Is CO2 obsolete

[king4eternity]

Hi All,

I have a 68 automag and was thinking of upgrading. However, I have been doing some research and found that compressed air or nitrogen increases performance significantly. Especially in areas of:

1. Chambre fillup times
2. Rapid fire responses
3. Liquid build up
4. Less frequent velocity changes
5. etc....

My questions are:

1. Will the 68 auto mag level 7 work with nitrogen or compressed air? My guess is it can't because its design will only allow a max of 350psi before the safty valve kicks in.

2. Will CO2 eventually become obsolete? I am guessing it will as the demand for better performance increases.

3. Do paintball guns really perform better on compressed air and nitrogen than guns with CO2? Probably a dumb question because it appears I just answered that, however, I would like to get a consensus.

4. Should the average consumer, who might become a serious PB player, lean towards buying a starter gun that is powered by nitrogen or compressed air?


King :cheers:

[king4eternity]

I just re-checked the specs for the 68 AM L7 and need to make a correction about the MAX psi in the chambre.

Its MAX is not 350psi, but 550psi before the blow off valve kicks in. This can translate to about 340fps. Not too shabby for a CO2 power.


King :cheers:

[Evil Emperor]

Yes your lvl 7 will work fine with HP and work much better since in rapid fire Co2 can freeze your orings to the point were you gun wont fire.
Yes HP will make your gun perform better becouse it provides a consistent air supply while Co2 has to convert from liquid to a gas and your pressure goes up and down as you play.

[frop]

My questions are:

1. Will the 68 auto mag level 7 work with nitrogen or compressed air? My guess is it can't because its design will only allow a max of 350psi before the safty valve kicks in.

2. Will CO2 eventually become obsolete? I am guessing it will as the demand for better performance increases.

3. Do paintball guns really perform better on compressed air and nitrogen than guns with CO2? Probably a dumb question because it appears I just answered that, however, I would like to get a consensus.

4. Should the average consumer, who might become a serious PB player, lean towards buying a starter gun that is powered by nitrogen or compressed air?


King :cheers:

1) Yeah, it'll work. The pressure in the dump chamber is irrelevant as to C02/HPA compatibility.]

2) CO2 already is obsolete, it's been obsolete since TK created the first N2 tank, it's still used mainly b/c of price(high initial cost for HPA),availibility in some areas, and the natural resistance of many people to change.

3) As in, will you have to crank down your velocity a whole lot? No,not really, HPA's primary advantage is consistency.

4) Frankly, no. I say that b/c the avg consumer in PB is a minor, no job, only chores as ioncome, and may or may not be spoiled by parents. The prob again is the high initial costs of an HPA system. THe best bet is to go HPA if and when a player decides to become serious.

[xballfan780]

i dont think co2 will ever become obsolete , because newbs and people who dont want to spend over 25 bucks on a tank will never want to buy a 80-200 doller tank. So unless hpa tanks drop there valve , I belive that co2 will be around for a long time.

[king4eternity]

The feedback is great! Much appreciated!

I used to be a serious PB player a looooooong time ago, but school and money became a factor and I had to give it up. That said, I have been introduced to alot of new concepts of PB in the last week as I have been asked just recently to get back into it. Ready and pumped just thinking I can get into it just like that, I realize PB is in a new age. So, I am having a hard time with coming to grips with the reality of being a newbie all over again. ahhhhhhhhhhh....not like there is n e thing wrong with that. :cry:

How do I get my L7 to run on hpa? Can I just plug it in or do I need a speciall adapter and tank?

I think I am going to stick with my L7, my guess is it is still a great gun and with a few modifications (one being the L10 upgrade) and $300 dollars later I can be up there as far as bing in sync with 'the new age of PB'.

King :cheers:

[frop]

PPL still buy 'obsolete' things, i.e. a computer that aint top of the line. THe point is that there is better technology out there & in use.

King:
Yeah, just screw in the tank, chrony, & start rockin! Hey, you're only a half-noob, so it's ok :p

[trains are bad]

2) CO2 already is obsolete, it's been obsolete since TK created the first N2 tank, it's still used mainly b/c of price(high initial cost for HPA),availibility in some areas, and the natural resistance of many people to change.

No. HPA is NOT superior in every way to CO2. CO2 is NOT obsolete. Co2 still does some things better than HPA, in some applications it is superior. HPA is just more idoit proof, works better across all platforms and in more situations. If you know what you're doing with co2 you will never say that it is obsolete.

But yeah, mags run terrible on CO2, get hpa asap, even if it's a classic.

[Titansu]

No, you exhale it after every breath. :D

[jamescell]

I must say hpa is a must for any mag owner. The biggest advantage I have found with hpa is self fills. A very small investment and you can get a scuba, outlaw paint ball needed this years ago! I run a small field behind my house and the fact that I can supply air for all my buddies makes the day go by so much smoother. There was nothing I hated more than having to go to the pb store mid day to get co2. Of course the CO2 tanks are so cheap you can get a bunch of them and never have worry about that, but thats just more o-rings you have to replace. My O-rings have been lasting a whole year with hpa.

[warbeak2099]

No. HPA is NOT superior in every way to CO2. CO2 is NOT obsolete. Co2 still does some things better than HPA, in some applications it is superior. HPA is just more idoit proof, works better across all platforms and in more situations. If you know what you're doing with co2 you will never say that it is obsolete.

But yeah, mags run terrible on CO2, get hpa asap, even if it's a classic.

Uh oh, we got a "Palmerite" here!

[Pacifist_Farmer]

C02 will never become.....

ob·so·lete Audio pronunciation of "obsolete" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bs-lt, bs-lt)
adj.

1. No longer in use: an obsolete word.
2. Outmoded in design, style, or construction: an obsolete locomotive.
3. Biology. Vestigial or imperfectly developed, especially in comparison with other individuals or related species; not clearly marked or seen; indistinct. Used of an organ or other part of an animal or plant.


oh wait what does Outmoded mean.....

out·mode Audio pronunciation of "Outmoded" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (out-md)
tr.v. out·mod·ed, out·mod·ing, out·modes

To cause to become unfashionable or obsolete.

stupid english majors that circular reasoning




Which propellant you use depends most likely on where you live and your access to playing fields and their preferred filling medium

[king4eternity]

Yoh dude,

I think the meaning of the title was well understood by the general populace of this forum.

Its not an English class but a PB forum!!

Nice wast of a reply btw...

King :cheers:

[Asym]

The biggest advantage I have found with hpa is self fills.
CO2 self fills are even cheaper, tanks for bulk CO2 fills are much cheaper than a scuba tanks. CO2 tanks need to be hydro tested every 5 years. Scuba I "think" need visual inspections each year and not sure on the hydro requirements. Both cost about the same amount to fill at about $5 a fill, but its the higher initial cost of the tank.


How do I get my L7 to run on hpa? Can I just plug it in or do I need a speciall adapter and tank?
Preset tanks like the crossfire and PMI tanks are screw in tanks with the same threads as your old CO2 tanks, so its just a screw in replacement nothing special needed.

[zzbudzz]

i played last sunday for the first time in about 4 years and i used a 47/3000 tank i bought. it was nice to fill up in about 10 seconds ,walk back on the field and never take the tank off your gun.....just wish i had a 68/4500 fiberwrapped tank " much lighter.. ;)

[NJPaint]

Hi All,
My questions are:

1. Will the 68 auto mag level 7 work with nitrogen or compressed air? My guess is it can't because its design will only allow a max of 350psi before the safty valve kicks in.

2. Will CO2 eventually become obsolete? I am guessing it will as the demand for better performance increases.

3. Do paintball guns really perform better on compressed air and nitrogen than guns with CO2? Probably a dumb question because it appears I just answered that, however, I would like to get a consensus.

4. Should the average consumer, who might become a serious PB player, lean towards buying a starter gun that is powered by nitrogen or compressed air?


King :cheers:

#1 The max input into a 68 classic valve is 3000 psi, no I didn't add an extra 0. I wouldn't recommend it, but it has a built in regulator and you can put that much air into it.

#2 Yes, it will be, it is already becoming that way with the newer fields not having CO2 available.

#3 Yes, HPA is significantly more consistant than CO2. I could go into the physics, but think about it this way. CO2 phase changes, liquid to gas, HPA stays a gas always. It doesn't have huge fluctuations based on temperature.

#4 All players that will play more than once in a while in their backyard should consider HPA as opposed to CO2. Its cheaper usually with all day air and will always perform better.

[TheLaxPlayer]

The only time I have ever had trouble with CO2 is when it is in the 50's or colder. CO2 seems quite consistant on my Lvl 7 mag. Since I don't play much in the cold anyways, and cannot even come close to freezing my valve unless it is pointed at the ground (so liquid is pushed in).

HPA is better, but CO2 is far from being obsolete. It's like having a Ford Taurus (CO2) versus having a Jaguar. There is nothing wrong with the Ford, but there is something better out there.

[Pacifist_Farmer]

Yoh dude,

I think the meaning of the title was well understood by the general populace of this forum.

Its not an English class but a PB forum!!

Nice wast of a reply btw...

King :cheers:


touche :hail:

Edit:

I've noticed that I have a much easier time maintaining/running/adjusting my classic mag when I run CO2, as compared with HPA

The ability to run both mediums in a setup is golden, it makes using different fields, or even rogue ball hassel free, i say everyones first gun should run on both

[frop]

The only time I have ever had trouble with CO2 is when it is in the 50's or colder. CO2 seems quite consistant on my Lvl 7 mag. Since I don't play much in the cold anyways, and cannot even come close to freezing my valve unless it is pointed at the ground (so liquid is pushed in).

HPA is better, but CO2 is far from being obsolete. It's like having a Ford Taurus (CO2) versus having a Jaguar. There is nothing wrong with the Ford, but there is something better out there.

No, it's like a 1968 Malibu vs. a 2005 Malibu. One can argue semantics & individual characteristics, but the fact remains that the '68 is 'obsolete'.

[TheLaxPlayer]

Do what you want, and say what you want, but I'm keeping my steel, CO2 powered Mag. :shooting:

[king4eternity]

Rock on!!

King :shooting:

[minimag03]

I use co2 with my minimag with now problem. You guys have to remember that co2 was what the Automag was originally designed to work with. A major advantage of co2 that I have seen it that the tanks are smaller than compressed air.

minimag03

[WineShark]

I used CO2 on my mag quite successfully. I used a Palmer Stabilizer to keep the liquid out, and it performed well. I used a 68-3000 crossfire too.

The key on when I switched was shot count. My 68-3000 got a whole lot less shots per fill (500-600) than a 12oz CO2. (800+)

So during rec play and short games, the HPA rocked. During scenarios, I popped on the CO2 and redialed and was good to go.

Performance issues aside (HPA has a total advantage there) the issue was volume for: 68- or 88-4500s aren't cheap, although they are getting more reasonable.

Since I have the palmer, I feel pretty safe using preset regulated HPA tanks and still getting good consistency. Now the question is how much will I gain from going to 4500?

[nate2k191]

CO2 blew on my mag, frosty bolt all the time, paint chops, non-consistant firing, constant worries.. more crap

HPA was tons better, i never worried about anything air related, it was no longer a problem.


in the end CO2 is not worthless, you use it when u cant afford an HPA tank.

[CoolHand]

CO2 is not dead, and never will be . . . . . at least not until I am. :D

You just have to be smarter than the average PB'er to make it work in some situations.

That said, the Mag is not the best friend of CO2. Classics deal with it just fine, and XValves will take it for slow speed stuff (ROF, not muzzle velocity), but the Mag's prefered operating pressure is right on the ragged edge of where CO2 wants to become liquid.

Its not undoable, its just harder . . . . . . . . . . so for most people, its undoable. :tard:

Have a good Holiday.

[DaveSM]

The only problem with CO2 is that it freeze o-rings. If it was always at ambient temperature and always a gaz we wouldn't have any problems with CO2. Some markers work great on CO2 and at winter you could use a siphon tank to avoid problems such as slow recharge rate when using CO2. Mags just aren't CO2 friendly as much as some other markers. I already heard of an impulse that was running on CO2 so everything is possible with both gas. Another thing is that if you get CO2 to a lower pressure then the one at wich it become liquid (usually said to be 600 psi) you will never get liquid CO2 in your setup. CO2 and HPA both have their positives and negatives it's up to you to choose wich one you use.

[warbeak2099]

Hell, I've heard of a Timmy running on C02. Dual palmers stabilizers, anti-siphon line, maybe a little CMI/CORE mini x-chamber in between the tank and the asa/female stabilizer. Now that's optimum co2 usage. Sure, you could run most any gun on co2. It's just a matter of controlling it.... and not frying the noid.

[CoolHand]

You are both right, which is why I tend to favor LP guns. Its not hype, its just the nature of my prefered (or rather mandated) propellant.

That would also be why I only own a Classic Mag. Its not cause XValves are not cool ('cause they definitely are), but I can't shoot them as fast on CO2 as I can the Classic.

I also agree that HPA is the easier (and therefore in most cases better) of the two.

Have a good holiday guys.

[trains are bad]

You are both right, which is why I tend to favor LP guns. Its not hype, its just the nature of my prefered (or rather mandated) propellant.

This is true. On hpa, low pressure is hype. On co2, it's most certainly not.