dislike Diablo Blaze?

4. Bad luck?

And one last thing, my DYE SS '12 seem to be stuck in my gun and I can't take it out for sh*t. It feeds and everything but how the hell all of sudden, I can't take my barrel out. It won't even turn!

Thanks for helping me out guys!

[Chris]

Chances are you need a new sear and/or bolt. Check them and make sure they are not worn excessively.

-Chris

[FooTemps]

LOL, runaway mode...LOL

[Mild 7]

New sear or bolt?

Hmmmm...

A guy at a store told me there are a couple of new bolts out for the RT that would decrease the chance of bolt breakage. I can "kinda" agree to that but I'm reluctant to spent $50 just for decreasing the chance of ball breakage. If I do, it will be next summer.

Now, please tell me why would the sear cause me the problem?
I am learning as I go, can you explain?

Thanks

[FooTemps]

They're both prolly worn down from 3 years of trying to achieve runaway mode...

[Chris]

If the sear is worn, it will slip off of the bolt. Basically, it doesnt catch and lets the bolt just slip right by. Stick with AGD parts. Call up agd and they will hook you up with everything you need.

-Chris

[Mild 7]

Man, I feel stupid.

What's a run-away mode?

THe bolt and the sear looks pretty healthy to me.

Can you kinda describe how worn it should be for me to go replace both the sear and/or bolt?

Yes, 3 years of playing but I play no more than 3-4 times a year. I guess when you guys talk about 3 years of playing, ITS 3 YEARS OF PLAYING! LOL = )

Also, is it true that you can just rinse off the RT with water or even put it in a tub of water to clean it as long as the gun is gassed up?

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by Mild 7
Man, I feel stupid.

What's a run-away mode?

THe bolt and the sear looks pretty healthy to me.

Can you kinda describe how worn it should be for me to go replace both the sear and/or bolt?

Yes, 3 years of playing but I play no more than 3-4 times a year. I guess when you guys talk about 3 years of playing, ITS 3 YEARS OF PLAYING! LOL = )

Also, is it true that you can just rinse off the RT with water or even put it in a tub of water to clean it as long as the gun is gassed up?

Runaway mode is the full auto reactive trigger trick.
Some had their mag put in the dishwasher before and it really cleaned it well...

[BlackVCG]

Your sear and bolt should be fine. The RT sear is built to last forever as long as it's not messed with. You're probably short stroking the trigger when you're chopping in rapid fire. As long as there are no restrictions from the hopper down to the breech such as casting flash in the elbow, it shouldn't chop unless you're short stroking. Try different paints and see how it performs in comparison to the Blaze.

Cleaning the gun shouldn't make THAT much of a difference. You might want to make sure your on/off pin is .750" in length. I've seen on/off pins get snapped off at the tip because they were still sticking out a bit when they were being taken out of the gun and the end got chipped off. Too short of an on/off pin will cause the gun to be too reactive. Other than that, unless the valve was really sticky before you cleaned it and now that it's oiled it's working properly, I'm not sure what could cause it to act so differently than before.

Make sure your o-rings on the barrel are oiled and that the front grip frame screw isn't protruding into the body too far and grabbing on the barrel making it difficult to turn or pull out.

[Mild 7]

Thanks VCG for answering my questions in such a detailed fashion. As far as the on/off valve goes, I never messed with it (never opened it, just use Q tip to oil a bit). The pin seems to be fine since the last time me and a store tech checked. The pin appears to be at the right place, not sticking out nor too deep in. I guess I had to be either short stroking it or paint is just bad. My RT never broke a single ball in the past 3 years of play until this summer, playing in the same field 4 times this year, and using their field paint (Diablo Blaze), and broke balls 2 outa 4 times this year with the super reactive trigger action. But I'm going to take your word for it, try other paint out and see how it goes.

As far as the barrel goes:

That damn barrel is stuck good in there. I can't wedge it left or right and I don't know how it became this way. But now I need a solution, how the hell do I take it off? I suspect is that little ball in the bodyframe that holds the barrel in place got too tight? Either way, is this going to require me to take the whole gun apart just to take out the barrel? If so, that's no problem, but how do I ajust the tightness of that ball thats holds the barrel and what tools do I need to do it? I need to know how loose/tight I should adjust so I don't have to do this often.

I would assume you guys pretty much all own a RT or a RT Pro. As stated, I have a Lapco SS '12 Autospirit and Dye '12 SS. Can any of you throw me some suggestions on which barrels should I get next? I'm thinking about purchasing 2 or 3 more barrels with some diversity of weights, bore size differ that what I already have, and maybe even looks. Of course, accuracy and less noisy is preferred.

Thanks

[Mild 7]

By the way, is the RT capable of shooting 5-10+ bps/sec under the "run-away mode" without chopping balls? Because I've also read reviews that this actually isn't a uncommon problem.

[BlackVCG]

There's no actual location the on/off pin should be, so to say it's not sticking out too far or in too deep is pointless. The on/off pin moves with each time the trigger is pulled since it's what pushes the sear down in the back, thus lifting up the front so it can grab the bolt. When the trigger is pulled the on/off pin moves up, closing off the air flow and the bolt is released. I'm going to figure that giving it a thorough cleaning is what made it more reactive. If it's too much and you can't keep the thing from chopping, call the AGD Tech Department and tell them the situation and they'll get it fixed for you one way or another.

As for the barrel, if it's stuck, you're going to have to take off the site rail, then take out the valve and then take off the mainbody. Now you can pull the barrel right out. The barrel detent will be in the rail. Press on the point of it and make sure it can move in and out and that it's not ceased up. If it doesn't budge or is really hard to depress, call AGD for a new one or see if giving it some oil helps free it up. Also, make sure the o-rings on the barrel are oiled. Having dry o-rings makes it a pain to get the barrel in and out.

Go with the Lapco AutoSpirit.

Also, the RT is capable of easily shooting around 14-16bps with a high input and well trained trigger finger. You can only shoot at this rate in short bursts because your finger can't hold the trigger in the right position for long enough and shooting at this rate for too long turns any gun into a blender.

[kilaueakid]

If you have an adjustable tank, you could try turning the input pressure down, that will make it less reactive and not cause it to go into run-away-mode. Also with the barrel stuck situation, you could try just loosening the front grip-frame screw and than try removing the barrel, sometimes it is enough and you don't have to dissasemble the gun.
kila

[PsychoMag]

I just have one question for you. Since this is the first time breaking the gun down, did you tighten the rear bolt, only hand tight, or did you use an allen wrench?

I can almost gaurantee it is only hand tight. I have seen this a hundred times and it isnt a bolt, or sear, or on/off pin, it is simply the rear thumb screw isnt tight enough, therefore the valve moves in the gun causing severe runaway. Sosta from AGD-Europe addresses in detail this problem, simply states that the thumb adjust needs to be tightened with a wrench.

just my $.02

[Mild 7]

LOL, sorry VCG, I thought the broze/gold color piece on the valve with a little pin in the middle is the on/off. But now I realize it's that piece that move the sear and triggers all other actions. Your right on the money all along. I always clean my after each day of play, but unlike a few weeks ago, I took my whole gun apart for a deep clean. The sear and the on/off was kinda dirty, and I gave it a good clean and oiled them up. I guess if anything that causes the gun to be a too reactive, that may be it. I don't think anything is worn out, but I'm going to call AGD up just to say hello and brief them on my situation. Also, roger on staying with the Lapco. I also found Lapco to be the most reliable barrrel compare to my Dye. I figure I'm a little curious on what's out there.

To Kila - I wish I had an adjustable tank but I don't. I got a Nitroduck Tuffskin '68/4500 under $180 after trading in my Nitroduck 114/3000. I think I got somewhat of a deal on that. I think the adjustable ones are kinda expensive.
But I will try to remove that screw you told me and see how it goes before I have to take the whole damn gun apart.

To PsychoMag - Yes, last week was my first time taking the RT apart COMPLETELY (I shall re-emphasize), however, NOT my first time opening up the rear bolt or screw. I usually just clean all the major components on the valve and thats it.

There's no way my bolt can only be "hand tight". It's not possible 'cause if its not tighten a bit by an allen wrench, it will leak. I've attempt to just hand tighten the gun 'cause I've seen E-Mag owners just hand tight their bolt/screw and its fine. Also, the Benchmark RT Pro's bolt/screw can be tighten or loosen by hand as well and NOT suffer any leaks or variations in pressurizations. By the way, the rear bolt you're talkin about is the big screw in the back of the gun that holds the gun together right? I thoughts that's called the field strip screw? I hope I'm on the same page with you.

[Chaos]

dunno if it has been answered or not since I only read the first couple posts, but I think i know what you did.

A common thing many people will do is adjust their velocity accidentally. Turning the pressure (velocity) up or down will change the reactiveness of you gun. This makes it a blender, which is what many people complain about, when really its because they adjusted something. First thing, chrono your gun. The sears are built very well, and are expensive to replace (last I checked, a new RT sear with the carbide tip or whatever it is, was $75). I'd say you adjusted the velocity accidentally.

Go to a chrono, and chrono your RT (Make sure you know how to do this) if you dont know, you pull the trigger and hold it back, then let it out and pull it back in again, but do that as fast as possible. This simulates the RT firing fast (the velocity rises as you shoot faster), so you can check your velocity properly. Try to keep it below 280fps if you are playing with ur friends rebel style, or if you're at a field go by their guidlines (east coast is normally 300fps, west coast is normally 280fps from my experience).


Next thing you may want to check, is your input pressure. I'm not sure if you have an adjustable tank on your RT, but if you do (I think its much better with one), then you are able to adjust your reactiveness much easier. I'd say start with an input of 700-750psi, then turn it up to get more reactiveness, firing about 20shots in between each adjustment, till you get the trigger the way you want it to be and the reactiveness you like. Almost all preset nitro tanks put an input at 850psi, which is a little on the high end of reactiveness for me, but it may suit you. If it doesn't try turning your velocity down some, or as a last resort use a regulator to turn down the pressure (you may loose some air flow tho...).

If none of that works, then your sear very well be worn down....

[Mild 7]

I called up AGD in Illinois today and explained the situation to them. They told me since my gun is still under warranty, all repairs will be done for free. And I guess my gun needs repair probabily due the cleaning that was done a few weeks ago. AGD told me that RT is NOT suppose to go in the run-away mode. That's usually done by a customer intentionaly or accidentally in my case. The point is, its not good for the gun at all, and not good on my behalf.

I don't think my velocity have anything to do with it really. I know how to chrono the RT after a few practice and usually set it at 270-275 fps. The extreme reactiveness was still there despite of the velocity. In terms of input pressure, I really am not sure anymore. When I first bought my RT, it came with a 114/3000 Nitroduck that was set at 675-700. This summer, I traded that in for a Nitroduck Tuffskin 68/4500. But I didn't ask what the input pressure was, and it is not adjustable. I think the input pressure is fine. All the problems begin to occur after the cleaning.

Anyway, I don't want to take up any of you guys precious time and thank you all for being patient with me and helping me out with my RT glitches. AGD will take it over from here.

[PsychoMag]

Hey mild, I have the same tank and have never had a problem with it, I believe the tank pressure is 850psi preset. I didnt realize it was the older style RT with the banjo bolt.

AGD will fix it, they fix anything :) good luck.