Custom Trigger jobs?

[Arman/XPM]

Hello all,
When I went to the local paintball store, to have my nitro filled, the shop owner told me that I could turn the trigger pin, or something like that(that little peice behind the trigger) to touch closer to my trigger, so I would not have to pull on it as much.
Now, I some people have told me to watch out for Automags that have been tampered with, in the trigger area.
Should I do it, or will it ruin my gun?

[Cliffio]

well i wouldnt reccomend doing it yourself if u dont really know what to do, been there done that:)

if you would do it i would have someone that knows what they are doin do it

Cliff

[MajorDamage]

NO! Do not let <B>ANYONE</B> give it a trigger job. Mags are set as best as they can be from the factory. Giving your gun a trigger job will mess up the timing!

ENDO!

[Arman/XPM]

Thank you guys.

Majordamage,
can you give me some insight on that?

[AngelBoy]

I don't know major, id say somebody at AGD could probably hook him up with a sweet trigger pull. But other than that I wouldnt let anybody touch it, I've only seen one mag trigger thats had a doityourself job on it and worked right.

[Bartleby]

probably wouldn't mess with it. you might call AGD and see what they say.

[Army]

Arman/XPM, The trigger on a Mag is set at the factory to be optimal in relation to opening and closing of the on/off valve, and release and capture of the bolt by the sear. The trigger does both jobs, the timing of the bolt and valve are dependent on the factory setting to be correct.

Any "trigger job" you may know of, is destined to bring about; leaks, rapid bolt wear, rapid sear wear, chops, and an eventual trip to AGD to be repaired. The factory techs, and AGD trained techs, have buckets of worn and failed parts due to the so called trigger jobs that are out there.

Leave your trigger alone. Letting it wear honestly will soon make the trigger lighter, safely. If you insist on wanting a better trigger, consider buying a ReTro Valve. The ReTro "reacts" the trigger, the reaction is tuned by how much air pressure you are allowing from your tank.
:cool:

[Tunaman]

Besides what everyone on this forum has just said, If you attempt to give that Mag I just sold you a "Trigger Job", It will void any warranty with me. Leave it alone! It will wreck that masterpiece I built for you!:mad: And tell that guy in the store you just mentioned that I said he doesn't know what he is talking about!

[Drizit]

Ok, here I go putting my neck on the block.

if you really want a bit less slop in the trigger there is only one safe way to do it (and what happens to your warranty as a result is between you and Tunaman, so talk it over with him first) gas up your gun and use pliers to turn out the trigger rod until there is about a paper's with of space between it and the back of the trigger. Remember, and this is important when the gun is gassed up you should still be able to see light between the end of the trigger rod and the back of the trigger. if you go too far you will mess up the action of the gun, it may cause the sear and bolt to ware prematurely. if you decide you REALLY, REALLY want to do it, you talk with Tunaman about your warranty, and you have any questions go ahead and ask me.

also as to it messing up your gun's timing. Mag's don't have a timing you can mess up like a cocker does. with a mag it's all about the distance of travel. if you don't let the sear go all the way forward then the on/off may still be partly closed, and it won't grab the bolt where it should. if a trigger stop is put in and the sear doesn't go all the way back anymore then the on/off may not get closed all the way causing inconsistent velocity and the bolt may stick on the top of the sear instead of returning like it's supposed to. If you are going to do this you have to do it right or not at all. second you have to beside if you ACTUALLY want to change the trigger pull.

you may all proceed to deride me now. however keep in mind that when done properly this trigger job works. Also the factory setting is the best AVERAGE setting, not necessarily the best for YOUR mag and for you as a player.

[mac2k4]

if ya want a light, short trigger, ya going to have to get some type of electronic frame(booyah, hyperframe...) Other than that you'll still be able to shortstroke, shoot slow

[AirChunck]

The more you use the sear and valve, from what I've been told, the wear slowly lightens the trigger pull. Other than that, the only trigger jobs I've ever heard of was some light grinding of the sear. They want 35 $us for a automag trigger job at my local paintball shop. :confused:

[Drizit]

please... please... don't let anyone grind, polish, or in any other way modify your bolt and sear. in most cases you will just end up getting new ones. some people get it to work but it ends up cutting the life span of the parts in half. just deal with the weight of the pull. if it really bugs you then the Z-Valve has been known to lighten the pull. It and the Reactor valve are about the only valve modifications that do anything for you. if you want a more reactive trigger, go out and get two on/off pins. grind the fist one down a bit at a time. keep trying it in the gun. when your trigger starts to double fire, or you get the lawn sprinkler effect stop. then grind the second one down just a bit less. if you screw up and make the second one too short put the stock one back in and go buy another one to grind. never and I do mean never grind your stock one. that way every time you grind too much off you can put the stock on/off pin back in and play, knowing you gun will work the way it was intended.

also I don't recommend doing this until you learn everything about how your mag works.

[MajorDamage]

What Army said. Don't give it a trigger job. It may work for a while, but you will have problems with tolerance, and other stuff. DON'T BREAK MAGS! THEY RULE! :):):)

ENDO!

[mag_pbg]

So what your saying Drizit, is to eas the trigger pull just grind down the on/off pin¿

[Drizit]

no. shortening your on/off pin wont make it any softer. it will make it kick back more after you fire, it helps a bit with short stroking, but I don't recommend you do it until you fully understand the consequences.
first off have a few extra before you even start.
second have an extra bolt because if you make it too short you will chew up the bolt.
also if you make it too short your gun may fire when you release the trigger sometimes, it may even fire a few times. be very very carful with this mod.
also if you do Go ahead and do it keep in mind that you only need to take very little off the end of the pin for it to work. as in almost an invisible amount. if for any reason after you do this your gun starts to act in any way twitchy, put your unmodified stock on/off pin that you took out and put in a safe place, that Tunaman gave you with the gun back in and then try to trouble shoot anything else.

[Arman/XPM]

Thank you all for your input.

Tunaman,
Donot worry, I was just asking, I am not planning on wrecking this beauty.

[GallagherAtWar]

this is a web page i found

this was not writtem by me


Technique #1: Sear Polishing
This is probably the most common technique used in 'mag trigger-jobs. It entails reducing the height of the front part of the sear that catches the bolt. By polishing it down, you reduce the distance the trigger needs to be pulled to release the bolt and fire the 'gun.

Look at the top of the sear, the long front part that rises higher than the rest of the sear and has a sharp back edge that catches the bolt is what we're interested in. On a new or only slightly worn sear, you'll see lines running horizontally across the top of this part. These lines are just remnants of the sear's production and are not important for the functioning of the sear. They are usefull as a gauge of polishing depth. Use your polishing tool to evenly polish down the top of the sear until these lines just disappear. Now put the sear back in the 'gun and try it out.

I know this does not sound like you're taking very much off, but it does make a significant difference in shortening and lightening the trigger pull. If you're still not happy with it, you can start grinding more down. Keep in mind, though, that if you take too much off, you'll ultimately end up with a 'gun that will either go full-auto much too easily or have chronic barrel leak. If you do take it down too far, you'll have to replace the sear.



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Technique #2: Sear Beveling
I only learned of this one myself recently. It is considerably more extreme than polishing the top of the sear and it leads to much faster sear wear. But when it's done right, it effects a much better improvement than polishing the top of the sear alone while retaining greater reliability. If you plan on doing this modification, only polish the top of the sear lightly. Significant grinding prior to beveling will definately lead to problems.
http://www.paintballravi.com/Articles/MagTrigger/Sear.gif
After polishing the lines out of the top of the sear, take your grinding tool and grind down one side of the sear top so that rather than being flat, it slopes down to one side. That is to say, it should slope down from left to right, or right to left, not front to back or back to front. You don't have to grind it down very much. 5-15 degrees should be sufficient. Make sure to leave one side at the original height to give some leeway for initial wear which will be rather quick when you first use it.

What this seems to achieve is to allow the sear to slip off the bolt more easily leading to a softer, less abrupt trigger pull.



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Technique #3: Polished On/Off Pin
One of the most common complaints about the Auto/Mini/Micromag series of paintguns is velocity drop-off during rapid-fire. One way of alleviating this problem is to have the on/off valve open earlier in the trigger release so it is open longer between fires. One way to do this is by slightly shortening the on/off valve pin.
http://www.paintballravi.com/Articles/MagTrigger/Pin.gif
This modification must be done very conservatively and carefully to prevent mistiming the 'gun. If you make the pin too short, it will start opening before the sear has had a chance to catch the bolt and you will experience frequent bolt-stick. It is also important that you work on the bottom of the pin only, where it interfaces with the back of the sear. If you modify the top part that actually has to seal the valve, it will sometimes stick in the teflon o-ring.

Look at the bottom of the on/off pin. You should see shallow concentric circular grooves remaining from the pin's production. Polish the bottom of the pin until these grooves just disappear. Here more than anyhwere, be careful not to take off too much metal!

After putting the pin back in your 'gun, you should find that the air chamber refills earlier in the trigger release than with the stock pin. This allows it more time to refill between shots and thus reduces walk-back.



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Technique #4: Free-Flow On/Off Valve
This modification also helps to alleviate drop-off. It's so simple to do, I find it amazing that people spend $15-$20 to buy this when a $2 pin file and 10 minutes of work allow you to get the same effect.
http://www.paintballravi.com/Articles/MagTrigger/On-off.gif
Remove the brass on/off top from the on/off valve. If you have a stock valve, you'll find that the top of it (the part that sits against the o-rings at the top of the 'gun) is flat except for the hole the on/off pin goes through. The trick here is to use a small, fine file or grinding tool to cut thin channels from the center hole to the edges of the brass top. I like to cut them in a simple "X" shape intersecting at the hole. Then continue these grooves down the sides to meet the narrower bottom part of the piece.

These channels allow an easy path for gas around the valve from the point where the valve opens. When you put the 'gun back together, you should find that it recharges quite a bit more quickly than it did before and drop-off is reduced.



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Technique #5: Adjust Sear Rod Length
The sear-rod couples the sear to the trigger. It is attached to the sear by threading into an arm that swings freely on the sear. Screwing the rod in or out of this arm adjusts the trigger position where the 'gun will fire. Keep in mind that for the most part this does not change the length or force of the trigger pull.

If you unscrew the rod enough, though, it will eventually get to a point where when the trigger is at the fully-forward position, the sear is still pushed back some. This effectively shortens the trigger pull some by "taking up the slack" inherent in the Automag trigger system. You typically do not use this with any of the first 3 techniques described here because it is very difficult (or impossible) to get them to work together reliably. The advantage of using this one is that it doesn't require any polishing or grinding and is easy to undo.

For Micromag users, you've undoubtedly found that the one thing the Micro lacks that it really needs is a trigger stop. You can just glue something into the space behind the sear to limit it's travel, or you can use this technique! If you shorten the trigger pull enough with the first 4 techniques, you can use this one to move the fire point forward of the point where the annoying safety stops the trigger. Do that and the safety becomes a trigger stop! Cool!


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Technique #6: Pro-Team Products Power-Tube Spacer Kit
I didn't believe this one until I tried it myself, but I am now convinced that if you're going to spend money upgrading the trigger of your 'mag, this is the first, best way to spend it.
http://www.paintballravi.com/Articles/MagTrigger/Spacers.gif
The power-tube spacer kit consists of five color-coded aluminum cylinders of slightly different lengths. What you do is replace the power-tube spring with the longest one of these aluminum spacers. If you then have leaking down the barrel, go to the next shorter spacer. If it still leaks, go to the next shorter spacer, etc., until there is no leaking down the barrel. You will find at this point that your trigger has magically become much lighter and faster than it was before!

The way this works is by precisely setting how far back the power-tube o-ring is set. The stem in the middle of the bolt goes down the power-tube and seals against the o-ring. If your power-tube spring is too long, the o-ring is pushed too far back, you don't get a good seal, and the 'gun leaks down the barrel. If your spring is too short, the o-ring sits far enough forward that it catches the bolt-stem tightly and you get bolt-stick, slowing and stiffening the trigger pull. By finding the spacer length that sets the o-ring at the point where the stem just seals agaist the o-ring without sticking in it, you get a much lighter and quicker trigger pull.

The real beauty of this kit is how well it works with any 'mag with any trigger work. If you have stock trigger parts, it will make the pull lighter and faster. If you've done the modifications I describe above, or have had other work done to it, you will find that the trigger works even better after installing the correct length spacer.

[boss_automager]

I think I know what type of triggerjob he is talking about giving you. If you said he meant working on the spring to make it lighter I think he will probaly replace it with a pen spring or another light spring.Tippmann model 98 and custom owners were originally the people who figured this out. Some of them were cleaning out their guns and found the trigger spring to be missing. So they decided to temperaily put a pen spring in untill a new trigger spring came in. When they shot it they were amazed at how fast it could shoot.Like if you put in one of those super strong springs in it could make your trigger pull 50pds.One of my friends who has a spyder did this to his trigger and he says it works great.If you had a pen spring with a responce trigger you would have the fastest gun in the world! But with a automag I probaly wouldn't do it. But for any of you who has a Tippmann or spyder you might want to give it a try.:D

[MikeCouves]

So no to trigger jobs!!. They will not make your trigger better, the trigger may feel a little lighter, but it will feel really sloppy and keep getting sloppier the more you use it.

Why would you want to ruin your beautiful mag?

[tremis]

I have performed a number of "trigger jobs" on my mags, but I'm a tinkerer. I enjoyed finding out what happened when I changed stuff. I would never charge someone for it, there are too many negatives to go with any of the positives. I did it to my and a few friends guns, and with a trigger pull guage, you could see a difference, but I couldn't with my finger. It was fun, and I went through a bunch of parts. I would never do it to a strangers gun. Just too much premature wear or unreliability. The thing that lightened the pull the most, was a benchy 45 frame with a two finger trigger. But it makes it a lot longer, but lighter. And when you bevel a sear it really goes through a bolt fast. We used PTP bolts, as they have a great warranty and they never asked what caused their bolts to get so chewed up. I once went through 5 PTP bolts in one year. Good thing I only paid for the first one :) Anyway, I don't reccomend any grinding, filing, polishing to any mag internals anymore. Well Ok, its still fun to see how much you can remove from the on/off top. I had one that had less material than the venom on/off top. But as a general rule, leave the inside alone.

Tremis