Smart Car gets US DOT approval

[cphilip]

So here it comes to the US...

http://www.zapworld.com/about/news/news_smartepa.asp

[personman]

aka death machine?


It would suck to go on a road trip in one of those things.

[slade]

that thing is HIDEOUS!!!!!
and it can only hold 2 people?!??!

but damn, 60 mpg sounds pretty good...

[Ov3rmind]

that thing is HIDEOUS!!!!!
and it can only hold 2 people?!??!

but damn, 60 mpg sounds pretty good...
Haha, my thoughts exactly. One of the ugliest things on 4 wheels I've ever seen, but 60 mpg.... damn.

[BlackVCG]

Or you could get a VW Jetta with a 1.9L Turbo Diesel and get 55mpg on a roadtrip...

Capable of holding 5 people and actually looks like a car...

[magmanl337]

i can get my brother to go 200 MPG (gallons of speed that is...)

[Python14]

How much are they asking for one of those little powerwheels?

[TDonovan]

I have no problems with an ugly car that is extremely efficient and environmentally friendly. But I DO have a problem with a car that can fit 2 smaller people at most, and that will get trashed in an accident. I don't care how "safe" it is supposed to be, but if that thing were to hit our F-150 it would be crushed like a tin can (or flying away).

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

That car would rock if you are in the city.

[Bubonic Plauge]

Amazing. The article said it was as safe as Mercedes in tests crashes.

[gc82000]

Imagine those cars with a lift and and huge tires it would be crazy. :argh:

[joez]

Crash tests also showed that the Toyota Tercel was an extremely safe car. The Tercel had the highest death-per-accident rating of any other car produced from 1992-1998, when it was built with the new design. Crash test's mean squat, because they test against equal mass at 30mph. When that gets hit by a 3-ton Excursion at 50mph because the woman yacking on her phone didnt see that midget car, see how well it holds up.

When will Americans wake up and realize that Diesel fuel is cleaner and far more efficient than gassoline. A diesel electric hybrid compact or midsize car could very easily pull down a lot more than those numbers, and would be a real car. Hell, like it was said, diesel jetta's have recorded mpg #'s in the high 50's. Diesel escorts pulled down high 40's, and those were mechanical IDI motors with no turbo's.

[Kaiser Bob]

Imagine those cars with a lift and and huge tires it would be crazy. :argh:

Would degrade the fuel efficency... so then what are the reasons you bought one? ;)

PS- Agreed on the diesel, was looking for one myself... as it looked like a lot of people were about to do... more efficent, diesel cheaper then regular... then diesel became as expensive as super, wtf? Goddamn petroleum company conspiracy

[govnamac]

In Europe those are mainly used for driving in the cities, since they are easier to park and get through traffic. If I remember right, they don't do over 55mph, so might be a little tricky driving on highways.

[Steelrat]

I think they even let them park perpendicular to the curb, which does a lot to alleviate the overcrowding of European cities.

American driving needs really demands a different sort of car than the average European would need.

[Steelrat]

Oh, thats classic. They drive the smart display vehicle on the back of a hummer. Oh, the irony!

[Destructo6]

Or you could get a VW Jetta with a 1.9L Turbo Diesel and get 55mpg on a roadtrip..
If a diesel VW was available in CA, you would have a point. Unfortunately, they are not. I don't know of any passenger vehicle model that is currently offered in CA.

[Lohman446]

Of course they are "as safe as a Mercedes" at least the original ones were Mercedes (though not badged as such) so by definition they are as safe as that particular car made by Mercedes.

The dealer idea is awesome.. they come in little plastic or glass cases and can be stacked up, like the hotwheel cases. You test drive one, like it, you point out what one in the stack you want and they get it down for you..

Gotta be safer than taht BMW front door thing that was around for awhile LOL.

[GT]

crash stuff at borttom : http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5217861/

they start at 12k, not going to survive at that price point. I have a bud in tawian that has the cnvertible.

[mcveighr]

PS- Agreed on the diesel, was looking for one myself... as it looked like a lot of people were about to do... more efficent, diesel cheaper then regular... then diesel became as expensive as super, wtf? Goddamn petroleum company conspiracy

Home Heating Oil, or furnace oil, is just dyed diesel, so in the fall and winter when demand for furnace oil goes up, so does the cost.

Supply and demand.

Oh, thats classic. They drive the smart display vehicle on the back of a hummer. Oh, the irony!

I was thinking that too.

[mcveighr]

Also, I am a firm supporter of turbo diesels, the turbo diesel hybrid idea, and better emissions.

As for the 12k price, is their any chance of getting a tax cut like with the prius?

[justjoshin590]

I think they even let them park perpendicular to the curb, which does a lot to alleviate the overcrowding of European cities.

American driving needs really demands a different sort of car than the average European would need.
i take it you havent been in rome on foot :eek:
at least i think thats what you meant

[Dubstar112]

so somone put a cbr 600 motor in a go cart frame and called it smart. hrm.

Id take one, boost it, and drag race it ! ;)

How well does it go through 3 feet of snow up here though? Im guessing it doesnt... :(

[mcveighr]

it is boosted.

I believe its a .9L three cylinder turbo diesel.

[HoppysMag]

Gotta be safer than taht BMW front door thing that was around for awhile LOL.


bmw iseta. its PIMP

but the smart cars are actualy mercedes/chrysler right?

[mcveighr]

Mercedes sells them up here.

[bofh]

I have no problems with an ugly car that is extremely efficient and environmentally friendly. But I DO have a problem with a car that can fit 2 smaller people at most, and that will get trashed in an accident. I don't care how "safe" it is supposed to be, but if that thing were to hit our F-150 it would be crushed like a tin can (or flying away).

I've actually driven a first gen smart car a few years ago. It can fit two big size humans. I'm on the high end of average (6'0" 220lbs) and I had lots of room.

Of course, how often do you drive with more than two people in the car? This car is purpose made commuting second car.

I already have a TDi VW beetle, so I have no need for fifth commuting car :)

[Python14]

How much cargo space does it have?

[Gambit1106]

Its a beefed up golf cart except I would not have a place for my clubs. I would love to try and see if my 6'4" butt could fit in that thing. :eek:

[bofh]

Its a beefed up golf cart except I would not have a place for my clubs. I would love to try and see if my 6'4" butt could fit in that thing. :eek:

You'd prolly fit well. I had a good amount of seat travel left, and quite a bit of head room. I think somebody would have to be really talk (ie. 6'8" or more) before then the car stopped fitting.

As far luggage room, not lots. maybe a 3 foot wide, by 1 foot depth, and maybe two feet high, area. Lots for groceries, not so much for a road trip. You could maybe fit a set of clubs, but it would get in your rear view vision.

[toolfan62]

lol 60 horsepower 3 cylinder..no thanks

[Destructo6]

60hp in a 1500lb vehicle isn't too bad. Remember, the original VW Beetles only had about 25hp.

60mpg is pretty dang good. I'll keep an open mind about these things for now.

[atm743]

hey wasent that same kind of car in that one movie just married??


away i would love to see some one drive that next to a semi !!!! :D

[Thordic]

They are made to be city / close-range commuter cars. They aren't made for roadtrips and whatnot.

[nastymag]

these are perfect for people living in cities like San fransico ( half an hour away from me)

in the bay area ... gas prices are astronumical (sp). my dad cringes everytime he drives his Tundra and it doesnt that that bad mpg.

in SF, parking is REALLY hard to find, the ones you do find are bad, and its stop and go traffic.
so i really think this is what the target demgraphic for this car is.

the VW ( i think it was a GTI) diesel is NICE though.
my friend bought it from outa state. and its speedy too, ( plus it gets like 50 mpg).

[cphilip]

They are made to be city / close-range commuter cars. They aren't made for roadtrips and whatnot.

Thats the point. They have a place. And indeed 60 some HP is pretty good for moving 1500 pounds around. And the cage system they are using is mighty safe way to do it.

Now remember that this is only one model. And the first one over is going to be the two seater. But they have several other models that might end up coming over here eventually. A four seater and a roadster. See here: http://www.thesmart.co.uk/index.html Seems the Four Seater is 75 HP and the Roadster is 80 HP.

My biggest concern is how they are marketing them here. Seems one import point and nothing is going to make it without a network of dealers being developed. So something other than what I see is going to have to take place for them to sell.

[bofh]

And they make a tuner version that has 101hp.

A 1500lbs roadster with 100 hp would actually be quite a bit of fun. Actually lots of fun.

But it's certainly second car material. Even more so if you live an area where diesel isn't as popular at gas stations.

[skife]

And they make a tuner version that has 101hp.

A 1500lbs roadster with 100 hp would actually be quite a bit of fun. Actually lots of fun.

But it's certainly second car material. Even more so if you live an area where diesel isn't as popular at gas stations.


1st get honda Cr-X

not alot of power
not alot of weight
but alot of fun.

i've got a buddy that has one.

[bofh]

i've got a buddy that has one.
Good for you.

[Echo419]

Oh, thats classic. They drive the smart display vehicle on the back of a hummer. Oh, the irony!
omg thats great....

[Echo419]

alrite what's wrong with this.. Since i love the Honda Element, im in love with this too now

[HoppysMag]

well the roadster is rear wheel drive. so it has my aproval. i donno about the other 2

[tinman2823]

Or you could get a VW Jetta with a 1.9L Turbo Diesel and get 55mpg on a roadtrip...

Capable of holding 5 people and actually looks like a car...
55 mpg in a Jetta......I don't think so, try again.


Gee, If I told you you would get 50 mpg in an Accord would you believe me too? Advertsing can tell you anything you want to hear. Nobody regulates the advertised MPG of any car. Remember when they advertised the Geo Metro at 53 MPG?! Do you even see the car on the road anymore?! Can you say YUGO!!!!

[Maksimus54]

Actually tinman the TDI Jetta can get over 50 mpg. I have heard this from several people that own them, not from a dealer. As for the smart car, i dont think it has a chance priced the way it is. I could buy a new hyundai/kia for much less, and have a practical car. I do agree that it has some use for short commutes, but I dont see how the market can be that great for them.

[BeaverEater]

man and people thought a Geo Metro was small...

[bofh]

55 mpg in a Jetta......I don't think so, try again.


Gee, If I told you you would get 50 mpg in an Accord would you believe me too? Advertsing can tell you anything you want to hear. Nobody regulates the advertised MPG of any car. Remember when they advertised the Geo Metro at 53 MPG?! Do you even see the car on the road anymore?! Can you say YUGO!!!!

Actually I've owned a VW beetle TDI for the last five years, and yes, if you drive the speed limit you can get 55mpg, on the highway.

I'd doubt the holding 5 people part more so. Four people sure. being that fifth guy always sucks. :)

[bornl33t]

lol it's not even a grocery getter. How is that smart?

[CaliMagFan]

If a diesel VW was available in CA, you would have a point. Unfortunately, they are not. I don't know of any passenger vehicle model that is currently offered in CA.
the TDI line of VW is all diesel... the taureg and jetta are just 2 of the US models with diesel... dopnt know of any others with diesel yet...

[Lohman446]

55 mpg in a Jetta......I don't think so, try again.


Gee, If I told you you would get 50 mpg in an Accord would you believe me too? Advertsing can tell you anything you want to hear. Nobody regulates the advertised MPG of any car. Remember when they advertised the Geo Metro at 53 MPG?! Do you even see the car on the road anymore?! Can you say YUGO!!!!


MPG claims are decided by the EPA. It is in fact regulated by the EPA. Interestingly enough however that MPG claim is not based on actual road testing but by some mathematical equation involving engine load and fuel usage based on engine load.

The point is, the MPG claim, when given in quantitative measurements, is very regulated by the EPA. One it is the number they are to display according to federal guidelines on the sales sticker and two it is the number considered as far a CAFE standards by manufacturer.

[rkjunior303]

Cphillip and Thoradic were correct. These were designed to be a relief to commuting problems in BIG cities. If you look over in Europe where they were originated, most cars in congested big cities are small hatchback type vehicles. The roads can't handle anything else, at least IN the city.. Athens. Rome. Barcelona. Paris. Tokyo. etc.

In a city like Boston, where parking is a very big problem, these would be perfect.

[bofh]

the TDI line of VW is all diesel... the taureg and jetta are just 2 of the US models with diesel... dopnt know of any others with diesel yet...

I believe the Passat, and Golf and Beetle are available with the TDI engine.

As for the TDI cafe MPG, the highway mpg on my sticker was 48mpg. I get about 45-50 in town, and driving like an maniac. If I actually drive the speed limit (i.e. 55) on a highway, I can get over 55mpg. ( yes, I tired it once on a 600 mile trip, slowest trip ever at 55 mph, it came out to 57mpg overall.)

[cphilip]

55 mpg in a Jetta......I don't think so, try again.

I have no doubt they can do it. Diesel contains about 30% more BTU's per volume than gas and less of its by product is lost to heat. So its pretty easy to get a great increase in MPG out of it. However you have to raise the compression to take advantage of it and build strong to handle it. If my 8500 pound beast can get 20 MPG with it...then a Jetta surely can get 55 MPG. Easy.

[SlartyBartFast]

For the doubters about cargo space, look HERE (http://www.smart.com/-snm-0135145948-1101471042-0000013074-0000000580-1102092994-enm-is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/mpc-ca-content-Site/en_CA/-/USD/SVCPresentationPipeline-Start?Page=issite%3a%2f%2fsmart-Site%2fsmart%2ecom%2fRootFolder%2fsmart%2fhome%2ep age), choose the "GET SMART" and then cargo.

260 liters! Enough for TWO hockey bags.

Two golf bags, four suitcases, or more than enough beer for a busload of people. :p

And as far as number of passengers, think about their markerting quote: "The average car carries 1.2 passengers. We were generous and designed a car for two." :D

Think it can't go fast enough? "the smart coupé and cabriolet engine are electronically limited to a top speed of 135 km/h."

And, there's video of it crashing with an E-320.

[HoppysMag]

For the doubters about cargo space, look HERE (http://www.smart.com/-snm-0135145948-1101471042-0000013074-0000000580-1102092994-enm-is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/mpc-ca-content-Site/en_CA/-/USD/SVCPresentationPipeline-Start?Page=issite%3a%2f%2fsmart-Site%2fsmart%2ecom%2fRootFolder%2fsmart%2fhome%2ep age), choose the "GET SMART" and then cargo.

260 liters! Enough for TWO hockey bags.

Two golf bags, four suitcases, or more than enough beer for a busload of people. :p

And as far as number of passengers, think about their markerting quote: "The average car carries 1.2 passengers. We were generous and designed a car for two." :D

Think it can't go fast enough? "the smart coupé and cabriolet engine are electronically limited to a top speed of 135 km/h."

And, there's video of it crashing with an E-320.

135km/h is only 80 mph. for a city car thats damn fast. but for the rest of us, youd get runn off the highway.

[Chris42050]

Am I the only one who enjoys driving a big car with a V-8 in it. I like some get up and go in my car. And no, gas prices do not bother me. It's a small fee to pay to be able to haul A&&.

[Hasty8]

Or you could get a VW Jetta with a 1.9L Turbo Diesel and get 55mpg on a roadtrip...

Capable of holding 5 people and actually looks like a car...


http://www.vw.com/jetta/specifications_us.htm

GLS 1.9L TDI-PD get more like 46 HIGHWAY AND 33 CITY and these cars are more designed for the city commuters.

Not sure where you get the 55 rating from.

[Hasty8]

Am I the only one who enjoys driving a big car with a V-8 in it. I like some get up and go in my car. And no, gas prices do not bother me. It's a small fee to pay to be able to haul A&&.

I love this rather simple minded mentality.

"Screw everyone else. I'm going to do what I like and to hell with the mess I leave behind".

You are apparently a very charitable person. :mad:

[B.A.M.]

When i went on my trip to italy i counted a total of 300+ of those cars in rome. I asked a guy bout them and he said they were made of of plastic and aluminu but as see as there were not alot of cars that were bigger than them is was safe. Very good for the city but didnt see any on the highway
Edit think of what a 250 superduty truck or hummer would be like in euro cuz the cars are so small. MASS MAYHAM i would love to do that . so fun

[bofh]

http://www.vw.com/jetta/specifications_us.htm
Not sure where you get the 55 rating from.

Um, I dunno, maybe from actually owning a TDI and getting that mpg? :rolleyes:

[bofh]

Am I the only one who enjoys driving a big car with a V-8 in it. I like some get up and go in my car. And no, gas prices do not bother me. It's a small fee to pay to be able to haul A&&.

Can't you have both? I'm fairly sure the SMART is going to pitched as a second commuter car, at least that's how I view it.

[vf-xx]

That roadster looks cool, but I hope the price point comes down when it comes over to the US cause it's frikken expensive!

[jamescell]

wtf I would laugh if I saw one of those things going down the road

[mcveighr]

Am I the only one who enjoys driving a big car with a V-8 in it. I like some get up and go in my car. And no, gas prices do not bother me. It's a small fee to pay to be able to haul A&&.
**** the enviroment, and while we drive our eight cylinder 400+ ci engines, lets nuke some endangered species.

[HoppysMag]

**** the enviroment, and while we drive our eight cylinder 400+ ci engines, lets nuke some endangered species.

actualy i want a 500ci engine.. http://www.hughesengines.com/lb/images/500ci_long_block.jpg = hardon. :headbang:


fly down the high way in a 69 cadillac getting .9 miles to the gallon. drinking out of those non degradable styrofoam cups, eating panda burgers and using airsol cans for no other reason that i want to... NOW THATS AMERICA!

[mcveighr]

... NOW THATS AMERICA!

No, thats whats wrong with the world.

... oh wait, same thing.

[HoppysMag]

I love this rather simple minded mentality.

"Screw everyone else. I'm going to do what I like and to hell with the mess I leave behind".

You are apparently a very charitable person. :mad:

oh no, an opinion other than mine. quickly i must insult them saying they are selfish and a horrible person for finding pleasure in driving a fast car!

face it the oil isnt gunna last forever. no matter how fuel efficient cars are, you are simply delaying in inevitable. why not have fun? i go out for random drives all the time. its fun. and god forbid anyone have fun in life.


your gunna respond with a post attempting to insult me, and say im wrong. but know what. i dont care. im still gunna have my fast cars, hard alcohol and red meat.


No, thats whats wrong with the world.

... oh wait, same thing.


eh it happens. personaly i dont loose any sleep over it.

[B.A.M.]

well were getting better and have now seen the errors in our ways but who would say no to a Panda Burger YUMMY

[cphilip]

No, thats whats wrong with the world.

... oh wait, same thing.

Thanks for steriotyping an entire country. Maybe we should do the same?

[mcveighr]

As if they don't.

Americans act proud to have everything bigger than everybody else, when in fact its rarely a good thing.

For example, can explain one practical use for the Hummer H2?

[HoppysMag]

there is no practical use. the reason they make them is because people will buy them. and people buy them because they want them. just because you cant say " its fuel efficent" " its sporty" " its luxurious" just cause it cant be labled with a reason doesnt mean people should have it. its an product in a consumer based economy. companys make, what people will buy.

[cphilip]

As if they don't.

Americans act proud to have everything bigger than everybody else, when in fact its rarely a good thing.

For example, can explain one practical use for the Hummer H2?

There you go again. Fact is you don't know what "Americans" think. Because they all differ on what they think. You should probably just leave your bias and generalizing alone. Its erroneous and unhealthy.

Hummer? I could use a good Hummer right now... ;)

[HoppysMag]

There you go again. Fact is you don't know what "Americans" think. Because they all differ on what they think. You should probably just leave your bias and generalizing alone. Its erroneous and unhealthy.

Hummer? I could use a good Hummer right now... ;)


i think you should give yourself a one day ban... ;) :p :D

[cphilip]

there is no practical use. the reason they make them is because people will buy them. and people buy them because they want them. just because you cant say " its fuel efficent" " its sporty" " its luxurious" just cause it cant be labled with a reason doesnt mean people should have it. its an product in a consumer based economy. companys make, what people will buy.

funny thing is they sell a good number of in Canada. I guess there are idiots everywhere! I find no use for them myself. Not in my world. I can see a few minor applications for a full Hummer (1). And in Diesel. But I got no use for one.

[cphilip]

i think you should give yourself a one day ban... ;) :p :D

WHA!!!!!! ERM.... :D :D

[CameraGuy]

And on the topic of small cars...

I actually sat in a couple of Smart cars at the Toronto auto show last year (and as noted above, Smart cars have been on sale in Canada for several months now). At 6 foot 3, I'm not exactly small, and I found the car to be far more comfortable than I expected. Being a 2 seater, the front seats can actually be adjusted quite a ways back, and I remember the overall ergonomics as being decent.

With that said, I wouldn't actually buy one, seeing as I could pick up a nicely loaded Focus (or equivalent sized small North American or Asian car) for around the same price. I also wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of, say, a North American transport truck in one.

On the other hand, I went on a test drive in an electric Th!nk car a few years ago (a similar sized European car) that the federal government had imported for evaluation and testing, and it was quite handy at darting around in downtown Toronto traffic (high torque from an electric motor in a tiny car makes for decent acceleration in stop and go traffic).

[Lohman446]

As if they don't.

Americans act proud to have everything bigger than everybody else, when in fact its rarely a good thing.

For example, can explain one practical use for the Hummer H2?


Can you explain to me the practical purpose of shooting balls of paint at each other? The practical purpose of playing video games? The practical purposes of non-reproductive relationships? The pracitical purposes of recreational fishing? The practical purposes of recreational skiiing? The practical purposes of entertainment television or radio?

You can't. The funny thing is I have seldom met anyone I don't like, wherever they were from, but I think of Canadians as egotistical, self-righteous, pot smoking, people. But in reality, are you? I mean I choose to drive a car over an SUV, does that mean Im not American? THe point is, I would do better not to stereotype an entire country :) so would you.

[SlartyBartFast]

With that said, I wouldn't actually buy one, seeing as I could pick up a nicely loaded Focus (or equivalent sized small North American or Asian car) for around the same price. I also wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of, say, a North American transport truck in one.

And there-in lies the biggest problem. The cost.

If North American legislators would get off their back ends and force the oil industry to sell the same high grade diesel available in Europe, we'd be able to have diesel versions of many common cars.

As far as getting into an accident, well even the largest of vehicles isn't going to fare well against a transport truck.

[cphilip]

You must mean Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel? thats the only difference between some of US fuels and European Fuels..

...And its already here.... Voluntary at this time but its mandated starting in 2006 for all Diesel fuels. And so far many areas do have it already.

See this Map for current refiners that currently produce ULSD. http://www.epa.gov/otaq/retrofit/fuelsmap.htm

But its completely in effect as of 2006. And thats for onroad Diesel. Offroad is phasing in at some point thereafter. EPA regs.

But its already a done deal in the USA. Its just a matter of lowering the Sulfur content is all. And its currently down to 30 -15 PPM here anyway. ULSD is defined as no higher than 15ppm. Some older offroad Diesel is as high as 500ppm though so thats the next target. But no ones using that in cars or on the road trucks.

[SlartyBartFast]

You must mean Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel? thats the only difference between some of US fuels and European Fuels.

Low sulfur is certainly part of it. But I remember reading recently that the US and Canada also sells some of the lowest quality diesel fuel in the world (while reading up on the ethanol thread).

One of the modifications required for the Smart car was a detector to shut down the engine when there was too much water accumulated.

But I don't know the specifics of the quality issues. I do remember that although our standards are approaching European ones, the diesel that will be sold in a couple years time still won't be good enough for most of the new generation diesel engines being used in European cars.

[breg]

Some dude here on base actually has one. The thing is really strange. I mean how can you take a vehicle seriously when you lay down next to it and you are taller than the vehicle is long...
Wait, I got and IDEA- make the seating tandem, remove the roof, and put bigger tires on it. Oh wait that sounds a lot like a four wheeler... :tard: :tard: :tard:

[cphilip]

Low sulfur is certainly part of it. But I remember reading recently that the US and Canada also sells some of the lowest quality diesel fuel in the world (while reading up on the ethanol thread).

One of the modifications required for the Smart car was a detector to shut down the engine when there was too much water accumulated.

But I don't know the specifics of the quality issues. I do remember that although our standards are approaching European ones, the diesel that will be sold in a couple years time still won't be good enough for most of the new generation diesel engines being used in European cars.

Well... I know of no significant difference in the fuels other than that. The Cetane ratings are almost identical from what they use for design of their engines. Many of them are already here in some form or another. It would make no sense to design a vehicle for anything outside of the norm. And every single engine over in Europe will run perfectly on any Diesel fuel here. As evidenced by the ones already imported and the many truck engines already imported. So I think your confused on that. Or someone mislead you. There are indeed higher cetane rated fuels for various purposes. Like marine fuel and aviation fuels... But the one used in cars and trucks is pretty universal. You can bring any car you want over here right now and today and it will run just fine. Even on higher Sulfur fuel. That matters not at all. There is no mechanical change needed for this. The main reason they are not here is marketing and expense. They don't want to spend the money on DOT and EPA certification if they do not think they will sell very many. And lately they are starting to feel the market in the USA is changing and becoming more open to Diesel. But the cost of Gas is still not high enough for most Americans to consider a Diesel. Like it is in Europe. But soon it may indeed be. So I suspect you will see more and more coming into the market. But its not fuel issues doing it outside of cost.

[SlartyBartFast]

Many of them are already here in some form or another. It would make no sense to design a vehicle for anything outside of the norm.

Some are, yes. But many aren't. Designing for the "norm" doesn't mean designing for North America.

But, in many instances it's that the engines simply aren't homologated for North America (which is expensive), but there are other issues. Many of which may be particulate related:
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/wagon/112_0208_focus/
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/93338/article.html
http://www.gearwheelsmag.co.uk/archive/diesel_reviews_feature_06.htm

But I think disgustingly dirty distribution and storage is a big problem.

It would be nice to see more of those. Would be nice for all the larger SUV to be offered with diesel as well. Should be the lawin some cases for vehicles above a certain size. Nothing seems more stupid than the great big motor homes with gasoline engines. :tard:

Bring on the BioDiesel.

[cphilip]

Some are, yes. But many aren't. Designing for the "norm" doesn't mean designing for North America.

But, in many instances it's that the engines simply aren't homologated for North America (which is expensive), but there are other issues. Many of which may be particulate related:
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/wagon/112_0208_focus/
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/93338/article.html
http://www.gearwheelsmag.co.uk/archive/diesel_reviews_feature_06.htm

But I think disgustingly dirty distribution and storage is a big problem.

It would be nice to see more of those. Would be nice for all the larger SUV to be offered with diesel as well. Should be the lawin some cases for vehicles above a certain size. Nothing seems more stupid than the great big motor homes with gasoline engines. :tard:

Bring on the BioDiesel.

Again, there is no difference in those vehicles needs for fuels to run efficiently. They will run fine just as they are. There is a difference in Low Sulfur fuel availability. But other than that.... ALL of the European models can be run just as well on the fuel available here in the USA. They might not meet emissions because of the sulfur content but they will run. There is no need to redesign for this market. There is a need to supply it with low sulfur fuel to meet emissions rather than strap on more emmissions controls that would hamper the efficient operation of those motors. Thats the only real remaining issue to phase in. And mostly its now just demand for them in the US. But there is no design changes that are going to need to be done outside of particulate matter at this time. But particulate matter issues exist here and there. I could go over there and buy every and all of them and bring them in here and run them on any pump Diesel there is and they would run without fail. However they would polute more than US EPA is going to allow unless they are run on Low Sulfur Fuels. I don't know were you get the idea that Diesels over there are somehow completely different beasts. They are not. They all work the same. But no company wants to affix restrictive emmissions stuff on them to satisfy the US market when the issue could be, and is being, solved by Low Sulfur fuels. And no company wants to invest a lot of money into the US market unless that and the demands for them are met. Its not a matter of retooling them. Its a matter of public reception and preception. And timing. Particulate matter and O2 issues are in existence in all countries. And those have to be delt with eventualy. But besides those, Diesel is cleaner in ALL remaining categories compaired to Gasoline Engines. And more efficient too.

[doc_Zox]

i drive a 2002 VW 1.8T Beetle 25 miles in, 25 miles out of Washingtoon DC, 5 daze a week.
Top Speed is ~ 70-80 on a good day, on a bad day its a 15 mile start/stop crawl to the 40 mph Clara Barton parkway.
Every 350 miles, or just about once a week, i fill up on 25 dollars of fuel

52 x 25 = 1300 dollars of fuel a year to drive to work

The Beetle gets ~25 mpg
a 50mpg Smart Car would save me 700 dollars a year in fuel costs.
We could also fit twice the vehicles in a parking garage.

The Beetle usually sits all weekend while our 15mpg Jeep GC carts the family about.

80 percent of the traffic i see commuting to DC is one driver in a sedan or SUV.
We can do better than this.

[SlartyBartFast]

The Beetle usually sits all weekend while our 15mpg Jeep GC carts the family about.

Which is probably quite legitimate. As long as it's being used to its capacity.

The more difficult calculation (and the one that is most important) is pasenger miles to the gallon.

If a car gets 30mpg, but only transports 1 person (30 pass. miles/gallon) it's more wasteful than a giant SUV carrying four people at 10mpg (40 pass. miles/gallon).