Official how to keep AO alive thread

[Glickman]

Whats your thoughts on this? It was suggested by Tom as a possible way to keep AO up forever. :D

i think on one hand, itll reduce the idiot population if you have to pay ~$10 a year

also, if theres any extra, it could be spent on prizes for the monthly contest


but...

on the other hand, itll hinder the population in total (depends if you like a "tight knit clicks" i guess)




interesting i say, et toi?

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

I wouldn't post here if I have to pay.

[BD_Paintball]

the populaton will go way down if you had to pay any money. there are other forums that people will hang out in and ao will die over time. even people who have been here for a long time will leave to post at some other forum.

[Glickman]

do you think that we would get enough donations to continuously run it?

i think its very possible to miss a month here and there, then what?

[Lohman446]

I guess the question would eb how much would we need? $20, $50 a month - at $50 a month it could easily be done, I would think Deadeye, myself, perhaps Mango, and some others coudl donate. If were talking $1000 a month, likely not

[Will Wood]

It shouldn't cost too much to maintain this site.
200/month max..
But I could be totaly wrong.

[spazzed]

Whatever it takes to to knock down the moron population. :shooting:

[OysterBoy]

Are you all on crack? Nice forum as it is, I wouldn't pay 50 a month just to see whats on mangos mind or which gun is no longer cool.

[gimp]

I think it might help get rid of idiots, but it's gonna get rid of people who aren't idiots too. There will always be morons here. Most people who are morons don't even know it. I don't think it's a problem though. It's not that hard to ignore someone if you want too.

I don't know the financial situation of this website, but if it came to a point where they needed some donations to keep running I'm sure they could get some help. I think the site should always be free, but they could take away some privilages. Make it so you can't attach pictures, or have a sig image or something, but if you've made a donation, you get the extra benefits. Or maybe have a special section for people who have paid.

[Target Practice]

I wouldn't mind paying a small fee in order to post here.

[slade]

as far as the morons: look at the announcement in the pb talk forum looks like cphil is doing his job well :D . I think we should also make sure that only one account can be registered under an IP address; in the case of multiple AOers in one household, you can e-mail a moderator explaning the situation to have more than one account. This would keep one person from registering many accounts and spamming, or bypassing a ban, which is what i would suspect happened in this incident. There seemed to be 6 or so people from Hawaii that registered in one day.

in order to keep AO up, i think it is a good idea to have people pay or at least donate. but you shouldnt have to donate when you join, if i had to pay i would never have joined AO. now that ive been here for a while i would gladly donate $10 a year to keep AO up and running.

[DiSoRdeR]

I think there should be a Donate Button, and when you do you get a little icon next to your name saying that you did.

[Kevmaster]

I guess the question would eb how much would we need? $20, $50 a month - at $50 a month it could easily be done, I would think Deadeye, myself, perhaps Mango, and some others coudl donate. If were talking $1000 a month, likely not

if ao stopped hosting images...the cost would go down, BUT i imagine we're talking $200-300/month to host ao. somewhere $3-4 G per year for this. Could be wrong, but i bet its around there

and, no...we should NEVER go do membership fees...GOOD members will drop like flies...new members will NEVER join

[Glickman]

i would definitly as well $10 sounds reasonable

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Slade- One problem with that. Peoples IP's are changed just about once every 30 days. Although it wont be permanent( spelled that wrong) after 30 days, they'll probably forget.
( I was told this on another forum)

As for donations, aboslutely. Im not sure an admission would work. Many of us are teenagers and we do not have access to credit cards. Although it is only $10, some people's parents may not let them do it.

[White_Noise]

i think disorder may be on to something...isnt that what pbn does?

[xballfan780]

I think if people had to pay to go on ao , I think the donation buttin would be good and a dontation though a thread , just think
If everyone on ao dontated 1 doller

thats what ? alot of dollers :)

[cphilip]

Kevin is right...Its been my observation that pay to post kills a site.

Trying to get Dealers to pay for banners and such is worth a shot. At this point Tom is saying that he retains AO... it did not go to AGD. So we will have to wait and see what he wants to do. For now we can just discuss things.

But I am against Paying for Membership. Because I think it will kill the site. Sponsorship is the way to explore. Is it feasable? I have no idea. But I am going to try and find out....

[personman]

I for one woudn't post anymore if there was a membership fee. It's not that I dont like AO, but a membership fee would give me a reason to get a LIFE.

But a donation button would be great. I would be more than willing to donate to AO. In fact, I've started a topic on donations in the past. AO is a great informative fourm and I would be more than happy to contribute to the AO fund. :)

I think that banners are a good idea. They may clutter up AO a bit, but its something you have to live with. PBN uses banners. I don't know how well they work, maybe you should bring it up with one of the PBN admins or something. I really never actually click on banners, I ignore them mostly. I dont know if other people do this as well, and if they do, then banners won't be very effective..

Edit:
What you might consider doing is disabling attachments.. I know that lots of people have grown to depend on them or whatever, but disabling people's ability to post pictures of retarded animated mortal kombat characters and other stupid pictures would cut down on bandwith :)

[Thordic]

Google AdSense is a good way to raise money for a site. Its working out pretty well on our game server site to help pay for the servers.

[Dubstar112]

I agree.. membership fee's are well over due if it the only solution. It was made clear a while ago that the financial costs of AO were high, by TK. I think we should incorporate a democratic system into AO.

Instead of all these little pie and what not revolutions doing nothing, form parties, divide the active portion of AO into groups, each having their own plan, and nominate their leader. When it comes down to a vote for president, that is the leader. Next we need sub levels, etc.... Some form of government is needed.

{mis informed}

[ScatterPlot]

Here's an idea. Put in a donation button, and underneath everyone's post count put in the amount they have donated. I dunno if it's possible with this code, but I bet we could figure it out somehow. It's time for the era of the donation whore who donates to up his amount. This would keep a good system going of who is really who in AO. Post counts used to mean something, now the whores have started to skew everything. A donation count would be just the answer; who REALLY is an AO'er?


But other than that- I think a pay for certain privaleges idea would be nice. Something like sig images maybe, probably not limit it to the posting of attachments altogether. Maybe an increased attachment limit to those who pay, kinda like Hotmail does.





My final thoughts? Donation meter. That would be bangin'.

[felony]

My final thoughts? Donation meter. That would be bangin'.

dont know if it would be banging, but it would be neato

[Miscue]

Anybody remember Paintballcity? :p

[Koosh]

Anybody remember Paintballcity? :p

Nope

And the lesson is, don't charge for forums...

[felony]

Nope

And the lesson is, don't charge for forums...

why cant you support the forums and then get to use your avatar or something stupid that all of us want?

dont give supporting memebers awesome privies, but give them a reason to support and make sure it doesnt make those who dont support not feel feel left out.

sometihng stupid like more available smilies, avatars, free dm4s, .. stuff like that

[Koosh]

why cant you support the forums and then get to use your avatar or something stupid that all of us want?

dont give supporting memebers awesome privies, but give them a reason to support and make sure it doesnt make those who dont support not feel feel left out.

sometihng stupid like more available smilies, avatars, free dm4s, .. stuff like that

A long time ago a popular paintball forum called paintballcity tried to charge people just for ACCESS to the forums... no one signed up, and that forum went down...

If AO tries to do the same thing, it'll die too.

So long as there is an option for "normal" people to view the forums, even if they have to deal with banner ads, no sigs, or posting pictures, we should be alright...

[felony]

thats what im saying.

dont screw the people over that dont pay, unless your goal is to run the forums.

i would pay like 10 dollars to be a supporting member and get some more smilies or something. I would pay that once a year, or somethign, but not monthly.

I think you can expect alot of users to sign up for that, but that is MO

[grw4w34]

Ive been a member of AO for a long time and i rarely post. I just like to read whats going on and most of the time my opinion is shared by someone else who post. I would donate when I could, but for me to pay a fee to be here would just make me stick to other places. I have less than 200 post and if i payed 10 bucks a year it would be 5 cents per post for me if i keep going at my rate. Actually more than that considering ive been here for about 4 years. It would be about 20 cents a post if i keep my current post rate. Thats not something i would want to do. I could post more, but i just dont see the point of being a post whore. For the people who post alot i can see how paying might not be a bad idea, however the people like myself would be turned away. The donation thing is a good idea and I would donate.

[Halliday]

I remember some other fourm that went to entry fees. What as the name of it..........? I think I paid once, saw how crappy it had become, and left for......dum dee dum...... PBN. It was just starting then too, as an alternative to the otehr paid forum.

I would not suggest AO become a pay fourm.

[Caffiend]

Charge admission for AO? No, I think it'd die really quick. Donations would be cool, I'd throw a couple of bucks this way. But I think they should be able to offset most of the operating cost through banners and such (just no pop ups). I'd click some banners every day to support AO.

[Bolter]

I for one would contribute to AO if there was an option to.

classifieds is very popular, how about charging a small fee like 0.5% for allowing someone to sell something? (Did that make sense?) This wouldn't cover the costs, but it could be a start if in conjunction with something else.

There should be new rules also like only the thread starter puts his/her sig. Everyone else in the thread removes theres. Things like posting just a smilie would have to go (sorry Mango)

[BobTheCow]

Are you all on crack? Nice forum as it is, I wouldn't pay 50 a month just to see whats on mangos mind or which gun is no longer cool.Whoever guessed $50+ per month meant for the site as a whole, not for how much they suggested any one person should pay.

My thoughts on the issue:
I would pay to access, post, search, whatever... if it's set up, I personally will pay. However, I don't think most people will. Somebody already mentioned these ideas, but what I think would work best would be either A) a donation system, B) a sponsor situation with purchased banner ads and such, C) the ability for individual users to purchase certain privelages such as signatures or avatars or custom titles or PM's or attachments (a la SomethingAwful), or D) some combination of the above 3.

AO needs to stick around. I think it's become much more valuable to AGD, as well as everybody affiliated with the forums, than may be apparent.

[Thordic]

AO won't go anywhere. Theres enough people who care about this site who will cough up the money to keep it going.

If Tom can't figure out a way to keep the site running, theres a few of us out there who will make sure the site stays up somehow.

[Mango]

Just do what many other sites do, they have a premium for those who pay. I say you activate avatars and those who pay get to have an avatar, those who don't pay do not get an avatar. Also, those who pay get special features like the use of the upload server and a special members only forum with pictures and videos. That is the best way to go about it.

[MarkM]

I for one would contribute to AO if there was an option to.

classifieds is very popular, how about charging a small fee like 0.5% for allowing someone to sell something? (Did that make sense?) This wouldn't cover the costs, but it could be a start if in conjunction with something else.

There should be new rules also like only the thread starter puts his/her sig. Everyone else in the thread removes theres. Things like posting just a smilie would have to go (sorry Mango)

All of the ideas will be looked at etc but the easiest one to implement would be NO Attachments hosted on AO's server...this would include pics and signatures...BUT! these can still be allowed as long as you host them elsewhere...this straight away drops some of the running costs for the board since the bandwidth is transferred to another server and since there are plenty of free webspace servers (or IP provided ones) this shouldn't make for any issues...in a lot of cases it will stop a lot of people attaching pics since they may have to pay for them to be attached ;) I have set up a seperate section on my server to upload pics to for my use online a few weeks ago. Even though I have used AO as a host at times it wouldn't hurt me for those hosted pics to go as I could reload them immediately. The ruling would have to be that the pics were within a certain size much the same as we already have for signatures but for pics it would be more important but by now most all people should know how to edit a pic...it doesn't take long to do.
Remember how pleasant it was when the attachment software went on the missing list a while ago?

[cphilip]

I am going to move this thread to Talk and make it the official thread on this subject. So as to not have more keep cropping up.

[Lee]

donation button w/ little "supporer" logo for people who give. ICD owners.com does it that way and it seems to work for them, and, there are a lot more members here.

[Vanced]

Just do what many other sites do, they have a premium for those who pay. I say you activate avatars and those who pay get to have an avatar, those who don't pay do not get an avatar. Also, those who pay get special features like the use of the upload server and a special members only forum with pictures and videos. That is the best way to go about it.

Banners and Ad's is always a good start...

I think Mango's idea is going in the right direction... I have seen it done on many online RPG's message boards and stuff. Admission and useage is free to all... BUT...

Yearly premium's for members who want features such as Signatures ( Wouldn't be AO without um), Upload Pics, Right to use HTML, Smileys ( Cause we all love this guy --> :dance: ), and have a members only area as well... And offer a one time Lifetime membership option for us hardcore AGD fans & to capitalize on the sudden swell of Support for Tom and AO/AGD.

Also consider teaming up with some of our great dealers to create an Exclusive AO line of merchandice that all proceds goes to maintaining AO...

AO will live on as long as we as AO want to support it.....

Just my virtual 2 cents for ya...

[Pickle]

My ideas (for what they are worth)

1. Try donations before banners
2. No pay for use site
3. Having money does not equal getting rid of trolls. Idiots can have money too
4. cphil does a GREAT job here. One of the best mods I have ever seen. Clone him a few times. Seriously, get some more mods like cphil and start cracking some heads. A PBN idiot craack down is in order.
5. I like the merchandise idea
6. I also like the idea of giving supporting members more bells and whistles. Don't make it too exclusive though. One of the neat things about AO is its inclusiveness. That has to remain!

[cphilip]

donation button w/ little "supporer" logo for people who give. ICD owners.com does it that way and it seems to work for them, and, there are a lot more members here.

Ok here is my 2 cents worth

I don't like donations for set operational funds. I don't finance my home budget by variable income. I want to know the Mortgage and Utilities are covered by steady dependable income. So while donations would be fine to stick in the bank for unexpected costs and perhaps for improvement costs they are not dependable enough for daily expenses.

What we must do is trim our costs to a reasonable set amount and secure regular income based on that figure. Through cost trimming and advertising/sponsorships we can accomplish that I think.

Then donations can cover things like hardware and software upgrades. I am not against special privelages for Donors. And not against special privelages for Sponsors and Advertisers either.

I am totaly against membership fee's.

All things on the table though.

[ScatterPlot]

Heh, I hate idiots too. I bet there's a ton of people here that would GLADLY help out as a "sub-mod" or something that would help with moron control.

Aside from a donation count (like a post count), I think that paid-for members should have the ability to use :dance: , but NO ONE ELSE!!! :D

[MindJob]

I dont know why AO wouldnt go to AGD in the long run.... the expense can be written off, Im almost posative.

[Muzikman]

I dont know why AO wouldnt go to AGD in the long run.... the expense can be written off, Im almost posative.


Yeah, it might be a write off, but it still costs money and I don't think that is money that AGD has right now. As for someone who said that it probably only costs $50 a month to run AO is FAR off. I do not know the actual numbers, but my dedicated server with a mear 80GB of space costs me $175 a month. So my guess is that the site costs about $200-$300 a month to run and this doesn't account for any upgrades. I think a Basic / Premium member would be a good idea. I also think trimming the fat off is also a good idea. I think if you did both, AO would be self sustaining. I also have a few other ideas, but I will keep them to myself right now.

[Load SM5]

4. cphil does a GREAT job here. One of the best mods I have ever seen. Clone him a few times.

:eek:
Have you ever seen Phil? If so you would'nt be saying that.

[felony]

i havent read since my last post here, but whatever happens..

dont turn this into MO where people are just not cool.

http://forums.matrixowner.com/viewtopic.php?t=11916

thats a thread i posted in asking about upping your F/S thread and why supporters can do that.

sigh

dont know whats up with that place, it seems those that support get good treatment and everyone else gets the shaft

[felony]

:eek:
Have you ever seen Phil? If so you would'nt be saying that.

hahah

PS.. what does PBN do?

[Vanced]

I dont know why AO wouldnt go to AGD in the long run.... the expense can be written off, Im almost posative.

Because Tom wants to keep us close and loyal to him when he makes his triumphant return like Bob Long and his Intimidator! ;)

:rolleyes: LOL :D

[GT]

How about donations that actually mean something.

20 bucks for an avatar
+20 for image hosting
+20 to post in the classifieds
+Free to herass the mods
+50 for entrence to the donors forum. Be cool to have the paying members there own forum.


There are ways to make donations work, but you have to give something to the donors.

[CRySyS]

You have to be carefull when you start rewarding supporters. If you get carried away you shaft non-supporters and they will go somewhere else. That may sound fine, if they don't support who needs them right? Well they do contribute discussion and that keeps a board alive as much as money.

My idea, Raffles! Monthly, biannual, annual, whatever it takes to make the money flow. Each dollar contributed is a ticket and a drawing is held at the end of the month, half, year, for who wins whatever is on the line. The system can be tweaked to give out more prizes and generate more income or smaller more frequent prizes if need be.

I know I'd donate for a chance to win an RT Pro once a year. Or a ULE body or LV10 or ULT. With the number of active uses here you should be able to easily generate much more than the cost of the prize in question.

And then you could get into registered dealers donating prizes in exchange for recognition. Now you have no prize overhead! :clap:

Forgot to add, I'm not completely against rewarding donators, a supporter icon and perhaps image hosting could be your reward on top of the raffle. Just be wary of going too far.

[SummaryJudgement]

Uh, how about getting some advertising money kickin for this site? You know, like how other websites make money..... :eek:

[GA Devil]

I for 1 would be interested in possibly interested in banner space as a dealer. So waiting to hear how that might work.

[Lohman446]

Midwest Paintball Promotions is interested in a banner, I'll figure out what to do with it later. I suppose having a company with a better goal would help me put things closer together, but a banner on AO would be useful (for something Im sure)

[HoppysMag]

i wouldnt post if we had to pay. its not that i don t think the forums worth it, i would donate, but i refuse to pay dues. i fought this same fight over on the phog. to turn this from a forum open to the public into a country club with dues and prerequisits for joining is just too much. its a bad idea and idont think it would have the same amount of diversity it has now

[Z-man]

It is worth noting that membership fees and pay-for-extra features is not a deal breaker. SomethingAwful.com (as you SA Goons know) makes quite a lot off their $10 membership fee. Add to that the VERY tight regulations and auto ban features and they still are getting lots of $$.

Now is AO=SA? no. its smaller and does not have the resources. I would suggest that you start with the least obtrusive of the options. Start with stuff that PBN has. A donate button (as has already been suggested numerous times), well placed obvious but not obnoxious banner ads. If the bills are still not being paid we consider the next steps.

[Kevmaster]

I agree with phil on this. Memberships fees WILL be the downfall of AO. I can't see membership fees for anything other than image hosting. If you do much more than that (and give away a 'supporting member' image) then you are 1) creating an elitist forum and 2) bringing it down.

Membership fees will not keep AO what it is. It will go the way of PBC if people have to pay to come here

I too have a few ideas, but membershipf ees arnt one of them

[Thordic]

All you really need is a small supporters circle. Get 20 people willing to pony up $10 a month, or 40 willing to put up $5 a month, or whatever it takes.

I'd be willing to do that. Nothing about the site would have to change. I'd want the site to stay exactly the same.

You could set up banners, or AdSense, or have raffles, or whatever to help defray the cost further.

I don't think supporters need anything extra, personally. Just knowing that you are able to give back to the AO community should be enough. Maybe a credits page with a list of supporters, but thats about it.

[AGD]

Guys,

I am guestimating that overall it costs about 1000 bucks a month to run this site. I agree that a sign up fee is a waist of time and will kill AO off. I do think that donations are a good idea with bonus stuff for doing so like sigs and avatars. It may make sense to charge a yearly membership fee to list stuff in the classifieds.

AGD

[MonsterMag]

Guys,

I am guestimating that overall it costs about 1000 bucks a month to run this site. I agree that a sign up fee is a waist of time and will kill AO off. I do think that donations are a good idea with bonus stuff for doing so like sigs and avatars. It may make sense to charge a yearly membership fee to list stuff in the classifieds.

AGD

Tom , are you gonna stay on ao?

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

but then the classifieds on ao would bomb and everyone would do business on pbn

[fire1811]

just put a paypal button on AO and i would have no problem donating

[Magaman]

Guys,

I am guestimating that overall it costs about 1000 bucks a month to run this site. I agree that a sign up fee is a waist of time and will kill AO off. I do think that donations are a good idea with bonus stuff for doing so like sigs and avatars. It may make sense to charge a yearly membership fee to list stuff in the classifieds.

AGD

I say,

-$10.00/month for anyone that wants to post in the Dealers Forum... (Include sigs and posting in all other merchant/sales forums)
-$Donations of $1.00/month you can have your sigs...
-$Donations of $2.00/month or more, you can also sell in the general sales forums (Not Dealers)...

That should be very reasonable... :bounce:

[68magOwner]

id give a lil ~$5 donation, got to remember, paintballers=poor

[Thordic]

I talked to John (Paintcheck) about how much it would cost to keep AO up.

If we disabled image hosting, it would be easily feasible to keep the site up with member contributions.

[Target Practice]

I talked to John (Paintcheck) about how much it would cost to keep AO up.

If we disabled image hosting, it would be easily feasible to keep the site up with member contributions.


I'd be more than happy to contribute.

[felony]

Guys,

I am guestimating that overall it costs about 1000 bucks a month to run this site. I agree that a sign up fee is a waist of time and will kill AO off. I do think that donations are a good idea with bonus stuff for doing so like sigs and avatars. It may make sense to charge a yearly membership fee to list stuff in the classifieds.

AGD

holy shenanigans..

absoulute craziness

just wanna say thanks TK before this all gets shut down.. hahha

jk

dan

[jayloo]

TK, I have been round and round with the banner / donate thing. It is a tough deal. No one wants to even pay tiny advertising fees $5 or $10 a month. No offense but out of all the folks that say they will donate less than 10% really will.

The key is to fund AO by a different source. Coming out of the AGD bucket on $ was the best solution. If you have to rely on banners/donations and /or membership fees AO will die a slow death.

This site is expensive to host. Its just not hardware and then slap vbullitin on it. Someone has to be paid to maintain the server(s) daily checking for security, capacity and the like.

TK, I offer this for the sake of AO. I have several servers that could accomodate the entire AO site and database(s). Yes, including bandwidth too. I offer this at no charge. There is no catch. All of my servers are paid for through a different non-paintball related business that I own.

You could drop the membership fee thing and the pay to post in classifides thing and just let everyone post like normal. 0 change. Whoever owns it still will, Ill only host it.

If interested pm/email me. I can help if it is needed. If not point me toward the donate button ...I got some cash in paypal.

Jason

[Lohman446]

I never considered it being $1000 a month - while I am willing to help, and Im sure others are - that requires 20 people willign to give $50 a month - I'm in if you find the other 19.... but I forsee that being hard

[BD_Paintball]

we might have a solution. now we just have to have tom see this
:) . i would hate to see this site go down b/c it is a great environment.

[felony]

TK, I have been round and round with the banner / donate thing. It is a tough deal. No one wants to even pay tiny advertising fees $5 or $10 a month. No offense but out of all the folks that say they will donate less than 10% really will.

The key is to fund AO by a different source. Coming out of the AGD bucket on $ was the best solution. If you have to rely on banners/donations and /or membership fees AO will die a slow death.

This site is expensive to host. Its just not hardware and then slap vbullitin on it. Someone has to be paid to maintain the server(s) daily checking for security, capacity and the like.

TK, I offer this for the sake of AO. I have several servers that could accomodate the entire AO site and database(s). Yes, including bandwidth too. I offer this at no charge. There is no catch. All of my servers are paid for through a different non-paintball related business that I own.

You could drop the membership fee thing and the pay to post in classifides thing and just let everyone post like normal. 0 change. Whoever owns it still will, Ill only host it.

If interested pm/email me. I can help if it is needed. If not point me toward the donate button ...I got some cash in paypal.

Jason

if this does go through, i still support a AO supportor tag or something to help ya out. Even if that means 1% of the total costs. more of a thank you

dan

[Glickman]

supporter button sounds cool

ill still end up donating if we go on jay's server


youll probably call it retarted, but what if like 5 people put their "donations"
together, and bought a banner?

the moneys still going to the same place, and there would be a banner saying:

CHUFF CHUFF!


or whatever


:D



also, waht about a fee of like $30 to sticky a classifieds for 3 days?

thought that was a decent idea on pbnation's part

[Chronobreak]

lol if ao goes down you guys are welcome on the pbn/agd forum :p i will pwn you ;)


disabling hosting as in we cant post pics..only links? or allowing attachments to be mad e directly to AO?

if its the latter ide say go for it..thers TONS of free hopsting sites ont eh net FIND ONE :coughjayloo

ide happily donate and yes im a poor college baller :(

anyone remember when we offered to donate to ao like 3 months ago and tom erfused...well gues he took off and left the check...

w/e happens im sure it will work out for the better

[NewMagMan21]

OK guys heres what I think we should do ( this may have been said already) I gotta couple Ideas

Theres like 19000 people posting(or sitting around, watching ect.) right
Hold monthly raffles for donated, purchased, sponsered Items and charge 1 dollar per ticket think if less than a 19th of people buy in at a time we'd have the money to run for like a month.

Or Like someone said have a donation button that is on the side of the screen.
It could be used for money and Items

Or why not do what other sites do: sell space for other paintball adds. It may take away from the whole AGD site but if it keeps the site going so be it. Just stay away from about a million pop ups every screen... that sux.

Hope these might help but tell me if they've been said before. MORE IDEAS COMING SOON

[Thunder Bunny]

I think there should be a Donate Button, and when you do you get a little icon next to your name saying that you did.
Most boards I'm on have some sort of perk for donating, like pic hosting, edit buttons, avatars, etc. Donations are $20 for a year.

So, you don't have to pay, but you get bonus features if you do.

[Kevmag]

Guys,

I am guestimating that overall it costs about 1000 bucks a month to run this site. I agree that a sign up fee is a waist of time and will kill AO off. I do think that donations are a good idea with bonus stuff for doing so like sigs and avatars. It may make sense to charge a yearly membership fee to list stuff in the classifieds.

AGD

Is the new owner going to keep making products and supporting existing owners? $1000/mo is nothing. What is the cost of hiring another tech support person? Way more than that... I would keep it up just for the technical support aspect.

[Glickman]

Is the new owner going to keep making products and supporting existing owners? $1000/mo is nothing. What is the cost of hiring another tech support person? Way more than that... I would keep it up just for the technical support aspect.

from what ive heard, tom will be keeping AO for now, but it seems dave has something up his sleeve... :ninja: :ninja: :clap:

[Chronobreak]

from what ive heard, tom will be keeping AO for now, but it seems dave has something up his sleeve... :ninja: :ninja: :clap:

w/e happened to that magsmith.com thing? ;) :confused:

[NewMagMan21]

I havent been here very long but why is this a problem. How did you guys get money before. And what really has changed I mean maybe its more complicted than Im aware of but just cuz management has changed what changes on the site if Tom picked up the tab why cant Dave ( that sounds selfish, sorry but still) Thats my bit
But still if you need em MORE IDEAS COMING

[WARPED1]

I wouldn't post here if I have to pay.
Ditto.............

[deadeye9]

AO could save alot of money by not paying the mods :)

[cphilip]

AO could save alot of money by not paying the mods :)

they would save nothing... because it pays nothing...

I want to point out that Toms figures include both AGD's site AND AO. So its not going to cost that much to just do AO.... and there are things in the works to reduce that significantly. So hold on to your hats. Remember that at this time... AO and AGD are seperate. I got no indication AGD wants to pick up AO. And there is no reason to expect AO to host AGD's site either. So don't get too worried. It will all shake out in the next month or so.

[GA Devil]

Guys,

I am guestimating that overall it costs about 1000 bucks a month to run this site. I agree that a sign up fee is a waist of time and will kill AO off. I do think that donations are a good idea with bonus stuff for doing so like sigs and avatars. It may make sense to charge a yearly membership fee to list stuff in the classifieds.

AGD


Honestly I think take donations and for those that donate make them recognized by something under their name "supporting member" sorta like pbn does for people. And on top of that, sell banner space to your dealers. It works for others and will take some burden off 1 persons shoulders.

[NewMagMan21]

Hey that was my Idea... :cool: ^^^

[GA Devil]

Hey that was my Idea... :cool: ^^^


Yeah i wasnt taking the credit or anythign for it..just my 42 cents worth of opinion.

[NewMagMan21]

No I was just kidding, ;) but anyway back on topic....
Im sure that with the combined efforts/Ideas of everyone AO will stay running without a problem.

Oh yea shouldn't this be "stickied" its kinda important

[Thordic]

Oh yea shouldn't this be "stickied" its kinda important


The bottom line is, AO isn't going anywhere.

If Tom can't find a way to make it cost-effective for him to keep it up and manage it himself, theres a group of members willing to get together to make sure that enough money is donated/raised to keep the site going. Nothing would change, same site and mods and whatnot.

I've already been in contact with the guys who host AO to doublecheck on prices and whatnot and we have a backup plan in the works in case it's needed. So is AO somehow stumbles, some of us will catch it.

[hitech]

...well gues he took off and left the check...


No he has not.

[luke]

(Quote by Dave Zupan)

"This is my 1st post here

I started reading OA only last evening after TK posted the "news" of the current bussiness here at AGD. I will read the rest of this thread now, but I may not post much or anything till later this evening. I have been very busy over the past week or so, and will be very busy for the next week or so with all the legal and bank stuff.

I hope to continue on the path Tom has beaten, and add a few cul-de-sacs along the way.
Things shouldn't change too much from the outside view into AGD, I will only try to add to the history, not erase history. There will be some internal restructuring, but it should not dramaticly affect the customers & fans of the AGD products.

More later, Thank You ALL

zupe
(Dave Zupan)

ps: I have a proposal for Tom and AO "

It sounds like he may be interested in being part of AO some how. I wonder why he doesn't just buy it.

[hitech]

It sounds like he may be interested in being part of AO some how. I wonder why he doesn't just buy it.

I have always questioned whether AO was worth it financially to AGD. I actually got the chance to question Tom about it. He said that is was more than worth it because members did things like his marketing design work (slogans, graphics, etc), provided good feed back on new products and helped with market research (kind of like how I get custom products designed for me at a minimal cost ;) ). Since none of that is going on right now, it would seem to me that AO isn't worth it financially to AGD. However, I know nothing of the future... ;)

[Cyberious]

How about this?

-Free membership allows posting but no attachments. (Folks could still host their pictures elsewhere and provide a link)
-$10 yearly fee allows basically what we are able to do today.
- Charge for Ad's that appear in the space that AGD's ads do today.

As has been stated I think that if we lower the space used to house attachments that costs would go way down. Also, perhaps for those that do have attachments they could be automatically stripped out after 60 days maybe.

[Mango]

$10 a year will NOT be enough to pay the $1000.00 a month operating fee tom says there is.

[Muzikman]

CPR is the answer....

Mago, you do mouth to monitor and I'll start the keyboard compressions!

We need a defibulator STAT!

[Lohman446]

$10 a year will NOT be enough to pay the $1000.00 a month operating fee tom says there is.

Mango's right on this - it sounds like Thordic is already working on putting together a backup group that can come up with the fundage if needed. Thordic, if more help is needed in that contact me. As I pointed out, getting 100 people to donate $10 a month might be a problem as it requires more people to commit, but I expect we could find 20 people to donate $50 a month. I agree with Thordic also on this one though, if we do get it caugth by a small group, that everything we know should be kept the same as much as possible - same mods etc..

PS - there are a few of us, or more, that can right off any contribution to AO as a business expense.

[v_3Sterns]

I need some numbers, what kind of hosting is this site on, is it a co-lo machine or just using space on someone else's, a monthly traffic report would also help, how much are you paying each month.

Also if it is your own machine, what size is it? 1u? 4u? or some sun Ultra 2 that will require its own tray.

Seriously get me this info in a pm or whatnot, I work at a local isp and have alot of friends who are sysadmins at a couple different CO-LO and line providers around town.

Couldn't hurt to see if I could find you a lower price.

- Ken

[Chronobreak]

cyb sounds GREAT but am i one of the few who still thinks agd should pick up a sizeable portion of the tab? after all the help section alone must save them thousands a year if not more? without AO..good luck getting good help with the one tech guy working :rolleyes:

[v_3Sterns]

$10 a year will NOT be enough to pay the $1000.00 a month operating fee tom says there is.


Wonder how much they are charging him per GB of traffic.

[BD_Paintball]

if you do get this group of people that are willing to pay per month for ao and something happens where some poeple cant pay. who will pick up the extra money?

[luke]

I have always questioned whether AO was worth it financially to AGD. I actually got the chance to question Tom about it. He said that is was more than worth it because members did things like his marketing design work (slogans, graphics, etc), provided good feed back on new products and helped with market research (kind of like how I get custom products designed for me at a minimal cost ;) ). Since none of that is going on right now, it would seem to me that AO isn't worth it financially to AGD. However, I know nothing of the future... ;)


For ALL the reasons you stated is why I think it needs to stay in the hands of "AGD" regardless of who the owner is. I've been here for years because it was a direct link to the owner.

On a side note, I've had plans for the last 3 years (which I spent every day working towards) to start a business that had some kind of tie to AGD. It's only been underway for 6 months or so and as of yesterday I'm not sure where it's going to go.

There are allot of things I'm capable of doing in my shop weather it involves cars, motorcycles, iron work, sheet metal, machining, etc, etc. But what I REALLY want to do is what I started out to do originally, and that was to start a line of customs for Mags.

One thing I'm sure of is if AO changes much I'll have to move on and I really don't want to. I've always believed in AGD (Tom) and now with the changes it's really shaken things up.

I guess my view point is purely selfish, but I really wonder if AO will loose it's luster without a direct link to AGD?????

[Muzikman]

To many AO is an asset, but all in all it is still just an owners group and for that matter the only owners group that was owned by the company making the product. AO will still be here people will still help with problems, it will just be owned by a person rather than a company. I do not see this a bad thing and for AGD it's a good thing.

[WARPED1]

Webby should buy it back! :p

[Muzikman]

It was never Webby's to start with...so he can't really buy it back.

[Thordic]

Webby should buy it back! :p

Webby never owned it.

AGD bought it from Flamebo.

[WARPED1]

I thought AGD bought it from him originally? I could've sworn he was the original owner.

[Thordic]

Nope, it was Flamebo and maybe one other guy.

[luke]

To many AO is an asset, but all in all it is still just an owners group and for that matter the only owners group that was owned by the company making the product. AO will still be here people will still help with problems, it will just be owned by a person rather than a company. I do not see this a bad thing and for AGD it's a good thing.

Yes, I agree completely.

Just to clarify, AO is an asset for me but really only an asset for a labor of love. I don't really make any money in terms of what I spent in order to make the things I do. It does keep me off the couch, which is why I do it. (Besides being an AGD fan) ;) Actually I have to have a full time job just to run my business, so, it's more of a hobby if anything...

It's definitely an owners group first, but personally I think it's biggest success was because owners had the ear of AGD. I don't know if I would have visited 5-7 days a week for the past 4 years if it were different. How much will change when (if) that's gone?

[hitech]

On a side note, I've had plans for the last 3 years (which I spent every day working towards) to start a business that had some kind of tie to AGD. It's only been underway for 6 months or so and as of yesterday I'm not sure where it's going to go.

...but I really wonder if AO will loose it's luster without a direct link to AGD?????

Actually one of my first thought was what effect would this have on those making custom parts for 'mags. There is a lot of nice stuff out there. And it appeared that more was/is on the way. I'd hate to see that stop or slow. But I'm afraid it will. Hopefully the warp quick-disconnect will still be available after the New Year. ;)


...but I really wonder if AO will loose it's luster without a direct link to AGD?????

I wonder that also. Tom had stopped posting very much, and AO seems to have lost some of its luster during that time (hence why I saw something coming). I'm afraid that it's going to get worse. :(

On a side note, I don't imagine you can make electrical solenoids, can you? How about a redesigned on/off valve? I have so many ideas' kicking around in my head... ;)

:cheers:

[Cyberious]

[QUOTE=Mango]$10 a year will NOT be enough to pay the $1000.00 a month operating fee tom says there is.[/QUOTE


I agree if things stay the way they are. However, having managed a forum webspace before there are lots of things you can do that will subtantially lower your bandwidth consumption. A few that seem to make the biggest difference are expiring old accounts that haven't logged in for "X" number of months, not storing attachments, and limiting those attachments you do upload. When I did this on a few of my older forums I lowered the space used by a factor of 5. Within that charging for the ads can help pick up some of the slack.

[InexactMelissa]

they would save nothing... because it pays nothing...

I want to point out that Toms figures include both AGD's site AND AO. So its not going to cost that much to just do AO.... and there are things in the works to reduce that significantly. So hold on to your hats. Remember that at this time... AO and AGD are seperate. I got no indication AGD wants to pick up AO. And there is no reason to expect AO to host AGD's site either. So don't get too worried. It will all shake out in the next month or so.

Really? AGD doesn't want to pick up AO? Crap...that means that we are all just a bunch of inbred internet geeks. Well, regardless....there's tons of good ideas out there, notably:

1. reduce bandwidth by not hosting images on the ao server
2. include an easy way to make donations
3. offer supporter perks...I'm gonna say only one or two levels to keep the site very distinct from becoming a 'pay' site
4. offer advertising space in banners or sidebars...we're a lot of members that companies will pay to reach, but they never would have thought to do so when we were tied to agd.

Other items that I don't think have been addressed, though I admit to not having read carefully are:
1. What is the exact bandwidth breakdown? Is it mainly pictures...are people using the ao server as hosting space? Is a lot of traffic coming from chat? Is the BB code bloated and inefficient?
2. Where are the referrals to the site coming from? What is the new sign-up rate? Is it all usage from repeat members or are we gaining new members and new traffic at a rate that we can track and calculate?
3. Number two will be helpful as we are going to have to become a self-supporting entity. That means marketing AO separate from AGD. Maybe we will have to buy ad space somewhere to get a click-thru rate on donations or memberships that will be favorable.
4. Who will be the owning entity? That's important because there are legal ramifications, for example COPPA, that require some degree of responsibility.

I dunno...I really want to see AO continue, but at this point, as big as it is, it is a huge responsibility, and basically a business that needs to be run. My only ecommerce experience is in porn, which probably isn't applicable here. There's a bunch of different ways that I can think of to do it, but the main thing is to get the facts straight and a business plan in place because of all the lazy slobs that we are, it will just become an embarassing debacle without the appropriate leadership, guidance, and capital.

[cphilip]

Really? AGD doesn't want to pick up AO?

That I never ment to imply... because I don't know that yet. Remains to be seen. I don't think it will be answered until maybe the first of the year.

But I can tell you that there are several fixes already there if it does not. And AO will continue on. Without any problem. I am aware of about four alternatives already in place to host AO. Very generous members here are ready to step to the plate. And I am going to keep them quite. But best case scenario is that AGD keep directly affiliated because thier site and AO exist on the same server. But its not totaly nessicary if they cannot. Just a bit more work is all.

[1stdeadeye]

What the heck is going on? :confused:

[Lohman446]

Deadeye, quick update.

TK retired from AGD - but kept AO and has said it is going to have to become self-supportive somehow (though it sounds like Dave Zupan (?), the new owner of AGD may be reconsidering the value of AGD having AO).

If TK cannot make AO self-supportive then we are going to have to find an alternative. Jayloo has offered to host (most generously). TK estimates that (includign hosting) it costs about $1000 a month to run AO. If other things fall through there is going to have to be an alternative - such as all members paying a fee, which I think would kill AO. Without it we are goign to have to have a handful of members (sounds like Phil might have) to pay a larger portion. Your name has been nominated :D

[Thordic]

My only ecommerce experience is in porn, which probably isn't applicable here.


Am I the only one that caught that?

[cphilip]

... Without it we are goign to have to have a handful of members (sounds like Phil might have) to pay a larger portion...

What we have are offers for free server hosting of the site. And at very reduced costs. We may need some minor equipment is all. Most of that we can find easily. Some we already know where it is. Although there would probably have to be some reduction in service like picture hosting (reasonable to expect)... most of the efforts will be to reduce costs first if it moves off this server... so that it's then very feasible to run on Adds and Donations very easily. I don't think the current costs are reasonable to expect that. So it would be the first step. And thats what members here are doing for us behind the scenes. But there is very much we can do to reduce those costs... significantly. And easily and pretty much painlessly.

But again.... It's all rather up in the air until we see what AGD wants to do. And Tom takes some time off and decides what he wants to do. But the offers are there. Enough to know its sound. And encouraging enough to know that it AO will continue. Without fear. But it will be the first part of next year before we see which direction we will go. But we will "go on"... no doubt about it now.

[1stdeadeye]

Deadeye, quick update.

TK retired from AGD - but kept AO and has said it is going to have to become self-supportive somehow (though it sounds like Dave Zupan (?), the new owner of AGD may be reconsidering the value of AGD having AO).

If TK cannot make AO self-supportive then we are going to have to find an alternative. Jayloo has offered to host (most generously). TK estimates that (includign hosting) it costs about $1000 a month to run AO. If other things fall through there is going to have to be an alternative - such as all members paying a fee, which I think would kill AO. Without it we are goign to have to have a handful of members (sounds like Phil might have) to pay a larger portion. Your name has been nominated :D


Thank you. I read in Tom's retirement thread that he is leaving AGD. Where was the keeping AO thing at? Same thread?

How much $$$ are they looking to raise?

[Beemer]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1713974#post1713974
see post #27

[Bad_Dog]

I think there should be a Donate Button, and when you do you get a little icon next to your name saying that you did.
this seys it all to me...

[Lohman446]

I don't know how to do the quote thing from another source thia was posted in the welcome Dave to AO thread, by Zupe (Dave / AGD)


I talked to Tom this afternoon and told him I am...

I talked to Tom this afternoon and told him I am willing to pay the bills to keep AO
here while I am operating AGD! :tard: Tom said OK. :cheers:

You all seem like a good :dance: :dance: ...