someone convince me to buy a mag...

[pbjunkie87]

hey...i don't mean to be mean, but i have a cocker and was wondering what the big deal is about mags...i mean, yea, they're small and light, butwhat else about the makes them good? I'd really like to try one out to see for myself....I'm trying to decide if i should sell my cocker and get a mag, or stick w/ the cocker?

Basically, what i'm saying is: can someone put up a list of pros and cons for the mag? (preferably a e-mag)

Thanks!

[White_Noise]

pros:

easy to maintain
light weight
will fire faster than you can shoot it
lvl10 provides virtually no chops
low profile

cons:
lvl 10 takes a bit to tune, but is far easier to tune than a cocker



ive shot owned/own both mech and E cockers as well as mech and Emags. i got tired of timing my cockers, so i sold one/have one for sale. with the mag, barring any small lvl10 problems(usually fixed by oil) the only thing i have to do to maintain it it wipe it down, and oil it up before i play.

[GT]

they're small and light, butwhat else about the makes them good?

I dont think I have seen a cocker lighter than a ule mag

[johnson88]

Relibilty and simplictay also the ability to make them look really nics and diffrent.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Another con no one mentioned, they are inefficent by todays standards. If you compare them to high end guns such as Timmys and Cyborgs, then they are inefficent. However, they still do just fine. I get around 1300 off my 88 with 3700 psi in it. But most fields have all day air so this is not a problem.

[REDRT]

You must already be somewhat convinced to be asking.

[AutomagBoy]

Time for every automag lover to hate me :p Nothing about the mag is better than the cocker. If you shoot a mag and love it your not going to care about all the good things on your cocker and you are going to think that the mag has no flaws. Same thing with the cocker. Sure i could go through the specs and point out all the technical flaws or technical wonders. The differance between a mag and cocker isn't great enough to pick one over the other based entirely on specs.

[shatter_storm]

Cockers can drop out of time, mag's LX can drop out of tune.
Mags have to be resprung for drastic velocity changes, cockers don't.
Cockers have more failure points.
Mags have a lot of cosmetic and handling upgrades, cockers just have cosmetics.
Both take e-upgrades, both e-upgrades cost a lot of money,


I'd say you should try out a mag and see if it feels good to you. Or, if you've got a bit of money, buy a used emag or RTpro - they're great markers.

[kurama]

Another con no one mentioned, they are inefficent by todays standards. If you compare them to high end guns such as Timmys and Cyborgs, then they are inefficent. However, they still do just fine. I get around 1300 off my 88 with 3700 psi in it. But most fields have all day air so this is not a problem.

It wasn't put as a con because cockers aren't efficient either. Both about the same air efficiency, maybe another extra 100 shots to the cocker if you sweetspot it.

With the ULT trigger kit, mags have lighter trigger pulls by quite a bit. Only some mech cockers can get close in this aspect. Mags are also lighter in weight and smaller in size, even without the Xvalve/ULE body combo. Indestructable too. The Level X bolt takes a bit of tuning, but it's less work than timing a cocker and one of those "learnt once, remember forever" things. Mags also have an anti-chop system while mech. It seems the RT ULE is more geared towards the speedballer and either is good for woodsball.

On the other hand, cockers are more upgradable. While at a certain point in upgrading, you reach the max potential in a mech (which is quite easy), you can tweak it to your preference. Cockers are more expensive, also. Everything else is either even or differs depending on the cocker's setup. On the other hand, cockers are cheaper to convert to an electro. You can pick uo used eblades for $225, while Emag lowers tend to go in the 300+$ range.

Really, the advantages either has over the other is quite minimal. They're both great markers and it's preference between the two. Try them out. If you can't, ask yourself if you really like your cocker. If you aren't 100% happy with it, sell it and pick up a used RT ULE. If you like the RT ULE, keep it. If not, sell it and get another cocker. Since you bought used, you won't loose any cash.

[Won Hunglo]

How about this? Buy a mag so you can blend me a paintball margarita.

[amrani]

How about this? Buy a mag so you can blend me a paintball margarita.

obviously never heard of a little thing called LEVEL 10 which is not only featured on the homepage of this site, it has been mentioned quite a few times in here. also the e-mag has ACE capabilities. there is no real difference IMO

[minimag03]

If you like your cocker then keep it. If you don't like it, but want to stay mech, get a mag. Simple as that.

[JimmyBeam]

Ease of maintenance

[Little_Ho]

Hi

where are you from???? If you close to SC we could meet up and you can shoot my setup!!!

And find it out.

No realy i had a cocker first, i liked it i realy did, then i shoot a friends Mag and was amaized how easy it is, he showed me how to Fieldstripp it and clean it. Then i tought ok, i buy one off eBay. After a while i had a plain ugly Powerfeed Classic Mag. Then i found this place.

The Classic Mag was shooting fine not just what i looked for. Then i startet to Upgrade them and sell/Trade them for Stuff i wanted. The Mag fever was there.

Here are some Mags i had or still have.

The first one i bought from eBay, it was ugly, shopping and short strocking, that was all my fault.
http://mitglied.lycos.de/pezipezi/America/Paintball/Marker/Automag%20first%20time%20buy/Automag%20left1.jpg

then i put some Upgrades on it. As you can telll, Y-Gripp, Minimag body for a Warp and a nice Barrel.
http://mitglied.lycos.de/pezipezi/America/Paintball/Marker/Automag%20after%20Upgrade/Minimag%20Warpbody%20ReTro%20Warp%2014inch%20Teard rop.JPG

After all that experience i startet and made me an ULE Mag with x-Valve diffrent Rail Grippframe ans so on. This bad boy ripps i run 3500Rounds thru it in just 4,5h past Saturday and its an all mechanic.

http://mitglied.lycos.de/pezipezi/America/Paintball/Marker/Updated/X-Valve/right%20sideview2.JPG


So after all that, iam Building an E-Mag and a Pump Mag.
I think a Mag is reliable like an Tippy A5, can shoot fast and it can be light as hell.
Sofar i have a Classic RT (Airway to the Valve is diffrent), a WGP Cocker, my lovely bad boy Mag (last pic) and i will own a couple more if iam done.

The Mags are eassier to maintain, you dont need to Time the Trigger , 3-4Ways, Ram or any of that. All you need to do is take care of your Level10 and oil it. Thats what i do. I clean my Marker after every Game and take care on my stuff.

Thats all i do

Hope that helps. But realy let me know where you life and if its not to far away i will let you shoot mine and then decide.

[phantomhitman]

to everyone saying a cocker is not efficient, you are very wrong. after i installed my free flow internals i was getting pretty close to 1000 shots off of a 68-3 tank. that is pretty good in my eyes. if i ever get my cocker running agian i will do an exact shot count test, but it was pretty high.

[Little_Ho]

Hi

yeah i forgot to say

THE MAG IS A GAS HOG!!!!!

But if you go to a field the most time you buy for a couple bugs All Day fillings. So why not using it???????

I get pretty much 800-900 shoots out of mine 68/4500 Crossifre HP. And iam ok with that.
Tha last Game past Saturday was a little bit pain, they filled Nitrogen out of Scuba Tanks and i had only fillings from about 2600psi. I filled my Bottle up after every Game, that was no bothering me.

So long

[GT]

There isnt anything special about FF internals. There are only two cockers I would ever consider owning, I have owned 1/2 dozen in the past, a revenge or one of Doc Nickel's fastbacks.


if i ever get my cocker running agian .

:rofl: :rofl:

[phantomhitman]

i really do think there is something special about their internals if you get that kind of effeciency. i had hte complete set from valve to ivg. they worked great for me, especially over stock parts. but like you quoted IT DOES NOT WORK :mad:

[skife]

mags have a feel to them... hard to explain, but its definatally a mag feel.

[GT]

i really do think there is something special about their internals if you get that kind of effeciency. i had hte complete set from valve to ivg. they worked great for me, especially over stock parts. but like you quoted IT DOES NOT WORK :mad:


so you are telling me that the only company that makes good cocker parts os FF? i think good effiency comes from proper internal weight and matched springs.

[phantomhitman]

wow, i guess i did say free flow is the only people making good cocker parts :rolleyes:

if you get that from me saying free flow helped out my effeciency then so be it. its not like the slik kit on my cocker sucks, the besales ram, qevv, or ccm pump arm helps out either. my effeciency went up before i upgraded the slik kit or pump arm, so do not even try to use that.

people jump to conclusions very quickly around here, try to calm down. you do not need to read between the lines about every single post. oh yeah, im perfect by the way, so everyone lsiten to me and buy free flow parts :rolleyes:

on the topic now. some cockers never break, others never work (mine). i do not fiddle around with crap, i set it up and it worked flawless for 3 months, now it will only cycle abuot 100 shots before it starts magically skipping shots. it is going to the second cocker tech this week, i will let you know the outcome.

[SOAD8789]

cockers shoot nice, but i dont like the feel. if you could get the feel of a mag, and let it shoot like a cocker, then that would be the best mech gun created. i like mags though, they are great guns. cockers are smoother and everything, but mags just have something...special? sounds kinda gay...but oh well.

[Little_Ho]

Hi

no, SOAD8789 is right.

Mags have something special. I owned a Cocker they shoot nice and smooth but Mags are special. I dont know exactly what it is but there is something special on any Mag out there.

I like them and i will have more and more.

Little_Ho

[Maggot6]

go to www.pbnation.com and the AGD part of it. they have a "why should I buy a mag" thread, I found it helpful.

[Blazestorm]

I personally don't like the way they shoot and think they're tempermental. Sure... some of them were tanks... others were complete crap.

I'd trust a well built cocker over a mag, cockers shoot better.

[dahoeb]

they're both very different feeling markers. mags have snappier triggers and quick actions, that tiny LX bolt blasts forward and gets pushed right back, thats basically it. cockers on the other hand feel like they have a smoother operation. i think they sorta give the illusion of elogance and greatness because they're more sophisticated. i know it sounds dumb but think about it, if something looks complex and intriquite, and feels complex and intriquite, with the unique sound it makes, smooth trigger and back block moving around, people will tell themselves, "Wow, this thing is so advanced looking and built, it must shoot better than other markers!". when in actuality, almost all paintball guns do basically the same thing, shoot paintballs out a barrel. they just have a different means of getting there. just because something is more complicated doesn't mean its better than the simpler alternative, hence KISS. autocockers just take the much more complicated route to do the same thing that spyders and mags and everything else do.

i know a lot of you people are thinking "wow, this guys an idiot...", but i'm not just pulling all of this out of my @$$. i've shot cockers before. are they good markers? oh they definately are! but performance wise, (except for ROF), are they really any more accurate or consistent than my old ir3, my xmag, or my old intimidator? nope. sure the marker felt like it fired smoother, but with my other markers, i was hitting everything my cocker could hit just the same. my markers used either a pipe barrel or freak and pmi 68/45, and all my high end markers gave me similar accuracy and consistency results. (but thats not a bad thing, the results were always good)

to sum it up, when it comes down to high end markers, the only real performance difference between them is trigger feel and basic design. chopping problems are all but completely eliminated in virtually all high end markers, they're all very accurate given a good paint/barrel match and consistent air supply. with all day air i wouldn't really consider efficiency much to be thought of, as long as 1 fill will get you through 1 game. when looking to purchase a high end marker, you pretty much should base most of it on trigger feel, general comfort, and how devoted or good you are at maintaining that particular type of marker. Its all really just preference in the end. some people don't mind a little weight on their marker, some do. some don't like the mouse clicky feel, some do. some dont like single tube design and some despise the stacked tube. some enjoy tinkering and timing, some don't. between mags and cockers, we can't really help you much with that decision because the only way people like one over the other is if they try them out and decide which design they fancy more. are mags worth a try? i'd definately say so, especially if youre into mechs.
i'm sorry if i sorta got off the topic with this post but i hope i helped a little.

[Conversekidz]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/1boredboy/kitten.jpg

[peewee]

well everyone has coverd it in a muddy waters kind of way. :headbang:

[XSSPL]

http://i21.ebayimg.com/01/i/02/ec/c3/c9_1_b.JPG

:D

I can't stand cockers. Tom and Budd set out to make blow forwards. Tom's is simple and goes into immediate production and is widely accepted as the marker for the tourney play of the time. Budd's on the other hand ends up like an experiment done by the mecahnical engineering version of schizophrenic's failed vacuum cleaner project. More hoses, valves, springs, rods, pins, finely milled what-cha-where-the-hell-does-this-go... things than should ever be needed, but by dang - there they are! It's like the guy that breaks out a multi-meter and writes three hypothethis as to why the kitchen light is out, when all the nimrod has to do is FLIP THE SWITCH!!


Keep
It
Simple
Stupid!

[mercury]

I don't post here often but when I do, it's because I think it's something important so here is my attempt to persuade you to buy a mag. I bought my first mag about 3 years ago: a classic Automag RT. The thing was heavy, not very attractive to most, and chopped a lot of paint. I loved that thing. When it did chop, all I had to do was dunk it in water, pull it out, and wipe it off. There was nothing better than wiping the smug look off of some kids face who thought he was the best because he owned an Angel. I had to sell this because I needed money and was deploying with the Marines.

A year or so went by and I decided to get back into the sport. I bought another Automag, this time one with a classic valve, ULE body, and level 10 bolt. I had never experienced level 10 before and I was amazed. I amazed people by sticking my finger in the breech and firing it. It was awesome.

Fast forward to now, where I am once again deployed and I am missing the sport as well as my Mag (which is still sitting at home.) I am making up for it by buying all the parts needed to make my own personal Mag with everything I want on it. I have a Dallara body, X-Valve, ULT, and all new accesories on the way home in hopes that they will be there for me when I return. I am spending $600-700 on just the marker. People may call me crazy for spending that much when I could buy a decent electro for that price. But, it's because there's something special about owning a Mag. You are typically looked at as an underdog. A man much wiser than me once told me, "Walk small, but carry a big stick." That's my motto when I go out on the field with my Mag.

On a side note, I did borrow a friend's Dye Cocker for a few weeks one time. I also loved that marker. It was so smooth and oh so pretty. It didn't give me problems while I had it. But, I just liked the Mags better. It's all personal preference but you will never go wrong in buying a Mag...especially with all the new technology. Another thing, should there ever be a problem, it's likely nothing this community can't help you fix.

Sorry for rambling...you fellas have a good day. :)

[pbjunkie87]

ok, thanks for all the input...

i just want a nice gun that's cheap, electro, light, and gas-efficient.

I'll have to try out a mag and see what i like.

All the ULEs and RTs and "Powerfeed"s all over, it's sorta confusing.... someone want to tell/show me a gun that is what i want? i dunno which kind to get cuz i'm not sure what they all do.

thanks!

[GT]

ok, thanks for all the input...

i just want a nice gun that's cheap, electro, light, and gas-efficient.

I'll have to try out a mag and see what i like.

All the ULEs and RTs and "Powerfeed"s all over, it's sorta confusing.... someone want to tell/show me a gun that is what i want? i dunno which kind to get cuz i'm not sure what they all do.

thanks!


Go to the agd store, tunaman or rogfactor. as far as body, make sure its a ULE. If you want an electro like trigger order it with a ULT. Thats all you need to know

[peewee]

Cheap & electro usually are not in the same sentence when speaking of a mag. Most mags are mech but fast mechs. Unless you are able to find one used. New figure +$800.

Heres a link that will clear up the body styles some.

http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=368&categoryID=79

Decent prices if AGD is out.

http://www.themagsmith.com/cgi-bin/index2.cgi?product=viper.cgi

[93civiccpe]

Hey,
I own both a mag and an autococker so maybe I can give a neutral opinion. I thought the opinions would be way more mag biased seeing as this is an automags forum, but I was plesantly surprised. Ignore the idiots whose only statement is "cockers suck" or "mags suck". Obviously they are just biased towards their own gun.

I have a mech autococker and a mech mag. I got the mag because I loved the feel of my brother-in-law's minimag, so I built one to play with. The funny thing... my brother in law is building a cocker because he loves the feel of mine. Both are great guns. Both have upgrades that are Functional AND Cosmetic. (Plenty of functional upgrades to the autococker for the person who said there are only cosmetic differences). As far as tuning, on a mech version of each, both are not difficult. I would say the autococker is a slight bit more difficult. But if you know what you are doing, either gun is very easy to tune.

When you talk about e-cockers and e-mags then that takes away the pneumatics problems of the autococker because the eblade/racegun/sys-x system takes care of the timing itself. All you have to tune on a mag is the lvl-x to prevent chops. On an autococker, you just adjust the LPR to prevent chops, so that it pinches instead of breaks. Both are very impressive as electro's.

When talking about efficiency, the autococker is more efficient. Mags have been known as "air hogs" but they really aren't that bad. But I play a lot of woodsplay on private property, where you only have the air that you bring, and on those days my mag rarely comes out of the bag. I have run out of air while playing the mag, whereas I have never had that happen with my cocker so far.

As far as weight is concerned, I have played some really light mech mags before. The only thing that adds weight to the emag is the ugly battery pack. (why couldn't they have made that battery foregrip round?? lol). On average, the mags are a little lighter, but this isn't the case if you get a racegun half-block autococker, but those cost some serious $$. The Karnivour is also very light, but that gun is a like it or hate it type gun, and costs even more $$.

As far as shootdown is concerned, I have never had a problem with either in that department. As far as accuracy is concerned, there is no major difference. When trying to pick people long range I feel more comfortable with my autococker because I like the trajectory and I know the feel & range of it. When it comes to laying a lot of fire up close, I like my mech mag in my hand because I like the trigger on it.

Both are really great guns. Both have unique and distinctive feels. I would advise you to build an inexpensive mech minimag (like I did) and play both guns to get a good feel of them. Most likely you will enjoy both guns. Playing the mech versions will give you a good idea of how they play. Then you can decide if you still want an electronic version, but it's expensive for either.

If you do want to built a mag, or have any more questions, feel free to contact me. I also have a nice body, rail, foregrip, and a couple other pieces for a minimag that I have extra after building mine that I could sell you for a good deal.

I hope this helped. I would definitely advise trying out a mag because they are very fun to play with.
God Bless,
Shaun

[ApexAZ]

How about this? Buy a mag so you can blend me a paintball margarita.

Mags don't chop.

[JoshK]

Mags don't chop.

Besides every once in a while if the lvl 10 isnt tuned right. Or if you have lvl 7 and a crappy gravity feed hopper (me a while ago :()

Also...there is a thread just like this at the link given.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=170910

[AGD202]

basicly there are 3 things nice bout mags over cockers.... Light, Fast, and Easy in every way


That explains the whole gun

[JimmyBeam]

Mags don't chop.
you meant to say lev X's dont chop, because mags do

[ApexAZ]

you meant to say lev X's dont chop, because mags do

Mags with Level X don't chop. Assuming he buys new, it will most likely come with a level x.

[BD_Paintball]

Mags with Level X don't chop. Assuming he buys new, it will most likely come with a level x.

Mags with LX can still chop if you don’t know how to set them up or you get an odd LX like I did. I have set up many lvl10's so they do not chop but for some reason mine always chopped like crazy. Don’t know why but it didn’t work, but the other ones I set up worked good. If you want a fast, light, cheap (in price) get the new ion. My friend got one to back up his proto and he loves it. Or you can always get an upped imp or bko. I traded my mag for an uped imp and I don’t regret it one bit

[CuLane]

Buy one to say you have one. They're awesome. And a paintball marker collection does more than just collect dust, it lets you change your playing by just enough to put the "new" element back into your game, and lets you lend very good markers to friends new to our sport so they don't suffer the bummer of the field rentals.

hey...i don't mean to be mean, but i have a cocker and was wondering what the big deal is about mags...i mean, yea, they're small and light, butwhat else about the makes them good? I'd really like to try one out to see for myself....I'm trying to decide if i should sell my cocker and get a mag, or stick w/ the cocker?

Basically, what i'm saying is: can someone put up a list of pros and cons for the mag? (preferably a e-mag)

Thanks!

[don miguel]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/1boredboy/kitten.jpg
i guess he killed a kitten last night.... (i ordered a ss25) :D

[don miguel]

just watch this video. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=u-OwVRD2SOE&mode=related&search=)
cockers are nice and so are mags. :cheers:

[jenarelJAM]

This thread is from 2005. Why'd you resurrect it?

[don miguel]

This thread is from 2005. Why'd you resurrect it?
i didn't, it was on the first thread page 10 minutes ago, i just resopnded to it. someone else resserected it.

[jenarelJAM]

I'm talking to CuLane

[don miguel]

I'm talking to CuLane
oh. my bad.

[__Phoenix__]

Mags with LX can still chop if you don’t know how to set them up or you get an odd LX like I did. I have set up many lvl10's so they do not chop but for some reason mine always chopped like crazy. ....
Any gun will chop if set up incorrectly. Try not tuning your eyes right... chop chop. I properly tuned level 10 will not chop unless you hold the same ball in the boltpath and pound on it repeatedly.

BTW, when a mech cocker does this... then I'll look into buying one.
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