Converting from an angel to an SFL e-mag

[Speedy]

Ok, someone help an angel owner to the light. I am considering the conversion from an angel to a SFL e-mag with ace, and warp.

Questions:

1. When will the extreme and SFL e-mag be out with the anti-chop eye?

2. How much will they cost and who will be selling them??

3. What is the feed window I keep reading about?

4. Why should I get the sfl over the agd?

Thanks for any help.
P.S. I have a New(almost) Purple Fly II I will trade. I heard rumors of agd trading at world cup.:D

[AGD]

Come Here My Son I Will Tell You All....(deep booming voice)

Next batch of SFL's will have ACE.

Sold only by Bad Boyz Toyz in Lansing IL for 1375.00

I think the Feed Window you are talking about is "bolt open time". It is the amount of time in the guns shooting cycle that the bolt is open and allowing a paintball to drop in. The more the better. The Warp force feeds the balls and will work with shorter "bolt open times". Closed bolt guns like Cockers have the worst Bolt Open Time.

Get the SFL because you like the way it looks and it's lighter from the milling.

AGD

[Speedy]

$1375.00 for the SFL!!!!!! That is a lot more than I expected. Most Angels are cheaper.(Future e-mag owners heart stops beating)

How much is the AGD extreme and when will they be out??

How much is the AGD air 68/4500? When will it be out?

Can you guys do some kind of package deal for the following:
1.AGD extreme (pewter) with side feed
2.AGD clear warp feed
3.AGD air 68/4500
4.warp battery eliminator and intellifeed thing a magig
Just an idea. I think people like me that are making the switch would be very interested in some sort of discounted package ready to go.I would only need to buy a freak kit and hopper.:D

I meant: What is the trap door feed?:>) sorry

I think my heart just started to beat again.:(
Is there some sort of Angel trade in policy or is that just rumor?

Thanks Rob

[Thordic]

I don't think its all that expensive, considering it includes an ACE.

I mean, sure, some angels might be cheaper, but what you don't realize is this gun outperforms those angels :)

[Speedy]

Let me say I really like the e-mag but in reply to outperforming the angel "that still remains to be seen".

Problems with current e-mags make the resale really really bad.

I don't think I can justify that much money on a gun that is:

a. not proven itself (yet)
b. is probably going to have terrible resale if not all it's talked up to be
c. The timmy has an ace and it isn't breaking records. (This ace craze is like the Lp craze "hype"). I do think the mags rep will greatly benefit from this addition though.

Bottom line is: I am not going to buy one at that price until they have proven to be a very competative marker.

Some of the Jax warriors play at my field from time to time so maybe they will let me try one of theirs when they get them.

Don't Flame. Just my opinion in my thread.

Rob

[MagMan5446]

Problems with the current E-Mag? Never heard of them....anybody care to enlighten me?

An ACE doesn't cost all that much to begin with, if you do it yourself anyway...it's really not all that hard.

[ZeroXtreme]

Can you direct me to some site that has instructions on how to make your own ACE? My friend has a 98Custom and wants to custom build an ACE for it.

Thanks! :)

[X-Plosive]

speedy by any chance do you lvie in Miami and play at strike force?

[AGD]

Speedy,

What did you think it was going to cost?
Why do I have a bunch of people that want to trade me their Angels for Emags? (do a search to see the trade ins)

How much is manual overide worth?
How much is fixing it yourself worth?

Not a flame, just asking nicely.

AGD

[ben_JD]

Originally posted by AGD
How much is manual overide worth?
How much is fixing it yourself worth?

Tom, you are starting to sound like a Visa commercial....priceless.

[ZeroXtreme]

How much is manual overide worth?
How much is fixing it yourself worth?

Tom, you hit it right on the nose...

A couple of the most compeling reasons why I got an E-Mag over an Angel.
Especially with little ol' me livin' all the way over here, no AGD to run to when my electronics screw up, the answer - "Manual Mode." That way I can still use my gun in RT Mode while I ship back my electronics to AGD. :)

[Miscue]

The Retro Valve owns. That's my favorite part of the gun. The Angel's (or any gun for that matter) pneumatics are no match for the Retro. This is the core of your performance, RTs/EMags inarguably win here.

I've put about a dozen cases through Dark Angels... My best friend has two, and I used his spare for a while. The very first time I shot one, I was waiting for the fireworks and fanfare... partly due to the incessant "OOOoooh... DAAARRKK AAANGGGEELLLL" 's that my other blind-firing chiropractor buddy who is more of a spectator than a player would regularly say as he showed off his DA. :)

"Whoa! This thing vibrates!" That was about the most impressive thing that I found really. Given, it shoots pretty good, and pretty fast, I didn't run into many problems... but it's not a big deal either. I was happy to go back to my considerably smaller Hyperframe-Mag once Centerflag sent it back, and didn't miss the DA at all. I wouldn't mind having one though, and would have one if I had the money...

I'm not just saying this because I'm a big AGD fan (I'm a fan because the stuff is so gosh dangit good, not because it's fashionable), but I was very impressed with the EMag trigger when my gun finally arrived. After I messed with it a bit, it got even better. It's so good it should be a fad. Maybe only among paintball connoisseurs for now.

Useless features - Angel wins here. Useful Features, EMag hands down.

[Speedy]

x-plosive: No I live about 45minutes outside of Jacksonville. (I used to live in jax).

AGD: I thought it would cost around $1100.00 for the sfl and around $1000.00 for the extreme.

Manual overide is worthless to me really. The angels battery is good for something crazy like 300,000 shots. These guns don't break and if something happens warped sportz is in Jax.

I can fix my angel myself as a matter of fact no one has ever worked on any of my guns. Angels are more reliable than the mags I have seen (my experience). Before you say that it is the owner remember I've seen some of the Jax Warriors pro's play.

Miscue: I agree with you the Angel is a very over rated gun. Hell the thing should run to the bunker and shoot by itself for the money you have to pay. I sold my cocker to get my new angel and although I think it is a nice gun my cocker shot better and cost a whole lot less. The one thing that I really like is the micro-switch trigger, other than that I am disappointed in the upgrade. That is exactly why I will not buy an SFL for that money.

______________________________
The Problem here is that "all" of the paintball guns are getting way to expensive. The B2k2 and the timmy are the only two guns that really have any bang for the buck anymore. What high-end marker is less than a $1000.00?

:mad:

I am not trying to flame or beat up any gun. I am just telling you how I feel. I am probably not the only one that feels this way. The price for the new E-mag (IMHO) is to high plain and simple. I will just wait to see if it is as good as I hope. Depending on what the resale is I might just buy a used one for cheap after a couple of months. Who knows I may just sell everything and forget about paintball(it is getting to expensive).

[bornl33t]

the problem with the LP hype was... it WAS just hype.. there was no performance gain from going LP... but the ACE is PROVEN to effect you're gun positivly and if tested properly like only AGD can do it can be tweaked to increase feedrate without chop.
Me thinks that the 1350$ pricetag is a little high BUT me also thinks that it's just MSRP??? right ? wrong ? AND just like all markers it will decrease in price as they become more common. You can buy mildly used E-mags for an EASY 800$ right now.

Mag's haven't proven themselves? Just because they haven't been available till recently in "rainbow bright" anodize that everyone seems to think increases performance ( the same reason why a civic with YELLOW stipes goes faster then a non pee'd on civic ), doesn't mean that they are less reliable. Besides... what came first? Mag or angel? What is making big strides in improvements?

By the way, what's you're anual salary like?

[Manuel_FZR]

I think the 1350$ are verry high, but in my eyes, the SFL is the ultimate marker, and look at some custom cockers, there you have somnetimes the same/higher price!!! :confused:
So, if I could buy the SFL in Germany, I would! And I would spend the 1350$
Go to your Dealer and buy the SFL with ACE, a Warp, a Hopper, the Flatline 4.5k and he will give you a good price ;)

[Dragoon]

Hey guys Speedy has some good points here.

I used to own a Dark Angel and switched to an Emag. I made the switch for a couple of reasons.

1. As you pointed out Speedy (and some others) the Angel has a lot of hype. I liked the trigger and it was very reliable. I used it for a whole tournament year with any problems/malfunctions. That aside I found it hard to hit people within 1-3 shots. I tended to have to rapid fire in order to get on target. Now that may have been mostly me, but I didn't like the way it made me play.

2. I really liked the manual override on the Emag. I think this is one of the main selling points of the marker. It's a great safety and one that I have used in a game because I forgot to charge up the battery on the way to the tournament (user error for sure, but the marker compensated).

3. The reputation of AGD is unmatched (an opinion of mine). Here I'm referring to the quality of the workmanship, function of design and customer service. I like being backed up by a company that is as dedicated to it's customers as AGD

4. I want function in a marker, without the hype. I know that AGD markers do not have the resale of others in the same class. I do not think this is due to performance, but more with marketing and trends. AGD has always produced items with function in mind not marketing. Given the choice I'll take the underrated marker over the expensive hyped one.

5. The last thing that influenced my switch was innovation. Of all the companies out there producing products for paintball, none think and design outside of the "box" as do AGD. They are very innovative in their approach, and produce products that give players an edge (The warp my not look that great, but I love the fact that not many of my opponents are using them. I think the warp is the best innovation since HPA. It with out a doubt gives me an edge in a game because of the reduced profile it gives).


Speedy, I realize I sound somewhat fanatical, but it is not blind devotion. In terms of making the switch, I would suggest picking up a used Emag. I think you'll find you get great bang for your buck ($700-$800 stock, around $1000 with warp and extras). The SFL has the option of interchangeable breachs, and will soon have the ACE. Other than that your paying for milling, anno, and a little reduced weight.

Hope this helps (this is very unlike me to be so vocal!)

Douglas.

[Speedy]

Heat: Annual Salary? Why would you want to know that? It is not enough to justify paying $1350.00 for a paintball gun. That is why I am selling all my gear I have now. I have really nice new equipment, but I can't afford paint.

Dragoon: Yea, I am probably going to wait until the extreme mags start to show up used and then buy one. I have seen standard e-mags selling for $1000.00 with warp,hopper, and air. I will just wait until I can find great deals like this on extremes. I had a guy offer me a ptp e-mag, warp, hopper, intellicable, flame drop and battery eliminator for my Angel. I really want an extreme so I will just have to wait.

One thing that concerns me is how good is the eye with different paints? The timmy is good with the ace but it isn't the fix all.

I am really considering buying something cheap and spending more money on paint.;)

Honestly, I think that the SFL is probably an additional expense that is not necessary. The milling isn't really that great (it is better than the extreme) when you compare it to competitivey priced angels. What else does it offer other than a boomstick; that I would replace with a freak set.

AGD: How much are the extremes going to sell for and what barrel do they come with?
How much will the AGD 68/4500 air sell for?
When will these items be readily available?

Thanks for all the help and info.
Hats OFF to this wonderful forum. You guys provide constructive criticism without flaming people for their opinions (I am a member of pbnation and those guys really act like kids sometimes)!!

[Dragoon]

Hope to see you around Speedy.

Douglas.

[AngelBoy]

I dont own an emag, but ive shot them. I chopped so many balls in them, but that was because the hopper couldnt keep up. After I got used to the trigger I could rip so much faster than I can with my angel, and without a warp its a bad thing. I like the Angel microswitch, but the manual mode on the emags are worth more. Angels are incredibly overrated, and I wish I had bought a different gun like an emag or now demonic impulse, and then I could spend the rest of the money on a good air system, hopper, warp, etc...

Speedy, you point out some good points. The only problem I've seen with emags is when people start to do stuff to them. But I think that $1350 is a fairly reasonable price considering what people pay for Angels.

[Speedy]

Angels are way overpriced so you can't compare the price of the e-mag to the angel. This is my first angel and to be quite honest it doesn't perform any better than my 99 autococker did (paint to barrel match is key).

Yea, it looks awesome and is very light. The angel even has a bunch of features that are neat and useless. The angel even shoots 20 bps, but I can't afford that much paint. My finger is only good for about 11 BPS so who cares.

If I don't get an extreme then I will just buy a mid-level gun. I don't play any better with my $1400.00 Angel. HYPE! HYPE! and more HYPE!

P.S. I will get an extreme somehow!

I just found out my Fly II is a 2K2!!!
Does anyone want to trade for an SFL emag w/ace and warp?

Tom will you trade me an extreme w/ace, agd 68/45 and matching warp for my 1 mo. old 2k2 Fly II and brand new Freak kit??????

:D Rob:D

[Dubstar112]

If I don't get an extreme then I will just buy a mid-level gun. I don't play any better with my $1400.00 Angel. HYPE! HYPE! and more HYPE!


You said it your self, and since you dont want to keep your 1400 dollar angel, what gives you the idea that a 1375 dollar EMAG is going to be any better- Its not(for the amount of paint it throws), and since you are going to a lower level gun, the emag is in no way lower- look into a lower class gun like you said.. easier on the paint budget.

look into a mechanical marker.. like a mag, cocker,.. the only mid range markers there that are mechanical

[BlackVCG]

$1375 is a lot for the SFL, but you're paying for the name and the milling. Take a look at it this way. The standard E-Mag MSRP is $1250. You can find standard black E-Mags going for about $900. Granted, I doubt you'll ever find the SFL for about $1000, you have to keep in mind it's a specialty gun and it will continue to cost that much as long as people pay the price.

My advice would be to wait for the Xtreme and get one of those and use the cost savings between the Xtreme and the SFL on an air system, barrels and paint. The Xtreme will come with the same options as the SFL (ACE, removable breech, etc.) minus the milling and name. You can get an SFL now, but it depends on how much you want it. They're still pretty new to the market, so expect to pay full price for one. The Xtreme I should think will retail around $1100... maybe a bit less, maybe more.

Then there's the trap door feed E-Mag (The one shown in the prototype section on the front page) This will have ACE, cocker threads, be all aluminum and be built for Warp Feed only. We should be looking at this one coming out some time next year. Could be the middle or the end of the year, I have no idea.

So your options are open to you. You can get an SFL now, without the ACE and get it once it is released, you can wait on the Xtreme, which will debut with the ACE, or you can wait on the trap door feed E-Mag. Many flavors to choose from, just depends on how bad you want one and if you're willing to wait. No matter what you chose, you will be satisfied and have a gun supported by a great company and this forum to come to for all your questions.

Good luck on your choice and don't be afraid to ask questions.

[Slapp]

Speedy, "high end, bleeding edge" markers are probably overkill for 90% of the people who use them but hey, when you are hooked you are hooked. Ha!

While the prices of these high end markers appears high indeed, keep in mind that each piece is custom designed, extensively researched (at least with AGD products) and produced in relatively small batches so manufacturers do not get the cost efficiencies of huge production runs. Tom made an interesting point in the tech class. Paintball guns are made to quality standards that allow them to fire litterally thousands and thousands of rounds over their useful life. By comparison, real guns, even high quality rifles such as hunting rifles or something like an M-16 would be totally trashed after a fraction of that many cycles. In a way, you are getting what you pay for, a highly engineered, custom piece of equipment that performs to extreemly tight tolerances, under a variety of conditions.

I may not end up buying an angel or SFL e-mag but I kind of understand better why they cost what they do after attending AGD's tech class.

I'm building a retro-valve, power feed minimag, tossing a 12 volt revvy and a 68/3000 flatline on it with a 12" freak barrel. If I cant take you out first with that in anything other than the highest level of competition (and even there most likely) the shortfall is with my game and not my equipment. For me, this configuration adds up to the sweet spot of reliability, performance and bang for the buck!

Find your own sweet spot bro and don't worry if that is not at the bleeding edge of state of the art paintball markers. You can buy equipment but you can't buy skillz!

[mac2k4]

if ya say the angel is overrated, and ya can't lkeep it do to price, well why would ya buy a xtreme mag? the fly costs about 12. so your going to get a emag xtreme for 1375? and ya say you didn't do any better than w/ your ocker huh?
then get another cocker....
who cares what gun ya have, oh well ya can have 23modes, turn to mechanical cause your dumb azz doesn't charge battery or it just fires, your gun is 5.5oz lighter or what ever, if ya played better with your danm cocker get your coker back!
who care what others think, if ya can shoot people out with your cocker the ndo it.

[FeelTheRT]

Speedy, if u buy an Emag, you wanna sell ur Fly ?

[z-zero]

I don't play paintball because I have a nice gun, or the newest thing on the block. Paintball is not about what equipment we use but about how we play. 90% of the info I find on paintball is about equipment not the game. I'd like to see a market driven by the sport of it not the hype. The only way this can happen is by players being players not consumers. Just some thoughts. :D

z-zero