Markm needs to calm down

[magman007]

Markm has gone on what seems to be one heck of a power trip, and many of us long standing members do not appreciate it. The 0 tollerance policy is in effect, i understand this, but really, alot of the bannings and thread closings, have been for such dumb things that it isnt even funny. He banned long standing member Joeyd(also a great contributor to ao and the chat) for saying the word EFFING. Circumventing the curse filter? i think not. Effing is something i say in daily use for lack of a better word. I use it when i dont want to say the F word. saying effing is just like sayin "'the "F word"' in conversation.

Also, closing a thread because something is illegal to own in the US, where as someone is just trying to find out information about the knife in question? Well then, dan at triggernomics should have his threads closed where he discussed his pieces of artwork and how the german government was not happy with them and how they were"illegal" in germany.

Mark, think before you act. the policy goes for us normal users, and i feel it should go for you. Ive never given you any trouble, and i dont plan too, but sometimes all of us adults slip up, sometimes in the heat of a post a ************ word comes out. heck, i dont even know what words are bannable! you can even reference a post i made back about a year ago, asking what words were caught by the cuss filter, and loadsm5 dont worry about it, that is what the filter is there fore. honestly mark, alot of these thread locks and bannings are un warrented.

THese are my feelings, and i know alot of people share them as well.

[1stdeadeye]

In before the lock! ;)

[magman007]

Ironically enough, your probabally right

[jdev]

bill.

thanks for sticking up for me. i dont know what sort of reputation I have here amongst the other members, though, I have been around for a while, and contribute my opinions where and when I can. I try to helpful when I can.. but eh, whatever.

I too agree. It seems all to strange to me that since Tom left, Mark has been on a severe power trip. Now, I may be drawing that line on my own, and they may have no connection but the one in my mind. Do I think mark has gone overboard in some cases, absolutely.

Case in point, the knife thread. He closed it because he saw posts citing that to own the knife was illegal.

The post initially wasn't a question of where to get one, it was spartan asking any other AOers if they knew any other info on the knife. It does seem that alot of AOers here collect things other than paintball guns. Knives/cutlery if you will and guns seem to be some of those things. I do have to ask the question though..

Mark, are you aware that somewhere in friendly corner there is a thread on gay marriage?

Thats not legal in the US either. Are you going to close that thread?

I just think that the rate of which you are going around and handing out bans, like you have a quota of bans to fulfill is asenine. Do I think in hindsight I should have been banned? No. But, it doesn't matter what I, or any other member of this board, sans the mods, think. As bill said, it wasn't swearing in a sense, it was substitution. Yes, I say the word "effing" or "eff" in my everyday vocabulary. I use that in substitution of lots of words.

Mods as of late seem to be preoccipied with keeping the peace around here, and upholding the integrity of the boards. In this process, you, specifically MarkM, don't realize that you are making this place less and less pallatable. Since mark has been handing out bans like free coke to crackheads, I haven't posted much. What I have posted, has mainly been voicing my displeasure with MarkM, or "registering my displeasure" as another AOer put it.

Mark has come out of the angels forum, and started handing out bans left and right. I guess I now know how the rest of the world feels about george bush.

-joe

[personman]

Yeah, no offence to Mark, I'm sure he's a great guy, but I've noticed this too.

[nippinout]

If you got beef with fruitcat, you got beef with America!

[B.A.M.]

In before the lock! ;)
darn you beat me

[LittlePaintballBoy]

Wow, I just looked at some of those threads and he does appear to be on some sort of a power trip... Hmm.

[PyRo]

Make me a mod instead :)

[LittlePaintballBoy]

No no no, we are looking for POSITIVE effects on AO.


:p

Actually, I don't think it would be a bad idea to have someone who is often on Friendly and someone who knows about things related to it as a mod...

[Lohman446]

:rolleyes: :nono: :eek: :mad: :shooting: :confused: :tard: :cuss: :cheers:
:hail:

Ok... time to translate this

Ok, I am going to agree that I think banning someone for the use of the term stated may have been overboard. However, you have now been told it is bannable - why challenge it in public? Have an issue take it up in private - no issue there. If it is in fact bannable to use it QUIT using it. These boards are maintained at great financial expense to AGD and through teh dedication of the mods. If you have a problem, perhaps it is best to discuss in pblic, or wtih another mod. YOu were told it was illegal, you were surprised, perhaps mad. Then you were banned... adn were confused. However continuing to use it is kinda well not too bright, if you are going to complain about it... do so with the moderators in private. In the end "can't we all just get along" Hail the mods for there dedication.

[fcpchop]

yes i too have noticed it, I'm sure he is a nice guy but he has gone a little trip. I think if we just wait it out it will pass.

[jdev]

:rolleyes: :nono: :eek: :mad: :shooting: :confused: :tard: :cuss: :cheers:
:hail:

Ok... time to translate this

Ok, I am going to agree that I think banning someone for the use of the term stated may have been overboard. However, you have now been told it is bannable - why challenge it in public? Have an issue take it up in private - no issue there. If it is in fact bannable to use it QUIT using it. These boards are maintained at great financial expense to AGD and through teh dedication of the mods. If you have a problem, perhaps it is best to discuss in pblic, or wtih another mod. YOu were told it was illegal, you were surprised, perhaps mad. Then you were banned... adn were confused. However continuing to use it is kinda well not too bright, if you are going to complain about it... do so with the moderators in private. In the end "can't we all just get along" Hail the mods for there dedication.

I'll hail every mod on this board, except for MarkM.

I have no quarrel with any of them. Again, lets not turn this thread into a why I was banned thing. Im not. Its more along the lines now that Mark is out of hand, and alot of members agree, its no longer a select few.

[Kai]

I guess this is a classier version of my thread.

[BobTheCow]

I don't really have any stunning new additions that need to be made, but I whole-heartedly agree that things have gotten a little crazy.

Also, what happened to the thread from last night/this morning on this subject? Hopefully this one won't get killed... :ninja:

**edit** BEATEN like an unwanted stepchild, as far as Kai's remark.

[Potatoboy]

For now, I'll let this stay, so long as it stays a discussion, and doesn't turn into a flame fest.

I can change my mind about this at any time however.

I will be checking every post on this thread, and the second it crosses the line it will be removed and the offender will have a nice ban, duration reflecting his/her post.

[fcpchop]

For now, I'll let this stay, so long as it stays a discussion, and doesn't turn into a flame fest.

I can change my mind about this at any time however.

I will be checking every post on this thread, and the second it crosses the line it will be removed and the offender will have a nice ban, duration reflecting his/her post.


Thank you, that is a completly fair way to do it and i couldn't agree with you more

[PyRo]

For now, I'll let this stay, so long as it stays a discussion, and doesn't turn into a flame fest.

I can change my mind about this at any time however.

I will be checking every post on this thread, and the second it crosses the line it will be removed and the offender will have a nice ban, duration reflecting his/her post.


You mean this line?
---
---
---
---
------
-----
----
---
--
-
__________________________________________________ __________________________________
^
....
....0.
.....>
....\.
...
......
.......
.......
Haha, I crossed it :)
Oh and that's supposed to be a person.

[magman007]

Tato, i appreciate your allowing of this discussion, i feel some things needed to get out in the open, and some times if things are taken up in private, the person in question cannot get a full understanding of how he or she is effecting the AO public at large.

[jdev]

Tato, i appreciate your allowing of this discussion, i feel some things needed to get out in the open, and some times if things are taken up in private, the person in question cannot get a full understanding of how he or she is effecting the AO public at large.


agreed

tato. thanks for keeping an open mind about this. I would love to hear what some of the mods think about marks actions over the past few days. I can understand if you cant answer, for fear of alienating mark.

[Eric Of Extreme Measures]

This is really not the time for this. we do need get over all that has happened. once we are censored, people will move on and then what, we loose AO. yeah thats all we need right now. they dont have enough pills for that!

Eric

Go get um JoeyD. I thought you said Elfen like christmas elfs?

[magking1971]

I know what you are talking about, I am afraid to post anything on AO anymore for fear of a ban for some unknown line that I crossed.
I have a bunch of things to sell here but I don't want to post them after mark was handing out the law for someone selling a DVD (some of mine are paintball related some are not)
So untill mark is brought under control I will not post on AO.
In before ban.

[Mango]

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jtrussell7/drama.jpg

[Eric Of Extreme Measures]

And besides JoeyD, if it werent for Marco breathing down my neck every time i log in here, I would have been kicked out the first week i signed in!

LOL
Eric

[bornl33t]

I for one am happy about Marks crack down, things have been getting out of hand and it's long over due.

[lopxtc]

Its all those years of repressed anger over the spilt tea .... :)


Aaron

[Glickman]

ive had no negative opinions on really any of the mods actions before this one, and partially the "activating" filter usurption.

these people banned were good contributers to the board, something hard to find now-adays.

ive also said "F'ing" multiple times since the filter activation thing, and nothing happend to me.

i think there should be no grounds for ban on assumption on trying to bypass the filter, but hey, its not my decision.


,,|,, (0|0) ,,|,,

[magman007]

I for one am happy about Marks crack down, things have been getting out of hand and it's long over due.


I agree, some things need to be adressed, but silly things like these, the dvd's, the knife thread, joe getting banned etc etc are over the top, and not necessary. what needs to be cut down are post whores, and overall jackassery

[LittlePaintballBoy]

Roofles...

[magman007]

thanks mango, for keeping the peace

[Mango]

Fixed, but you know making all the threads in the world will not solve anything. You can't fight city hall and they will let Mark do whatever he wishes.

Last night he restored a thread I wanted to delete, TWICE. He took it upon himself to override the thread creator and restore it two times.

Pretty http://sprayingmango.com/greddy.gif if I may say so myself.

[LittlePaintballBoy]

Which thread was this?

[Glickman]

Fixed, but you know making all the threads in the world will not solve anything. You can't fight city hall and they will let Mark do whatever he wishes.

Last night he restored a thread I wanted to delete, TWICE. He took it upon himself to override the thread creator and restore it two times.

Pretty http://sprayingmango.com/greddy.gif if I may say so myself.


homo-freaking-sexual?

you can fight city hall...

just grab its nuts, and ask for a cough.


or...



stifle them with having noone to govern over :D

[cphilip]

Fixed, but you know making all the threads in the world will not solve anything. You can't fight city hall and they will let Mark do whatever he wishes.

Last night he restored a thread I wanted to delete, TWICE. He took it upon himself to override the thread creator and restore it two times.

Pretty http://sprayingmango.com/greddy.gif if I may say so myself.



You don't have any more rights to that thread than we do. You posted it publicly... it's public information after that. If you don't want something to become public domain... don't post it in the first place... So don't get all fresh with me over something you posted you decided was not fit to remain. Think before you do it. After that...well... sorry... but its not yours anymore. Where did you get the idea it was. We might "allow" you to retract. But we don't have to. If the retraction hides something we feel people should know.... that you posted... your fair game. Sorry. But consequences are always possible. By the way. I moved that thread to the graveyard. So no one can see it now. So its dead. But its preserved. Not for the public. So thats the least I can do for all of you.

Mark is doing his job as best he knows how to do it. Sometimes you gotta realize there are differences in culture involved in interpretations. Some people get caught and some don't. Life ain't always fair. Get used to it. And for heavens sakes... keep real life and the internet in perspective!

And lately some people on AO have forgotten this is just an internet forum. It's not real life. Settle back and realize what's most important in life. Put as much effort into bettering the world and people around you as you do this place and the world will be a better place. Keep AO in perspective people. Relax.... take a chill pill... Everything will work out in the long run. Trust me. Some of you are acting like Chicken Little. Some of you are totaly acting like cry babies. Take a long look in the mirror and reflect on what is realy important.

[Mango]

Phil I know full well that its public domain. What I don't like is the fact that he misused his powers as a "moderator" to restore the thread, TWICE. If the thread creator EVER wishes to delete a thread that should never be questioned, just as the rediculous cuss filter rule should aparently, never be questioned.

[cphilip]

Which thread was this?

The thread included a cartoonish graphic that portrayed the World Trade centers coming down and people running from it. I don't think Mango ment it to portray that nor realized it would be taken that way....but there were some complaints about it being offensive to the Mods. So it is another example of ALL SIDES taking things too literaly or not thinking about the other perspective.

Nonsense Mango. If a member posts something a Mod must act on, that Mod is supposed to document why he did the action. Easiest way and best way is to move the thread out of view and harms way. You closed it so he could not. He opened it to move it. You closed it before he could. He opened it again. You closed it. Finaly today I opened it and moved it myself. No one tried to redisplay it. You just accidently interfered with him doing what he was told to do. And then you MISTAKENLY assumed some foul deed. Wrong.

there was an exchange between Mango and Mark...and that was the end of it. Far as I know. And should be the end of it.

[jdev]

You don't have any more rights to that thread than we do. You posted it publicly... it's public information after that. If you don't want something to become public domain... don't post it in the first place... So don't get all fresh with me over something you posted you decided was not fit to remain. Think before you do it. After that...well... sorry... but its not yours anymore. Where did you get the idea it was. We might "allow" you to retract. But we don't have to. If the retraction hides something we feel people should know.... that you posted... your fair game. Sorry. But consequences are always possible. By the way. I moved that thread to the graveyard. So no one can see it now. So its dead. But its preserved. Not for the public. So thats the least I can do for all of you.




If thats the case, why was Kai's thread deleted. I am told that the content of the thread was the same as this one. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[cphilip]

Phil I know full well that its public domain. What I don't like is the fact that he misused his powers as a "moderator" to restore the thread, TWICE. If the thread creator EVER wishes to delete a thread that should never be questioned, just as the rediculous cuss filter rule should aparently, never be questioned.

He thought you were trying to hide your actions. And he cannot move the thread for safety if you close it. He was covering his behind to open it.

Whats the curse filter got to do with it? Nothing. Don't curse and the filter is a moot point. Trying to change the subject now? Make a point for a change eh?

[cphilip]

If thats the case, why was Kai's thread deleted. I am told that the content of the thread was the same as this one. Please correct me if I am wrong.

A flame thread like this one or Kai's thread can be closed at any time. That one was not deleted It exists in Graveyard. Tater chose to let this one run to let you all get it out of your system and because some other arguments cropped up that need to be delt with. So you are wrong. The contents are not the same. This one starts with Mango accusing Mark of reopening his thread twice. And what realy happened was mark was reopening it just to move it. And Mango not knowing that kept closing it. End of story.

[GT]

what needs to be cut down are post whores, and overall jackassery

I am sure I fall into one of those two groups. :cry:

I'll add my .02 here:
It's not easy being a "new" mod. There is a learning curve with the "power" that comes with the job. I think cphill, just a preemptive butt kiss before I pm you to change my name again, is one of the best mods out of all the forums I have been apart of. He does a dam good job in interpting the spirit of a thread and its responses. I am sure he is mentoring MarkM along.

When I first became a mod on one of the honda boards I handed out bans like... It wasnt until I was modding a honda and a mazda board that I began to look at things alittle more light heartedly. I also became better at banning the buttheads quicker by the type of post they posted.


Cliff notes version: give the man some time.

[jdev]

A flame thread like this one or Kai's thread can be closed at any time. That one was not deleted It exists in Graveyard. Tater chose to let this one run to let you all get it out of your system and because some other arguments cropped up that need to be delt with. So you are wrong. The contents are not the same. This one starts with Mango accusing Mark of reopening his thread twice. And what realy happened was mark was reopening it just to move it. And Mango not knowing that kept closing it. End of story.


gotcha. thank you for clearing that up.

i was unaware that kais thread was a flame thread. I also dont see where this is a flame thread. More of a thread were certain members are voicing their dislike for a person, in what seems thusfar, to be a civiized manner.

[cphilip]

gotcha. thank you for clearing that up.

i was unaware that kais thread was a flame thread. I also dont see where this is a flame thread. More of a thread were certain members are voicing their dislike for a person, in what seems thusfar, to be a civiized manner.

Interpretation I suppose. A thread that has no other purpose but to complain about another member would be my interpretation. But its design is not to discuss a subject as much as it is to malign a member. So depending on how hostile it is I suppose it where it gets into flaming. Which is a very vauge term in itself.

What I had to do here was make everyone aware that Mark was trying to respond to a reported post and make a decission. And then when Mango chose to delete it...he was trying to document his action on that exchange by a common method of just archiving the post out of view. Since it was a deleted post who cares right? Only the mod invovled would. This is so if he was challenged on his action later we could all review it. And discuss it and learn from it.

So... what you don't realize is that he does not have the "move" option on a Deleted thread. Its not there. He has to open it first to do that... then wait for reload then hit the "thread options" that will then be there... then change it to move... then move it. He was attempting to do that. And each time, Mango thought he was up to no good by reopening it ( as thats all he saw at the time) and Mango would re-delete it before Mark could finish the move. Then it happened all over again. So when Mango was accusing Mark of reopening it (I guess to embarrase him or something?) Mark decided to just lay off and let me deal with it later. Even though Mark was doing what we ask him to do. Document and save things if you do an action so we can return it if we disagree or we can discuss it for next time. He was attempting to do that. Cover his behind so to speak. And Mango, not knowing what it was about took it wrong.

It's just timing is all. Unfortunate missunderstanding. I appologize for the misunderstanding. But again... there is no reason to always think the worse. You could turn out to look like a fool.

[tony3]

Phil I don't understand, so Mango tried to delete the thread with the offensive gif file, but Mark restored it? Just wondering if that is true.

Edit: Nevermind, I understand.

[Muzikman]

take a chill pill...



How about a Phil Pill? Come on Phil...you were around in the 70's, I know ya got some some place:)

**Trying to lighten the mood**

[cphilip]

... I took em all... every one of em.... the ones I liked I took two of

70's? heck... i was around in the 60's... partly...

[rkjunior303]

;)

[tony3]

Haahahahahahah, best photoshop ever.

[WicKeD_WaYz]

i say effing a lot, so if im not aloud to do that anymore someone let me know...but untill then....


effing
effing
effing


o and dont hate the mods, its kind of a dictatorship here whatever they say goes and thats what we have to deal with. ive seen a lot worse mods at least ours are reasonable MOST of the time.

[Blazestorm]

TEH DRAMA.

Guys.

It's an internet forum. It's a community. It's whatever you want it to be.

But honestly, shut up.

Too much drama, period.

[Kai]

My thread was... a flame thread.


It's how I express myself. :cool:

[Target Practice]

My thread was... a flame thread.


It's how I express myself. :cool:


Kai, if you want, you can express yourself in FC, where we don't descriminate. That's what it's there for. Nobody judging what is right or wrong, nobody underminging anybody else. And you can curse, which is awesome.

Fruitcat--It's a good thing.

[ScatterPlot]

How about a Phil Pill? Come on Phil...you were around in the 70's, I know ya got some some place:)

**Trying to lighten the mood**
CRAP you beat me to the Phil joke :D

[BobTheCow]

Fruitcat--It's a good thing.My sig <3's you.

[GT]

My thread was... a flame thread.


It's how I express myself. :cool:


you're a flamer? ;) ;) ;) :rofl: :dance:

[Kai]

you're a flamer? ;) ;) ;) :rofl: :dance:


Yes. Totally gay, and homosexual, and whatnot.

[Big'n slo]

Yes. Totally gay, and homosexual, and whatnot.

Quoted for truth







:p

[Target Practice]

My sig <3's you.

I'm honored.

[magman007]

OK, intentions of this thread have gone awry. People have missinterpreted my post. First off, let me clear the air and say that Markm is not a new mod by any means, he has been around for atleast a year, if not more.

The idea of this post, was for the longstanding members to voice their opinions, possibly offer some constructive criticism, and to show how we feel the forums need to be run slightly.

there are some changes that need to be made, and i agree, but really, attacking longstanding members, who arent acting up in any way, is just wrong. Joeyd case and point.

[Bulldog]

The idea of this post, was for the longstanding members to voice their opinions, possibly offer some constructive criticism, and to show how we feel the forums need to be run slightly.
I don't think they really care, but for what it's worth I would like to see them less focused on cursing, and more so on getting rid of jerks. But's it really irrelevant.

[cphilip]

...but really, attacking longstanding members, who arent acting up in any way, is just wrong. Joeyd case and point.

Joey D was acting up. He got caught and punished for it. It's not an attack. You can repeat it as long as you like and it will still not be so. Joey D as a "long standing member" knows the rules well enough and has been disiplined for that same violation before.

So... your point is not taken in the way you intended it because its an invalid point. I doubt you want to try and stand on that as your logic and reasoning. I seriously doubt it.

[cphilip]

I don't think they really care, but for what it's worth I would like to see them less focused on cursing, and more so on getting rid of jerks. But's it really irrelevant.

I'd like to see people not curse and not be jerks.... And I would like for people to man up and accept responsibility for thier actions. Not try and hide behind and blame rules and rules keepers for thier mistakes.

Thats how its supposed to be in the real world. Would be nice... if you all want to consider this so serious and "real world" then lets act like it.

[Bulldog]

I'd like to see people not curse and not be jerks.... And I would like for people to man up and accept responsibility for thier actions. Not try and hide behind and blame rules and rules keepers for thier mistakes.

Thats how its supposed to be in the real world. Would be nice... if you all want to consider this so serious and "real world" then lets act like it.

I hear ya, me too. The reason they are blaming the rule keepers in this instance is that they are getting mixed signals. That's all, I'm sure you guys will work it out.

And btw, in the real world, people are always blaming the "rule keepers" for their actions. The man is keepn' them down. Comes with the job. :D ;)

:cheers:

[cphilip]

I hear ya, me too. The reason they are blaming the rule keepers in this instance is that they are getting mixed signals. That's all, I'm sure you guys will work it out.

And btw, in the real world, people are always blaming the "rule keepers" for their actions. The man is keepn' them down. Comes with the job. :D ;)

:cheers:

In the real world the claim "everyone else was doing it and didn't get caugh so why me?" ... doesn't get ya anywhere either. It's hardly a mixed signal. It's a matter of getting caught. Don't want to? Don't do it.

And in Joey D's case he knows very VERY well not to tempt fate. He certainly should anyway. For some reason he is being portrayed as some kinda Saint. Trust me... its hardly the case. Perhaps he doesn't realy want his past compliance history raked out again so... even though some of you seem to want to put him up on a pedistal... that I can knock him right off of... I chose not to as it's all in the past. Or at least I would think HE would want to let it lie. Don't even make me open up that can a worms but I will if I have too. People need to consider the source... ask yourself if what your hearing is coming from a credible trustworthy person with no personal reason to misslead you.

[magman007]

Phil, i dont know why you are getting upset. I personally dont have a problem with any of the other mods, and i think we are all cool with eachother, its just mark needs to calm down.


ALso, Joe is in no way being put on some sort of pedestal, the bannishment for the word, in my mind was out of line, that should have diserved a warning, none of us know that the letter f and ing combined was a bannable offence.



All i am saying, is that many members are havin a problem with the way mark has been handeling things. how about a warning or 2, or make a list black and white of things that are and are not tollerated, words included.


If this is the way AO has to be, then atleast make it more user friendly. let us know exactly what we can and cannot do.

Im sorry you seem so aggrivated phil, this was not the reason for this post.

[Lohman446]

Phil, i dont know why you are getting upset. I personally dont have a problem with any of the other mods, and i think we are all cool with eachother, its just mark needs to calm down.


ALso, Joe is in no way being put on some sort of pedestal, the bannishment for the word, in my mind was out of line, that should have diserved a warning, none of us know that the letter f and ing combined was a bannable offence.



All i am saying, is that many members are havin a problem with the way mark has been handeling things. how about a warning or 2, or make a list black and white of things that are and are not tollerated, words included.


If this is the way AO has to be, then atleast make it more user friendly. let us know exactly what we can and cannot do.

Im sorry you seem so aggrivated phil, this was not the reason for this post.

Look, Im not a mod and Im already sick of the whining. There was a clear warning issued to everyone at once - evasion of the cuss filter and substitution of words is bannable. And the example used is a straigth substitution for one of the words sorted out by the filter. No, I don't beleive it was worth banning someone over, Im not a mod. Someone was banned over it - the lesson is learned.. LET IT GO and move on.

[cphilip]

When you have been banned multiple times.... some of them for the very same offense... and something that you should know better than to take a chance on because your technicaly eligible for a permanent ban already... your have had all the warnings you need.

Now if it was you Magman007 it might be different. Mark has access to the ban histories. He can tell if its someone who has demonstrated a repeated history of disregard for the rules. He can use that in his judgement of wether or not to cut someone some slack or not. He chose not to. I can't say what I might have done but it would and is justified in this case. Thats what I am saying.

Let me tell you an old Unka Phil story. Bear with me! :eek:

I had a friend. His Dad was taking care of the Grandkids one day. He as like in his 80's at the time. The Kids became a bit unrully. They were jumping on the bed. Grandpa says "Quit jumping on the bed". They stop for a few minutes. Then begin jumping on the bed again. Grandpa takes out his strop and goes in there and gives em each a swat! They immediately stop and do not dare do it again.

Soon as Mom comes home.... they go running to mom screaming "mommy mommy, grandpa hit us and didn't even give us three warnings!"

Grandpa says... "what the heck do you need three warning for. I told you once... you didn't listen... end of story".

This is a true story. I was there. I laughed my behind off when those kids complained they expected three warnings before they were going to comply. I think they learned a valuable lesson.

Where did we go wrong making everyone think that in life everyone gets three warnings? Who says? And I am certian the kids had gotten in trouble for jumping on the bed before in thier lives. How many warnings had they already had? Life ain't always "three warnings" in order to do something right. And sometimes prior warnings count... after all... your supposed to get warnings to teach you something hopefully and give you a chance. Punishment may come at any time... without warnings.. when you have demonstrated that warnings ain't working.

[magman007]

lohman, how wrong you are. maybe you havnt been around long enough to know how ao once was, or to notice that it has been on a constant downslope since oh... mid '02

the fact is, that we have been using the substituted word for a while now, and we havnt gotten introuble for it, until one day...


the Dvd thing as well, needs to be addressed.


this whole topic is already making prominent(or once prominent) members disgusted and leaving.


id like us to allget along, but it will take coping on many sides for this to happen.


Some people need to change, attitudes need to change, we all want to get back to the happy AO we once knew, so lets do it.

[cphilip]

Some people need to change, attitudes need to change, we all want to get back to the happy AO we once knew, so lets do it.

We have had the same rules ever since I have been here. Same rules we all swore to obey. Carefull who you side up with and take a break if you need to. Nothing stays the same. Not much anyone can do about that. Thats really not anything to do with rules. It has to do with membership and your own personal interests. They change. Nothing can stay the same I hate to say...

[behemoth]

Im Back.

I agree, it seemes like he was on a little powertrip... :rolleyes:

[1stdeadeye]

Pretty http://sprayingmango.com/greddy.gif if I may say so myself.


Well he is English you know! :wow: ;)

What is the best thing you can say about him? He is not French!!!!! :p

[1stdeadeye]

Yes. Totally gay, and homosexual, and whatnot.


Is that why you and Jonneh get along so well? ;)

[Lohman446]

lohman, how wrong you are. maybe you havnt been around long enough to know how ao once was, or to notice that it has been on a constant downslope since oh... mid '02

the fact is, that we have been using the substituted word for a while now, and we havnt gotten introuble for it, until one day...


the Dvd thing as well, needs to be addressed.


this whole topic is already making prominent(or once prominent) members disgusted and leaving.


id like us to allget along, but it will take coping on many sides for this to happen.


Some people need to change, attitudes need to change, we all want to get back to the happy AO we once knew, so lets do it.

I'm wrong? There is a word used, it may have been used for some time. At the risk of a ban for demonstrating in normal every day speech I use the word "effin" when I just don't feel like spelling out the rest. It is direct subsitituion and meant to bring to mind the word not used.

Someone was banned for it... you know better now. Now your whining about it... bringing it up and discussing was not whining.. but after awhile it becomes whining. Am I wrong?

Everything done was in violation of the rules - chances are from what Phil has said that Joey has been warned, and banned before and well... he continued to push. Now Phil has discussed it, Joey is back, the ban is over, everyone understands that that term is bannable - Get over it, move on.

[Bulldog]

In the real world the claim "everyone else was doing it and didn't get caugh so why me?" ... doesn't get ya anywhere either. It's hardly a mixed signal. It's a matter of getting caught. Don't want to? Don't do it.

I wasn't saying that it should or does work, merely responding to your post.

The mixed signal that I'm seeing is that what Joey said = ban....yet BS or fricken' is ok. Most people would see those phrases on the same level.

The prior history I know nothing about, so I can't comment on that. If it's bad enough in this case that it's the straw that broke the camels back, so be it. It still seems weak, but you have access to more information than most of us, so I'll take your word for it.

[Echo419]

Yah my most recent ban was for typing 4 astericks WITH spaces in between them, instead of saying the "S" word in a quoute from a movie... They new i didnt cus. 3 days

[Echo419]

And also one more thing, banning your senior members, and ur regular members with 1k + posts, isn't helping AO bieng a better place... cuz believe me.. the PBN imigrants arent the people keeping this place alive

[CasingBill]

I think this thread is getting off point. I think most AO users feel like MarkM is on a powertrip. I know in the past I have been personally reprimanded and read about others who were banned or had a thread or post deleted and after my initial reaction I realized that the mods were prolly correct for doing so. But MarkM is out of hand. I don't remember any mods getting this much of a reaction before. I'm sure MarkM is a nice guy and well intended but maybe his culture just doesn't translate to this board. This is about MarkM in general not specifics.

[Eric Cartman]

Never thought this'd make it to 3 pages :ninja:

I don't think anyone's going to win this argument any time soon, but the different opinions are definitely out there. I'm sure Mark has read this thread. I guess everyone will see whether or not it makes a difference over the next few days.

Andd while we wait, a dancing banana: :dance:

[behemoth]

Yah my most recent ban was for typing 4 astericks WITH spaces in between them, instead of saying the "S" word in a quoute from a movie... They new i didnt cus. 3 days

You i can undertand... but how could you ban such an influential member such as myself?

[cphilip]

Its happened to every mod at some point or another. Almost always its a banned user feels somehow wronged.

But in the end there is almost always a very weak excuse hiding whats really a personal dislike. Common people, its pretty obvious its a personal thing not a rules thing. You can't stand being corrected by someone new is what it is. And mostly it's members recruited by the violator who has spent time trying to rally people to his cause. And often his story lacks certain very important facts in it. And its true in this case. Most of the facts about this and several other issues brought up in this thread were misrepresented by the complainer. I have discredited and or corrected most of those already. I find many times these witch hunts kill there own credibility because the "tellers" leave out, very conveniently, a lot of the pertinent details.


Many times its the longer term member that already knows better gets less warnings. This is most true of a member that has a history of the very same error. Because he should know better.

[cphilip]

You i can undertand... but how could you ban such an influential member such as myself?


I rest my case.... ;)

[behemoth]

I rest my case.... ;)

i STILL think that my ban was injust. -- If you or any other mod saw it, i DOUBT it would have resulted in a 3day...

[cphilip]

i STILL think that my ban was injust. -- If you or any other mod saw it, i DOUBT it would have resulted in a 3day...


Of course you do!

Yea good thing I didn't... I woulda prolly made it 5 days.... :p

[Rooster]

Yeah, but a limey as a mod? We fought a couple wars to make sure they didn't have any power over us.

[CasingBill]

Yeah, but a limey as a mod? We fought a couple wars to make sure they didn't have any power over us.


:shooting:

:headbang:

[cphilip]

Yeah, but a limey as a mod? We fought a couple wars to make sure they didn't have any power over us.

Yea and then spent over two years negotiating with them the terms of settlement which secured our lasting ties with them settling the war on good terms with them... first time ever in any two countries at war conclusion..... And then later they seem to be the only ones backing us up when we need them.... Yea.... why that! :wow:

[Albinonewt]

You don't have any more rights to that thread than we do. You posted it publicly... it's public information after that. If you don't want something to become public domain... don't post it in the first place... So don't get all fresh with me over something you posted you decided was not fit to remain. Think before you do it. After that...well... sorry... but its not yours anymore. Where did you get the idea it was. We might "allow" you to retract. But we don't have to. If the retraction hides something we feel people should know.... that you posted... your fair game. Sorry. But consequences are always possible. By the way. I moved that thread to the graveyard. So no one can see it now. So its dead. But its preserved. Not for the public. So thats the least I can do for all of you.


Funny, nobody saw it that way when Tyger deleted the thread he threatened to kill me in....

[lord1234]

When you have been banned multiple times.... some of them for the very same offense... and something that you should know better than to take a chance on because your technicaly eligible for a permanent ban already... your have had all the warnings you need.

Now if it was you Magman007 it might be different. Mark has access to the ban histories. He can tell if its someone who has demonstrated a repeated history of disregard for the rules. He can use that in his judgement of wether or not to cut someone some slack or not. He chose not to. I can't say what I might have done but it would and is justified in this case. Thats what I am saying.

Let me tell you an old Unka Phil story. Bear with me! :eek:

I had a friend. His Dad was taking care of the Grandkids one day. He as like in his 80's at the time. The Kids became a bit unrully. They were jumping on the bed. Grandpa says "Quit jumping on the bed". They stop for a few minutes. Then begin jumping on the bed again. Grandpa takes out his strop and goes in there and gives em each a swat! They immediately stop and do not dare do it again.

Soon as Mom comes home.... they go running to mom screaming "mommy mommy, grandpa hit us and didn't even give us three warnings!"

Grandpa says... "what the heck do you need three warning for. I told you once... you didn't listen... end of story".

This is a true story. I was there. I laughed my behind off when those kids complained they expected three warnings before they were going to comply. I think they learned a valuable lesson.

Where did we go wrong making everyone think that in life everyone gets three warnings? Who says? And I am certian the kids had gotten in trouble for jumping on the bed before in thier lives. How many warnings had they already had? Life ain't always "three warnings" in order to do something right. And sometimes prior warnings count... after all... your supposed to get warnings to teach you something hopefully and give you a chance. Punishment may come at any time... without warnings.. when you have demonstrated that warnings ain't working.

This was the best story ever. If i was their dad I would have given them one myself for talking back to their grandpa.

[magman007]

phil, just for the refference, i hadnt known of any past rule incursions with joe, and he did not put me up to this. as an upright citizen of ao, i felt something needed to be said. this isnt a Dirtybunny argument or a noskillz like we have seen in the past.

I felt something needed to be said, and people needed to have their views expressed. Joe was just an example, and not the main focal point

[SpecialBlend2786]

I guess I now know how the rest of the world feels about george bush.


ouch....

[RobAGD]

Wow, Marks Hate Threat made it 3 pages, that completly crushed mine 1.5 page hate thread.

Wow, a mod/admin hated more than me :D

MarkM you have arivied ! Now lets see if you get hate mail like I did :rolleyes:

I have afewthings I would like to add guys :

For many of you that complain about the change in AO since mid 02, that comes a lot from the users not the mods. Early on with the forum MOST of the people posting behaved themselves and didnt push the rules.Then we started getting many many more users and we started to have to crack down on the rules issues. We continue to have to swing a way heavier hammer than we would like because people just cant seem to get thier crap right and just be civil or use some comon sence.

If you all dont want us to wield the hammer liek we do then get on the people that dont get it, PM them about what they are doing, tell them its not acceptable. In the lastfew months I have seen a big change in several of teh older members that seem to want to rantand carry one a push thing justtoo see how far we will bend before we start hammering them. It will happen, If its not Phil or Me it will be someone guys. Get a grip and get it together . Ao use to pretty much govern itself, those were the good old days and "I" would love to see those days back. I would also like tosee a lot less of the posted non sence and post whoring.

Just like Sig images use to be cool and people kept them in check and then all hell broke loose and we had to make rules to govern them. We have to react to whats done here, thats a bit of teh nature of what we do. mark reads what we post up about rules and stuff in our forum, he acts on the rule, a bit harsh , maybe but in the letter of teh rules he is right for the most part. power tripping I say Nay. He has onlyreally had to deal with people in one forum and thatwas very black and white issues in the forum. He did a good job at that and we asked him to expand to teh rest of teh board as Miscue, myself and blackvcg hardly get very deep in the forums liek we use to. Most of what I do is in the back ground unless someone brings up a problem in chat.


For you old timers just remember : in the early months/years I had to carry a very big club and use it a lot and it got almost every one in line. We have peroids where we lag a bit and then wherewe are more active, go withthe flow.

Anyway I have to get my paper work done and fix my weekending paperwork. What a joy

-Robert

[Muzikman]

Ya know, the whining is getting just as annoying as the post whoring.

It's a damn online forum. If you get banned, take it as a sign you need to get out and drink more beer. If you don't like the rules, take it as a sign you need to get out and and see the real world. If you just don't want to follow the rules, take it as a sign that you need a night or two with a woman. And if you can not understand the rules, take it as a sign that you need to go back to elementary school.

Edit: And on that note, I pushed the hate to 4 pages;)

[Creative Mayhem]

Ya know, the whining is getting just as annoying as the post whoring.

It's a damn online forum. If you get banned, take it as a sign you need to get out and drink more beer. If you don't like the rules, take it as a sign you need to get out and and see the real world. If you just don't want to follow the rules, take it as a sign that you need a night or two with a woman. And if you can not understand the rules, take it as a sign that you need to go back to elementary school.

Edit: And on that note, I pushed the hate to 4 pages;)

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA :clap:

[Lohman446]

Ya know, the whining is getting just as annoying as the post whoring.

It's a damn online forum. If you get banned, take it as a sign you need to get out and drink more beer. If you don't like the rules, take it as a sign you need to get out and and see the real world. If you just don't want to follow the rules, take it as a sign that you need a night or two with a woman. And if you can not understand the rules, take it as a sign that you need to go back to elementary school.

Edit: And on that note, I pushed the hate to 4 pages;)

I agreed with you on page 3, just can't quit reading. As for this argument that "I'm a senior member, the rules don't apply to me" :rofl: Unless your AGD or Zupe I don't give a :cuss: who you are - the rules apply to you. A senior mature member who violated a rule should be mature enough to look back, figure out the mistake it was, and keep in mind I never said it was anything but a mistake, apologize to the moderator who had to take action because of YOUR error, and GET OVER IT.

As for the "I'm a senior member and I don't like it and if it happens like this I'm going to leave" :cry: . Bye... contrary to what you may think this is an online community of reasonable size, there are not that many people that care if you post or not. The moderators have a hard job - a lot of what they do are based on judgement calls. The fact of the matter is Joey did violate the rules (and from what Phil has said should have known better from past violations). It was a mistake on his part, I'll bet he's learned. I don't go on PBN because of the whining, powertripping kids - here I'm getting "I'm a senior member, I have more rights than anyone else" :rolleyes: Sorry... having to remind people your a senior member, and then giving the impression that your presence on the board is some great thing... well it surely doesnt gain you respect.

[Pickle]

What he said
:clap:
:clap:
:clap:

[Echo419]

You i can undertand... but how could you ban such an influential member such as myself?
owned....

::edit:: :p Ok seriously, I think MarkM or any other mod needs to ban everyone who whined in this thread including myself. Stop doubting AO, you know girls PMS? Well I think the AO community is PMSing right now b/c we just lost our president... So just everyone go buy the girl some chocolate and have a happy holiday
http://www.paintcreek.org/interact/ecard/cards/sad_face2.gif

[p u r e e v i l]

MarkM PMed me the other day asking me to remove my sig. I did so willingly but must admit that at first I was a bit frustrated at having to do so. I didn't see the content as offending, but everyone does have their own opinion, and people had obviously complained about it.
Marks PM was rather polite and I had no objections (other then the ones in my head telling me to protest and keep it up...There's a little rebel in all of us.) I guess he could have been over reacting in someway, but it wasn't like he had just removed my sig. Instead, he asked me nicely to remove it. I'm not sticking up for anyone...then again, I just got back in the loop of things.


PuReEviL

[cphilip]

Funny, nobody saw it that way when Tyger deleted the thread he threatened to kill me in....

That was the old software Vbulletin version. We truely did not have a way to retrieve them then... or we would have.

[1stdeadeye]

Funny, nobody saw it that way when Tyger deleted the thread he threatened to kill me in....


Zing! :headbang:

[beam]

I don't know MarkM well enough to say that he is power tripping, but I do know that when I read that original thread, I was suprised that joey got a ban from using effing.

And effing has been used a lot since then in discussing this incident.

For me, I don't swear. I use the work heck and freaking. So effing has as much conotation to it as freaking.

If I ever get banned for circumventing the cuss filter, that will be the day I would say the mods are over the top. Cause I don't swear.

Also, I find it funny/ironic that one can say this:

Google is :cuss: genius.

But not:

Google is effing genius.

You know that the code for that little smiley is : cuss : hmmm....interesting that that can be used but not ****. The little dude himself is spewing out stuff that should result in his ban.

I move to ban the :cuss: guy for circumventing the cuss filter in a habitual way. Has he been warned? :D

[Pickle]

Jeeeeese! Semantics.

Here's an idea......mods remove the :cuss: as an icon and end the stupid debate. :shooting: :tard:

[beam]

Jeeeeese! Semantics.

Here's an idea......mods remove the :cuss: as an icon and end the stupid debate. :shooting: :tard:


That's not what the debate is about. That was comic relief.


SWOOSH!
Did you see that?
Huh? What?
That thing, it just flew over your head!
What thing? Dude what was it, a ufo?
Nah man, a joke....you totally missed it.

[logamus]

That was the old software Vbulletin version. We truely did not have a way to retrieve them then... or we would have.
didnt you say if you post something and it activates the filter, ie lots of *, then go back and edit it? so if mango would have just "edited" the "offensive" parts of his post it would have been allowed? why is it allowed to edit ones post but not to delete it? or does that only apply to "offensive" language?

[Pickle]

That's not what the debate is about. That was comic relief.


SWOOSH!
Did you see that?
Huh? What?
That thing, it just flew over your head!
What thing? Dude what was it, a ufo?
Nah man, a joke....you totally missed it.

I do understand comic relief and yours was admirable. :clap: However, this is not the first time that people have complained about the cuss icon irony. :rolleyes: You weren't the first (sarcastic or not) and I doubt you will be the last.

[Beemer]

Markm needs to calm down

No he doesnt............

Keep up the good work Mark youre doing a fine job. :clap: Oh ya You to cphilip and ALL the other Mods

Everybody else go read CPhils posts, they say it all. :cheers: This aint no Chinese DownHill. Follow the RULES and get over it. I cant see why it is so hard for everyone to understand

[beam]

I do understand comic relief and yours was admirable. :clap: However, this is not the first time that people have complained about the cuss icon irony. :rolleyes: You weren't the first (sarcastic or not) and I doubt you will be the last.


Ah, I see. I've been away for a while. I'm just getting back into being active on the boards after being away for most of this year. That's my excuse anyway, what's yours. j/k! :D

[Muzikman]

didnt you say if you post something and it activates the filter, ie lots of *, then go back and edit it? so if mango would have just "edited" the "offensive" parts of his post it would have been allowed? why is it allowed to edit ones post but not to delete it? or does that only apply to "offensive" language?

Keep reading, you are missing the point. It wasn't that Mago was not allowed to delete the thread, but Mark wanted to archive the thread for his and other mod reasons. He could not do this without restoring the thread and then moving it. Once it was moved it would be out of the publics eye, but Mango kept re-deleting it before Mark could move it. Mango thought that Mark was trying to restore the thread against his wishes, but that was not the case.

[cphilip]

Keep reading, you are missing the point. It wasn't that Mago was not allowed to delete the thread, but Mark wanted to archive the thread for his and other mod reasons. He could not do this without restoring the thread and then moving it. Once it was moved it would be out of the publics eye, but Mango kept re-deleting it before Mark could move it. Mango thought that Mark was trying to restore the thread against his wishes, but that was not the case.

Exactly! They had a chinese fire drill going and niether of them realized it... at the time. Rather odd thing really. But at some point anything is going to happen. Murphy's law strikes again.

In the old bulletin board software, when you deleted it, we could not retrieve it. Thats what we would have done had we had this new software when Albino was threatened. We could have saved it. But we could not back then.

And yes. Mango could have edited the thread and left it...or deleted it. His choice.

But...Now we can move them and do stuff with them if we want with this version of Vbulliten. And we ask Mods to archive any post they have made an "intervention" on if it ends up closed or deleted (no matter who deletes it) so the rest of us can see it later if there is a beef about it. So thats what Mark was trying to do with it. He clearly knew Mango did not want it displayed anymore and had no problem with that. He was going to honor that. But he could never get done with all his actions to bo both things (open and then move) because Mango kept re-deleting it. In the mistaken impression that Mark was just trying to restore it to view. And it's understandable Mango might think that, since Mango did not know that we have to re-open/reactivate the thread before we can move it. So it does not suprise that he would think that. So it was just really an unfortunate series of moves by each of them at the same short period of time that caused the misunderstanding.

[xmetal2001]

Its a shame that phil has had to explain this so many times! I don't see what the trouble is :confused:


Although I must admit, AO Drama makes for a good read :ninja:

[SpecialBlend2786]

Although I must admit, AO Drama makes for a good read :ninja:

it really does

[logamus]

Exactly! They had a chinese fire drill going and niether of them realized it... at the time. Rather odd thing really. But at some point anything is going to happen. Murphy's law strikes again.

In the old bulletin board software, when you deleted it, we could not retrieve it. Thats what we would have done had we had this new software when Albino was threatened. We could have saved it. But we could not back then.

And yes. Mango could have edited the thread and left it...or deleted it. His choice.

But...Now we can move them and do stuff with them if we want with this version of Vbulliten. And we ask Mods to archive any post they have made an "intervention" on if it ends up closed or deleted (no matter who deletes it) so the rest of us can see it later if there is a beef about it. So thats what Mark was trying to do with it. He clearly knew Mango did not want it displayed anymore and had no problem with that. He was going to honor that. But he could never get done with all his actions to bo both things (open and then move) because Mango kept re-deleting it. In the mistaken impression that Mark was just trying to restore it to view. And it's understandable Mango might think that, since Mango did not know that we have to re-open/reactivate the thread before we can move it. So it does not suprise that he would think that. So it was just really an unfortunate series of moves by each of them at the same short period of time that caused the misunderstanding.
so if mango had just gone back and edited out what he posted and put the word "hello" in its place then nothing would have happened? im just curious if editing out what one posts is a better option than just deleting the thread. i also know there are a few regular posters on the forum that delete their posts on a fairly regular basis, is that practice going to come to an end or is the restoration of deleted posts/threads only applied if there is questionable/offensive material contained in said post/thread?

[Lohman446]

THis is how I understand it

If a moderator takes action on a thread, such as "deleting" it they do not actual delete it - they move it to the graveyard where only moderators can see it. This way if someone whines later that a moderator is on a powertrip the other moderators can see the cause of action - this is new with the new software.

MarkM took action because of Mango's picture (though what action I do not know maybe just a PM). Mango realized what the picture was and tried to delete it as offensive - once the picture was deleted Mark could no longer move it - he had to reopen it to move it - when he reopened it Mango redeleted it before he could move it - Mango thought Mark was trying to force it to be in public view.

I would presume, normally you delete a post noone cares - but if a moderator has/is taking action against it they need to move it to the graveyard in case there is any controversy later.

[cphilip]

THis is how I understand it

If a moderator takes action on a thread, such as "deleting" it they do not actual delete it - they move it to the graveyard where only moderators can see it. This way if someone whines later that a moderator is on a powertrip the other moderators can see the cause of action - this is new with the new software.

MarkM took action because of Mango's picture (though what action I do not know maybe just a PM). Mango realized what the picture was and tried to delete it as offensive - once the picture was deleted Mark could no longer move it - he had to reopen it to move it - when he reopened it Mango redeleted it before he could move it - Mango thought Mark was trying to force it to be in public view.

I would presume, normally you delete a post noone cares - but if a moderator has/is taking action against it they need to move it to the graveyard in case there is any controversy later.


Pretty good explanation but with one clarification... It was not the Picture but the entire thread that was deleted and so had to be opened to be moved.

I think, mark contacted Mango in PM's about the particular picture asking him to remove just that only and telling him why. It was because of several peoples complaints that we sort of agreed with. Although not strongly enough to just delete it ourselves at first. So Mark chose to ask Mango if he would agree and delete it. Then Mark finaly deleted the picture. Then Mango chose to delete the entire thread not just the picture. I think thats sort of how it went down. As best I can recall.

And no... we don't intend to undo any deleted threads that there are no Moderator actions on. Many people just delete threads that got off topic or maybe they think better about or don't need anymore. If there is no reason to move it and keep it we will not bother with those.

This thread in question here was only intended to be open for a moment so that the software would give the option to move it.

Anyway. Thats enough on this subject. The issue is now understood so no need to fan any more flame on this one. Closing.