PBX E-Frame for Mag Valve [Archive] - Automags.Org Online Forums

Chronobreak

01-09-2005, 05:09 PM

yes as long as the following.

Good frame(current frame talk sounds good)

easy echange to swap no custom work needed ifso it be fast and not very$)

if the frame cost less than $350..otherwise i may be rethinking my opinion.

i do have the $ on hand etc but btw its really ahrd to say at this point since i havent even seen a vid of it. just random speculation and rumors.

is it true this thing could cycle over 40 bps? think soemthing about the cockers going around 40 cps and the mags being even faster..unles i heard wrong.

also does ti really have to be 1k to make it worth while to mag users? a few hundred might not even be a prob but...1,000 imho alot in teh mag community.

i think this mod has GREAT potential for pbx as well as mag users.PLEASE DO IT

although on a compeltely diff side of things just think of the ultimate marker you could make with this mod. :headbang:

looking forward to seeing these :D

--edit with teh current pneu frame being months to eyars to ..w/e only choice we currently have is devilmag ...btw im not to keen on them.

also the whole supermech idea sounds like a waste......what better way to platform this
mq-valve?
is there another gun that is lighter,smaller,more compact etc than a mag?...didnt think so.

oh and my karta told me to tell you that it wants the mq-valve too ;)

--edited for spelling and added more info

PBX Ronin 23

01-09-2005, 05:25 PM

This frame is different from the one that will use the mQ. The frame we're conceptualizing here is one where all the necessary things to actuate the sear are in place.

Will Wood

01-09-2005, 05:31 PM

I think you might have tought trouble selling 1,000 of the frames... to current owners.

HOWEVER, I beleive that if you built something like this, it would possibly inspire more people to get a mag.

Still, 1,000 seems a bit high for such a type of product. ALOT of people have already invested over 100 for a vert frame. It seems mag owners don't go through new markers, they go throughg new frames :dance: . I think that a product with the credibility of the E-Frame could help out the mag image alot. I would love to have the feel of such a marker, but have the guts of a mag. I think 500 would be a more realistic number that could be done.

I personaly, would love to see something like this since I just bought a mech mag... but am iching for something more since I have this after owning a E-Mag. But my problem is - MONEY. I need a new car. ETC. Everyone would want to have this, of course the biggest problem is money.

edit first question is void from your post.

*What is the estimted price?

I think it could be done.. if it's not too expensive and easy to do.

Chronobreak

01-09-2005, 05:31 PM

AHH! i was unaware of just an e-frame concept...

price range pcis?

seriosuly cant giv any info..gonna be hard pressed to get peopel willing to pay then...

so basicly like a hyperframe only nicer?

Mr. Mouse

01-09-2005, 05:49 PM

make the frame, give us a video w/ spec's, and if enough people are pleased im sure they'll preorder em :)

kylemc

01-09-2005, 05:50 PM

make one and get some pics or a vid of it working
then set your price and get back with us

WenULiVeUdiE

01-09-2005, 06:04 PM

You may be able to sell alot to local players. I have seen a steady rise in mag users in the past couple of years. If the word spreads, you could sell them.

I'd buy one in an instant, but I just got a Logic frame for Christmas. If you need someone to test one, I'll do it ;)

Eric Cartman

01-09-2005, 06:12 PM

Certainly interested, but will need some more details. Approximate price, looks, available in vert / 45 degree etc. What sort of board would be used? Possible to mod an existing intelliframe (or any other frmaes for that metter) to accept the electronics & solenoid etc.

Put out a quality product at a competitive price and I believe there'd be a market for it.

Level 10 is all I need, but many other will want to know if the board will support eyes.

PBX Ronin 23

01-09-2005, 06:16 PM

If we do go ahead with it, it would be able to support both reflective or beam break.

shatter_storm

01-09-2005, 07:19 PM

Interested, but I've gotta wait until you can give me more information. Do I need to send the marker in, or is it a Bolt-on mod? Reliable? Price range? how's it look? (is it going to be heinous like the hyperframe?) power source? single LED/LCD/buzzer/other feedback device? time to market?

If you can bring something to the market that is available (unlike the hyperframe/mako/booya are now), is decently priced (emag lowers are still $300-$400), nice enough to want to use, and maybe is available in a y-grip or similar frame, then I'm most certainly interested in it. If it's going to be ugly, or let me down on the field, or cost more than the 'mag I'm putting it onto, then nope, not interested. I'll wait for something else or I'll build it myself.

Rift

01-09-2005, 07:22 PM

Id most likely get it if it was a bolt on similar to the e-blade very simple instilation and it came with eyes. Altho if it came with eyes would you not have to do milling to the body? What kind of functions would the frame have and how high would the price be? Forgot to add that for me it would have to be a 45*

FreakBaller12

01-09-2005, 07:43 PM

I would prepay if:
price wasn't high(cheaper than eblade)
it was easily walkable
available in 45 and 90(I prefer 90)
uses a 9v or something other than emag battery shape.
Drop in, or like somebody said, like the eblade.
Easily customisable not too confusing, like emag frame is good.
took .45 or 90 grips
had a lcd screen

or at least most of these :p ;)

RRfireblade

01-09-2005, 08:08 PM

1000 frames?

You realize AGD only ever sold around 2000 Emags......ever? :D

My guess is think in terms of 1-200 max. ;)

soccer4minimags

01-09-2005, 08:45 PM

What valves would be required to support this. ULT equipped x valves, regular x's, retros or old style rt pro valves, Classic's?

ubooze

01-09-2005, 08:49 PM

JoshK

01-09-2005, 08:58 PM

I would be interested...but I am getting a logic frame hopfully...and it would be cool if we could either do a trade in program (like xvalves) or you could install it into our existing frames. Plus all the other stuff people said.

MindJob

01-09-2005, 09:24 PM

Mel...

Good luck with it. If you come up with somethign good, Im in.

Just dont get everyone's hopes up. :headbang:

FireITup14

01-09-2005, 09:45 PM

i know many will not see looks as a big matter but personally i would hope to see the frame a little bit sleeker and more beautiful then the hyperframe. Make it so it can use stickys or somthing.

ToTalChaos

01-09-2005, 09:47 PM

A bolt on addition I would most definately be interested in, price is of course a factor.
Lvl 10 is all I want/need, so eyes are a moot point. Eyes would complicate a simple install....

A definate maybe...

phantomhitman

01-09-2005, 09:56 PM

i agree with everyone else here, 1000 is way overboard. i have already purchased a devilmag but you also have my attention. all i need is a video of this thing in action and im in.

Enemy

01-10-2005, 02:06 AM

I put pre pay and that is all dependant on the software and all that jazzy stuff but pbx does make awesome stuff so im sure it will be great!!

SpecialBlend2786

01-10-2005, 02:57 AM

i'd get one, depending on the price and software. Eyes is a plus!

xXHavokXx

01-10-2005, 03:26 AM

Ronin,

I've been waiting to buy my mag until it could compete with my angels. It just needs to be super fast, have eyes, and be quality. I trust the AGD part will be top notch and you seem to be making out quality stuff as well so I'm praying you guys do this, do it right and support yourselves and return AGD to its high pedestal.

Seeing the mQ, mag stuff gives me hope......Ohhh look into making it not ugly like the hyperframe, it definately looks like it belongs on a spyder. "sample" wdp stuff, their stuff is pure sex...

SpecialBlend2786

01-10-2005, 04:10 AM

Ronin,

Ohhh look into making it not ugly like the hyperframe, it definately looks like it belongs on a spyder. "sample" wdp stuff, their stuff is pure sex...

YES PLEASE

pump

01-10-2005, 05:14 AM

what is it gonna fit on classic mags?

if it uses those timmy style tirggers it sounds fun

expsnsive but fun

PBX Ronin 23

01-10-2005, 02:14 PM

What valves would be required to support this. ULT equipped x valves, regular x's, retros or old style rt pro valves, Classic's?The ULT would pose the least problems but we would have to design it to accomodate Mags with out.
Mel...

Good luck with it. If you come up with somethign good, Im in.

Just dont get everyone's hopes up. :headbang:Unfortunately, the only way we would procede with this is if it makes financial sense to do so. That's why we have to conduct this discussion in order for us to get a better grip (no pun intended) on things.
what is it gonna fit on classic mags?

if it uses those timmy style tirggers it sounds fun

expsnsive but funWe like the Timmy trigger geometry. So did the great majority of players we have previously polled.

The Skinny

PBX will come out with the mQ valve that can be platformed on a AGD spec body. Being that there are also many loyal fans of the AIR/RT/X-Valves, we trying to see if it is viable to do a separate frame for them. Is making 1,000 of these frames an "eventuality"?......I don't know.

But your feed back will help us make a determination.

Spartan X

01-10-2005, 02:53 PM

Come on guys your supposed to jusg be saying YES YES YES and leave it at that :D

Chronobreak

01-10-2005, 03:02 PM

come on now honestly.. 1k is alot ex for mags

and if some of the mag users are(like me) waiting for the complete mq-agg mag or w/e thingy then thats even less people.

if you cut the number in half maybe you will ahve some luck..

anyone know how many hyperframes are sold? boohyahs?

btw seems alot of e-frames for mags are popping up. theres one on pbn, yours ,devilmag,few others in works apparently..so that is also possible less marker share for pbx...

the product would have to be superior.

would this also be compat with the mq-valve add on? so one thing we would ahve to purchase if we wanted the agg mag later.

i think the time and $ would be better spent on the agg mag myself ex if 1k is what is about what would be needed to be sold for pbx to make $.

WenULiVeUdiE

01-10-2005, 03:10 PM

btw seems alot of e-frames for mags are popping up. theres one on pbn, yours ,devilmag,few others in works apparently..so that is also possible less marker share for pbx...

But if done correctly, it can open the mag market even more. All these new frames are bringing more people to 'Mags.

bballe336

01-10-2005, 03:54 PM

well here are some things that are a must for it. under 350 bucks. fast comfy and something that has a light trigger and possibly uses boards that are already on the market it laso needs to come with eyes and covers incase the user wants to put eyes in. if you can do all of this i would pay 350 and i would most likely buy 3 or more.

PBX Ronin 23

01-10-2005, 03:57 PM

By putting eyes, I guess people can make their mags more efficient by going back to L7's.

tyrion2323

01-10-2005, 04:03 PM

I have actually been very interested in an Electronic mag lately, and I'd be willing to even put money down for it, say, this summer; however, I'd want to see what's going on with mQ valve.

IF the mQ-valve is released, I'd rather buy an mQ-mag.
IF the mQ-mag is going to be produced, then it remains my top choice.
IF the mQ-mag is not going to be produced, then I would consider an electro-mag.
IF the frame costs more than $200, then I would be hard-pressed to put money down ahead-of-time for it.

I guess things just remain to be seen regarding the mQ valve.

Magaman

01-10-2005, 04:15 PM

I wouldn't count on 1000 as there will be other Mag E-Frames soon... :ninja:

PBX Ronin 23

01-10-2005, 05:29 PM

I wouldn't count on 1000 as there will be other Mag E-Frames soon... :ninja:
So you're telling me that an already small market is going to be pretty crowded soon. If that's the case why bother?

bballe336

01-10-2005, 05:57 PM

i doubt much else will be coming out. just make them if you want.

Conversekidz

01-10-2005, 06:03 PM

So you're telling me that an already small market is going to be pretty crowded soon. If that's the case why bother?

I think what is going to happen is whoever can get to market first with a quality product at a good price will dominate.

TDonovan

01-10-2005, 07:26 PM

It depends how much it costs, and what type/quality the board and frame are. I honestly don't think I NEED eyes unless I start chopping like mad (but I use L10).

If the frame and trigger had a quality build (NOT hyperframe like), but more like AGD intelliframe quality, or I guess even the timmy type like you stated. As long as it looked decent, felt good, and was built right, I'd buy one.

Rift

01-10-2005, 08:28 PM

mark_1791

01-10-2005, 08:45 PM

I think it would be cool if mags got to be like cockers, where just about everyone sells their own variation. It would make the mag community much bigger, and there would be a mag that would fit each person.

So...I think it would be a good idea to base the frame off another popular frame, like say an angel or timmy, because then people could get the trigger feel of that gun without having to pay excess of $1000. I think that would bring the mag a huge popularity burst. The only problem there is of course the lawsuits from those companies. :(
But thats just for having others switch to mags....

As for the trigger for current mag users: high quality (since theyre used to it from AGD), cheap, reliable, and with 90, 45 and Y-grip options. Optional eyes too, for those that are overly obsessed with ball breaks, or would rather use lvl 7 for efficiency.

Note: never used a hyperframe, devilmag, emag, xmag...when it comes to actually USING guns, im a completely new player...seeing as the best gun ive ever used was a custom $700 cocker...

gc82000

01-10-2005, 09:15 PM

I would get it. :headbang:

MindJob

01-11-2005, 09:27 AM

Maybe it would make sense to incorporate the AGD ACE into a e-frame. This way, at least the modifications needed would be kept to a minimum. Eventhough this would probably mean that the frame would be some kind of rail/frame combo.

It would also probably make more sense to base it around the ult trigger. This way it could be powered by a single 9 volt instead of a 18 volt power source.

Magaman

01-11-2005, 04:44 PM

So you're telling me that an already small market is going to be pretty crowded soon. If that's the case why bother?

I'm not saying it will be that crowded, but I wouldn't count on moving that many frames quickly, unless they were $250.00 or less...

Don’t let me discourage you completely... ;)

PBX Ronin 23

01-11-2005, 04:46 PM

Well I just had an in depth discuss with someone and the issue of "is there a really a need for PDS on this frame" if it's going on an LX Mag?

nippinout

01-11-2005, 05:22 PM

Well I just had an in depth discuss with someone and the issue of "is there a really a need for PDS on this frame" if it's going on an LX Mag?

For the insane shooters, yes.

With the LX, you have a delay when the LX anti-chop kicks in.

With ACE, you don't have that chance of happening. The benefits of LX is two-fold. It stops chops and decreases the chances of a barrel break. ACE benefits from the decreased acceleration of the ball. So having an ACE and LX is good. But not necessary either.

With or without ACE, the LX won't chop, but the insane shooters may not like that gap in their firing.

RetroEclipseMan

01-11-2005, 06:42 PM

Honestly, the mag community is pretty small and trying to sell a 1000 frames is gonna be pretty hard, espeically if people are saying they want it to be under $250. I mean when the eblade came out it was over $350 and you still had to have your cocker body tapped for eyes which is still going to have to be done on the ule bodies and I just don't seem to see a lot of people willing to shell out that kind of money when it really comes down to it.

Even if the frame was around $300 by the time you figure in all the other parts you have to get to build one of these "super" mags you're looking at the price for any other electro gun. So if this frame is going to truly successful then it should have something to make it stand apart from all the other guns out there that can shoot 20bps. And the way it is now mags, even with lvl 7 are still less efficient than most guns out today and now with guns like the Freestyle out that is just as small and light and if not lighter and just as easy to maintain I just really don't see what is going to set the mag apart.

I do see this frame having success if you guys can get it out before any of the other frames that are said to be coming out and can be way cheaper and just flat out better. Or maybe selling it as a complete gun that would compete with the '05 bushies that are out would be your guy's best bet.

Sorry for the rant, just need to get that out there.

PBX Ronin 23

01-11-2005, 06:45 PM

Thanks for your comment Retro. Yours and those of the others who have posted on this thread are helping us a great deal in our evaluation.

RetroEclipseMan

01-11-2005, 07:55 PM

Don't get me wrong or anything, I'd love to have an electro mag that wasn't in the form of an e-mag but for what it could possibly cost it just kind of pushed me away from mags. Same thing with the pneumatic frames that have been hyped, a year ago when DW first released that vid of his frame it got me really stoked about mags again, since I hadn't really even thought about paintball in general for like 4 months but the wait has been too long which is why I'm now moving onto the Freestyle after shooting mags exclusively for almost 5 years which is what has happened to a lot of people that used to shoot mags, the wait for a product that would not really put the mag over the top of anything else out there especially since the price would be that of any other mid-higher range electro.

tyrion2323

01-12-2005, 12:49 AM

Ronin,

I suggest that PBX focuses more on evolving the mQ-mag than releasing an electro frame for the existing valves. here are the advantages:

With the mQ-Valve, you'll have:
- better efficiency
- ability to shoot further into tank
- electro-pneumatic operation and adjustability
- lower pressure (some people care about this)
- ability to incorporate Predator II boards, WAS, etc
- extremely fast valve
- inline regulator

Basically, I recommend that you focus on the mQ. I suggest making:
- Upgrade kit for existing mags [including valve and frame] for $450
- Full mQ-mag (name is something different, of course) for $700 fully stocked.
For 700 fully stocked, it would give some stiff competition to the Shocker market out there
and you would be able to separate the product from the "automag" name. Despite their
good features, 'mags will never reclaim their former reputation or glory.

Some features for the mQ-mag should be:

- one-piece body
- integrated air channel
- upgradeability (LPR, board, etc. etc.)
- vision system
- Choice of vert or 45 grip frame

If you're interested in pursuing this, I might be able to help you out with parts, etc. Hit me up at:

email = JL3318@hws.edu
AIM = Kugleman

This is what I realistically see as being the best path for PBX in the 'mag market.

mark_1791

01-12-2005, 08:48 AM

:wow: !!!
What he said

THAT would be REALLY cool...reliability and other mag features thats got eye and its as good as/better than shocker!!! sweeeet...

oh and i personaly dont see why low pressure matters...i mean you can make in lowER, but whats the advantage of making a super-low pressure gun???

GodLovesUgly

01-12-2005, 09:13 AM

If you guys go through with this, I would buy one for s8ure assuming it works well. Thats why I would wait it out for a month or two and wait to see what others says. If people don't have any problems then I would be all over it!!!

ditto!
no need for eyes lvl 10 is good enough. looks matter, but as long as it doesn't look like the hyperframe i'd say you've got that covered.

peewee

01-12-2005, 09:43 AM

I'd want to see a working model vids showing it getting put thru the paces.

PBX Ronin 23

01-12-2005, 11:43 AM

Tyrio2323's point is well taken and we are indeed on that track. The purpose of this thread is for us to get a preliminary sense of what the market wants.

Mag users are some of the most loyal people out there. If it makes financial sense to enter that segment of the market, we'd like to know.

So keep on giving us your thought for they are certainly most appreciated.

bunker17

01-12-2005, 11:57 AM

i think that ic ould probably move some of those frames i know a lot of people that would love to put and electro frame to their classic but 1000 could be a lot.

PBX Ronin 23

01-12-2005, 12:06 PM

1,000 units is what can make sense production wise in order to keep the cost to the end users low enough. If that number cannot be moved, then it doesn't make financial sense to undertake this endeavor.

tyrion2323

01-12-2005, 12:24 PM

That loyalty, PBX, is a great point. I had totally forgotten about it. I believe that if you decide to work only on the mQ-valve, you will actually increase sales. Here is my reasoning:

If you decided to focus all of your funding on mQ, then you will only have to spend time researching one product (well, two - the grip and the valve). By doing this, you will be able to produce your own marker, by itself - say, the PBX Whirlwind.

You could sell and market the Whirlwind by itself, which would give it appeal to the entire tournament and rec communities. By separating it from simply being an "upgraded automag," you will draw in the PBN crowd as well.

Aside from the Whirlwind, you could offer the "whirlwind upgrade kit" for automags, which would allow automags to operate like the whirlwind. Mag owners, I believe, would be happy to see a real, tangible step forward in performance for mags.

Since the Whirlwind would already be in production, the upgrade kit wouldn't siphon off too much money/funding from your primary project, and you would be able to offer the kits for great prices. Simply put, since you would already be making the grip frames and valves for the whirlwind, packaging them up for the 'mag wouldn't be too big of a hassle.

Of couse, then there's the matter of sending me a free whirlwind, but that's easily taken care of ;)

Anyways, I've never produced a marker, so I may be right off, but those are my ideas. They take care of both the 'mag community and the tournament community, and since the 'mag community dominates a lot of scenario play, you're expanding tri-fold your sphere of influence.

tyrion2323

01-13-2005, 11:07 AM

PBX,

If you're pursuing this, I can speak with my sponsor, AIM, about regs, unimounts, feednecks, etc. Perhaps I could broker a deal between you two.

Jacob

spasticsquirrel

01-13-2005, 12:46 PM

i think there should be an option of i would like the mq valve instead.

i would vote for that

tony3

01-13-2005, 01:21 PM

I personally think, just releasing the frame won't do all that good. If you released it with a deadlywind body, single color anno, electro frame, clamping feed, and some kind of foregrip or reg all for 600-800 bucks it would be do pretty good. Then again, you'd need to do some good advertising to get it selling good. If it is feasble price wise get a proto type for the next national tourney and get a booth and see how it goes over with people. I've heard those things are expensive as hell though.

PBX Ronin 23

01-13-2005, 04:36 PM

We're still considering all our options.

tyrion2323

01-13-2005, 05:06 PM

PBX,

Keep us in the loop as much as possible, if you please. I call first in line for one of these!

I was going to buy a shocker, but I'd rather get an mQ.

PBX Ronin 23

01-13-2005, 05:15 PM

Gunga

01-13-2005, 05:20 PM

You will be kept abreast of all information available for public consumption. Would kinda like to photograph this valve for the marketing purposes with some of the currently available hot bodies and rails.

Any suggestions?

Uhm...send me one for a mag and I'll take pictures. :D

Rift

01-13-2005, 05:44 PM

mmm i have a nice Dallara it will go good with maybe i can stop at the shop or field some time :)

Chronobreak

01-13-2005, 06:07 PM

You will be kept abreast of all information available for public consumption. Would kinda like to photograph this valve for the marketing purposes with some of the currently available hot bodies and rails.

Any suggestions?

05 karta.......;). maybe a ule....

something with a nice foregrip like a 15*asa ...NOT THE STOCK bicycle grip

PBX Ronin 23

01-13-2005, 06:35 PM

mmm i have a nice Dallara it will go good with maybe i can stop at the shop or field some time :)

05 karta.......;).

Hear that Nicad? ;)

spasticsquirrel

01-13-2005, 10:28 PM

Hear that Nicad? ;)
who else makes really nice custom bodies for the automag at the moment?

tyrion2323

01-13-2005, 11:31 PM

What about a full Rogue mag setup? Throw the mQ valve in a sleek gloss black all-rogue setup and you've got a nice proto.

Another suggestion is asking Nicad to draw up a few CAD one-piece body sketches en gratis, and then pick the one that you like. I don't know if he's interested in doing it, but perhaps...

Jacob

frop

01-13-2005, 11:41 PM

how about a simplified karta/dallara? DW sells more , which brings down costs for everybody, & mq mags w/ beautiful bodies to boot! Too bad you can't get Heather to make some stellar grips anymore :(

tyrion2323

01-14-2005, 11:47 AM

The only problem with using already-made bodies, such as the Karta, is that the mQ will then look exactly like a 'mag.

People DO NOT want that.

If this thing is going to compete, it needs to be different. It will need a bunch of standard features:

one-piece body w/ integrated air channel as well as full valve coverage
clamping feedneck
LPR
predator II board (etc), vision
Customizable ASA (vert, 15*, inverted)

In order to best prepare this marker for success, we can't look at it from the angle of:
"how can this help my current mag setup?" but instead, "how can we market this to sell like crazy?"

With success, 'mag upgrade kits will come out; however, good luck trying to market and sell an upgraded mag to tournament players.
Something that a lot of people harp on is that tournament players only make up 10% of the total population. Well, I don't really believe that, because a lot of rec players are into tournament style play.

RetroEclipseMan

01-14-2005, 03:01 PM

I would love to seea one piece body on a mag but I think that was the main problem with teh x-mag costing so much.The only thing that made the x-mag cost almost $600 more than a regular emag was the body and the ace, and I think I remember a thread a long time ago saying that even if the ace, and modular breech was taken out of the picture and the body was simplified the body would still cost upwards of $450 to produce. Now if you're looking at that much for just teh body, by the time you toss in a valve(unless the mq valve is going to considerably less to produce over the x-valve), and the frame you're still going to be looking at close to a thousand dollar gun. This is all just just a total estimation of prices of course based on the cost of what's already out there.

Like a few others have said I think it might just be best for you guys to totally ditch the "mag" name and go for something completely different so this product doesn't have any connections to the crappy reputation that the mag has had in the past. I mean if it really doesn't function like a mag and only really uses the body of a mag, I'd just say design a new body and then you'd have a completely new gun that would be cutting edge rather than just an updated version of an old design, even if that old design is tried and trusted. I mean i think the majority of the paintball population just wants to always be shooting something new and cool no matter what it is.

spasticsquirrel

01-14-2005, 03:27 PM

shouldn't this be on the agg mag forum

im just wondering.

PBX Ronin 23

01-14-2005, 04:12 PM

Like a few others have said I think it might just be best for you guys to totally ditch the "mag" name and go for something completely different so this product doesn't have any connections to the crappy reputation that the mag has had in the past. I mean if it really doesn't function like a mag and only really uses the body of a mag, I'd just say design a new body and then you'd have a completely new gun that would be cutting edge rather than just an updated version of an old design, even if that old design is tried and trusted. I mean i think the majority of the paintball population just wants to always be shooting something new and cool no matter what it is.The valve can be plaformed in many different ways. Whether in an entirely new design or on existing ones. We have always kept our options open.

Can our valve use the "Mag" name? We can't and we won't because it isn't an AGD valve. Can we platform it on AGD spec bodies? Absolutely! Our hope is that we can provide the exisitng Mag users with other after-market options. As an extension, promote the Mag as a viable and extremely upgradeable gun to consider for those new to the sport.

As for this thread, we were considering designing an E-Frame for the Mag valves and we're using the input from you guys to help us decide.

warbeak2099

01-14-2005, 04:16 PM

I personally wouldn't even consider it if it was only available in 45* form. I can never go back to a regular 45* lol.

WenULiVeUdiE

01-14-2005, 04:20 PM

Could you make the frame so it could work with either a mag valve or a PBX valve? If someone initially wanted just the electro frame. But then they decided they want the PBX valve. Could you make it so you dont have to buy a new frame, just a new valve and stuff? It would production costs down and would keep the consumers happy.

PBX Ronin 23

01-14-2005, 04:21 PM

hitech

01-14-2005, 04:52 PM

Yes but the problem is that it would be a more expensive proposition to do so.

You you design it with some replaceable parts (i.e. linkages) such that one could "upgrade" the frame to work with the mQ Valve?

PBX Ronin 23

01-14-2005, 05:03 PM

The PBX frame for the mQ will be so much simpler. E-Frame for the Mag will have more parts and be more expensive to produce.

WenULiVeUdiE

01-14-2005, 06:11 PM

You you design it with some replaceable parts (i.e. linkages) such that one could "upgrade" the frame to work with the mQ Valve?

I was thinking of something similar, just could put it into words.

For the mQ, would there only be the board and battery in the frame? If so, I see what you mean about it costing more.

PBX Ronin 23

01-14-2005, 07:29 PM

I was thinking of something similar, just could put it into words.

For the mQ, would there only be the board and battery in the frame? If so, I see what you mean about it costing more.
Yes. The more complexity and parts you put in a design, the higher the cost.

spasticsquirrel

01-14-2005, 08:47 PM

could we like swing by your shop and install it into our existing frames, and by installing it i mean that the customer installes it, and not have to pay extra for another frame?

deadbox101

01-15-2005, 06:40 PM

could u put the guts into a logic frame and i could slap the mqvalve on and start shootin?

spasticsquirrel

01-15-2005, 07:13 PM

how about this, could you supply the frame, and i have like a frame and a board and a battery?

i think the answer is no.

PBX Ronin 23

01-16-2005, 09:26 PM

could u put the guts into a logic frame and i could slap the mqvalve on and start shootin?
We're in discussion with someone about that....;) Stay tuned.

the123

01-16-2005, 10:18 PM

I think you should focus your efforts on the Mag mq upgrade. I think this is a better option because it fixes the inefficiency and FSDO that the RT valve is known for. Ballpark price would something like $300? E-frame may not be a profitable direction. If if came came out and worked flawlessly, you'd sell maybe 300.. thats my guess.

PBX Ronin 23

01-16-2005, 10:27 PM

300 what, E-Frames or mQ-E Kits for Mags?

Gijim

01-17-2005, 02:12 AM

I have money sitting in savings, waiting for something to help my mag shoot faster. There are many of us out there that prefer to upgrade our mags rather than settle for cheap electros and don't want to spend $1000 on the better electros. The problem I see is getting the message out to potential buyers outside of AO, where only a small fraction know about it. Advertising for paintball is a tough business.