california is at it again

[HoppysMag]

http://www.sangabrielvalleygunclub.com/

they are trying to get rid of a shooting range used by civilians and police, thats been there for 60 years. people moved into the area, knowing the club was there. signe waivers, and are now complaining. people are stupid.

[SCpoloRicker]

yes. yes they are. this has been around...

[Python14]

Trust someone in california to do something like that.

Here in VA, if there isn't a shooting range......well, there's never not a shooting a range. Everyone has a window. ;)

[Boski51]

Please keep in mind that Califonia should really be about two or three different states. The folks in So Cal-generally speaking look at things differently than those in Nor Cal. In fact those in the Bay Area and LA area are generally politically much more left leaning than those in the rest of the state. Unfortunetly for the "red state" people, the majority of this fine state vote "blue" if they vote at all.

Boski

[B.A.M.]

atleast you dont live in the gay state. Massachuessets.

[Jack_Dubious]

People shouldnt automatically assume that just because a city is trying to shut down a Gun Club ,its because the city hates guns.
Isnt it just as possible perhaps that the City wants that land, or the neighbors hate the noise?


on a side note to everyone who lives in other states: California really does suck....so i think you should all QUIT MOVING HERE!!! We're full! :shooting:

JDub

[frontrunner]

I'd like to declare florida full too...

on topic this happend to the range i used to shoot at as a kid it was huge and had space for everything but it got force to close. A real reason was never given but a huge subdivsion poped up 2 years later. Its sad bucause there are many indoor ranges in the area but that was they out door range and i am still looking for a place to really shoot i love balck powder but have no real place to shoot around here. i sucks but its life

[HoppysMag]

atleast you dont live in the gay state. Massachuessets.
i do

[HoppysMag]

People shouldnt automatically assume that just because a city is trying to shut down a Gun Club ,its because the city hates guns.
Isnt it just as possible perhaps that the City wants that land, or the neighbors hate the noise?


on a side note to everyone who lives in other states: California really does suck....so i think you should all QUIT MOVING HERE!!! We're full! :shooting:

JDub

well, the "niegbors" moved in AFTER the gun club was there. so that just seems to be punishing the stupid with noise. and its not like they are as close as your nieghbor, theres buffer zones... its almost a fact. its because they are anti gun

[drg]

Well I did a little reading on the topic and it does seem that residents of the development can indeed hear the noise from the gun club. And it's not so much an opposition of guns in general as it is a concern for improving or maintaining property value.

This kind of thing happens all the time, stadiums and other public-use facilities are rezoned and moved away as residential expansion occurs. In a town that is trying to evolve (expand), this is almost matter-of-course.

The gun club uses a lot of space and is economically not a big mover. It will reduce the value of further developments in the area. Such is the nature of capitalism, the almighty dollar speaks. Sucks to be on the wrong end of it, eh?

[Jack_Dubious]

well, the "niegbors" moved in AFTER the gun club was there. so that just seems to be punishing the stupid with noise. and its not like they are as close as your nieghbor, theres buffer zones... its almost a fact. its because they are anti gun


I am not saying the neighbors are right or wrong. i would personally support the gun club. I just dont see where its a proven "fact" that the neighbors are antigun.
I wouldnt want to live next to a strip club...but that doesnt make me anti stripper. Hell i love strippers more than guns!! :dance:

JDub

[Destructo6]

People shouldnt automatically assume that just because a city is trying to shut down a Gun Club ,its because the city hates guns.
Isnt it just as possible perhaps that the City wants that land, or the neighbors hate the noise?
The complaining neighbors, as said earlier, moved in long after (decades) the range was operational. They signed disclosures when they purchased the house. It effected their property values before they owned the property. To complain now seems more than a little bit insincere.

As for LA County being anti-gun...with the possible exception of Cook Co, there aren't any more so.

[PyRo]

People shouldnt automatically assume that just because a city is trying to shut down a Gun Club ,its because the city hates guns.
Isnt it just as possible perhaps that the City wants that land, or the neighbors hate the noise?


on a side note to everyone who lives in other states: California really does suck....so i think you should all QUIT MOVING HERE!!! We're full! :shooting:

JDub
So if the city wants your house it is alright for them to try and find a way to get you out?
The neigbors hate the noise? The people moved in next to a gun club then complained about the noise? Give me a break.

[PyRo]

I wouldnt want to live next to a strip club...but that doesnt make me anti stripper. Hell i love strippers more than guns!! :dance:

JDub
So are you going to buy a house next to a strip club them complain about it?

[pbzmag]

So if the city wants your house it is alright for them to try and find a way to get you out?

It's called imminent domain. It happens alot with houses/land close to freeways.

[Army]

Calli has laws concerning just this. Passed in the 80's by a wide majority. If the gun range has been there long before the neighbors came, the new people lose.

They already tried this in Atascadero (Ca.) with the local gun club....didn't work. Heck, the Sierra Club has been trying to shut down my my club range since it opened in the late 70's, all because it resides on US property and "the land should be availabel for anyone to use, not just a private club"...which has also been tossed out of court, since the club and range is open to anyone.

It wouldn't surprise me that the San Gabriel range gets shut down...not by court order, but by going broke answering all the lawsuits. Such is the way with the new Liberal agenda.

[Pickle]

As for LA County being anti-gun...with the possible exception of Cook Co, there aren't any more so.

You have forgotten San Fransisco my good friend. They are trying to outlaw ownership of all handguns....period.

This is the same as people moving next to an airport and then complaining about the noise. John Wayne airport in Orange County, CA is a prime example. There is a curfew there. Planes can't leave after 10pm. Why? Because rich people live under the flight plan. :rolleyes:

[SCpoloRicker]

Calli has laws concerning just this. Passed in the 80's by a wide majority. If the gun range has been there long before the neighbors came, the new people lose.

They already tried this in Atascadero (Ca.) with the local gun club....didn't work. Heck, the Sierra Club has been trying to shut down my my club range since it opened in the late 70's, all because it resides on US property and "the land should be availabel for anyone to use, not just a private club"...which has also been tossed out of court, since the club and range is open to anyone.

It wouldn't surprise me that the San Gabriel range gets shut down...not by court order, but by going broke answering all the lawsuits. Such is the way with the new Liberal agenda.

You had me till "the new Liberal agenda."

[drg]

You had me till "the new Liberal agenda."

It's kind of like saying shrinking government by bankrupting it with unchecked deficit spending is the new Conservative agenda.

[ej_y4]

Please keep in mind that Califonia should really be about two or three different states. The folks in So Cal-generally speaking look at things differently than those in Nor Cal. In fact those in the Bay Area and LA area are generally politically much more left leaning than those in the rest of the state. Unfortunetly for the "red state" people, the majority of this fine state vote "blue" if they vote at all.

Boski
Um i live in LA county, your wrong. Most of socal is conserative(most of LA is libaral). Where that gun club is located is a very conservative area, i know, i live near there.

the people there probably dont like the idea of a gun range by their houses, i know i wouldnt. However they moved there knowing there was a gun range. The range will probably be shut down because of the lawsuits and lawer fees. Its a shame, but there are other gun ranges around.

[Pickle]

Speaking in generalities here

Most liberals don't like guns, most conservatives like guns. There are exceptions to both but mostly this is true.

When comparing the "liberal" party to the "conservative" party you will find that 9 out of 10 times the "liberal" party will be the one trying to put some restriction on gun ownership or use. I beleive that is all Army was trying to convey, albeit is a much shorter context.

[Jack_Dubious]

So are you going to buy a house next to a strip club them complain about it?

Let me repeat myself again. I am not saying that the neighbors have a valid argument! Im saying just because they dont want the gun club next to them, does not automatically make them anti-gun.

JDub

[Pickle]

Even I would agree to the that.

[drg]

Most liberals don't like guns, most conservatives like guns. There are exceptions to both but mostly this is true.

That's crap. Most anti-gun groups align themselves with liberal causes more (which is a no-brainer, they want regulation). That is NOT the same thing as most liberals being anti-gun. That's a logical flaw.

Also, favoring gun control does NOT mean someone doesn't "like" guns.

[1stdeadeye]

People shouldnt automatically assume that just because a city is trying to shut down a Gun Club ,its because the city hates guns.
Isnt it just as possible perhaps that the City wants that land, or the neighbors hate the noise?


on a side note to everyone who lives in other states: California really does suck....so i think you should all QUIT MOVING HERE!!! We're full! :shooting:

JDub

Yay! JDub has returned!!!

Where have you been!

[1stdeadeye]

atleast you dont live in the gay state. Massachuessets.

At least your Govenor did not come out of the closet after having a gay affair with an Israeli National who he got a job watching over our homeland security! :nono: :cry:

It's gonna take us a while to live that down. :cuss:

[1stdeadeye]

I wouldnt want to live next to a strip club...but that doesnt make me anti stripper. Hell i love strippers more than guns!! :dance:

JDub
:clap: :hail:

[tsc]

For everyone saying Democrat != gunhater, do a search over at http://www.democrats.org for "gun control". Yeah. While well-applied gun control is needed, banning everything that's matte black and has a trigger is ridiculous.

Now, liberals are not always Democrats, that is true. However, the majority of liberals are democrats.

See, for example, Illinois. You cannot own a handgun in Chicago. No Class 3, statewide. FOID is state law. If you are institutionalized (ie, loony bin, whether consentual or not) makes you ineligible for this. Unless you are police/FBI, you cannot carry a concealed weapon. Period. They may be hard to get in California, but they exist.

Everyone complains about California, and other states have just as restrictive gun laws. California just tends to make a bigger show about it.

[brianlojeck]

ok, here's an LA resident's take on it.

1: yes, most upper-middle class white socal residents are anti-gun. They are also anti-airplane, which is why most planes fly low over poor black and hispanic houses while John Wayne airport leads the country in tailstrikes (when the plane's tail hits the ground on takeoff) due to the steep takeoff angle to keep the rich folk quiet

2: yes, they are claiming all sorts of reasons to close the club. noise, polution, traffic, etc... the ultimate reason is, they dont' like guns. You can't close a club because you don't like guns, so they look for other stupid reasons. How many reasons came out in support of Prop 187? nobody actually said "it's because we hate Mexicans", but that was a pretty big reason for it...

3: socal may be economically conservative (esp. the wealthy), but they are socially liberal, sort of the opposite of a Libertarian. the average cali activist thinks teenagers should be able to get abortions without their parent' knowledge, yet thinks a man shouldn't be able to buy a Playboy. there is no logic, that's why their activists and not philosophers...

4: no, it's not just liberals that do this. a conservative city would do the same thing to keep a homeless shelter or rape crisis center out of it's borders.

[Pickle]

Actually no, it is not "crap" but thank you for your well thought out response (knee jerk).

Please remember that I said I was speaking in generalities and that there were exceptions.

DRG - "Most anti-gun groups align themselves with liberal causes more (which is a no-brainer, they want regulation). That is NOT the same thing as most liberals being anti-gun. That's a logical flaw."

And I could argue that most liberals would align themselves with anti-gun causes. It is a circular argument. Anti-gun liberals outnumber anti-gun conservatives 10-1, at least.

DRG - "Also, favoring gun control does NOT mean someone doesn't "like" guns."

I suppose this could be semi-successfully argued however, if you like guns, support the 2nd amendment you will probably not favor gun control. A caveat to this would be 100 round drum assault rifles. If you don't like guns and think that the 2nd amendment does not apply to citizens (see 9th circuit court decision) then you will probably favor gun control. It is a way to get rid of something that you don't like. Yes, it is that simple.

The anti-gun lobby is attacking the wrong people. Let's take San Fransisco for example. They are attemtping to outlaw handgun ownership. Not possessing in public or concealed but actualy ownership. This includes in your own home. Ask yourself why in the world would a government not want John Q. Public to be able to protect themselves? Guns need to be removed from the criminals hands, not JQP's hands.

If the problem is criminals and gangbangers shooting people then why are laws being passed or attempted to be passed that would remove guns from normal citizenry without affecting the criminal element? Answer, they don't like guns.

Arguing that guns kill people is like arguing that spoons made Rosie O'Donnel (sp?) fat.

[PyRo]

Everyone complains about California, and other states have just as restrictive gun laws. California just tends to make a bigger show about it.
California is also usually the first to adapt new laws then other states follow. The same with vehicle emissions.

[Pickle]

ok, here's an LA resident's take on it.

1: yes, most upper-middle class white socal residents are anti-gun. They are also anti-airplane, which is why most planes fly low over poor black and hispanic houses while John Wayne airport leads the country in tailstrikes (when the plane's tail hits the ground on takeoff) due to the steep takeoff angle to keep the rich folk quiet

2: yes, they are claiming all sorts of reasons to close the club. noise, polution, traffic, etc... the ultimate reason is, they dont' like guns. You can't close a club because you don't like guns, so they look for other stupid reasons. How many reasons came out in support of Prop 187? nobody actually said "it's because we hate Mexicans", but that was a pretty big reason for it...

3: socal may be economically conservative (esp. the wealthy), but they are socially liberal, sort of the opposite of a Libertarian. the average cali activist thinks teenagers should be able to get abortions without their parent' knowledge, yet thinks a man shouldn't be able to buy a Playboy. there is no logic, that's why their activists and not philosophers...

4: no, it's not just liberals that do this. a conservative city would do the same thing to keep a homeless shelter or rape crisis center out of it's borders.

Your post could almost be inferred as having a racist tone to it :nono: You need to be more careful what you type and how if this is not the case. No, as of yet, I do not think you are racist. I'm just giving you a word of advice. Please take it how it is meant. :)

As a white Orange County resident who actually lives here I can shed some on it for you.

1. John Wayne take offs are indeed steep due to the noise abatement program they have there. Yes, most planes take off over affluent areas and they have political clout.

2. First part of your post in on topic and good. How prop 187 came into this argument is beyond me. But I'll humor you. For those that don't know prop 187 was an anti-illegal immigrant proposition that passed by the voters (all the voters of CA, even the liberal ones) by 60%. CA is mostly liberal yet this initiative still passed. This proposition took away many social programs and benefits that illegal immigrants get. This would also be any illegal immigrant, not just your "Mexicans". However, illegal immigrants who are mostly Mexican here, cost the state of CA 8 billion last year. It was not a anti-Mexican prop as you suggest. It was a anti-illegal immigrant prop. If CA is so liberal why would minority loving liberals not want minorities here?

The biggest problem with this prop was that it removed kids from schools and such. No matter how you cut it you can't mess with kids.

3. You make some good points. No real argument there. Other than you apparently have some issues with wealthy people. No, I am not one of them.

4. A homeless shelter? Perhaps. Depends on location. A rape crisis center? :rolleyes: I don't think so. Why in the world would a conservative city, or liberal for that matter, want to keep a rape crisis center from opening anywhere? That's balderdash.

[Pickle]

I can see this thread getting out of control if people do not use a civil tongue. So, let's please keep this adult and respectful. :)

[brianlojeck]

Your post could almost be inferred as having a racist tone to it :nono: You need to be more careful what you type and how if this is not the case. No, as of yet, I do not think you are racist. I'm just giving you a word of advice. Please take it how it is meant. :)



Well, I am white, so I figure I'm allowed to say this under the same rule that lets black people call each other "niggah".



1. John Wayne take offs are indeed steep due to the noise abatement program they have there. Yes, most planes take off over affluent areas and they have political clout.


steep to the point that aircraft hit the ground. that's not good. and when the same problem sprung up in North Long Beach (where I used to live) we all got the finger from the government. My walls used to rattle every time Jet Blue took off, and I lived a good half hour drive from Long Beach Airport. Those planes cut a narrow path, avoiding Lakewood and Signal Hill (both more wealthy areas), yet managing to go over North Long Beach and Compton (both less wealthy areas).



2. First part of your post in on topic and good. How prop 187 came into this argument is beyond me.


one of the prime examples of how many BS excuses for a law you'll hear someone plop on the table to hide their real agenda. Prop 187 was a knee-jerk reaction by people who were tired of having to press one for english.

I wrote my post pretty badly here, I was tired. ;-)



If CA is so liberal why would minority loving liberals not want minorities here?
good point. my first guess would be that potheads just don't seem to make it out to the polls. ;-)



The biggest problem with this prop was that it removed kids from schools and such. No matter how you cut it you can't mess with kids.




3. You make some good points. No real argument there. Other than you apparently have some issues with wealthy people. No, I am not one of them.

me either. I'm sure I'd be more understanding if I were. ;-)



4. A homeless shelter? Perhaps. Depends on location. A rape crisis center? :rolleyes: I don't think so. Why in the world would a conservative city, or liberal for that matter, want to keep a rape crisis center from opening anywhere? That's balderdash.

Rape Center was the wrong term... I meant those halfway houses for women, like when they're on the run from an abusive husband. I've seen two of these shut down or have plans canceled to build them due to public NIMBY protests (one in NY, one in Cali).

My point was, no activist group ever admits that they just don't like the local gun club/strip club/homeless shelter. Their is a set of stock protests that are brought up to hide their true intentions, and as such poor neighboorhoods pull most of the weight when it comes to dealing with the hassles of every day city life.

[Pickle]

Rape Center was the wrong term... I meant those halfway houses for women, like when they're on the run from an abusive husband. I've seen two of these shut down or have plans canceled to build them due to public NIMBY protests (one in NY, one in Cali).

That's a shame. People should be throwing their doors open and pulling the the protective curtain down for women on the run.


My point was, no activist group ever admits that they just don't like the local gun club/strip club/homeless shelter. Their is a set of stock protests that are brought up to hide their true intentions, and as such poor neighboorhoods pull most of the weight when it comes to dealing with the hassles of every day city life.

Amen and one example for protestors hiding their true intentions. Jesse Jackson and his rainbow Coaltition. I think they just hate white people.

[brianlojeck]

That's a shame. People should be throwing their doors open and pulling the the protective curtain down for women on the run.


It really is a shame. The main perception problem is that a lot of these women are poor, many have drug or alcohol problems (or are perceived to anyway) and many are (gasp and horror) minorities.

Hence my issues with the wealthy. How much have hollywood stars given to asian tsunami support recently? How much did these same people give to help education or the poor here in the states in the past few years? How many of them worry about medical care in the Compton/Watts/Lynwood area now that King/Drew closed it's ER? How many of them would let a halfway house open up near them? Or a medical center that caters to HIV patients?

[Pickle]

Oh boy,

Don't get me going on those Hollywood spokesholes! :shooting:

[PyRo]

Would you want a half way house next door?
A whole bunch of people living in the house, comming and going constantly. Your going to get some winners too, yelling, police showing up, angry ex husbands showing up, etc. Your propertly value going down. No one wants that opening up next door.

[Pickle]

Would I want a "half way house". No. That description lends itself to probationers, parolees and drug users.

Would I want a safe house for abused women? I wouldn't care.