What is the history of the Pump Mag?

[luke]

Just curious what the history is with the pump Mag?
I don't recall AGD ever selling a pump, was it only offered as a kit?
Is there a schematic of how the pump operates?

[Creative Mayhem]

I'm not exactly sure on the history part.

The valve operates the same way, but relys on bolt stick to work, which is where the Wve spring comes in. It stops the bolt from catching on the sear, causing you to reset it with the pump handle.

[bunkerhugger]

Come to the black cat scenario game in Peoria and I'll be happy to bring you the parts and such so you can see how it works. After a couple of hours you won't be able to stop me from telling you the whole silly pump story too.

[Muzikman]

The pump "kit" came out in 1994. AGD never sold it as a complete gun, but a bolt on kit. I think the downfall of the pump mag is that it's not overy reliable (compared to other pump) and although it has a VERY short and light pump stroke, it really takes some time to get use to. I think they quit selling them in 1997.

Here is a page I started to make years ago and never finished. It shows the internals of a pump mag.

http://pittsburgh-music.com/paintball/guns/pumpmag/

[luke]

I'm not exactly sure on the history part.

The valve operates the same way, but relys on bolt stick to work, which is where the Wve spring comes in. It stops the bolt from catching on the sear, causing you to reset it with the pump handle.

Does it leak down the barrel untill the bolt is reset?


Come to the black cat scenario game in Peoria and I'll be happy to bring you the parts and such so you can see how it works. After a couple of hours you won't be able to stop me from telling you the whole silly pump story too.

I'm not into scenario, do you play any tournaments?

I frequent tournaments at Break Out....

[Muzikman]

Does it leak down the barrel untill the bolt is reset?




If you try and use a level 10 with the pump mag it will leak down the barrel. It will also do the same if you use the wrong sized PT spacer.

If you use the right parts, it does not.

[luke]

Thanks! I'll check it out. :cool:

[luke]

Interesting. By the pictures it looks like “spacer spring things” keep the bolt from resetting after the trigger is pulled; the pump simply resets the bolt manually.

Does the pump rod just ride in a milled channel in the rail and when assembled the body keeps it in place?

How does the pump handle mount?

How smooth is the pump action?

[KayleAGD]

I Have Seen Some Guns Assembled As Pumps. From What I Remember They Were Made To "smuggle" Semi-auto Markers Into Australia..

[50 cal]

I Have Seen Some Guns Assembled As Pumps. From What I Remember They Were Made To "smuggle" Semi-auto Markers Into Australia..

I did that for a guy on the Regulators. They were a team from Australia that played one Masters in Nashville. I believe it was in '97

[Koosh]

If you try and use a level 10 with the pump mag it will leak down the barrel. It will also do the same if you use the wrong sized PT spacer.

If you use the right parts, it does not.

LIAR!!!!

My old pump mag used LX with no problems...

[RKL]

The pump "kit" came out in 1994. AGD never sold it as a complete gun, but a bolt on kit.

Umm, not so. Both a buddy and I purchased PumpMags as complete markers from a local store. The markers may have been special order though. My buddy snagged the first off the display wall. I asked the store to bring one in.

Cheers, eh.

Bob
The Canadian Contingent Paintball Club
Ottawa

[Muzikman]

I have never seen a pump mag actually advertised, just the pump kits. My guess is that it did not come from AGD, but who knows.

Luke: You are right on how it operates. The milled slot in the rail has a slight rise at the end and the pump rod has a little "s" shape bend at the end. When you pull the pump handle back the rod rides up the rise and pushes the bolt back.

The pump arm/hadle attaches using the very adapter hole in the rail. You use the same bolt at a vert adapter and a nut it placed under it. Or you can used the longer bolt and use the vert adapter also.

[luke]

Luke: You are right on how it operates. The milled slot in the rail has a slight rise at the end and the pump rod has a little "s" shape bend at the end. When you pull the pump handle back the rod rides up the rise and pushes the bolt back.

Wow, very simple. :cool:

I didn't see the part where the slot was tapered "up" for the pump rod to raise and lower to clear the bolt so it can operate.

How smooth is the pump operation?

I had a idea (not completely refined) to build a Pump Mag that operated more like a trigger stop that had to be reset after every cycle. Way more complicated than this....

[Big'n slo]

Luke,
check this (http://www.pentestone.com/paintball/MagPump.html) page out.

BTW, the mag pump action is very smooth. But, you have to have your timing down if your trying to rapid-fire.

[luke]

Thanks Big, I'll study it closer this evening, it looks like some good info....

I know nothing about the stock class. Are there rules that state the BOLT must be manually reset for it to qualify as stock?

The design is very simple and effective, but for some reason I'm having a hard time with the idea of the bolt not resetting on its own. I think I'm going to try a new design, one that locks the trigger after the gun is fired, then releases it for one shot after it's "cocked".

What do you think?

[Big'n slo]

From what I've read about stock class rules (very little) The cocking action has to reload the marker. Which I believe is what the AGD pump kit basically does, the bolt is held forward by the wave spring blocking the feed tube and requiring a manual reset for the marker to fire again. I'm no stock class expert but just locking and unlocking the trigger with pump action might not fly, the marker would still essentially be semi-auto if the lock was bypassed.

[luke]

Thanks for all the info guys.
I have a full understanding how they work. :cool:

[Big'n slo]

Thanks for all the info guys.
I have a full understanding how they work. :cool:

Does that mean I get to beta test your new pump design? :D

[Muzikman]

If you want to design something usefull. Figure out how to make a pump mag have an AT.

[luke]

Does that mean I get to beta test your new pump design? :D

If I decide to do something with it sure, but it's just something I've been kicking around, if the trigger stop design won't qualify as a pump, not sure it would be worth the time to develop.

I’ve only played pump once, but I have none playing family members that want to play, but not at the tournament level or style. So, I was thinking pump play would be prefect for camping trips and stuff. Get back to the roots, the hide and seek days. It really sounds like a lot of fun. Speedball is still my favorite, but I would love to set this up for everyone. :cool:

Since I would be the one making the investment in guns they would have to be Mags of course. :D I have too many classic valve parts lying around anyway. (I've had them since before they were Classics. ;) )

If I’m going to spend the time developing it I might as well build something others may be interested in. So I definitely want the design to qualify as stock... ;)


If you want to design something usefull. Figure out how to make a pump mag have an AT.

(?) :confused:

[Muzikman]

AT = Auto Trigger. Allows you to hold the trigger and pump the arm to fire. Instead of pump then pull the trigger.

[Rocp15126]

I still have the original plastic container that I bought my pump kit in. I showed it at a AO meeting at the IAO a couple of years ago. I haven't tried to use mine in pump mode with the LX yet.

[Muzikman]

Hey ya ROCP, haven't seen you around since that IAO, how ya been?

[Rocp15126]

Oh not bad, work and school keep me busy. I've started getting into scenario games. I'll definately be at the IAO this year. If you decide to take any road trips for games let me know, I'll try and make it. I'm also thinking of getting a pgp and sending it to Palmers for some upgrades. :D