New CFOA and PSP rule

[68magOwner]

For the 2005 season, the PSP and CFOA will be instating a 15bps cap :( apparently, massive ramping is allowed after first 3 shots, but, no full auto, Tadao industries will be releasing the cappec chips for markers soon.


ok, i for one, dont like this at all, also, how are they going to make chips/boards for all the markers in the PSP and CFOA, there are TONS of variety's of markers in both leagues, and if they do make a chip/board for all the marker types, can they produce enough for all those players/markers in time? And what about mechanical markers that can shoot 15+bps (even in a 2 shot burst, because 15 is too fast to be legal for almost any mech)


:tard: discuss

[Flow_Tech]

offf topic on my part,but PSP also passed a rule that CFOA players are not allowed to play in D3 Xball.

[sithos]

I for one think this flat out sucks. I just got onto a CFOA team, and bought an evil pimp so I'd be rocking for next season. I haven't even shot the marker yet, and now theres no way I can use it for tournaments??????? what a load of crap.

I think brass eagle is behind it all. $60 markers start looking better when everyone is limited to their performance.

[68magOwner]

yeah, just got the viking and started practice for CFOA (well, may not keep viking, but, time will tell) anyway, there are rumors of a viking tadao board, but, even so, i dont want to HAVE to buy it to play CFOA

[Toxic Dave]

Coupon Queen;

The PSP rule that is affecting the CFOA players has been in place for at least a year. It wasn't written for the CFOA, it is used to stop D3 teams from having an army(or any)AM or Pro Players on it, it made sense till the CFOA started using the APPA system, which is cool that they are, but it has created a wrinkle in the system.

dave

[SlartyBartFast]

I for one think this flat out sucks. I just got onto a CFOA team, and bought an evil pimp so I'd be rocking for next season. I haven't even shot the marker yet, and now theres no way I can use it for tournaments??????? what a load of crap.

I think brass eagle is behind it all. $60 markers start looking better when everyone is limited to their performance.

Which raises three issues:

One: How many are getting 15+bps legally?

Two: ASME and the paintball industry agreed to a lower maximum bps before.

Three: You think you can get 15bps from a $60 marker? :tard:

[WARPED1]

I am glad, it'll put emphasis back on skill not insane firepower. New players today should learn to play 15bps cap and hopperball. See what the game is really all about!

[68magOwner]

yeah, because it would be great to have all your backs run out of paint OTB :tard:

[matmc89]

just use a revvy

[mag88888]

wow, i as waiting for this. im happy. people need to learn how to actually play and not use like 500 balls a game. i use like 50 balls a game at my local field and i do fine. i sometimes use less. i thinkn that finally people will actually learn how to play the sport. i mean ive played against kids that were 4 years older than me that had autocockers and crap. my team won. it as the little kids against the older kids, 12 vs 12 about. and i got like 6 people ou that game. that as with a SPYDER too.

[SlartyBartFast]

yeah, because it would be great to have all your backs run out of paint OTB :tard:

Actually, it would be great if a game moved and was action packed instead of having stationary trigger wankers upping the profits of the paintball manufacturers. :rofl:

[WARPED1]

Actually, it would be great if a game moved and was action packed instead of having stationary trigger wankers upping the profits of the paintball manufacturers. :rofl:
EXXXXACCCCTTTLLLYYY!

[sithos]

maybe i'm just used to playing 10man, but i dont think i can shoot less than 3 pods and a hopper in a game. when i play recball, i have to force myself to only carry a pod or 2, or im out of paint before noon.

the problem with a revy is that any balls in the feed neck arent limited by its slower feed rate. honestly, i have no idea how fast balls feed from the neck to the marker, so maybe that would work, but i doubt it if the evo II says it feeds 17-19, cause the balls in the neck on an evo II dont have any force behind them, do they?


i think mostly im pissed because i sold my sweet eblade cocker for next to nothing (resale sucks!), and ordered an evil pimp. as soon as i get the darn marker, I find out I cant even use it. so ive got an 825$ gun, havent put a single paintball through it, and i'll be lucky to get 700$ for it.

[White_Noise]

Actually, it would be great if a game moved and was action packed instead of having stationary trigger wankers upping the profits of the paintball manufacturers. :rofl:

quoted for the truth....oh well, how can they cap a mechanical marker? thats right...they cant....let the rt's rise up now and dominate. according to this you will be allowed bounce, so if i play a psp game, im using my rt, and putting 1200psi into it

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

I think something where players could only stay behind a bunker for a set time, before they were forced to move would be interesting to say the least.

Most likely would fail miserably, but interesting.

[sithos]

MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata - we've played a game like that at the local field. problem there is there arent enough bunkers to go around when its like 20 on 20, that, and most people cant frickin aim while running and shooting, and ive taken a couple paintballs inside my mask from the back.

[50 cal]

Boy, some poeple are going to be mad at the new rules! They may have to actually think about their game instead of just yanking the trigger and throw a wall of paint.

I love it!!

[the123]

did you watch the NXL on espn? they now have bps meters that the refs use while standing behind a players stream while they are shooting, any ROF over the legal limt and you get penalized. Any gun that shoots over 15bps would be illegal, electro or not.

[Lohman446]

LOL - oh hwo wrong you are. 90% of people don't shoot at 15BPS, what your going to see is markers (like the rebound Shockers) taht actually shoot a real 15BPS and its going to be soo much faster than the people claiming 22BPS. There is going to be a lot more paint in the air, I've played with rebound, I know.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

For the 2005 season, the PSP and CFOA will be instating a 15bps cap :( apparently, massive ramping is allowed after first 3 shots, but, no full auto, Tadao industries will be releasing the cappec chips for markers soon.


ok, i for one, dont like this at all, also, how are they going to make chips/boards for all the markers in the PSP and CFOA, there are TONS of variety's of markers in both leagues, and if they do make a chip/board for all the marker types, can they produce enough for all those players/markers in time? And what about mechanical markers that can shoot 15+bps (even in a 2 shot burst, because 15 is too fast to be legal for almost any mech)


:tard: discuss

Yes, I've talked to Will/FlipFlops, the owner of Tadao, and it would probably take him all of a day to just change the code for all the chips he makes...then it just all comes down to flashing the boards/chips..

[WARPED1]

did you watch the NXL on espn? they now have bps meters that the refs use while standing behind a players stream while they are shooting, any ROF over the legal limt and you get penalized. Any gun that shoots over 15bps would be illegal, electro or not.
ROFL! Those were radar detectors, to measure FPS! :p

[68magOwner]

anyway, the less we shoot, the more paint costs, companys WILL make money, regardless. Alos, i too feel that a 15bps cap with ramping ect will mean more paint in the air, so, for the people saying "now people have to play better instead of shooting fast" i can tell you, its a hell of alot harder to run and gun 15bps than it is to run and do it while shooting F/A or ramping, or shoot while reloading, ect, you have to be kidding if you think ramping is going to cause LESS paint shot.

mayamonkeybeyourpinta- thats the worst idea ever

mag88888- wow, you shot a bunch of noobs with a spyder.....and this has to do with this rule.....how? Chances are that no one on that field was shooting fast anyway (you said they had cockers like thats a good thing for them :tard: ) and if you dont think any decent tourney player can walk on a rec field with a hopper full of paint in a spyder and do well, you have another thing comming. I play hopper ball most of the time if i am playing rec ball and still do very well.

anyway, does anyone know if the chips will be easily interchangable in tadao boards (put tadao in the viking (in the works), then just swap chips for CFOA?)

[ScatterPlot]

Dude, how awesome would it be to have like a 15x multiplier ramping chip. Or maybe a 30. Full auto my butt!

[tony3]

Meh, they might as well just do the same thing as the nxl. People are now going to try to go over 15, have a switch where its unlimited and capped at 15, cheaters will never leave.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

anyway, does anyone know if the chips will be easily interchangable in tadao boards (put tadao in the viking (in the works), then just swap chips for CFOA?)

Well..Tadao doesn't make a Viking board...he makes Matrix and Shocker Boards (with a Timmy board on the way) and DM4/5 chips. I don't think it would be anymore difficult to flash the board at the site and then flash it back...but it's all up to how much BS he wants to deal with..

[Josh2Xtremes]

You guys missed the fact that the Sponsorship Coordinator and Media Liaison (that's CO-PROMOTER in English) is a member of AO didn'tcha. Well guess what. I've been watching you. Let me clear this up. The following is a direct copy of the comments I made to 68Caliber.com when asked to comment on this very issue. Perhaps this will help you people making crazy assumptions.

"While I cannot speak for Paintball Sports Promotions as I am neither employed or empowered by them to do so, I CAN speak for the CFOA, presented by National Paintball Supply. Promoter Larry Motes and myself, and several other advisors and members of the Advisory Board have indeed been examing this issue at great length. While we cannot, at this time, announce an official rule in regards to ramp, bounce and balls-per-second, I can say with complete confidence that things WILL change in the CFOA during the 2004 off-season that will directly affect the 2005 tournament season in our league. We view the issue as one of safety of our players, referees, staff and spectators above all else and feel that something MUST be done to reign-in the gun cheats, cheater boards, trigger bounce and high rate of fire before a player or other person is severely injured, blinded or worse. We value our players as friends, neighbors and in some cases family, as well as paying customers, and while we do not wish to place too many limitations on their equipment, we feel that our league must make a decision, take a stand and create rules to keep our games safe that are as enforceable and fair as possible for all of our players. As soon as the actual rules regarding this issue are written, reviewed, approved and inserted into our new 2005 rulebook, they will be immediately released for our players and the media.

--Joshua D. Silverman, Sponsorship Coordinator and Media Liaison, Carolina Field Owners Association"

In other words...ain't NOTHIN' official yet! Stay tuned to www.thecfoa.com or to any of the major media outlets for news regarding this issue. Thanks to our players for their support and to the sponsors that help us reward them: National Paintball Supply, DYE, Shocktech, Proto, Body Glove (protect the core), DerDer Productions, Powerlyte, Crossfire, Custom Sports Gear, Indian Creek Designs, VForce, Draxxus, BarrelPlug.com, Paintball Central, Paintball Kingdom, 111AAAPaintball.com, Planet Eclipse, Reactive, Flagpull.com and WARPIG.

[XSSPL]

Actually, it would be great if a game moved and was action packed instead of having stationary trigger wankers upping the profits of the paintball manufacturers. :rofl:


DITTO x 1,098,405!!!!!! That is so true. God forbid that tatics other than "spray and pray" be used to be sucessful.

[Blazestorm]

You realize some people shoot fast to keep people in and to lane off the break?

I can hit 16-17 fairly easily consistently as well, I don't mind this cap, but I think it's stupid when everyone generalizes people who shoot fast as paint wasters, I RARELY shoot more then a pod (I rarely finish off that pod) because I'll find opportunities to move and run-thru people.

This new cap won't affect me if I do end up playing PSP, I can deal with it, because I don't rely on those extra few balls to win, it's nice to have freedom though. :D

[Enemy]

this cap is just a useless way of saying that the promoters gave up on trying to find a way to stop cheater boards. im with 68magger this is just bs and it really does take away from the players abilities! the 15 bps cap didnt do much for the nxl did it now it was great watching one guy light up his own bunker when he pulled his gun down to reload or when someone took 7 hits on a bunker cuz after the first three the shooter wasnt responsible for what his gun was doing. this isnt making anything safer or leveling the playing field its just allowing any idiot to hit 15 bps.. look at the new nerve boards kid was doing maybe 5 bps with his fingers and the gun was doing 18.. i guess being a player i should be thrilled this just makes the game that much easier. and for those that think this makes things harder think all i have to do is shoot three shots into my bunker blam im up to 15 bps snap and there goes 5-9 balls right at my target.. this doesnt stop shooters it helps them!!

[Muzikman]

this cap is just a useless way of saying that the promoters gave up on trying to find a way to stop cheater boards. im with 68magger this is just bs and it really does take away from the players abilities! the 15 bps cap didnt do much for the nxl did it now it was great watching one guy light up his own bunker when he pulled his gun down to reload or when someone took 7 hits on a bunker cuz after the first three the shooter wasnt responsible for what his gun was doing. this isnt making anything safer or leveling the playing field its just allowing any idiot to hit 15 bps.. look at the new nerve boards kid was doing maybe 5 bps with his fingers and the gun was doing 18.. i guess being a player i should be thrilled this just makes the game that much easier. and for those that think this makes things harder think all i have to do is shoot three shots into my bunker blam im up to 15 bps snap and there goes 5-9 balls right at my target.. this doesnt stop shooters it helps them!!


Well, as Josh said. The rule has not been determained yet. I would hope that it is a 15bps limit and that it still has to be semi auto and no ramping or bounce. If this is the case, then it will be a good move.

[Carbon]

well, what you have to realize now is, there is an official sanction for paintball players who want to play a different type of game. Essentially, that leaugue is nichefying and developing games that a certain kinda players are attracted to, similar to pump class.

This is a good thing. the sport is branching and is becoming more defined in "character" by the differnt leages and its respective rules.

Variety is the spice of life.

[FromTheBack]

hmm and older software for E-mags like mine with 1.37 are capped at 16, close enough eh? :D

[pballratt]

this was pulled of of pbnation.

For those of ya'll that doubted the rule!! Straight from Larry!


"First of all, let me say that all the ramping, illegal and un-catchable guns are something that I have agonized over since they first hit the field. My biggest concern then and now is that they are virtually undetectable prior to being activated, and easily deactivated. Any gun-cheat who would get caught in the act of shooting, but had the time to deactivate their chip would scream bloody murder. They would protest to no end that the ref was biased, the gun-cheater was being picked on, that the call was BS, etc... With the cheater-chip deactivated it would come down to: ref said, player said. With so many of you guys doing it and so many more buying the chips to join the cheaters, well you more or less forced the change of rules.

Next, I want everyone to know that the decision to go with the PSP's 15 bps rule was based on 2 things: player safety and insurance.

Now I know many of you aren't too worried about your fellow competitors. That if you shoot him 25 times, that's his bad luck. Many of you aren't aware that at the CFOA finale at Rock Hill, that there was a player who was bunkered by a ramping gun at point blank range in the head. The player who did the shooting was not malicious in his actions, but the quick pulls of the trigger did produce 6 shots to the mask of the player who got bunkered. Those 6 shots at that range broke the unaltered Profiler of the player who was bunkered. We were lucky and no injury occurred. Only the player who got his bell rung and had to buy some new goggles was the worse for wear.

Field Insurance is another thing many of you could probably care less about. There is a reason that no field or series allows the use of full-auto guns. The insurance doesn't cover it. That's why pretty much everybody's rules say one shot one pull. That is semi-automatic. That's not ramping, bouncing, burst mode, or anything else. Why do you think the Turbo mode died years ago?

Now for the record:
The maximum rate of fire for all guns at CFOA events (from this point forward) will be 15 balls per second.
The rule STILL says: One shot, one pull.
Ramping chips and bouncing guns are still deemed illegal.

How to have a legal gun:
Buy a chip (seems like the cool thing to do these days). There will be chips made to not exceed 15 bps. I know these chips will be good for all versions of the Matrix and Intimidator. More guns likely to be added. I know that Will at Tadao is in progress on this now.
Don't know if this will actually happen, but it could; that would be to get a new board for your HALO that keeps the feed rate at 15 bps.
For many of you the answer could be as simple as changing your hopper. Most of the high end guns have eyes and won't fire faster than the hopper can feed. VL Revolution's anyone?

My 2 cents:
My personal feeling is that the folks who have to resort to covert and illegal upgrades to their guns are trying to compensate for a lack of game.
Once everyone understands what 15 bps sounds like, the ones who try to exceed that ROF cap will be obvious to everyone within earshot.
The equipment to enforce the rules will be bought and used appropriately. So be warned. Don't come crying to me when you get caught.

Larry"

[Muzikman]

Well, this sounds like a great rule change if those are infact that rules now. I also think they are doing it for the right reason, and it's nice to find an event that cares about it's players. Although, in saying that, I am sure they are looking out for their own butt first and the player a late second.

[manike]

This rule is stupid, because if people were pulling the trigger legally in the first place then very few would be able to beat 15bps anyway.

So before 'pull legally'

Now 'pull legally and stay below 15'

If they could have enforced the first rule, then the change to the second wouldn't have been required.

Now you will just end up with the new PSP boards in use for everything, with the PSP code as a standard or turned on and off by the cheats. The CFOA won't be able to stop the cheaters with this rule anymore now than they could before.

[billmi]

For the 2005 season, the PSP and CFOA will be instating a 15bps cap :( apparently, massive ramping is allowed after first 3 shots, but, no full auto, Tadao industries will be releasing the cappec chips for markers soon... And what about mechanical markers that can shoot 15+bps (even in a 2 shot burst, because 15 is too fast to be legal for almost any mech)


:tard: discuss

We'll have to see what the rule looks like when it actually gets made, but if it's anything like the NXL's rule, mechanicals won't be a problem. In the NXL it is not illegal for the gun to be *capable* of shooting over 15bps, it is illegal for the player to shoot it over 15 bps in a game.

[Muzikman]

Simon, true, and i do agree...but...they can now detect BPS with chronographs. They are already using chronographs on the field in the X-ball games so now you just need to change so that it can detect BPS too. If you are found shooting over 15bps then out ya go. As for the still being able to cheat, that is one that is hard to prevent. I don't see there being a board or chip for every gun out there, unless it is made by the gun mfg.

If enough events require this type of rule, then maybe we can convince the manufactures that it's no longer about the ROF and then they can go back to hyping accuracy and efficiency. Not to put all these little electronic companies out of business, but if you want to prevent it, make the gun manufactures produce a board that follows these rules, is locked and can not be reprogrammed. If you need a software update, you get a new board, the mfg get's the old one back and recycles it. They could still produce their uber fast ramping boards, but also this simple semi auto board that is capped at 15bps.

This would be like requiring a restrictor plate in NASCAR. Just make everyone follow the rules including the people that build the equipment.

[billmi]

Two: ASME and the paintball industry agreed to a lower maximum bps before.


What is ASME?

Yes, remember when the leading manufacturers said they would either discontinue making (if they already did) or never make (if they didn't yet.) paintguns capable of over 13 bps? Then they changed it to 14bps (because BE would only sign it if they didn't ahave to change the RM.) And then none of them stopped making paintguns capable of those speeds, and many who weren't making them started.

[billmi]

quoted for the truth....oh well, how can they cap a mechanical marker? thats right...they cant....let the rt's rise up now and dominate. according to this you will be allowed bounce, so if i play a psp game, im using my rt, and putting 1200psi into it

As long as you don't go over 15 bps, you're fine.

The NXL rule that this is being moddled on isn't about caps, it's about if they catch you shooting hot, or over 15bps during a game, you are penalized.

[billmi]

ROFL! Those were radar detectors, to measure FPS! :p

The NXL has been working with the manufacturer of those RADAR guns, and they expect to have versions that measure both velocity and ROF ready by the start of the 2005 season. In addition to the RADAR guns they have also used directional mics with acoustic shot counters. The technology for enforcing ROF on field is still far from perfect, but they are working on it.

[billmi]

This would be like requiring a restrictor plate in NASCAR. Just make everyone follow the rules including the people that build the equipment.

That's the trickiest part. Can you think of a single manufacturer who sponsors a pro team that hasn't been accused of giving the main sponsored team special cheater boards?

[billmi]

This rule is stupid, because if people were pulling the trigger legally in the first place then very few would be able to beat 15bps anyway.

I totally agree. 1 for one, and 3 for 1 penalties are stupid too. If people didn't play on, or wipe, or cheat in other ways, they would not be needed.



So before 'pull legally'

Now 'pull legally and stay below 15'

If they could have enforced the first rule, then the change to the second wouldn't have been required.


Very true. The problem lies in that there isn't a practical model for enforcing the first rule (making sure there's legal software in the gun so the pull is legal) in the current business model of paintball tournaments.



Now you will just end up with the new PSP boards in use for everything, with the PSP code as a standard or turned on and off by the cheats. The CFOA won't be able to stop the cheaters with this rule anymore now than they could before.

If CFOA, NPPL, Pan Am, etc., go the route of capping at 15 bps, and not worrying about the trigger pulls to get there, then it's all down to enforcement - measuring the ROF achieved on the field. As it is now, where the NPPL is the only series doing serious testing (hats off to Dave Zinkham who's been setting new standards in that area,) folks can and are getting away with using illegal boards in these leagues, and even in the NPPL, they are only testing the mode the gun is in before or after the game - if it's secretly switched in and out of a cheater mode on the field, there is no method in place for catching it.

[billmi]

this cap is just a useless way of saying that the promoters gave up on trying to find a way to stop cheater boards.

Yep. Though one might also say that promoters of events utilizing the 15bps cap have recognized that if players are allowed to use their own equipment, the goal of stopping cheater boards is a rather impractical target to shoot for.

[Muzikman]

That's the trickiest part. Can you think of a single manufacturer who sponsors a pro team that hasn't been accused of giving the main sponsored team special cheater boards?

I agree. There was talk a long time ago about banning a gun if it was found to have a mfg "approved" cheater board. I think that would be an interesting idea, but obviously not practical.

You want a sure way to catch cheeters? a High speed video cam and BPS measuring chronograph aimed at random players. The Chrono could detect BPS and the video could tell how fast their finger moves. Now, you would not be able to do this on the fly, but it could be that if someone is caught cheating, they forfit a game, if they get cought again, they are out of the event. I mean it would be a time consuming thing and cost a pretty penny, but I bet it would work.

[manike]

I totally agree. 1 for one, and 3 for 1 penalties are stupid too. If people didn't play on, or wipe, or cheat in other ways, they would not be needed..

I don't agree with your comparison. Just because they can't stop people playing on and wiping have they now made a rule that said 'no playing on by running more than 15 metres after being shot' or 'no wiping more than 15 hits per game'... nope.


Very true. The problem lies in that there isn't a practical model for enforcing the first rule (making sure there's legal software in the gun so the pull is legal) in the current business model of paintball tournaments.

Agreed. So the answer is to make a new rule they can't enforce either? They can enforce the BPS but they still can't enforce the 'one pull one shot' hence...


If CFOA, NPPL, Pan Am, etc., go the route of capping at 15 bps, and not worrying about the trigger pulls to get there, then it's all down to enforcement - measuring the ROF achieved on the field. As it is now, where the NPPL is the only series doing serious testing (hats off to Dave Zinkham who's been setting new standards in that area,) folks can and are getting away with using illegal boards in these leagues, and even in the NPPL, they are only testing the mode the gun is in before or after the game - if it's secretly switched in and out of a cheater mode on the field, there is no method in place for catching it.

Hence the PSP rule is someting I have been advocating on another board for quite some time.

It may be that my suggestion for the rule which the PSP has now made, was just a co-incidence, or the fact that Lane and Steve had read it and talked to me about it has a small factor also. :)

If you can't enforce a rule, then what is the point? This is one reason why I think the PSP rule is far more HONEST and a better rule.

I wish it didn't have to be, but at least it's a decent rule they can enforce and it will make a fair playing field. The CFOA rule is still a joke.

Anybody trying to continue to enforce a 'one pull one shot' rule is sorely kidding themselves in todays market. :( I wish them luck though. Once they find a way to do it, then we can go back to having no cap... ;)

[manike]

I agree. There was talk a long time ago about banning a gun if it was found to have a mfg "approved" cheater board. I think that would be an interesting idea, but obviously not practical.

I'm curious as to who you think makes most of these cheater boards... :D

[thecavemankevin]

everyone that is complaining about haveing to get new boards that can ramp but not more than 15bps, as long as your board is cap-able at 15 in good old fashion semi then you don't "have" to get new boards.

just cap them at 15 and your good to go.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Agreed. So the answer is to make a new rule they can't enforce either? They can enforce the BPS but they still can't enforce the 'one pull one shot' hence...
Seems to me that if it was ever possible to set guidelines "firing rules" and enforce them, some standards will have to be created that will enable the scrutineers to just plug into a gun and check its settings. We all know that at this time this is both implausible from a business standpoint because the manufacturers themselves are always looking for some performance advantage for their products compared to their competitors.



Hence the PSP rule is someting I have been advocating on another board for quite some time.

It may be that my suggestion for the rule which the PSP has now made, was just a co-incidence, or the fact that Lane and Steve had read it and talked to me about it has a small factor also. :)

In some regards I totally agree with you. But just like anything else in life, a lot of it depends on the perspective of the those who have the most economic impact on the issue itself.


If you can't enforce a rule, then what is the point? This is one reason why I think the PSP rule is far more HONEST and a better rule.

I wish it didn't have to be, but at least it's a decent rule they can enforce and it will make a fair playing field. The CFOA rule is still a joke.

Anybody trying to continue to enforce a 'one pull one shot' rule is sorely kidding themselves in todays market. :( I wish them luck though. Once they find a way to do it, then we can go back to having no cap... ;)
Ten four that Manike!

[ScatterPlot]

I wonder if a "per person" cap would help any. Like have variously set up test guns for people to rail on as much as they want, but have those boards standard. If the person goes way over their own personal cap (not like a 14 to 15 but like a 12-19) then they get pulled. That would be kinda hard though, considering adrenaline and all that mess.

[Shirow]

Ok, I know this is an oooooold thread. But it was such an interesting read. And some participants in this thread are industry designers, reporters, and manufacturers.

It was really interesting to see the volley back and forth between them.

Thanks for bumping it, I hadn't seen it before and it was quite interesting, considering the state of the game in 2006..

[eNder159]

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2537/batmanandrobinzj7.jpg


nothing better to do with your time in the middle of the night aye?


rogue is just trying to revive a long quiet AGD forum ...for one i applaud him for trying to do what is best

honestly everybody should go back to revvy's that will be the only way to curb these ramping "cheaters"

[p8ntball72]

Wonder if Bill or Simon's views have changed at all?
Now that both seem to have moved up the ladder so to speak in the "Industry"

On a side note
is Dawn mills now a Smart Parts media representative? { http://www.68caliber.com/story041980.php }

[ScatterPlot]

Yeah, I remember the olde AO days. Kinda miss it, back when I was a newb. Don't play much anymore cause I gots no money, but it would be nice to talk more about it. I just come around casually now. High five for old times, RogueFactor! :headbang:

[punkncat]

Sure thing.

I was doing some research, and came across this thread. Its reminiscent of the old AO days where a thread was informative and those who posted were those involved at some of the highest levels within the industry. Discussion was civil and there werent as many AO martyrs cryng out for attention or attempting to derail the thread.

Well said.

[Cold Steel]

Found it very interesting to go back and reread some of the thoughts and opinions from 2 years ago. I was particularly interested in what some of the more influential people in the industry had to say about the ROF cap the CFOA was adopting. Now that we can look back in hindsight, I still believe in the decision that was made and know that we made the right choice. The ROF cap has been easy to enforce through the use of PACT timers and parabolic microphones. The rules, along with the hardware, and the harsh penalties that were dished out to the offenders, have gone a long way towards leveling the field of play. The CFOA has seen its share of penalties and suspensions for those that tested the limits of the ROF rules. The only challenge to the rules these days are the few players who attempt to utilize a breakout mode on their cheater boards. These actions resulted in the use of the parabolic microphone to catch these breakout cheats.

After rereading some of this thread, the statement that struck me as the most ironic was the part about the NPPL being the only league that was trying to prevent marker cheats by utilizing a scrutineer and the infamous robot. I'm not trying to bash the NPPL, but here we are 2 years later, and its probably been that long since any NPPL player was stupid enough to get caught by the robot. The NPPL is also without any form of ROF cap. Having been to both PSP and NPPL events this season, I've seen and heard more fast guns at the NPPL events than at ROF capped (CFOA/PSP) events. There is no way those players shoot that fast without electronic assitance.

In my opinion, the cheater boards almost ruined tournament paintball. The unscrupulous manufacturers and players that produce and use these cheater boards are still doing all they can to obtain an advantage on the field. The cheats are still far ahead of those who would police them.

Players and teams are faced with 3 choices when trying to determine where to compete; 1) play wherever and play straight up, 2) play on a level playing field, or 3) play wherever and be prepared to fight fire with fire. The CFOA chose to level the playing field. The CFOA staff and officials will continue to remain vigilant in the policing of the ROF cap.

Larry Motes
CFOA

[pennywise]

Thanks for the insight Larry. It is awesome to hear from someone who truly cares about the integrity of the game and its players and is actually doing something about it.

[UTDragun]

CFOA is a great circuit and I hope to see tfoa again next year as well

[Lohman446]

Found it very interesting to go back and reread some of the thoughts and opinions from 2 years ago. I was particularly interested in what some of the more influential people in the industry had to say about the ROF cap the CFOA was adopting. Now that we can look back in hindsight, I still believe in the decision that was made and know that we made the right choice. The ROF cap has been easy to enforce through the use of PACT timers and parabolic microphones. The rules, along with the hardware, and the harsh penalties that were dished out to the offenders, have gone a long way towards leveling the field of play. The CFOA has seen its share of penalties and suspensions for those that tested the limits of the ROF rules. The only challenge to the rules these days are the few players who attempt to utilize a breakout mode on their cheater boards. These actions resulted in the use of the parabolic microphone to catch these breakout cheats.

After rereading some of this thread, the statement that struck me as the most ironic was the part about the NPPL being the only league that was trying to prevent marker cheats by utilizing a scrutineer and the infamous robot. I'm not trying to bash the NPPL, but here we are 2 years later, and its probably been that long since any NPPL player was stupid enough to get caught by the robot. The NPPL is also without any form of ROF cap. Having been to both PSP and NPPL events this season, I've seen and heard more fast guns at the NPPL events than at ROF capped (CFOA/PSP) events. There is no way those players shoot that fast without electronic assitance.

In my opinion, the cheater boards almost ruined tournament paintball. The unscrupulous manufacturers and players that produce and use these cheater boards are still doing all they can to obtain an advantage on the field. The cheats are still far ahead of those who would police them.

Players and teams are faced with 3 choices when trying to determine where to compete; 1) play wherever and play straight up, 2) play on a level playing field, or 3) play wherever and be prepared to fight fire with fire. The CFOA chose to level the playing field. The CFOA staff and officials will continue to remain vigilant in the policing of the ROF cap.

Larry Motes
CFOA


A) I'm a fan of ramping, I don't think trigger speed should be part of the skillset tested.

B) I realize PSP and CFOA are different.

I am going to disagree on the ease of enforcement though. I specifically asked for a PACT timer at a PSP event early in the day - the field I was playing on never saw one all day. Maybe the "big boys" get them, but we sure did not have any ROF enforcement.

[Steelrat]

Just a nice reminder of why I really don't play anymore.

[Cold Steel]

The biggest difference between the PSP and the CFOA concerning the ability to enforce a ROF cap is in personnel. The PSP puts on huge events all across the country. I don't have any facts to support this, but I would guess the PSP has virtually a new reffing crew for every event. The CFOA has a group of dedicated, paid refs who (for most part) ref every event. These guys travel with the league, wherever it may go. CFOA refs were utilized at MAO and will be utilized again at the World Cup. These guys are second to none when it comes to reffing.

Larry

[Lohman446]

The biggest difference between the PSP and the CFOA concerning the ability to enforce a ROF cap is in personnel. The PSP puts on huge events all across the country. I don't have any facts to support this, but I would guess the PSP has virtually a new reffing crew for every event. The CFOA has a group of dedicated, paid refs who (for most part) ref every event. These guys travel with the league, wherever it may go. CFOA refs were utilized at MAO and will be utilized again at the World Cup. These guys are second to none when it comes to reffing.

Larry

I would venture then that what you partially attribruted to a cap can be contributed to a better reffing crew. A better reffing staff could fix a lot of the issues in PSP and NPPL.

[Cold Steel]

I think it boils down to a good crew, that knows the rules, that enforces the rules, and that crew being there consistently to do the job. It also helps to deal with the same core group of players event after event, season after season.

Larry

[Cyberious]

Question is ( now that I've been out of the game for a while and coming back) does that make my handy dandy X-Mag illegal since it has the max rate of 20 bps. Or do they rely on technology to find cheaters?