Volume or accuracy ?

[NIghtStalker001]

Every thread and Forum always talks about how fast can your gun shoot ...whats the bps does anybody focus on accuracy anymore?you know making the shot count.I have a old minimag that at tops i've shot 5-9 balls per second and I have taken out so many people with that thing.I'm not trying to brag but people will spend $50 or more on a upgrade that will allow an extra 1-2 balls a second I just dont see the point in that.
Can anybody please explain this to me? Or are there any ballers still out there that are like me?

[RogueFactoryKid]

more balls means better chance to hit. If the speed of the gun didnt matter dynasty and company wouldnt shoot the 20 bps guns. So for all the people that say you dont need to shoot fast to win, go watch any national paintball event and tell me how many teams didnt shoot at least 12 bps....

[Maclete]

Yea, these kids are way too hopped up on how fast that they can shoot. I'm always telling them all it takes is one

[trains are bad]

Accuracy is good. Volume is good. Both is even better.

[NIghtStalker001]

I can understand to hold someone down,But Ive one a small three man tournament with everyother team using fancy guns and 5 a second will also hold someone in believe me.We won the tournament and everyone that gave me dirty looks before entering using a mag came up afterwards and gave me props.

[yakitori]

It is a common misconception that shooting a large volumes of paint means that you are not placing the balls in a good spot. Most ppl in pro tourneys Im sure are using good accuracy combined w/ high volumes of paint. To me it isnt either/or, it is both. Placing a lot of balls in a good spot is necessary when everyone else is using large volumes of paint.

[NIghtStalker001]

I own two markers 1 is a eclipse impulse with vision that can shoot 20 a second,I get more kills on my mag because I focus the shoot more.It trips me out does this happen to anyone else?

[yakitori]

Yea, these kids are way too hopped up on how fast that they can shoot. I'm always telling them all it takes is one

what if that one bounces? what if there are 3 more right behind it and they all break.

[NIghtStalker001]

It is a common misconception that shooting a large volumes of paint means that you are not placing the balls in a good spot. Most ppl in pro tourneys Im sure are using good accuracy combined w/ high volumes of paint. To me it isnt either/or, it is both. Placing a lot of balls in a good spot is necessary when everyone else is using large volumes of paint.

Now for Pros I can understand they know how to shoot fast and accurate but if they have a shot and take it and the aim is there does 5 a second compaed to 15 matter if he has a shot he has a shot.my thing is you only need to shot really fast to hold someone down,but if you make a good move and have a angle is 20 nessasary it probably only takes 4 quick pulls to take the guy out so whats the point of 20 a second?

[Vanced]

To quote Dale Hilton the owner of the former BOA Barrels..

"Accuracy By Volume"


Not to mention it sounds cool to shoot fast, and it does help keep peoples heads down ?

That is if cost of paint isn't a big factor to you... again it is an old debate... with no clear cut winner...

EDIT: I enjoy playing both ends of the spectrum, I enjoy playing with my pump or old minimag against the latest E-Guns as well... I just don't want to be on either side of this debate... both schools of thought are mostly right... and I have been playing long enough that like as much varity in my paintball as possible...

[68magOwner]

ok, for some reason, people shooting slower bps assume they are shooting more accurately. I can assure you, that you pulling 5-9bps on your mag causes it to jump around alot more than if i were shooting in the high teens on my viking, so, are my shots more accurate? no, because that term dosent really make any sense in paintball, but, my shots are more precise (meaning a tighter shot grouping). Also, high ROF has more applications than just shooting people, when someone is shooting really fast, they are normally laning, or keeping someone in, if they actually have an easy shot on somone, chances are than there not gonna rip of 50 shots their way.

now, the price of upgrades that may slightly increase ROF, i too think is out of hand (like $80 for a freaking trigger, ect), but, as long as people will pay that much, company's will charge that much.

also, you have a higher chance of eliminating someone at a high ROF because of having balls behind bounce shots ect.

[Lohman446]

Accuracy is good. Volume is good. Both is even better.


I am so stealing that saying

[Dayspring]

You've probably only played in local tournaments. In the bigger ones, one ball means it's only one hit they have to wipe off.

And there is a LARGE difference between a 5bps holding someone in and 14+. I'm more apt to come out on a 5bps than I am a 14. There's more of a window.

Plus, go bunker somebody with one shot. They'll spin and shoot you and while you're arguing, he's wiping.

Tom's said it best. Accuracy by volume.


Now for Pros I can understand they know how to shoot fast and accurate but if they have a shot and take it and the aim is there does 5 a second compaed to 15 matter if he has a shot he has a shot.my thing is you only need to shot really fast to hold someone down,but if you make a good move and have a angle is 20 nessasary it probably only takes 4 quick pulls to take the guy out so whats the point of 20 a second?

[JKR]

Every thread and Forum always talks about how fast can your gun shoot ...whats the bps does anybody focus on accuracy anymore?you know making the shot count.I have a old minimag that at tops i've shot 5-9 balls per second and I have taken out so many people with that thing.I'm not trying to brag but people will spend $50 or more on a upgrade that will allow an extra 1-2 balls a second I just dont see the point in that.
Can anybody please explain this to me? Or are there any ballers still out there that are like me?

People quit worrying about accuracy and making shots count when speedball became the most prevalent form of tournament and recreational pball. Stealth, accuracy, shooting technique, and concealment seem to be words of the past. If you are lucky enough to find a group of guys and gals to play with/against that haven't been caught up in the arms race and don't care about hyper-fast electros, consider yourself lucky.

I am the only pumper in a group of recreational, renegade players and I hold my own. An Armson Pro-Dot tops my Sniper II and regularly helps me accurately place paint on the other guys. Accuracy can be a part of paintball, despite what others may say. Any old-schoolers like myself who may have or still do individually roll balls and sort out the wobblers can attest to that!

Oh, and in my group we have no refs and call ourselves out after one hit--another rare things these days.

Justin

[mag88888]

i like how daypsring explained it. many times the same situation that he said has happened to me. i have shot someone 1 or 2 times, were arguing and he wipes, so the ref sais hes still in. many times at my local field i shot someone 1, they wiped, i shot 2 , they wiped, after that i unloaded. everytime it was necessary. wiping is a real problem in the game. if people woudnt cheat it would be so much better.

[MADS~DW~]

I think shooting fast is cool and sounds good lets face it if your oponant is daft enough to come out at you with a snap while your hosing down his cover with 20bps then bounces and accuracy dont come into the equasion.

[CaliMagFan]

your target is not always exposed for a whole second...... if you're shooting 20 bps and the guy sticks out for a quarter second, then you maybe can hit him with 5 balls... but you'd be lucky to get him with one-given the inherant inaccuracy of paintballs.... now if you're only shooting 4 bps and the guys is again out there for 1/4 second... you'll have time to only shoot 1 ball... good luck hitting him... cause luck is what you'll need..

when ever have people stopped using technology to advance their tools beyond the "necessary" needs of their use?..


-kyro

[MADS~DW~]

nice line , and totaly agree come the day when agd anounce there all singing all dancing pnumatic grip frame that puts e grips to shame and obsolesans we will all make a b line for our plastic dreaming of 20bps with no batteries on board. :rolleyes:

[urbansix]

One of the instructional videos on webdogradio explained it to me the only way the insane BPS/ROF of today made any sense from a tactical standpoint. Basically, a beam of balls is like a wall, and the gaps between the balls are doorways. If you are shooting say 10 BPS at 300 FPS, there is a gap of 30 feet between each ball - a doorway of 30 feet going by at 200 MPH that you have to go thru to get thru the lane. If the ROF is increased to 15 BPS the "doorway" shrinks to 20ft.

So IMHO the high ROF helps for the concept of suppressive fire - a tactical tool for controling the opponent's ability to move. That's why you hear so much emphasis on "controlling lanes" - those are the lanes an opponent must pass thru to move up.

(Caveats:
1. the 200mph reference is not accounting for deceleration, yes, i know
2. I don't really play speedball, so this may be a bunch of hooey, but it made some sense to me, unlike alot of other things about speedball.)

[Enemy]

^^ that made no sense what so ever.. put kyro made some good points.. the biggest thing i see with bps is both in that when someone is snapping on you you want the gap between balls to be as short as possible.. but also look at when you snap.. its hard to get a good aim on something when snapping so you want to get as much paint out there as possible but at the same time you dont want to be exposed for more than 1/4 second so now instead of only geting 1 shot of at the guy whos posted on you you get 4-5..odds are only one of those 4-5 will hit because paint doesnt group as tight as we would like but like you said it only takes 1.

[justjoshin590]

no he made perfect sense, the less balls in the air the more distance between them, its easier to run through 5bps then 25bps in simpler terms

[NewMagMan21]

Well personally I love playing with my classic mag. I CAN shoot up to 10-11 bps because of it ups. I said CAN because if I want to I can but usually I shoot about 5 bps. Thats how I play but some people like playing pump others like playing 20 bps. Personally I like both but as you can see its all just what works for ones lifestyle. Some are sponsered, have a job, or have rich parents. Personally I have about a $60 a month budget being 15 and so its hard for me to be the one who throws millions of paintballs keeping others down. Anyway it just comes down to money, lifestyle and sponsers pretty much.
And "DaySpring" your dumb "you say that you'd come out on 5 bps rather than 14 because theres more of a window." If anything that "urbansix" says is near true that 5 bps would have about 60 ft between them and at 300 fps then you'd have about .2 seconds to come in, shoot and come out.
What CaliMagFan saidperfectly true about hiting a guy with one ball is true in that you see the guy before he sees/ heres you because personally when I see someone firing at me I have a tendency to duck in so Im not hit. If the one you're shooting at just pops out for a snap shot and you have a line of paint traveling up and down his bunker then he's just screwed.
In my opinion the only reason to shoot 20 bps is lane shooting, or any off the break shooting. I hope that helped (I probably will just tick people off)

[B.A.M.]

Accuracy is good. Volume is good. Both is even better.
Agree totaly like when you shoot a lane its good to have many a ball in the air but accuracy when you snap shoot.

[mag88888]

i personally dont like it when people lane shoot. its just cheap to me. they dont care about how much money they piss down the drain CAUSE THEY ARE SPONSORED. but i believe in strategy. i used to use a spyder extra, it was terrible for shooting fast but i would just as good as other people with fancier guns. but it is FUN to shoot alot. haaha.

[Dayspring]

And I'm dumb how?


And "DaySpring" your dumb "you say that you'd come out on 5 bps rather than 14 because theres more of a window." If anything that "urbansix" says is near true that 5 bps would have about 60 ft between them and at 300 fps then you'd have about .2 seconds to come in, shoot and come out.

[vonort]

A very wise man once stated this on this subject.


"Accuracy by volume can be done by any monkey".. Glenn Palmer. :)

[NewMagMan21]

And I'm dumb how?

(saying that the paintball is in the correct spots, meaning this person knows where to shoot) There is no way that you are going to pop in and in that amout of time. .2 seconds is about enough time to come out. You could pop out but it would be a stupid way to get out in the middle of a game. And thats saying you come out with the back of your head being slightly touched by the paintball and you'd still only have .18 seconds left.

[Dayspring]

:rolleyes:

If you change where your head peeks out, instead of coming out at the same place every time, there's a whole lot better of a chance on 5bps. On 14, there's more of a chance that there may be a ball waiting there.

And you'd be surprised how quickly someone can move their head.

[FSU_Paintball]

There's a difference between accuracy BY volume and accuracy AND volume. Putting your shots where they need to be and pulling the trigger very quickly aren't mutually exclusive.

[Pump Scout]

Yep, it's nice to have the option of having both, but there was a great gunfighter in the Old West who said, "Fast is nice, but accurate is everything".

Want proof? Take an Armson barrel (great when dry, but...), deliberately break a couple balls in it, then go pound away at 15bps. I can assure you nobody will worry about your 15bps when they're nowhere near the intended target.

That reminds me, I have to replace the Armson on my pump as soon as possible. Slag one ball in the damn thing, and it's goodbye accuracy!

[yakitori]

dayspring is right, because he plays in tourneys. And I totally agree w/ what he says. I know for a fact that it is relatively easy to come out at 5bps. When about 14 or so BPS is hitting your bunker, then you are a bit more reluctant to come out. I will still come out at 14 bps though. If you pay attention to what side of the bunker the person is shooting on, then you can come out of the bunker somewhere other than the side they are shooting at.

[C_22]

Volume over accuracy. It may "only take one" (I don't follow this rule much as some people are... "faulty" in fact, it does not take "just one" most fo the time) but volume allows plays outside the bunker, keep the other guy in, more chances to hits a dude if he/she is running and well, it's just more powerfull IMHO gameplay. :headbang:
The reason I shoot trix familiy guns is beacuse at high volumes, their accuracy is still pretty damn good.

My 0.02 centavitos...

[NIghtStalker001]

I would be real curious to see what whoud happen if they had a tournament that capped at 5 bps and see how these guys do.In sales its a numbers game and conversion is key, to see how good you are.I read a post here that mid players or back players shoot 1000-2000 rounds a game and may hit a few guys but the conversion sucks.2000 rounds and lets say 2 kills thats like a tenth of a percent kills to paint being sprayed ratio.
In tournament world I relize its nessasry to do the job at hand but how good would they play if that option of spraying paint was not afforded.How good would you be?Or is laying paint all you got?

[Vanced]

I would be real curious to see what whoud happen if they had a tournament that capped at 5 bps and see how these guys do.In sales its a numbers game and conversion is key, to see how good you are.I read a post here that mid players or back players shoot 1000-2000 rounds a game and may hit a few guys but the conversion sucks.2000 rounds and lets say 2 kills thats like a tenth of a percent kills to paint being sprayed ratio.
In tournament world I relize its nessasry to do the job at hand but how good would they play if that option of spraying paint was not afforded.How good would you be?Or is laying paint all you got?

It does exist...They are called "Stock-Class" or "Pump" Tourny's ... and they are not equally popular...so unfortunatlly either a majority of people don't want to know or more likely don't care...

[NIghtStalker001]

Good point.

[MADS~DW~]

Quick question>> how much do you guys in the states pay for a box of paint ??
We in the uk can expect to pay £30 per 2000 box of premium paint.

[Bubonic Plauge]

Its also like gas and cars....they are married you know.

The more paint you shoot, the more $ you spend :D

[trains are bad]

it's about $50-$70

[Kaiser Bob]

if you are in the tournament world, but not quite at the free paint level you'd probably expect to pay about 30ish for midrange stuff like Blaze 40ish for inferno and RPS paint, 50ish for upper tier paint

PS- The Pan Am was a paint limited event, last i heard, that is if that's still going.

[Vanced]

Good point.

Thanks:

But here is a bit of a suggestion that I have sugested here and played before... that gives a nice balance of Accuracy vs. Volume.

If you want to level a playing field real quick, and see how good people really are. But you and I both know it is about impossible to get people to put down their thousand+ dollar guns and play with something less... or god forbid play pump...

Challege who ever your are playing to play a game without any battery powered hoppers. A gravity only game is a very quick, cheap, and easy way that makes it fun and as close to fair as it can be for the latest noob with his Walmart spyder clone and enough of a change for the latest Dye, Timmy, whatever... and typically any field will have plenty of old VL 200's or what ever laying around to loan out... and will cap you around the range you are looking for.

Note: a Level 10 is a VERY nice advantage is this type of game... :cool:

Hell ... I always said the battery was the death of paintball. At least the type of paintball I grew up playing.

Also: to answer the prior question... yeah about $40 for mid grade $50 for high test...

[Lohman446]

But, be careful you dont mistake shooting a lot of paint to not being accurate or being able to shoot slowly well. My teams style is odd - as a front player on the tape line its my job to provide secondary laning to that tape on my way to the first bunker.. I normally drop a pod on the way there for this purpose to keep my tape clear and the bunkers that defend it. I will often then drop another pod on my next move... covering my own move - and these are both at a good rate of fire (14BPS via Shocker rebound mode where allowed). This is normally in the first thirty seconds of the game. After that it is normal for me to shoot less than 30 balls the rest of the game - and I score more eliminations when Im positioned and shooting slow.

[NIghtStalker001]

After that it is normal for me to shoot less than 30 balls the rest of the game - and I score more eliminations when Im positioned and shooting slow.

Lohman this is what I'm talking about.You use it when you need to but if the position is right or your playing like you should at a certain point 25 a second is not nessasary.

[Tyger]

I'm always more impressed when someone can do with one ball what a novice tries to do with 500.

-Tyger

[Dayspring]

I think you have this misconception that tourney players do nothing but shoot paint just to shoot. It's not true.

One reason this guy is only shooting another 25 balls the rest of the game is because he's gotten into a position where they are keeping him in with a sustained ROF.



Lohman this is what I'm talking about.You use it when you need to but if the position is right or your playing like you should at a certain point 25 a second is not nessasary.

[Vanced]

I think you have this misconception that tourney players do nothing but shoot paint just to shoot. It's not true.

One reason this guy is only shooting another 25 balls the rest of the game is because he's gotten into a position where they are keeping him in with a sustained ROF.

Yep, IMHO, Speed/Tourny ball is not just shooting more often and faster. It is that you shoot more often and faster with the need and the intention for your shots ( and moves ) to have more of a purpose than to simply get eliminations...

[LeatherPants]

It's true. "It takes only one." But I have more "ones" in the air than you.

I play back. I shoot alot of paint. But there is a purpose to my "dumping" paint. I'm not randomly shooting. I have to move my front and stop the other front from moving. I shoot alot when I also am on the move. I tuck people in. I close lanes. That's my job.

If someone is dumping paint you can tell. It's easy to come out on someone even if they are throwing 20bps. It's knowing how to throw paint and where.

True anyone can buy a highend marker and shoot tons of paint but it is those with skill that use it as part of their game.

[Lohman446]

I played a tournament two weeks ago - I was playing on one team and some people I know playing on another. It was a three man and they took up an entire team, I played pickup on another team. Between the four of us, in (if I recall) 12 games for me and 15 for them we shot just over a single case of paint. They lost two games all day...

The point is, well paint in the air undoubtedly helps - it is over depended on by many players. My team had a hard time competing against hte team of my friends.. because they hit there bunkers and posted.. it was hard to tell where they were, and if you peeked they could often snap you. Keep in mind they are some of the best players I know.

You can use all that paint in teh air to your advantage... I listen to see where people are shooting from, watch lanes to figure where they are... and there stream of paint often enough allows me to snap them from a different angle.

Paint in the air helps, it has a place, but it is getting overused and overdepended on to do things it simply cannot do well. Yes, a great skill, but only one of many skills needed

[trains are bad]

One reason this guy is only shooting another 25 balls the rest of the game is because he's gotten into a position where they are keeping him in with a sustained ROF.

so true. In 3man I may not even carry pods, and may play several games on 200 paintballs. Because my teammates are keeping the lock down with well placed firepower.

[NewMagMan21]

:rolleyes:

If you change where your head peeks out, instead of coming out at the same place every time, there's a whole lot better of a chance on 5bps. On 14, there's more of a chance that there may be a ball waiting there.

And you'd be surprised how quickly someone can move their head.

.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
This is why I said about the person knowing where to shoot. I play pump ball and I know that I can place balls in certain spots that people will come out at. Personally I get more gogged players with my maverick by doing this than I do wih my mag/ Bushmaster.
What Im saying is, is that if Im shooting 5 bps and just do a 5 shot string down the bunker, that works for me and if you pop out then your gone. But if people have to through shoot about 15 shots, hit the bunker, go to far out, and then some in the correct area then I just think thats a waste.
Anyway what Im saying is, is that the people you play with must shoot the wrong spots too often for you to think that you can come out at even 5 bps. You may play in tourneys but when I watch/ play with people other than my team/friends I see a lot of just bunker pounding and not shots that will get any out they just give the bunker or air some bruises ;)
Because If I ever come out when someone I play with shoots at me I will get tagged and I have pretty quick reflexes but not that fast.
Whatever you say but I dont care, you do what works for you and I'll do what works for me. But cant we just get along and bunker some mag bashers :cheers:

[Tyger]

Wait, are we talking REC or TOURNAMENT ball?

The answer is different depending on that.

-Tyger

[xXHavokXx]

My 3 machine guns are also sniper rifles.

If need be I can one shot, or i can mow.

Usually I choose to mow, why?

1.Paint Can bounce.
2.Wind
3. What if I miss
4. Women dig it.

[LeatherPants]

Lots of you guys keep talking about the Tournies you play and that most of them are 3 man. Well there you go. 3 man is nowhere near the same as a 5 or 7 man.

In a good 5 or 7 man game i'll blow through 7-11 pods. In a 3 man somtimes I just use a hopper.

You cannot compare a 3 man to a larger game. It's not the same type of play.

[Z-man]

I honestly just like shooting fast. I aggree 100% that accuracy + volume in the tournament ball world is the best combo, but I really am quite happy just dropping all my pods in 1 game for the sheer fun of it. One more reason I dont play too often ;) it's expensive for me.

[shatter_storm]

I find it to be much more rewarding when I can get people out with single shots. Part of it requires manuvering behind them, part's not being where they expect you to be, part of it is a little bit of luck.
But ninja eliminations are definatly the most satisfying. Anybody can hose down an area with a hopperfull of paint and win out over the odds. There arn't that many people that can place a single ball on target fast enough to make it count.



But yes, I'll admit to borrowing a friend's electro every once in a while and shooting through a half case of paint in one game. :shooting: :shooting: :shooting: Accuracy by volume indeed.

[ProX9]

volume or accuracy? I'll take excal

[NewMagMan21]

Wait, are we talking REC or TOURNAMENT ball?

The answer is different depending on that.

-Tyger

Umm Im talking about rec and 3-5 man tourneys. In games larger then that I think it would be necessary to shoot quite a bit, especially off the break the more out off the start the better.

[Gr0dy]

(saying that the paintball is in the correct spots, meaning this person knows where to shoot) There is no way that you are going to pop in and in that amout of time. .2 seconds is about enough time to come out. You could pop out but it would be a stupid way to get out in the middle of a game. And thats saying you come out with the back of your head being slightly touched by the paintball and you'd still only have .18 seconds left.
its common sense man, hes sayin its easier to come out on 5 bps then 14 because 14 theres 9 more balls in the air then 5, use your common sense...

[NewMagMan21]

Umm Im not saying that its any harder to come out. What Im saying it is if your playing againts a good/ accurately shooting player who knows what hes doing you would be dumb to come out on 5 bps. Use your common sense :wow: . Now if there are more balls in the air it makes you even stupid for coming out and getting shot when you could wait 2 more seconds and pop out a lot safer. Now if my common sense of not getting shot for no apparent reason is dumb then I guess I suck. :rolleyes: Use your common sense! :mad:

[White_Noise]

i play both 3-man and 5 man tourneys with 2 different teams. between these 2 teams, i play all positions. from front to mid to back, there isnt much difference in how much paint i shoot per game usually. in 3 man, ill shoot from 50 to maybe 350 balls. in 5-man, from 50 to 400 balls. granted in general ill shoot more the further back i am, but ive been in games when im sitting at the 50 and drop 2 pods snapping through people's lanes of paint.

my basic idea is that both accuracy and volume are neccessary. personally, im horrible at putting out lanes of paint for long periods of time, and therefore dont like playing back, and if i do play back, i prefer to move up immediately. however, when snap shooting, which is most of the shots i get, its important to be very accurate, however, if i can get 3-5 balls off in the time someone else gets off 1-2, im in a much better position to hit them.

for those that shoot high volumes of paint during games, as long as they know what theyre doing with and arent just shooting a bunker for fun, then its ok. if theyre shooting loads of paint, they had better be either setting up moves for others, or setting up moves for themselves and not just repeatedly shooting a bunker while no one on the team is moving.

[Thunder Bunny]

I own two markers 1 is a eclipse impulse with vision that can shoot 20 a second,I get more kills on my mag because I focus the shoot more. It trips me out does this happen to anyone else?
I know pump players that have excellent accuarcy. I'm not trying to stir up the pump vs semi debate, but when you don't have the volume you must have the accuarcy.

[Gr0dy]

Umm Im not saying that its any harder to come out. What Im saying it is if your playing againts a good/ accurately shooting player who knows what hes doing you would be dumb to come out on 5 bps. Use your common sense :wow: . Now if there are more balls in the air it makes you even stupid for coming out and getting shot when you could wait 2 more seconds and pop out a lot safer. Now if my common sense of not getting shot for no apparent reason is dumb then I guess I suck. :rolleyes: Use your common sense! :mad:
obviously i can't get what im saying threw your head, so i think i ll just give up

[C_22]

...but when you don't have the volume you must have the accuarcy...

It's as simple as that.

[NewMagMan21]

obviously i can't get what im saying threw your head, so i think i ll just give up

No seriously what are you saying Im trying to learn more about pball but get my point acrossed. What do you mean!!! :confused: :confused:

[NIghtStalker001]

what type of paintballer whould you say you are scenario, tournament, or recreational that might have somthing to do with the amount of paint you shoot. this is for all to reply.

[NewMagMan21]

I play all types but maily rec since our team hasn't been playing much

[tyrion2323]

(1) This is an age-old, pointless debate. You will always have a smattering of people on the extremes of either side. What many people don't realize is that these pro teams who shoot massive amounts of paint are not doing so to compensate for a lack of skill. They are the most skilled players in tournament paintball. They do so because they know that it's the best technique. They use their firepower to supplement their moving strategy. Without one or the other, the team will lose.
(2) NewMagMan21 - I'd recommend that you play a lot more tournaments before calling DaySpring dumb, or commenting on the strategies of paintball.

[Gr0dy]

No seriously what are you saying Im trying to learn more about pball but get my point acrossed. What do you mean!!! :confused: :confused:
ok ill try to explain this in the most easiest way i can, if there are 5 shots in a line holdin you in, wouldn't you peak out on 5 shots instead of 14, because with 14 shots theres more of a chance of you getting hit, im not sayin you will never get hit on a stream of 5 shots, but you may only get hit once and it bounces, but most likely if you come out on 14 you will get hit and splattered with paint.

[NewMagMan21]

I agree with that but all Im sayin is that it "shouldn't" matter it does but it "shouldn't. People shouldn't need to shoot that much to achieve the same affect. once you hit about 12-14 bps then people will start to borderline on their fingers being their skillz and then their real skillz.

[CaliMagFan]

we all want to play at the top of out game in all aspects....

shooting position and technique.

moving fast and intelligently..

outsmartting the opponent..

playing as a team....

shooting fast...

team communication...

why is it that we never hear people go on about those like: "you dont need to move quickly and fire intelligently.. it's all in XYZ skill, not movement..."

we all seem to except the other skills that i mentioned as wholly necessary for the sport of paintball, so why not shooting speed..... sure it's not the most important... but that means that you cant win a game on fast fingers alone....

stop and think for a minute before you cry about BPS..... its part of a system of skills that we all add up to play paintball...

-kyro

[jewie27]

In paintball, consistency is a better word than accuracy. We aren't shooting bullets.

[Kavall]

I would argue that the main reason the "pros" are shooting fast is because they can and that's what everyone else is doing. I would be willing to bet that if you limited the ROF of the "pros" markers to 7bps (random semi low number) that their games would look exactly the same as they do. Much slower and the bounce off factor and low ROF might become an issue, but 7-10 should just about cover it.

If you take a look at our society as a whole you will find we do a lot of things because people claim it is the best way and in reality it is just the way everyone else does it. The closest and best example I can give would be real firearms and a real gunfight. The best way to end a gunfight is to shoot someone. The best way to shoot someone is to aim, and shoot. How do we fight wars? We shoot everything we have at an attacker till something hits them! We don't aim, we don't place our shot, we just keep shooting till the otherside is dead. There have been many examples of a small group of trained soldiers taking out much larger, much greater armed forces by simple aimed fire. The main difference between real guns and paintball (from the point of the game) is accuracy, and there are no bounces. Which is why one shot kills is not a common practice on a paintball field. But 18-20 rounds per second? Let's get real.


I know that might piss some people off but it's my beleif.

[CaliMagFan]

shooting fast= owning lanes.... if you dont control the lanes in tournament level play... you're toast...

kaval========= GATLING GUN???? thats just an early example.... vulcan cannon on the a10 warthog ------ 60-80 rounds per second... and they're 30mm depleted uranium.. you cant tell me that you need more than one for a soldier.... so.. aiming does have its advantages, but the point is that if you aim and shoot more, you're likely to hit more.... because accuracy is a function of the human body, and we're not perfect... we're only human..

in a 7-10 bps touney game poeple would avoid running across lanes much less because they arent running through a rope... now they're dunning thru a tennis ball server...

-kyro...

i'm out.... europe callls me....
my last post in the USA for a while.. peace and happy holidays all

[SSMercury]

volume*accuracy=x hits

V*a=x (high rate of fire semis)

v*A=x (pump)

Benefits to both, they both do eliminations. One is FAR cheaper (don't forget marker prices, a VERY good pump is 300 dollars, MAYBE, compared to 700+ for a good semi), one is more fun. One pins down a player in speedball, the other can scare players witless in scenarios.

*****ing about which is better is moot, because it's all just opinion, and how you apply it.

Although, assuming accuracy is as good as possible, the only way to increase eliminations is to put more balls in the air, but, twice the RoF does not equal twice the eliminations, so therefore accuracy is being lost to volume.

Was someone saying the battery brought the death of old school paintball here? Ah, Vanced did. I agree.

I'm of the opinion that 10 bps is as high as ever needed. Plain gravity feeding tops at 13 or so?

[jewie27]

The only reason Pros use so much paint at such a high speed is because they don't have to pay for it. They are sponsored. Think about it, if they had to pay for paint they wouldn't be wasting a case a game.

[REDRT]

I find in normal rec ball it only takes one ball. I use my classic rt for that.
Speedball on the other hand I use the emag. Speed (bps) is needed to fire the lanes. Being a backman I have to keep multiple targets down so my front and mid players can do their jobs. The emag is very accurate, but I'm mostly shooting at air so my team can move into position. I try to hit at least one off the break. The best I ever done was three off the break, try doing that with something slow. A couple bonus balls are harder to wipe, oh yes there are people that wipe. Playing tournaments is very fun for me, but it gets to be kind of cut throat out there. One that wants to be on top needs lots practice, good team work, and reliable high speed low drag equipment.
To answer the question I say both volume and accuracy are important. Just a little more visa-versa depending on what your playing.

[XSSPL]

This is the same debate that's been raging since the inception of speedball. I played sponsored tourney woods ball, scenarios and some speedball tourneys in the mid 90's. I may be dating myself here, but when the mags burst onto the scene, they absolutely blew the doors off of the VM68's, Tippman's, Brass Eagle, F1 Illustrator...etc of the day.

Back then 7-10 bps was getting A LOT of COMPLAINTS and you would have to have been around for the early, early days of paintbal to truely understand why. To tell the truth, the spray and pray direction that the sport took, go me out of paintball for almost 6 years.

I play rec-only ball with players of all sorts and gun types and have no trouble getting my fair share of eliminations with my '97 model classic mag - a good barrel, good paint and a think on the fly tactical mindset can get you through.

Do I ever get tired of the same guys hurling 1/2 case of paint every game? - yes
Do I let them affect my game? - no

There's nothing better than makin a move on some speed demon wielder and giving them a 285 fps slap on the back of the head because they took their eye off of the field while reloading their 1500 dollar paint guzzler.

I say to each his own, but just because you can shoot faster does not make you a better player in my opinion.

[xXHavokXx]

There's nothing better than makin a move on some speed demon wielder and giving them a 285 fps slap on the back of the head because they took their eye off of the field while reloading their 1500 dollar paint guzzler.

I say to each his own, but just because you can shoot faster does not make you a better
player in my opinion.

I love how shooting someone with a nice gun is your motivation for playing. Like you should punish him or something.

[jewie27]

I love how shooting someone with a nice gun is your motivation for playing. Like you should punish him or something.

Kinda like using a Spyder or Pump gun to shoot out someone with a A4.

[xXHavokXx]

Kinda like using a Spyder or Pump gun to shoot out someone with a A4.


Exactly. I've always found it odd that when that circumstance happens the bragging is non-stop like they just slew a dragon or something. But if while on their perilous "david and goliath" like quest they get blasted it turns into " They were shooting hot because all their guns ramp the dwell up so they get to 400 fps, and their guns ramps so they were shooting 47 bps, and I was 3 ft away from them and they spun on me and shot me at least 111 times and then wiped, killed a baby on an altar to satan and had sex with my mom while my dad was tied up and gagged in a chair being forced to smoke cigarettes with no filters."

[XSSPL]

I love how shooting someone with a nice gun is your motivation for playing. Like you should punish him or something.

I think you may misunderstand what I really meant, which I can see how one could read that into it... but anyway...

I guess a better way to say it is NOT that I think someone with a "better gun" should be punished. Trust me, I have more than enough funds available to me to go buy a farkin DM4, 5, 10 whatever. I choose to continue playing with the same mag I used almost 10 years ago quite simply because it still gets the job done quite nicely.

In addition, in my particular area, I just don't see a whole lot of real talent in the ones I play with or against that tote around 1500 Bob Long's, etc... going through 2 cases a day.

Sure there are quite a few that are truely good at the speedball side of paintball play - good players period, but my real point was that I run into SO MANY underserved inflated egos because they have a "better gun" that mommy and daddy bought. Those are the ones that I take great pride in taking down a notch or two by OUT PLAYING them.

I'll even take it a step further and say that I feel even more rewarded when I am able to put out a high caliber player with a very fast marker.

does this make more sense or am I still some kind of jaded prick because I think that 20 bps in rec ball is rediculous??

[xXHavokXx]

That sounds better, just the way I read it just made it sound like all that stuff I hear on forums all the time where guys with less advanced(but still very good) guns make a point to shoot everyone with a battery in their gun as if it was a some sort of inside sport.

It makes sense to bring peoples egos back to planet earth when there parents bought them a timmy, angel or trix if they have no game, but sometimes they do.

sometimes at fields I see those guys who think any gun made after 98 is a cheater gun and anyone under 35 is too young to comprehend the sport and they make it their goal to claim trophies.


I dunno I think it's just un needed rivalry.

Hope this makes sense, just got back from the pub. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[gc82000]

Exactly. I've always found it odd that when that circumstance happens the bragging is non-stop like they just slew a dragon or something. But if while on their perilous "david and goliath" like quest they get blasted it turns into " They were shooting hot because all their guns ramp the dwell up so they get to 400 fps, and their guns ramps so they were shooting 47 bps, and I was 3 ft away from them and they spun on me and shot me at least 111 times and then wiped, killed a baby on an altar to satan and had sex with my mom while my dad was tied up and gagged in a chair being forced to smoke cigarettes with no filters."


There are kids like this at my rec fields. the little punks :D i still love em though. who else can I practice on.

When my team "practices" or plays rec we usually only use a hopper or maybe even less in a game. no big deal. Lately I have been practicing with 50 balls in a rec game. I own an A4 and play very well with it. In a tourney I can fire it up to 27 bps (no ramp necesary), and use 5-7 pods,but only when I play back. If you are a frontman and are pumping out 4+ pods in a game something is very wrong with your game, even if you play 10 man.

But I put more of an emphasis on movement and comunication more then on bps in my training. To me that is just more important.

[TOMBSTONE]

THE DAY WILL COME WHEN NO ONE WILL OWN THEIR MARKER AT A TOURNMENT
EACH TEAM WILL BE GIVEN A MARKER AND ALL MARKERS WILL BE EXACTLY THE SAME
THEN WHEN GAME OVER YOU HAND THEM BACK IN THAT WILL STOP ALL THE PROBLEMS
------ *****GAME OVER -------- JUST A THOUGHT :spit_take

[stoney76]

[QUOTE=Dayspring]You've probably only played in local tournaments. In the bigger ones, one ball means it's only one hit they have to wipe off.

That just sucks! I know it's true but when people wipe, how can they have any pride in what they've accomplished? Teammates need to squash that. NOT WELCOME...money or not. The coolest people to play with are the ones who yell out, "nice shot!" to the person that just tagged them...because it was. They won and for that second in time, they are better.....especially if you made a mistake and got punished for it. I would like to catch those guys with todays technology!! :shooting: