6.6 million and some change For an eye

[Beemer]

This doesnt happen in PaintBall

Hey Tyger or Jayloo, got any details on how this happened????????


MINOR PLAINTIFF AWARDED $6,615,293.00 IN A PAINTBALL INJURY

A Cook County jury awarded a twelve year old plaintiff $6,615,293.00 in a trial before the Honorable
Judge Edward R. Burr. The award goes to a twelve year old plaintiff who now has 20/200 vision in
his right eye as a result of being struck in the eye with a paintball at County Club Paintball, located
in Glenwood, Illinois. The minor plaintiff had left the paintball arena and was in the waiting area when
he was struck with a paintball. The minor plaintiff was represented at trial by Kevin J. Golden.

http://www.mnlawoffice.com/new_develop.htm scroll down 3/4 page

[FreakBaller12]

isn't that what a waivor is for :confused:
who did he sure, county club, or the kid who shot him?

[Beemer]

isn't that what a waivor is for :confused:
who did he sure, county club, or the kid who shot him?


Ya lots of questions

what kind of gun, was it plugged or covered?? Was it an AD or what.

Still on the search mode help me out.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

isn't that what a waivor is for :confused:
who did he sure, county club, or the kid who shot him?

Waivers can be gotten around quite easily.

[slade]

isn't that what a waivor is for :confused:
who did he sure, county club, or the kid who shot him?
i hope the idiot that shot him, the field should not be held responsible for some stupid kid who doesnt follow the rules... of course the field should do everything possible to make everything safe, but ultimately the kid who disobeyed the rules, left his barrel condom off, safety off, and pulled the trigger while pointing the marker at someones eye is the one responsible.

[Glickman]

im guessing the kid, as thats what waivers are for.

i dont like how they dont tell you, because for all we know, he could have done it accidentally himself, or his friend, and won it from the field.

hope the eye can be fixed with glasses though, good luck to whoever it happend to

ive read over the waivers, and dont really see any loopholes (then again what do i know)
but do you mean the can be bypassed by argument, or by incident?

[Beemer]

i hope the idiot that shot him, the field should not be held responsible for some stupid kid who doesnt follow the rules... of course the field should do everything possible to make everything safe, but ultimately the kid who disobeyed the rules, left his barrel condom off, safety off, and pulled the trigger while pointing the marker at someones eye is the one responsible.

Ya ok so who is liable when you get hurt from a ramping gun? [bps & fps] and or a gun that doesnt meet ASTM standards and everyone knows it.

Whos stupid?????????????

You?????????
The Field????????
Or the Whole industry that knows whats going on

[gc82000]

20/200 is not that bad, well considering that his eye could have been gone for good.

[slade]

Ya ok so who is liable when you get hurt from a ramping gun? [bps & fps] and or a gun that doesnt meet ASTM standards and everyone knows it.

Whos stupid?????????????

You?????????
The Field????????
Or the Whole industry that knows whats going on
as i said, the field should do everything that they can, but ultimately it is the person that disobeys the rules and causes the accident that is responsible. regardless of the situation.

[Lee]

has to be the insurance company.

no field has that kind of assets much less your average paintballer.

it's the insurance companies that take the hit . law of deepest pockets.

[Blazestorm]

wtf I want 6 million for having 20/200 vision. (Close to that, I use contacts to have 20/15 ^_^)

Ofcourse that's because I play too many games... I should sue Valve and Blizzard... :(

[AGDlover]

wow ill be going to CCP around mid december i'll ask about it.

[Destructo6]

Waivers don't protect against negligence.

From what little appears in the article(let), it would seem the kid had his mask off in an area where it was not required and where flying paintballs, reasonably, should not be expected (eg parking lot or dining area). Poor field design and/or insufficient netting are likely.

[pierce]

This sueing crap has gotten way out of hand. He probably had bad vision to begin with.

[fire1811]

a lawyer once told me that he could get around any waiver in under a minute.

[magman007]

all of you that think that waivers at paintball fields are goinhg to hold up in court, are gravely mistaken. to hhave a true waiver that will hold up, it has to be about 30 pages long, and you would have to initial after every paragraph. paintball waivers hold no value what so ever in court. any waiver that is that short, has loopholes.

[68magOwner]

ok, he has bad vision, so, buy him lazer correction or whatever and $5000 for "suffering", not 6.6 million freaking dollars. i want more details on the sircumstances of how this went down.

[Lohman446]

I have yet to see a waiver in paintball that I figured was binding... I know any realistic statement of rights has been considerably... well better worded than those and even those my lawyer tells me just require one extra day in court.

It was likely looked at as negligence by the field, and covered by a liability policy. Frankly, have 14 year old refs in charge of policing safety measures is likely enough to prove negligence in court.

[GT]

Sweet!
Let the games begin! This will be only the first in a litany of lawsuits derived from unsafe practices. Lets keep in mind that this was a gun that was firring in a safe zone.

Cant wait to see the the lawsuits from the uber-dooper fast electros. Think of the possibilities, you can sue gun manufactures, loaders, compressed air, and mask makers. Hope everyone has renewed thier insurence. In the end we all pay for a more expensive sport, awsome!

[fire1811]

if you can play anywhere that is.
after a few lawsuits no one will have a field to play at

[Muzikman]

You don't seem to understand. 20/200 vision is basically blind. There will not likely be any repairing that eye at all. He can probably see the change in light, but not much else.

[Tyger]

Beemer : No clue what's going on with this one, but to be honest it doesn't surprise me. With the explosion of popularity in paintball, it's just a matter of time before you see more of this. Paintball is a safe sport that uses dangerous equipment. Just remember that the next time you do a superman slide holding a 4500 PSI tank in your lead sliding hand....

To everyone else, the waivers in paintball exist to give you a sense of security, but repeatedly they're worth less than the paper they're printed on. Even if you have the usual "you can die playing paintball, and we aren't responsible for that" on the waiver, if they fail to keep you out of harms way you can take them to court. And a good lawyer will have a FIELD day beating that waiver form up in court.

Oh, Beemer, source for the info? I want a starting place to look into this myself. I've got nothing better to do...

-Tyger

[bryceeden]

all of you that think that waivers at paintball fields are goinhg to hold up in court, are gravely mistaken. to hhave a true waiver that will hold up, it has to be about 30 pages long, and you would have to initial after every paragraph. paintball waivers hold no value what so ever in court. any waiver that is that short, has loopholes.

Thats why my tourney waiver is 23pages long and written by a lawyer and requires initials after every line and three witnesses(I forsee alot of upset players next season). A good lawyer can get passed any waiver, but you can atleast make it difficult for them.

[68magOwner]

its only a matter of time before someone at my local field takes 1 to the eye, i mean, espicially younger kids and (no offense) woodsballers, seem to have this idea that "im out, so, no one will shoot me/i will not get hit" i have seen many times where people get hit, walk off side of field (still inside netting) take off their masks, and chill, WITH REFS ON THE FIELD now, as a aware player, i yell my head off at these people, but, it seems to do no good, i have gone so far as to tackle/cover the face of someone without a mask on. I have let the stor owner know, he says he will tell th refs, but, nothing changes. Last time i went to the field, a man wanted to watch his son play (i was playing that game as well) the ref starts the "3, 2,...." i start shouting "stop! stop!" as i see that the man has WALKED ON THE FIELD without a mask on, so, i try to tell him, we cant start a game with someone on the field with no mask on. He decides to tell me that he has been there many times, and has never been shot before while watching a game on the field. I argue with him for a few minutes, then walk off the field saying i will not have anything to do with him being blinded. Yet he stayed on the field and no one did a damn thing about it. So, does the field need reported? yes, by all means. But, am i about the try and close down the only place close to me to play on a decent field? No. so, there is a problem, which needs to be dealt with, but, i dont know that this is the way to do it.

(i could also rant about barrel plugs/covers, but, i dont feel like typing any more) actually, i will, at a tournament (where playes should know better) one of my teammates was shot in the leg, at our tent, while he was filling pods for the next game, by a player cleaning out his matrix, which was gassed up, full of paing, and on, with no barrel blocking device. Espicially with todays uber-sensative triggers, safety precautions must be taken. I feel that my marker is absolutely safe when off the field (degassed(on/off asa), no paint in chamber (rip drive) marker off, barrel blocking device in/on), what could go wrong but, idiots seem to mess these all up.


no more ranting tonight- :cheers:

[Tyger]

its only a matter of time before someone at my local field takes 1 to the eye, i mean, espicially younger kids and (no offense) woodsballers, seem to have this idea that "im out, so, no one will shoot me/i will not get hit"

It's not jsut a woodsballer mentality. A lot of new players in general get this idea in their head too. The location has nothing to do with the equation, the mentality of the person, however, does.

See, I remember when players thought it was cool to use stuff like swabs and squeegies for barrel plugs too. The term "getting speared" means something special to me.... a lot of pain...

-Tyger

[jayloo]

OMG, I was actually about 10 feet from the kid when this happened. Honestly I was there that night.

George (the owner) and Kieth (a manager) were there running the place.

The kid was in a private group for a birthday party. I thought it was his but im not sure. All his buddies were all about the same age, 12. They were in the lobby fully hyper from just playing a game. There was a barrel condon on the rental marker. However it seems the barrel condom had a small rip or was just worn in the corner. The kids friend was just holding the marker and frantically talking as everyone else was. This situation is completely common. Well the marker fired and some of the ball made it out of the condom and struck the kid near the bottom/right side of his right eye.

We all thought he was shot with a solid ball in the eye from the kids reaction. He was only hit with some of the shell. The buddy who whot him went in the corner and was pacing and crying cuz he thought he did some real damage. Keith and George tended to the kid till the paranedics arrived. They did everything I would expect out of a professional establishment. The kid seemed ok once he calmed down.

We all thought he was fine and just caught the paintball on the soft tissue under/right of the eye. It was bleeding quite a lot as any face wound does.

I did not wittnes the rip/tear in the barrel condom but that is what I heard during the minutes that followed the shot. Thankfully parents remained with the group and were present to tend to him. I believe his father was present and was quite pissed.

I knew CCP was being sued for that event but did not know about the outcome.

It was a mistake. A few unfortunate circumstances that made a tragedy.

CCP is fine and will continue to be. George is a smart business man and CCP is a great place to play ball. I will not begin to comment on whos fault I THINK it was so dont ask. CCP is a SAFE place to ball. I have been ballin there for more that 3 years and will be there tomorrow to video a tourney.

This event and several other heartbreaking tragedys are unforunately going to happen.

We as knowledgeable pballers need to always take an extra minute to help everyone else be safe.

Thats all, im tired of typing.

[slade]

There was a barrel condon on the rental marker. However it seems the barrel condom had a small rip or was just worn in the corner. The kids friend was just holding the marker and frantically talking as everyone else was. This situation is completely common. Well the marker fired and some of the ball made it out of the condom and struck the kid near the bottom/right side of his right eye.
ok, i guess this makes it the fields fault, since there was a faulty barrel condom on a rental gun.

[Recon by Fire]

I've said it before and I say it again: Waivers are not worth the paper they are printed on. Receiving a 6.6M judgement is one thing, collecting on it is another.

[davidnj]

20/200 is not that bad, well considering that his eye could have been gone for good.

I dunno, I have 20\140 in one eye and 20\120 in the other and when Im not wearing my contacts (glasses dont work for me :( ) Its pretty hard to function normally. 20\200 Im pretty sure qualifies as legally blind. Yeah its good that he can still see somewhat, but 20\200 is hardly 'not bad'.

[Destructo6]

Was this barrel condom a neoprene version? SC Village banned the use of such barrel condoms a little less than a year ago with no explanation, but I assumed it was because of some failure. Perhaps it was this very one?

You don't seem to understand. 20/200 vision is basically blind. There will not likely be any repairing that eye at all. He can probably see the change in light, but not much else.
20/200 isn't that bad. I was in the range of 20/400 prior to Lasik in March.

[Beemer]

Beemer : Paintball is a safe sport that uses dangerous equipment. Just remember that the next time you do a superman slide holding a 4500 PSI tank in your lead sliding hand....
Oh, Beemer, source for the info? I want a starting place to look into this myself. I've got nothing better to do...

-Tyger


Come on Tyger I'm a little more old scool then you. Too old and slow for a dive. MAYBE a foot first slide. Take a Guess on what reg is on my tank incase I do ever drop it and it does break. It has a safety feature just for that reason.

Here is all I Have for a link http://www.mnlawoffice.com/new_develop.htm scroll down a little

Hey hows the back[you doing]???????

Im looking for info on the law suit against brass eagle to. wanna help. Brandon Johnson was the boy killed with one of their co2 tanks. That was in Olympia, Washington in June of 03

I suck at searches but thats how I came across this.

[TheDuelist]

Theres no guarantee the kid will ever see the money. It is possible this could get tied up in appeals court for some time. The insurance companies don't want to dish out that kind of cash. Give it some time and see how things unfold.

[68magOwner]

Was this barrel condom a neoprene version? SC Village banned the use of such barrel condoms


thats odd, i use a neoprene cover, and ahve had much better luck than with the regular cloth ones, have seen plento of cloth ones get shot through, but mine (an empire neoprene) took 7 shots at once (1 full stack of balls from a halo that the tension of the springs hadnt been released by a rip drive) (let a kid "hold" my marker....he turned it on and started ripping when i was talking to a teammate....said he wanted to hear how fast the silenoid would click) and has probably seen a fe more other than that 1 time. :confused:

[jayloo]

CCP does not user the now...whatever condoms. THey are the standard nylon like material found on all rental markers.

[Glickman]

You don't seem to understand. 20/200 vision is basically blind. There will not likely be any repairing that eye at all. He can probably see the change in light, but not much else.

20/200 is legally blind. BUT its only legally blind if its not repairable better then 20/200 using corrective lenses.

i have 20/150, one step away, but with corrective lenses its 20/10. and 20/200 isnt all that bad i would have to say, although im not saying it doesnt really suck. i slipped from 20/90 to 20/150 without really noticing, and i even passed the eye chart at the dmv without my glasses for my permit.

[slade]

i have 20/150, one step away, but with corrective lenses its 20/10. and 20/200 isnt all that bad i would have to say, although im not saying it doesnt really suck. i slipped from 20/90 to 20/150 without really noticing, and i even passed the eye chart at the dmv without my glasses for my permit.
what?! ive got, like, 20/25 or something thats not too bad, i never use my glasses unless i need to see writing that is far away or when i play paintball (it helps a bit) and i couldnt see anything when i went for my permit!!!

but wait, did they make you read from a chart across the room or look into some machine? i can usually see the chart pretty well but cant see anything in the machine at all.

[Glickman]

what?! ive got, like, 20/25 or something thats not too bad, i never use my glasses unless i need to see writing that is far away or when i play paintball (it helps a bit) and i couldnt see anything when i went for my permit!!!

but wait, did they make you read from a chart across the room or look into some machine? i can usually see the chart pretty well but cant see anything in the machine at all.

just read the chart. i did tell her that im nearly legally blind (without glasses) and could pass the test, she didnt seem to care ( i did tell her to put a restriciton for glasses on my permit)

[slade]

i did tell her to put a restriciton for glasses on my permit
um, you told her to put a restriction on you :confused: ... i dont understand... and i still dont understand how you can be almost legally blind and pass the test, while i can see pretty well and not :tard: .

and have you ever noticed how 50% of the threads on AO get off topic before the second or third page?

[Glickman]

um, you told her to put a restriction on you :confused: ... i dont understand... and i still dont understand how you can be almost legally blind and pass the test, while i can see pretty well and not :tard: .

and have you ever noticed how 50% of the threads on AO get off topic before the second or third page?

speaking of legally blind, has anyone seen the latest "straight plan for the gay man?

:D

[Miscue]

isn't that what a waivor is for :confused:


I sure hope not!

[Miscue]

i hope the idiot that shot him, the field should not be held responsible for some stupid kid who doesnt follow the rules... of course the field should do everything possible to make everything safe, but ultimately the kid who disobeyed the rules, left his barrel condom off, safety off, and pulled the trigger while pointing the marker at someones eye is the one responsible.

I'd imagine it was a kid that did it, correct? I have a hard time blaming a kid for it, that was provided a marker by adults, but probably was not taught any safety procedures or was at least well supervised.

It's like if adults give a kid keys to a car, and he gets in an accident. Whose fault is it?

[Beemer]

I'd imagine it was a kid that did it, correct? I have a hard time blaming a kid for it, that was provided a marker by adults, but probably was not taught any safety procedures or was at least well supervised.

It's like if adults give a kid keys to a car, and he gets in an accident. Whose fault is it?


"But probably was not taught any safety procedures" BINGO, what kind of cookie you want?

Or was taught but did not learn or understand or care.

[TMAXXKING1]

all guns should have quick disconnects that have tanks . without a standerd screw in... and the line should not be conected until the person with the marker goes onto the feild ... if it is a standerd screw in tank the tank should not be on the marker if it is not on the feild .... just an idea ..

and i think it should be a standerd practice ... in every feild

that would be a cheap way out also ... no gear for the people to buy other then a maybe 10 buck part if the own a fixed tank that wont com off the marker ...

[slade]

I'd imagine it was a kid that did it, correct? I have a hard time blaming a kid for it, that was provided a marker by adults, but probably was not taught any safety procedures or was at least well supervised.

It's like if adults give a kid keys to a car, and he gets in an accident. Whose fault is it?
at every field ive been to the refs have gone over all the safety procedures at the beginning of the day, and at every field ive been to (except one) the refs have done a very good job, and done their best to stop anyone from doing anything dangerous. and yes, assuming that the refs did go over the rules, what happened would be the kids fault.

and actually, assuming the kid is at least 16, it is the kids fault. maybe not legally, but it is. he didnt have to take the keys. if the kid is ~10-12 years old, and doesnt really have great judgement, then it is the parents fault.

but anyway, this discussion does not relate to this incident, as you can see by jayloo's account of the event that there was a hole in the barrel condom. that makes it the fields fault.

[BeaverEater]

20/200 is not that bad, well considering that his eye could have been gone for good.

Ya take the good from all the bad

[Lohman446]

They wont measure beyond 20/400 around here and I am nowhere near being able to pass the 20/400 test. My sister was forced to do Lasik (mostly) as they could no longer cut glasses enough for her and she was wearing glasses and contacts together to get improved enough to drive.

[rabidchihauhau]

I didn't see it anywhere else in here, but the report says he was a MINOR and minors can't sign waivers. So if he did sign a waiver (and not his guardian), then there goes the waiver.

20/200 is legally blind.

the basic way in which judgement awards like this are determined is to look at what the loss will cost the person for the course of their lifetime. Blinding in one eye is probably worth 6.6 mill over a lifetime.

[GT]

the basic way in which judgement awards like this are determined is to look at what the loss will cost the person for the course of their lifetime. Blinding in one eye is probably worth 6.6 mill over a lifetime.

Intresting,
if the field has insurance the company writes a check, what they should have done in the first place. if it was a settlment aganist a person, I believe, there is an aditiaonal hearing to determine what they can actually pay. Dunno how all this works, Recon has some experience in civil proceedings.

I think what we maybe missing is the pre-injury screening. Was this kid blind before he got hit? Never know unless he had an exam.

gt

[phelix]

all guns should have quick disconnects that have tanks . without a standerd screw in... and the line should not be conected until the person with the marker goes onto the feild ... if it is a standerd screw in tank the tank should not be on the marker if it is not on the feild .... just an idea ..

and i think it should be a standerd practice ... in every feild

that would be a cheap way out also ... no gear for the people to buy other then a maybe 10 buck part if the own a fixed tank that wont com off the marker ...

it would be fine if on/offs with qd's were required, but screwing tanks in and out isn't too good for the tank. besides, i'm sure the gun wasn't condomed, or the kid wasn't wearing his goggles, even though both are "required".

edit: my bad, didn't read the part about the hole in the barrel condom

[hitech]

My Understanding of why waivers do not hold up in court is that the courts have ruled that you cannot sign your rights away. You have those rights no matter what. You can make a 100-page waiver and it will still be defeated in court. If someone is determined to be negligent they cannot hide behind a waiver. Think about it. The way most waivers are worded you could murder someone on a paintball field and not be held liable based on the waiver. It doesn't work that way, for murder or injury.

The waiver does at least show that you are aware of the inherent risks. It should protect the field and players in case of an actual accident where no one is negligent.

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney, and do not play one on TV. Seek your own legal advice. ;)

[thejesus]

You don't seem to understand. 20/200 vision is basically blind. There will not likely be any repairing that eye at all. He can probably see the change in light, but not much else.

The definition of legally blind is if your vision is 20/200 or worse after correction (eyeglasses, contacts, lasik). I know a girl who has 20/700 uncorrected and she can see close to 20/20 with glasses. Although it looks like she's looking at you from inside a fish bowl...

As for the $6.6 million... People have gotten more money for a lot dumber ****. McDonald's coffee incident, anyone? If the 20/200 is his vision after correction, then he deserves all of it and more. Vision is priceless.

With so many new players on the hyperball field these days, I keep my goggles on most of the time. Ever since I got my ProFlex it doesn't bother me one bit. I've seen so many kids walking around without barrel plugs on, accidentally firing their guns and laughing about it. Not to mention the stray balls that come through the netting.

Best wishes out to the kid that got shot, and the kid that shot him. I can't imagine how upset I would be if I almost shot my friends eye out of his socket. I hope his eye is fixable.

Goggles on!

[rabidchihauhau]

Waivers:

There are numerous reasons why a judge/court might find a waiver to be invalid:

1. injury/accident was caused by negligence. Example: if the waiver covers all the bases and then your referees tell players 'sure, go ahead and play without goggles, you don't need them'.

2. injury/accident was caused by something not covered by the waiver. Example: the field is built on a toxic site where they disposed of asbestos

3. the waiver itself is written in an incorrect manner/waives rights that people can't waive, includes or doesn't include correct language required by the fed, state, county, local municipality

4. the person signing the waiver did not have an opportunity to really read AND understand it. For example: here everyone, sign up for the day.

4. also covers basics like not explaining the safety requirements that are in the waiver, like wearing goggles.

If a field wants to be 'protected' from liability suits, they need to A. have an ironclad waiver. B. make sure that each and every player reads AND understands every single sentence in the waiver BEFORE they sign it. C. Demonstrably reinforce the safety requirements. D. Continuously enforce and remind players of the safety regulations. E. Have staff that scrupulously follows each and every safety regulation. F. Have experienced players that demonstrate use of the safety standards. G. Follow their insurance guidelines to the letter, and then some. H. Obtain the ASTM standards and follow them to the letter. I. interpret every safety guideline and regulation in a manner that favors restriction. J. Pray

Here is an example of what I mean. Most, if not all insurance regs pay homage to the ASTM guidelines. Most fields allow electronic guns on their fields. Most electronic guns are capable of firing in modes in excess of semi-auto and in excess of 13 balls per second. The ASTM guidelines limit guns to semi-auto only and cycle rate of no faster than 13 bps.

If an attorney wants to drive a truck through your waiver, there's the hole right there.

[hitech]

The ASTM guidelines limit guns to semi-auto only and cycle rate of no faster than 13 bps.


Do you happen to have an electronic copy of the ASTM standards for paintball? If so, I'd love to read them.


:cheers:

[Beemer]

Do you happen to have an electronic copy of the ASTM standards for paintball? If so, I'd love to read them.


:cheers:


Pm me your addy

Black converse > Red converse :cheers:

[Beemer]

but screwing tanks in and out isn't too good for the tank.

And why would this be?????


Most, if not all insurance regs pay homage to the ASTM guidelines.

Dont forget the C.P.S.C. The first thing they do is look at the ASTM when the crap hits.
Say hello .GOV



Disclaimer: I am not an attorney, and do not play one on TV. Seek your own legal advice.
But you did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, RIGHT?? :ninja:


Vision is priceless.
Ya you can have the 6.6 mil. I'll keep my eyes, thank you very much.

[slade]

And why would this be?????
it will damage the threads, plus you will go through 3 o-rings a day. it is very time consuming and impractical, people dont need to have 5+ lines of safety, if they just have barrel condoms on, safety on, finger off the trigger and dont point it at people, you will be safe. there is no way the marker is going to fire (not into the condom) if you do that. remember, this kid was shot because his friend had his finger on the trigger while pointing the loaded marker at his friends face. the only thing he did to be safe was to put the barrel condom on, and it was defective. and anyway, the more safety precautions people take, the more people will see some of them as unnecessary. if you make people take the tank off, people will stop using barrel condoms altogether. plus there is the whole issue of residual pressure with some markers, so i see this as doing more damage than help.

[rabidchihauhau]

slade,

are you using the proper o-rings? are you screwing the tank in and out properly?

I have NEVER had to "go through 3 o-rings a day"; one every so many months is more like it.

If you are degassing the gun when you remove the tank, are properly lubing the o-rings, using the proper material o-rings and your asa isn't chewed to heck, you should NOT be experiencing this problem.

[slade]

slade,

are you using the proper o-rings? are you screwing the tank in and out properly?

I have NEVER had to "go through 3 o-rings a day"; one every so many months is more like it.

If you are degassing the gun when you remove the tank, are properly lubing the o-rings, using the proper material o-rings and your asa isn't chewed to heck, you should NOT be experiencing this problem.
Actually I almost never wear out my tank o-rings, since I have an on/off ASA with a bleed, and therefore rarely take my tank off. I dont think i take my tank off at all unless i am taking apart my marker. I was exagerating, trying to get the point across that if you do unscrew your tank every single game, it will cause accellerated wear on your o-rings and threads. actually with the sharp threads on the stock ASA you probably could go through a few o-rings a day, and you certainly would if you were using co2. im sorry i wasnt clear, but its somewhat hard to be while typing in an online conversation.

[athomas]

I use screw in tanks. I have the same o-rings that came with the tanks 3+ yrs ago. I did have a tank that I put an inexpensive (plastic type) o-ring on once. I couldn't get the tank on without it breaking the o-ring. Use good urethane o-rings and you should be able to take any tank off and on many times throughout the day. There is a wastage of air each time, though.

[Gr0dy]

God, 6 million is a little too much, about 2 years ago, my dad was hunting and the man got out of his tree stand. My dad shot at this dear once, hit it, shot again to make sure it was dead. He accidently hit the man in the head with 2 little things that are in the shot gun cartridge. The man lived and his wife wanted to sue us for 7,000,000 And they didnt even get it because it was his faught for leaving his tree stand. I think getting shot in the head with a 12 gauge and having to have so much surgery done should be worth 6 million. This kid should have gotten the money that was charged to have surgery and such and some money for suffering but not 6 million.

[Muzikman]

Deer hunting with a shotgun?

And when did getting out of a tree stand become illegal?

Oh well. I think that what ever the court is willing to give the kid is alright with me. I just hope it doesn't cause the feidl to close. I have played Country Club, and besides the wood chipped covered concrete floor in the back, I like the place.

A good friend of mine is blind in one eye and has been her entire life. Although she lives a very normal life and can do everything a normal person can do, it can still be a problem for her.

[minimagjim]

First thing I must say is I have played a few times at CCP, and felt it was a good field with what I would say is resonable safety. I say resonable because there are places to go and set up your gear that are not in direct view of any of the staff. However, most people I have seen there are all very careful with their equipment and follow rules we all follow without being told to follow them. Such as NEVER POINT A GUN AT ANY ONE, even if it has a barrel cover on it. I am not saying that this was not the fault of a faulty barrel condom, but imagine if he was told not to point the gun at anyone. It would have hit a wall or the floor. I am also sorry to say that if you dont know that or fear what can happen you shouldnt be allowed to play.

I grew up around firearms, my father was a hunter, and I never fired off a shot at the wall or even pointed an unloaded(checked) weapon at anyone, not even goofing around. Why? Cause my father would have punished me and not let me around any of those items again. But since I followed gun safety, I was allowed to go hunting with him and target shooting. I follow the same practices with Paintball Guns. When I would bring friends or relatives with me to play I make sure to watch them and to check if they are doing something wrong, as in barrel blocker not on or even safety not on. I will point it out and they will then be aware of their mistake. This should have been followed here. I do believe though the parents or adults present should have been monitoring the situation, and made sure no guns were in other kids faces...

oh by the way I just thought of it while writing this was the safety on? Since the field gives you a barrel blocker but its YOUR responsibility to put the safety on!

[hitech]

This kid should have gotten the money that was charged to have surgery and such and some money for suffering but not 6 million.

He LOST the use of one of his eyes. It's not like he went through surgery and is "fixed". They could NOT repair the damage. How much money would it take to get you to sell one of your eyes?

[slade]

God, 6 million is a little too much, about 2 years ago, my dad was hunting and the man got out of his tree stand. My dad shot at this dear once, hit it, shot again to make sure it was dead. He accidently hit the man in the head with 2 little things that are in the shot gun cartridge. The man lived and his wife wanted to sue us for 7,000,000 And they didnt even get it because it was his faught for leaving his tree stand. I think getting shot in the head with a 12 gauge and having to have so much surgery done should be worth 6 million. This kid should have gotten the money that was charged to have surgery and such and some money for suffering but not 6 million.
actually I think losing your sight in one eye is worse than having surgery for a 12-gauge wound... at least you dont have any permanent damage. but anyway, why was the guy stupid enough to get out of the stand and walk where your dad was shooting? and why did your dad shoot if the guy was nearby?

[Gr0dy]

actually I think losing your sight in one eye is worse than having surgery for a 12-gauge wound... at least you dont have any permanent damage. but anyway, why was the guy stupid enough to get out of the stand and walk where your dad was shooting? and why did your dad shoot if the guy was nearby?
he did not see the man, the man got out of his tree stand at the local hunting club and was going to follow a dear, at this club you must stay in your stand at all times or stay on the trail, the man wasnt on his tree stand or on the trail he was in the middle of the woods. Also he has some permanet brain damage, my dad said he will never go hunting again.

[Robotech]

You have to understand one thing about awards to a plantiff in a lawsuit. The amount awarded is based upon two general catagories..actual damages incured past, present and future, and punitive damages. Punitive damages may be awarded above and beyond the amount of actual damages if the judges feels that the defended needs to be "punished" for doing what was done to the plantiff. (Very simple deffs here...you could write volumes of info on punitive damages).

In actual damages, let's look at this case. One, the person injured is a minor. I don't remember his age but I believe he was pre-teens. If he came to the field without the need for any sort of correction for his vision then his actual damages will be whatever medical bills he had for the treatment of the injury AND any and all related medical and equipment bills that he will incure for the rest of his life in order to have his vision corrected to as close as it was before the incedent. In addition, if it is deemed that the injury is sever enough to limit his earning potential (I don't know how you'd determin that with a pre-teen child but courts do) over the course of his lifetime he gets that amount too! So if they say he can now only make $40,000 a year rather than $100,000 a year he gets $60,000 plus that amount adjusted for inflation over the course of his regular working lifetime which is from 18 until 65...or 47 years. Do the math of just 47 times $60,000 and you see how these lawsuits come off with such HUGE numbers. Yes I am exagerating but it is for demonstrative purposes only.

As for the amount, you can bet the insurance company did its best to keep this out of court so they could settle for a lower amount. I'm sure the amount they offered was laughable at best if this child suffered such an injury as to cost him his sight in one eye (and we don't even know what kind of deteroration he may experiance over the course of his life too...it can get worse).

As to how he won that is pretty easy. The barrel condom failed. The barrel condom was rented to the user by the field and is to be in proper working order. If the barrel condom failure was caused by a manufacturing condition undetectable by the field AND the barrel condom is an approved barrel blocking device then the lawsuit would not have gone to the field but rather the barrel condom manufacturer. However, from the sounds of the story the barrel condom was damaged and thus allowed pieces of the paintball round to bypass the condom and damage the child's eye. If this problem was detectible by the field and was overlooked, there is a very good case for neglagence on the field's part and I'm guessing this is how the lawsuit went down. You can also bet that after the accident they went through every barrel condom they had and replaced any that even looked remotely worn out. Had this been a barrel condom that was owned by the player, it is doubtfull the lawsuit would have been directed agaisnt only the field (the case would have been far harder to be won since the attorney would have to prove that it is the field's responsibility to visual inspect all barrel condoms for wear or damage making them unsafe...not impossible...but harder), but also at the owner of the marker with the damaged/defective barrel condom.

Let this be a lesson to all of you. You may not care if you get hurt...but your neglagence at following the saftey rules and taking precautions so that you don't hurt someone might cost you (or your folks) a lot of money in the end. People have lost their homes over stuff like this.

As someone mentioned, you should treat your paintball marker as though it was a real gun. You always aim it away from people...either at the ground or in the air (though I prefer the ground with paintballs as unless you hit an inflated tire the ball will break rather than bounce as opposed to landing lord only knows where if it pointed into the air). You always treat it as locked and loaded...whether it has air in it, paint in the hopper or even no hopper on it. I have heard stories of people who have taken the paint out of their hopper, taken the hopper off, turned off their bottle, taken it off the marker, removed the barrel condom, and shot a paintball through windows or into the ground because the marker still had some air in it, was cocked, they had forgotten the safety, and unbeknownst to them a ball had rolled part way down the barrel and stuck there.

Follow the rules and check your gear. Respect your marker and realize that while it is a game these things can still injure and sometimes kill people (incedent in Boston with the riot police) and thus need to be handled with caution.

[SlartyBartFast]

Awesome post Robotech.

To put the value of a lost eye into perspective, what's the difference between the career possibilities and lifetime earning potential between a top military or civilian mainline pilot (requiring perfect vision) and a bush pilot (if they let you fly at all with one eye) or aircraft technician?

20,000 a year less including retirement means 20,000x20 (considering a reasonable life expectancy of 75-80 yrs). That would be 400,000 dollars in simple damages without adding medical costs, pain and suffering, or punitive damages.

As someone else already said, if choosing between an eye and (a far from won with most going to court costs) 6 million, I'll keep the eye thanks.

[SummaryJudgement]

The range of sight of a new-born is between 20/200 and 20/400. It's basically a rouge blur with little to no detail :wow: Just fyi....

Oh, and 6.6 million....are you insane! There are people who get physically assualted or raped, or suffer from negligent doctors and would be given far less in almost any situation. If you want to compensate for medical expenses and "pain and suffering" (which can be far too intangible a thing to equate to a dollar amount IMO) that's understandable.................................... ...................................BUT 6.6 FRIGGIN' DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a shame :mad:

[FallNAngel]

Oh, and 6.6 million....are you insane! There are people who get physically assualted or raped, or suffer from negligent doctors and would be given far less in almost any situation. If you want to compensate for medical expenses and "pain and suffering" (which can be far too intangible a thing to equate to a dollar amount IMO) that's understandable.................................... ...................................BUT 6.6 FRIGGIN' DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a shame :mad:

I agree. I understand that the "victim" was young, etc but 6.6mil is rediculous. I'm not quite sure someone could really pay me enough to lose one of my eyes; they're just that important to me. Does that mean I should get 6.6 million? Not really IMO. Going back to what Robotech said (very good post btw), say for the rest of his life he only can make 40k instead of 100k / year. 60k * 47 years is 2.8 million. After adjusting for inflation, medical and pain/suffering we somehow arrive at another 3.8 million. Honestly, that just seems like a lot of money.

I'm sure all of this is coming out wrong and I'm coming off as some jerk saying the kid shouldn't get that much money, I just look at it like this. I previously said I'm not sure someone could pay me enough to lose one of my eyes; in simpler terms, you could call them priceless to me. Does that mean that I deserve 10 billion dollars? No. I'm not trying to say that his eye is worth the change I have in my pocket, but 6.6 million just seems like way too much. I mean like SummaryJudgement said, worse things have happened and people have gotten much less.

[SummaryJudgement]

Indeed....

[Muzikman]

he did not see the man, the man got out of his tree stand at the local hunting club and was going to follow a dear, at this club you must stay in your stand at all times or stay on the trail, the man wasnt on his tree stand or on the trail he was in the middle of the woods. Also he has some permanet brain damage, my dad said he will never go hunting again.


I am still confused. He was hunting deer with a shot gun?

[FallNAngel]

I am still confused. He was hunting deer with a shot gun?

.... must've been hunting some big deer ....

[Gr0dy]

I am still confused. He was hunting deer with a shot gun?
yea, my dad hunted with a 12 gauge, i hunt with a 12 gauge.

[Muzikman]

With shot shell and not pumpkin ball? How do you get close enough to a deer to actually do any harm?

[rabidchihauhau]

You people who are griping about the amount of the award are obviously having a knee-jerk reaction to the "million" word.

Let's assume for a moment that the individual in question is 12 years old.

He can expect to enter the work force at 18 and stay in until he's 70 (they're upping retirement age because they've gutted SS, but that's another discussion).

18 from 70 is 52 years.

Let's assume that his attorney worked on contingency. He get's a third. (Reasonable for injury cases like this)

Let's assume that current and on-going medical expenses come out to 1 million bucks (not unreasonable for the specialists needed in this case).

We take 2.2 million and the 1 million for medical - 3.2 million, gone before the kid ever gets a check.

that leaves 3.4 million, spread out over 52 years, or a little over $65,000 per year.

No matter what you think, it IS reasonable to assume that a one-eyed man is not going to have the opportunities that a two-eyed man has.

If you're not really in the work force (as I suspect of most of you nay-sayers), 65k per year sounds pretty good, but in reality, its a middle-class income and would allow a family of four to live ok, but not great.

In fact, its just about the 'median income' for a family of four in the US. That mean's 'middle of the road' - not starving and not rich.

Its nothing in the greater scheme of things.

The judgement at 6.6 million is completely reasonable, well within guidelines for this sort of thing and not remarkable at all. I think that if you are taking a negative stance towards this judgement you ARE being unreasonable and uncaring, but its probably because you are unable to put it into the proper perspective.