When did AGD devleop the R/T

[xjnation]

before or after tippmann? someone ahve a date?

[magman007]

way before, the rt hit the market in about 95-96

[nastymag]

Yeah back in 96 ...it was still the thing when i started balling is late 98.

RT tippman is just code for full auto

[Kevmaster]

yeah, Tippy RT is cheating RT...its not REAL RT

[Muzikman]

The Automag RT was released in 96. I know they had the design before then, but do to the fact that it would not run on CO2 they didn't release it.

[Muzikman]

ever heard of a z grip


?? What does the Z-Grip have to do with the RT?

[Chronobreak]

well for one it is on my nephews but i was just wondering
cyb second time i saw you ask that....

z-grip is the precursor to the ne y-grip

the z-grips were discontinued due to lack of itnerest. with renewed interest agd remade it with a slightly less angle

z-grips are getting VERY rare

the first rt(classic) came out in 96 they had the desighn before that....think HIGh flow classic valve

[Evil1]

I remember reading somewhere that the actual RT valve was developed long before it was released to the public.

[AGD]

Like most things we have inovated over the years, our thinking was way ahead of the players acceptance level. The RT valve was prototyped and shooting in the field in 1991. The SOB's and Jacksonville Warriors shot these valves exclusively for years since they were using HPA before everyone else. There are still some floating around and can be identified because they are not lasered and have a shiny regulator on the back.

It wasnt until the wide spread acceptance of HPA that we even bothered to bring it to market. The same thing is true for the next generation warp feed, not enough interest to bring it to the next level so it isnt happening.

AGD

[Chronobreak]

It wasnt until the wide spread acceptance of HPA that we even bothered to bring it to market. The same thing is true for the next generation warp feed, not enough interest to bring it to the next level so it isnt happening.

AGD

the backpack?

LOL :rofl: please dont
:hail:

[CaliMagFan]

i think Tom's talking about the cocker shroud-like hopper with the treads that force feed the marker.. If i remember correctly there was a thread about the patent sometime in the last 2 years.... I could be all wrong, but like Tom said, the market is not ready to lay down their blimps for the original warp feed, much less the Gen2 version.

I'm still trying to win the lottery so i can just fund the hell out of AGD and Tom can really put his magic elves to work without ever having to watch the bottom line...Elves have gotten horribly pricey since the "dot com" bust out here in california..

-kyro

[warbeak2099]

yeah, Tippy RT is cheating RT...its not REAL RT

Lol, it's the same exact principle. It uses a rod under air pressure to reset the trigger rapidly after every shot. Hhhmmm, sounds very familiar... oh yeah, becuase it's almost exactly the same. The only difference is the AGD version is integral in that it's basically the internal workings of the gun, and the Tippmann version is an extra add-on peice that works off the valve. Other than that, they work on exactly the same principle, take air pressure and use it to reset the trigger really fast between shots.

It's not full auto!

I like the Tippmann RT. A friend let me try his and it was really easy to sweetspot. When I get an adjustable tank I'll have to see which is better, my X-valve or his Tippmann RT! Hahaha...

[Dayspring]

Actually, the AGD RT was not designed for the RT effect. They designed it for a rapid recharge. The RT kick was a side effect of how they routed the air in the valve.

Tippmann did nothing to help the recharge of the gun. They did it to speed up the gun. And it usually IS rull auto because it's adjustable outside of the gun w/o tools. Which is why the Tippmann RT is illegal in many places.

[TheTramp]

It's not full auto!

A friend let me try his and it was really easy to sweetspot.

Do you see how these two statments don't match up.

That "Sweetspot" is giving you full auto or at the very least bursts.

[SummaryJudgement]

Yeah, I remember the Jacksonville Warriors tearing me a new one at the field I worked at back in 97. They brought three RTs to the field. We were all familiar with mags of course, but we were all "What the hell is that thing?!" Oh, and this was when you could easily get 20-30 fps more out of the gun if you knew how. I was a quick guy back in the day, and that aggrevated the crap out of them one day, so three of them cornered me and lit up probably shooting around 330. They weren't cool guys (at least those three), but it was (and still is) a real cool gun. :shooting: :mad:

[skipdogg]

AGD is always ahead of their time. That is one of the MANY reasons why Tom/AGD is the coolest.

[BlackVCG]

the backpack?

LOL :rofl: please dont
:hail:

Actually, no.

[hitech]

The same thing is true for the next generation warp feed, not enough interest to bring it to the next level so it isnt happening.


You have some prototypes then? I imaqine you are not interested in selling a very loyal, finder of vortex shedding, customer a prototype, are you? :hail:

And, I'm serious. If you're willing to sell me a prototype of the next gen. warp feed I want to buy it.

If you still have the working backpack version, I'd really like that! :bounce:

:cheers:

[GT]

The RT valve was prototyped and shooting in the field in 1991. AGD

dam!

[warbeak2099]

Do you see how these two statments don't match up.

That "Sweetspot" is giving you full auto or at the very least bursts.

No, it's not full auto lol. A sweetspotted RT isn't full auto and niether is a Tippmann RT. It's still only firing one shot per trigger cycle. It's just cycling the trigger very fast like bounce on an RT style valve. The adjustability of it has nothing to do with f/a. There is no way to adjust the RT to be full auto. It's just like cranking up an adjustable tank on an RT valve. That's what I meant when I said they are the same principle. I meant they basically work the same. I know the RT was developed to recharge faster and yes the bounce is a nice side-effect. But the principle of putting air pressure on the trigger thus resetting it rapidly after every pull is the same in each setup.

[slade]

yes, if a rt trigger can be sweetspotted it is full auto. if the marker will fire continually if a constant pressure is applied and not released, then it is full auto. its just a different full auto than in other markers, where the trigger does not have to move for the marker to fire.

[Dayspring]

Not really. The Mag has always worked that way. The Tippmann one hasn't. They had to jury rig a setup to do it.


But the principle of putting air pressure on the trigger thus resetting it rapidly after every pull is the same in each setup.

[TheTramp]

No, it's not full auto lol. A sweetspotted RT isn't full auto and niether is a Tippmann RT. It's still only firing one shot per trigger cycle. It's just cycling the trigger very fast like bounce on an RT style valve.

lol That's just semantics.

It is "effectively" giving you full auto. IE you pull and hold and more than one shot comes out. It doesn't matter if the trigger is moving because your finger isn't and the effect is the same.

[AGD]

Heck I'll even show you where we were going with the warp. In this version the warp is mounted central to the gun and integrated around the tank and regulator. From the outside, the tank and hopper look like one piece with the fill ports on either side between the front and rear grip. What is shown here is a photochop cutaway view. The balls feed up through the front grip and into the side of the gun.

No offset weight, no hose sticking out, nothing on top of the gun, no addtional bulk, no addtional weight, structurally integrated into the gun so you can superman in and not break it off. Ashame it will never happen.


AGD

[skipdogg]

Tom,
I'm curious why you say it will "never" happen.

[warbeak2099]

lol That's just semantics.

It is "effectively" giving you full auto. IE you pull and hold and more than one shot comes out. It doesn't matter if the trigger is moving because your finger isn't and the effect is the same.

Actually your finger is still moving back and forth. You're still pulling the trigger back every shot. The reactivity just allows you to do it faster. So if you regard the Tippmann RT as f/a then so is the AGD RT.

And Dayspring, all I meant was that they work on the same principle. They both reset the trigger faster by pushing it forward with a piston under air pressure. I'm not talking about how the two products came to be or when or who's is more refined. In the general sense they do the same thing. That's it, I've been trying to come up with a statement to correctly sum up what I'm sayin and there it is... they do the same thing.

[Muzikman]

Actually your finger is still moving back and forth. You're still pulling the trigger back every shot. The reactivity just allows you to do it faster. So if you regard the Tippmann RT as f/a then so is the AGD RT.

And Dayspring, all I meant was that they work on the same principle. They both reset the trigger faster by pushing it forward with a piston under air pressure. I'm not talking about how the two products came to be or when or who's is more refined. In the general sense they do the same thing. That's it, I've been trying to come up with a statement to correctly sum up what I'm sayin and there it is... they do the same thing.


The big diference is how much force is used. The RT is ~2x as much pushing the trigger forward as it takes to pull back. The Tippmann is well above that. And for all intense and purposes, sweetspotting is F/A. You are not moving your finger, the trigger is. Also you have to adjust the Automag to sweetspot, the Tippmann you have to play with it to get it not to sweetspot. There is a difference.

[Muzikman]

Tom, when can i get me a new style warp;)

[hitech]

Tom, when can i get me a new style warp;)

You know, I REALLY wasn't kidding. I can't even play without a warp anymore. I'm not sure I know how. I know it improves my ability on the field. I can handle myself against "tournament" players even though I only play a few times a year. I was always the last one alive (and shooting back). I even outlasted Darryl formally of Bob Long's Ironmen. ;)

So Tom, do you still have that rumored backpack warp? I would have a grand ole time showing it off at the scenario game at Fort Ord. :D

[TheTramp]

Actually your finger is still moving back and forth. You're still pulling the trigger back every shot. The reactivity just allows you to do it faster. So if you regard the Tippmann RT as f/a then so is the AGD RT.


I guess your finger does get nudged a bit. I've shot three (2 on A-5s and 1 on a M98) and they all allowed me to pull my figer back to a set point and hold it there while the gun kept firing. If you don't want to call that full auto/burst then that's fine with me but I certenly wasn't pulling the trigger each shot.

[Muzikman]

You know, I REALLY wasn't kidding. I can't even play without a warp anymore. I'm not sure I know how. I know it improves my ability on the field. I can handle myself against "tournament" players even though I only play a few times a year. I was always the last one alive (and shooting back). I even outlasted Darryl formally of Bob Long's Ironmen. ;)

So Tom, do you still have that rumored backpack warp? I would have a grand ole time showing it off at the scenario game at Fort Ord. :D

Neither was I.

As for the backpack. I know it can be done and it is said to work. I saw one at IAO in 2001 I think it was. The guy who made it lost an arm so this was his way of carrying enough paint to finish a game. It was built on an old green canvas (army) backpack with a warp mounted to the bottom.

Back years ago, '96 or so, someone had a pressurized backpack loader at IAO. They were demoing it in the speedball field by holding the gun upside down and shooting. The problem with it was it only held a few hundred balls and was a pain to reload.

[Cilio - Knightmare Tango]

Tom,

Would the front of that integrated Warp have been able to take someone coming down on it rather hard? I've put a few nice marks in the bottom of my foregrip.

[hitech]

Neither was I.

Sorry, I mistook the ;) .

I've thought of making one myself, but how to get it to feed when horizontal is the problem. I probably could figure something out, but not without a lot of work. Using a backpack with a warp was the first idea I had when I got a warp. I was convinced I was going to do it until I actually got the warp. I just don't have the fabrication tools or time necessary. I'd really like one...

:cheers:

[Chronobreak]

not to get too off subject but this is what i was picturing
http://store1.yimg.com/I/proteam_1820_134158

i was thinking soemthing like the current warp + a halo like setup at the bottom...the halo could throw the balls to the warp then the warp could supercharge then paint(faster and stringer) to throught he tube.

the only thing i see as a problem would be falling on the hose or soemthing.

i might get one of those backpack watergun things and make myself a project :D :ninja:

[slade]

You're still pulling the trigger back every shot.
no, you arent. thats the point. with a tuned rt, you dont pull the trigger each shot, you just have to apply constant force and the marker moves the trigger (and your finger with it).

[warbeak2099]

Ok, ok but it's still technically not f/a just like an AGD RT. 1 shot per cycle. 'm sorry I brought it up. I'm just saying they do the same thing or rather they have the same effect... bounce.

[Terminal Frost]

Neither was I.

As for the backpack. I know it can be done and it is said to work. I saw one at IAO in 2001 I think it was. The guy who made it lost an arm so this was his way of carrying enough paint to finish a game. It was built on an old green canvas (army) backpack with a warp mounted to the bottom.

Back years ago, '96 or so, someone had a pressurized backpack loader at IAO. They were demoing it in the speedball field by holding the gun upside down and shooting. The problem with it was it only held a few hundred balls and was a pain to reload.

can i see some pics of this backpack???

[Muzikman]

I don't know if anyone got a pic of the warp/backpack loader or not.

The pressurized backpack loader from the late 90's is on Warpig some place.

[Beemer]

Read this thread

More pics here, pg 2 half way down http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=62674&page=2&pp=40


http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45263&stc=1

[matt-o]

I guess your finger does get nudged a bit. I've shot three (2 on A-5s and 1 on a M98) and they all allowed me to pull my figer back to a set point and hold it there while the gun kept firing. If you don't want to call that full auto/burst then that's fine with me but I certenly wasn't pulling the trigger each shot.
the correct term is super-semiauto for both, this also includes guns with a turbo mode like the old shockers

[Enemy]

this is all called bounce...bounce oh and the shockers werent super semi they were effectivly ramped where the user hit certian bps and board went to db1.. turbo is real ramping where user hits x bps and gun shots x bps + xbps often 2.5 and up! oh and i think i might like the older warps there is an advantage of having the hopper on one side of the gun thats the side that stays in!!!!!! but thanks for the pics tom

[68magOwner]

Heck I'll even show you where we were going with the warp. In this version the warp is mounted central to the gun and integrated around the tank and regulator. From the outside, the tank and hopper look like one piece with the fill ports on either side between the front and rear grip. What is shown here is a photochop cutaway view. The balls feed up through the front grip and into the side of the gun.

No offset weight, no hose sticking out, nothing on top of the gun, no addtional bulk, no addtional weight, structurally integrated into the gun so you can superman in and not break it off. Ashame it will never happen.


AGD


hmm, while your at it, why not make the balls feed from the foregrip directly into the breech rather than having the hose, make the foregrip an upside down feedneck of sorts. (would require relocation of course) anyway, this is something i would be interested in, but, woud HAVE to try before i bought one, would need to see how it balanced, how easy it was to reload, any inconvience of having it over a standard loader, if the good outweighed the bad, i would look into getting one (or look at the price tag ;) ) any idea if the new pres will look into going anywhaere with this idea?

[Glickman]

Heck I'll even show you where we were going with the warp. In this version the warp is mounted central to the gun and integrated around the tank and regulator. From the outside, the tank and hopper look like one piece with the fill ports on either side between the front and rear grip. What is shown here is a photochop cutaway view. The balls feed up through the front grip and into the side of the gun.

No offset weight, no hose sticking out, nothing on top of the gun, no addtional bulk, no addtional weight, structurally integrated into the gun so you can superman in and not break it off. Ashame it will never happen.


AGD


looks like a great idea, but what about making it feed up, like that gun with a trap door i cant recall the name of. side feeding guns, ie. Omen, i dont think are very reliable, nor popular