Which is better all around gun? **'04 HE Freestyle or DM4**

[cockerkiller68]

I can't decide between these two guns!! Which is better all around? For what reasons? Thanks!!

[cockerkiller68]

Or between Naughty Dawg Freestyle or DM4?

[Automaggot68]

How about you go to a local shop, ask to hold, and shoot both?
Then make your OWN decision, not one made by an online forumn.

[cockerkiller68]

b/c many people on here shoot them everyday and put them through many diffent rigors than I could do at the shop. Also, you all may know more about the upgrades, problems etc...than me, or a local shop.

After I get your opinions, I will go test them out and make MY final decision.

Thanks ;)

[Target Practice]

How about you go to a local shop, ask to hold, and shoot both?
Then make your OWN decision, not one made by an online forumn.

Jesus, THANK YOU.

[Conversekidz]

your comparing a 600 dollar gun to a 1200 dollar gun

[Automaggot68]

b/c many people on here shoot them everyday and put them through many diffent rigors than I could do at the shop. Also, you all may know more about the upgrades, problems etc...than me, or a local shop.

After I get your opinions, I will go test them out and make MY final decision.

Thanks ;)


How about this.
I hate the Dm family of markers, because i feel the trigger isn't as nice as the one on my Viking.
I dont like the weight distribution, and i feel they're damned overpriced.

Im not too keen on the freestyles, as again, ugly, I didn't like the feel of the trigger, or how the gun acted. I didn't like either one.

Go for a viking. They shoot just as fast, they can be made to look just as 'pretty', if not more, and they get alot more shots per fill than any other marker I've ever used.

Wait! I forgot the Smiley!
:)

[cockerkiller68]

How about this.
I hate the Dm family of markers, because i feel the trigger isn't as nice as the one on my Viking.
I dont like the weight distribution, and i feel they're damned overpriced.

Im not too keen on the freestyles, as again, ugly, I didn't like the feel of the trigger, or how the gun acted. I didn't like either one.

Go for a viking. They shoot just as fast, they can be made to look just as 'pretty', if not more, and they get alot more shots per fill than any other marker I've ever used.

Wait! I forgot the Smiley!

This is exactly what I was looking for...people stating their opinons!!! Thank you. :)



your comparing a 600 dollar gun to a 1200 dollar gun


The ND retails for $900 the DM4 I've seen for $900 also...new




I have heard great things about the Vikings, they look to me anyways, too big and not very attractive to the eyes. Just my opinion though.

You all understand I'm sure that this is a big investment for me...I don't have any experience in electros and I'm just trying to get people to give me food for thought. It will help me in deciding what to blow all my $$ on!!

Also, I heard some ppl saying I should buy a '02 or '03 model electro and save the rest...??

[FallNAngel]

your comparing a 600 dollar gun to a 1200 dollar gun

The FS isn't $600 and the DM4 isn't $1200

Personally, I've shot the DM4 once (not in game) and it wasn't a huge deal to me. It wasn't bad, but nothing that really made it stand out a huge amount. I currently own an 04 Freestyle (non-HE).

Honestly, my biggest complain about the Freestyle is the location of the on/off button(s). If you're wearing gloves, it's rather hard to turn them off (needed to turn the eyes off). In a pinch, I'm sure you can get them, but I'd rather have them a bit more in the open, such as a Matrix's on/off button. Past that, I love my Freestyle. It's light, balanced, fast (stock board) and quiet. The action is probably the smoothest I've shot. The efficiency isn't so hot, but I play front and I could get the HE kit if it really bothered me. I've heard of other people having problems with eye covers and the screws either being too short, or too long, it's a known problem that they know about and I think they've fixed, but I can't say for sure. Tuning the gun to fire is a little tricky, as it requires you to balance the LPR and HPR for speed, efficiency and ROF... something the DM4 doesn't do.

DM4's membrane pads can break (and often do), but have a built in snatch grip and a slightly different feel to them.

That's about all I can say.. I'm not going to tell you what to buy though, that's your decision. I don't think you'll go wrong with either one.

[cockerkiller68]

Very helpful, thanks

[Skoad]

on note of the membrane pads for dm4s - I haven't had one fail on me yet, but just in case I emailed Dye and asked them for a few spare ones, they gladly sent me out some free of charge. The newer ones are also supposed to a little better as they are better 'water proofed'.

I've never shot or even seen a freestyle in person so I can't really say much about them, except I'm not a big fan of their looks.

:D
http://web.umr.edu/~sjjgfd/dm4.jpg

[yakitori]

I say viking too. I would take a vike over either one of those guns. I dont like the balance of the DM4, its heavy, tall, and not that special. It was just a fad that everyone had to run out and buy one. I see more DM4s than any other marker where I practice.


Vikings are attractive, unless you are a flashy person, and want a flashy gun. Then the viking may not appeal to you.

Between the two youve listed though. Id go w/ the DM4 over the FS. Thats my opinion.

[magmonkey]

Viking not flashy???
insert shamless plug pictures here
http://www.flagpull.com/destructive2k4/dcrasta%20002.jpg

http://www.flagpull.com/destructive2k4/dcrasta%20005.jpg

http://www.flagpull.com/destructive2k4/red1.bmp


between the two I would choose the freestyle with better regs

[pballratt]

its all about personal preference and what your looking for in a gun. i personaly shoot a dm5 and have owned angels cockers and a shocker. the dm5 is by far my favorite. it shoots incredibly well. it is consistant fast and easy to maintain. the only gun i have owned, that i liked nearly as much is my speed. and i still have it as a back up.

i have not shot a freestyle. but i can tell you that the dm line of guns are top notch, and probaly one of the best guns out.

but i encourage you to make your own decision. and tryout both guns before you listen to some one elses opinon.

[TeamNausea]

I don't like rasta fades on a viking... They just look tacky to me. Out of those 2 gun though I'd tkae a dm4 i think I like the ones at my local feild and the FS is just plain ugly to me

[cockerkiller68]

I love reading this stuff guys...thanks, and keep it up...now considering actually holding a Viking!!

[Glickman]

I love reading this stuff guys...thanks, and keep it up...now considering actually holding a Viking!!



proto matrix :D

its lighter then the dm4, its about the same quietness as the dm4 stock, its pretty much the same size as the dm4, and its cheaper then the dm4.

it just kick's the dm4's butt :clap:
http://www.thematrixcenter.com/pc/catalog/protocobalt_2353_detail.jpg


they go for around 900 now.

the only cons is no adjustable feedneck, and the stock barrel isnt great

[abunkerer]

THe Dm guns are better than freestyles, and IMO every other gun out there right now, they are light, they have zero kick, break beam eyes, are very gentle on paint, they can be made efficient with an evolve kit, plus their boards have a chip that can be taken out and replaced with different programs.
THe new dm5 is even better, it's smaller, and they replaced those stupid rubber detents with some spring loaded ones.

[thorn]

well, i have an 05 freestyle with the latest and greatest stuff.
many people have compared shooting a freestyle to shooting a nice matrix- they feel the same
freestyle weighs 1.8lbs
breakbeam eyes
he bolt

so its like a dm4 with better efficiency that is like, half its size and weight for 750..yes, i can find you a brand new 05 freestyle for 750. pm me.

[cockerkiller68]

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=796843

What do you think?

Funny, never noticed these before, but this looks kinda cool!!

[magman007]

have you ever shot a matrix marker? any thing based off the matrix platform? Once you do, i have a feeling you will be sucked in. I was. Fast as all get out, and no kick. i absloutely love that. not terribly inefficient, not viking efficient, but not bad either.

I highly reccomend the matrix line, whether its a DM3,dm4, dm5 or a proto. Hell, even a shocker. you cannot go wrong with the spoolvalve.

lets see what i have owned in the high end gun line....

e-mag
Sfl e-mag (both wonderful, but the kick really started to bother me)
toxic matrix (loved this gun to death, no chops, even without eyes. level 10 soft on the bolt, and quite fast. a little heavy, but it didnt matter to me, it was an amazing gun)
angel speed( hated the trigger, hated the 90 degree frame, and i hated sensi, not an overall fun expierence, although it did shoot well, but kicked, the matrix spoiled me)
dm4(absolutely great, light and fast. eyes, and no chops. Throw a halo on, and you are set. only complaint was the midrise feedneck, now cured with people offering feedneck milling, so that you can get a no rise on your dm4)
04 featherlight viking(fast, nice, efficient, was a great marker, but it wasnt my cup of tea, kicked more than i was happy with, and wasnt very visually pleasing. and this was a hot viking, ask anyone)
and on order is a dm5. i think this tells you something. stock no rise, more efficient than the dm4, stock roller trigger, and built in rail. i like the milling better as well.

i think this tells you something from someone who has owned all these markers, and how i keep comming back. im not a "zealot" for the matrix, i just really really like them, love the opperation, love the smoothe action, and the lack of kick.

I have shot freestyles, timmies, and everything under the sun, except for an ego. they are nice and all, but they dont float my boat. the freestyle is ugly as sin, its the truth. the fs pro is abit better looking, but still not my cup of tea, it shot OK but wasnt any thing spectacular, and i have heard alot of problems with them. talk to blazestorm, he will tell you. Timmies, they kicked as much as my viking, and were made cheeper. nice guns, but the quality control wasnt there to make me want to purchase one. Electro cockers i wont get into, and you already know my feelings on angels.

Dm4 problems you will encounter are usually an oring, which if you study the way the air moves throughout the gun, you can diagnose which oring is your culprit really quick. Membrane pads? never had one fail on me, but if it does, dye will take care of you. Dye has amazing customer service, its on par with agd's. even if your membrane pad does fail on you, it is possible to jump start the marker. not a hard thing to do at all. the pressures are easy to set, and with slickhoney, you can get the opperating pressure down quite low. also Phuct on pbn has been bolt polishing, which apparently makes the bolt silde even smoother through the orings, creating an even lower opperation, meaning easier on the paint.

i would highly reccomend the dm4, they can be found new for 1150, and used for as little as 900 well set up.

oh, another thing. the stock board/chip is fine, but if you want something really amazing, go with a tadao chip, i had the origional and was quite pleased, now, the musashi is something that people are raving about. the eye logic is great, and the marker performed flawlessly with it.

hope that helped, also dont hesitate to grab me on AIM or any of my other mesengers, il answer any questions you may have.

[cockerkiller68]

Thanks, I'll hit you up on aim soon.

This is why I love AO...MOST people really willing to take time and help out a brutha. ;)

[tek4dr]

For the same price range as a Dm4 there is the Ego...not too bad light and really fast. Then again the DM4 is really accurate bad on air but all around good marker.

[cockerkiller68]

How do you remedy the air prob on DM4...'05 bolt or....?

[abunkerer]

http://www.evolvepaintball.com/matrix_categories.php

[cockerkiller68]

Gotcha, thanks

[magman007]

the air problem is over hyped, it really isnt that bad. Freestyles on the otherhand, are even more inefficient, even with the HE bolt.

[cockerkiller68]

Really!! I thought they were suppost to be good on air!! Nice to know..


I just saw these three guns...opinions??? Thanks


B2K

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=167159

Two different Trix

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=166645

I can't wait to buy my new baby!! Just gotta know who she is! ;)

[SOAD8789]

bushys are great guns, i think i would take that shocktech in a heartbeat...

i currently own a bko...so i might be biased..

[cockerkiller68]

Hmmmm

[Conversekidz]

An 04 HE freestyle isn't 600 i was wrong.

They sell for 619 on ebay, brand new.

[Conversekidz]

http://synergypb.com/ecommerce/os/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26_32&products_id=31

and here is a new DM4 for 1099


So i was a little off on prices, but you are stil comparing a gun that sells for 619-625 to a gun that sells for 1100.

[cockerkiller68]

Ok, I was kinda going off the ND Freestyles for about$950 vs a couple DM4s on here and PDNation.com. But I get your drift, the DM4 should be a "better" gun by default.

Sometimes though, cheaper things can be better than more expensive things. Thats all

[Conversekidz]

There really isn't a difference between an stock freestyle and a ND freestyle.


ND freestyle does not have a barrel so that will cost you more, it has the NOX lite flash on it already.

Stock freestyle, same gun as the ND, doesn't have the paw mark, and does not come with NOX lite, but it does come with a barrel.

You can get rocky to reflash your stock board for $25, thus making it the same as a ND freestyle.

question is, is the paw worth the extra money?

[cockerkiller68]

The paw is not worth $300 to me!! :eek: :wow: Didn't know that about the NDs. Thanks.

[punkncat]

The only bad thing I can say about any Matrix is their ability to magically get a cut O ring.....

The DM4's Membrane pad issue kinda stinks.

[magman007]

punkncat, ive never had an oring "magically" get cut. they wear out, happens in all markers man..

the membrane pad issue? timmies have the same problem as well, it just happens you know?

[Conversekidz]

The paw is not worth $300 to me!! :eek: :wow: Didn't know that about the NDs. Thanks.


oh and I think instead of a stubby housing it has a longer housing on the HPR, and the LPR is shorter.... not 100% on that though.

[cockerkiller68]

oh and I think instead of a stubby housing it has a longer housing on the HPR, and the LPR is shorter.... not 100% on that though.


Still not feelin the $300

[punkncat]

punkncat, ive never had an oring "magically" get cut. they wear out, happens in all markers man..

the membrane pad issue? timmies have the same problem as well, it just happens you know?


Unfortunately I see it all the time. Trixs are the most common marker around here, so I see them going down all the time. Not to say I don't see others go down either.

Mine is ALWAYS the top hat o ring.....

[FallNAngel]

the air problem is over hyped, it really isnt that bad. Freestyles on the otherhand, are even more inefficient, even with the HE bolt.

Let's see... if pods hold 140 balls and the Freestyle gets 900 shots on a 68/4500, you'll be able to shoot around 6.5 pods The HE kit is supposed to boost the Freestyle's shot count to around 1200-1500

The efficiency on both the Freestyle and DM4 are both about the same.

[cockerkiller68]

This decision is hard!!

[68magOwner]

for the $$$, i think a used, upped DM3 is a much better investment than a DM4, shoots every bit as good, and is more efficent (assuming it has a decent bolt kit) i would also recommend a second look at the viking though, not really big by any means, the 04 model as a whole 2 oz heavier than the dm4, but, you know, that may jsut slow you down :rolleyes: as stated before, its preally personal preferance, i have owned ~30 markers, i plan on keeping my viking (came terribly close to trading it for a proto trix, but, restrained myself) may want to hold out untill reviews about the new smart parst ION come out, if its halfway decent, it will probably be the best bang for the buck around by far.

[cockerkiller68]

OK guys...BIG DUMB QUESTION!!

Whats the difference between the TERMS:

DM3 (I assume Dye Matrix '03)

DM4 (I assume Dye Matrix '04)

'04 DM3 (saw one advertized on AO)

Matrix LCD

2k2 Matrix

2k3 Matrix



Are some of these the same guns?? :confused:


Sorry if this is a retarded question..

[Koz]

Or between Naughty Dawg Freestyle or DM4?

Try them out...There aren't a lot of people with freestyles in the Bay Area compared to DM's. If you want to try one I have a 04 ND. I'm in San Leandro and play usually at Operation Paintball.

Koz

If you want to see one in a shop California Paintball Supply in Fremont has them. [They're in the Irvington District off of Fremont Blvd almost to the Safeway]

[magman007]

ok, the matrix types are as folows

slide switch led... just what it sounds like, an led board, with a slide switch to turn it on and off, oldest matrixes to date

pushbutton led, revised edition of the led matrix has standard bolt kit as does the slide switch. neither had eyes standard push button had lpr

lcd matrix, stock with lpr, and and lcd board. started comming stock with the "image" bolt kit, a more efficient bolt kit over the regular kit, didnt come with eyes. ^^^ all the aboive were manufactured by GEN-E before dye purchased the rights to the trix.

DM3, baisically an lcd matrix, stock with eyes, dye regs, etc. came with slightly more milling than the lcd.

dm4... new marker based off the matrix opperation, many differences between the 2.

dm5.... you get the point

[matmc89]

i have a viking, i love it. They shoot great, weight isnt horrible. Never had a problem with it, and got 3rd in a tournament with it yesterday :)

[68magOwner]

i have a viking, i love it. They shoot great, weight isnt horrible. Never had a problem with it, and got 3rd in a tournament with it yesterday :)

a tournement in which over all all day, we scored HUNDREDS more points than any other team, just sucked in the finals :( anyway, yeah, both mine and his rocked all day, shooting 4 and 1/2 cases, with not a single break between us, super fast, super efficent, great markers

[bokraham]

well, I have an 04 freestyle w/ out HE kit, and I love it. I have shot DM4s and really don't see much difference in kick. My freestyle is fast, light, and dead sexy. Anyone who says that they are ugly have only seen them on the internet. The main thing that haters say is that the HPR is too short. Once you hold the gun in your hands you will forget all about the shortness of the HPR, which I believe is comfy. I will admit that the side panels make the gun ugly, that's why I took mine off, which is pretty easy to do. As for efficency, I get around 1000 shots off of a 68/45, which isn't really all that bad. The freestyle is also great on maintenence, pop out one screw on the back and the whole bolt assembly slides out, just like a mag. I have two proformance complaints. 1 is that the trigger has mucho slop, but a couple of companys make ball bearing triggers for the freestyle, as well as the DM4. 2 the LPR just plain sucks. www.stdindustries.com is coming out with a better one tomorrow.

personally, I have been asked to trade my new freestyle w/ 4000 balls through it for a DM4 that had a season on it and I turned it down.

[Steelrat]

Goodness knows I like vikings, but I just got this in, and its pretty nice too:

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/mcalhaney/Big%20sale/borg2.jpg

[tek4dr]

It all depends on how you want to spend your money. I've owned a DM4 now own a DM5. I also have a Timmy. The DM4 never gave me any problems and the air issue was never really a problem because I play a lot of speedball and after each game I would just get more air. I also have the an 04 Viking that is very fast especially on DeBounce 1 :wow: