What it would take to make a mag my primary gun again

[Lohman446]

Before I get slaughtered by everyone on this board - I shot mags for a long time and have experienced the "joy" of level ten. I have had an E-mag with an awesome trigger. I am discussing a speedball marker, for a "toy" or woodsball (seperate) a modified warp feed - like the GEN 2 unreleased warp would be cool.


Battery integrated to trigger frame - standard 9V like many other high end guns are capable of using.

A good eye system - if you choose to face it or not LX is the COPS of AGD.

The ability to shoot below 800PSI in the tank.

No statement by the manufacturer about chrono procedures or indication that a 20FPS variation was acceptable.

Better reliability. My old classic mags were great markers as far as reliability, perhaps the best I have had in a long time. I never seemed to have a happy X-valve/LX setup. I worked on my E-mag much more than I work on my Shockers.

I still like the profile (perhaps why I shoot Shockers).

Tournament legal out of the box.

Competetive price - considering they are not the "in" thing you're likely going to have to be better priced than the Shockers.

I really don't care about built in mechanical mode.

[TheTramp]

I'm not sure if you are just complaining about mags or are really looking for a gun you can get tomorrow.

The only thing that fits some of your "requirments" is a devil mag. Eyes, no battery pack, etc.

Good luck with the "statement from the mgf" and the L10 is certenly no COPS. :rolleyes:

[Lohman446]

Its not so much as a complaint as much as a justification of why I don't shoot a mag at this point. I know that mags are a reasonably competetive marker. I realize they have there strong points. It may sound like complaining, it really isn't. Whether or not AGD produces anything like this, well I really dont care. Its more of a for information purposes post, a get to think post.

Edit: Let me clarify the "Cops" statement - COPS WDP argued was so great that it was better than eyes, and seemed to hold away from eyes for it. Its what I picture AGD doing... holding tight to LX saying eyes are not needed with it. I realize the X-mag was an exception but those were barely a production marker, more of a custom concept, complete with the price to match.

[teufelhunden]

Agree with Lohman. While the E-Mag does have some strong points, it's still weak compared to its competitors. Like, for instance, the shootup that seems to be acceptable and its inability to go deep into the tank. And while LX is great at stopping chops, it still requires a cycle of the gun which disallows you from putting paint downfield if your next trigger pull is immediate; with eyes, it just won't allow it to go unless the paint is there, it doesn't have to find out the hard way.

I actually think that as.. bad as the battery pack is, it's necessary for the balance of the marker, E-Mags are really the only 'Mags that ever felt well balanced.

[tyrion2323]

I agree with Lohman and Teuf - the 'mag cannot remain in its current form and remain a competitor. Compared with some of the super-markers such as the Intimidator, Matrix, Cyborg, Shocker, Viking, etc, the E-Mag and X-Mag pale for obvious reasons:

- Poor efficiency
- No Eye System
- Limited Air Use (cannot go below 900psi effectively)
- Bulky feel
- Ugly Valve
- Short-Stroking

In order to compete, AGD will have to remedy all of these problems. The X-Mag was a step in the right direction, but it has retained too many of the poor qualities that have helped make 'mags obselete.

I hate to say it folks, but hype is not the reason that the 'mag has become obselete. It's a tired, old design which needs to be heavily updated for today's paintball scene.

[phantomhitman]

O NOSS!!!111111 do not talk junk about mags on ao ;)
(as once said by the leet pbn people here)

i love mags, and i will always own one. but i will say they are obsolete. i have a devilmag (kind of), i have shot e and x mags, and i still own a mech minimag. my only gripe now is the need for the air line to run so far of the side of the gun down to the tank. you can have work arounds for it such as gas thru grips and hardlines, but that doesnt solve the fact that it is still there. yes, i do like my guns reliable and pretty!! the operating pressure for the level10 i can gripe about but that is ok to me, i just make sure my tank stays full.

lets see what the future of agd holds.......

[lord1234]

the devil mag fits all of your requirements:)

[xXHavokXx]

Exactly what I was thinking. I really wanted the hair trigger because it would be light , fast, easy to maintain, and sexy.

For an electronic mag to be what I want it would have to be:

Fast - CPS and BPS are very different. I want to spray death like my angels.
Light - Lighter guns feel better, dumbells are for weight training not PB guns
Dual Detents - I want to use my halo to maximize part one.
Dual Eyes - They work and it is proven.
Shapely - Not bulky like the battery pack
Recoiless - Like DM4's and Angel Fly's

I still believe the mag is the second best made gun on the market (I have to say WDP does better to justify to myself the amount of money spent on angels) but evolution does have to occur to keep it competative. Look at domestic cars, they are starting to look like imports, why? Because imports were killing them in sales.

[adlar]

The Devil Mag is a great refinement of electronic grips for mags, but it still does not solve some of the core 'Mag issues with shoot up, and being able to reach deep into the tank. Frankly, I think even if the shootup were corrected it would still take a lot of convincing for fields/refs to accept that the issue had been resolved. I had a lot of trouble convincing local fields about tank hydro regs when those changed. In a lot of ways AGD and it's partners would have to market a design that seemed brand new to the masses, just to overcome the Mag's history.

[awwdavy]

The inability to shoot under 900 psi is the biggest problem i have with mags. The field I play at often fills only to 2000 or less psi (its 5 bucks admission with all day air if you were wondering why i even go there) and i can sometimes cannot even play a game with the air provided.

[Lord_Whoopass]

Two Words... DEVIL MAG... I love mine...

However I would love to see Warp Slugs and a new board for the Warp feed come out... By a new board I mean one that comes with an On/off switch and 12v mod standard... and with a better way to keep the battery wires sodered to the board... lol had my mag go down in a tourny cuz the battery connector came off my warp board... If you could make the new board a drop in kit that you could purchase at the AGD online store, I am sure alot of people who own Warps would purchase one... plus prolly people would buy new warps with the new board...

[LittlePaintballBoy]

A genie in a bottle.

[usmc8892]

Once I almost bought an Impulse, then a shocker, and then, and I was VERY tempted, a 2005 Angel Speed...but I ended up with 4 'Mags instead!

[Evil1]

I know where your coming from Lohman. I had classic mags for years before I had any RT valves or emags. The classics required little to no maintenance for insane amounts of time. A few drops of oil and you were good to go. When I got back into paintball 2.5 years ago after a 2 year break, The first gun I bought was a MM. I was in love all over again. I loved the gun and will keep it forever. After playing more , I caught wind of the Lvl 10 kit. The level 10 proved to be a nightmare most of the time. It would leak no matter what carrier, shim setup I used and spent many nights working on my level 10 until the sun was almost up again. When I would get the level 10 to work good, It would only be like that for a short period of time. They were just to finicky for my liking. It felt like the old days clipping springs to get things to function properly. When I picked up my first emag, I put an xvalve into it right away. I put the stock emag valve into my MM with a level 7 bolt. When the LX was combined w/ an xvalve, it was a whole new dimension. If one was working the other wasn't. It drove me nuts. I put up with the frequent maintenance for a while until I started seeing all of the other people playing instead of working on their guns. I eventually stopped trying with the LX and swapped out to L7 with no problems. Another thing that was weird was that my xvalve had to be SATURATED with oil to get it to work properly. I ended up using my mech MM more than my upped emag due to problems. I think in a way the emag was over engineered in various areas. This made no room for error. No other popular gun ever seemed to have as many problems and require as much maintenance as my emags.

[trains are bad]

odd. My LX has not changed since I dropped a carrier size after break in. That was like a year ago. It doesn't quite bounce off of really brittle paint though.

However I have never been happy with the ult, in fact I have a thread about it in the WS right now.

I agree somewhat with the topic starter which is why I built my own 'e-mag' without the huge battery and stuff.

I do belive AGD moved too slowly. They should have, at a minimum, came out with an emag that uses ULT technology to eliminate the battery pack. But then there was the smart parts issue.

The operating pressure of the mag will never improve without a complete design overhaul. IMO ICD made the next generation automag with the freestyle. The constant opposing force of the bolt spring, is dead reliable, cheap, and inefficient.


I still love my mag for feel, ergonomics, and low profile. I don't care about the efficiency (much).

[Lohman446]

It would only take paying my field fees :D Cuz my mech mag is my main marker. Soon to be a DevilMag :mad:

I dont cry about these trivial things :cry: ...they are only tears of joy when those foos with their electros get beat my a mech mag :shooting:

The marker doesnt make the player...skills do.


And that attitude, is why mags are stuck... Mags are great markers and for a mechanical I think it would be hard pressed to be beat. But this whole "the marker doesn't make the player" attitude is saying that the marker is competetive. A legal mag is not competetive with the super markers of today. Two players of equal skills - the one with the better marker is going to come out on top. Yeh, skill is important, but I look for whatever edge I can get. One of the best players I know shoots a mechanical mag, is it the marker that beats me... not a chance.

[Lohman446]

Fine Rogue.. Marker has nothing to do with it :rolleyes: you do play with a pump right? - the 20 foot per second inconsistency taht seems to go with the X-valve is actually my biggest complaint about it - followed by the problematic nature of mine. I'd still own one, a great marker for its use.

When AGD as a company realizes that its not just hype anymore - there are markers that are better than the mag out there - they require less maintenance, are more consistent, will fire faster, have a better anti-chop system, can shoot further into the tank, and cost about the same (these are all opinions based on my use of different markers). Anyways, once AGD realizes that its not just hype we will get a better marker, maybe. This holding onto "the mag is as good as any marker out there" - this is true for some players - but it becomes less and less true for more and more players the more markers advance.

Yes, skill is important, more important than marker, but marker does mean something...

[hitech]

A legal mag is not competetive with the super markers of today.

It is if those "super" markers are also legal, semi-auto markers.

[Lohman446]

It is if those "super" markers are also legal, semi-auto markers.

An E-mag, with eyes, and with the ability to shoot lower in the tank maybe - the rest of what I see is astetic. My e-mag was a great marker, don't get me wrong

[hitech]

The constant opposing force of the bolt spring, is dead reliable, cheap, and inefficient.


The opposing force of the bolt spring is NOT what makes the 'mag inefficient. What makes it inefficient is that the dump chamber is still open and venting after the ball is gone from the barrel.

[GT]

I think guys are just trying to find a reason to buy what is cool and not what they really want, a mag. The only reason an E/X is "slower" than the current crop is the legal semi software.


for instance, the shootup that seems to be acceptable

Last time I checked most markers running compressed ai have shoot up. THe only company that addresses it is agd. Secondly some markers require a first shot "shoot up" because the bolts are porrly designed or selnoid doesnt have enough voltage to overcome bolt stick.


take home message
We can go back and forth about each gun on the market ahd why it is better than the other. The truth is that none buys a gun based on facts; rather what they value more, unfortanlly at this point in time it is more about BPS, bling, and having the most expensive gear.

[TheTramp]

An E-mag, with eyes, and with the ability to shoot lower in the tank maybe - the rest of what I see is astetic. My e-mag was a great marker, don't get me wrong

I agree. These are the only two changes I'd make to my E-Mag.

Break-beam eyes with the L10 as a back-up and the ability to shoot down to a tank pressure of 400psi or so.

I like the way the PTP battery pack I've got feels and looks.

[hitech]

... with the ability to shoot lower in the tank...

Isn't how many shots per tank the real issue? If you could get 2000 shots on a 68/3000 tank would you care that you couldn't shot the tank lower than 600 (or 800, or what ever)?

[Lohman446]

I think guys are just trying to find a reason to buy what is cool and not what they really want, a mag. The only reason an E/X is "slower" than the current crop is the legal semi software.
.

BS... you want to know what switched me to Shockers. I was in the shop for the third time in teh same day trying to get my level ten soft enough to not break paint, adjusting the rod on the plunger (because I had messed with it ok my fault). Trying to get LX to that point that it would reset, fire, and not break paint. It was about the third week in a row of working on the SOB marker trying to get it just right. I finally threw it back together, called it good enough... I was on the field, broke a ball, looked at the shop owner and told him to order me a Shocker. Why a Shocker? I wanted the profile of a mag, that was my first concern. Why is it still a Shocker and not a Pimp, a Timmy, a Viking - because I'm happy with it. Its about the same size and weight of my Mag - with a better anti-chop system in my experience, it shoots lower into the tank, the battery is in the grip frame. I have rebound available (not a requirment but I did switch to rebound Shockers when it became available). I will tell you that out of the box the quality control on teh Shockers sucked - I had to take them apart and remove metal shavings - one the back plate froze in and took some work to remove. Don't read into this too far, an E/X mag is not even tourney legal out of the box and the trigger is less than good stock. But since then they have been wonderful markers, the triggers are easily adjusted (my E-mag I had to give to BlackVCG to adjust the trigger - great job BTW), maintenance is simple and done once a month or so, and I have very few problems with them.

As for speed - both the E and the Shocker are extremely fast when in legal settings. The thing is the E had a tendency to barrel rise at high rates of fire, the Shocker does not to that degree.

This instant - well anything you say that makes anything better than a mag is just hype knee jerk reaction is costing AGD. Eventually you admit you did not progress as quickly as your competition, borrow some ideas from them, improve them, and make something better - its the evolution of competetition. I would like to have something else, something that is not the "in" marker to have. I don't want to have what everyone else has... I want something different. I would like to see an AGD marker that truly competes

[yakitori]

you just made me feel a lot better GT. I dont have any consistency probs w/ my mag as long as it is decent paint match.

[Lohman446]

Isn't how many shots per tank the real issue? If you could get 2000 shots on a 68/3000 tank would you care that you couldn't shot the tank lower than 600 (or 800, or what ever)?


Good question... I'll get back to you on that one. I could live with the efficiency of them, but its one of those I would always like better.

[GT]

This instant - well anything you say that makes anything better than a mag is just hype knee jerk reaction is costing AGD.


lets be real honest here. If there was any gun, from a spyder to a bling'd out timmy, that was truely better than any gun everyone would be using them, regardless of marker sponsership.

They all shoot @ 300fps, some slower, some faster, and some do it all consistantly. Everything else is just crap we tell ourselves to justify our purchase. I know its hard to swallow considering the kid with the rental m98 has just as good a gun as your $$2k timmy/matrix/borg/viking.

[hitech]

Good question... I'll get back to you on that one. I could live with the efficiency of them, but its one of those I would always like better.

????

I'm missing what you are trying to say. My example of 2000 shots from a 68/3000 tank is extremely good efficiency. I guess I was really asking if you care about performance or do you care about numbers? In other words, why would you care how far down you can shoot the tank if it is the most efficient?

[Lohman446]

????

I'm missing what you are trying to say. My example of 2000 shots from a 68/3000 tank is extremely good efficiency. I guess I was really asking if you care about performance or do you care about numbers? In other words, why would you care how far down you can shoot the tank if it is the most efficient?

If you could get me 2000 shots out of a 68/3K - with 3K being the max number for this example because almost everyone can fill to that, I wouldn't care if I could only shoot down to 1500.

Yes, IM interested in the number too - but if we are discussing the hypothetical ultra-high pressure marker that I think you may be eluding to we're dealing with something revolutionary and my other concerns may be let go

[68magOwner]

It would only take paying my field fees :D Cuz my mech mag is my main marker. Soon to be a DevilMag :mad:

I dont cry about these trivial things :cry: ...they are only tears of joy when those foos with their electros get beat my a mech mag :shooting:

The marker doesnt make the player...skills do.


I just cant believe the "marker dosent make the player" statement, i shure as hell wouldnt want my back man shooting a pump, the ability for a back to shoot lanes and keep people in, has a lot to do with their marker.

Am i trying to argue that a good player couldnt walk on a rec ball field with ANY marker and do well? Not at all, I think in that situation, if you are good, you can win with anything. But, in the competative paintball world, bottom line is that markers do matter. Take tygers team for instance, they played amataure open if i am correct, with all pumps (mabey a blazer one game?) now, those are all skilled players, and yet, they got rolled all day because, why? their markers, there really isnt any other argument for that.

anyway, i too have become dis-interested in owning a mag as a primary.

[TheTramp]

Isn't how many shots per tank the real issue? If you could get 2000 shots on a 68/3000 tank would you care that you couldn't shot the tank lower than 600 (or 800, or what ever)?


I can answer this: Absolutly yes!

If I could get 2000 shots out of a 68/4500 let alone a 68/3000 then I wouldn't care at all how far into the tank it shot. That only matters due to the decreased number of shots it implies.

[Lohman446]

lets be real honest here. If there was any gun, from a spyder to a bling'd out timmy, that was truely better than any gun everyone would be using them, regardless of marker sponsership.

They all shoot @ 300fps, some slower, some faster, and some do it all consistantly. Everything else is just crap we tell ourselves to justify our purchase. I know its hard to swallow considering the kid with the rental m98 has just as good a gun as your $$2k timmy/matrix/borg/viking.

I can disect this statement to mean however that the more prevelant a marker in any particular use the better that marker is for that use. Sure there is competition at the highest end for speedball use - my point is that the mag is not winning that competetition, for that matter I don't think it is, anymore, even among the top competitors.

We can continue to stick our heads in the sand and whine about the hype, I guess thats one way to deal with it - I really dont care, not my company - I was merely trying to offer something constructive.

[Mr. Mouse]

devil mag or e-mag/xmag with the predator 2 board will fit your needs, im sure if AGD updated there designs they could be one of the top companys agian

[GT]

Sure there is competition at the highest end for speedball use my point is that the mag is not winning that competetition, not my company

Who cares?

Is kingman in trouble? How about tippmann? You dont have to make equipment for the top 10% of paintballers for the equipment to be good, to use your argument. Besides the top 10% of ballers, for the most part, are sponsered so they themselves do not even get a choice :eek: . Again you are still looking at others to drive your purchase. Infact you are allowing your personal feelings for the product to interfer with that of good sound buisness.

[hitech]

In regards to efficiency, I wasn't referring to anything in particular. I was only trying to point out that it is the number of shots per tank that matter. How low you can shoot the tank is meaningless. However, it seems that is the most recent desired feature. It's another one of those "have-to-haves" that doesn't matter. And I think a lot of people have lost site of why they even wanted it in the first place. More efficient can be a benefit.

'Mags use to be average in the efficiency department. Has that changed?

Additionally, what a more efficient marker? I can tell you how to get an approx 20% increase in efficiency. However, I doubt that anyone here will do it.



































How? Use a small bore barrel that is the correct length for the marker and has NO PORTING.

:cheers:

[hitech]

Battery integrated to trigger frame - standard 9V like many other high end guns are capable of using.


Since I'm on a roll...... :rofl: ;)

Why do you care where they battery is? And why do you care if it is a 9 volt battery?

WDP seems to have done fine without that. 9 volt batteries are a poor choice in batteries. Other than paintball equipment, what do you find with 9 volt batteries?

BTW, I HATE batteries that are in the grip. So much so that I move the battery of my old hyoerframe out of the grip. :D

[Lohman446]

Since I'm on a roll...... :rofl: ;)

Why do you care where they battery is? And why do you care if it is a 9 volt battery?

WDP seems to have done fine without that. 9 volt batteries are a poor choice in batteries. Other than paintball equipment, what do you find with 9 volt batteries?

BTW, I HATE batteries that are in the grip. So much so that I move the battery of my old hyoerframe out of the grip. :D

Im obsessive, I can carry half a dozen extras cheap - and I do.

[dj89]

Once I almost bought an Impulse, then a shocker, and then, and I was VERY tempted, a 2005 Angel Speed...but I ended up with 4 'Mags instead!

Once I bought an Impulse, and then, and I was VERY tempted, a Cocker...but I ended up with 4 'Mags instead......And love them....-Me :D

[Lohman446]

Wrong place for this discussion...

I'm wrong on some points - I have no doubt about that.

I'm not wrong on all of them.

Now that we have basically told me that all markers are equal - explain to me why my next marker, which will be for scenario play, is a $400 mag and not a $200 Tippman

[dj89]

Becouse The Tac One it just so SEXY ;)

[Enemy]

ok my only complaint that you came up with is the effiecency or rather how deep it goes into the tank.. thats why my next marker is a viking will this change anything i doubt it...im very happy with my lvl 10 so much so i choose to eliminate the ace on my xmag! the mags effieciency is average its just that because it stops shooting at 1000 psi it loses an extra 300-400 shots that other markers get thats all!! i love my big battery pack maybe because i found a use for it.. for my battery pack runs my hopper do that with your 9V and i still can pull off atleast 10000 rnds before my battery is dead!! there are ways to put somethings to use you just cant do that so you moved on ohwell! congratulations :cry:

[GT]

Now that we have basically told me that all markers are equal - explain to me why my next marker, which will be for scenario play, is a $400 mag and not a $200 Tippman

tell me why you would spend an extra 200 for one marker over another.


The internet is a horrible place to convey ones message in a post effectively that is to be as complicated of an issue as this one.

Very true,
And I think all to often I come off as pissed off in my posts and that is the exact oppisite.

[warbeak2099]

You're all wrong! The isis is the uber marker. If it ever comes out lol...
Seriously though I've been thinking about getting one and ditching my mag. Now that my team is sponsored that may even be possible. Think about it though, it's a great gun. It's got the profile of a mag and shocker, it's more efficient than both, it's faster than both. it's got a better anti-chop system than both (break beams), t's about as light, it's supposedly very consistant, it's cheap ($699 for solid color), and it's made by a decent company.
However this could all be wrong once it comes out and is tested more widely. But when speaking to the people who have used them it sound pretty good.

Also, the only downsides to my mag that I've noticed are poor efficiency and the hassle of tuning it lvl x and ult). The gun is honestly very consistant at the chrony and on the field for that matter. Sure I get a first hot shot, but after that it's all pretty tight. And after you tune the lvl x and ult that's it. So that's really just an initial problem. Course I will have to tune the lvl x some time again in the future but that's not very hard once you get it. The weight? What is this balance problem I'm hearing of? With the ule bodies and milled rails today mags are lighter than anything I've ever held. My RT Custom is lighter than the Freeflow Shocker at the shop. And the balance of the gun is very comfortable. The only gripe i got is the efficiency. I go through my 68/3k tank insanely fast. That's why I'm buying a 4500. That should give me about 1k shots on a mag. That's certainly not low for what I shoot.
Now the only other area I will still have a problem in is speed. I can only shoot about 10-12bps with the ult tuned well. Fanning it I can get it up around 13-14bps. But I'm not going to fan the trigger in a game unless I'm looking to give the field a new coat of paint and not hit anyone. I'm not mechanically inclined so making my own custom e-frame is out of the question along with the Spydermag mod. I'm not made of money so I can't lay down $450-550 for the freaking Devilmag. Also, the HAir frame is never coming out and it looks like PTP is going to drag their feet since the market for that product would be relatively small. I wouldn't be able to spend $300 on that anyways. Is their a low-cost, bolt-on e/pneu frame out there? No, there isn't. And if one doesn't come out before summer (when my team starts playing tournies) I'm going to have to switch guns. So there's a problem right there. Very few people are going to lay down money on a gun that can only legally shoot up to around 15bps (perfect for xball or psp but those are the only two with the 15bps cap). So what is a person to do? Well we don't have much of a choice. If the Isis is out by summer and a low cost, drop-in e/pneu frame for the mag is not, I'm sadly going to have to buy the Isis. This post proves I'm not the only one who's switching.

So not only are people not initially buying mags anymore, but now mag owners themselves are switching. Not good. And alas, AGD drags their feet lately so they probably won't correct the situation until it's too late. I really wish they'd listen to the current requests of present and potential customers and forget about laying low. Laying low doesn't make a company money nor does it satisfy customers. If they are going to stay away from electros then they better damn well put some effort into this pneu-frame idea if they aren't already supporting PTP.

Rant over,
Pete

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

I dont understand why all these people are saying e-mags are high maintence, mabey im just lucky but... I own EM000155, I never have problems with it, I set up LX on the valve and havent had to touch it even once. it never leaks and stops on even britle paint. I havent choped since I put it in, and ive probally shotup around 20 cases. I love the way the batt pack feels since ive goten used to it and I actually prefer it. only problem I have had was the charger burnt up somehow... and I think that can be expected with a electric gun thats that old. I dont notice a huge slow down with level 10 except mabey the fact that im feeding it with a revvy and it skips shots all day long... so I dont care about eyes and I sure dont think the e-mag feels bulky, well since I shaved down my trigger frame and milled off the hump... but the only thing that I feel is a drawback is the 800psi thing. but even then all the feilds I play at have all day air and 4500 fills so it doesnt bother me.

I love my e-mag and will never trade it... unless someone offers me an insane ammount of cash. Im not saying its the best gun but it sure as hell isnt out dated. I can shoot as fast on it as all those people with timmys and angels and all that mess. I am thinking about getting a new gun (ego) but Ill always keep my e-mag cause the thing never lets me down.

short story...
I went to the paintball field after not playing for 6months or more.... my e-mag hadnt been aired up, dry fired or even oiled since the last time I played, I hadnt adjusted the velocity or anything. I wasnt even playing this day but I decided to bring my gun to show it off. turned out a kids DM4 went down after he just got it for christmas... so I said hey wanna use my gun? and he was like what is that thing? I told him an e-mag and just play with it its fast. so he said dang thanks... he aired it up and put on paint and chronoed and it shot the same as it did 6months ago. it performed well all day, no chops no barrel breaks just straight up perfect all day. the kid who had never shot a e-mag before was suprised and was able to shoot it just as fast as his dm4 he thanked me and took his hopper and paint and left. I went home and its still sitting there now, i know the next time I play its gonna work just as good as the day I got it.... the end :)

[GA Devil]

for efficiency how much paint do most of you actually carry on the field that a mag cant handle with a 68/4500 tank? Ive never once been playing a game that i ran out of air because i carried too much paint. Fill your tank between games like most people. In a 5 man game most i usually use is 1500 lbs and im usually 1 of the last in if not in to the end.

For speed Ive given that option

For battery ive given that also

For versitility ive gave that

For anti chop...yup that too.

i love people making fun of my "mags" till they see em shoot then they want 1. Watched it happen at cup. guy wanted to use 1 from a local team so loaned him my wifes. his whole team gave him more crap then ive ever seen from a team for him carrying it. His captain told him he could NOT walk on the field with it. He did anyway. After 1 match he was told to use it as much as he wanted and a few others on the team took it out during the game. D2 Xball and it kept up with everything out there and the refs even came to me asking if it was cheating cause they didnt think a mag could shoot like that. He ran with a 45/4500 and never had any issues with running out of air. He played 2 full games with it. No they arent the most efficient markers out there..but theres still worse.

[trains are bad]

For a tournament marker, yeah, as long as I can shoot all the paint I can carry efficiency is pointless, because I fill every game anyway in case I deverlop a leak. And I use a 68cu tank regardless because I like the size.

[Ken]

Viking

[hitech]

For efficiency how much paint do most of you actually carry on the field that a mag cant handle with a 68/4500 tank? Ive never once been playing a game that I ran out of air because I carried too much paint...

Remember, not everyone plays speedball, and not everyone has a 4500 psi tank. ;) Better efficiency would be, well, better. :D

:cheers:

[GA Devil]

Remember, not everyone plays speedball, and not everyone has a 4500 psi tank. ;) Better efficiency would be, well, better. :D

:cheers:


yes as so would a car that travels through worm holes to save time when traveling but we dont have that either. In anything in life its impossible to have the best of all worlds and even more impossible to make everyone happy.

[hitech]

yes as so would a car that travels through worm holes to save time when traveling but we dont have that either. In anything in life its impossible to have the best of all worlds and even more impossible to make everyone happy.

Not sure, but your post reads like you missed the intention of the similes in mine. :D

I use an eMag, and the only time I have really wanted it to get more shots per tank is in scenario games. However, I believe that the 'mag can be made more efficient, but don't have the time or resources to do so....

:cheers:

[teufelhunden]

Rogue, at least from my perspective, the efficiency issue isn't about being able to shoot more in a game, it's about being able to carry a smaller tank that still gets the job done. I was estatic when I dropped good internals in my old 'Cocker and could go from an 88/45 to a 68/45 and still shoot as much paint as I would ever need to [something like 9 pods + hopper, iirc,, of course, that was the exception and not the norm, but it's better to have it and not need it! ;)]

I'd cream myself if I could use a 45/45 and still shoot 1500.. not that it's anywhere near a reality, but it'd be nice.

[hitech]

Ive never had a problem with running out of air.


I've only really had a problem in scenario type games. With a 68/3000 I can shoot all the paint I carry. But I don't carry much paint by todays standards (4 tubes). However, in the scenario game at Fort Ord I usually ended up making myself a target and trying to get my opponents to hang out a little too far just before I was eliminated. ;) I'd have liked to carry more paint...

:cheers:

All that said, have things changed or is a 'mag about average in the efficiency department?

[shartley]

I use a 68/4500 with my RT Pro and don’t really have a problem with running out in a game or two. Then again I don’t subscribe to massive paint throwing either. So at a public/business field I don’t have a problem. But when I am playing on my private field I can go almost all day with one fill…. Almost.

[teufelhunden]

I believe the difference with those guns is that there's something you can do to improve the efficiency in the aftermarket upgrade department. No such product exists for the 'Mag. Hell, probably the most popular aftermarket upgrade for Automags, LX, actually decreased efficiency ;)

[SlartyBartFast]

I believe the difference with those guns is that there's something you can do to improve the efficiency in the aftermarket upgrade department. No such product exists for the 'Mag. Hell, probably the most popular aftermarket upgrade for Automags, LX, actually decreased efficiency ;)

How does the "efficiency" of those markers stack up with the Mag?

[NewMagMan21]

Fine Rogue.. Marker has nothing to do with it :rolleyes: you do play with a pump right? - the 20 foot per second inconsistency taht seems to go with the X-valve is actually my biggest complaint about it - followed by the problematic nature of mine.

Yes, skill is important, more important than marker, but marker does mean something...

Personally I've never had 20 fps inconsistency mabye I'm lucky er my parts or whatever. But the most fluxation I've seen at in 5 shots is like 10. The marker does help your play but I think your overhyping it. Personally a totally tricked out E-mag isn't my ultimate dream gun...(sorry to say :) ) But if I had that Ultimate dream gun I don't think it would give much more of an edge, ( course I'm not a big paint sprayer if I can help it ;) ).
To give you an example my freind owns a DM-4 and I owned a Spyder E-99 (stock) before I got my first mag. While he move and continuosly :shooting: ed all over the place I just changed bunkers, got a better angle, and took him down. If I had a DM-4 as did he we would have made just the same moves and the same scenario would have happened.
The only thing my mag changed was my paint price.

Anyway for me the gun means near crap. ( Unless you buy BE guns ;) :p )

[teufelhunden]

How does the "efficiency" of those markers stack up with the Mag?

Stock? Probably about equal, maybe an extra half pod per 68.45. With an Evolve/similiar, however, there's no comparison.

[phantomhitman]

yes as so would a car that travels through worm holes to save time when traveling but we dont have that either. In anything in life its impossible to have the best of all worlds and even more impossible to make everyone happy.

i am the reason for this statement ;)

chris (gadevil) has more than covered the mag when it comes to bringing into current tourney play. for people that have not held, shot, witnessed, or seen a video of any devilmag in action needs to experiance it. i will be his lil devil whore as long as i can.


why would someone pick a ferrari over a honda accord. i mean teh ferrari costs 250 times more, worse on gas, higher insurance, etc. It does not make sence logically, but guess what-people want them, and a few can buy them!!!
get want you want, shoots as fast or slow as you want, and just have fun playing your game. its like all of the tourney or speedballers started telling people what to do or something, if you dont like something stay away from it.
/rant

[Lohman446]

why would someone pick a ferrari over a honda accord. i mean teh ferrari costs 250 times more, worse on gas, higher insurance, etc. It does not make sence logically, it.
/rant

:rolleyes: This statement is getting old. How much is a DevilMag? How much is a Shocker? You're analogy.... well "it does not make sense logically".

[GA Devil]

:rolleyes: This statement is getting old. How much is a DevilMag? How much is a Shocker? You're analogy.... well "it does not make sense logically".

they are fairly competative in priceing actually. I can only do so much when I have to pay someone else for their parts at THEIR price. Comparing the 2 can only be compared as size, wieght and electronic. Eye system is different, and what you can do with it is WAY different. A standard Complete DevilMAG is $900. I actually own both and so does my wife. We both go to the DevilMAGs when playing not just because its mine but because of how it performs. I can use any color shell in my DevilMAG, can you in a shocker?

[Lohman446]

they are fairly competative in priceing actually. I can only do so much when I have to pay someone else for their parts at THEIR price. Comparing the 2 can only be compared as size, wieght and electronic. Eye system is different, and what you can do with it is WAY different. A standard Complete DevilMAG is $900. I actually own both and so does my wife. We both go to the DevilMAGs when playing not just because its mine but because of how it performs. I can use any color shell in my DevilMAG, can you in a shocker?

I wasn't complaining about the DevilMag, or its price. I was complaning about the Honda/Ferrarri comparison. They are comparable markers - please note that the DevilMag has 90%+ of the refinements I asked for, as Im sure you know. As for shell color, never been an issue - I don't know I'm guessing you know the answer to be no though which I have no reason to think otherwise. I have toyed with the idea of having a DevilMAG some... and it still sits in my mind. Scenario marker first though (I don't want electronics for it).

[GA Devil]

I wasn't complaining about the DevilMag, or its price. I was complaning about the Honda/Ferrarri comparison. They are comparable markers - please note that the DevilMag has 90%+ of the refinements I asked for, as Im sure you know. As for shell color, never been an issue - I don't know I'm guessing you know the answer to be no though which I have no reason to think otherwise. I have toyed with the idea of having a DevilMAG some... and it still sits in my mind. Scenario marker first though (I don't want electronics for it).


Yeah i was just making a point. Not attackign u. Sorry if it came out that way. AS for the shell color, try shooing real dark colored shell paint thru a shocker with the eye on. Or even a 1/2 black and say 1/2 pink shell. Reflective eyes cant see dark colors to reflect back.

on a side note we can make a tactical version of the DevilMAG ;) been a nice hit with scenerio players. :D

[awwdavy]

Some fields charge up to 8 dollars for a 4500 fill, so better efficiency ends up saving some dough. But with that being said 5-8 bucks for a fill is nothing compared to the hundreds or even thousands spent on a marker, gear, and paint.

[xXHavokXx]

Some fields charge up to 8 dollars for a 4500 fill, so better efficiency ends up saving some dough. But with that being said 5-8 bucks for a fill is nothing compared to the hundreds or even thousands spent on a marker, gear, and paint.


WTF!!!!!! I swear some of you live in Soviet Russia sometimes. 10 bucks a fill, 110 for paint. MOVE TO CALIFORNIA!!!!! So much competition there is no room for stores and fields to get rich.