Anyone know anything about asbestos? [Archive]

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paintbattler

01-04-2005, 10:04 PM

drg

01-04-2005, 10:11 PM

How long ago did you enter it? Asbestos is taken out of buildings before they are wrecked, otherwise the dust would go airborne. There's probably not a lot of risk, generally health problems with asbestos only occur after working with it directly (i.e. being exposed to the dust) for a while, and still mostly do not manifest until decades later.

Yogster

01-04-2005, 10:17 PM

Asbestos is a non-flamable fiber that was used in older homes and building for insulation. Like drg has said unless you have been subjected to it for a long period of time you don't have any worries.

PyRo

01-04-2005, 10:21 PM

Don't worry about it, you need to breath a lot of it over a long period of time to do any serious harm.

Tunaman

01-04-2005, 10:29 PM

Don't worry about it, you need to breath a lot of it over a long period of time to do any serious harm.ONE asbestos fiber, smaller than than the human eye can see, if ingested in the lung can (and will) produce cancer. This fiber can sit in your lung for 10-20 years before it happens(in can happen overnight too). Asbestos is VERY, VERY bad stuff. Absolutely positively stay as far away from airborn asbestos as you can.

929RR-MAN

01-04-2005, 10:32 PM

it shouldn't be harmful to you for the amount of time you were in there. best bet if you do encounter asbestos, don't stir it up, thats how it gets in your lungs, if you ever did have to work/walk around it, spray it down with water, that will mostly keep it from going airborn, i work in the trades and have worked around small amounts of asbestos and thats just one of the precautionary things we do. one littly handy fact that everyone might find interesting--if you ever encounter old 9" x 9" tile that has been laid down for flooring in any kind of building or house, chances are it contains asbestos,,so if you ever have to rip up tile from an older building and it measures those dimensions, have it tested,

i think you'll be just fine

Thordic

01-04-2005, 10:58 PM

Actually there are different kinds of asbestos. Some are more harmful than others.

Odds are with short exposure you'll be fine. Most of the anti-asbestos movement was a knee-jerk reaction. We would have been far better off finding a safer way to manufacture and implement it, its one of the more useful substances on the planet.

68bird

01-04-2005, 11:50 PM

were u hitting any insulation because it wouldent do any harm unless it is in the air it dosent realy fly around un less u hit it and the fibers can be harmfull if u breath them in. sence u were in an abandoned building there probibly wasent any flying aroung unelss u saw the stuff hanging out of the wall from some one hitting it befor u.

brianlojeck

01-05-2005, 02:55 AM

if you live near the average major city you've breathed in more harmful stuff while reading this reply then you did in that building.

As for the statement that one strand can cause cancer, by that same logic so can one splinter from varnished flooring or one long drive stuck in traffic behind a diesel schoolbus.

Now, over long times, asbestos can cause some really nasty effects. My wife had a coworker who had been exposed so heavily during his military service that he had to go for treatments where he was submerged in a breathable fluid to try to release the stuff from his lungs, and despite that he knew he was soon to die of lung disease. (at least, that's the story he told her... he could have been full of it for all I know...)

mwsriders

01-05-2005, 03:13 AM

my grade school had asbestos in it. they cleared it out the year i graduated and come to find out that asbestos if not moved around or made airborne is compleatly harmless. The removal of asbestos is much more harmfull than just being around it. Ceiling tiles were made of asbestos.

Thordic

01-05-2005, 08:56 AM

The removal of asbestos is much more harmfull than just being around it.

Absolutely. If instead of removing it they left it alone, or sealed the insulation better, it would have remained harmless. Instead there was a huge knee-jerk reaction to how dangerous it was. Instead of it remaining harmless for decades, they yanked it all out, potentially putting thousands of construction workers and schoolchildren at risk.

Its amazing what ignorant people with loud mouths in sufficient numbers can accomplish.

Hasty8

01-05-2005, 09:21 AM

Well..heres the story.
There is supposed to be this haunted old hospital in our town..so well me and my friends went to go check it out..wel walked through the whole place..it was scary, but not haunted..today i look in the paper, and i see it being bull dozed down.i read the article, and it says there was asbestos in it and was just cleared of it before the tore it down.

What are the chances I have it?

You have no risk whatsoever unless you were standing in a vast cloud of it. The people who eventually developed cancer from asbestos were those who originally worked with it, standing in huge clouds of the stuff for hours at a time, day in and day out.

The rants and irrational fears you hear about these days concerning asbestos are borne from a lack of knowledge.

Just to put it into perspective for you, of the thousands of relief workers at the WTC Hot Zone [rubble site], none has been diagnosed with asbestos poisoning.

Relax. You're fine.

Hasty8

01-05-2005, 09:24 AM

ONE asbestos fiber, smaller than than the human eye can see, if ingested in the lung can (and will) produce cancer. This fiber can sit in your lung for 10-20 years before it happens(in can happen overnight too). Asbestos is VERY, VERY bad stuff. Absolutely positively stay as far away from airborn asbestos as you can.

Can you please post the link where you picked up this tiny gem? :rofl:

You do realize that there are aceptable levels of asbestos based on time being exposed, right.

What was it Thordic said about stupid people?

[skooling of Tuna]

I had to add more insult just becuase this really was just about the stupidest thing I ever heard.

Asbestosis development begins when an amphibole is inhaled, and finds it's way into the lung. Amphibole travels deep into the lungs to one of the many millions of gas-exchanging structures called alveolus. Each alveolus has many cleaning cells called macrophages whose function is to destroy (eat-up) any particles that made it down to the alveoli. Unfortunately the macrophages are not capable to gobble-up the amphiboles. In trying to eat-up an amphibole, the macrophage essentially gets sliced open and the digestive molecules that are usually contained well-within the macrophages are spilled out into the alveolus. These particle-digestive molecules cause injury and scarring to the alveolus. This kind of scar formation is called fibrosis. The amphibole that remains so un-restructed attracts other macrophages, leading to further scarring of the lungs.

Considering that a typical asbestos exposure involves hundreds and thousands of amphiboles, the end result is usually a large-scale injury to the lungs. Such a large-scale asbestos inflicted injury involving significant lung damage (pulmonary fibrosis) is usually referred to as Asbestosis.

What is Asbestosis? (http://www.mesothelioma-asbestosis.info/Asbestosis)

Now, please re-read that last paragraph Tuna.

Considering that a typical asbestos exposure involves hundreds and thousands of amphiboles, the end result is usually a large-scale injury to the lungs. Such a large-scale asbestos inflicted injury involving significant lung damage (pulmonary fibrosis) is usually referred to as Asbestosis.

An you think that just one amphibole is enough? :rofl: :dance: :tard:

And it does not happen overnight you simpleton. It takes a very long time for asbestosis to surface due to the process of the destruction of the macrophages and the resulting scaring of the alveolus.

You seriously should check your facts before you open your mouth.

What you just posted is akin to yelling "Fire" in a crowded theatre simply becuase you see a bit of smoke. :cuss:
[/skooling of Tuna]

PyRo

01-05-2005, 10:12 AM

PyRo

01-05-2005, 10:16 AM

One littly handy fact that everyone might find interesting--if you ever encounter old 9" x 9" tile that has been laid down for flooring in any kind of building or house, chances are it contains asbestos,,so if you ever have to rip up tile from an older building and it measures those dimensions, have it tested,

i think you'll be just fine

We never mess with those and most other companies don't either, the few that do use el salvadorians who don't know any better to do their demo. Most of the time it gets leveled and the new floor goes over the old. Some old siding also contains asbestos.

PyRo

01-05-2005, 10:22 AM

As I reacall tuna did say it could take 10-20 years to see any affects...

TheTramp

01-05-2005, 10:29 AM

Can you please post the link where you picked up this tiny gem? :rofl:

You do realize that there are aceptable levels of asbestos based on time being exposed, right.

What was it Thordic said about stupid people?

[skooling of Tuna]

I had to add more insult just becuase this really was just about the stupidest thing I ever heard.

What is Asbestosis? (http://www.mesothelioma-asbestosis.info/Asbestosis)

Now, please re-read that last paragraph Tuna.

An you think that just one amphibole is enough? :rofl: :dance: :tard:

And it does not happen overnight you simpleton. It takes a very long time for asbestosis to surface due to the process of the destruction of the macrophages and the resulting scaring of the alveolus.

You seriously should check your facts before you open your mouth.

What you just posted is akin to yelling "Fire" in a crowded theatre simply becuase you see a bit of smoke. :cuss:
[/skooling of Tuna]

I've worked in asbestos litigation foe 10 years and can give you so much anecdotal evidence you are an *** that you couldn't begin to read it all.

Tuna is correct one fiber can cause mesothelioma. One.

Before you call someone a simpleton perhaps you should take your book learning and cram it.

You sound like you either work for a company that's pissed off because it's liable for the poisoning of hundreds of people or a college kid who’s just taken a class which now makes him feel like a real scientist. :rolleyes:

Hasty8

01-05-2005, 10:30 AM

As I reacall tuna did say it could take 10-20 years to see any affects...

Then you recall incorrectly.

ONE asbestos fiber, smaller than than the human eye can see, if ingested in the lung can (and will) produce cancer. This fiber can sit in your lung for 10-20 years before it happens(in can happen overnight too). Asbestos is VERY, VERY bad stuff. Absolutely positively stay as far away from airborn asbestos as you can.

As Thordic said.

Stupid people and their desire to be heard.

PyRo

01-05-2005, 10:32 AM

This fiber can sit in your lung for 10-20 years before it happens
Did you say somthing Hasty?

Bolter

01-05-2005, 10:39 AM

there is an old guy who works with us who used to install asbestos into buildings by hand. All of his friends have died from asbestosis (sp) but he miraculously (again sp) is fine. Not sure how or why, but he has nothing wrong with him.

Chances are, you would not survive, but a small amount do.

Southpaw

01-05-2005, 10:47 AM

. But he is really screwed because he is the one who ripped it down and he smokes to top it off.

At least his lungs will not light on fire :mad:

Hasty8

01-05-2005, 11:05 AM

I've worked in asbestos litigation foe 10 years and can give you so much anecdotal evidence you are an *** that you couldn't begin to read it all.

Tuna is correct one fiber can cause mesothelioma. One.

Before you call someone a simpleton perhaps you should take your book learning and cram it.

You sound like you either work for a company that's pissed off because it's liable for the poisoning of hundreds of people or a college kid who’s just taken a class which now makes him feel like a real scientist. :rolleyes:

Wow. Another genius. I welcome whatever "anecdotal evidence" you are willing to give, which is what I would expect from a lawyer. I, however, prefer to remain within the realm of fact.

Perhaps, had you bothered to actually read the link you would know that I am neither and in fact, those FACTS I posted came from the Mesothelioma-Asbestosis Informational Resource Center (OOPS)!.

What is Mesothelioma-Asbestosis.Info?:
A website devoted to the needs of people diagnosed with mesothelioma, asbestosis. This is designed to be a member driven informational resource center, not a non-profit organization. It is not even an organization; rather it is a website. The content was not prepared by medical professionals or legal professionals and should not be taken as a substitute for medical or legal advice. It is an informational website created with the intent of helping people affected by various Respiratory Disorders including Mesothelioma, and Asbestosis.

I think I'll trust those with the condition rather than doctors or lawyers.

Speaking of lawyers, who is more at fault? The manufacturer who stopped using the material when the dangers became known or the "civil defender" who used lawyers to force the demolition of the building thereby releasing tons of toxics into the air?

Third, Tuna did not ever, not once say that it causes mesothelioma. What he did say is that one asbestos fiber can cause cancer. Please post links that show that a single asbestos amphibole can cause cancer because all the articles (and lawsuits) that I have found on the subject all claim the same thing.

"In order to develop cancer there must be extensive doses over extended periods of time".

Or as this Asbestos lawyer says:

Asbestos diseases follow a "dose-response" relationship curve, meaning the more asbestos fibers one inhales (doses) AND the higher number of exposures, then the higher the risk of an asbestos-related disease

Mesothelioma Lawyer (http://www.peritoneal-mesothelioma.com/)

Again, Tunamand did not say this. What he did say was the exact opposite that one single, solitary asbestos fiber could cause cancer overnight.

Even the American Lung Association says that a more substantial dosage than a single asbestos fiber is required:

Mesothelioma is usually caused by asbestos exposure. Asbestos is a fibrous mineral known to be carcinogenic. People who are exposed to asbestos fibers for just a short period of time (few weeks) or even to a small amount may be at risk. In particular, people working with asbestos and their family members or those who live with them develop mesothelioma.

Mesothelioma Fact Sheet (http://www.lungusa.org/site/apps/s/content.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=34706&ct=67338)

"A small amount". I am pretty sure that if a single fiber presented that significant an amount of danger then they would say so.

Now, before you start arguing semantics, that "theoritically" a single fiber could, let's look at the potential risks and see if Tuna's statement was worth it.

Nope. Fact is you need a small amount over a period of time. Paintbattler did not have this. He was in and out in a short period of time, probably before they ever removed the asbestos so it is highly probable that the asbestos was "encapsulated" according to legal requirements.

Again, Tuna's words were irresponsible and akin to yelling fire in a crowded theatre just becuase you see a bit of smoke.

Hasty8

01-05-2005, 11:08 AM

Did you say somthing Hasty?

Typical Pyro. Ignore what is not convienent. What do you think is more likely to scare Paint?

The fact that it could take 10-20 years or the fact that "a single fiber could cause it overnight"?

Let's be serious here Pyro. Are you actually saying that a single asbestos thread could cause cancer overnight?

Anyway, rest assured PAint, you do not have asbestos poisoning.

[edit]

Okay, Pyro pissed me off so now I'll simply tear apart Tuna's statement.

ONE asbestos fiber, smaller than than the human eye can see, if ingested in the lung can (and will) produce cancer. This fiber can sit in your lung for 10-20 years before it happens(in can happen overnight too). Asbestos is VERY, VERY bad stuff.
Now, let's deconstruct, shell we?

ONE asbestos fiber...if ingested in the lung can (and will) produce cancer

False. Not everyone who has ingested asbestos gets cancer from it.

A study conducted on Finnish asbestos workers who either worked construction for ten years or worked in shipyards for one year showed that 22% of the workers showed signs of asbestosis development. If one examines the entire population of a country instead of just those at high risk, Asbestosis is a relatively uncommon disease
Asbestosis (http://medicine.creighton.edu/forpatients/Asbestosis/Asbestosis.html)

This fiber can sit in your lung for 10-20 years before it happens

This is sorta true. The fiber stays in your lungs forever. Asbestosis starts to occur 10-20 years after exposure. Again, these exposures are typically of a large volume over a long period of time. Think construction workers, shipbuilders, automotive worker and the like.

I do not think Paintbattler belongs to any of these groups.

in can happen overnight too

This is just plain stupid. does anyone know of a single case where a person went to bed and woke up the next day to find out that they got cancer overnight? This is so stupid it's comical.

Asbestos is VERY, VERY bad stuff.

Again, not true. It's really very good for brake pads and what not. I have changed hundreds, if not thousands of brake pads in my many years and have yet to contract asbestosis.

Absolutely positively stay as far away from airborn asbestos as you can.

This is probably the only one hundred percent true statement he made.

TheTramp

01-05-2005, 11:16 AM

TheTramp

01-05-2005, 11:18 AM

Anyway, rest assured PAint, you do not have asbestos poisoning.

This at least is good helpful info.

Hasty8

01-05-2005, 11:30 AM

I guess Sugerbaker’s work is meaningless then. Segerra’s as well? Too bad I guess Lancet and the AMJ will publish anything.

You’re the one arguing semantics with the “small amount” vs. “one.”

Whatever you win I have no time to get everything ever posted on the web. Go play in asbestos you should be fine. Enjoy.

Post links Tramp. Time and again, I post a fact, I provide the link. I could pull names out of my keister as well but without links they are worthless.

Hasty8

01-05-2005, 11:36 AM

I guess Sugerbaker’s work is meaningless then. Segerra’s as well? Too bad I guess Lancet and the AMJ will publish anything.

You’re the one arguing semantics with the “small amount” vs. “one.”

Whatever you win I have no time to get everything ever posted on the web. Go play in asbestos you should be fine. Enjoy.

Sorry if I find a vast difference between one fiber, as Tuna states, the hundreds of thousands of fibers one would suck down if exposed for a few weeks as the ALA (American Lung Association) says.

brianlojeck

01-05-2005, 11:41 AM

Tuna is correct one fiber can cause mesothelioma. One.

keep in mind this guy makes his living sueing companies for asbestos related matters, and is a member of the same profession that has made it possible for me to sue McDonalds for selling me food I asked them to sell me.

The same profession that believes you can be on video committing a crime, and still be innocent

I'm not saying he's wrong, but I'm not gonna say he's right either...

Hasty8

01-05-2005, 11:45 AM

keep in mind this guy makes his living sueing companies for asbestos related matters, and is a member of the same profession that has made it possible for me to sue McDonalds for selling me food I asked them to sell me.

The same profession that believes you can be on video committing a crime, and still be innocent

I'm not saying he's wrong, but I'm not gonna say he's right either...

I have essentially been raised by attorneys.

Civil, criminal, commercial, corporate, trademark....

And I can say that you can always tell when an attorney is lying by checking to see if their lips are moving.

Mango

01-05-2005, 11:52 AM

I do know that asbestos is definetly NOT alive.

Hasty8

01-05-2005, 11:55 AM

I do know that asbestos is definetly NOT alive.

Thank you Mango. As always, your input is both insightful and unique.

01-05-2005, 12:00 PM

What are the chances I have it?

Dude,
your fine, we work with the stuff at work all the time, well the contractors do the actual "work."

I wouldnt be suprised if your school or other large older buildings you have been in have asbestos. More than likley the building you were in had trace amounts in the floor and celling tile as well as the mastic. You didnt sand down the floor remodel the place? :D

ONE asbestos fiber, smaller than than the human eye can see, if ingested in the lung can (and will) produce cancer.

If that were true it would be one of the most dangerous minerals on the planet, and there would be allot more casses of cancer.

Thordic

01-05-2005, 12:28 PM

Its not really surprising a lawyer would try to inflate the dangers of asbestos. After all, lawyers have made millions off of asbestos.

There are three types of asbestos:

Chrysotile or white asbestos comes mainly from Canada.
Amosite, or brown asbestos, comes from southern Africa.
Crocidolite, or blue asbestos, comes from Australia and southern Africa.

"White" asbestos makes up roughly 90% of the asbestos that was used in the US. Most of the other 10% is "Blue" asbestos, I believe.

In any case, "white" asbestos is MUCH less harmful than "blue" asbestos. So 90% of the asbestos in the country, while not harmless, is MUCH less likely to lead to cancer / long-term health issues than the remaining 10%.

So odds are, even if you are exposed to asbestos, you have a 9 in 10 chance of it being the much less harmful kind.

Thordic

01-05-2005, 12:34 PM

And a lawyer is impartial about asbestos, especially when his firm does asbestos litigation?

Baron & Budd Announces $6.4 Million Verdict for Family of Cleveland Asbestos Victim (http://www.baronandbudd.com/NEWS_RELEASE_112103.html)

Manhattan Jury Awards $47 Million Asbestos Verdict (http://www.nylawyer.com/news/03/03/032703e.html)

San Francisco Jury Awards $33.7 Million To Former Navy Electrician (http://www.braytonlaw.com/news/verdicts/2002todak.htm)

And lastly...

$250 Million Asbestos Verdict Awarded Against U.S. Steel (http://www.zmf.com/lawyerswkly_010504.html)

And we are supposed to believe you as an impartial bystander presenting unbiased views here? Seems like there is good money in asbestos litigation. How much does your firm get? 30%? 50%?

I might as go ask Bill Gates whether Windows or UNIX would be a better choice for an operating system.

TheTramp

01-05-2005, 01:55 PM

Post links Tramp. Time and again, I post a fact, I provide the link. I could pull names out of my keister as well but without links they are worthless.

Out of my keister, right. Do your own homework if you care so much.

And I can say that you can always tell when an attorney is lying by checking to see if their lips are moving.

You're just a tool. Or perhaps another Shartly but even more offensive and nasty. Just what we need.

Like I said, play in friable asbestos for all I care.

Just do keep in mind, you really seem to be falling into the trap that all lawyers are bad and all lawsuits are frivolous.

Lohman446

01-05-2005, 01:57 PM

My general feelings on Asbestos - and no I don't have the links to back them.

Asbestos is a dangerous material - if it were as dangerous as some of the lawyers would have you beleive its a miracle that anyone in America is alive, considering its widespread use on a variety of applications.

01-05-2005, 02:26 PM

Baron & Budd Announces $6.4 Million Verdict for Family of Cleveland Asbestos Victim (http://www.baronandbudd.com/NEWS_RELEASE_112103.html)
Manhattan Jury Awards $47 Million Asbestos Verdict (http://www.nylawyer.com/news/03/03/032703e.html)
San Francisco Jury Awards $33.7 Million To Former Navy Electrician (http://www.braytonlaw.com/news/verdicts/2002todak.htm)
$250 Million Asbestos Verdict Awarded Against U.S. Steel (http://www.zmf.com/lawyerswkly_010504.html)

Civil law and hard science are to completly different topics. Go see what NIOSH says about occupational exposure to asbestos....

Thordic

01-05-2005, 02:30 PM

I only posted those links to show why The Tramp would be biased in his viewpoints on asbestos, since he said he works for a firm that does asbestos litigation. Edited my post to make it more clear.

I don't think its anywhere near as dangerous as lawyers and some others make it out to be. Science tends to back up my viewpoint.

01-05-2005, 03:15 PM

Science tends to back up my viewpoint.

True,
Most of these cases are really old or the company refused to implamnet the new safety regs. I beleive there is still a case aganist a subsid of haliburton that is still in court from the 70's. So just because the case was settled today doesnt mean the event occured recently.

Python14

01-05-2005, 03:41 PM

So what are exactly are we arguing over?

How much asbestos can the human body take before it dies? :rolleyes:

Anyone wanna test?

Moral of the post: Yall are being children. Don't mess with Asbestos....simple as that.

Seriously....yall are almost as bad as PBN.

cphilip

01-05-2005, 04:02 PM

There is one rare cancer that is caused by Asbestos exposure. My older Sister died from this a couple of years back. Mesothelioma. It has a very long latency period. She never worked with it at all. It is suspected that she was exposed due to demolition and reconstrucion in a adjoining building that she worked in. Apparently the Asbestos removal was not done to specification allowing dust to exscape the work area over into the area she resided in. This was done at a large Airforce Base in Tampa Florda where she worked as a civil servant for SOCOM Command. She was diagnosed with it and later one lung was removed. However before she could start Chemotherapy it was found to have spread from the one to the other and then into the plural cavity. From the time of diagnosis and symptoms onset until she died was about one year. Which is fairly quick for this normaly slow spreading cancer. Some of you may recall that I spent 6 months down there helping my Brother in Law nurse her until she died.

http://www.mesotheliomaweb.org/mesothelioma.htm

Again.. not everyone is suseptable to Mesothelioma but only a few fibers can trigger it in a person suseptable to develop it.

Unfortunately many buildings were designed for it as a primary fire protection. So that removing it can make that building suseptable to fires. If its not friable and can be sealed and encapsulated, its best to do that. And when needed it must be professionaly removed and it is buried in a lined landfill. It is a mined mineral. So from wence it came it returns.

There are also many forms of non friable Asbestos. Things like Asbestos tiles and sidings. It was also impregnated into caulking. All these forms are farily stable and do not aerosol easily and are fairly safe if not dry sanded or disturbed by scraping.

The most dangerous of course is the ones that become airborne particles. So they can be breathed in. Like the fluffy spray one that is commonly used to coat beams and panels. Most often this can be sprayed over with epoxy to encapsulate it until such time as it might be removed. But often its not practicle nor safe to remove it and not redesign the fire protection of the building. There is no replacement that works as well. And many times it was figured into the building plans so its dangerous to remove it.

HoppysMag

01-05-2005, 04:06 PM

cphilip

01-05-2005, 04:07 PM

If that were true it would be one of the most dangerous minerals on the planet, and there would be allot more casses of cancer.

It is true... if your one of the people suseptable to forming Mesothelioma. But no one knows how to tell a suseptable person from an non suseptable one. It's not understood. The cancer itself is rare. But... its ownly known cause is Asbestos.

cphilip

01-05-2005, 04:11 PM

many public buildings still have asbestos tiles. there is asbestos all over the place, and in the end when all the money hungry lawyers and stupid people are done, we will see its not that big of a deal if we make a few changes.

What we have learned from the days of going in and wildly trying to get it all out is that we exposed people to more danger. Since those days we have adopted a more resonable approach which includes identification and labeling, encapsulation, and only removal when needed or when renovation or demolition demands it. Its best sealed and left alone until it's more favorable time to remove it. If it's encapulated and left alone it can do more good than harm.

paintbattler

01-05-2005, 05:55 PM

drg

01-05-2005, 05:57 PM

Everyone hates lawyers until they need the services of one. Then they're your best friend.

HoppysMag

01-05-2005, 06:38 PM

Everyone hates lawyers until they need the services of one. Then they're your best friend.
no no, i hate them all, all the time. the last lawyer i had to deal with ( who was supposed to be good) pretty much screwed my whole arguement (license suspension) and then tried to charge more than we agreed.

brianlojeck

01-05-2005, 06:54 PM

Everyone hates lawyers until they need the services of one. Then they're your best friend.

You could say the same thing about urinals.

Jack_Dubious

01-05-2005, 07:02 PM

"Listen! And understand! That asbestos is out there. It can't be bargained with! It can't be reasoned with! It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"

JDub

Tunaman

01-05-2005, 07:07 PM

Can you please post the link where you picked up this tiny gem? :rofl:

You do realize that there are aceptable levels of asbestos based on time being exposed, right.

What was it Thordic said about stupid people?

[skooling of Tuna]

I had to add more insult just becuase this really was just about the stupidest thing I ever heard.

What is Asbestosis? (http://www.mesothelioma-asbestosis.info/Asbestosis)

Now, please re-read that last paragraph Tuna.

An you think that just one amphibole is enough? :rofl: :dance: :tard:

And it does not happen overnight you simpleton. It takes a very long time for asbestosis to surface due to the process of the destruction of the macrophages and the resulting scaring of the alveolus.

You seriously should check your facts before you open your mouth.

What you just posted is akin to yelling "Fire" in a crowded theatre simply becuase you see a bit of smoke. :cuss:
[/skooling of Tuna]You should go back to school and learn how to read and do research...before you open YOUR MOUTH: :tard:
Causes of Mesothelioma
Mesothelioma is nearly always related to Asbestos exposure. Asbestos is an extremely dangerous material and low exposure levels can trigger Mesothelioma. This means that even family members of asbestos workers are at risk because of the asbestos fibers brought into the home on their clothing.

Scientists have known about asbestos's carcinogenic (cancer-causing) properties since the 1930's, but asbestos was a cheap insulator and fire-proofing material. Corporations continued to put workers and their families at risk for decades after its lethality was discovered

HoppysMag

01-05-2005, 07:08 PM

You could say the same thing about urinals.
i <3 urinals. seriously. greatest invention known to man

drg

01-05-2005, 07:38 PM

no no, i hate them all, all the time. the last lawyer i had to deal with ( who was supposed to be good) pretty much screwed my whole arguement (license suspension) and then tried to charge more than we agreed.

Bah, license suspension. Kids ...

By the way people hate paintballers too because they shoot babies and homeless people in the face.

Willystyle21

01-05-2005, 09:43 PM

All I know is that asbestos smells REALLY good when you snort it.............

Glickman

01-06-2005, 12:26 AM

PyRo

01-06-2005, 09:57 AM

Let's be serious here Pyro. Are you actually saying that a single asbestos thread could cause cancer overnight?

Negative.
A small amount COULD cause cancer eventually however, no?
Or a huge amount could cause complications in a short period of time, no?

Hasty8

01-06-2005, 02:31 PM

Thanks guys. I don't know if this makes any difference in it or what, but all the walls were like torn apart and there was nasty stuff still on the ground. It basically looked like a tsunami went through there. From what I remember, there was insulation hanging down and I am pretty sure that I touched some of it...This is not good is it?

No, that is not good.

While not wanting to cause panic I would see if there are any tests for it. Keep in mind that Cphil is right. The only cnacer cause directly by asbestosis is mesothelima and only 22% of those with asbestosis get mesothelima.

My point, all along, was that Tuna was...well, rather stupid to say that as little as one one amphibole (asbestos fiber) could cause cancer "overnight". That's what he said.

This is dangerous and stupid. Like I said, akin to yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater becuase you see smoke. It's dangerous and stupid.

Hasty8

01-06-2005, 02:33 PM

Negative.
A small amount COULD cause cancer eventually however, no?
Or a huge amount could cause complications in a short period of time, no?

10 years. It takes ten years to develop symptoms of fibrosis. And that's provided you are exposed to significant amounts over an extended period of time (typically a few weeks).

Doesn't much cound like what Paintbattler did.

Hasty8

01-06-2005, 03:03 PM

You should go back to school and learn how to read and do research...before you open YOUR MOUTH: :tard:
Causes of Mesothelioma
Mesothelioma is nearly always related to Asbestos exposure. Asbestos is an extremely dangerous material and low exposure levels can trigger Mesothelioma. This means that even family members of asbestos workers are at risk because of the asbestos fibers brought into the home on their clothing.

Scientists have known about asbestos's carcinogenic (cancer-causing) properties since the 1930's, but asbestos was a cheap insulator and fire-proofing material. Corporations continued to put workers and their families at risk for decades after its lethality was discovered

Tuna, you did not address a single comment in my original post.

Yeah, here we go again. I love it when people are just too stupid to shut up.

The National Cancer Institute says:

Nearly everyone is exposed to asbestos at some time during their life. However, most people do not become ill from their exposure. People who become ill from asbestos are usually those who are exposed to it on a regular basis, most often in a job where they work directly with the material or through substantial environmental contact.

Does that explain it enough for you or do you need me to draw a map?

Yes, a small exposure could, theoretically, result in mesothelima, however, the likelyhood is so small as to be infinitesimal. That being said, let me again go back to the National Cancer Institute who says:

Asbestos is so widely used that the entire population has been exposed to some degree. Air, drinking water, and a variety of consumer products all may contain small amounts of asbestos. In addition, asbestos fibers are released into the environment from natural deposits in the earth and as a result of wear and deterioration of asbestos products. Disease is unlikely to result from a single, high-level exposure, or from a short period of exposure to lower levels of asbestos.

I guess that sorta destroys your whole "one fiber cuases cancer overnight" claim.

So, with that in mind let me ask you this. Would it perhaps have been a bit more prudent to tell Paintbattler that while a small exposure could lead to health risks the likelyhood is that he is fine but a check up would be a good idea or do you still think that it was appropriate to tell him that a single asbestos fiber could cause cancer overnight?

As for you wholly irrelevant comment about the corporations continued use of it. So what? Automobiles are inherrantly dangerous yet we still use them. Same with airplanes, lamps, computers, cell phones and even paintball guns.

What do you what Tuna? For us all to have to live in our own little hermetically-sealed plastic bubbles? :rofl:

Risk is assumed in a great many things that we do. It is not the corporations jobs to ensure our health. That is one of the few things that the government should concern itself with. I cannot comment on whether or not the corporations hid the facts from their workers in the past but that is a moot argument today.

Fact remains. Your wild rantings were wholly inappropriate and clearly wrong. If disease is unlikely from a single, high-level exposure then I am pretty willing to be that Paint is cool.

Still Paint, if you wish the following tests will help determine if you have asbestos

Individuals who have been exposed (or suspect they have been exposed) to asbestos fibers on the job or at home via a family contact should inform their physician of their exposure history and any symptoms. Asbestos fibers can be measured in urine, feces, mucus, or material rinsed out of the lungs. A thorough physical examination, including a chest x-ray and lung function tests, may be recommended. It is important to note that chest x-rays cannot detect asbestos fibers in the lungs, but they can help identify any lung changes resulting from asbestos exposure. Interpretation of the chest x-ray may require the help of a specialist who is experienced in reading x-rays for asbestos-related diseases. Other tests also may be necessary.

As noted earlier, the symptoms of asbestos-related diseases may not become apparent for many decades after exposure. If any of the following symptoms develop, a physical examination should be scheduled without delay:

* Shortness of breath;

* A cough or a change in cough pattern;

* Blood in the sputum (fluid) coughed up from the lungs;

* Pain in the chest or abdomen;

* Difficulty in swallowing or prolonged hoarseness; and/or

* Significant weight loss.

All these tidbits of truth and more await you at NCI Asbestos Q&A (http://cis.nci.nih.gov/fact/3_21.htm)

PyRo

01-06-2005, 03:41 PM

10 years. It takes ten years to develop symptoms of fibrosis. And that's provided you are exposed to significant amounts over an extended period of time (typically a few weeks).

Doesn't much cound like what Paintbattler did.
Did I ever say anything about what paintbattler getting cancer tommorrow?
I bet if you snort lines of asbestos you arn't going to be feeling to good the next day either :)

Hasty8

01-06-2005, 04:24 PM

Did I ever say anything about what paintbattler getting cancer tommorrow?
I bet if you snort lines of asbestos you arn't going to be feeling to good the next day either :)

I never said you did. I was criticizing Tuna for clearly implying that Paint could get it overnight from a single fiber and when you jumped in trying to support Tuna's claims I jumped on you too.

Don't like it? Then be careful of who you defend and how you defend them.

nippinout

01-06-2005, 04:29 PM

Don't eat asbestos.

Hasty8

01-06-2005, 04:33 PM

Negative.
A small amount COULD cause cancer eventually however, no?
Or a huge amount could cause complications in a short period of time, no?

And to be completely clear, no, is it not liekly at all that a huge amount experienced over a small period of time could cause adverse effects. The National Cacner Institute has already nullified this belief via numerous studies.

OysterBoy

01-06-2005, 04:44 PM

Don't eat asbestos.

Good advice.

paintbattler

01-06-2005, 08:38 PM

HoppysMag

01-06-2005, 08:44 PM

Well, I don't think i do have asbestos. When I went into this asbestos hell hole, it was about 3 months ago. I am sure me or my friends would have some symptoms. I did, however, have nosebleeds 2-3 times a day for about a week, but this was 2 weeks ago. I dont think they are related, but other than that, I have no symptoms what-so-ever.
i walked into a pipe in the northhampton insane asylum ( also shut down and asbestos) and i got a breath of something. dust or whatever. and iv yet to die. im sure your fine.

nippinout

01-06-2005, 09:11 PM

Honestly, the only time I worry about asbestos is if there is a bear that is wielding an asbestos ray gun is trying to attack me.

HoppysMag

01-06-2005, 09:27 PM

Honestly, the only time I worry about asbestos is if there is a bear that is wielding an asbestos ray gun is trying to attack me.

tremble before his awsome might!

paintbattler

01-06-2005, 09:32 PM

Don't eat asbestos.

Honestly, the only time I worry about asbestos is if there is a bear that is wielding an asbestos ray gun is trying to attack me.
Honestly, I'm tired of your jokes. I am trying to figure out what is up with asbestos and your clogging up my thread.

nippinout

01-06-2005, 09:38 PM

Wouldn't YOU be scared of a bear toting an asbestos ray gun about to attack you?

Google asbestos and MSDS.

paintbattler

01-07-2005, 09:05 PM

The "ray gun" equipped with asbestos is a fictional weapon and is irrelevant to this topic. Bears do not have the knowledge of triggering the gun. Please reply with respectable replies.
:shooting:

OysterBoy

01-07-2005, 09:09 PM

HoppysMag

01-07-2005, 09:55 PM

bears also lack the oposable thumb nessisary to hold said ray gun.

OysterBoy

01-07-2005, 10:03 PM

bears also lack the oposable thumb nessisary to hold said ray gun.

You'd think. And yet..

Glickman

01-07-2005, 11:39 PM

The "ray gun" equipped with asbestos is a fictional weapon and is irrelevant to this topic. Bears do not have the knowledge of triggering the gun. Please reply with respectable replies.
:shooting:

what about the doctor?

they are paid for that kind of stuff..

while we are just misc people who play paintball (the most of us atleast)

if you dont know any, i could recommend some
http://www.brielent.com/Images/Badges/beardoctor.gif

maglover728

01-08-2005, 09:31 AM

So, for all this work and worry, the place wasn't even haunted? what a crock! :mad: