Gun cant keep up.

[Virem]

OK i got 6 shims in my ULT xvalve with lvl 10 and it fires well when im shooting slow to medium... but when i try to shoot my fastest the gun chufs and doesnt seem to be able to keep up.. i dont think im short stroking cause of my trigger stops. I know my fixed 850 psi tank is only putting out 750 psi cause i checked at the store, could that be the problem? If i put in anymore shims the gun doesnt shoot.

[SpitFire1299]

Recommended input is 600-800 psi says the RTP rail, so i dont think thats it.

[SlartyBartFast]

What loader are you using?

If you're chuffing you're pinching balls which means the balls aren't loading fast enough....

[Carbon Blue]

OK i got 6 shims in my ULT xvalve with lvl 10 and it fires well when im shooting slow to medium... but when i try to shoot my fastest the gun chufs and doesnt seem to be able to keep up.. i dont think im short stroking cause of my trigger stops. I know my fixed 850 psi tank is only putting out 750 psi cause i checked at the store, could that be the problem? If i put in anymore shims the gun doesnt shoot.

hmmmm are u sure your pulling all the way?

[darthp]

I have a logic vert frame with the trigger stops and it did the same thing untill I backed off one of the stops on it. I didn't think I was short stroking it but I was. Now it works perfect. :clap:

[Virem]

I am dry firing... when i said chuffing i didnt mean pinching the balls i meant its making that same sound... I am not sure if i am short stroking... i might be, i also have a logic frame

[darthp]

the logic frame is awsome once you get it tuned right. Try backing off both the trigger stops and go from there. More than likely its the bottom stop, but theres a good starting place. let me know how that works.

[Virem]

I did try moving the back stop around at diffrent places it didnt really help

[darthp]

did you try the trigger rod stop and do you know if your sear is the right lenght. Also on my gun if I loosen the field strip screw I can make it go full auto. Also make sure you have the frame screw and the field strip screw torqued about the same. When I first got my frame I tightend the front frame screw too tight and it caused it bolt to stick. Some small things to try. Hope they help.

[Asym]

Its not recharging fully. If you shoot slow it works fine, if you shoot fast it starts chuffing. Part of the issue could be your input pressure, the higher the input the faster it will recharge. Valves work with 600 PSI but when you use the ULT its a much smaller hole to recharge the dump chamber, the faster you shoot the faster it needs to recharge.

A few people have done tests with different input pressures. Most agree the higher your input the faster your valve will recharge.

Another thing could be you need a few more shims in the ULT. Adding shims is like using a shorter on/off pin. The shorter the pin the less it has to be moved to open the on/off to recharge the dump chamber. If it opens sooner from being shorter it gives it more time to recharge.

So quick fixes could be more shims or borrow a tank with a higher input pressure.

[Andrew Cunje]

i had alot of problems with my xvalve because its a gas hog, my tank would put out 740 above 2500 and then would just die and put out about 650 psi afterwords....

my gun would not work properly and was slow - medium....

the gun woudl stop shooting at about 1400 psi on my gauge cause the input pressure was to low


my tank comes back from centerflag tommorow with a new spring kit install for a 1k psi output! :headbang:

[Virem]

So quick fixes could be more shims or borrow a tank with a higher input pressure.

If i put in anymore shims the gun stops shooting... Its either me short stroking or the imput pressure...

[Yabb0]

try making the screw on the trigger longer... "take apart the grip and the trigger should have a screw on it. give it a turn or a half a turn and see if that fixs it" i dont use trigger stops. i mod my guns to use the safty on and fire with the safty pull. if i have problems on the field i can turn off the safty and recharge the valve " when i short stroke it" some times when im tuning my trigger it short strokes untill i get it set right.

[Virem]

Is short stroking caused more by not pulling the trigger all the way back? or not letting it go all the way forward more... I dont get how i could be short stroking I shoot autocockers just fine :p

[Alpha]

If i put in anymore shims the gun stops shooting... Its either me short stroking or the imput pressure...


I had the same problem. And if you take away a shim it leaks, right?

Shoot it fast with the hopper off. Then when it stops shooting, stick your finger in the chamber and push the bolt back. Trigger should click and you'll be able to shoot again.

Sounds more like random bolt sticking.

YOu got the shortest spring in your LX? Basicly the bolt isn't going back to the fully seated position and the trigger goes dead on you. When it happens, use a stick squeegie (or your finger) to push the bolt back until it clicks. This problem is made worse by the ULT kit.. It means the smallest bit of sear plate is catching ont he bolt and makes it prone to the bolt not catching. Install a longer bolt spring, or try a stock on/off and see if that doesn't do anything.

ULT was a mass of problems for me, but once you get it to work in conjunction with teh LX, its sweet.. Today I just got my mag to rapidfire.

Which carrier are you using? Switch to a higher carrier until it leaks, then go down one carrier. When it starts leaking again, shoot the gun a few hundred times (dry firing of course). This will wear in the O-ring. throw a dab of oil on there too.

[Virem]

Was talking about ULT shims... not lvl 10 shims

[Alpha]

ULT and Level 10 shims are one in the same. Lx's are just twice the thickness..

Anyways, your problem is exactly what I had for the last month (automagitis). I made my last post out of a printout that my local proshop wrote up for me when they helped me fix it.

[Virem]

My bolt isnt sticking... and im not having problems with my level 10, how is it the same? my gun wont fire if i add anymore shims to my ULT... to make it more reactive, to try to make its recharge rate faster, so that the gun can keep up.

[Virem]

I think i was reading your post wrong... i am so confused :wow: .. i think im using the cut spring... in my lvl 10

[Alpha]

If the gun won't fire, then its not in the ULT, its probably the bolt sticking. When teh bolt sticks, it doesn't go back all the way. Shot your gun real fast, adn when it refuses to fire when you pull the trigger, stick your finger in the chamber and push teh bolt back, or put a stick squeegie through the barrel, and push it all the way into the barrel until you hear a click.

If you get that click, that means its your bolt sticking.

Do you have the 3 springs that your bolt came with? Take one off your LEvel 10, and lay all the springs out.

Use the medium sized one, and fire it fast. IF that doesn't work, try the longest one..

If that doesn't work, I still have another solution. Just try to use a onger spring first.


The problem isn't in the ULT. Don't mess with the ULT yet. I made teh same mistake of doing that and screwed my gun up even more.

[Virem]

It dont have enough time to push the bolt back when you think it sticks... it just goes halfway and then goes back and i can shoot it fine after without pushing it back.

[Alpha]

OKay.. That means its taking a while for the pressure to increase and push it back.. Tell me, is your tank all teh way full? Is it under 1000PSI? Sometimes the gauges wont read right. When I go below 1000PSI on my tank, my gun does the same thing. It was doign it abotu a half hour when I was practicing snap shooting..


If the tank is over 1000PSI, can you find out the input pressure? Did you say it was 750.. I read that somewhere today.

So I dont relaly think its the bolt spring anymore. Sounds more like a carrier issue maybe.. Switch to a higher carrier. Each carrier is marked with lines and some of them have dots.. 2 lines adn 1 dot would be 2 1/2. 3 lines and no dots would just be 3. Switch up one size higher, adn see if that helps. Keep going higher and higher until it just leaks when you put the air in.

Then, switch down one carrier. IF it still leaks, try shooting it a few times. If the shoottign doesn't make it stop, then hold the trigger. If it stops, then the leak is still in your powertube area. Switch down oen carrier, and if that STILL leaks, then just keep shooting it a few hundred times.

[Asym]

It doesn't sound like a LX problem though Alpha. And if you start switching carriers when it is tuned in just right it can add more headaches. I had my LX tuned just fine but to make sure I went and tried the next bigger carrier and it leaked. To get it to stop leaking I had to move down another 2 carrier sizes from the original one it was tned with because the oring size changed from removing it with the banjo bolt.

[Virem]

I dont think its a lvl 10 problem either (unless its the spring) What i dont understand is why the gun stops shooting at 7 shims in my ULT and shoots fine with 6 shims... more shims is supposed to make it have more reactivity

[Asym]

Stops shooting how, with 7 shims?

Normally if you get too many shims in, when you shoot and hold down the trigger you'll hear it leaking. The on/off isn't sealing because there are too many shims making the pin seem longer and not allowing it to seal.

[yakitori]

you need to adjust your top set screw on your logic frame. It has to be very fine tuned. Set your ULT w/ about 3 shims. Then air up the gun, and back off the top set screw. then you will need to turn the set screw in toward your trigger rod while pulling the trigger many times along the way. The trigger will become stiffer as you reach correct point w/ that set screw. Then go very slow from there until you find that spot where it still reacts, but doesnt short stroke so easily.

Do all of this after you have fine tuned your LVL 10.

[Virem]

OK so i got a chance to address all the possible problems people have gone over.

- the lvl 10 springs : i tried the other springs and the other 2 springs made it worse
- me short stroking: i shot it making sure i went all the way back and all the way forward, if i did that fast the bolt would only go half way
- tank flow problems effecting recharge : i shaved my normal RT on/off pin enough to make the gun go full auto, and it did

I really dont know what the problem is, It has to be something with the ULT

[nippinout]

Check your trigger rod. There should be a very small gap between the end of the rod and the back of the trigger. Small enough of a gap so something like a matchbook cover could fit in there.

Do you know what fps you are shooting at? Try turning your velocity adjuster up. Try swapping back to a non LX spring.

Or shoot slower.

[darthp]

Did you try backing off the top set screw that adjusts the contact between the trigger and the sear rod. Also have you checked that the front frame screw is not to tight. The frame screw will cause wierd bolt stick issues is it is to tight.

[Virem]

There is a small gap between the trigger rod and the trigger, the screws arnt too tight, plus it doesnt seem to be bolt stick, i am not shooting that fast, maybe 7 BPS and it can start screwing up... (if i wanted to shoot 7 bps i woulda kept my classic valve)

[Andrew Cunje]

higher outputs = higher speeds, i had teh same probelms, but i just got my tank back, if u look ein this forum, u will see my thread with the video to the new tank installed...i will be posting a new video 2mmorrow of acutal paint cycling though the gun

http://www.cunje.com/CunjeXmag.wmv

i had the same problem u are describing this just fixed it

1000 psi output now and very little bounce