Interpreting Sig rules

[Aegis]

Let's say this was my Sig -


Serving AGD customers since 93, wishing I could beat some common sence into some of them about 5 hrs later.

(cphilip) Cool I am screwing the hellout of it and its getting better!
(Army) I gots boobs! well, little tiny ones, but gosh are they firm!
(TNS2k2) yeah, my ARM really got pummeled
(TNS2k2) I just took it.
(Crazy) Curly
(Crazy) i'd do it with you.

(Miscue) I should have studied genetics and figured out how to take the witch gene out of hoes.
(BlackVCG) Not possible.

(Mister44): dude
(Mister44): SCREW YOU
(Rob_AGD):
(Mister44): i offered to suck his penis


Would I get banned?

[alooney11]

What in tarnation?

[Enemy]

i dont know but im sure we will find out!!!

[TeamNausea]

if this is closed or deleted when u check back yes...if not still probably yes lol but give it a go

[Load SM5]

None of it would get you banned, but the last exchange is a little over the top for a sig. You are'nt allowed to have a paragraph of text in your sig, though. A few lines is fine.

[Blazestorm]

Good ol days of chat... *cries*...

Viagra incident anyone... :rofl:

[Z-man]

SO IT BEGINS!

TO WAR!!!!!!!

[Steelrat]

So that wouldn't get you banned? I am a little confused about what rules you can break and earn a ban, and which rules you can break, and its okay.

So this is okay:


• No racial, religious, or sexually inflammatory language

But this is not:


• Do not try to circumvent a ban placed on you

[shartley]

Does anyone else find it ironic that a Moderator already stated that if what was posted in the first post was put in a signature it would not be allowed because of its sexual content…. But it is still being allowed in the first post? Did the content change because it was NOT in a signature? ;)

And why do so many seem to work so hard to get around rules or to bring things to the edge… as opposed to simply following the rules? The rules are not that hard, nor are they that hard to understand. Maybe one of the rules should be “If you can’t understand the rules, you can not post here.”

[Load SM5]

SO IT BEGINS!

TO WAR!!!!!!!

I hope not. I suspect it is but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.


So that wouldn't get you banned? I am a little confused about what rules you can break and earn a ban, and which rules you can break, and its okay.

So this is okay:



But this is not:

As I stated I would interpret the last line as a little over the top for a sig. You'd get it removed from your sig and a get a warning. Despite what you guys think we don't ban for everything. We dish out a crapload more warnings. But circumventing a ban definately gets you a longer ban. I would think that's common sense.


Does anyone else find it ironic that a Moderator already stated that if what was posted in the first post was put in a signature it would not be allowed because of its sexual content…. But it is still being allowed in the first post? Did the content change because it was NOT in a signature? ;)

Nope as I said I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's actually legitimately curious. If I simply erase it then no one learns anything.

By the way chat is a little more loosely moderated. You can't really drag chat logs onto the main forums and expect them all to fly just because they were in chat.

[phantomhitman]

most, if not all, of those were in ao chat which is outside of the main forum. i have no clue if the rules transfer over to that, but apparently not. there are a few people that have those in the sigs, and have had them for a while. :ninja:

[RobAGD]

Also it my Sig.

Its long and it almost never gets posted. Only post that my sig shows up in are older post where I didnt have it turned off. The last part is a bit on the edge and was put there as a joke with Mister44, I happen to love taking chat blurbs and putting them in my sig outta context. Tom has asked me in the past to remove some lines from my sig so I did.

You would be hard pressed to find a somewhat current post from me with a sig attached, unless somehow I just missed it. I turn my sig off. Unlike a lot of peoples sigs you dont see it every time I post in a thread.

You also need to take that into account when you want to pick nits.

-Robert

[Steelrat]

Also it my Sig.

Its long and it almost never gets posted. Only post that my sig shows up in are older post where I didnt have it turned off. The last part is a bit on the edge and was put there as a joke with Mister44, I happen to love taking chat blurbs and putting them in my sig outta context. Tom has asked me in the past to remove some lines from my sig so I did.

You would be hard pressed to find a somewhat current post from me with a sig attached, unless somehow I just missed it. I turn my sig off. Unlike a lot of peoples sigs you dont see it every time I post in a thread.

You also need to take that into account when you want to pick nits.

-Robert

Yes, but its still accessable from the forum, and a part of your AO profile page, correct? It would seem to me that it still violates the rule.

Is it the crime of the century? No, but its fair to point out that such things are over looked in some cases, and harshly dealth with in others.

[RobAGD]

If a sig is never seen, its not pointed out. Ageis likes to bring up things to try and make some kind of point.

I dont go looking for sigs issues, I get way too many damn PM's about them and notes in chat about them.

and to be honest in teh conext that I am using the word penis its not I think a violation of teh rules and I wouldn't edit or ban the user for it.

Load may see a problem and agin you will see how differnt people see the rules.


Is my sig pushing the content rule Yes, IS it Breaking it "I" dont think so. I also think people will make a bigger deal out of it than needs to be because #1 I am admin and #2 they have some kind of ax to grind.

BTW - if your sig is never post and is only seen when people click on your profile I could care less about how long it is. Its when its in every post that it because an issue.

-Robert

[Steelrat]

If a sig is never seen, its not pointed out. Ageis likes to bring up things to try and make some kind of point.

I dont go looking for sigs issues, I get way too many damn PM's about them and notes in chat about them.

and to be honest in teh conext that I am using the word penis its not I think a violation of teh rules and I wouldn't edit or ban the user for it.

Load my see a problem and agin you will see how differnt people see the rules.


Is my sig pushing the content rule Yes, IS it Breaking it "I" dont think so. I also think people will make a bigger deal out of it than needs to be because #1 I am admin and #2 they have some kind of ax to grind.

BTW - if your sig is never post and is only seen when people click on your profile I could care less about how long it is. Its when its in every post that it because an issue.

-Robert

How is "I offered to suck his penis" any different from an acronym like (and I am not supporting the use of this, just posting it as an example) EMBSTC?

And yes, Aegis is trying to make a point, and I think its a good one. The application of rules is inconsistant, and that makes the insistance on supporting certain bans a difficult position to support.

[shartley]

Sorry, but this thread just demonstrates part of the problem on AO…. Interpretation of rules and selective enforcement. ALL the rules apply to ALL members, be they Admin, Moderators, or lowly members…. Be they popular or be they not.

I fully understand that some folks bring up things because they have an axe to grind, but that does not make the things brought up any less valid.

I don’t see anywhere in the rules where it states that if your signature is not attached to your post that it does not need to follow the clearly posted rules. If this is the case, then can we please have that added to the rules? How about if we use pornography in our signatures? Is that also fine as long as we don’t actually use our signatures when posting? How about outright flaming of other members, or even swearing?

The hardest thing about enforcing rules is that those who enforce them must also follow them…. with NO exceptions. They can not pick and choose what they want to follow and what they don’t want to follow, and when it is pointed out that they have indeed broke the rules they can’t make up some story and excuse for their actions. And they can’t do things that other moderators would punish the general membership for doing. Or CAN they? It looks that way on AO.

When this thread was posted, I thought it was just a “what if”, not an actuality. Now knowing that it was a real signature and one that belongs to an Admin, it becomes crystal clear why Load said what he did about it. If he deleted the content which is against AO rules, he would have stepped right on another Admin’s toes and shown that the Admin WAS in violation of the rules.

Didn’t we learn anything about selective enforcement of rules with this last blowup? I have nothing against Rob. What I have a problem with is the blatant double standards this thread has shown. What should have happened is that Rob immediately remove the signature from AO, or edited out the content which IS against AO rules. But instead he tried to make it look like the person who pointed it out was wrong for doing so. And most of us know for a fact that if that was in MY signature, or just about anyone else’s, Rob himself (or another Moderator) would be right on it with a Ban, or a warning at the least and told to remove it.

Some people may think Admin and Moderators should be held to higher standards then the general membership. I will not argue that. But I will argue that they should be at least held to the SAME standards as the general membership.

[Lohman446]

Come now Shartley, I work on police cars and know the officers around here fairly well both on and off duty. How often are police vehicles making test "radio runs" well in excess of the speed limit without emergency indicators on and for really no purpose other than to get someplace quicker. How many officers routinely ignore the speed limit both on duty and in there personal vehicles without any concern of speeding tickets. Is it right, that in the county I live in 90% of the officers would not write me a ticket? Face it, especially with moderators here, those giving up there time without pay to moderate this may be entitled to some leniency, right or wrong. Is it fair? Most definelty not... but to quote something "Life's tough, get a helmet".

Disclaimer that I seem to have to make as of late: This is honestly meant to advance discussion, not to be rude or mean, I apologize now if it is. There is a side to this that a lot of people don't want to see, I am trying to see both sides and bring up the second, even if I do not agree totally with it.

[RobAGD]

You all have selective enforcment on the brain.

Its NOT a matter of selective enforcment, It a matter of how the rules are read and when more than 1 human is involved in making a desision on how something should be taken you will get a differnt responce from each, given that persons experance.

The part of my sig that is questionable is that, the way I read the rules its not, the way load or MarkM may read them it maybe. TO be honest I dont care if they edit something out of my sig or turn the sig off for that post. Unlike way too many people on AO I am not going to piss and moan about it. People need to get over it.

An intresting aside, for some reason when I post from my palm it wont let me turn off the sigs :(

-Robert

[shartley]

Come now Shartley, I work on police cars and know the officers around here fairly well both on and off duty. How often are police vehicles making test "radio runs" well in excess of the speed limit without emergency indicators on and for really no purpose other than to get someplace quicker. How many officers routinely ignore the speed limit both on duty and in there personal vehicles without any concern of speeding tickets. Is it right, that in the county I live in 90% of the officers would not write me a ticket? Face it, especially with moderators here, those giving up there time without pay to moderate this may be entitled to some leniency, right or wrong. Is it fair? Most definelty not... but to quote something "Life's tough, get a helmet".

Disclaimer that I seem to have to make as of late: This is honestly meant to advance discussion, not to be rude or mean, I apologize now if it is. There is a side to this that a lot of people don't want to see, I am trying to see both sides and bring up the second, even if I do not agree totally with it.
You are correct. I will also point out that police don’t write tickets every time they see someone doing something wrong either.

I will ALSO point out that if a citizen sees an officer breaking the law, and it is proven that there was no valid reason to do so, the officer does not blame the citizen for pointing it out. Action is taken, even if only a warning given to the officer.

This is the same case now. An “officer” was caught clearly breaking the rules. A “citizen” pointed it out. Now correct the problem. It was not the member who was wrong. Officers can not blatantly break the law, and neither can Moderators and Admin. What they do unseen and unreported by the general population is different than what they do when in clear sight and what is reported.

And guess what? I have known officers who have lost their jobs because they got caught by the general public doing things that were wrong/illegal. The whole thing hinges on whether they get caught. And this time an Admin got caught.

Is it a big deal?

Heck no.

But to act like the one who caught them was WRONG, or that they didn’t DO anything wrong is a slap in the face to the general membership…. More so after this last big blowup. Rob needs to simply remove the content from his signature and have a nice day. No harm, no foul. But he didn’t. And THAT is the problem as much as it not being enforced to begin with.

And the Moderators and Admin here do NOT deserve special leniency because they don’t get paid to do their jobs here. They knew it was volunteer work when they accepted the job. This is not taking away from the importance of their jobs or what they do. It is simply pointing out that if they don’t want to follow the rules, they should first of all NOT be in the positions they are in, and second, they should not be members of this forum….. regardless of whether they are paid or not.

[Lohman446]

I will gladly agree with you on one thing here Sam... but before I do let me take an aside. When I point to the odd side of an argument it does not mean that I endorse it, I think it important to understand both sides of situations before making a judgement. I try to avoid making a judgement on these boards, though it seems I often do anyways.

Back to what we agree on. Things lately have been getting out of hand, people are getting upset over the little stuff. I can barely make a post in consideration of what would be a non-popular view point without having someone blow up (not you). People... if things are wrong and they are minor, correct them, move on... lets get over this making issues out of everything.

[shartley]

I will gladly agree with you on one thing here Sam... but before I do let me take an aside. When I point to the odd side of an argument it does not mean that I endorse it, I think it important to understand both sides of situations before making a judgement. I try to avoid making a judgement on these boards, though it seems I often do anyways.

Back to what we agree on. Things lately have been getting out of hand, people are getting upset over the little stuff. I can barely make a post in consideration of what would be a non-popular view point without having someone blow up (not you). People... if things are wrong and they are minor, correct them, move on... lets get over this making issues out of everything.
I agree.

[Steelrat]

A person who has been a member for a while and received a permenant ban is not a little thing, at least in my opinion.

[Muzikman]

If the person was offended or wanted to clarify a sig rule, shouldn't they have not just PMed a mod? If you see a cop breaking the law and you go to the news paper and post it publicly I am sure that cop will blame that citizen, not for pointing it out, but for making it public.

And why can people not get over this LPB crap?

[Lohman446]

A person who has been a member for a while and received a permenant ban is not a little thing, at least in my opinion.

When I say you in this post, I don't necessarily mean you, I cared so little about the problems that I didn't look at names involved deeply, just watched it with the sick awe of a train wreck.

And here comes one of those unpopular opinions, though this one I admit to accepting as true.

If we are referring to LPB he was temp banned for a flame of another member, a clear violation of the rules.

He then circumvented a ban and made a public post - and was perm banned as a result according to teh rules - now I'm told there is more to why he was banned, but these seem to be the facts that everyone can agree to.

Rather than dealing with the moderators privately a select group of people decided to make this there cause and had a hissy fit on the boards in public, in direct challenge to the moderators.

Had these people been proper, and discussed it privately rather than having a pissing contest with the moderators we would probably have LPB back now.. instead they won't let this die out of the public members of these boards eyes. If this was allowed to die down, to be let go, and to get over it - LPB might be allowed to come back in time (I don't know that, not a moderator), but if you continue to make this issue the center of attention, if you continue to make this an issue to challenge the moderators over than he will not be.

What have we gained in our current pissing contests with the mods (not all surrounding LPB)- you have likely lost the most lenient moderator, the one most likely to undo a permanent ban. You have made it an "us" vs "them" issue with the moderators, and forced the moderators into a corner. Now they are sticking together, the chances of having a perm ban overturned right this moment, at least to me... miniscule. If you let this situation die down, and get forgotten - you stand a chance.

Personally, I think if you had all grown up, and handled the situation like adults rather than like my four year old it would be over, we would have LPB back and we could have all moved on. You chose to make it a public "my clique is so important you have to listen and the rules don't apply to me" contest. Sure your going to find things the moderators have done as wrong, and things I have done and said in the past as wrong, as well as many others. They are let go because when we are called on them we apologize, accept our punishment (if any), don't circumvent our punishment, and let it move into the past.

So get over it, LPB was banned for violation of the rules - he was perma banned for something that is obvious - he circumvented a ban. If some people would shut up and let things calm down then you might get him back, keep it a topic of everyday conversation what choice do you leave the mods? To bring him back is to pronounce that clique above the rules... let time be on your side, quit forcing them into this contest, your not going to win with your current tactics, try something else like letting things die down.

[shartley]

If the person was offended or wanted to clarify a sig rule, shouldn't they have not just PMed a mod? If you see a cop breaking the law and you go to the news paper and post it publicly I am sure that cop will blame that citizen, not for pointing it out, but for making it public.

And why can people not get over this LPB crap?
Until Rob posted, I thought it was only a “what if”, not an actual infraction by someone on the forums… let alone an Admin. So until Rob came forward, I doubt most people would have even known any different.

Also, I am sure that the author of the thread probably felt that if he took it to PM nothing would be done, and possibly something negative would be directed at him for it.

But I agree, folks need to get over the LPB “thing”. Those of us who have been around for a few years know that there have been times when Permanent Bans have been lifted and people allowed to post again. But it will never happened when the scab is picked at constantly.

For me though, this thread is not about LPB, but about the rules being applied to EVEYONE and evenly. Which is clearly not being done, even after all the mess we just went though. You would think folks would learn (and Admin are included in “folks”), but clearly they don’t. :nono:

But oh well.... :dance:

[RobAGD]

Sam, it would be a an issue if I had broken the rules, I have not.

As to the EMBSTC issue is the fact that what that is meant to be inflamatory towards a member of the forums.

Also the differnace is the following :

Mister44 said he offered to suck the penis

Emagballer never said such and someone was making a person attack on his person by making that referance.

-Robert

[Lohman446]

Sam, it would be a an issue if I had broken the rules, I have not.

-Robert

What's scary is I was going to call BS on that one... and I read the rules closely looking for the rule it was in violation of. I couldn't find one specific rule that it clearly violated, even if I personally think it would be best not to be there. Figures that mod. would know the rules betterthan me :wow:

[Army]

However...I still have nice firm little boobs.

:D

[RobAGD]

However...I still have nice firm little boobs.

:D

Why yes you Do Dave yes you Do :)

Hahha

-R

[Eric Cartman]

I'm dyin' to get an "In before the lock" in here, but I'll try to add something worthwhile as well so as not to annoy Rob. ;)

If Rob says he hasn't broken any rules with his sig, then I think we have to accept that. I certainly think that some of the content in the sig would result in a warning from some of the other mods. If anyone feels strongly enough about this, then copy some of the content from his sig and make it your own and see if anything happens to it... then again, you could just let it go as it's really not a big deal.

Here's a serious question. Does anyone know if LPB has attempted to contact any of the mods and offer a sincere appology for his actions and ask to be reinstated? I'm not getting into whether or not he should have to, and whether or not his perm ban was justified. I'm just wondering if he's made any sincere effort to return to AO. Just curious.

[Eric Cartman]

However...I still have nice firm little boobs.

:D

Where's the "this thread is useless without pics" gif when you need it? :D

Just kidding, I have no desire whatsoever to see Army's boobs, regardless of how firm they may be!

[shartley]

I will admit when I am wrong. Rob, you are correct, you didn’t break any of the rules as they are written….. word for word.

I stand corrected….. but not for the betterment of AO. And that is so very sad.

Be warned though that you have just opened up a can that will not be so easy to close……. I hope being technically correct was worth it, because the spirit of AO’s Rules just took a black eye, and to me, so did the forums themselves.

[Kevmaster]

If all the mods/admins 'get back' from modding AO is a little leniency and courtesy from other mods and the ability to stretch the rules just a wee bit to fit what they're doing, I certainly think we are all still getting a great deal for the mods we have.

They do so much and work quite quite hard, and thats all they get in return from us? A little frickin unquestionability? Thats a great bargin....a great ****ing bargin.

[Muzikman]

That's it....Ban Kevmaster...there are *'s in his post! I want a perm ban damnit!

[Lohman446]

Be warned though that you have just opened up a can that will not be so easy to close……. I hope being technically correct was worth it, because the spirit of AO’s Rules just took a black eye, and to me, so did the forums themselves.

Agreed.. and my posts just got a whole lot more fun, basically as long as I don't flame anyone, activate the curse filter, or circumvent the curse filter I'm good.. This is going to be fun. Where I thought some of my posts before pushed the rules I found out I was a long way from them, apparently there is no "spirit" of the rules, but only as they are written. I'm not complaining about this at all actually.

PS - I still think the mods deserve some leniency for there service, though I understand the other view point very well and see its merit. And no, I'm not trying to be a jerk towards Rob here, regardless of what I may come off as.

[Thordic]

I find it ironic that my signature was singled out for linking to material off AO that was "sexually inappropriate". (That was one of the complaints that was mentioned time and time again, especially by Rob. That there was a thread with a sexually explicit title that seemed to draw a lot of ire from mods here)

I guess this is "sexually appropriate" then. I'm glad now I know the difference.

[Z-man]

If we are referring to LPB he was temp banned for a flame of another member, a clear violation of the rules.

Yep no argument here


He then circumvented a ban and made a public post - and was perm banned as a result according to the rules - now I'm told there is more to why he was banned, but these seem to be the facts that everyone can agree to.

Yep when he made his new account to PM Cphill his posted a public message as well. Another mistake.


Rather than dealing with the moderators privately a select group of people decided to make this there cause and had a hissy fit on the boards in public, in direct challenge to the moderators.

Sounds like how DiRtY BuNnY has survived around here through his many bans.


They do so much and work quite quite hard, and that’s all they get in return from us? A little frickin unquestionably? That’s a great bargain....a great ****ing bargain.

Yep. They got the job I don't want. They get to make the no fun calls and deal with the crap from it. Sorta like (it should be) in public office. more work, more responsibility.


Now what have do have to add to the
pissing is this:

It seems a shame that there are only 3-10 day bans and that the next tier is perm ban. Go ahead ban me for 10 days. I got the rest of the Internet and all the computer work in the world to do and I'm not going to notice 10 days that much.

Month-year ban? That is significant. 1 Month ban for that kinda thing is long enough to be super annoying to me but not so long that I would just leave and not come back (if it is meant to be a punishment not an expulsion: which is clearly the case.)


AO, at least for me, exists because I want to come here to chat show off to a certain group of people here. I don’t come for the people I don't like and I don't come because it's the only place I can go.

If you take away the people I want to chat with (which is your right as it's YOUR site not mine) I have no reason to be here. There ARE other places to go. I would prefer to stay here because it's home. You have to pick your fights. (mods and pissing group is this worth loosing to you?[/i]

In this case, Ill step out and say yes. I would like to see LPB back. "When" is your call. May I suggest you reconsider never as a poor choice.

[Steelrat]

Actually, my understanding is that LPB got a temp ban for two sig violations. Without knowing what was going on, he made a new account, and PM'd a mod. At the same time he apparently made two posts, one of which was apparently inflammatory, which he deleted on his own. The other was regarding an upcoming Norcal event.

Why won't I get over it? Because I think it is ridiculous that the mods brought back pretty much everyone that was recently banned EXCEPT for him, even though he takes full responsiblity for what he did. I also think that it is hipocritical to try and defend using the phrase "suck my dick" as being completely appropriate. I can think of a whole slew of phrases along similar lines involving licking, eating, and sucking various objects, am I to believe that such phrases are allowable now?

Plus, LPB is a friend who I have played with multiple times, and I stick up for my friends when I think they have been wronged.

[Lohman446]

Actually, my understanding is that LPB got a temp ban for two sig violations. Without knowing what was going on, he made a new account, and PM'd a mod. At the same time he apparently made two posts, one of which was apparently inflammatory, which he deleted on his own. The other was regarding an upcoming Norcal event.

Why won't I get over it? Because I think it is ridiculous that the mods brought back pretty much everyone that was recently banned EXCEPT for him, even though he takes full responsiblity for what he did. I also think that it is hipocritical to try and defend using the phrase "suck my dick" as being completely appropriate. I can think of a whole slew of phrases along similar lines involving licking, eating, and sucking various objects, am I to believe that such phrases are allowable now?

Plus, LPB is a friend who I have played with multiple times, and I stick up for my friends when I think they have been wronged.


You do understand the argument.. had you waited this long and then asked privately, that he would probably be back now right? You seldom win against those in authoritative positions in public arguments, though you will find, in private they are just people, and often prone to compromise.

As for the phrases that are acceptable, based on Rob's interpertation I now beleive as long as I do not flame anyone, as long as it is not a pickup line, and as long as I don't activate or circumvent the cuss filter its ok. I think its a bad step in the lines of AO... I think it could have been handled better, but apparently the rules are as they are written, by letter, not be spirit.

[RobAGD]

Steelrat -

LPB was warned then had no less than 2 additional sig violations. Then he created an accountand posted under that account. He was banned and then perm banned. Those arethe rules on that issue. As an added plus he has gotten severalof his "friends" banned as well for usingthier accounts and making once again un acceptable sigs.

I dont think that shows any sign of being sorry for what he did.

He was not banned in the issue with Throdic, he was banned for other reasons. Get over it.

-R

[RobAGD]

I think its a bad step in the lines of AO... I think it could have been handled better, but apparently the rules are as they are written, by letter, not be spirit.

Here is the problem. We tried the spirit thing and everyong have a fit because it was too vauge or not spelled out that its not in the rules etc etc. So where does that leave us ? You can't have it both ways.

AO is forging its own path to hell.

-Robert

[Steelrat]

Get over it.

-R

Nice.

EDIT: As for AO, this comes to mind...

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

[Aegis]

Well, thanks for keeping this thread open for this long. I think there is something missing, though.

As a member of AO I have some concerns. Obviously it has to do with the rules, and obviously it was brought on by LPB' ban. But as far as I know it is a perma-ban, so we must move forward.

Again, I am also a member here. So if I have legitimate questions about what is going to happen moving forward then it should be OK to ask. In my first effort, the response was "I assume you are talking about LPB" and the thread was locked. This one is going in the same direction.

Admittedly, the topic of this post might not have been the best way to broach the issue. I was irritated. However, it did jump out at me when I was looking into how one would contact a moderator.

The questions I still have are

- how can you be banned without violating the rules?

- If you are, how do you communicate with the mods to discuss it?

- And now, one more - Why can't I, as a member of AO, ask these questions and get a straight answer?


I am a big supporter of moderated forums, and I understand that it can be difficult. As a parent and a businessman, I also understand the importance of being consistent, and of being able to admit when you are wrong, or at least to have an open mind.

As far as the "Clique" comment, I understand where you might be coming from, but realize that the AO NorCal bunch is rather unique in that we actually know each other and meet in person to play paintball on occasion. This is due to AO, for which I will always be grateful. This is the friendliest bunch of 'ballers you will ever meet, and all are welcome. That is also why people get worked up over the treatment of their friends - it ain't cyberspace anymore.

With that said, let's try to stop dissecting LPB's ban in public and try to get my questions answered.

[Aegis]

Nice.

EDIT: As for AO, this comes to mind...

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Is this the first case of a Yeats quote on AO? Somebody put a plaque down to commemorate this date.

[Potatoboy]

LPB Was not permabanned for his sig.

He had a 7 day ban for his sig, which was grossly in violation of the rules, which he was aware of as he had been edited before.

By grossly in violation, I mean that there was a transparent gif, well above the dimensional restrictions place in his sig intentionally, to take up space.

In the middle of serving that ban, he registered and activated a new account, and then used that account to PM and Post on the forums.

The ban evasion earned him a perm ban.

When he spoke to me about it, I let him know what had happened, and it was quite obviously he wanted to be unbanned immediately. When I told him that he would at least have to serve the inital temp ban, he was upset and wanted even more information. In fact, he was demanding information that wasn't even there, and wanted to discuss his ban further, after I had told him exactly what had happened, and that at least for the moment the decision was final.

As far as contacting the mods:
If you've been banned, it's probably for quite a legitimate reason, such as the one stated above. Most people are aware that they've broken the rules, and are simply trying to talk their way out of a situation. Not only is it a waste of the mod's time when someone does this, I know personally that it can be quite frustrating.

Most of the mods have an AIM, or email listed in the "Meet the Mods" section, or can be found in the IRC chat room. If the mod that is responsible for your banning isn't available by any of these methods, generally one of the other mods will gladly pass on a note for you stating that you want to talk about your ban.

[teufelhunden]

If you've been banned, it's probably for quite a legitimate reason


Just make sure you emphasize the probably. We've all seen the BS handed down as bans recently.. and I don't even need to name names.

[Aegis]

OK, One more time. THIS IS NOT ABOUT REHASHING LPB'S BAN.

This is an attempt to have some dialogue about how the rules are promulgated and enforced.

[Potatoboy]

I understand, I was simply using him as an example of how things can appear to be one thing, when in reality they're not.

This is one of the reasons why we now have a public ban list. Now everyone can see what the process of banning was, and for what reason.

[CaliMagFan]

Nice.

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Nice Ryan, I'm a WB Yeats fan. And the Second Comming is second-to-none...

Public is the place to discuss issues like this... Saves you from having to type it to a thousand individuals, right? I hear moderators gripe about this being a bad topic for the open forum at the same time they complain about having an unending supply of PMs come thier ways. The only thing that I will visit this forum for is the Meet and Greet so I know when the Cali games are to be played. I figure it's one less poster for our omnipotent mods to babysit. I got a lot of grief about my last sig from RobAGD, so I think I'm cool off this place for a while. Thanks for wiping our collective cracks RobAGD.

[Aegis]

I understand, I was simply using him as an example of how things can appear to be one thing, when in reality they're not.

This is one of the reasons why we now have a public ban list. Now everyone can see what the process of banning was, and for what reason.

Ah! An example. Ok. I guess that is different. Let's take a look:

>He had a 7 day ban for his sig, which was grossly in violation of the rules, which he was ?
>aware of as he had been edited before.

Which rule?

>By grossly in violation, I mean that there was a transparent gif, well above the dimensional
>restrictions place in his sig intentionally, to take up space.

Absolutely right. Dumb move. It was actually 533x60. Funny thing was it was all of 3.66K, being transparent and all. The rule is:

• Sig images may NOT be larger than 350 x 175 pixels. ANY image found taller than 175px or longer than 350px will be removed. Images must be under 20k. These are guidelines and it is recommend that your sig images be smaller than the maximum allowed numbers. Under 15K is prefered, and the smaller the image the better.

>As far as contacting the mods:
>If you've been banned, it's probably for quite a legitimate reason, such as the one stated
>above. Most people are aware that they've broken the rules, and are simply trying to talk
>their way out of a situation. Not only is it a waste of the mod's time when someone does
>this, I know personally that it can be quite frustrating.

I'm not quite clear on this last part. Can you elaborate? Should someone contact a mod or not?

[Aegis]

Nice Ryan, I'm a WB Yeats fan. And the Second Comming is second-to-none...

Public is the place to discuss issues like this... Saves you from having to type it to a thousand individuals, right?

Guys - please don't make this a bash-the-mods thread.

[Steelrat]

Hey Aegis, thanks for letting them kick the crap outta me before you posted again ;)

[Aegis]

Hey Aegis, thanks for letting them kick the crap outta me before you posted again ;)

Just remember:

Choose your companions from the best; Who draws a bucket with the rest soon topples down the hill.

Or this:

Think like a wise man but communicate in the language of the people.

Take that, you poetry snob you.

[Steelrat]

Just remember:

Choose your companions from the best; Who draws a bucket with the rest soon topples down the hill.

Or this:

Think like a wise man but communicate in the language of the people.

Take that, you poetry snob you.

You were a student of Socrates weren't you? Tell me, is it true that his last words were "I just drank WHAT!?!?!?"

[Aegis]

You were a student of Socrates weren't you? Tell me, is it true that his last words were "I just drank WHAT!?!?!?"

Actually google has to get more credit than my education or Socrates. However, I think his actual last words were in Greek.

[Steelrat]

Actually google has to get more credit than my education or Socrates. However, I think his actual last words were in Greek.

I wouldn't know, I wasn't there. I'll have to take your word for it ;)

[Muzikman]

If you find a thread/post that you think action needs to be taken on, use the "notify mod" button. They will look at it and make a decision.

If you are banned and have no clue why; First, look at the banned thread. Second, contact a mod via Email, AIM, or in chat. What Tater is saying is that a lot of people know why they were banned, but still contact a mod to cry about it.

If you follow the rules all will be good. If for some reason a mod should contact you about something you posted or your sig, be polite, don't be a "richard". If you do decide to break the rules, be a man and take your punishment without crying.

I have over 4000 posts, have been here since Dec of 2000. I have never been banned, I have only been notified once about a sig infraction. If you look through my posts, I don't think there is even one that would be questionable. So, be like me, and all will be goo.

[teufelhunden]

There's no such thing as questionable. There's clearly breaking the rules and there aren't.

Hey, I need some more soma..

[luke]

When this thread was posted, I thought it was just a “what if”, not an actuality. Now knowing that it was a real signature and one that belongs to an Admin, it becomes crystal clear why Load said what he did about it. If he deleted the content which is against AO rules, he would have stepped right on another Admin’s toes and shown that the Admin WAS in violation of the rules.

Sam, what did you mean by this? ( The red hi-lited text)
I actually went and read the rules (for the first time ;) ) and couldn't place it any where. (?)

[shartley]

Sam, what did you mean by this? ( The red hi-lited text)
I actually went and read the rules (for the first time ;) ) and couldn't place it any where. (?)
Please go read my last post. It is a good idea when reading a thread to make sure you read all the posts in it. Many times your question may be answered. ;)

[Mighty Mike]

And why can people not get over this LPB crap?

It's easy for you and RobAGD to say "get over it," but for some of us, it's not that easy.

LittlePaintballBoy is a core member of our AO NorCal crew and a dear friend to all of us. So excuse me if I can't "get over it." LPB is an awesome kid, a great paintballer for his age, and my buddy, and it makes me furious I will no longer see him post on AO. Do i think LPB made a mistake and deserve some type of punishment....Yes, but not a lifetime ban. That is just too harsh of a punishment for a 12 year old, but what can we do about it?? RobAGD is God around here and his word is final.

One final note, imho, having the statement "suck his penis" in your sig is 100 times more offensive than what LPB did.

[Lohman446]

It's easy for you and RobAGD to say "get over it," but for some of us, it's not that easy.

LittlePaintballBoy is a core member of our AO NorCal crew and a dear friend to all of us. So excuse me if I can't "get over it." LPB is an awesome kid, a great paintballer for his age, and my buddy, and it makes me furious I will no longer see him post on AO. Do i think LPB made a mistake and deserve some type of punishment....Yes, but not a lifetime ban. That is just too harsh of a punishment for a 12 year old, but what can we do about it?? RobAGD is God around here and his word is final.

One final note, imho, having the statement "suck his penis" in your sig is 100 times more offensive than what LPB did.


The rules allow offensiveness, as long as its not a flame and does not activate the curse filter (I know.. I don't like it, but thats what they read).

LPB broke the rules as written, and I still think that had this been allowed to "blow over" rather than made a top of the forums argument with the mods, you would likely have him back. Now all that him back would tell me is to screw the rules because if I have enough people ask for my return and throw a fit in public (I will note your post is quite civil and restrained, so don't take this as an attack on you), even if what I did was in violation, then back I come.

[teufelhunden]

If that's the case, my new sig will contain something like this:

I hate Blacks, Mexicans, Asians, Jews, Italians, Brits, Nips, Irishmen [those drunken bastards], Arabs [all terrorists, of course..], Buddhists, Pakistanis, Catholics, Russians, and anybody else who isn't me. Oh, and the tsunami victims deserved it.


Hurrah towards this entire stupid situation.

[Steelrat]

It's easy for you and RobAGD to say "get over it," but for some of us, it's not that easy.

LittlePaintballBoy is a core member of our AO NorCal crew and a dear friend to all of us. So excuse me if I can't "get over it." LPB is an awesome kid, a great paintballer for his age, and my buddy, and it makes me furious I will no longer see him post on AO. Do i think LPB made a mistake and deserve some type of punishment....Yes, but not a lifetime ban. That is just too harsh of a punishment for a 12 year old, but what can we do about it?? RobAGD is God around here and his word is final.

One final note, imho, having the statement "suck his penis" in your sig is 100 times more offensive than what LPB did.


:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

[stop whining buy a mag]

teufelhunden If that's the case, my new sig will contain something like this:

I hate Blacks, Mexicans, Asians, Jews, Italians, Brits, Nips, Irishmen [those drunken bastards], Arabs [all terrorists, of course..], Buddhists, Pakistanis, Catholics, Russians, and anybody else who isn't me. Oh, and the tsunami victims deserved it.


Hurrah towards this entire stupid situation.

Thank you for finally saying that. If someone says something about you and it isn't true then ignore it. They are the incompetent moron who should be laughed at for not knowing who you are.

I guess if we want to keep this a civil place then make simple but broad rules. No flaming, cursing, etc. It's that simple. If someone has a question as to what a curse word is than PM them.

Or my best idea of all. Every single post that every single AO'er makes is sent through the mods first. They have to read every single post and declare if it is appropriate or not. What do ya say Mods? :rofl: :clap: :rofl:

[Aegis]

Still waiting on a response to some fairly simple questions.



>He had a 7 day ban for his sig, which was grossly in violation of the rules, which he was ?
>aware of as he had been edited before.

Which rule?

>As far as contacting the mods:
>If you've been banned, it's probably for quite a legitimate reason, such as the one stated
>above. Most people are aware that they've broken the rules, and are simply trying to talk
>their way out of a situation. Not only is it a waste of the mod's time when someone does
>this, I know personally that it can be quite frustrating.

I'm not quite clear on this last part. Can you elaborate? Should someone contact a mod or not?

As Rob mentioned, I do post things to make a point on occasion. This is one of them. Look, folks, I am all for moderated forums and I understand that it is a rocky road sometimes. I am also fully in favor of having rules, and agree that you should just abide by them or go away.

However, I also believe that you need to be able to have a dialogue about the problems in order for the whole system to continue effectively. That's all this is about.

[Blennidae]

LPB Was not permabanned for his sig.

He had a 7 day ban for his sig, which was grossly in violation of the rules, which he was aware of as he had been edited before.

In the middle of serving that ban, he registered and activated a new account, and then used that account to PM and Post on the forums.

The ban evasion earned him a perm ban.



I hate to drag this back up, but when I read this in the banned forum it caught my attention.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1802416&postcount=24

With the exception of the length of the original ban, what is the difference? :confused:

[Automaggot68]

I hate to drag this back up, but when I read this in the banned forum it caught my attention.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1802416&postcount=24

With the exception of the length of the original ban, what is the difference? :confused:
I saw that As well. Why wasn't Echo given a Perm ban, as LPB was?

[AO Moderation Team]

Because he wasn't and also his original ban was a minor in the scale of offences (hence the 3 day ban not a 7 day). Echo actually broke his ban by a matter of hours not days, it entirely is possible that since he used his brothers account (he said this in the post he made) he may not have even realised his original ban was not served. Do not look for parallels between LPB and Echo as they are not there.

[-=Squid=-]

Because he wasn't and also his original ban was a minor in the scale of offences (hence the 3 day ban not a 7 day). Echo actually broke his ban by a matter of hours not days, it entirely is possible that since he used his brothers account (he said this in the post he made) he may not have even realised his original ban was not served. Do not look for parallels between LPB and Echo as they are not there.
AO Moderation Team: Posting when they don't want to face the public themselves.

Nice veil.

(EDIT: I was put up to this post.)

[AO Moderation Team]

AO Moderation Team: Posting when they don't want to face the public themselves.

Nice veil.

(EDIT: I was put up to this post.)

Yeah, we know you were put up to it. You voice the opinion of someone else who will not post for himself, and instead uses you and others as a veil to do so. It's a way for him to get his 2 cents in, and avoid getting banned himself.

Don't you feel used?

[Aegis]

Yeah, we know you were put up to it. You voice the opinion of someone else who will not post for himself, and instead uses you and others as a veil to do so. It's a way for him to get his 2 cents in, and avoid getting banned himself.

Don't you feel used?

Interesting. Innuendo from an anonymous source. Talk about veils.

Are you, whoever you are, referring to anyone in particular?

[Z-man]

I think they think they know it's you or your offspring fugitive that made Squid do that.

[Aegis]

I think they think they know it's you or your offspring fugitive that made Squid do that.

It would be immature of me to jump to conclusions.

[-=Squid=-]

Yeah, we know you were put up to it. You voice the opinion of someone else who will not post for himself, and instead uses you and others as a veil to do so. It's a way for him to get his 2 cents in, and avoid getting banned himself.

Don't you feel used?
Nah, I saw the irony in it a mile away.

Though I do wonder who is up to the "AO Mod Team" posts... After all, it was you (or a group of people?) who once banned me... I am afraid that I have to kick your *** through the internet.

[Aegis]

Nah, I saw the irony in it a mile away.

Though I do wonder who is up to the "AO Mod Team" posts... After all, it was you (or a group of people?) who once banned me... I am afraid that I have to kick your *** through the internet.

Squid, I don't know you but I am going to ask a favor. As long as this thread is alive I would like to keep it focused on the questions. Please don't give anyone a reason to lock it.

Thanks.

[AO Moderation Team]

Nah, I saw the irony in it a mile away.

Though I do wonder who is up to the "AO Mod Team" posts... After all, it was you (or a group of people?) who once banned me... I am afraid that I have to kick your *** through the internet.

5 day ban for threatening the AO Moderation Team.

[Z-man]

dude... it's Squid.


I usually DO post informative things... assuming it's a thread proposing a reasonable question/topic. Disagree? You don't read many of my posts.

I guess this just is not a reasonable topic....

Edit: That is either really funny or really cruel in this thread :)

Edit Edit: guess you weren't kidding.

[Automaggot68]

5 day ban for threatening the AO Moderation Team.

I guess no one can see the humour in this? He was Kidding, people Wow, That was totally a threat. We all know how long Squid has been apart of AO, and we all know how he sticks out like a sore thumb. and Most of all, We're all aware of his sense of humour, as well.
Does he have to use a smile with everything he, or anyone posts?
It's amazing how lenient the Mods are with some, and Strict with others.
I hope you get the answer you're looking for, Aegis.
AO Moderation Team, this was in no way an insult, or directed as such, in anyway. So please, dont take it that way.

[AO Moderation Team]

I guess no one can see the humour in this? He was Kidding, people Wow, That was totally a threat. We all know how long Squid has been apart of AO, and we all know how he sticks out like a sore thumb. and Most of all, We're all aware of his sense of humour, as well.
Does he have to use a smile with everything he, or anyone posts?
It's amazing how lenient the Mods are with some, and Strict with others.
I hope you get the answer you're looking for, Aegis.
AO Moderation Team, this was in no way an insult, or directed as such, in anyway. So please, dont take it that way.

Warning: Posting in his behalf using PMs to coordinate is a form of ban circumvention.

[cabldawg]

Ok Now it’s my turn. I found the secondary ban on echo. I thought instead of posting on the board and causing problems, I would send an E-mail to “the AO Mod Team” and see about getting answers to my questions.
Yet, it seems that the AO Mod Team decided to post on the boards without returning my E-mail.
Does this bother me hell yes.

Now since I’ve decided to throw the dice, about LPB did he break the rules? Yes. Does he deserve a lifetime ban? I don’t think so and here’s why.
You hand out punishments to correct bad behavior. How will you know, if he has learned anything, if he cannot post again?


damn the torpedos full speed ahead

[Blennidae]

Because he wasn't and also his original ban was a minor in the scale of offences (hence the 3 day ban not a 7 day). Echo actually broke his ban by a matter of hours not days, it entirely is possible that since he used his brothers account (he said this in the post he made) he may not have even realised his original ban was not served. Do not look for parallels between LPB and Echo as they are not there.

I think this falls within the context of the title of this thread. How can you say there are no parallels when they appear to be the same offenses?

Repeated sig rule violation: Why does one get 3 and the other get 7?
Ban Evasion: One gets 3 the other gets life?

You mention that one used a family members account to post and may have not realized it? That opens the door for people to have multiple accounts and use them as loopholes in the rules.

I believe the discrepancy in the interpretation of the rules is the problem people have with them. No one questions a permaban for spamming. They question when two members break the same basic rules, but the punishment is different.

If you think someone is behind this other than me, you would be wrong. I am just looking for the same answers Aegis is.

[Potatoboy]

LPB's ban was a combonation of sig issues, and flaming another member.

His permban was also a result of creating a new account, and using that account to continue to flame that member.

The situations are similar, but are no means identical.

[Miscue]

Why is it, that if two people are convicted in court of the same classification of crime - their penalties could be different? Is this good or bad?

[RobAGD]

You know whats almost funny, I was about to bring up to the other mods about letting LPB back, welp guess whats not going to happen now ?

You all need to let it go, if you dont like it go away. I am sick of the crying about this or that.

If LPB is brought up again to compare terms of punishments or to try and draw some tagent from his issue to someone elses it going to get that person a 30 day ban.

Any questions about that ?

-R

[cabldawg]

and yet you still have not answered why my email was not answered

[cabldawg]

yeah I got a question see above post

[Miscue]

You know whats almost funny, I was about to bring up to the other mods about letting LPB back, welp guess whats not going to happen now ?

You all need to let it go, if you dont like it go away. I am sick of the crying about this or that.

If LPB is brought up again to compare terms of punishments or to try and draw some tagent from his issue to someone elses it going to get that person a 30 day ban.

Any questions about that ?

-R

Welcome back Rob. 3 Cheers for the old regime. :)

[Aegis]

Why is it, that if two people are convicted in court of the same classification of crime - their penalties could be different? Is this good or bad?

Well, we do have the three strike law. The outcome can be different for the same event, based on the history of the perpetrator.

In general, I think you would find that the crimes were fairly well defined and that the penalties, while different, followed established guidelines.

Do you feel that is the case here?


Edit - Gosh, didn't see that warning while preparing this. Does answering a Mod's question count?

[Aegis]

You know whats almost funny, I was about to bring up to the other mods about letting LPB back, welp guess whats not going to happen now ?

You all need to let it go, if you dont like it go away. I am sick of the crying about this or that.

If LPB is brought up again to compare terms of punishments or to try and draw some tagent from his issue to someone elses it going to get that person a 30 day ban.

Any questions about that ?

-R

Not comparing terms of punishment. Not drawing a tangent. Addressing your statement, and you, directly.

You now find yourself punishing someone for the actions of others. Unsolicited actions, by the way.

[spacedtedybear]

Since I'm probably one of the few in the AO-Norcal group who have yet to voice his opinion/ pose questions about this matter.......

From what I gather from the banned list, the punishments have been fairly consistent with the given offenses. Now from what I have been able to gather, LPB was initially given a three day ban for sig text abuse and flaming. Then he was given a perm ban for circumvention. ( Is there anything I'm missing?). Was he warned before the 1st ban and the perm ban? Somebody PM me the details. I'd rather read about that situation privately.

A perm. ban is pretty harsh punishment. Although the guilty party has to be punished for breaking the rules. I am however concerned as to how a perm ban occures. If a single member of the mod team has the power to click a perm ban at his/her discretion, than it may not be entirely fair to those who post on these forums. No matter how objective any of us, and those in the moderation team may be, there will always be certain predisposition regarding certain attitudes and behaviors of other members. If it is discussed among the other members of the mod team before a perm. ban is given, than that is an entirely different matter. Yes punishments must be given fairly and equally, however there is room for leniency in our laws and the rules of this board.

Is it fair for a person who has done nothing but good and contributes to society, only to be outcast for a brief lapse of judgement? It may be fair, but to be fair does not always equate to it being right.

Ok.... that took me a while to write.

[Z-man]

Back from dinner.

Yes I too would like to hear more on this. Something is not adding up if you don't respond to the PM's and you don't answer the questions here in public. Is that at what you want really? Get out or shut up?

....I bet I can still organize the NorCal SoCal Day off AO.

[Potatoboy]

What questions?

It's been explained over and over again in this thread exactly what happened.

Just look at my posts. People keep asking questions about this rule and that, and they're usually promptly answered. Just because you aren't getting the answers you're looking for doesn't mean the question was ignored.

To sum up the last round of questions to the best of my knowledge yet again:

No, the MonsterMag and LPB bans are not the same.

Yes, LPB was warned numerous times about both his sig and the flaming before his initial ban.

No, He wasn't warned before the perm ban, as it was a result of ban evasion, which is clearly in violation of the rules, (assuming you have two brain cells to rub together to realize that if it was ok to evade a ban, then we wouldn't ban you in the first place)

LPB's ban evasion also included posting in another flame thread. If it had not been for this, I would have NOT permbanned him. This was his fault, He did it, and he knew it was wrong seeing how and tried to erase the post. Before anyone brings up the fact that since he removed the post he should be absolved for the offense, let me draw a gross parallel. If one commits a murder, and one hides the body because one knows that the act they just commited is wrong, should that make them exempt from punishment?

[cabldawg]

ok since you decided to bring up brain cells and yes I damn sure got more than 2. Lets see what your count is read my last 4 posts in this thread

[Blennidae]

LPB's ban was a combonation of sig issues, and flaming another member.

His permban was also a result of creating a new account, and using that account to continue to flame that member.

The situations are similar, but are no means identical.

Having had this info (which is not posted in the banned forum) would have stopped me from bringing this back up.


You know whats almost funny, I was about to bring up to the other mods about letting LPB back, welp guess whats not going to happen now ?

You all need to let it go, if you dont like it go away. I am sick of the crying about this or that.

If LPB is brought up again to compare terms of punishments or to try and draw some tagent from his issue to someone elses it going to get that person a 30 day ban.

Any questions about that ?

-R


So I guess I get to be the bad guy for blowing LPBs chance for redemption, oops.

As for the 30 day ban for bringing it up, is that really warrented? Will this new rule be added to the rest of the rules so some unsuspecting poster won't get burned if they haven't read this particular thread? No offense, but it sounds like sour grapes to me.

You can't please everyone, and while I don't think the perma ban is warrented, I can live with the decision. But you as mods should be prepared to answer the occasional question and respond in a way to hopefully satisfy the person who asked it.

Not everybody may agree with Potatoboy's answer, but it did satisfy my original question.

[Automaggot68]

Warning: Posting in his behalf using PMs to coordinate is a form of ban circumvention.

Hey guess what? If he's banned, how can he PM me?
I'm posting on his behalf because Nick is a Stand up guy, he's always been a good trader to me, and a great friend.
Thats pathetic that you're resorting to that.

[Potatoboy]

ok since you decided to bring up brain cells and yes I damn sure got more than 2. Lets see what your count is read my last 4 posts in this thread


Speaking of counting..... that was your 4th post in this thread, I assume you mean to ask me to read your last three.

I can only guess as to why your email was not read, as I am not currently a Moderator on the AO forums. I would suspect it is because it was likely something that had already been, or was about to be discussed in this thread.

[Potatoboy]

Having had this info (which is not posted in the banned forum) would have stopped me from bringing this back up.

Not everybody may agree with Potatoboy's answer, but it did satisfy my original question.

At the time, there was no ban forum. This is one of the reasons why it was created, at the suggest of myself and Miscue.

[Aegis]

What questions?




From one post:

- how can you be banned without violating the rules?

- If you are, how do you communicate with the mods to discuss it?

Another post:

>He had a 7 day ban for his sig, which was grossly in violation of the rules, which he was ?
>aware of as he had been edited before.

Which rule?

>As far as contacting the mods:
>If you've been banned, it's probably for quite a legitimate reason, such as the one stated
>above. Most people are aware that they've broken the rules, and are simply trying to talk
>their way out of a situation. Not only is it a waste of the mod's time when someone does
>this, I know personally that it can be quite frustrating.

I'm not quite clear on this last part. Can you elaborate? Should someone contact a mod or not?

Another post:

Well, we do have the three strike law. The outcome can be different for the same event, based on the history of the perpetrator.

In general, I think you would find that the crimes were fairly well defined and that the penalties, while different, followed established guidelines.

Do you feel that is the case here?


There's a few.

[cabldawg]

that e mail was sent around 6pm yesterday

[RobAGD]

Having had this info (which is not posted in the banned forum) would have stopped me from bringing this back up.

Guess what, Its none of your bussiness to be honest about it, so dont worry about it.





So I guess I get to be the bad guy for blowing LPBs chance for redemption, oops.


Yep, Hope you feel all warm and fuzzy.



As for the 30 day ban for bringing it up, is that really warrented? Will this new rule be added to the rest of the rules so some unsuspecting poster won't get burned if they haven't read this particular thread? No offense, but it sounds like sour grapes to me.

Well lets see how well people start paying attention when I start handing out 30 day bans because they cant follow a simple instrustion as to leave something lay. Once again, it not thier business so dont get into it. And its not sour grapes it being fed up with users on this forum that think for some damn reason they have some god given right to have a say in punishments that get handed down on users that break the rules.

-R

[-=Squid=-]

... What was Automaggot banned for? Pointing out a fallacy conceived by the "Mod Team?" I don't get it. Please don't tell me that another "Random-ban" epidemic is about to break out...

[RobAGD]

Its not random.

And Dont worry about it. Again its not your business.

-R

[cabldawg]

yes I know I'm gonna get a 30 day ban. If I think something is wrong I question it. Thats my right and sometimes it may even be a moral obligation. You made the comment that you were gonna talk with the other mods about LPB but since all this came out. notta! that sounds a bit childish to me. As I read your last post it just infuriated me that you could take that attitude with these peaple. maybe you should have counted to 10 prior to posting. I did but I still feel that I needed to say something

I have a couple other post in this thread if you would take the time read them and then confirm that the mod team was sent an E-mail yesterday

Then do what you feel you must
hope ya have a better tomorrow cus it sure looks like ya didn't have a good one today

[-=Squid=-]

Its not random.

And Dont worry about it. Again its not your business.

-R
Well, it shared a direct association with my ban...

[Z-man]

Well lets see how well people start paying attention when I start handing out 30 day bans because they cant follow a simple instrustion as to leave something lay. Once again, it not thier business so dont get into it. And its not sour grapes it being fed up with users on this forum that think for some damn reason they have some god given right to have a say in punishments that get handed down on users that break the rules.

Well... I guess ultimatly you have the power to make this forum into what you want. I would like to see LBP back (sooner than never). Did you want to wait for a differnet issue or you want to boot me now? kisses

[Steelrat]

Wow, just wow. AO really has jumped the shark. Time to look for another forum I guess.

[RobAGD]

Well... I guess ultimatly you have the power to make this forum into what you want.

It has very little to do with what I want. It has more to do with people getting off this one subject. Do you under stand ho wmany god damn rules that kid broke ? It has been repeted several times over and over. He had multible ban evasions, Sig Abuse issues and in general was behaving like an asshat.



I would like to see LBP back (sooner than never). Did you want to wait for a differnet issue or you want to boot me now? kisses

Nope Ill do you now, thank you very much.


Well, it shared a direct association with my ban...

Ah but YOUR NOT LPB, its not your issue. and your bans and his were not linked, like offences as I uderstand it.

-Robert

[bornl33t]

at the risk of getting banned here for talking about the LPB situtation, I wanna give my two cents here.

I ignored the whole LPB thing, infact I though it died and the only reason I noticed it was because I'm a fanatic reader of the ban forum!

ALL this could have been avoided with ONE simple E-mail to all the mods. If LPB would have writen ONE e-mail saying I'm sorry NONE of this would have gone down. My Proof. Time and Time again ppl have done WAY worse. There was some guy that was posting porn in the friendlys and all he did was applologize and he was back. I personaly think that it would have deserved a permanent IP ban due to the nature and the "in your face" attitude with which it was done, but lucky for this individual I'm not a mod. We have ALL see this happen and that's my proof. Infact I dare say if he would appologize now his permaban could possible be resolved. The reason I say possibly is because all your arguing at best made his situation worse.

Without integrity no one can pursuade another, what have you done to show integrity?

[bornl33t]

ps,
squid=slipknot? are they the same person? I haven't seen slipknot in a while

[CaliMagFan]

[...] let me draw a gross parallel. If one commits a murder, and one hides the body because one knows that the act they just commited is wrong, should that make them exempt from punishment?

By parallel gross you must have meant "grossly incorrect" because your analogy is too far removed from the idea you're speaking of to be correct. You should have said that his actions were analogous to shooting a person and just as the person was dropping dead, you were able to save them by somehow retracting the bullet back to the gun, thus sparing the would-be victim. I know that sounds nit-picky, but you cant say asinine things without someone checking you on them. To clarify, a crime was "commited" and then "uncommited", not commited then covered up (the stashed body bit).

I've been posting a lot less recently because my distaste for the actions taken by you and the AO mod team drove me away. I feel it totally necessary to call the mods on certain things because they should be more accountable than the rest of us. That includes RobAGD's calling LPB's actions those of an "asshat." Poor form by you both and a big F- grade in my book. You're both examples of moderation "failures".

[CaliMagFan]

To any AO mod... Who is ultimately in control of the content of the forums? I realize there is a webmaster, but does he answer to the administration of AGD? I'm curious from a customer service standpoint as to who's edict you're all practicing.

[SpecialBlend2786]

... What was Automaggot banned for? Pointing out a fallacy conceived by the "Mod Team?" I don't get it. Please don't tell me that another "Random-ban" epidemic is about to break out...

Yeah, thats confusing me too. And saying "dont worry about it" and that "its none of your business" wont really help. Basically seeing a friend "Arrested" and punished, but you're not supposed to worry about it.....because somehow it isn't any of your business. So you just turn a blind eye, and dont worry about what is happening to anybody but yourself :confused:

maybe i confused myself.

refering to "he who must not be named" he recieved the equivalent of a lifetime sentence......

Back to the original topic of the thread, sorry to beat a dead horse, but. " i offered to suck his penis "

However, there are some rules as we strive to keep the Forum "family" orientated, and maintain a "PG-13" level of discussion.

"i offered to suck his penis " isn't at all family orientated. At least not in my book.

As for flaming and personally insulting other members, I've been personally insulted a few times because of my race and religion, and openly attacked. Cphillip took care of the posts in the correct manner i believe, by removing them.

Refering to the rules, I think Webby did a fine job listing them, but common sense should be used as well.

Also, why was Aegis banned? Throughout the thread I constantly saw him try to calm people down and make sure things did not get out of line, however he was banned?

Ok i'm done, sorry for the rant.

[Mighty Mike]

Well lets see how well people start paying attention when I start handing out 30 day bans because they cant follow a simple instrustion as to leave something lay. Once again, it not thier business so dont get into it. And its not sour grapes it being fed up with users on this forum that think for some damn reason they have some god given right to have a say in punishments that get handed down on users that break the rules.

-R

RobAGD - if the users on this forum are bothering you that much, maybe it's time for YOU to step down as an AO Moderator. From the comments and actions you've made, I can honestly say that you've gone completely insane!!

[RobAGD]

MM - Its about 10-15 users that are bothing me and if thing keep going, They will all be gone in a few days. So far I think we are up to 6 30 day bans.

-R

[-=Squid=-]

Ah but YOUR NOT LPB, its not your issue. and your bans and his were not linked, like offences as I uderstand it.

-RobertNeither I or Automaggot brought up LPB, nor made any references to him in this entire thread.

My question was solely aimed at Automaggot's ban, which was for defending me (Not LPB if that's what you were thinking). However, he defended me in a such a manner that he was respectful, calm, and didn't break any rules.

Now... What was he banned for?

[thecavemankevin]

according to this squid, you got banned yesterday for threatening a mod...???


-=Squid=- = 5 days. Threatening the AO Moderation Team.

and according to the ban thread automaggot was banned for not letting the LPB thing die. not saying it accurate or not....thats just what it says

[-=Squid=-]

according to this squid, you got banned yesterday for threatening a mod...???



and according to the ban thread automaggot was banned for not letting the LPB thing die. not saying it accurate or not....thats just what it says
Looks like Rob needs a little reading comprehension.

Automaggot was talking about ME, not LPB. ME. Neither one of us at ANY point were, are, or will be talking about LPB.

[hAppy]

OMG WTH HAPPENED TO ALL MY NORCAL AO FRIENDS?! :mad:

[ProX9]

MM - Its about 10-15 users that are bothing me and if thing keep going, They will all be gone in a few days. So far I think we are up to 6 30 day bans.

-R

"Sig Abuse issues and in general was behaving like an asshat."

"Do you under stand ho wmany god damn rules that kid broke ?"

In essence,
"no, the rules dont apply to me, j000 want to be banzored?"
-RobAGD

I think you need to get high on prozac otherwise youre going to have an aneurysm.

[abarnhar]

I moved on from AO a while ago, but a friend who's fairly active keeps me up to date on how the board is progressing (or regressing, as the case may be). When moderation and intrigue gets this opaque, there's really only one thing to do:

Move to greener pastures!

There are a ton of paintball boards out there. Go find one that suits you. If the mods are banning your friends and not giving a legitimate reason, don't support the board that put them in their place of power in the first place. They aren't worth your time.

I found better boards to frequent and so can anyone else.

[-=Squid=-]

I moved on from AO a while ago, but a friend who's fairly active keeps me up to date on how the board is progressing (or regressing, as the case may be). When moderation and intrigue gets this opaque, there's really only one thing to do:

Move to greener pastures!

There are a ton of paintball boards out there. Go find one that suits you. If the mods are banning your friends and not giving a legitimate reason, don't support the board that put them in their place of power in the first place. They aren't worth your time.

I found better boards to frequent and so can anyone else.
PBN has been my new home for a while now.

[SpecialBlend2786]

OMG WTH HAPPENED TO ALL MY NORCAL AO FRIENDS?! :mad:

and one SOCAL :(

[Blennidae]

RobAGD: Please note that you have banned spacedtedybear for something he is unaware of.

Spacedtedybear's last activity was 9:51pm last night. Your post with the 30day rule in it is time stamped 10:31pm.

You mentioned you would look into it, but you have had time to add to the list, but not clear his ban?

I respectfully submit you have banned him in error.

[SpecialBlend2786]

RobAGD: Please note that you have banned spacedtedybear for something he is unaware of.

Spacedtedybear's last activity was 9:51pm last night. Your post with the 30day rule in it is time stamped 10:31pm.

You mentioned you would look into it, but you have had time to add to the list, but not clear his ban?

I respectfully submit you have banned him in error.

just noticed that as well after you pointed it out.

[SCpoloRicker]

We are at war with Eurasia.

We have always been at war with Eurasia.

How many fingers am I holding up?

This is rediculous. Absolutely rediculous. You know where to read my true opinion, but in deference to the standards of the boards, I will remain within the conduct rules here.

Within the recent time, the AO moderation has far exceeded its bounds in response to this situation. The Nor-Cal group of players is probably one of the strongest around. People from all around, from tons of different backgrounds. People put in time to make these events work. We get together outside of paintball to hang out.

Guys like Cbldawg and Z-man are the best ambassadors of the sport I have had the pleasure to play with.

I would not be surprised if we don't come back.

/wonders if next on chopping block...

[REDRT]

Originally I thought the mods might have been too harsh. I even voted that they relax on the bans, but I was wrong. After contacting them via PMs on issue I was unclear about I have found no real evidence that supports the claim that they are wrong. They are doing their job. I fact I think they are doing a fine job.
After reading this thread with people pushing the envelope, taunting the mods, calling for war and just plain getting out of hand. I'm suprised of the restraint the mod staff had on the offenders. The bans were the offenders own doing to themselves. As for who is left I would think one should drop it and move on. Where ever that may be for ya. I don't care if this post will make me unpopular with you guys that are angree. I just felt like speaking my piece.

[RobAGD]

just noticed that as well after you pointed it out.


Been busy, Ill check when I get home. Please note its currently 1am and I am still at my shop.

-R

[SCpoloRicker]

that e mail was sent around 6pm yesterday 2/17




*cough*

[Eatem Alive]

Matt Damon!!

[SCpoloRicker]

Please note its currently 1am and I am still at my shop.

Call ahead and let Mom know you're late?

[Steelrat]

We are at war with Eurasia.

We have always been at war with Eurasia.

How many fingers am I holding up?

This is rediculous. Absolutely rediculous. You know where to read my true opinion, but in deference to the standards of the boards, I will remain within the conduct rules here.

Within the recent time, the AO moderation has far exceeded its bounds in response to this situation. The Nor-Cal group of players is probably one of the strongest around. People from all around, from tons of different backgrounds. People put in time to make these events work. We get together outside of paintball to hang out.

Guys like Cbldawg and Z-man are the best ambassadors of the sport I have had the pleasure to play with.

I would not be surprised if we don't come back.

/wonders if next on chopping block...

Thoughtcrime!

[hAppy]

Call ahead and let Mom know you're late?
O man...... :rofl:

[SpecialBlend2786]

Been busy, Ill check when I get home. Please note its currently 1am and I am still at my shop.

-R

rgr that.

I think sometimes AOers forget that mods have lives other than AO:)

[Steelrat]

Originally I thought the mods might have been too harsh. I even voted that they relax on the bans, but I was wrong. After contacting them via PMs on issue I was unclear about I have found no real evidence that supports the claim that they are wrong. They are doing their job. I fact I think they are doing a fine job.
After reading this thread with people pushing the envelope, taunting the mods, calling for war and just plain getting out of hand. I'm suprised of the restraint the mod staff had on the offenders. The bans were the offenders own doing to themselves. As for who is left I would think one should drop it and move on. Where ever that may be for ya. I don't care if this post will make me unpopular with you guys that are angree. I just felt like speaking my piece.

Sycophant.

[teufelhunden]

Sycophant.


Careful, you may confuse someone using big words.

[RobAGD]

RobAGD: Please note that you have banned spacedtedybear for something he is unaware of.

Spacedtedybear's last activity was 9:51pm last night. Your post with the 30day rule in it is time stamped 10:31pm.

You mentioned you would look into it, but you have had time to add to the list, but not clear his ban?

I respectfully submit you have banned him in error.

OK I am confused on this one.

His post time is :
Yesterday, 12:27 AM ( this is at 4am EST on 2/20 ) so his post was at
12:27am 2/19/05

My post was at :
02-18-2005, 11:54 PM

How is that after his post ? Unless he spent over 35 minutes making that post mine was up well before his.

-R

[Muzikman]

Ok, can people just please grow up and remember, it's the damn :cuss: internet! God people, no one was arrested, no one was put in jail, no one is going to have to pay a fine. Everyone will get on with their lives. If they come back, then great, I hope they act more mature, if you are thinking about leaving, so be it, there will be more people to take your place.

AO has been going down hill for some time, but sorry folks, it's not the damn mods, it's the damn users....it's YOU, not THEM!

You people look at the mods the same way you look at the police. If a cop pulls you over and writes you a ticket, you get pissed and cry and moan to all your friends, but it was his job. Same thing with a forum mod, you break a law, they punish you...just be glad that all you get is a break from the forums. There are a lot of other things you can be doing. Go out play a little, take your dog for a walk. Life does not, reovolve around AO, or the internet for that matter.

Remember, only YOU can make AO (or any forum) better...it's YOU!!! All YOU!!! Get it yet? (probably not).

[-=Squid=-]

Ya, but if a member didn't break a rule, then what? Namely, Automaggot. I say again. He did not do anything that goes against any rules, or your stupid made up LPB rule. He was talking about me.

[Blennidae]

OK I am confused on this one.

His post time is :
Yesterday, 12:27 AM ( this is at 4am EST on 2/20 ) so his post was at
12:27am 2/19/05

My post was at :
02-18-2005, 11:54 PM

How is that after his post ? Unless he spent over 35 minutes making that post mine was up well before his.

-R

OK, now I am confused.

Page 4 of this thread.
Reply #91 9:27pm on 2/18 by spacedtedybear
Reply #101 10:31pm on 2/18 by RobAGD (with the 30day ban rule)

This is what I was referring to. His post was before your rule post. He has not posted further in this thread. His post was before your rule was in effect, so he would be unaware of it.

edit: I missed reply #85 8:54 2/18 by RobAGD (1st mention of 30day ban).

Oh well, sorry STB, I guess you should have specified exactly how long it took you to write your reply.

[Lohman446]

:nono: If we're banning people for still arguing and bringing up LPB doesn't that mean you should ban yourself Rob? :argh: Of course, then you would have to ban me :confused: alright nevermind :D ... perhaps we should just add LPB to the cuss list so the filter takes care of that ;)



Disclaimer: this post was a joke, it was meant to be funny - it was not meant to be inflamatory towards either side, it was not meant to cause problems. It was meant to bring a little bit of humor into this situation as noted with its liberal use of smilies throughout.
Translation of disclaimer. Please don't ban me :ninja:

[Blennidae]

Ok, can people just please grow up and remember, it's the damn :cuss: internet! God people, no one was arrested, no one was put in jail, no one is going to have to pay a fine. Everyone will get on with their lives. If they come back, then great, I hope they act more mature, if you are thinking about leaving, so be it, there will be more people to take your place.

AO has been going down hill for some time, but sorry folks, it's not the damn mods, it's the damn users....it's YOU, not THEM!

You people look at the mods the same way you look at the police. If a cop pulls you over and writes you a ticket, you get pissed and cry and moan to all your friends, but it was his job. Same thing with a forum mod, you break a law, they punish you...just be glad that all you get is a break from the forums. There are a lot of other things you can be doing. Go out play a little, take your dog for a walk. Life does not, reovolve around AO, or the internet for that matter.

Remember, only YOU can make AO (or any forum) better...it's YOU!!! All YOU!!! Get it yet? (probably not).

Its true that AO is what its members make it. Mods are in place like police to keep order. I believe we are all in agreement there. The topic of this thread brings into question the enforcement aspect.

To further your analogy, the cop pull you over for speeding, you get a ticket. Fair enough. Someone else is pulled over for speeding, he is shot dead. You as a bystander ask, hey why was he shot. You are told to go about your business, but your conscience does not allow it. For this act, you are thrown in jail.

Sure that is an overly dramatic way of looking at an event on an internet forum, but again as you said, we are what we make it.

Who is currently in jail, not the random kid who has a run in with the swear filter. Currently banned are some members who IMHO are great ambassadors for AO and AGD.

If you run off the mature people with valid questions, sure they can be replaced. But if their replacements are immature people who only care about post counts and flaming, who can tolerate the 3 day bans, to come back for more, is that an improvement?

Could this all have been avoided with a “hey I’m sorry” PM, possibly. I guess we may never know. It has put what (to me) look like flaws in a system under the spotlight.

[Muzikman]

Again, I state I have never been banned. You want to ask why? Because I do not push the rules or the mods. If everyone just ignored it, things would go away, but no, everyone has to keep bringing things up. If there is a flaw, then fine, there is a flaw, hell, there are flaws in our constitution, but only the people that want to cause trouble continue to point these flaws out. AO has been around for how many years, many of which problem free. It has only been recently that there have been problems, and it seems like most surround a single 12 year old kids. I mean come on guys...

I am seriously starting to think Tom should just give up on AO and let it close. It's not doing AGD any good having it running, it seems more and more people are saying they are leaving and never coming back, it seems that a lot of people have left and not come back, and it seems more of a headache for all that are trying to keep order.

I agree, Z-man is a good guy, I have never met him but until now I have not seen him start any problems. But he and many other pushed a mod, and let me tell ya, if you talk back to a cop, he will hit you with a fine or arrest you. People need to show some respect, but ya know what, it's not just AO, or the internet where there is no respect, it's life in general. It's amazing how rude people in the world are. I think the Internet just let's those rude people show it even more.

BTW, at no time has a mod shot anyone. Being banned from a forum and being shot are a bit different. Being banned is kinda like being suspended from school, but hell, even that is more of a punishment. YOu are now not learning. What do you lose by not being on AO? Except for a few people that make their living (or extra money) selling stuff on here, you lose nothing.

If you look at the trend AO has used in the past, you will see that people that were perm banned were many times let back in and many times let back in pretty quick. If people would just learn to let it go, calm down, take a break and look at the big picture things would be much better.

Remember, only you can prevent forest fires, or forum fires as the case may be.

[Blennidae]

Like you, I have never been banned. I don’t need to ask why. I don’t push the rules, and up until now I don’t feel I have ever done anything to push a mod. These posts I have been making in this thread are probably as close as I have ever come. The problems AO has been having recently are not the cause of one member. If everyone ignores it, it goes away for a while, but when it happens again because the problems were ignored and not fixed, people start to ask questions.

Its one thing to have the kids who are looking for PbN flame fests to leave, its another for mature productive members to leave. You can always get more flaming kids, mature posters are harder to find.

I don’t necessarily agree with daring a mod to ban you. I don’t see the value in it. However I can see why they would feel so strongly. The mods should shown some respect. On that same note, those mods should be able to earn that respect, or at least maintain the respect of the members. Being fair and unbiased goes a long way in area. I don’t have to like a decision, but if it was made based on a fair and clearly established set of rules, I can respect it.

My “shot dead” analogy was never meant to imply a mod had ever shot anyone. Sure, talking back to a cop will get you in trouble, but the cop shouldn’t be able to make up a new law to fit his annoyance level.

I am currently to blame for bringing this back up, that is true. I had accepted and let the issue go based on the information I had at the time. When I saw what appeared to be a similar circumstance with a different outcome, I posted my question. I chose this thread because it seemed like a logical progression, instead of starting a whole new thread.

Maybe if the original question had been answered to everyones, or at least the thread starters satisfaction it would not have come back up.

I may have been able to prevent this fire, but I was not the only one to have seen the smoldering ember.

[xXHavokXx]

NOR*CAL Represent.


Banning Zman is like banning Condolezza Rice, he is AGDs prime diplomat to the barbaric masses.

[FallNAngel]

This post is more or less addressed to RobAGD... so if I use "you", everyone knows who I'm referring to:


My “shot dead” analogy was never meant to imply a mod had ever shot anyone. Sure, talking back to a cop will get you in trouble, but the cop shouldn’t be able to make up a new law to fit his annoyance level.

I agree. Just because a mod is aggrivated because a user is doing something they don't like, doesn't mean they should be banned for it. I haven't gone to the other forums, so I may be off base here, but I haven't seen hoards of "BRING BACK LPB!" threads... so to me, this just seems like something that's annoying you. If you think the LPB is too off topic for this thread, then either lock the thread or split the posts.


Maybe if the original question had been answered to everyones, or at least the thread starters satisfaction it would not have come back up.

Again, I agree. Personally, I think it *is* our business, at least to an extent to know what's going on. Do we need to know exact intricate details? No, asking "what happened?" and wanting to know what's happening on the forum we support I think is perfectly within reason.

I think all of us got way too off-topic on this whole thread. This thread was created to see if it would be a problem to have RobAGD's old signature as a current signature, not a "Free LPB!" thread. If the answer to the question is "Having it as your signature is not an offense, using it as your signature is", then say it. If I'm hardpressed to find it in one of your posts, does that make it ok to have? I mean, if that's the case, perhaps I should go back to my first posts and start editing them, inserting porn and such. I mean, it's ok, right? No, obviously not. Does that mean I can have porn in my signature, as long as I don't use it? I hope not. We're not questioning are you using yoru signature now, we're questioning is it right to have it at all. The answer, as the rules are now, no, it is not ok. Whether you're using it or not *PEOPLE CAN STILL SEE IT* You are, if nothing else, held to the same exact standard we are; more often to a higher standard. Being an administrator and (what at least appears to be) an employee of AGD, your actions reflect on the entire moderation staff and on AGD as a whole. By leaving your signature as is you're setting a double standard and saying the rules don't apply to you, but they do to everyone else.

[RobAGD]

Ok once again I will cover this AGAIN.

My sig does not break ANY rules. It maybe in poor taste, it may not be Black and white good or bad but I put it there for a reason.

Part of the reason we put limit on sig is that no one would turn the damn things off so you got the 800x600 imgae at the end of ever post buy some people.

I manually turn my off on almost all of my post. Again I turn it off for a reason. I am held to the same basic rules as everyone else. Heck I have had to remove mod statue as punishment to a few mods over the years because of things they have done. I have gotten emails from tom to tone down my sig contents.

I do not work for AGD, I help them run thier online forum. I folow the RULES that Tom has layed out for us. We follow the rules as he set them out.

We have many other things to do here and in our own lives that we should not have to explain why ever person that get a ban is banned. Take it that its a simple matter of the fact they screwed up.

Suck it up and serve your time, pissing and moaning about it it's going to change anything. Hell people that know me well enough know that the harder you push me for something the less likey you will be to get it, even if I was inclined to give it back or remove it before hand.

I have to say that on the 10-15 forums I am on I dont see a ONE that has to go into the deatils of user bans like we do on AO, I think it a sign the people here think way too much of them selves and thier value to the boards.

Its a damn forum, not real life, nothing that happen on this little box will truely effect you in the real world get over it, learn some maners and grow up, the world does not revolve around you and your little clic of friends.

btw - this isnt directed to any one user but to a whole lot in general. Sack up guys

-R

[SpecialBlend2786]

This post is more or less addressed to RobAGD... so if I use "you", everyone knows who I'm referring to:



I agree. Just because a mod is aggrivated because a user is doing something they don't like, doesn't mean they should be banned for it. I haven't gone to the other forums, so I may be off base here, but I haven't seen hoards of "BRING BACK LPB!" threads... so to me, this just seems like something that's annoying you. If you think the LPB is too off topic for this thread, then either lock the thread or split the posts.



Again, I agree. Personally, I think it *is* our business, at least to an extent to know what's going on. Do we need to know exact intricate details? No, asking "what happened?" and wanting to know what's happening on the forum we support I think is perfectly within reason.

I think all of us got way too off-topic on this whole thread. This thread was created to see if it would be a problem to have RobAGD's old signature as a current signature, not a "Free LPB!" thread. If the answer to the question is "Having it as your signature is not an offense, using it as your signature is", then say it. If I'm hardpressed to find it in one of your posts, does that make it ok to have? I mean, if that's the case, perhaps I should go back to my first posts and start editing them, inserting porn and such. I mean, it's ok, right? No, obviously not. Does that mean I can have porn in my signature, as long as I don't use it? I hope not. We're not questioning are you using yoru signature now, we're questioning is it right to have it at all. The answer, as the rules are now, no, it is not ok. Whether you're using it or not *PEOPLE CAN STILL SEE IT* You are, if nothing else, held to the same exact standard we are; more often to a higher standard. Being an administrator and (what at least appears to be) an employee of AGD, your actions reflect on the entire moderation staff and on AGD as a whole. By leaving your signature as is you're setting a double standard and saying the rules don't apply to you, but they do to everyone else.

right on the money.

and sorry RobAGD i missed that first post too :cry:

[1stdeadeye]

Call ahead and let Mom know you're late?

:rofl:
Wrong, but :rofl:

[SCpoloRicker]

Ok once again I will cover this AGAIN.

My sig does not break ANY rules. It maybe in poor taste, it may not be Black and white good or bad but I put it there for a reason -bolded by SCpoloRicker



O.K. So what's the million dollar answer?


btw, I agree that the easiest answer would have been for noone to piss and moan; and this would eventually lead to re-instatement for all involved.

Also, a lot of the initial flamewars of a month ago directed at two specific younger members was at least tacitly approved of by some of the moderators.

[Lohman446]

I know... if sigs are goign to be such a problem with pissing and moaning, lets just get rid of them

[shartley]

-bolded by SCpoloRicker



O.K. So what's the million dollar answer?


btw, I agree that the easiest answer would have been for noone to piss and moan; and this would eventually lead to re-instatement for all involved.

Also, a lot of the initial flamewars of a month ago directed at two specific younger members was at least tacitly approved of by some of the moderators.
That type of flame wars being tolerated by Moderators has happened more than once on AO.

I have sat back and bit my tongue on this whole issue but finally feel the need to speak up. Some Moderators are more interested in flexing their internet muscles than to admit that they may be wrong. Having the power to do something does not mean you should do it, or have to do it. And certainly moderators/admin should not insult members and taunt them while “doing their jobs”.

Also, Moderators and Admin of a site are more than “just like other members”. Being in those positions makes you a direct representative of the site or the company the site is designed to be advertisement for. Your actions reflect directly on the site and the owner of the site.

Sorry, but I know that if I owned the site I would have fired certain Moderators/Admin a long time ago. This rogue cowboy, fast and loose, double standards when enforcing rules, bull in a china shop, style of moderating is hogwash. And guess what folks? Did you know that you can be fired from a job because of things you may do OUTSIDE the workplace? Well you can. So the “it didn’t happen here” defense does not hold up in my book. And neither does the fact that they are doing this “job” for free.

And so that folks don’t think I am talking about just one moderator/admin, I am not. The moderator/admin staff on AO in general is far from being the selfless all serving folks that they have tried to portray themselves as lately. But I am sure for those who only see the surface of the water, it may seem that way.

HOWEVER, so that folks don’t think I feel only the moderator(s) are out of line on AO (or at a minimum in this thread), some of the membership needs to grow up. Anyone who has been on AO for any length of time knows that permanent bans are not always permanent. Heck, news flash! RobAGD Permanent Banned ME and stated that I would be allowed back on AO when hell froze over. Does that tell you something? (Note: That ban lasted so short of time that most members didn’t even know it happened.)

And taunting a moderator/admin, no matter how wrong they are, is not the way to affect change. That is unless the change you want is to see yourself shown the door. If you want to have the issue addressed, and feel it has not been, then send TOM an e-mail about it. And take your time to make sure the e-mail is well written and explains your position in a mature and rational manner.

But what I have seen in this thread is far from being justifiable. And sorry, those who got slapped for it deserved it.

Now, I keep hearing how “good people” are leaving AO and have been banned. Well, some “bad people” have also. Everyone who stepped up were not righteous warriors fighting for the side of good. Some simply saw a chance to cause a problem or keep one going. There are some people who thrive on conflict and others who egg them on (both here on AO and on other forums). And even the moderator staff is part to blame in this.

And the rules (as well as the spirit of the rules) are not difficult to follow… for anyone, including moderators/admin. So DO IT. And I would hope that the moderators and admin would set higher standards for themselves, just out of personal pride and knowing they represent AO and AGD. But it is clear that so far, this is not the case for some.

I think everyone needs to do some serious self reflecting and come to some HONEST appraisals of their behavior. I know I have.

[FallNAngel]

My sig does not break ANY rules. It maybe in poor taste, it may not be Black and white good or bad but I put it there for a reason.

I assume that reason is because you like the text? If not, what is the reason?


Part of the reason we put limit on sig is that no one would turn the damn things off so you got the 800x600 imgae at the end of ever post buy some people.

That's peachy... but I wasn't talking about images or length (though yours does seem lengthy, you're not posting it either). I'm referring to the last line in your signature. Although I'm sure it's funny in the context that it had and may have other memories attached, it doesn't mean it's any more appropriate. Obviously someone found your signature, so it can be found. Obviously there are people who also find it offensive and not a PG-13 / Family oriented comment... or does just what you think matter?


I manually turn my off on almost all of my post. Again I turn it off for a reason. I am held to the same basic rules as everyone else.

That's peachy, does that mean I can put porn in my signature if I turn it off as well?


I do not work for AGD, I help them run thier online forum. I folow the RULES that Tom has layed out for us. We follow the rules as he set them out.

...and as you make them up as you go along...


We have many other things to do here and in our own lives that we should not have to explain why ever person that get a ban is banned. Take it that its a simple matter of the fact they screwed up.

Yes, but how do we know how not to screw up if you don't tell us? I mean, what if someone else made a thread asking about LPB, would you ban them? I mean, it's not in the rules, but you said in this thread you'd ban them. Perhaps an addition to the rules of "Public discussion of banned members is not allowed"


Suck it up and serve your time, pissing and moaning about it it's going to change anything.

Serve what time? I'm not argueing on the merits of whether LPB or anyone else should or should not have been banned, no offense to them, but I don't care about that. Chances are quite good that they knew what they were doing when they got banned. I'm referring to your signature, as it is now.


I have to say that on the 10-15 forums I am on I dont see a ONE that has to go into the deatils of user bans like we do on AO, I think it a sign the people here think way too much of them selves and thier value to the boards.

Or perhaps we're just a closer community that wants to know what's going on instead of being kept in the dark. For instance, when AutoMaggot68 was banned, did you know he wasn't referring to LPB? Perhaps Squid was asking why he was banned because he wanted to clear up confusion and get someone who was wrongfully unbanned allowed back on the forums. Instead, we're told to "mind our own business". That is why we ask questions.

I'm not trying to flame, or be arguementative here Rob. It just seems too much like you're saying "There's nothing wrong with my signature, I'm leaving it because what I say goes", when you have several users saying, "Honestly, I don't think that's family oriented content". It may be PG-13 in a "funny teen movie a-la American Pie" type of joke, but it's not something I'd joke about at the dinner table.


nothing that happen on this little box will truely effect you in the real world

Tell that to the people who have businesses on this forum

[SpecialBlend2786]

nothing that happen on this little box will truely effect you in the real world [...]


wrong.

and sam that was the best post i've seen in awhile.

[SCpoloRicker]

wrong.

and sam that was the best post i've seen in awhile.

crap, me too. :p

[FallNAngel]

and sam that was the best post i've seen in awhile.

I agree, I had missed it while I was posting my response.

[-=Squid=-]

Ok, this question keeps getting overlooked by Rob.

Why was Automaggot banned?

Don't try to tell me to mind my business, or that he was banned for a reason, because he wasn't. He is a friend of mine, and I know for a fact that the only reason he was banned was because he "wouldn't drop the LPB issue." Wait... That never happened. He was talking about ME. You screwed up. At this point I can only assume you won't admit that you screwed up?

[1stdeadeye]

Nice post Sam!

I will just say that some people like to lord their power over the internet due to a lack of power in the real world. Some people need to get a life....or at least a place of their own. :eek:

[RobAGD]

Intresting that you still just dont get it.

You keep making incorrect assumptions, making digs at things you cant not even begin to understand.

You assume that you are have a right to know everything that goes on here, you dont.

You assume that you diserve some kind of answer when you ask, again incorrect.

FallNAngel - in responce to your query about the p0rn in the sigs. That would be a link to subject material that is not allowed. The stuff in my sig is not against any of the rules. If your sig is 500 lines long and on one ever sees it unless they click on your profile I could care less. As long as you dont have links to material or image that are generally not allowed on the forums again I dont care. The problem comes from the fact that people cant seem to turn thier sigs off, so we imposted a limit on them.

Again I dont go looking for them, if its not in a post I dont worry about it.

Sam - You were unbanned because you whinned to Tom like a little girl, and to be honest if your posts didnt generate the page views they DID, then he would have left the ban. So dont get all atwitter because your ban got over turned.

-Robert

[-=Squid=-]

Things that I can't even begin to understand? What is there to not understand? You screwed up and are two much of an internet badass to admit it.

[spantol]

You assume that you are have a right to know everything that goes on here, you dont.


I didn't hear anyone make that claim. What people are assuming is that when they ask an administrator a direct question related to forum matters, that question will be addressed. While the forum rules do not explicitly guarentee that members' voices will be heard, such an assumption is certainly consistent with the forum's mores, and civilized discourse in general.

Part of what used to distinguish AO from other forums is that its members weren't satisfied with mere assertions and conventional wisdom, and often asked hard, pointed questions to get to the truth of matters. I'm sure it's terribly inconvenient for you when that tradition gets personal, but, as you've said, it's just a message board...



You assume that you diserve some kind of answer when you ask, again incorrect.


We assume that since the administrators and moderators expect a degree of civility out of us, that we can expect the same in turn. Clearly, that's asking too much from some.

[SpecialBlend2786]

Ok, this question keeps getting overlooked by Rob.

Why was Automaggot banned?

Don't try to tell me to mind my business, or that he was banned for a reason, because he wasn't. He is a friend of mine, and I know for a fact that the only reason he was banned was because he "wouldn't drop the LPB issue." Wait... That never happened. He was talking about ME.

agreed. I still cant see why he was banned. maybe i'm not reading between the lines...or maybe he was banned for no reason....

[FallNAngel]

FallNAngel - in responce to your query about the p0rn in the sigs. That would be a link to subject material that is not allowed. The stuff in my sig is not against any of the rules. If your sig is 500 lines long and on one ever sees it unless they click on your profile I could care less. As long as you dont have links to material or image that are generally not allowed on the forums again I dont care. The problem comes from the fact that people cant seem to turn thier sigs off, so we imposted a limit on them.

You're still not understanding what I'm saying. I agree with the length "problem" It's not used in posts, it's not a big deal. I'm referring to the *CONTENT*. You keep saying that your sig isn't in violation of the rules, when several people have said that the last line is not what we'd consider family oriented material. I'm not sure what kind of home you grew up in, but I know my mom would probably smack me upside the head if I tried joking about some guy offering some other guy head. Even if she didn't care, it's just plain inappropriate for this forum.


Sam - You were unbanned because you whinned to Tom like a little girl, and to be honest if your posts didnt generate the page views they DID, then he would have left the ban. So dont get all atwitter because your ban got over turned.

Wow, now the admin is resorting to name calling. Come on man, what are you... 12? Going to Tom to talk about being banned because an admin of the site is on a power trip is "whinning like a little girl" I think it's rather sad that an Admin of an online forum has degraded himself down to name calling. We're trying to approach this in a rather civil manner, please do the same for us.

You also STILL have not said why automaggot has been banned when he was CLEARLY wrongfully banned. You keep saying that we have no right to know the reasons for banning automaggot. You say you banned him because he mentioned LPB... which is obviously not the case. Now you're just being too bullheaded to just plain admit you were wrong, apologize and unban him. What is it? Pride? Just don't want to appear that you're not the all knowing admin that you claim to be? You make mistakes just like the rest of us... I'm sure this isn't the first time, nor will it be the last. If there was another reason for banning him, spit it out so we aren't kept in the dark, otherwise, it's just appearing that you're on a power trip and trying to convince everyone you're not wrong.

[SpecialBlend2786]

Wow, now the admin is resorting to name calling. Come on man, what are you... 12?

its funny cause LPB is 12 :tard:

[RobAGD]

Things that I can't even begin to understand? What is there to not understand? You screwed up and are two much of an internet badass to admit it.

Has nothing to do with being an "internet badass" it has to do with the simple fact your pissed that I am not going into detail about a person I banned. I have in the pass made mistakes and corrected them. I have had user ask me to look into a ban issue and I did so.

That simple, this has been a rather intresting experment. People cant even read a simple rule and obey that rule. They feel some odd need to push around something and then get upset because they got the ban they knew would come.

I have people making some kind of dig about me having to call my mother because I am out late.

I have people saying I am power crazed, I have walked away from this job before. Its not that important to me.

I do this job because I was asked to. I have been fair in how I do things around here. Now people push and I push back with in the limits that are placed one me.

I put things in my sigs to see who reacts, I see who is going to have fits and I know thats going to happen. I also know the Rules and I am not breaking them. Thats the differnace, I KNOW the rules and stay within them. If thats cutting a fine line then so be it.

But making assumption on what I do here and for what reasons will results in you making more of an arse out of yourself than you know.

You know oddly enought only one person has contacted me about thier ban. Intresting No ?

-R

[RobAGD]

Wow, now the admin is resorting to name calling. Come on man, what are you... 12? Going to Tom to talk about being banned because an admin of the site is on a power trip is "whinning like a little girl" I think it's rather sad that an Admin of an online forum has degraded himself down to name calling. We're trying to approach this in a rather civil manner, please do the same for us.

Actually I am discribing how it was explained to me by someone. He got a ban for doing something he shouldnt have.

Tom turned the ban over #1 because Sam went crying to him about it #2 because Tom wanted the pages numbers served. If Sam didnt generate the crap storms he did and generate page hits his ban would have stood. Everytime a mod has tried to punish sam for going out of bounds he has called and cried to Tom about it. So from my end of things and what I get too see I would say he went cring to Tom like a little girl.

So I call it like I see it and I am some how not civil. Take a look about what people are calling me and you want to talk about being civil.

-R

[SCpoloRicker]

Sam - You were unbanned because you whinned to Tom like a little girl, and to be honest if your posts didnt generate the page views they DID, then he would have left the ban. So dont get all atwitter because your ban got over turned.

-Robert

Geez, I thought the Thorde was rude.

Psst. No one (from my area) was surprised by their ban. The point was, notable members are intentionaly pushing matters to make a point. Speaking of not replying, has anyone answered Cable's email from 2/17?

So, the point of your almost-offensive sig was to see who would notice aforementioned almost-offensive sig? That's the reason? What, are you trying to sniff out backseat moderators?

You claim that Shartley's ban wass overturned to create site traffic? Now, I'm the first to disagree with Sam (well maybe not first ;)) but I will in the same breath state that he voices himself well. Calling him a little girl, and implying he posts the kind of inane crap (that the mods seem determined to protect) is a bit spurius, no? Besides, is AO selling adspace all of a sudden? Gotta turn it up a notch, bring back Puc*err Shartley?

/arse not curse filter?

//arsehole

[SCpoloRicker]

So I call it like I see it and I am some how not civil. Take a look about what people are calling me and you want to talk about being civil.

-R

Non-opinion (i.e. fact) aside, most members have been fairly civil. It seems to me that you are the one operating under assumptions. We just want a spade to be called a spade.

[FallNAngel]

Has nothing to do with being an "internet badass" it has to do with the simple fact your pissed that I am not going into detail about a person I banned. I have in the pass made mistakes and corrected them. I have had user ask me to look into a ban issue and I did so.

So why do you not do it now? You say you banned a person for one reason, then when that reason is proven wrong, you fail to unban the person. How is that right?


That simple, this has been a rather intresting experment. People cant even read a simple rule and obey that rule. They feel some odd need to push around something and then get upset because they got the ban they knew would come.

Personally, I'm not defending people who push around rules and more or less ask for a ban... I just don't see the point in it. I am however defending someone who's been shown was not at fault for his ban. If you have another reason for the banning, at least say so. Otherwise you're just proving our point by completely avoiding the question time and again.


I put things in my sigs to see who reacts, I see who is going to have fits and I know thats going to happen. I also know the Rules and I am not breaking them. Thats the differnace, I KNOW the rules and stay within them. If thats cutting a fine line then so be it.

So, you put things in your sig, then when people point out that they don't agree with the material, you get angry and ignore them? What did you expect to happen? People to be peachy with it? Obviously people are going to get upset. Knowing the rules and staying within them is great. No problems with that at all. The problem is, "I offered to suck his penis" is rather subjective as to whether or not it's family oriented material. You may not think there's anything wrong, but obviously other people do. Why would you leave what is considered by at least more than one person to be non-family oriented material when you're representing a company? Is that what you want people to associate with AGD, that that's ok? I realize this may sound like I've gone off the deep end... it's not like you're quoting horrible explicit lyrics... but there are people who find it offensive. Isn't that enough?


You know oddly enought only one person has contacted me about thier ban. Intresting No ?

Very interesting. You ban people, then as far as I can tell leave no way for them to otherwise contact you. You have no e-mail address or instant messenger handle in your profile and you can't use the PM or e-mail link unless you're logged in... but they're banned, so afaik they can't log in (what would be the point of banning them if they could). Perhaps I'm missing something, but how are they supposed to contact you? Do you send them an e-mail when they're banned?

[shartley]

Sam - You were unbanned because you whinned to Tom like a little girl, and to be honest if your posts didnt generate the page views they DID, then he would have left the ban. So dont get all atwitter because your ban got over turned.

-RobertRob, that is typical Robism. You can’t argue the facts so you not only attack someone personally, but then make up things to back up your opinions. So to clear up the lies you just told… the ban was lifted because I broke NO rules. I said something you didn’t like and you banned me. It was that simple.

And I didn’t go “crying” to Tom like a little girl, or like anything else. Did I send him an e-mail? YOU BET! And it was far from crying. I told him what happened and told him to go actually READ the thread.

If I had broken the rules Tom would have simply said to leave the ban, but anyone who saw the incident knows that no rules were broken. THAT is why the ban was lifted.

Actually I am discribing how it was explained to me by someone. He got a ban for doing something he shouldnt have.

Tom turned the ban over #1 because Sam went crying to him about it #2 because Tom wanted the pages numbers served. If Sam didnt generate the crap storms he did and generate page hits his ban would have stood. Everytime a mod has tried to punish sam for going out of bounds he has called and cried to Tom about it. So from my end of things and what I get too see I would say he went cring to Tom like a little girl.

So I call it like I see it and I am some how not civil. Take a look about what people are calling me and you want to talk about being civil.

-R
So, “someone” told you this? But you didn’t see it first hand? You didn’t read the actual e-mail I sent Tom? Interesting… Then shut up.

And some moderators were just pissed off that they could not get me kicked off of AO. Period. They didn’t “like” me, so they got upset when they could not get me kicked off of AO, no more no less. It was not about me breaking rules. My posts have been open for the world to read, and there were enough members who also didn’t like me (again, for things they didn’t understand was going on) that any one of them could have pointed it out if I had actually broken rules. So just because you say so, it does not make it fact.

You would be surprised at all the stuff I hear I did and said online and off that is complete news to me. But folks swear that it is fact. So I guess it is, right? Not likely.

As for the amount of views my posts generated…. BINGO! That is a fact. And you know what? Much of the reason I posted was to cause those page views. Tom and I knew that whenever I posted folks would go to see what was said. And my posts were within the rules. Tom wanted high page views, participation, and membership. My posts helped accomplish all of these things.

But some out there just didn’t get it, and obviously don’t still. There was a reason for my posting, and not just because I was a “jerk” or “always had to debate issues”. It was to cause AO to grow, it was a catalyst. But I ended up on the crappy side of the picture when this was never really pointed out to people. Sure, it was pointed out that the effect was there, but not that I KNEW it and it was the REASON for my posts, not just a consequence of them.

Do folks know that people who hate Howard Sterns listened to his show LONGER than those who LOVED him? Why? To hear what he was going to say next…. the very same reason the others listened. And the membership on AO either loved me or hated me. But I stayed within the rules. And I played my part.

Think about it… if I was the monster and jerk some on AO would like to make me out to be because of things they saw on AO, why is it that NO other forum has a problem with me? But I have heard that I am just “behaving myself lately” on AO and that is the reason for the “change”, or that I am “fooling” folks on other forums. LOL Not likely. Sorry Charlie. I am who I am, here and everywhere else.

I think folks just wanted to think what they wanted to think, and those who knew better simply LET them think that, or assisted them in doing so.

So, you might want to know the full story before making a horses rear out of yourself….. but why change, right? Keep your insults, jabs, and misrepresentations of situations to yourself. Moderator/Admin or not, you have just shown once again part of the problems AO has. And just because you are Admin here does not give you the right to do the things YOU do and the things YOU say to folks here, including me. Next time you want to try a character assassination on me, think again.

I also find it funny that you now claim to follow the rules and use that as a shield for your actions, yet wanted to deny me that very same shield. ;) But then again, it is YOU that is on the crappy side of things now, isn’t it Rob? My how things change depending on what the view is.

You want to know what I think? I think you use AO as your personal punching bag to get out the frustration you feel about your own life. It is the only place you feel you have any power, and so you use it. And that is pretty sad.

But I could be wrong……

Oh... and I am being civil. I am just calling it like I see it. ;)

[1stdeadeye]

I have people making some kind of dig about me having to call my mother because I am out late.

I have people saying I am power crazed, I have walked away from this job before. Its not that important to me.



Feel loved because I make fun of everybody, it is what I do.


I will ask that you try Hooked on Phonics. It might improve your spelling! :p

[-=Squid=-]

Ok, again, he is ignoring the question because he has no answer. RobAGD screwed up and won't admit it. He is resorting to petty name calling, and flat out making stuff up just so he doesn't have to admit that he screwed up.

So, he won't answer my simple, simple question, so I make a new thread. I get threatened with a perm ban (like it matters, AO has gone to hell thanks to retards like RobAGD) and I still don't have an answer.

I bet Rob IS the "AO Moderation Team." Hell, what's funny is that in an "AO Moderation Team" post, whoever it is admits that I am right about this whole thing! Comic brilliance.

So... I ask one more time...

Why was Automaggot banned?

[jackbauer]

"Train Wreck" is the best slogan used to describe this..........thing. i am glad that i lost intrest in the first few pages.


ps~ i hope to see you AO-CA guys at the NORCAL vs SOCAL in april.

[SCpoloRicker]

ps~ i hope to see you AO-CA guys at the NORCAL vs SOCAL in april.

Wouldn't worry about that if I were you :ninja:

[hitech]

...I would say he went cring to Tom like a little girl.

So I call it like I see it and I am some how not civil. Take a look about what people are calling me and you want to talk about being civil.

I would say none of "you" are being civil... :(

[SpecialBlend2786]

So... I ask one more time...

Why was Automaggot banned?

quoted just cause i want an answer too.

preferably within 30 days....

[AGD]

I have turned off Sigs. Time to end this nonsense.

AGD