The Age Old Question(s)...

[WickeDKlowN]

So I'm finally starting m new PC, the Lian-Li PC-61 sowed up today, and it's almost time to start buying componnts. I'll probobly buying them in the couple days after chistmas so I don't think prices will have dropped too too uch by then. Going to have ~$800-$900 to spend mabey a lil' more.

1st and foremost: P4 3.0GHz or A64 3000+? Always used AMD, love them to death and no reason to stop using them. Although, I kinda want to switch it up a bit. Plus with the P4, I'll be saving $70 by buying a PCI-E Video Card. Don't reccomend anything thats much more powerful cause these both fit my budget and I'm gonna OC the hell out of them.

Then, which mobo: Looking at the Abit AA8XE or the Asus A8V Deluxe, for P4 and A64 respectivly.

Ram: Looking for a gig, probobly PC2-4300 for the P4 and PC-4400 for the A64. Mainly been looking at Corsair XMS, OCZ, and Kingston HyperX or whatever it's called.

Video Card: Thinking about an ATI X700 Pro, but the 6600GT is looking pretty sweet(not to mention cheaper).

I think I'm gonna go with some cheap Antec PSU, stock case fans and stock cpu/gpu cooling till I can aford Water cooling. Any insight/suggestions/comments on the other stuff would be greatly appreciated. I'm so cunfused, there's too many choices, lol. But like I said, don't want to spend much more then $800-$900.

[Darken Sun]

- A64 3000+ 90nm (s939) (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-501&depa=0)
- MSI K8N Neo2 Plat (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-468&DEPA=0)
- 512mb OCZ PC3200 EL Platinum Rev.2
- E-VGA 6600GT (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-130-214&depa=0)
- Thermalright XP-90 with Vantec Tornado 92mm 119cfm (http://www.crazypc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=50960)
- Ultra X-Connect 500w PSU (http://xoxide.com/ultra-x-connect-power-supply.html)
- Seagate 160gb 7200rpm SATA hdd (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-148-018&depa=0)

That OCZ RAM is perfect for OC'ing. It has TCCD chips on a modified BrainPower PCB, so it OC's like mad.
One more thing, NEVER go with a cheapo/generic PSU, especially if you want to OC. It just won't be stable.
Third thing: there is really no reason to go PCI-E now. It shows no improvement over AGP at the moment. To explain it, here's a quote from bigred on Overclocker's Club

looks like I have to explain "16x" PCI-express in the 80th thread now

AGP 8x = 8x transfer from CPU to GPU OR 8x from GPU to CPU... one way or the other

PCI-Express 16x = 8x transfer from CPU to GPU while also allowing 8x transfer from GPU back to the CPU

now take into account that your GPU is part of the video card and therefore is an OUTPUT device. in order for it's bandwidth to increase you need to up the amount of data sent to it from CPU. the only time the GPU talks back is to basically let the CPU know it's still there and still working on the data sent to it.

also SLI PCI-express is only running @ 8x from the CPU to EACH GPU. they've completely cut out the signal from the GPU to the CPU... shows how important the GPU's ability to send info back to the CPU is.

[CasingBill]

Go with Pentium if you plan on trying to overclock. They are safer. Asus boards are it for me. Luv em. Work flawlessly everytime.

[Darken Sun]

Go with Pentium if you plan on trying to overclock. They are safer. Asus boards are it for me. Luv em. Work flawlessly everytime.
No way at all. A cool CPU is a "safe" CPU, and P4 Pressies run as hot as a toaster oven.
First, what kind of thermal paste would a typical user use? Generic stuff that comes with their motherboard or stuff like Antec makes. This picture is a Pressie with OEM hsf and generic thermal paste:
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041114/images/bios.jpg
Now, if these are at the thermal limit at stock speeds, there is absolutely NO room for overclocking. However, A64's can achieve amazing overclocks.
http://forums.overclockersclub.com/uploads/post-1-1102910923.jpg
That was with a stock HSF and on Newcastle core (130nm), running stable. With Winchester core (90nm) A64's, people have been hitting the limits of the chip's architecture(generally around 2.6ghz for 3000+ and 3200+) on air long before heat becomes a problem.

As for Asucks boards; well, I just won't go there. I've heard a lot of people say that their A64 boards suck, but from personal experience, mine just flat out blew. Maybe it was a bad board, but it undervolts like crazy and misrecognized my processor.

[B.A.M.]

Go to a news stand and buy pc gamer. They list parts to build a cheap, medium or dream system. Also building your comp is really good but id recommend this mag called "the pc building bible" which is only on news stand which is very good.

Also the water cooling will look sick. And if you plan on playing games on this chough up the dough and get a decent vid card like an nvida or radon.

[CasingBill]

No way at all. A cool CPU is a "safe" CPU, and P4 Pressies run as hot as a toaster oven.
.

Cool is safe. True. But if either of these chips get hot.....which one will survive?......The P4!

[Darken Sun]

Cool is safe. True. But if either of these chips get hot.....which one will survive?......The P4!
Not if the person had Cool 'n Quiet enabled (like you would want that when overclocking anyway). And I don't know about P4's surving. Maybe it was just bad luck, but bigred (referenced in my first post) has killed his two lga775 rigs, a 3.8 and a 3.6, 4 or 5 times, simply because he hadn't put the MachII's (Phase Change, for those who don't know) on them yet. Well, seeing as he uses them for Folding@Home, they are under 100% load 24/7. On the 3.6, the PSU has blown, motherboard shorted, etc. The 3.8; it was his third. All three bad/cooked.

[CasingBill]

I'm pretty sure theres a vid on toms hardware of a test of both and overheating.

[Darken Sun]

I couldn't find the A64 at the limit video, but I found the P4 at the limit. (http://www12.tomshardware.com/images/thg_video_14_intel_heat.zip)
Now this is a quote from my friend, who asked that I post it:

My [Athlon] 64 3400+ beats the crap out of a P4 anyday. On high-overclock stress testing, the AMD 64 3400+ withstood a blistering 78 degrees with no degradation. Not only is this 48 degrees more than it runs at with a full working load, but with a good cooling system, it should never get that hot (my stress test was with a basic stock cooler, I use a [Gigabyte] 3d Cooler Ultra). [Intel] doesn't seem to realize that by pushing clock speeds, they aren't making a better processor. 5 Ghz is overkill. You don't need that many clock cycles if data can't enter your processor fast enough for it to be calculated effectively. AMD architecture has always been similar to Apple's, whose G5 cores are the fastest on the market. More inbound pipelines, bigger caches, and a smaller structure give even a low model [A64] an edge over a [P4]. Overclocking isn't everything. You can't overclock a processor's architecture. Argh, I hate revising stuff!

[Python14]

Go with Darkens recommended setup.

I've built three systems with the AMD 64-bit Athlon and very honestly? I love em. I love em enough that I built my own computer using an Athlon XP 3000+.

No reason to go with anything except OCZ ram. Performs great. Available in just about any speed/size. Expensive but worth it.

As far as ATI .vs. Nvidia.....kind of a touchy situation. Personally, I like Radeons....but you might like the 6600.

Mobo is self explainitory....though I think asus has some great ones.

PSU? No use getting a crappy one. Even if you have great components but crappy PSU, it won't matter. The Ultra X-connect whatever is quite decent and is slowly building a base for itself. Other good ones are OCZ.

For HDD? save a little more and buy a western digital 72 gb 10K rpm Raptor. Best purchase I've made.

Oh yeah, enjoy your Lian-Li case. I'm getting PC-V2000 and am getting just giddy from the thought.

[shatter_storm]

couple things to add to the fray:

there's no point in going pci-e for the video card unless you can save money (which you would - but how much more would you pay for the p4) or you're going to use SLI right off the bat (which you arn't, too darn expensive!)

I'm in favor of AMD, I've always liked their stuff and you don't really burn them up if you have half a brain about you.

and yeah, get a good, solid, dependable power supply from an established name brand. my friends can't figure out why their uberPC's crash randomly when they're still using the PS that came with their el cheapo case. :D

mobo, ram, looks good. get a couple of extra case fans for that rig and you should be good to go.

[Python14]

Go with a thermalright Heatsink. You won't regret it.

[bornl33t]

whatever you do avoid the via chip sets. I'm at 2 for 2 of crapy device conflics with these things, all my cheap boards work fine, just not the VIA's

[Mango]

Get this!

http://usa.asus.com/powerup/main.htm

[RazorMonkey]

www.anandtech.com

Your best friend...

New builders guides every week... Great stuff... :headbang:

[Python14]

lol mango...I remember when I first heard about SLI (save for back in the mid-late nineties when 3DFX did it with Voodoo 2), even I was like......ain't that a little overkill.

But hey, if he wants to spend more than his budget on two video cards alone....go for it.

[xmetal2001]

-
One more thing, NEVER go with a cheapo/generic PSU, especially if you want to OC. It just won't be stable.

Well, he said an "cheap Antec PSU", which is not a cheapo/generic PSU. Antecs are certainly great reliable PSU's.

[WickeDKlowN]

Ok, I think I'm gonna go with the 3000+ Winchester Core, MSI Neo2 Platinum and a Gig of OCZ. I've been looking at the X-Connect PSU's for a while to, guess I'll go ahead and get one.

Now the only question is PC-3200 or PC-4400. Probobly PC-4400 since I'm gonna be OCing.

I still think I'll stick with the stock cooling for now and get Water Cooling at some point.

And BTW, this isn't the first computer I've built. I built the 1.2GHz T-Bird system I'm on now.

[Darken Sun]

Well, he said an "cheap Antec PSU", which is not a cheapo/generic PSU. Antecs are certainly great reliable PSU's.
Oops. Must have missed that.


I've been looking at the X-Connect PSU's for a while to, guess I'll go ahead and get one.

Now the only question is PC-3200 or PC-4400. Probobly PC-4400 since I'm gonna be OCing.
Fry's has the X-Connect on sale for $50 after rebates through tomorrow and definitely get the PC3200. The guys at Anandtech (http://anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2226&p=12) got it to DDR580 at a 1T command rate and DDR600 with a 2T command rate.

Here's some tips on general use and overclocking with the Neo2:
- 1.36b BIOS is the best for overclocking (allows up to 1.9 vcore); attached
- only use SATA ports 3&4 (ones near AGP slot). 1&2 don't have working locks
- don't trust the board's temperature readings; use a thermal probe
- hold Shift+F2 then press Alt+F3 to unlock more features in the BIOS
- if you get an OCZ DDR-Booster, put it in slot 4
- DIMMs 3&4 sometimes don't work well
- run LDT at 5x for 200HTT, 4x for 201-250HTT, 3x for 251+HTT
- do NOT get an XP-120. It won't fit due to obstruction by caps
- set AGP to 67 or 68mhz (can't remember which at the moment) to lock AGP and PCI