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Flossabe
12-02-2004, 01:22 PM
I was wondering what kind of demand there would be on carbon fiber 45 grips for any marker, i can do mixed carbon with almost any color kevlar, and depending on what it is custom work. Post here if you would be interested.

Thanks

Flossabe

Shocker s/f
12-02-2004, 01:37 PM
i would be intrested but it would be determined by the final price.

Major Ho
12-02-2004, 02:41 PM
I know its not what you asked, but I guarantee I will get a pair if its in a 90* vert grips to fit Rogue and/or angel frames

Flossabe
12-02-2004, 03:02 PM
Yea i dont see why i couldent do a pair of IR3 grips, ill post some pics of some sample grips when i finish them, posibly this weekend. havent worked up a price yet but rough estimate would be 30-60 depending on matereals.

craltal
12-02-2004, 03:27 PM
I might do a set for my new Excal to match the CCM fiber barrel kit i'm going to get for it and maybe a set of 90's for the mag project i'm contemplating.

Flossabe
12-02-2004, 03:52 PM
Well so far the responce is good.

Keep it coming

amrani
12-02-2004, 04:20 PM
id be interestdd, but as stated above, final price determines all

Flossabe
12-03-2004, 01:16 PM
I am in the process of geting a price, i will post it and some pics of finished work.

Flow_Tech
12-03-2004, 03:15 PM
id definitly like a pair for a DM3 style frame..is it possible to have differnt colors? like the carbon grey color,and a blue?

deadbox101
12-03-2004, 03:31 PM
ill grab a pair of vert grips for around 30-50

Flossabe
12-03-2004, 03:41 PM
Yea the Carbon/ blue is posible, it would be verry tought to make it like a sticky grip but a pannel would be easy, i could even make a hole for the LED, if you wanted to sacrifice your grips now i could even put the DM4 emblem on it.

Ill have a price up soon

Flow_Tech
12-03-2004, 03:48 PM
ok floss,im not too worried about it being sticky..and the LCD window would be cool..

frischtr
12-03-2004, 03:56 PM
I would be interseted in E-Mag grips if you decide to make some...

Flossabe
12-03-2004, 04:26 PM
definently e-mag grips, ill try to be as versitle as posible

Major Ho
12-03-2004, 09:46 PM
Could we get an idea of what they would look like? Either way I need carbon fiber lookin grips for a vert frame.
I have a stiffi barrel and a real carbon fiber foregrip(cigar tube) so its gotta match one way or another

Jotsy
12-04-2004, 12:14 AM
i'd be interested in a set for an xmag... depending on
a) the price
b) if you can ship them overseas (i live in the UK)

silentdeath55
12-04-2004, 12:28 AM
count me in for e-mag grips! Preferably black...

dj89
12-04-2004, 01:14 AM
i'd be interested in a set for an xmag... depending on
a) the price

b)What they look like

Flossabe
12-04-2004, 01:49 AM
I am woking on pics, there is no reason they shouldent match any other carbon fiber, the spacing may be a little diffrent but it should all pretty much be 3K by 3k,

Major Ho
12-16-2004, 09:57 PM
any updates?

Flossabe
12-17-2004, 05:01 AM
Had to go to cincinnati, OH for a week or two for work, ill be back early next week.

mobius
12-18-2004, 07:45 PM
I'd be interested in Vert panels for my Rogue frame.

Do you have estimated pricing?

Sk8ermog
12-19-2004, 12:36 AM
I begged and pledged with Frymaker to make some Hyperframe pannels for me, but there wasn't enough of a demand and they are kind of hard to make. I think carbon fiber ones would look really good. I would totally get some if you could make them for me. I could send you my current ones for you to make sure they fit right and everything. I would like a little window for the LCD screen also. I would love a black/blue pair. I'm also interested in knowing an average price frame. Keep us posted and post some pictures. Thanks.

Flossabe
12-19-2004, 05:52 AM
I am working with Logic at the moment on selling vert grips on there site, no set price or what they will actualy look like, im trying for a basic repleca of the grips they have now, witch means a 3D carbon wraparound with a logic jewel, I will be able to do all kinds of sick thigs with grips, when i get back home i will whip up some protos and see what yall think.

Sk8ermog, send me some pics and ill tell you how soon i can have them to you.
flossabe@gmail.com
or
cselby@cox-internet.com

doesent matter to me witch one you choose, depends if you want to do more typing i guess.

Out,

Flossabe

JoshK
12-19-2004, 09:29 AM
I also have some interest in some hyperframe grips...but thats depending on pictures...maybe, carbon/silver, or carbon/white, or maybe even just with black...im not quite sure yet.

nato
12-20-2004, 01:23 PM
Im up for paying 30-40 for grips for the xmag.

N.A.T.O.

Sk8ermog
12-21-2004, 03:15 PM
http://www.rossgunniv.com/PaintballCollection/hypermag.jpg

Is that what you needed for a picture? I can send you the grips themselves so you can match everything up. I might even be able to send you the hyperframe if you give me a price break since it would be a beta test for the grips. I'm sure if you offered them you'd get a huge response from all of us AOers who use a hyperframe. LMK

TheShark
12-21-2004, 04:15 PM
Yep I'd be interested in hyperframe grips as well.

nevets11_2003
12-21-2004, 10:02 PM
i would be interested.

Chris
12-21-2004, 11:33 PM
Im in for some Emag grips. Email me if you are going to make them.
Chris51080@gmail.com

Flossabe
12-23-2004, 03:33 PM
The hyperframe grips should not be any problem at all, I have all of the first copys cut and redy ot laminate but I need to wait for room to be made in my heated shop so i can do the proper clearcoating otherwise it will turn out all foggy and not look correct. Ill keep you up dated.

JoshK
12-23-2004, 03:37 PM
ok sounds sweet...please get some pics when done!

Furby#1
12-23-2004, 05:18 PM
if you can do some wraparound just like dye stickes ill get one

nevets11_2003
12-23-2004, 05:54 PM
if youre ne where close to little rock i could come and localy pick some up..

Flossabe
12-24-2004, 10:40 AM
It will be a little while before i do any wraparound grips with carbon, that takes a little difrent process of laying up, i am working on it but no promices,

I live in northwest arkansas, near Fayetteville, so you are about 4 hours or so.

seekandestroy78
12-25-2004, 11:00 PM
ill take some lcd panels, depending on price ofcourse

Sk8ermog
12-27-2004, 09:54 PM
hmmm... smoked hyperframe grips? I like... lol Honestly I'd really be interested in any kind of grips for the hyperframe. I just can't stand my nasty plastic panels right now so let me know when you get something ready to buy. Thanks.

mobius
01-03-2005, 11:59 PM
Any more info on grips? I'm totally wanting some vert panels to fit my RPG Chimera frame.

Flossabe
01-06-2005, 12:47 AM
Ill give some updates when i get back to the house, im kindof stuck in NY at the moment but i should be back in a week or so.

Chris
01-06-2005, 01:10 AM
Keep me updated on those Emag grips...if you need a set of stock ones as a template, let me know.

Flossabe
01-06-2005, 11:45 AM
i appricate the offer but i have my own micro e-mag,

Temujin
01-06-2005, 01:54 PM
I'd like to get some E-Mag panels in Black, Silver, and Red. I don't know what the color choices you'll be offering. I'd like to still have the windows cut out as well. What's the possibility on those wraparounds and whether or not you can do something similar to the Sticky grips for the E & X panels? Let me know, I'm in the market for at least 4 pairs right now. I have other team members with Mags as well, so I may end up ordering more than that.

Oh by the way, does the carbon fiber grips make any difference on the weight? The plastic panels aren't that heavy to begin with, just wanted to see if this lightens up anything or is it more of a cosmetic choice?

maglover728
01-11-2005, 07:53 AM
Any idea yet about the prices? :bounce:

nato
01-11-2005, 07:55 AM
Any idea yet about the prices?

***Chime in **~~___ YEA!

MicroMiniMe
01-11-2005, 02:04 PM
Just keep this previous attempt in mind.
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117656
The raw material is not cheap and can be a pita to work with.
The orange weave fiber frayed/burred in the runs he tried for Tuna and myself and he wouldn't keep wasting money on raw product.

Custom is neither fast nor cheap keep in mind.

azzkikr
01-11-2005, 03:44 PM
i'm intersted, so count me in

Flossabe
01-11-2005, 07:41 PM
I am back home now and i am waiting on an epoxy company to give me coverage area per gallon of there clear coating epoxy so i can give an accurate price, yea fraying is always a problem with laminating carbon, i have delt with it for a while, I get dealer cost on the fabric so that helps me out a little should have a price in a day or two.

Flossabe
01-13-2005, 11:26 AM
I can get a set of e-mag grips out for $26.00, that is both panels, with drilled and counter sunk holes and the display window cut out, all clear coated so the carbon looks sweet. Expect a very close price if not the same on the hyperframe grips i just have to get a pair to set a copy off of.
any vert grips i am still working on, price may be a little higher but not sure yet, still working on the wraparound. If you want to place an order for the E-mag grips it will be mabye 3 weeks til i get them out because i am waiting on resin to get here. aslo if you want to place an order go to the new order thread witch will be up as soon as i get my final test set done.

Thanks

Flossabe

Jclaine
01-13-2005, 11:58 AM
im definetly intrested in the carbon grips. Count me in for a pre ordered set.

mobius
01-13-2005, 08:31 PM
Oh hell yeah! If the vert panels are anywhere close to this price, I'll buy them as soon as they're available. Hell, I'll pre-order them. Let me know if you need a frame and/or panels to protoype from!

nato
01-13-2005, 08:53 PM
I'll take a set of carbon emag panels... let me know when the thread is up so I can order.

Thanks,
N.A.T.O.

nevets11_2003
01-14-2005, 11:57 PM
ive got some if you need them,
try to get ahold of me if you need them ;)

maglover728
01-15-2005, 09:05 AM
PM'ed you. Please respond when time permits. Thanks!

Chris
01-22-2005, 03:15 PM
Any updates on the CF Grip panels?

Flossabe
01-22-2005, 07:14 PM
It had ben warm for 2 or 3 days and I was going to lay up the demos to day and tomarrow but it got down to 25* here this morning and they will not look good if cured in the cold, they will get all foggy and be kindof rubery instead of hards, so hopefuly next week I can get some out. Sorry again for the dely.

trains are bad
01-22-2005, 10:27 PM
if I can see some pics, it's highly likely I will pick up a set of .45 panels for a my ygrip.

Lee
01-23-2005, 07:21 AM
interested in emag panels and possibly vert frame grips as well.

JimmyBeam
01-23-2005, 10:44 AM
omg, you do Kevlar? you poor guy. personally i try to stay aay from Kevlar as much as possible. its the worst to work with.

Flossabe
01-23-2005, 02:12 PM
Yea kevlar is not that great to work with, the stuff that I use is a carbon interwoven with kevlar so it is not so bad, a lot easyer to cut.


TRB does that Ygrip take the normal .45 like found on the e-mag?

Mr. Mouse
01-23-2005, 02:47 PM
the hyperframe grips arnt that easy to make, you'll have to have some of the grip dug out and stuff, but if you could make them i might be interested :)

mobius
01-24-2005, 12:06 AM
TRB does that Ygrip take the normal .45 like found on the e-mag?

Yes, the Y-grip uses standard .45 panels. You just install them backwards, is all.

Flossabe
01-25-2005, 06:56 PM
WoooHo, I just layed up the first layer of the demo girp, weather is supposed to be nice for the rest of the week so if all goes good eh, 3 days mabye 4 depending on if I am satisfied or not with the thickness. Ill post progress pics tonight. Later

Flossabe

nato
01-25-2005, 07:39 PM
sounds great, thanks for the update!

N.A.T.O.

magman007
01-28-2005, 04:24 AM
well, heres what im interested in. id really like a pair for my dm5. so it would have to be done in typical angel lcd 3 hole grip fasion(could send you stock stickey3's if need be) with blue and black interwined carbon fiber(i guess its just blue carbon fiber?!?) and if possible to pop out tiw "buibble" from the stickey 3's and install it on this grip. if this is possible, please get back to me, id really like a pair

Flossabe
01-28-2005, 09:32 AM
I am working on that. It is colored kevlar actualy. The problem is I have to make a mold of the sticky then mold that and fill it in wiht some thing to make like a smaller pice of rubber than cover it with carbon. Ill let you know when I can.

S.S Bandit1
01-29-2005, 03:33 PM
Im also very interested in emag grips...

Cant wait to see some pics and estimated prices

Temujin
01-29-2005, 04:56 PM
How far along are you on having some of the wraps available for viewing, so I can place my order for several of these?

Flossabe
02-01-2005, 03:10 AM
Had to go out of town for work so I couldent finish them up but I will be ablel to work on them to night.

Flossabe
02-01-2005, 09:24 PM
Well it is freakin 30* again so it is slowing thing down again, that is the way the weather goes in arkansas. Pics in a minute. Or at least a link.

Temujin
02-02-2005, 06:39 PM
:clap:
Well it is freakin 30* again so it is slowing thing down again, that is the way the weather goes in arkansas. Pics in a minute. Or at least a link.

:bounce: :clap: :bounce: :clap:
Lemme see, lemme see.

Flossabe
02-02-2005, 11:08 PM
This is how carbon fiber is born. Ok mabye not born but this is how it grows up.

Carbon 1 (http://tinypic.com/view.html?pic=1j17nk)

Carbon 2 (http://tinypic.com/1j17r4)

Major Ho
02-02-2005, 11:10 PM
Spiff-E!

Temujin
02-03-2005, 01:26 PM
This is how carbon fiber is born. Ok mabye not born but this is how it grows up.

Carbon 1 (http://tinypic.com/view.html?pic=1j17nk)

Carbon 2 (http://tinypic.com/1j17r4)


I can't take it anymore. Let's see the wraps...panels...whatever else you've got. I'm ready to PayPal, Baby!

:shooting: :rofl:

Flossabe
02-03-2005, 07:13 PM
See that is the problem with the weather, I cant lay stuff up when it is as cold as it has been. The epoxy will cloud up and look really crappy, and no one wants that. The pics are what I start out with any way, I can cut and do whatever to it to make the desired shape.
Again I don't mean for it to take so long but I want to have a quality product.

50 cal
02-04-2005, 10:19 AM
Definately a set of E Mag grips here.

shaunyoung000
02-10-2005, 12:53 PM
I'll take a pair of hyperframe grips when you get done. Just let me know how you want payment :)

Temujin
02-11-2005, 02:47 AM
Here's an idea. How about making a full wrap that slips on from the bottom then locks down with the screws? Is it doable?

Flossabe
02-12-2005, 01:09 AM
Yea it is, I have ben working on that, getting close now starting to warm up a little here so it should be getting easyer for me.

Temujin
02-14-2005, 07:39 PM
Hi,

Just a side note: The E-Tac that I'm looking to put a carbon fiber wrap is having a Predator II board installed at the moment. Once completed, from my understanding the LED will no longer be needed nor the program buttons on the back, so I wouldn't be needing a window on my grip. I also have an X-Mag I'm looking to put a wrap on as well, but it's still using the factory board which does utilize the LED and program buttons; and one more for an E-Chord, same situation.

Flossabe
02-14-2005, 08:40 PM
That is cool, when you order one put that note in the coments section of the order form. Im making a site to order theese off of by the way. I put another layup on today so one more and it should be good, weather is finaly realy nice.

Temujin
02-16-2005, 07:24 PM
That is cool, when you order one put that note in the coments section of the order form. Im making a site to order theese off of by the way. I put another layup on today so one more and it should be good, weather is finaly realy nice.

Just let me know where to go to see a pic of the final product and place an order. Thanks.

mobius
02-21-2005, 01:12 AM
Any more news on these? I really want a set for my RPG Chimera frame!

50 cal
02-23-2005, 10:23 AM
C'mon Flossabe. I've been watching the Weather Channel. It's getting warm in Ar. :)

Just messing with you. Have a target date yet?

Flossabe
02-23-2005, 02:10 PM
It has ben getting better, I realy need 70* for it to turn out right, but I can get away with less I only need one more lay up and I will be done, I wouldent say more than a week.

50 cal
02-23-2005, 07:44 PM
Good deal!

mobius
03-04-2005, 03:26 PM
Any more info? I'm waiting for these!

Flossabe
03-06-2005, 10:24 PM
Last layer went on today and I will do the clear coat layer tomarrow or tuesday, it is going to be nice so should all be good by wedensday night.

Major Ho
03-07-2005, 12:21 AM
Ooh, The first DevilMag has crept out to the public. I would like to order a pair of 90* grips as soon as you they become available. Thankyou for your time in creating these btw

Flossabe
03-07-2005, 12:22 PM
Your are welcome, I am verry pleased with the response you all have given.

ApexAZ
03-10-2005, 04:40 PM
I'm interested as well.

Flossabe
03-10-2005, 08:55 PM
Waiting on the clear coat to cure.

Chris
03-13-2005, 01:25 PM
Any more updates?

Flossabe
03-13-2005, 08:44 PM
I am not completly happy with the final finish so I am waiting for the second coat to cure and will shape them tomarrow and post the finished product tomarrow night.

mobius
03-18-2005, 09:52 PM
Where are the pix?!?!

RazorMonkey
03-19-2005, 02:40 PM
Yeaaaaah... Ever finish these up? lol

Temujin
03-23-2005, 08:41 PM
I'm still looking to get one put in on my E-Tac.

Here's a pic for reference.

http://www.paintballwhores.com/pics/E-Tac/Mike's%20Black%20E-Tac.jpg

RazorMonkey
03-23-2005, 09:07 PM
lol that is a MONSTER pic... Hott though :) So any word, floss?

Jotsy
03-26-2005, 01:46 AM
i should prob wait for a final product to come out first but heh....

do you think it'd be possible to lay down some kinda design over the carbin fibre, but under the clear coat? like a small emblem or a logo or sumthin.. just wonderin.... ;)

Flossabe
03-30-2005, 02:22 AM
Whats up guys, Sory for the delay. I know I said I would have them out by now but I am not happy with how the first ones turned out so I am taking a difrent aproach on them, gona try more of a 3D than a flat pannel. Weather is much better here now so I can at least work when I am not at school so Ill keep you updated on how it goes. I would rather take the time and give you all a quality product than cut corners and have regrets about how they look, hope you can understand. I won't be here this weekend but when I get back Ill try to get some protos out ASAP.

Flossabe



Jotsy: oh yea, very easy. I said I could do that somewhere but that was a while ago and I was hoping someone would take me up on that. all I need is say a JPEG immage or if you want to send me what ever it is you want in it I should be able to do it.

Jotsy
03-31-2005, 03:31 AM
oh cool! i'll get to work on the jpeg.... now if only i had saved frymarker's grip template before she took her site down...:(

mobius
04-09-2005, 12:23 PM
What's the word? How close are you production?

Flossabe
04-09-2005, 01:16 PM
Have been prety busy with school and I am waiting on a shipment of a new kind of epoxy that will drop cure time. I should have some time mabye middle of this week to work on a mold.

Flossabe
04-14-2005, 09:37 PM
i am having to build a cnc router so i am not sure how long this will take but it is the only way to get an exact product so i will keep you updated.

Jotsy
05-11-2005, 07:32 PM
so umm.. ahem... amy updates on this? ;)

Temujin
05-12-2005, 09:14 PM
:sleeping:

mobius
05-14-2005, 12:11 PM
Inquiring minds want to know. :)

bunny5
05-15-2005, 05:43 PM
still here :shooting:

Flossabe
05-15-2005, 05:52 PM
Just got done with finals so things should pick up soon.

r-unit
05-18-2005, 04:08 PM
nosotros nos gusta fotos.


AHORA MISMO!


(we like pics. NOW!)

Rudz
05-18-2005, 11:46 PM
def want a set for m tunamax emag u can do silver right? that would be waaaay kewl, just let me kno when site and piks r up kay!!!!!

Augiedoggy18
05-22-2005, 03:26 PM
I would probably buy a set for my SFL Emag to match the future anno color.

bunny5
05-22-2005, 09:03 PM
http://www.jayloo.com/files/pics/18000/right_side_2.jpg

Augiedoggy18, i think any SFL will look nice with these grips :)

MicroMiniMe
05-22-2005, 10:07 PM
My Emag (http://www.jayloo.com/files/pics/25000/P1010004.JPG)
I'd assume this is what they will look like when finished, or very similar. These were made by a previous dealer, it was a PITA and he only did one run.

Flossabe
05-23-2005, 02:12 AM
Sweet SFL, yea they will look basicly like that, the weave will be even so it will look a little more symetrical, ill get some pics as soon as possible, getting close on the router, ill keep you all updated I am as ready to get theese out as you all are.

Temujin
05-24-2005, 04:23 AM
E-mag and X-mag wraps? Still in development?

Flossabe
05-24-2005, 01:16 PM
Yea they are, trying to get the best quality posible so it is taking some time.

icdpro_1123
05-26-2005, 03:24 PM
HOW MUCH FOR A LIGHT-ORANGE CARBON GRIPS FOR MY BUSHY :)

SpitFire1299
05-26-2005, 03:31 PM
What if you took plastic Grips like bunny5's SFL mag and cut a carbon fiber sticker out of a sheet of carbon fiber stickers, and put it on it? That would still be cool...

Like..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4551986784&category=35570

Rudz
05-26-2005, 05:24 PM
we want real carbon fiber, why do u think every one has waited so long? eh

SpitFire1299
05-30-2005, 02:46 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7977567434&category=6763

Buy some, and cut some out. :)

Major Ho
06-22-2005, 04:32 PM
Abandoned project or still on going?
Im ready to throw my money at you :)

PaintballSmurf13
06-22-2005, 06:54 PM
all i can say is... tadao alias grips... :clap: :headbang:

Flossabe
06-23-2005, 12:03 AM
Yea still up and runing, I am just trying to get back to the house to get everything finished up with the router.

bunny5
08-13-2005, 08:07 PM
back from the dead :sleeping: any word?

Flossabe
08-14-2005, 03:00 AM
Actualy yea, hopefully will start taking orders next week. Will be laying up a mold tomarrow.

Marchborne
08-14-2005, 02:26 PM
Actualy yea, hopefully will start taking orders next week. Will be laying up a mold tomarrow.


I'm with Ho. I'l lay orders down for both standard .45 panels for intellis, and for my Xmag, once you're up and running.

Please email me at marchborne@aol.com if things get moving.

Flossabe
08-15-2005, 02:39 AM
Poured the mold tonight and will see how it turned out in the morning, will do a test layup and get a test run out monday or tuesday. Ill open a new thread for pre orders once I get a satisfied run finished. Thank you all for your paticence.

CleenSweep
08-15-2005, 05:30 PM
Can't wait to see these. I know I'm in for a set of Emag panels!

my email (jerryfinchum@yahoo.com)

HOMELANDEFENDER
08-18-2005, 09:43 PM
I'd like to be on the "LIST" as well...

HLD (http://HOMELANDEFENDER@MSN.COM)

HLD...

Flossabe
08-19-2005, 12:20 AM
First lay up with the new mold turned out great, will continue to lay up until it looks good.

Flossabe
08-21-2005, 10:51 PM
New silicone mold is working exclently. Ill be finished with the next to last layup tomarrow night and Ill post some pics of the progress, if everything goes like it has been I should be ready to take orders next week.

mobius
09-27-2005, 07:47 PM
Are we any closer to a finished product? :)

11 Bravo
09-27-2005, 10:17 PM
Yeh whats up? lets get some pics. Are you going to make them for Emags also? :clap:

RazorMonkey
09-28-2005, 06:25 PM
I've just decided that he's leading us on until he gives us some proof that he's actually doing anything... It's been months upon months with no proof whatsoever... lol

bunny5
09-28-2005, 07:11 PM
can i give u money yet? ;)

Rudz
09-29-2005, 01:03 AM
waiting and waiting and still waiting, hmm, look at this guys first post, it was like last year, and were coming to an end of another month???? cmon guy i mean ur just teasing us, we want these so bad and we dont even have picks :dance: :dance:

11 Bravo
10-04-2005, 01:09 PM
:confused: :confused: :confused: :cry: :cry: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Major Ho
10-04-2005, 10:29 PM
It was too much waiting for me so I went online and picked up some carbon fiber panels and took a jigsaw to them. Didnt turn out THAT bad :D
Perhaps Ill post pics one day

11 Bravo
10-10-2005, 02:33 PM
Too long a wait for me to. I bought colored grips from luke.

Troen
10-17-2005, 04:45 PM
dead?

chefstevie
10-18-2005, 07:05 PM
I've just decided that he's leading us on until he gives us some proof that he's actually doing anything... It's been months upon months with no proof whatsoever... lol


sounds just about right...

Rudz
10-19-2005, 12:35 AM
OK NOW LET IT DIE :sleeping: :sleeping: :( :(

Ratt
02-03-2006, 01:58 PM
Can't let it die...Where are the grips? Hello???...anyone here???