what if AGD made a LP valve?

[mag88888]

im making a roguefactor thread so i can be cool like him but anyway......what if AGD made a LP valve. i think people would be more interested being that you could get so many more shots off. what do you guys think? and yes they would probably have to change their whole design.

[jamescell]

There was a data thread started by Tom, it showed that automags operate at as low a pressure as an angel. So I'll finish the question, WAIT they already do!

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

yeah, plus SP tried that, didnt work out so well.

[Buff]

the valve already operates at LP.........the only thing we need is better efficiancy.

[than205]

What makes you think it "operates" at low pressure?

Better yet, what makes you think that it's not efficient?

[jamescell]

What makes you think it "operates" at low pressure?

Better yet, what makes you think that it's not efficient?

check out the data thread thats stickied in the deep blue forum.

[than205]

check out the data thread thats stickied in the deep blue forum.

Not an answer.

[jamescell]

ok, I looked at the data presented and concluded that the emag tested operated at a low pressure. It operated at a pressure similar to other low pressure markers. Do you not agree? Granted the overhead pressure required to maintain a seal is greater than other markers, I don't feel that is what is in question. People associate low pressure markers with accuracy. There fore the pressure used to propel the paint ball should be the only thing consitered. I did not comment on effiency, I have never complained.

[than205]

Actually, they show the pressure build up behind the ball.
It does not show anything about operating pressure.

The only real usefull outcome of LP (outside of possible smoother operation) is being able to go deeper into a tankfill.
(In my most humble of opinions)

[jamescell]

I guess we just have a differing opinions of what is in question. Agree to dis-agree?

[Chronobreak]

mags use HP to activate the on/off 450 psi is a miniumum(not really lp if u ask me)

the output per shot/ball force is similiar to just about every toher amrker

[tony3]

There was a data thread started by Tom, it showed that automags operate at as low a pressure as an angel. So I'll finish the question, WAIT they already do!

Ya Pre-IR3, all the new angels run in the 200 range. Mags are in the 400.

[SpitFire1299]

Well.. what if there was a new mag that was even lower pressured? My mag gets the least shots out of my tank than any other gun that i ever used.

[jamescell]

Ok, I guess I'm looking at this all wrong. Sorry for wasting forum space. :cheers: Perhaps a better flowing on/off would do the trick?

[Chronobreak]

Well.. what if there was a new mag that was even lower pressured? My mag gets the least shots out of my tank than any other gun that i ever used.


mags operate on HP principle

there are two principles in p-ball guns

lp=big spaces and low pressure

hp=small spaces and HIGH pressure

from ym udnerstand its one or the other..mags are mafe for HP..unels they remade the valve...it needs hp or ATLEASt like 600 psi

these are my udnerstanding if im wrong please feel to corect me

[than205]

I guess we just have a differing opinions of what is in question. Agree to dis-agree?

I'm not trying to be confrontational, just my usual, trying to be thought provoking.
Guess I'm not pulling it off. LOL

Let me put it this way, when your mag stops shooting what's the pressure gauge say on your tank?

Do you have any idea what the chamber pressure is on the mag?
It has to be enough to do double duty. Not only compress the bolt spring, but also have enough to get past the bolt stem and achieve the standard amount of pressure to get the ball up to speed.

[than205]

Ok, I guess I'm looking at this all wrong. Sorry for wasting forum space. :cheers: Perhaps a better flowing on/off would do the trick?

I don't think the chamber has any trouble refilling quick enough. Particularly, the RT.
Check out the graphs further down on the same thread you referenced. (this is the beauty of the RT)

[11_Mile_TMaster]

Lower pressure would most likely NEGATIVELY effect overall efficency. To get the same velocity you would need a larger dump chamber, and therefore, a slightly larger amount of air would be dumped before the pressure was equalized to the point the return spring would engage to return the bolt. You MIGHT get the same number of shots out of the tank, i.e. you're less efficent but shooting deeper into the tank, but noone knows until it's tried, and it's probably not worth the effort.

The mag's design just doesn't lend itself to lower pressures. Now, if there was a way to more precisely control the bolt open time, i.e. use a 3 way to move the bolt forward/back for a precise amount of time that could help efficency, since you could only hold the bolt forward long enough to get the ball out of the barrel...

[Conversekidz]

the valve already operates at LP.........the only thing we need is better efficiancy.


DING DING DING you hit it right on the head.

We don't need a valve that works at LP we need a valve that is super efficiant.

I think people get the LP/Effeciancy thing confused.

[Enemy]

mags arent super ineffecient its just that they start chuffing at around 1000 psi left in the tank while other markers start having recharge issues are around 600 and lower!! in 400 psi you can get alot of shots off!! thats why people are asking for lp guns so that they work with less pressure required equalling more shots off the tank if all factors are considered equal such as effeciency!!

[MindJob]

This is a pointless discussion with no clear answer.

We live in the age of $2.10/gal gasoline, and everyone drives SUVs that get 15 mpg. (Myself included)

All day air and 15 minute games make the issue of air efficiency irrelevant.

If anyone feels that they cannot last through a game with the air bottle they have, I will sell them a 134cu Paintball Mania tank that I have for a REALLY good price.

[Dayspring]

In some of my discussions with Tom, he's told me that he can make the mag more efficient by reducing the air chamber size. He didn't want to do it because it raises the operating pressure of the gun and "people don't like High Pressure Guns."

The effect of reducing the chamber size would make the operating pressure higher and therefore you couldn't shoot into the tank as deep as you do now. So it's a double edged sword.

[magmonkey]

I think the valve needs re design, however go higher preasure .... make everything smaller lighter, faster opperating, screw a tank regulator full line preasure into the valve and make everythin g 1/4 of the size and make it look nothing like a mag

put it in the hands of a good PRO team and market the hell out if as the newest latest greatest LOW VOLUME valve. have people hype up "low Volume" as the way to go (while both you and I know that low volume means high preasure )


Alan
DC

[Buff]

some of you guys are missing something.
Having a LP valve wont allow you to shoot farther into the tank, sure it might be able to shoot at 400 PSI, but it will take more air per shot, so you will get down to 400 quicker........its not going to make it efficiant.....maby a little.

Its the pressure that hits the paintball that matters........the dump chamber may be at 350-450 PSI......but that gets to travel down the power tube, through the bolt, then hit the paintball. If I remember, Tom said about 80-90PSI hit the paintball. ;)
Anyone think about why Mags are so quiet? there you go.

[Dayspring]

65psi on ball pressure. :)


Its the pressure that hits the paintball that matters........the dump chamber may be at 350-450 PSI......but that gets to travel down the power tube, through the bolt, then hit the paintball. If I remember, Tom said about 80-90PSI hit the paintball. ;)
Anyone think about why Mags are so quiet? there you go.

[than205]

If we're going to follow the arguement that been circulating here forever that no marker will shoot further than another.
And with the usage of Freaks and cocker threaded barrels. (the same barrels that are used on other markers)
Why would there be a more or less (significant) amount of air being used at the ball?
I am not talking about operating (or chamber) pressure. I am talking about what pressure makes it to the ball.

[than205]

65psi on ball pressure. :)

The number that I have seen bounced around has always been 60-90. (for different markers also)
I believe the variance is due to strictly paint/bore match.

[phantomhitman]

i am not knowledgable is this field at all, but i have a question.
why can a viking or my dm5 continue to shoot with around 100 and less psi while other markers cannot? the viking has my vote hands down as the most effecient gun ever made, how do they do that? on a side note, my eblade will not seal properly with around 900psi or less in the tank, is that normal?
also, it is a pain in the butt to go refill your tank when you have around 2k or less air left that way you stay the in the "safe mag zone" of air required to play. that is around every 2-3 games, which does get annoying regardless of having all dair air or not.

[50 cal]

Why does the Automag need better efficiency? You play a game that is only 15 min tops. If you run through a whole tank in such a short game, you need to quit and play something else.
You have 5 on 5 for the most part. If your game is that sad, you need to rethink your strategy.
Playing tournaments I use an 88/45 and have plenty of air left.

[WARPED1]

If AGD made a LP valve, they would sell more mags, because the myth of paintball is lp is better. True or not, it'd sell.

[frontrunner]

AGD doesn't care about hype

[WARPED1]

AGD doesn't care about hype
But they should, more mags would sell. Duh, simple concept.

[Kevmaster]

while AGD didn't make it...an electro low pressure mag was made...but it wasn't efficient.

Shocker

[WARPED1]

while AGD didn't make it...an electro low pressure mag was made...but it wasn't efficient.

Shocker
Boy, thats a stupid, uneducasted, biased statement. The SFT Shocker is nothing like a mah except some looks. The first bolt system did make the gun not efficient, but that has been solved with a new bolt system.
(top pic= old bolt, bottom pic= new bolt)

[SLICEnDICE]

I believe what Kevmaster ment to say was "The Smart Mag" by Smartparts, not the Shocker by the same company. But I could be wrong. Boy was that a piece of marketing hype. There was also a very HP Mag called the Hypermag.(the term"Hyper" should sound fimilar) It had a smaller air chanber and it did get more shots per tank fill. The air chamber was made smaller by ADG and ther was a different spring pack in the reg. The chamber pressures were around 900psi if I remember correctly. Some of us had different inserts for the air chamber depending what type of game was being palyed (indoor, outdoor, 3,5,7, or 10 man)

[WARPED1]

I believe what Kevmaster ment to say was "The Smart Mag" by Smartparts, not the Shocker by the same company. But I could be wrong. Boy was that a piece of marketing hype. There was also a very HP Mag called the Hypermag.(the term"Hyper" should sound fimilar) It had a smaller air chanber and it did get more shots per tank fill. The air chamber was made smaller by ADG and ther was a different spring pack in the reg. The chamber pressures were around 900psi if I remember correctly. Some of us had different inserts for the air chamber depending what type of game was being palyed (indoor, outdoor, 3,5,7, or 10 man)
The Smart Mag was indeed a flop. Mess with AGS's valve and it becomes a steaming pile of poop. Like the hurricane valve.
And, if you're going to say one gun tried to copy another just because they look alike, the first Intimidators were made by using old Spyder bodies Bob had laying around. For that matter, say every blowback marker ever made just is a PMI 3.

[SlartyBartFast]

There was also a very HP Mag called the Hypermag.(the term"Hyper" should sound fimilar) It had a smaller air chanber and it did get more shots per tank fill. The air chamber was made smaller by ADG and ther was a different spring pack in the reg. The chamber pressures were around 900psi if I remember correctly. Some of us had different inserts for the air chamber depending what type of game was being palyed (indoor, outdoor, 3,5,7, or 10 man)

Cool. :cool:

What happened to the idea? Why wasn't it commercialised?

TK has often said that he could make a smaller more efficient marker with higher pressures.

Thing is my knee-jerk reaction is show it or shut-up.

Seems like only so much whining if you can't produce the product, show it's better, and market it correctly.

While I respect Tk and am amazed at what he accomplished, considering the non-functional crap that has been successfully marketed by other companies it always seemed like a defeatest attitude to claim that paintball players were the reason he couldn't develop his ideas.

[Kevmaster]

Boy, thats a stupid, uneducasted, biased statement. The SFT Shocker is nothing like a mah except some looks. The first bolt system did make the gun not efficient, but that has been solved with a new bolt system.
(top pic= old bolt, bottom pic= new bolt)

if i remember riht....both markers use(d) a large dump chamber that when fired, the bolt moves forward to open. the method of filling the dump chamber differs (spool valve vs. on-off assy)

I would hardly compare a shockers looks to a mag, however ;)

[than205]

but....
nobody ever combined a smart mag with a lighter bolt spring? or did they?