Since when is Mark M a mod?

[Thordic]

And why is he harassing people about selling stuff other than paintball stuff on AO?

Its never been against AO policy to sell whatever the hell you wanted on here. I've seen people sell all sorts of things.

Now we get a new mystery moderator (who IMO has been a little too outspoken to be considered for a mod position) who threatens a user with a 10-day because he was trying to sell some DVDs and whatnot.

Sorry but this just ticks me off a little bit. Theres no need for it.

[behemoth]

I got a PM. he said others did aswell...

I thougth the same thing thor...
-Josh

[GT]

I think he has been a mod for awhile but has stayed in the Angel sub forum

[hobbesTZ]

I think he has been a mod for awhile but has stayed in the Angel sub forum

Pretty much.

I guess he has something against DVDs.

[cphilip]

Yes.... he has been a Mod in Angel forum for quite some time. He has always had power to mod outside there, by default, but just did not. Recently he was given the OK by Tom to do so as his time zone coincided with a down time for Moderators over here.

Now as to the Selling of non paintball items in Classifieds. Well... in the past I personaly have always just ignored them if they were not offensive or illegal materials. And I still do. However it is a paintball forum and it does say its for "other paintball items". So it's within the rules to not allow non paintball items to be sold there. But me... I don't really care outside of what I previously listed as taboo. But I don't speak for all the other Mods. It's clearly within the rules to not allow them. If some of them want to spend (or waste) their time on monitoring that, then its certainly not something that needs defending. It's the rules. I for one.. do not intend to mess too much with that issue as I got more important things on my plate than that. It's low on my priorities.

[cphilip]

He's been a mod for a while now...guess you hadnt noticed.

It seems with the recent influx of troublemakers(Cphilips announcment up top) that Mark and the other mods have a little bit more freedom to exercise their powers.

No.... well... those two things are unrelated. Just happened that way. Explanation in my post above.

The influx of trouble makers is rather periodic. It happens about twice a year. Just timing is all.

In fact... while I was dealing with a few of them and making that announcement... Tom announced his retirement and I missed it because I was in edit of my Anouncement the whole while. I really don't know if I would have even bothered to deal with it had I known that while Tom was typing his good bye, I was typing things to keep things running. After hitting the post button I saw his announcement on the reload. Took the wind out of my sails for a while.

[-=Squid=-]

"For all other paintball gear and other items not relating to the other catagories."

According to the rules of the English language, and according to the rules of said forum, it is ok to sell non-pb things there.

I get a lot of PMs from MarkM, and no other mods, mind you, all related to very unimportant things. It gets old.

- Goro

[Thordic]

I also think threatening a 10-day ban for selling items is pretty damn harsh.

The thread was selling a bunch of stuff, which included paintball gear and other things in a single thread. And squid has a point about the wording.

[cphilip]

"For all other paintball gear and other items not relating to the other catagories."

According to the rules of the English language, and according to the rules of said forum, it is ok to sell non-pb things there.

I get a lot of PMs from MarkM, and no other mods, mind you, all related to very unimportant things. It gets old.

- Goro

Well there your wrong again. Probably because your trying to take it out of context to where it exists....Let me dissect it for you

the Forum is "Misc. Paintball Items"

Explanation is "For all other paintball gear and other items not relating to the other catagories." (others being markers and air)

Now let me seperate that for you....

1) Paintball Gear

2) and other items not relating to other categories (remember all under Paintball Misc Items)

Note the other categories are "Markers" and "Air Tanks". So this is everything else. But note its Misc PAINTBALL items. Paintball is the operative word AND the heading.

What area examples of paintball items that meet that explanation and not maybe considered Gear? Well things like maybe Tournament trophys or field fee passes. Things like that. I didn't write the description. But it was written as a explanation of what PAINTBALL items were considered proper for Misc PAINTBALL items category.


The operative is its Misc Paintball Items.

[cphilip]

I also think threatening a 10-day ban for selling items is pretty damn harsh.

The thread was selling a bunch of stuff, which included paintball gear and other things in a single thread. And squid has a point about the wording.

I agree that is not acceptable for the issue. I will speak to Mark about that.

His point is pretty much invalid.

Again I don't think this was worthy of any action. And I advised Mark of that fact.

Let me handle it. K? Please come to me privately if something is wrong like this.

[rkjunior303]

phil, do you think it's possible to get an 'other' category for the For Sale section or would you like to keep it strictly paintball related?

[-=Squid=-]

Thordic agrees with me: That says something.

It may be a rule, but if you read that, and break it down, it makes it ok to sell non pb things. It says all other things not related to other categories; well, last time I checked a DVD wasn't related to the other categories.

Then again I don't sell non-pb related things on this forum so it really doesn't matter to me.

- Goro

[cphilip]

phil, do you think it's possible to get an 'other' category for the For Sale section or would you like to keep it strictly paintball related?

I personaly would rather keep it as much just paintball as we can. I personaly don't care if there is a few non paintball items there. But I do not want to encourage a lot of it as it's hard to monitor and all. I mean look at eBay. We got a list of rule a mile long and tons of people trying to keep things in line there. I mean if we say go for it and sell anything we are going to eventually have problems. Like body parts and illegal chemicals and who knows what all else. I mean we are a paintball site after all and there is already an eBay. But I agree we should be reasonable about it. That I do agree with you on.

But.... I will speak to Mark about the way to handie this from now on. So we are all on the same page. We got a disconnect it seems right now and I will see what we can do to fix it. I promise. Gimme a day or so to deal with this.

[White_Noise]

like cphillip said, this discussion belongs in pm's and not in the threads. however, i do agree with cphillip. the title of the forum is misc. paintball items. which would encompass all the sub headings that define what can be sold there. so i sugest that you 2 (thordic and squid) quit hounding chillip about this and either bring it up with him in pm's or with mark m.

[Magaman]

How about this:

The mods get together with the powers that be and make a new ruling. You will either decide, anything can be sold or "Only Paintball stuff"... Then make sure the rule is well explained so that even little mice can understand it...

It will be better than a 50 page thread with arguing over what the current set of rules are... We have had way to much of that in the last few weeks...

Two Cents... :bounce:

[cphilip]

Thordic agrees with me: That says something.

It may be a rule, but if you read that, and break it down, it makes it ok to sell non pb things. It says all other things not related to other categories; well, last time I checked a DVD wasn't related to the other categories.

Then again I don't sell non-pb related things on this forum so it really doesn't matter to me.

- Goro

Your not paying attention to what I am explaining to you. Probably because you chose not too.... but thats neither here nor there. I'll try one more time...

If you break it down correctly it says "...other (paintball misc) items not related to other categories. Simple as that.

[rkjunior303]

thanks phil, as always, you are a scholar!

[TheTramp]

I've bought/traded for some cool non-paintball stuff in the "other" catagory. I don't think it's out of hand at all and hopefuly, as Phil said, we can keep the status quo.

[themish]

squid
The word AND implies a logical AND operator. This is different from logical OR, which is what you take the rule to be. AND implies that both conditions must be true at all times. OR implies only one condition need be true. Please take a high school level math class.

[CaliMagFan]

like cphillip said, this discussion belongs in pm's and not in the threads. ....


I'm not going to combat what you're saying here mag/cocker because you're just repeating what cphil said...

I do submit though, this is a forum, and however much you want to regulate its content, you must remember that it is a forum in the end. The forum, not only online, but harkoning back to the days of the Greek and Roman forums of antiquity has been a place of free learning and communication. Of all the forums I have frequented, this is the most censored, most restricted. Be that bad or good is not for me to say, it's an issue of individual ideal.

I concede that yes, AO is a private business venture, so it is for the owner/ his moderators to control the content present. But, and this is a big but; this private venture is backed by the dollars and cents of the people that patronize AGD in the business sense. (I remember reading that AGD bought control of AO back in 2001[?].) I think that I am safe in saying that the bulk of people that put money in the proverbial AGD pot are accounted here on AO as forum goers. Thus, I don't think it too outlandish to feel my fellow AO members and I have a say in what the "government" policies here are. In California we have something called a "recall" it's akin to the British Parlimentary system's "no confidence" vote for a Prime Minister.

Thus, I submit that if the problem "grows legs" and gets too out of control, that either forum rules be revisited in the sense that they need a modernization, or the recall strategy be pursued for the moderator in question.

Also, as I stated before, we AO member are much like shareholders in this AGD venture, and as a "shareholder" I would insist that most of the business of the company in which I have invested is open for me to read .

scathing and revolutionary, i know... but all to necissary in at a time like this.

-kyro

[-=Squid=-]

squid
The word AND implies a logical AND operator. This is different from logical OR, which is what you take the rule to be. AND implies that both conditions must be true at all times. OR implies only one condition need be true. Please take a high school level math class.
Attempt to insult my intelligence: Failed.

- Goro

[Glickman]

squid
The word AND implies a logical AND operator. This is different from logical OR, which is what you take the rule to be. AND implies that both conditions must be true at all times. OR implies only one condition need be true. Please take a high school level math class.

id bet there are people much much smarter then you, or me, or squid, but they choose not to do stuff like that, because they're... well.... more mature, and dont try to condensedly show off...


but back to topic, i agree with what was said about out-right notation of this rule, but really, whats the harm of letting people sell a few dvd's, in fact, thats how some of us get money to buy other paintball stuff :D

[nastymag]

MarkM has been a mod for a very long time, and a good one too. if it really bothers you, talk to him over PMs. dont try to undercut his status with a post for everyone to read.


i can see how a 10 day ban is excessive, but i dont really believe none paintball stuff should be sold there either. make a seperate sub forum for it, or dont allow it altogether.

[MarkM]

Thordic.... to defend my self somewhat....do you want to post the PM where I threatened a 10 day ban?...trust me you can't because I didn't .....Oh and Thordic the PM as in Private Message was not sent to you so unless you have two accounts? To anyone else reading this there have been more than a few pm's regarding possible bans if (whatever the subject was) was continued but NEVER repeat NEVER over a for sale thread. To date ever PM where this was a subject the user has behaved and the rest of AO has seen no posts or thread dissapear because of this...you have to remember that it is better to do things quietly via pm's rather than lock or delete threads though there are times that this has to be done.

Squid I have sent you pm's sure and the last little set were to do with you doing something that could have escalated and possibly had you getting into a flame war. As I explained to you I would back your corner if you were being wronged and the same goes for any other AO user.

[jdev]

Thordic agrees with me: That says something.

It may be a rule, but if you read that, and break it down, it makes it ok to sell non pb things. It says all other things not related to other categories; well, last time I checked a DVD wasn't related to the other categories.

Then again I don't sell non-pb related things on this forum so it really doesn't matter to me.

- Goro

thordic jumped through a bush and landed on a car.. face first :)

so no, that says absolutely nothing. :D

and phil. it does say other items not relating to the other catagories. I know you already know this, as youve posted at least twice in this thread. this can be construed, as squid already mentioned, as other things not relating to other categories, IE Air/Markers. Last I checked, a DVD is not related to Air systems or Markers. Thats just how its percieved, and im sure, I, or squid, aren't the only two that have percieved it as that.

[White_Noise]

thordic jumped through a bush and landed on a car.. face first :)

so no, that says absolutely nothing. :D

and phil. it does say other items not relating to the other catagories. I know you already know this, as youve posted at least twice in this thread. this can be construed, as squid already mentioned, as other things not relating to other categories, IE Air/Markers. Last I checked, a DVD is not related to Air systems or Markers. Thats just how its percieved, and im sure, I, or squid, aren't the only two that have percieved it as that.


in defense of what cphillip said: yes, it says other items not relating to the other categories, however, this statement comes after the title of misc. paintball items.

Misc. Paintball Items
For all other paintball gear and other items not relating to the other catagories

paintball gear would include pants, jerseys, packs, etc, etc. while other items would be things such as tropheys, play passes, marker parts, etc.

does this mean that i dont think other things should be allowed to be sold? no. im just saying that you guys can just back off of cphillip on this because this is a paintball forum, and the section title does say paintball and therefore would imply paintball items.

[Muzikman]

No the users have no say in the rule and what goes on as far as the running of AO. No they are not share holders. That is kinda like saying that you have the right to tell a company what to do with their marketing dollars. I am not even sure how you can come up with half that stuff below.




I'm not going to combat what you're saying here mag/cocker because you're just repeating what cphil said...

I do submit though, this is a forum, and however much you want to regulate its content, you must remember that it is a forum in the end. The forum, not only online, but harkoning back to the days of the Greek and Roman forums of antiquity has been a place of free learning and communication. Of all the forums I have frequented, this is the most censored, most restricted. Be that bad or good is not for me to say, it's an issue of individual ideal.

I concede that yes, AO is a private business venture, so it is for the owner/ his moderators to control the content present. But, and this is a big but; this private venture is backed by the dollars and cents of the people that patronize AGD in the business sense. (I remember reading that AGD bought control of AO back in 2001[?].) I think that I am safe in saying that the bulk of people that put money in the proverbial AGD pot are accounted here on AO as forum goers. Thus, I don't think it too outlandish to feel my fellow AO members and I have a say in what the "government" policies here are. In California we have something called a "recall" it's akin to the British Parlimentary system's "no confidence" vote for a Prime Minister.

Thus, I submit that if the problem "grows legs" and gets too out of control, that either forum rules be revisited in the sense that they need a modernization, or the recall strategy be pursued for the moderator in question.

Also, as I stated before, we AO member are much like shareholders in this AGD venture, and as a "shareholder" I would insist that most of the business of the company in which I have invested is open for me to read .

scathing and revolutionary, i know... but all to necissary in at a time like this.

-kyro

[cphilip]

other items not relating to the other catagories[/b]. I know you already know this, as youve posted at least twice in this thread. this can be construed, as squid already mentioned, as other things not relating to other categories, IE Air/Markers. Last I checked, a DVD is not related to Air systems or Markers. Thats just how its percieved, and im sure, I, or squid, aren't the only two that have percieved it as that.

You know I posted yet you never read what I said.... (sigh)

Ok well you have time now. Construed? or Reconstructed in your wishfull dreams?

Read again. It's pretty clear. Its also pretty clear I said it didn't realy matter because my approach was to ignore that missinterpretation anyway... but I guess that was a waste of my time to say that.

It's also clear to me now that Mark talked to me privately about this last night after he had PM'd a single member about a non paintball items. And that he then took my advice not to mess with them. And its also apparent that there was a misrepresentation of the timing in this to me in this thread. By hearsay and not by personal experience. He too was probably mislead about the specifics. It's also evident now that it was "much ado about nothing". And to quote the server "nevermore 404"....

End of story. It was a mistake on and overblown. A mistake in every way. And a good lesson to us all. Never quite believe everything you hear until you can prove it so least you be lead down the path of ignorance.

Closed.