Electronic marker idea for AGD

[Miscue]

I don't know if the E-Blade mounts to a mag easily or not, but I figure it could be.

Change the rail, or whatever it takes so that these electronic frames can bolt on. Let other companies be able to slap on their frame and sell it as their own markers. Give National Paintball Supply something they can sell.

Or just simply allow for people to buy a new "RTP" and be able to put on an E-Blade themselves.

[teufelhunden]

*chuckle*

:)

[jewie27]

I don't know if the E-Blade mounts to a mag easily or not, but I figure it could be.

Change the rail, or whatever it takes so that these electronic frames can bolt on. Let other companies be able to slap on their frame and sell it as their own markers. Give National Paintball Supply something they can sell.

Or just simply allow for people to buy a new "RTP" and be able to put on an E-Blade themselves.



AGD does not copy other companies. They are smarter than that. Instead they engineer their very own ingenious products. It would be a disgrace to "slap on an E-Blade"


Plus WGP and AGD don't mix; I wouldn't buy anything that's even barely related to a Autocrapper.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Ahem *cough* CeterFlag HyperFrames w/ ULT *cough*

[Miscue]

Ahem *cough* CeterFlag HyperFrames w/ ULT *cough*

I like the E-Blade better. :D

The reason I was thinking of WGP... is because they're good at selling/marketing stuff. My main idea was... getting others to sell it for you.

Notice anything missing in here?
http://www.centerflagproducts.com/products.html

Notice stuff here?
http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/BrowseCatalog-Start;sid=TRZkB-D7E2BlL6EazPGkr-pdRTuhznv5I4U=?CategoryName=paintball-gun-parts-and-upgrades-autococker-gun-upgrades-autococker-trigger-frames-and-parts-worr-blade-autococker-trigger-frames
http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/BrowseCatalog-Start;sid=TRZkB-D7E2BlL6EazPGkr-pdRTuhznv5I4U=?CategoryName=paintball-gun-parts-and-upgrades-autococker-gun-upgrades-autococker-trigger-frames-and-parts-eclipse-autococker-trigger-frames

The EBlade is something most everyone is familiar with - and has a future... unlike the Hyperframe. IMHO, the EBlade is way better than the Hyperframe for many reasons.

This solves multiple problems for AGD:
They don't have to make a new gun and invest R&D - except for the new parts to make the frame bolt on.

They don't have to sell it themselves as an electronic gun - avoiding the legal stuff.

Other people will have an incentive to sell the marker as their own... kinda like how cockers were with 10,000 flavors.

All AGD would need to do is make the conversion parts - and then pump out the body of the week.

[personman]

Wow.. that's awesome.. why haven't I thought of that before? :headbang:

[paintballrulzs]

GENIUS! GENIUS! GENIUS!

Anyone know what movie that is from :) :) :) and a banana :dance:

[Chronobreak]

:cough agg mag

checkout the thread..werent they using an e-blade for testing purposes?

[Miscue]

AGD does not copy other companies. They are smarter than that. Instead they engineer their very own ingenious products. It would be a disgrace to "slap on an E-Blade"


Plus WGP and AGD don't mix; I wouldn't buy anything that's even barely related to a Autocrapper.

Who cares. If ingenious sold - AGD would be #1.

[Miscue]

:cough agg mag

checkout the thread..werent they using an e-blade for testing purposes?

Yes. Although that marker is different from what I'm talking about.

<img src="http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=76614&stc=1">

[Chronobreak]

yeah i get what your saying and a GOOD e-frame would do mags a great justice...


im not too familiar with e-blades..is there room for a noid and all the things needed to make an e-mag?

[Miscue]

Imagine you take that frame - get a Karta Body with no-holes rail. That gun would look pimp, be small, be fast, have a nice trigger, and have good software.

Any Photochoppers around? :D

[PBX Ronin 23]

You're aboslutely on the money Miscue. BTW, who is that bald-headed guy with the cool t-shirt.

[Miscue]

You're aboslutely on the money Miscue. BTW, who is that bald-headed guy with the cool t-shirt.

I dunno... maybe some paintball model. :D

[jewie27]

Who cares. If ingenious sold - AGD would be #1.

it's all about advertising, that is why. AGD never does any huge marketing campaigns... They barely attented any major tournaments.



That's why everyone and their mom shoots a cocker. cuz WGP says, "closed bolts are more accurate".................. Everyone fell for that bullcrap and bought 'cockers.

[steveg]

OH DEAR :confused: would someone please remind me why my Hyperframe that I've
had, and used without fault or flaw, for the last 4 years is such a terrible product again? :rolleyes:

[jekyll]

That's why everyone and their mom shoots a cocker. cuz WGP says, "closed bolts are more accurate".................. Everyone fell for that bullcrap and bought 'cockers.

I can't say I know a single autococker owner that thinks their gun is more accurate than anyone elses because it is closed bolt. Most of them that I know, myself included, bought cockers because they like to tinker.

[Miscue]

it's all about advertising, that is why. AGD never does any huge marketing campaigns... They barely attented any major tournaments.



That's why everyone and their mom shoots a cocker. cuz WGP says, "closed bolts are more accurate".................. Everyone fell for that bullcrap and bought 'cockers.

That's my whole point! Ride on those coattails!

[Miscue]

OH DEAR :confused: would someone please remind me why my Hyperframe that I've
had, and used without fault or flaw, for the last 4 years is such a terrible product again? :rolleyes:

Nobody said it was. It's a good product - I used to own one as well.

[zackzel]

I think this is an awsome idea and could revive the mags to the paintball world again. Dont' get me wrong I think it would be better if AGD could make their own E-frame but I don't see that happening anytime soon so this may be the way to go.

[Miscue]

I think this is an awsome idea and could revive the mags to the paintball world again. Dont' get me wrong I think it would be better if AGD could make their own E-frame but I don't see that happening anytime soon so this may be the way to go.

I agree, I would much rather see AGD come up with their own. But I think that's cost prohibitive - and it doesn't solve the legal stuff. And, I think it would be a good idea to give other companies a reason to sell their own version of AGD stuff. KAPP Cocker, DYE Cocker, Dark Cocker... etc. If you can do something like this -> you do not need a marketing department. All you have to do is supply parts and let them handle the rest.

I think of it this way: There's nothing that says you gotta get Ford/Chevy/Toyota/etc. to make their own turbochargers for their cars. Let the aftermarket guys do it -> they can spend more time working on that one part, and make it better than you could. And, you still make money off the initial sale - you're not losing because someone else sells parts for it.

[Glickman]

I can't say I know a single autococker owner that thinks their gun is more accurate than anyone elses because it is closed bolt. Most of them that I know, myself included, bought cockers because they like to tinker.

second that :D



sounds like a great idea to me, thats on of the reasons i havent invested in a mag yet..
electronic frame (atleast none i think are decent)

how much are e1 blades? 200 now? id take that to be able to shoot like an x-mag :clap:

[PBX Ronin 23]

BTW, does anyone know why CenterFlag stopped making the HyperFrames?

[Miscue]

BTW, does anyone know why CenterFlag stopped making the HyperFrames?

If I were to guess... because it wasn't profittable. :D But, don't know for sure.

[PBX Ronin 23]

If that was the case, then why would others follow in their footsteps?

[teufelhunden]

Because the Hyperframe was a $50 Spyder frame that cost $400, for starters.

[Boski51]

These are the kind of posts that I hope ADG reads. We are the market, the profit, the salesmen, the players. The underlying point of this thread and website is that we all love our mags but want "something more". If ADG is smart-and I think they are, they will meet that need. If they don't, they will go out of business and others will take over filling the needs of the consumer.

It is really that simple. The secret of any business success is finding a need and meeting it at the highest possible profit point that the consumers will pay.

My 2 cents.

[msprince]

it's all about advertising, that is why. AGD never does any huge marketing campaigns... They barely attented any major tournaments.



That's why everyone and their mom shoots a cocker. cuz WGP says, "closed bolts are more accurate".................. Everyone fell for that bullcrap and bought 'cockers.

The only bullcrap I hear is what is coming out of your mouth. :nono:
people buy cockers because they are a great gun, also for the same reason people buy a mag, because its a good product. :rofl:

[Miscue]

The only bullcrap I hear is what is coming out of your mouth. :nono:
people buy cockers because they are a great gun, also for the same reason people buy a mag, because its a good product. :rofl:

Warning: Don't Flame.

Jewie: Don't respond or I'll ban you too. :p

[jon-boy]

Regarding that picture above with the ebladed "mag"... if you check out that thread, the only thing mag about that marker is the body (and rail?). Tom himself got on that thread and asked why it could be called a mag. It doesn't even use a mag valve.
Just clarifying.

My $.02- I'd definitely buy an e-frame that was more affordable/reliable. I know the hyperframe works, but it's a little pricey for me. $150 would be a little more in my price range.

[Miscue]

Regarding that picture above with the ebladed "mag"... if you check out that thread, the only thing mag about that marker is the body. Tom himself got on that thread and asked why it could be called a mag. It doesn't even use a mag valve.
Just clarifying.

My $.02- I'd definitely buy an e-frame that was more affordable/reliable. I know the hyperframe works, but it's a little pricey for me. $150 would be a little more in my price range.

Yeah, it's not a "Mag" anymore. But the frame fits on the rail - and you'd think there should be a way to rig it to the marker - while it still works as a Mag.

[jon-boy]

Isn't it just a matter of fitting the solenoid to the on/off? I don't know why they didn't stick with a mag valve.

[Evil1]

That would definitely be an awesome move if an e blade could be easily bolted on to a mag. I have never been a cocker fan, b ut they are good guns. I'm not here to flame cockers. The e blade was one of the best things that ever happened to a cocker and if you could put one on a mag it would definitely rejuvenate more interest in mags across the board.

[rkjunior303]

Yeah, it's not a "Mag" anymore. But the frame fits on the rail - and you'd think there should be a way to rig it to the marker - while it still works as a Mag.


why not, ya know? people have modded mechanical cocker frames to work -- why not the eblade

[GT]

Maybe some of you smart guys can esplain something to me. Centerflag, booyaah, etc chew up bolts like mad. however the emag doesnt have those same issues. There is something about the selnoid pushing directly on the sear that causes this issue. Honestly I think it sucks and have yet to see anyone actually design, emag aside, a eframe worth a crap for the mag. Maybe Devil's den can, but given that they are using lvl7.....

Honestly all the emag needs is a software update, :)

with all the ULE crap you can get an emag to around 2.5 lbs. So we people start whinning about the emag I assume its either an asthetics issue or thefact we dont get ramping software.

I like this eblade idea alot.

[B.A.M.]

[QUOTE=Miscue]I like the E-Blade better. :D

[QUOTE]
I just shot one of those on my friends gun and it is awsome.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Of course its not a MAG valve. It's an mQ-Valve. We are going to be platforming this thing on Mag Spec bodies so that Mag users have another available mod at their disposal.

Can a better and cheaper frame similar to the HyperFrame be made? Of course. We've already looked at this a long time ago. But the prevailing problem is if you're going to make it and sell it legitemately, you'd have to get a license from either SP or now, WDP.

Is there enough of a market demand for it to justify the cost of legally making these frames? This is the biggest question of all on this thread.

But what if someone who already has an existing license decides to undertake the development of an E-frame that uses the Mag valve. What they would look at is the economic viability of doing so. The answer to this question is perhaps something that none of us on this thread care to hear.

BTW, it's not as simple as strapping on a 'noid onto the on/off. It, at the very least, is a bit more complex than that.

[Miscue]

Maybe some of you smart guys can esplain something to me. Centerflag, booyaah, etc chew up bolts like mad. however the emag doesnt have those same issues. There is something about the selnoid pushing directly on the sear that causes this issue. Honestly I think it sucks and have yet to see anyone actually design, emag aside, a eframe worth a crap for the mag. Maybe Devil's den can, but given that they are using lvl7.....

Honestly all the emag needs is a software update, :)

with all the ULE crap you can get an emag to around 2.5 lbs. So we people start whinning about the emag I assume its either an asthetics issue or thefact we dont get ramping software.

I like this eblade idea alot.

I agree about the software update. However, an E-Blade allows those guys concentrate on the software updates if any. And, the last E-Blade I used had a nice subtle ramp to it that I think is perfect to begin with.

What an E-Blade additionally solves is: AGD doesn't officially make an electronic marker. It takes the battery off - looks better, removes weight. AGD doesn't have to develop a new marker and just has to figure out how to slap that frame on to existing products. I don't think it's an extra step for people selling E-Bladed markers... to sell AGD E-Bladed markers... getting other people to sell their own variants.

AGD has a new viable marker. Not much R&D. Other companies can worry about marketing.

[Miscue]

But what if someone who already has an existing license decides to undertake the development of an E-frame that uses the Mag valve. What they would look at is the economic viability of doing so. The answer to this question is perhaps something that none of us on this thread care to hear.

BTW, it's not as simple as strapping on a 'noid onto the on/off. It, at the very least, is a bit more complex than that.

Bingo.

[GT]

AGD has a new viable marker. Not much R&D. Other companies can worry about marketing.


totally agree,
someone post this in the eclipse forum on pbn and send jack wood an email, with a link here.

[bballe336]

well its very simple to put an e spyder frame on except that they are painfully slow. right now i am in the process of putting a timmy frame with spyder sear tripper and pred board on my micromag. if only it was easier :(

[PBX Ronin 23]

Jack and Flash and the rest of those guys at Planet probably won't touch it. If they believed in the viability of it, they would have done it a long time ago.

[Kevmaster]

q....

its a great idea. the cocker frames bolt onto the mag easily as their hole spacing is the same. yeah, you'd just need to make a custom rail that was made to accept the sear of the e-blade and have that actuate the sear of the 'mag. i dunno if thats possible...but if it is, someone should do it.

thats a fantastic idea :)

[Target Practice]

Unless something is done to eliminate the battery pack, The Emag cannot be marketed/sold in any EFFECTIVE way. By the time AGD designed a frame that ran on a nine volt, that didn't have a mech mode, and with software that people would actually want (which has already been shot down), they would have a frame IDENTICAL to the Eblade, but with bugs that would need to be worked out.


OT: You know, I'd take a valve that was consistent and heavy over a valve that was inconsistant and light. Down with the Xvalves!

[PBX Ronin 23]

The position of the sear tripper noids on cocker e-frame are not geometrically compatible with the Mag. For a Mag, the design would be similar to the HyperFrame but I believe that I can be doen better and still retain its bolt-on characteristics.

[slade]

Thats a great idea. its sort of like the spyder frame modded to a mag, but that never caught on because spyder frames suck. i can shoot my ult better than my friends spyder. if AGD or a dealer made a rail to fit an E-blade to a mag, and could make the sear/noid interface work without too much moding, this will become very widespread and could cause a surge in overall mag popularity. now we just have to find someone to try this idea out ;)

[minimag03]

It would be worth a try. All AGD would need Eblade and a will to make it work.

But, If I have to spend $300 on a frame to make my special mag work, then why don't I just get E-mag lowers?

-minimag03

[Miscue]

It would be worth a try. All AGD would need Eblade and a will to make it work.

But, If I have to spend $300 on a frame to make my special mag work, then why don't I just get E-mag lowers?

-minimag03

Many reasons. The EMag is or will be out of production. An E-Blade wouldn't need a big battery - this battery makes it appear to be heavy and isn't as cool. Also, the EBlade has better software... and IMO, a way better trigger. It also looks better. It has already been accepted as 'good' within the paintball community. People already owning an E-Blade could take it off their marker and put it on an AGD marker, w/o having to buy a whole new gun.

[Chronobreak]

uhm...

a ccoekr frame wil fit directly on a mag imho

its getting it to work thats gonna be a prob....cockers and amgs are totoaly diff....there would be no "hot swappable" e-frame for both guns

[teufelhunden]

What about integrating a frame into a rail? Then it would be easier to deal with the sear matching issue, no?

[minimag03]

Many reasons. The EMag is or will be out of production. An E-Blade wouldn't need a big battery - this battery makes it appear to be heavy and isn't as cool. Also, the EBlade has better software... and IMO, a way better trigger. It also looks better. It has already been accepted as 'good' within the paintball community. People already owning an E-Blade could take it off their marker and put it on an AGD marker, w/o having to buy a whole new gun.

I see you point now. Instead of me putting the frame on ourself, why can't AGD make a deal like WGP did? It would also be cheaper because the part AGD would not need, they wouldn't buy. Plus they would be buying in bulk so that would bring the cost down more.

-minimag03

[Muzikman]

If that was the case, then why would others follow in their footsteps?


What Miscue is getting at is to make a stock E-Blade fit on a mag, not try and make a new "mag specific frame" like the Hyper frame is.

[PBX Ronin 23]

The geometry really won't work reliably.

[Eric Cartman]

I think there's a demand for a nice e frame for mags. The Hyper frame was certainly not thebest looking frame, but I understand that with the new board and the ULT it ripped, however they don't seem to be available anymore.

I think it's a good idea Miscue.

[GT]

lets jump ahead a few steps. an e frame is what 400 bucks? lets be honest, how many people are willing to drop 8-900 bucks for an electronic mag?

[personman]

I really dont think a mag frame would be anywhere near $400.
The eblade is that expensive because it has to operate 2 solenoids, IMO. Knock off the solenoid valve and the extra compenents/software/hardware needed to operate/mount it and you knock off $150+.. I would think..

[msprince]

Okay, it's kind of like this....
Just like in the comics Marvel and DC on a regular basis are HUGE rivals always trying to have the better product, the better sales, the better "Heroes", flaming each other, and being pretty much arch enemies, but occasionally they decide to work together on a crossover comic Superman vs. Wolverine or something like it. The sales usually skyrocket because in essence you are getting the best of both worlds.
Why wouldn't it be feasible for a "one-time" special issue marker be able to be made where WGP, AGD, and Eclipse get together to make the perfect crossover marker? It could be called the Peacemaker or something similar . LOL! But really if they worked together it could happen and I can guarantee you it would knock the industry for a loop!

Steph Prince(ss)
MXS AD (Staff Writer)
BlackCat Staff Writer
"The Cookie Lady"
Co-Captain Battle Born

PS you have to excuse my husbands inflammatory remarks from earlier he is a lover of all markers and hates it when people call anyone's products crap.

[Target Practice]

PS you have to excuse my husbands inflammatory remarks from earlier he is a lover of all markers and hates it when people call anyone's products crap.

http://www.rolleyes.com

[RRfireblade]

Theory is sound,application is not. As stated the layout of the E-Blade internally is completely wrong for the Mag.It would require a complete internal redesign.Also,IMO the E-Blade niod doesn't have the strength to reliably trip the Mag sear.You'd definately have to add the ULT which=more cost and more un-reliability based on the inconsistant nature of the ULT.

And don't forget, the E2 retails for around $450,maybe less without adding the cocking niod but still,hardly a bargin for a bolt together Emag.

[JoshK]

Imagine you take that frame - get a Karta Body with no-holes rail. That gun would look pimp, be small, be fast, have a nice trigger, and have good software.

Any Photochoppers around? :D


Hehe...i did it...it may be alittle unproportional (i couldnt find any pictures of whole guns with the new 05 kartas..) and its sloppy since i didnt take too much time to do it...but anyways...here it is.

[phantomhitman]

lets jump ahead a few steps. an e frame is what 400 bucks? lets be honest, how many people are willing to drop 8-900 bucks for an electronic mag?

i spent that much....but that is a nutty agd lover

anyways, if you guys use eblades if would have to be e2s. e1 are horrendous battery eaters. i know the you can go get rechargable batteries but that is even more money. I would be interested in this also, but you gotta get a video of this in action. This frame would cost alot considering the stock e2s are around $450 plus a ult kit. interesting, but not many people would go for this. they would rather buy an emag, to each their own?!

[GT]

Maybe we should try our hat with racegun. I am willing to bet they maybe less reluctant to the idea.

[Athius]

What AGD should do is put an LPR where the HPR is in the valve and put the hpr as the foregrip. This will lower the pressure of the marker and more efficient because man the thing that pissed me off about my classic mag is that from 800-1000PSI i couldnt shoot.

Hell maybe a new generation of the automag valve, with a lowered pressure and much more efficient.


But and eblade on a mag?? I would love to have one.

[Enemy]

Race is more open minded to the idea I believe but they have allot of trouble getting out just cocker frames my team mates have had them do everything from forget the eyes to sending out a mistimed cocker!! To forgetting to give back the ball detents! But in reality e conversions for mags are amazingly easy especially with ult! GT the bolts were getting tore up because the solenoids weren’t big enough! They had to use a special on/off and when the length of that on/off was wrong it chewed up the bolt, but ult makes the trigger stroke shorter and lighter so that’s why you are seeing more use of frames like hypers and the devil mag! Really it wouldn’t be too hard for rogue, coolhand or even pbx to make their own frames for mags but because the frames would be only mag specific they have a hard time justifying the expense especially pbx!! But this is plausible, perhaps running a plunger style solenoid set high in the frame and sear with a shorter bottom half? I don’t know I haven’t seen the internals of an eblade frame just yet so I would have to look at it. But for the time being I think GA Devil has an amazing frame and the spyder conversion isn’t a bad idea as long as the chips get replaced as well. What’s the going rate for a Predator 2 board or the e2 board? All you need is an empty frame with the solenoid in the right orientation and position! forgot to add that im totally loving this idea and if i can i will check out the races around here and see what problems may be there so we can figure out some cheap solutions!

[PBX Ronin 23]

What it comes down to is whether the people who may or may not do an e-frame has an existing license.

The small guys that thinks no one would care at the volumes that they're doing will maybe wake up one day and see a five figure legal bill......that would be fun wouldn't it.

[hitech]

BTW, does anyone know why CenterFlag stopped making the HyperFrames?

IIRC, Tom insinuated that is was because of the SP patent. However, I don't think he actually said that was the reason. So, it may have only been part of the reason. Call Dennis Ashley at Centerflag. He is an old school paintball guy and loves to talk about paintball. He can be hard to get a hold of, but I'd bet he would answer the question.

:cheers:

[nippinout]

Raceframe would be a better platform.

It uses standard 45 grips, and isn't so power hungry on the solenoid.

[11_Mile_TMaster]

What AGD should do is put an LPR where the HPR is in the valve and put the hpr as the foregrip. This will lower the pressure of the marker and more efficient because man the thing that pissed me off about my classic mag is that from 800-1000PSI i couldnt shoot.

Hell maybe a new generation of the automag valve, with a lowered pressure and much more efficient.


But and eblade on a mag?? I would love to have one.

... What good would an LPR do? A Mag doesn't need one.

Mags, at least from my understanding of them, actually could run more efficient on higher pressures, anyway. Later tonight I get to do some pressure calculations on operating pressure for a dump chamber design and will get back to you with some theoretical numbers that may help shed some light on all of this.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Later tonight I get to do some pressure calculations on operating pressure for a dump chamber design and will get back to you with some theoretical numbers that may help shed some light on all of this.We'll be anxiously waiting. ;)

[nippinout]

... What good would an LPR do? A Mag doesn't need one.

Mags, at least from my understanding of them, actually could run more efficient on higher pressures, anyway. Later tonight I get to do some pressure calculations on operating pressure for a dump chamber design and will get back to you with some theoretical numbers that may help shed some light on all of this.

The problem with the mag and its efficiency is it's open time. The ball is out the barrel in 3ms. Any air dumping beyond that is just venting to atmosphere.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Yup, anything beyond 3-4.5mS is WASTED.

[nippinout]

We'll be anxiously waiting. ;)

If you haven't seen this before:

A 3gram paintball going 300fps has 111.005 in-lb of energy.

Assume:
3gram paintball
300fps velocity

Units:
3gram = .003kg
300ft = 91.44m
1 joule = 8.8507457 inch pound

Paintball kinetic energy:
= .5 * (.003kg) * (91.44m/s)^2
= 12.542J
= 111.005in-lb

Multiply your dump chamber volume by its pressure and you get its potential energy. But you have to remember that you aren't going to get 100% of that to the ball. You have loss from driving the bolt forward, the spring pushing back, heat, etc... And remember our friend Boyle.

[ScatterPlot]

Race is more open minded to the idea I believe but they have allot of trouble getting out just cocker frames my team mates have had them do everything from forget the eyes to sending out a mistimed cocker!! To forgetting to give back the ball detents! But in reality e conversions for mags are amazingly easy especially with ult! GT the bolts were getting tore up because the solenoids weren’t big enough! They had to use a special on/off and when the length of that on/off was wrong it chewed up the bolt, but ult makes the trigger stroke shorter and lighter so that’s why you are seeing more use of frames like hypers and the devil mag! Really it wouldn’t be too hard for rogue, coolhand or even pbx to make their own frames for mags but because the frames would be only mag specific they have a hard time justifying the expense especially pbx!! But this is plausible, perhaps running a plunger style solenoid set high in the frame and sear with a shorter bottom half? I don’t know I haven’t seen the internals of an eblade frame just yet so I would have to look at it. But for the time being I think GA Devil has an amazing frame and the spyder conversion isn’t a bad idea as long as the chips get replaced as well. What’s the going rate for a Predator 2 board or the e2 board? All you need is an empty frame with the solenoid in the right orientation and position! forgot to add that im totally loving this idea and if i can i will check out the races around here and see what problems may be there so we can figure out some cheap solutions!


OK You use one more exclamation mark and I'm gonna have to :shooting:

[hitech]

The problem with the mag and its efficiency is it's open time. The ball is out the barrel in 3ms. Any air dumping beyond that is just venting to atmosphere.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

:hail: :hail: :hail:

:cheers:

[SlartyBartFast]

Well, personally I fail to see the difference of having an LPR instead of a battery pack.

Then of course there's the whole legal/patent crapfest. :rolleyes:

But does anyone have a link to somewhere that shows the E-blade and raceframe internals?

I have previously found a small cylynder/actuator that could easily be placed inside a Mag grip and pull on the base of sear assembly or simply be used instead of the solenoid. Should be able to get it to work even without ULT. Could be made to operate in E-mode or mech much like the E-Mag too. Heck, if someone wanted to tinker, you could probably get the existing Emag setup to operate a solenoid valve and the small air cylinder instead of the big electric solenoid.

Surely if there was really enough interest, some licencing agreement that involved a reasonable payment per frame sold could be arranged between a small producer and race frame or E-blade manufacturers. Of course the design would have to be as close to their design as possible so that their patents would fully cover the new frame and not infringe on other patents.

[SlartyBartFast]

The problem with the mag and its efficiency is it's open time. The ball is out the barrel in 3ms. Any air dumping beyond that is just venting to atmosphere.

Now we're veering off-topic but,

How much longer than necessary is the Mag valve open? Anyone do the calculations for the open time? With different bolt return springs?

But isn't the Mag efficiency problem not one of how much energy is used each shot but instead really a problem of how 'deep' a Mag can use a tank (the minimum pressure required to shoot)?

[ScatterPlot]

Heh, I'm JK.

But seriously; there is one thing you guys haven't thought of yet. Now I don't know the ins and outs of an Eblade, but if I'm correct in assuming all the stuff I don't know for sure then it has a full electronic three-way valve in there. You guys have been trying to think of some way to get rid of this part and add a way for the existing solenoid in the top actuate the sear of the mag. Why don't you do this-
Make the mag simply be a bit taller. Make either a thicker rail or an add-on rail that contains a pneumatic cylinder in it that actuates the sear. It seems to me that this solenoid is less powerful and less power-consuming than the sear tripping solenoid. This could all fit EASILY within a one inch block, and could probably be made to fit in something just barely longer than the sear arm itself. That's what, like barely more than like a half inch or so? Simply disconnect the power to the main solenoid, and the thing becomes waaaay less power hungry.



OOOhhhh, I just realized something. Would this violate the PTP patent on pneumatic triggers?

[MindJob]

Ahem *cough* CeterFlag HyperFrames w/ ULT *cough*


Yeah that cough is catchy...

*cough* CeterFlag HyperFrames w/ ULT *cough*


See, now I got it. Thanks Mel.

[ScatterPlot]

***Crap, there were like three posts between my first two. Slarty, you hit right at what I was talking about.

[hitech]

Now we're veering off-topic but,

How much longer than necessary is the Mag valve open? Anyone do the calculations for the open time? With different bolt return springs?

But isn't the Mag efficiency problem not one of how much energy is used each shot but instead really a problem of how 'deep' a Mag can use a tank (the minimum pressure required to shoot)?

Don't know, except that it is too long. Given that everything else is the same shooting "deeper" into the tank will yeild more shots per tank. I can get down to about 500 psi or so on my eMag. I think the air wasted with the bolt open is much greater than the amount contained in a few hundred psi. But I don't have any numbers.

[SlartyBartFast]

OOOhhhh, I just realized something. Would this violate the PTP patent on pneumatic triggers?

Sounds like you're thinking along the lines of Punisher's pneumatic Mag.

But I may be too. Don't think I ever saw a picture of Punisher's internals.

And doesn't his work predate the PTP patent? Surely talk of it certainly does....

Time to start searching the archives of rec.sport.paintball folks. ;)

I was discussing electronic trigger, making the shocker go full auto, and all kinds of stuff like that back in 90/91/92.