A possible solution the HES / 4.X problem?

[Vanced]

A possible solution the HES / 4.X problem?

I was sitting here reading up on the 4.X issues and the causes which seem to be based on the Hall sensor much more than the code which Miscue has pretty much perfected when something dawned on me.

I am a Mechanical/Design Engineer who works with sensors and pneumatics daily building assembly fixtures for an automotive supplier so I know all the logic behind them, and am often faced with an issue of one type of sensor doesn’t work and you have to choose another. But, I am not the shop rat I use to be and don’t know the inner workings of every marker out there anymore so I don’t know if this is being done yet. ((If it isn’t consider this part “prior art” for patent purposes))

But why not simply replace the Hall sensor with a pair of break beam optics or “eyes” that sense when a trigger pull breaks a plane?

I just pulled out my Keyence Vision Systems catalog and compared it some of the E-Mag frame schematics I had laying around and I think this should be something that can easily be retrofitted?

So my questions are: Is this being done out there anywhere currently, and do any of the other mechanically/electronically inclined folk among us deem this a possible solution?

If this is already out there and been proven unfeasible, I am sorry for the waste of bandwidth, but hey I am trying to be a problem solver and not just complain about it.

[jekyll]

i believe raceframes already use break beams. I would assume that other companies don't use it because of patent reasons.

[teufelhunden]

Raceframes use a trigger switch.

Optical triggers have already been used in paintball... just not with Airgun..

[xXHavokXx]

Eblades use optical triggers as well as Newer Angels.

[yakitori]

yup. OPTO trigger is like that.

[Vanced]

Ok,

That answers the question of “If” it is being done, and “If” it is a viable way to actuate a paintball marker.

And raises these questions:

1: Would it solve the current HES issues with the E/X-Mag?
2. Would it be a worth wild solution vs. changing boards, etc., or even the best solution?
3. If it is a viable solution is someone willing to make the code changes if someone is able and willing to do a beam break retrofit? *cough Miscue*
4. Is the process of using beam break optics to actuate a paintball marker patented?
5. If it is patented, who owns it? If multiple markers are using it, it is licensed to them or could be to us?
6. Is the patent still current, or has it expired, and open to all. Is it now something someone could legally use without retribution?

[Muzikman]

Vanced: Can you show me a site with one of these break beam components? I have seen the typical break beam for ball detection, I have seen break beam used in industral applications/ but I am not sure I have seen a system small enough to be used as a trigger sensing unit.

I think the easiest solution is to replace the HES with a normal switch that can be fitted in where the HES is with minimal milling.

[Miscue]

A possible solution the HES / 4.X problem?

I was sitting here reading up on the 4.X issues and the causes which seem to be based on the Hall sensor much more than the code which Miscue has pretty much perfected when something dawned on me.

I am a Mechanical/Design Engineer who works with sensors and pneumatics daily building assembly fixtures for an automotive supplier so I know all the logic behind them, and am often faced with an issue of one type of sensor doesn’t work and you have to choose another. But, I am not the shop rat I use to be and don’t know the inner workings of every marker out there anymore so I don’t know if this is being done yet. ((If it isn’t consider this part “prior art” for patent purposes))

But why not simply replace the Hall sensor with a pair of break beam optics or “eyes” that sense when a trigger pull breaks a plane?

I just pulled out my Keyence Vision Systems catalog and compared it some of the E-Mag frame schematics I had laying around and I think this should be something that can easily be retrofitted?

So my questions are: Is this being done out there anywhere currently, and do any of the other mechanically/electronically inclined folk among us deem this a possible solution?

If this is already out there and been proven unfeasible, I am sorry for the waste of bandwidth, but hey I am trying to be a problem solver and not just complain about it.


Yes, this will absolutely solve it. Any non-magnetic switch will. One of the places I was thinking of for an optic switch, is below the trigger return magnets. Instead of detecting the rear of the trigger, it would be on top of it.

I "think" I solved the HES issue with 4.20. Dayspring's marker, I classify as hosed - there's something wrong with it I believe. A solution to the HES problem doesn't put 4.x any closer to release though - there's other issues.

TK did not want to pursue 4.x - I don't know about Zupe. And quite frankly, I don't really care anymore. I have my software, to heck with the rest of you! :rofl:

[FallNAngel]

I "think" I solved the HES issue with 4.20. Dayspring's marker, I classify as hosed - there's something wrong with it I believe. A solution to the HES problem doesn't put 4.x any closer to release though - there's other issues.

TK did not want to pursue 4.x - I don't know about Zupe. And quite frankly, I don't really care anymore. I have my software, to heck with the rest of you! :rofl:


What other issues?

Either way, send me the code, I'd love to take a look at it :headbang:

[Miscue]

What other issues?

Either way, send me the code, I'd love to take a look at it :headbang:

:nono: :nono: :nono:

[thecavemankevin]

TK did not want to pursue 4.x - I don't know about Zupe. And quite frankly, I don't really care anymore. I have my software, to heck with the rest of you! :rofl:

thats not nice :mad:

meh, i'm done with mags for right now anyways. for me, in their current form they have become just another rec marker.

[FallNAngel]

:nono: :nono: :nono:

Well, you can't blame a guy for trying to help out an otherwise dead project.

[Muzikman]

Go ask Microsoft for the code to DOS, see what kind of response you get.

[Vanced]

Yes, this will absolutely solve it. Any non-magnetic switch will. One of the places I was thinking of for an optic switch, is below the trigger return magnets. Instead of detecting the rear of the trigger, it would be on top of it.

I "think" I solved the HES issue with 4.20. Dayspring's marker, I classify as hosed - there's something wrong with it I believe. A solution to the HES problem doesn't put 4.x any closer to release though - there's other issues.

TK did not want to pursue 4.x - I don't know about Zupe. And quite frankly, I don't really care anymore. I have my software, to heck with the rest of you! :rofl:

Ok...

That answers at least #1 of my list of questions .. and I was pretty sure I wasn't the first person this solution dawn'd on... But at least it "IS" a solution... and YES, I know it doesn't mean 4.X will ever be released.... And I know Miscue spoke of "other" issues why it won't be released... OK .. we all know... Fiscal & Liability are included there...And I am not the powers that be that are able to address thoose issues... but I would like to at least find a solution that will totally remove ANY of the lingering safety issues raised by the Hall sensor and magnetic issues... So it can hopefully be finally and offically said that the fiscal and liability are the ONLY issues preventing from us for taking one step to closer to the full potential in the current E/X-Mag...

And Yes we know Miscue has "his" software... He did by all rights write the damn stuff... and we continue to be jealous of him... and he continues to flaunt that fact ... Meany ! :p

And yes I am a little bitter ... :rolleyes:

Because the solution does exist... be it simply the 4.2 software... or changes to the gun itself...

Muzikman: At work we typically use Keyence sensors, vision, and measurement equipment but we have a few other brands but I cann't off the top of my head remember their web page... www.keyence.com ... Their Fiber Optic sensors are easily avaiable in small enough sizes to be packed inside a grip frame or possibly even a Proximity sensor would do the trick...

The difficult part as I am sure you can guess is where to put the contorl / amplifier / display module ... I was thinking it could be simply plugged into the existing hall sensor jack and reuse and reprogram the inplace circuitry and LCD to replace the control / amplifer/ display...

I am tottally guessing the massive battery (compared to other paintball batterys ) would be enough to run it without much problem...

[phantomhitman]

eblades have exactly what you are looking for, just like havok said. it is quite small and compact also. i do not know how you would strip it out and use it for emags though...... :confused:

[Vanced]

eblades have exactly what you are looking for, just like havok said. it is quite small and compact also. i do not know how you would strip it out and use it for emags though...... :confused:

Your right... and I have nothing against it... And actually suggested that a while ago in a coversation with Rogue and Luke... about steps that should be taken in the future of the Automag... I am a too tired to look it up now, maybe I'll take the time to do a search and post the thread if you care later...

[shatter_storm]

What would be interesting is if you could make a drop in replacement mod for the emag, fitting an optical breakbeam sensor package where the HES is, and a replacement trigger with an extension on it to break the beam. You'd have to find a place to tap into on the emag board for the emitter, and then rig the detector up to the board. I don't know if the HES outputs an analog signal based on the magnet strength or if it's just a digital flipover on the right proximiity, but a daughterboard can be made on the cheap regardless.

Worst case scenario:
custom formed part to house the optic switch where the HES was
new machined trigger minus the magnets plus a beam-breaking arm
daughterboard + ICs to give a sane signal to the emag board
new code for the emag to take advantage of the lack of HES

The upgrade would probably cost $200 or $300 because of all the custom parts used, and you'd have a maximum target market of all the emags/xmags ever sold. It's not much of a benefit regardless (the emag has troubles cycling up past 20 bps anyways, I think) and one heck of a risky investment to make. Especially since the emag is out of production and isn't coming back...

A microswitch mounted where the HES was sounds like a better/cheaper idea to me.

[FallNAngel]

Go ask Microsoft for the code to DOS, see what kind of response you get.

Your right. Asking a multi-billion dollar company for the source code to an operating system that's still used in many computers is exactly like asking for the ASM code on a paintball marker :rolleyes:


It's not much of a benefit regardless (the emag has troubles cycling up past 20 bps anyways, I think)

Nope... I believe Z-Man clocked his around 36cps :shooting:

[Muzikman]

Your right. Asking a multi-billion dollar company for the source code to an operating system that's still used in many computers is exactly like asking for the ASM code on a paintball marker :rolleyes:



Nope... I believe Z-Man clocked his around 36cps :shooting:


Nope, it's no different. Microsoft quit supporting DOS, so as far as they are concerned it's a dead OS. There for, it's dead, why not give it to someone who asks for the code. It's exacly the same. Hell, it's even worse to ask for Brian's code as he never got the chance to make his millions.

[FallNAngel]

Nope, it's no different. Microsoft quit supporting DOS, so as far as they are concerned it's a dead OS. There for, it's dead, why not give it to someone who asks for the code. It's exacly the same. Hell, it's even worse to ask for Brian's code as he never got the chance to make his millions.

I'm sure there's still places that *rely* on DOS and how it functions. Releasing it's source code could open up other exploits. Yes, I'm sure there's not a huge abundance of businesses that still use it, but I'm sure there are at least a few. In either case, even if I *did* get the ASM code, it's not like I'd be using it to make millions either. When I asked if I could have the code, I didn't expect him to say yes... but you never know until you try.

[Enemy]

the only issue i see with this is that the break beams activation point isnt adjustable so you would have over come the length of the trigger rod or remove it to remove bounce!!! with 3.2 where it is and 4.2 atleast in brians hands this mod wouldnt be worth the time spent on it. also you have to mill the grip frame so the trigger extension could go through to trip the beam!!though miscue did have a good idea perhaps mounting it on top of the trigger just theres not much room up there!! has anyone thought of isolating the hes from the solenoid to prevent magnetic bounce??i dont know if they make a material that could effectively work?

[RRfireblade]

Nope... I believe Z-Man clocked his around 36cps :shooting:

That's was a free cycling valve on it's own.

The soleniod in an E/Xmag is not capable of cycling past 21-23 BPS. Therefore limiting electronic fire to that.

[FallNAngel]

That's was a free cycling valve on it's own.

The soleniod in an E/Xmag is not capable of cycling past 21-23 BPS. Therefore limiting electronic fire to that.


Ahh, I could've swore he had an X-Mag hooked up to a scuba... guess it was his RT ...

[Vanced]

the only issue i see with this is that the break beams activation point isnt adjustable so you would have over come the length of the trigger rod or remove it to remove bounce!!! with 3.2 where it is and 4.2 atleast in brians hands this mod wouldnt be worth the time spent on it. also you have to mill the grip frame so the trigger extension could go through to trip the beam!!though miscue did have a good idea perhaps mounting it on top of the trigger just theres not much room up there!! has anyone thought of isolating the hes from the solenoid to prevent magnetic bounce??i dont know if they make a material that could effectively work?

Ok... It's been said that the break beam is out there currently.. how are they doing it ? andit is somewhat adjustable... you can either adjust the amplification of the beam or the beams relation to the trigger with a simple slot and set screw...
Or maybe even better a reflective type optic, you can gain ALOT of tuneability in thoose...
Or maybe even a Proximity sensor would be better.. ?

I mainly wanted to stir up the converstaion with a possible solution...

As for shielding the the solenoid or the HES... I vaugely remember somewhere about someone looking into it... it was probably Brian *Miscue* ... but I do not know what if anything ever came of it...

[hitech]

...compared it some of the E-Mag frame schematics I had laying around...

Do you have the schematic for the eMag? I've been wondering how the warp interface is wired. I have the emag battery running the warp and believe that grounding the warp interface "blew" the board. I'd like to confirm that and determine if it can be avoided. Thanks.

[misfit]

I have the emag battery running the warp and believe that grounding the warp interface "blew" the board.
i did the same thing when i pluged in the intelli feed cable. thats why i was wondering about that power module that agde sold, if it resolved that problem.

[Enemy]

the power module is soldered or connected to the power wire going to the solenoid and then grounded using the screw that holds down the board i didnt feel like soldering so i used the splice on the wire so far it works amzingly well with my reloader b!! and the only issue i had is that the shot counter reset one night when i was speed testing my hopper to see the difference between the voltage.

[GT]

This is something I have never understood, why has there not been the same issues with morlock'ed or predator'ed emags?

[Vanced]

GT: To be honest who to say there hasn't been ? the problems to start with were rare, and corrected with software (4.2 is susposedly near perfect , other than for Daysprings X-mag )

The Pred's and Morlock's probably have the same software fixes that Miscue put in 4.2 ...

Hi-Tech: Ok... Maybe Schematic was the wrong word... I don't have anything other than the pictures available here, and from the X-mag Manual from the airgun.com and what I seen when I have had the covers off an E-mag... Sorry :rolleyes:

[RRfireblade]

This is something I have never understood, why has there not been the same issues with morlock'ed or predator'ed emags?


Good question. I've also used other boards without issue as well.

You know that story, Software guy blames the hardware and the hardware guy blames the software. Usually ends up being somewhere in the middle. :)

[Vanced]

Good question. I've also used other boards without issue as well.

You know that story, Software guy blames the hardware and the hardware guy blames the software. Usually ends up being somewhere in the middle. :)

Yeah always a lot of finger pointing that goes on...

And I'll be the first to admit I am much more Mechanically compitent than Electronically but possibly somthing about the board/chip makes it more or less subject to the magnetic interferance ?

[hitech]

...Software guy blames the hardware and the hardware guy blames the software. Usually ends up being somewhere in the middle. :)

No, no, no, no... it's always the hardware! ;)

Seriously, in this case the hardware guy (Tom) said it was basically the hardware. But it depends on how you look at it. It wasn't a problem until shot buffering was introduced. Without shot buffering the interference from the solenoid was ignored. Once the solenoid was off, the interference was eliminated. In some cases (not all, by current emag has 4.1 and has NO issue) the hardware was not up to the demands of the software.

No one has a schematic for the eMag?


:cheers:

[RRfireblade]

No, no, no, no... it's always the hardware! ;)

Seriously, in this case the hardware guy (Tom) said it was basically the hardware. But it depends on how you look at it. It wasn't a problem until shot buffering was introduced. Without shot buffering the interference from the solenoid was ignored. Once the solenoid was off, the interference was eliminated. In some cases (not all, by current emag has 4.1 and has NO issue) the hardware was not up to the demands of the software.

No one has a schematic for the eMag?


:cheers:


Which 'could' be corrected by software ,IMO. ;) The hardware is only capable of 22-23BPS so don't allow the software to look for or try for 50. :)

[hitech]

Which 'could' be corrected by software ,IMO. ;) The hardware is only capable of 22-23BPS so don't allow the software to look for or try for 50. :)

But, but, but....

The hardware can typically be corrected. Then you don't have the limitations. Howerver, I believe Miscue has software that handles most of the existing hardware. "We" just aren't going to see it. ;)

:cheers:

[RRfireblade]

I see...you must be a software guy. :D

[hitech]

I see...you must be a software guy. :D

Guilty as charged! :D

[Miscue]

Which 'could' be corrected by software ,IMO. ;) The hardware is only capable of 22-23BPS so don't allow the software to look for or try for 50. :)

4.20


;)

[SCpoloRicker]

4.20


;)

:ninja:

I want one!!

[Miscue]

:ninja:

I want one!!

I think the best option right now, is a Predator II board... if I'm not mistaken. I only bother continuing to mention 4.x so that someone else can know - "It can be done," and will develop something independently.

[Vanced]

I think the best option right now, is a Predator II board... if I'm not mistaken. I only bother continuing to mention 4.x so that someone else can know - "It can be done," and will develop something independently.

Or it's just your little racket to continue to market and hype ... until you finally let it go for major $$$ a pop and make more profit off of it than was made off the X-mags inital release...

Or so we can hope ? :rofl:

Funny got another thread going on about morals and speed vs money arguement and here in this one were begging to pay someone that wont give up something with no further *imediate development or production* cost to them for pure profit ? :rolleyes: What a strange strange world...

[RRfireblade]

4.20


;)


See I knew it was easy. :D What took so long. :)

[Miscue]

Or it's just your little racket to continue to market and hype ... until you finally let it go for major $$$ a pop make and more profit is made off of it than was off the X-mags...

Or so we can hope ? :rofl:

Funny got another thread going on about morals and speed vs money arguement and here in this one were begging to pay someone that wont give up something with no further *imediate development or production* cost to them for pure profit ? :rolleyes: What a strange strange world...

Nope. I was not interested in making money on it - and never will be. I'm not keen on releasing something that goes on a device that shoots at people - on my own. The thought of that, scares me crapless... really. Hence, the AGD version number instead of Q2.0 - and why you can't send it to me and ask for me to flash it for any amount of money. It's not mine to give. The only time it's ever been given out is with AGDs knowledge/approval.

However, that will not keep me from helping someone else to create one - as a replacement. I have some insights on how to make it safe and how to address certain problems - and that's always been a standing offer. I hope somebody releases something for you guys eventually - something that will be at least as safe as mine.

I'm just surprised we haven't seen an alternative yet. First one to get to it could probably sell it for $50 a pop.

I figure it's only a matter of time before somebody does. What I worry is, it will not be as safe as mine. And if someone gets hurt, the lawyers still go after AGD - because it is their gun. A demand has been created - question is who has control over the software. The lack of 4.x being available... fuels the incentive to create dangerous software because there isn't an alternative.

I have considered releasing a software kit, to make it super easy to make your own software... under GNU license. But after further thought, I decided it wasn't worthwhile. And I wouldn't want to give birth to a new world of cheating. :p I know that's what you guys would do with it.

[Vanced]

Nope. I was not interested in making money on it - and never will be. I'm not keen on releasing something that goes on a device that shoots at people - on my own. Hence, the AGD version number instead of Q2.0 - and why you can't send it to me and ask for me to flash it for any amount of money. It's not mine to give. The only time it's ever been given out is with AGDs knowledge/approval.

However, that will not keep me from helping someone else to create one - as a replacement. I have some insights on how to make it safe and how to address certain problems - and that's always been a standing offer. I hope somebody releases something for you guys eventually - something that will be at least as safe as mine.

I'm just surprised we haven't seen an alternative yet. First one to get to it could probably sell it for $50 a pop.

I figure it's only a matter of time before somebody does. What I worry is, it will not be as safe as mine. And if someone gets hurt, the lawyers still go after AGD - because it is their gun. A demand has been created - question is who has control over the software. The lack of 4.x being available... fuels the incentive to create dangerous software because there isn't an alternative.

My quote was directed at you Brian, I more than understand your place in the matter...and I agree with where you are comming from...I highly doubt I would risk my rear end either... but for someone who already has there neck out there....

It was just more of a general statement... And your right I am surprised too and that was more my point... that someone hasn't taken this little project on given that a proven or at least a very nearly proven solution is sitting for someone to take it and run with it... and I think the $50.00 a pop price point might even be low for some...

[RRfireblade]

However, that will not keep me from helping someone else to create one - as a replacement. I have some insights on how to make it safe and how to address certain problems - and that's always been a standing offer. I hope somebody releases something for you guys eventually - something that will be at least as safe as mine.

.

We need to talk....seriously.

[Miscue]

We need to talk....seriously.

Demonstrate software that can do shot buffering, and then we'll talk. :D

It only takes part of a day to do this.

[Vanced]

Hopefully I just wittnessed another step being taken for 4.X becoming available to all... :clap:

[RRfireblade]

Yeah....if I HAD part of a day available. :D That's what I want you for, I can handle the liability end. :ninja:

[Miscue]

Hopefully I just wittnessed another step being taken for 4.X becoming available to all... :clap:

Something functionally equivalent... maybe. 4.X is dead.

[Miscue]

Yeah....if I HAD part of a day available. :D That's what I want you for, I can handle the liability end. :ninja:

Well, I can't help unless you have someone who can write it themselves. Sorry.

[GT]

Or it's just your little racket to continue to market and hype ... until you finally let it go for major $$$ a pop and make more profit off of it than was made off the X-mags inital release.....

You didnt know 'scue was a closet millionaire selling 4.X out the trunk of his car like crack?



I figure it's only a matter of time before somebody does. What I worry is, it will not be as safe as mine. And if someone gets hurt, the lawyers still go after AGD - because it is their gun. A demand has been created - question is who has control over the software. The lack of 4.x being available... fuels the incentive to create dangerous software because there isn't an alternative.


Very true, I think this is what pisses me off most. Its an AGD issue and not a programmer issue. Sorry if my other threads had seemed like they were shots at you. You have very eloquently proven that the issues, in part, can be solved but its AGD that is the hold up. My point in the last thread was this info in its entirety.



I think the best option right now, is a Predator II board...

Agreed,
I posted in the tinker's guild about a week ago about the names of specific emag connections. It is beyond me why someone hasnt made a mid-harness for the emag---> pred 2 connection. Be very easy to solder and crimp a few wires and sell a drop in harness for 30~50 bucks, all you need is a preadator 2. When new software is availible for the pred you can put your OEM board back in while the pred gets reflashed at TAG.

[Vanced]

Something functionally equivalent... maybe. 4.X is dead.

Call it what you will... If it is done to an AGD quality product level which I know 4.2 is because it was done by the same guy who did the publically released by AGD 3.2 and he calls it an improvement over the orginal and done & released by people who know and care about AGD products such a RR...

I'll be happy to have "Fireware V 1.0" flashed on my X-mag or what ever else is out there as long it is done right in my eyes...

[RRfireblade]

I'll be happy to have "Fireware V 1.0" flashed on my X-mag or what ever else is out there as long it is done right in my eyes...


I like that sound of that. :)

'Cept, Brian's going to have to awnt to get in contact with me if he want's to be involved in making it happen. I can't twist his arm and it doesn't seem as though he want's to be involved.

IDK... I have to think about what's possible.

[Miscue]

I like that sound of that. :)

'Cept, Brian's going to have to awnt to get in contact with me if he want's to be involved in making it happen. I can't twist his arm and it doesn't seem as though he want's to be involved.

IDK... I have to think about what's possible.

I have zero interest in that, sorry.

[Miscue]

You didnt know 'scue was a closet millionaire selling 4.X out the trunk of his car like crack?


Closet millionaire? Eh no. I might be a thousandaire... and that would be pushing it!

[RRfireblade]

That's cool, No problem.

Just going off:


I hope somebody releases something for you guys eventually -


However, that will not keep me from helping someone else to create one - as a replacement


Something functionally equivalent...

But that's fine,as long as I know where you stand then I won't bug you anymore. :)

[shatter_storm]

Assuming someone could develop software for the emag independantly of AGD/Miscue, they should be smart enough not to take it to market.
1) I highly doubt that AGD would permit them to *sell* the software.
2) AGD techs and miscue would have to reflash any and all boards coming in with non-approved software, just as they do with 4.xx now.
3) Why write software (especially potential cheater software) and then release it to anyone for free? 3.2 can handle up to 20 bps and buffering, correct? If you develop software on your own and make it better than what's available, and you can't sell it, why should you let anyone else use it?



I'm keeping an eye out for cheap-ish emag lowers, just in case. I want to write my own code as much as you guys probably want 4.xx - it's what programmers do. But I'm a broke college student - cases of paint come before experimental emag lowers ;)

[Vanced]

I want to write my own code as much as you guys probably want 4.xx - it's what programmers do.

Well to me RR, is interested in possibly releasing some software ... and it somewhat sounds like Miscue is willing to help who ever wants to release software as long as they have someone else write it from scrach.... AND now sounds like Shatter_storm is wanting to write some software from scrach ??? :rolleyes:

;)

[shatter_storm]

Well to me RR, is interested in possibly releasing some software ... and it somewhat sounds like Miscue is willing to help who ever wants to release software as long as they have someone else write it from scrach.... AND now sounds like Shatter_storm is wanting to write some software from scrach ??? :rolleyes:

;)

Yeah, but I can't do anything without a board, RR can't do anything without some code, and miscue won't do anything without someone showing some serious effort.

Get me a board and I'll try and recreate 4.xx, but I can't promise anything.

[trains are bad]

Why not just ditch the HES and use a microswitch? Is there actually anything better about the HES except that it sounds cool?

[TheTramp]

No click. Of course an optical switch would be the same.

[Wc Keep]

is anyone at all thinking about replacing the noid as well??

[TheTramp]

I guess you could do that if you put in the ULT kit.

[hitech]

is anyone at all thinking about replacing the noid as well??

Yes, but I doubt anyone will actually do it. I've thought about it and know what solenoid I think will work. However, i'm not in a position to try it.

[bunker17]

yeah i could probably try this project nut i happen to be broke had to sold my emag to pay books and it was a sweet one so when i get one and actually open it. and see whats inside
i wish i had money to work on this

[Vanced]

Only problem is any changes to the gun it self be it the trigger sensor or noid... is going to require some software changes regardless... and if the problem *can :confused: * be solved with software only... that would be the best or at least the cheapest way to go ... becauses any changes to the frame itself.. adds hardware and/or re-anno costs along with the cost of the software anyway...

And yes I know I am the one who started this thread with a "replace the HES" message... but that was in hopes it would gain the support of "IF" the magnetic / safety concerns were removed someone would be willing to create or release the software for it... or at least AGD would publically state Cost & Liability are the only issues preventing it's release... but that doesn't seem to be the case...

What seems to me so far the only shot to get anything functionally close to 4.X is to have someone else write and release it... and hopefully it will be up to AGD standards... that if there are any issues or need to get it fixed we can just flash it back to AGD software...

Or a step that a lot of the AGD faithfull have to this point been unwilling to do so far.. and put a Non-AGD parts and or electronics into their gun....

[TheTramp]

Or a step that a lot of the AGD faithfull have to this point been unwilling to do so far.. and put a Non-AGD parts and or electronics into their gun....

I think that the Morlock'd E-Mags and the acceptance of the DevilMag show that if you make it, Maggers will try it.

There will always people who will try new non-AGD parts and if it turns out that they work well (ie. are reliable and actually make improvements) then only the real AGD purists will spurn them.

[Vanced]

I think that the Morlock'd E-Mags and the acceptance of the DevilMag show that if you make it, Maggers will try it.

There will always people who will try new non-AGD parts and if it turns out that they work well (ie. are reliable and actually make improvements) then only the real AGD purists will spurn them.

And not saying they won't... Heck I am one of um... I shot Micro-Mags for many years & had several of um and still have one that is my primary Bodied Mech Gun... I love to see things being built on the Mag platform, for the mag, and around the valve and will promote as much of it as possible... And totally agree the work being done by GA Devil and the others in the Electronic world for mags is one of the positive things happing to the mag and will only help save it... and have said before a Bolt-Off / Bolt-On Rock solid E-Frame (that removes the sear from behind the trigger) would be great for the mag allowing players to go from E-Gun to Mech Rec gun with just the turn of a few screws... Because the valve can handle it and the level 10 makes eyes not absolutly needed... Becuase look what the E-Blade has done for the rebirth of the "Mechanized Hose Beast" of the cocker... ?

But to be honest *IN MY OPINION* a lot of the new E-Hybrids of the mag are being built and sold to people because of the lack of a comparable and supported AGD product...

[TheTramp]

But to be honest *IN MY OPINION* a lot of the new E-Hybrids of the mag are being built and sold to people because of the lack of a comparable and supported AGD product...

I totaly agree with you here. It would take a lot for me to buy a product from an aftermarket mfg if AGD made something basicly exactly the same.

With that said, I'd love to be able to put something like an Entropy board (like the one in my Intimidator) into my E-Mag without huge amounts of work.

[shatter_storm]

Only problem is any changes to the gun it self be it the trigger sensor or noid... is going to require some software changes regardless... and if the problem *can :confused: * be solved with software only... that would be the best or at least the cheapest way to go ... becauses any changes to the frame itself.. adds hardware and/or re-anno costs along with the cost of the software anyway...

And yes I know I am the one who started this thread with a "replace the HES" message... but that was in hopes it would gain the support of "IF" the magnetic / safety concerns were removed someone would be willing to create or release the software for it... or at least AGD would publically state Cost & Liability are the only issues preventing it's release... but that doesn't seem to be the case...

What seems to me so far the only shot to get anything functionally close to 4.X is to have someone else write and release it... and hopefully it will be up to AGD standards... that if there are any issues or need to get it fixed we can just flash it back to AGD software...

Or a step that a lot of the AGD faithfull have to this point been unwilling to do so far.. and put a Non-AGD parts and or electronics into their gun....

The only problem with software changes, most especially "approved" ones, is that the emag and xmag are dead. They arn't in production, they don't have R&D time devoted to them, they don't need to be improved. AGD won't/doesn't need to publicly state anything because AGD isn't concerned with emags/xmags in a product-development role. 4.2 could probably be released, but it won't be because it doesn't need to be.
3.2 is faster than all but a handful of people, it does it's job, and it's proven to work and be safe.

That being said, if you can get your hands on some opto sensors that'll fit the emag frame, try 'em out. I'm certain that if you can get it to fit the frame, or mod the frame to fit, someone somewhere will help you with getting the board to jive with it. Miscue seems like a nice guy, I'd bet you could send your mag into him and he'd do a one-off flash to deal with the optical sensor. If the sensor puts out a signal that the board can't deal with, I'm certain that there's a schmitt trigger that we could cram in there to make it work with the board.


The question still remains though: Is there a problem with the emag? I know there's a percieved problem with it, but since I don't own an emag I don't know for sure. Other than being hard to get your hands on, what's wrong with the emag? What "needs" to be fixed?

[RRfireblade]

The question still remains though: Is there a problem with the emag? I know there's a percieved problem with it, but since I don't own an emag I don't know for sure. Other than being hard to get your hands on, what's wrong with the emag? What "needs" to be fixed?

Nothing.....unlesss you want to shoot over 23bps with it....like.....wait a minute....same problem as every other E-Marker out there. :)

[shatter_storm]

But to be honest *IN MY OPINION* a lot of the new E-Hybrids of the mag are being built and sold to people because of the lack of a comparable and supported AGD product...


In my opinion all of the e-hybrids are being built because a great number of people own mechanical mags and want them to be electronic. The emag is a marker, not an upgrade like the eblade is. Emag lowers have to come from another emag, with the exception of a low number of manufactured extra frames.
I don't think there are that many people that own emags and can honestly say that they outperform the marker. Please correct me on this, but the majority of those that want 4.xx want it because it's available, not because you can get 2-3 extra bps from the 'mag. I'm not even sure most people that own emags know that the physical limitation of that platform is 22-23ish bps.

[shatter_storm]

Nothing.....unlesss you want to shoot over 23bps with it....like.....wait a minute....same problem as every other E-Marker out there. :)

I'd argue that that isn't a problem, because of two factors.
1) no widely accepted loader on the market can feed 23 bps.
2) very very few people can pull a trigger that fast. And we all know the emag doesn't have a full-auto mode intentionally. :)

[RRfireblade]

Unfortunately.....

Niether of those 2 factors have any impact on the average internet Pballers opinion on 'fast'.

[Enemy]

i want 4.xx because ive shot it and because i can tell you it does make a difference!! is 3.2 good enough yes but have i ever settled for just good enough!!

[TheTramp]

Just look at the boards being put into the E-Spyder and Spyder clones.

I guess that those are dealing with a gun system that isn't "dead" but there's got to be a "tech head" that's into Mags that wants to "improve" the E-Mag.