Sigs getting turned off

[AGD]

AO,

Since we are having so much drama over the sig rules and much of it is now falling out on me I have decided to just turn them off.

On another note challenging the mods is not going to get you anywhere. If someone gets banned you should just stand back and not make things worse. If push comes to shove you are going to need a pretty darn good reason to get me to change the mods decisions.

Everyone knows I don't do well with conflict so take that as a threat to the whole forum.

Thanks

Tom Kaye

[SpecialBlend2786]

rgr that.

Should help a few things on AO I hope

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

I'm already hearing alotta complaining.

: puts on ear muffs :

[Blazestorm]

What about just 1 line of text?

Haha, I just want to have my feedback linked there that's all.

Good call though.

[TMAXXKING1]

I'm already hearing alotta complaining.

: puts on ear muffs :


yeah 10/4 on that one .. you have to love these lil retards and the crap they want to stir up and then cry the blues about a ban....

tom i would like to say thanks for makeing the mag possible

i have had over 75 markers ...

started with a tippmann prolite got my lil bro to sell me his mag back in idk like 95


got out of paintball for along time ...

i have had alot of markers in the last year .... and i am down to 2 main the emag and my mech rogue hooked me up with some killer products....


any way i would like to say thanks for all you have done to this sport

that seems to be turning into a spoiled rich kids look at me sport ...

real sad

i can do without my sig but would be very happy if there was away to have a hyper link to my feedback .... to me that is a major loss for future sales or trades ...

[SpecialBlend2786]

i can do without my sig but would be very happy if there was away to have a hyper link to my feedback .... to me that is a major loss for future sales or trades ...

well, you can keep the link to your feedback in your sig, and just say in your for sale post to see your profile for your feedback link. Sigs have been turned off, not deleted, so you can still view them in your profile.

[TMAXXKING1]

thanks man i am happy to see that .... :cheers: :cheers: :clap: :clap:

[Muzikman]

I think this a very good move. It's something that I think should have been done a long time ago. It will take away from the spice of AO, but seriously, why do you need a sig, hell, I just use mine to show off all my AGD products. It some how makes me feel special...and not in the short bus kinda way.

[SpecialBlend2786]

I think this a very good move. It's something that I think should have been done a long time ago. It will take away from the spice of AO, but seriously, why do you need a sig, hell, I just use mine to show off all my AGD products. It some how makes me feel special...and not in the short bus kinda way.

the only thing i really used sigs for was to scan a thread to see where i last posted.

And Mr. Beam i believe i would ride the same bus :(

EDIT: actually not, since I never showed off my collection like you did :wow:

[Jack & Coke]

whew!

...for a minute there I thought it was my sig (old pic of Tom shooting a paintball out of a trumpet) that lead to sigs being turned off... ;)

[Sk8ermog]

Why do a few people have to mess it up for the rest of us. I spent hours designing my sig and making it my mark here on the forum. The feedback link is really a big deal to me too. I'm not whining or saying I'm going to leave the forum over this. I just wanted to vent my frustration with the fact that AO has to now be treated like PBnation or other forums. But I guess all good things must come to an end.

Tom, I love you man and I'm sorry are getting so much crud from the Sig and banning issues. Hope all is well and that you don't have to disipline us anymore cause we know it trully does hurt you more then it hurts us.

And with all that said I make my 2k post.

[Target Practice]

Since everyone is probably going to complain in this thread, just keep in mind who's fault it was that the sigs are getting turned off.

[BigEvil]

AO is becoming a nest of drama queens.

[shartley]

This is sad, and for many reasons. And that is all I will say.

[1stdeadeye]

Bye bye sig. :cry:

[JAM]

sigs are overrated.

;)

[Lohman446]

Well, when it comes a point that sig.s where the base cause of most of the moderator action against established members and the most common violation of the rules by known members, as well as the source of a lot of complaining by members and mods it was time for them to go.

Unfortunately we, as a group, frankly could not handle them. Sure we all pay the price to an extent for it, but who really cares.

As to those who say that there sig was there mark on this forum. Make your mark the discussions you have, the place you have in discussions, and who you are through your thoughts. Not some picture...

I would like to see a movement of the "conflict". Perhaps an open thread in the "ban" forum. You want to question mods, you do it there so not everyone has to see it. Then again, perhaps this most recent action will take care of it.

Remember folks, this forum continuing, and TKs presence on it, which I for one value, no longer serve a business purpose to him. Zupe seems to show little interest in it, and I beleive it may be left to Tom to handle. If we cannot be reasonable on it, if we cannot run it without whining to TK and Zupe.... well if something that is of questionable value becomes a problem, you simply get rid of it.

It seemed like this last winter to, I just hope that spring comes, the snow melts, and people get back to playing before this forum is destroyed or lost.

[Lee]

i feel that to lose my sig because of the actions a few people is wrong and i resent being grouped with the whole for the actions of a few.

it's not all about the sig, though i do feel they are entertaining and i enjoy seeing what other people have to say. i feel it adds depth of character to the forum and an insight into other members that i may not ever get to meet in person. it helps "flesh them out" so to speak.

please reconsider and direct action at thiose that deserve it.

need someone to be the bad guy? i volunteer. i don't need mod powers, just tell me who to talk to and i will. i'll take their crap for just as long as it takes to compose an email and tell them why the mods removed a sig or banned them.

[Maggot6]

Whoa, posts look naked now that they are gone... :tard:

[thecavemankevin]

Why do a few people have to mess it up for the rest of us. I spent hours designing my sig and making it my mark here on the forum. The feedback link is really a big deal to me too. I'm not whining or saying I'm going to leave the forum over this. I just wanted to vent my frustration with the fact that AO has to now be treated like PBnation or other forums. But I guess all good things must come to an end.

Tom, I love you man and I'm sorry are getting so much crud from the Sig and banning issues. Hope all is well and that you don't have to disipline us anymore cause we know it trully does hurt you more then it hurts us.

And with all that said I make my 2k post.

ditto :(

oh well

[BigEvil]

Since everyone is probably going to complain in this thread, just keep in mind who's fault it was that the sigs are getting turned off.

Who's fault? Fill us in.

[fire1811]

I understand Tom

although I dont like it, I also understand I dont pay the bills.

Thank you for letting us have them this long

[punkncat]

All I can say is thanks very much to the idiots who couldn't follow rules and screwed up a good thing for all of us.

Way to go guys!

Kinda like boot camp. One guy screws up and all suffer.... :mad:

On a less whiney note, it would be really cool to add a feedback tag...kinda like whats already there for AIM, etc., so that we can keep an easily accesible link to our good trades w/o having to type "look at profile" all the time...

[fire1811]

also any chance on avitars?

they can be set so you cannot upload a avitar over a certain size.
would be a lot smaller also

again up to you.

[Empyreal Rogue]

Fine by me. Well, sorta.

Now how are we going to advertise for the AO-Mid-Atlantic day? :(

[shartley]

All I can say is thanks very much to the idiots who couldn't follow rules and screwed up a good thing for all of us.

Way to go guys!

Kinda like boot camp. One guy screws up and all suffer.... :mad:

On a less whiney note, it would be really cool to add a feedback tag...kinda like whats already there for AIM, etc., so that we can keep an easily accesible link to our good trades w/o having to type "look at profile" all the time...
If it were only that simple. But the issue was not just some idiots who couldn’t follow the rules, there was much more to it than that. All of this can be found by anyone who actually reads AO and the threads which actually got a lot of attention.

also any chance on avitars?

they can be set so you cannot upload a avitar over a certain size.
would be a lot smaller also

again up to you.
From what I have experienced on other forums, Avatars are even harder to keep under control than signatures….. and that is an understatement.

[fire1811]

From what I have experienced on other forums, Avatars are even harder to keep under control than signatures….. and that is an understatement.

really? any idea why? i figured they would be easier.
thanks

[Army]

:D

[punkncat]

Shartley, you are right.

Sig guidelines are not the issue here. There are deeper matters that need to be dealt with to keep this forum alive, healthy, and diverse. This was just the problem of the moment. Really a non issue, and this bandaid measure will just make it come out somewhere else...

There is a lot of displeasure with the way things are being handled by both members and mods. Too many people griping about stupid(EDIT)stuff(EDIT) and the end result is going to be the death of the forums. They are already gone as we have known them.

I hope we don't all have to sit down in Geneva to settle this.....lol

Seriously, I hope we don't get Tom so frustrated that he finally decides the drama isn't worth the effort and do away with the forum altogether. I would hate to lose this place.

[slade]

:( there must be a way to set up code to keep the sigs within the guidlines... i liked my sig :cry: and half the time i identified people by their sigs. AO looks so bare now...

[shartley]

Sorry for my upcoming post, but this brings up an issue that has bothered me for a long time….

Fine by me. Well, sorta.

Now how are we going to advertise for the AO-Mid-Atlantic day? :(
Well, how about putting it in the appropriate forum section?

The notion that people have to “advertise” anything in the main general chat section of the forums totally baffles me. The forum is set up with many sections, each dedicated to a specific thing. But on AO, it seems that it does not really matter that the forum has been set up this way. The admin/moderators seem to allow all sorts of out of section content threads…. as long as they are just advertisements for another thread in another forum section with a link to it.

I don’t think any out of section content threads should be allowed, but that is me. Why allow a “look what I have for sale” thread (only minus the actual price) and a link to the actual for sale thread (be it private or business) in the general forums when the actual thread is not section content appropriate? I have heard some of this was because some of the products were simply MAG products (even if by 3rd party businesses). But that just didn’t make sense to me. There is a whole forum section dedicated to that sort of thing, and if folks WANT the products they know where they are.

The same is true with “events”. Those who are looking to go to an event know (or should by now) that there is an entire section dedicated to that sort of thing. None of this is hidden, or even difficult to find at best.

And the same can be said about “tech” issues. But those tend to be moved over to the appropriate sections pretty regularly… unlike many of the other out of section threads.

Now don’t get me wrong, this is not “my” forum, and the owner/admin/moderators can do what they want. But as a forum member, I am simply posting my thoughts on a matter that has baffled me for some time. And it seems that lately addressing “issues” seems to be popular. ;)

really? any idea why? i figured they would be easier.
thanks
The reason it is often harder to control Avatars is because of the ease in which a member can change it as well as the availability of pre-made Avatars out there. It has been my experience that abuse (or inappropriate use) of Avatars is much quicker to happen than signatures for this very reason. I have seen folks who would know NOT to put something in their signatures think nothing of slapping up a grossly inappropriate Avatar.

And that even happens on forums you would think it would NOT happen on. Truly, it even surprised ME.

[BD_Paintball]

awwww my feedback link :cry: :cry: :cry:

[hitech]

Since we are having so much drama over the sig rules and much of it is now falling out on me I have decided to just turn them off...


Damn, guess I should have kept quite. I loved my sig and now I feel partially resonsible for loosing it...



On another note challenging the mods is not going to get you anywhere. If someone gets banned you should just stand back and not make things worse.

Sorry to hear that. Looks like I may stand a chance of being banned for the first time...



Everyone knows I don't do well with conflict so take that as a threat to the whole forum.


I never have known when to shut up...

[AGD-OfficeGal]

I run a forum elsewhere and signatures are a major issue there, too; although I don't believe we've ever had to ban anybody because of a signature, we've had a few people get huffy and leave because they were told their signatures violated our guidelines.

Having dealt with the issue so much, I understand why nobody likes losing the ability to have signatures. My suggestion is to look around and see what else is irritating TK, the mods (and each other enough to irritate TK and the mods) and work on cleaning those things up - if y'all show that you're willing to work to get the privilege of signatures back, you'll give TK a reason to at least reconsider. I'm not presuming to speak for him - only giving you a suggestion to try out. At the very least it ought to make AO a more pleasant place! ;)

Marcia

[SlartyBartFast]

awwww my feedback link :cry: :cry: :cry:

What's the big deal? Put it in your profile. :rolleyes:

Seeing as the signature is still there, anyone who cares can access it simply by clicking on your name.

Anyone can also get to your homepage and other links without any effort and you don't clutter up the boards for those that don't care.

Glad I don't have to put up with the whining that the Mods and Tom obviously have to put up with. :(

[Chronobreak]

no signature or avatar!! :eek:

gosh!

uhm time to start being UBER creative and adding things in "other" places


IE location: themagsmith.com :p

[punkncat]

There are person(s) with too much power over others ability to state an opinion or attempt to make/prove a point through their public(or even private)messages. This ability is enforced by a vague set of rules that doesn't have to be followed to the letter by those enacting them....(read through some closed posts and you will see not one but MANY examples of this behavior, and mostly by one person) There is no check or balance. There is no oversight. When an outcry is made about the unfairness of this ability, or to question the reasoning behind it, the answer is "none of your buisiness" or "bring it up, get banned".

Made worse by the fact that there are certain other peole who feel its their personal mission in life to bring these inconsistancies and the grey area of the rules to light and question with every single post. In spite of warnings, they continue to frustrate the powers that be with this garbage, pissing EVERYONE off when stopgap measures (like this) get enforced to put a bandaid on the situation. Due mostly to others inability to leave well enough alone.

Sigs aren't the problem. Certain people and their interpretation of the rules and or their ability/power to enforce them are.

[Lohman446]

TK seems to be the father of AO, and has been referenced as such.

As with parents, you settle the issue of the day, and leave your kids to work things out amongst themselves.

Now... the issue of the day is handled.. lets quit fighting with one another before further measures, perhaps even more drastic, need to be handled.

AO is of little advantage to TK, Zupe does not seem to use it to his advantage (could be wrong). They are supporting it to be nice to us... lets not push them.

[SlartyBartFast]

There are person(s) with too much power over others ability to state an opinion or attempt to make/prove a point through their public (or even private) messages. This ability is enforced by a vague set of rules that doesn't have to be followed to the letter by those enacting them....(read through some closed posts and you will see not one but MANY examples of this behavior, and mostly by one person)

Grow up, and welcome to the real world.


There is no check or balance. There is no oversight.

Yes there is. This is a forum that is privately owned and run. The oversight and “balance” is provided by the owner(s).


When an outcry is made about the unfairness of this ability, or to question the reasoning behind it, the answer is "none of your buisiness" or "bring it up, get banned".

So, be civil and mature. Question the ruling/judgement respectfully and then abide by the explaination.


And to make it all worse, the rulings being handed down commonly lack consistancy.

Welcome to real life. Imagine getting pulled over for speeding and saying: “Officer. HOW DARE YOU GIVE ME A SPEEDING TICKET! Come ON! Look at all the other guys speeding fast. Some of you guys are just real jerks who don’t know what you’re doing...”

Think that would get you off a speeding fine? No, you’d get an escalation of the charges.


Made worse by the fact that there are certain other peole who feel its their personal mission in life to bring these inconsistancies and the grey area of the rules to light and question with every single post. In spite of warnings, they continue to frustrate the powers that be with this garbage, pissing EVERYONE off when stopgap measures get enforced to put a bandaid on the situation.

Are you complaining about the mods enforcing the rules to the best of their ability or the whiners that won’t abide by their decisions?

And indeed, if the whiners continue to push the gray areas they should be banned and punished severely incase the rules have to be tightened further.


I guess what I am getting at is that(many)people are getting frustrated by the fact that you can hardly post here anymore w/o fear of stepping on (certain individuals) toes. People are getting frustrated at seeing well known members disappearing because of stupid issues and personal vendettas. Due mostly to others inability to leave well enough alone.

What gives any member the right to be “left alone” by the mods? We are ALL subject to the same rules. When the powers that be realise an individual has been given too much slack, the individual should abide by the enforcement and be thankful they got away with it for so long.

In fact the MODS should be the ones that are left alone. They have proven themselves to the people that are the most important, the ones paying the bills.


Sigs aren't the problem. Certain people and their interpretation of the rules and or their ability/power to enforce them are.

Rubbish. The problem isn’t the “ability/power to enforce” the rules. It’s the whiney children who think they are above the rules and that a privately owned forum is their own personal sandbox to play in as they see fit.

[SlartyBartFast]

AO is of little advantage to TK, Zupe does not seem to use it to his advantage (could be wrong). They are supporting it to be nice to us... lets not push them.

Quoted for truth.

It's their "house", you follow their rules.

Don't like them? You're free to go elsewhere.

Want to test the rules or push the limits? You're only bringing undue attention to yourself and asking to be thrown out.

[White_Noise]

as much as i liked having my sig, i totally agree with this action

i respect, and have gotten alot of useful information from a few of the recently banned people, however i agree with the moderators' decisions, and think that people should have just let a few issues go.

there are a few people on AO right now that need to grow up, and just let things go.

[Magaman]

Like, Bummmer Duuuude!!!

Hiya Tom... (Big Wave) :)

[Lohman446]

as much as i liked having my sig, i totally agree with this action

i respect, and have gotten alot of useful information from a few of the recently banned people, however i agree with the moderators' decisions, and think that people should have just let a few issues go.

there are a few people on AO right now that need to grow up, and just let things go.

Well summarized.

[GT]

avatars would be nice..... I dont see them as a policing problem seeing how you can set the size limit. Just banzor if its pr0n.

[Chronobreak]

avatars would be nice..... I dont see them as a policing problem seeing how you can set the size limit. Just banzor if its pr0n.

i think they afraid the problems wil be the same

i dont see why they couldnt have set a signature guideline either ....

but as some people ahve said i dont really care THAT MUCH.

i did notice the forums look ALOT cleaner now as well :D

[shartley]

LOL This is too funny and borderline sad. It looks as if some people think the only problem is the “membership”. It looks like some people think that the only ones who need to do some self reflecting and how they may be irritating people is the “membership”. LOL

While I agree with SBF that this is a private forum and we don’t have anything to say about things, that is NOT how it has been done in the past. However, it is now perfectly clear that the responsibility for problems on this forum as well as anything that gets done is all a one way street where the membership will be the default group in the wrong on ANY issue.

The simple truth to the matter is that in these latest rounds of problems, the fault was NOT on one side. There were things done wrong by certain staff members AND certain members. This however seems to be lost on Tom and others. And while I fully understand just wanting problems to go away, sometimes if you don’t address the REASONS for those problems, they will keep coming back.

But it looks as though AO has finally become a place where the membership has no say in what happens here, nor can speak when they see moderators/admin doing things they should not do. WOW. Can you imagine how it would be if the real world worked like that?

Yes, it is true, if folks don’t like how AO is being run they can choose to leave. And I predict that if things continue as they have been lately, as well as them being run in the manner Tom just made it clear he wants it run, AO may indeed find itself lacking any true quality members. And I just don’t see how that will help AGD one bit. But hey, it isn’t my dollar being used to run this forum or my company that is being represented here…. I am just speaking as a general member and nothing more.

I think some folks need a serious vacation… on both sides of the fence.

[SCpoloRicker]

stoopid. Sigs being an issue is news to me. Seriously.

["Joe"]

OOOh, that's what happened to my sig. LOL, I thought I messed something up

[Blazestorm]

omg this sucks I ahte ao you all suck suck scuk scukscuskcusck this is stupid theres nothing wrong with sigis tehres only stupidi epopel who are screing this up ocomoene tomecake dont turn off sigs ine eed mine for stuff it represteisnt my identity you all suck i hopw you explode.

hahaha that was fun...

[Muzikman]

omg this sucks I ahte ao you all suck suck scuk scukscuskcusck this is stupid theres nothing wrong with sigis tehres only stupidi epopel who are screing this up ocomoene tomecake dont turn off sigs ine eed mine for stuff it represteisnt my identity you all suck i hopw you explode.

hahaha that was fun...


Did you mash the keyboard when typing that?

[punkncat]

Grow up, and welcome to the real world.
Yes there is. This is a forum that is privately owned and run. The oversight and “balance” is provided by the owner(s).
So, be civil and mature. Question the ruling/judgement respectfully and then abide by the explaination.
Welcome to real life. Imagine getting pulled over for speeding and saying: “Officer. HOW DARE YOU GIVE ME A SPEEDING TICKET! Come ON! Look at all the other guys speeding fast. Some of you guys are just real jerks who don’t know what you’re doing...”
Think that would get you off a speeding fine? No, you’d get an escalation of the charges.
Are you complaining about the mods enforcing the rules to the best of their ability or the whiners that won’t abide by their decisions?
And indeed, if the whiners continue to push the gray areas they should be banned and punished severely incase the rules have to be tightened further.
What gives any member the right to be “left alone” by the mods? We are ALL subject to the same rules. When the powers that be realise an individual has been given too much slack, the individual should abide by the enforcement and be thankful they got away with it for so long.
In fact the MODS should be the ones that are left alone. They have proven themselves to the people that are the most important, the ones paying the bills.
Rubbish. The problem isn’t the “ability/power to enforce” the rules. It’s the whiney children who think they are above the rules and that a privately owned forum is their own personal sandbox to play in as they see fit.

I think you are misinterpreting me. I was speaking about members as well as mods...

Never said life was fair, and never tried to explain it off as so. I wasn't trying to be uncivil or immature. I did edit my post (obviously not before you saw it) for content that I felt was appropriate. I don't need a lecture about life and its realities. I have been living it too.....got a Tshirt...lol

I am not trying to say that mods should leave people alone. There is a need for a "governing" body in a forum like this. I do see a problem with some situations being blown out of proportion by both mods and by members. I see mods who are using their power in such a way that brings their decisions into question, as all can. (If you can catch it before its edited, or removed by those powers that be....) In reality a larger portion of the cause for the big discussion in the now closed thread was about this practice, not about Sigs.

Not all things related to a mods job need oversight. But when someone is going to take a perm ban, then maybe more than one person should have the power to decide this. When enough people are bothered by a decision(or decisions) that it causes this much backlash, doesn't it indicate there is a problem that needs to be addressed and fixed? Not just "patched for now"? Shouldn't the people who enforce the rules be held accountable by them, not exempt from them? Shouldn't they be the example by which others are led? And just because we can point out many "bad" examples of this still DOES NOT make it right!

Sig rules are simple stuff. If someone can't follow them, then disallow that user to use a sig. Honestly I could care less in a way, I just hate to see all users "punished" over the actions of a small group of members.

I am not trying to diss on or upset anyone, but I truly see this as a direct result of growing unhappyness within the forum concerning the enforcement of sometimes vague policy and voiced by a specific group of people. And instead of dealing with that, which there is no easy solution for, out of frustration its "screw it, no more sigs"or even worse the practice of just banning those who have the guts to voice their displeasure.

I have had no(or very little) problem with the mods. I keep most of my posts related to paintball, out of controversy, and when or if I am warned about something I simply steer clear. ....but be it small potatoes or not, taking away sigs isn't going to make this problem go away. The people involved in this will find another way to stretch the limits, and what will we lose then?

[Blazestorm]

Did you mash the keyboard when typing that?

No... I just typed as fast as I could without correcting any of my errors.

[RRfireblade]

Shame really...but w/e.

AO looks like the classifieds in the newspaper now. :rolleyes:

Individuallity and personallity are heavily over rated anyway.

I guess I should change my user name to #6033 now. (figure it out ;) )

[Webmaster]

The problem I see is there is a certain ammount of users who like to push the rules, play dumb, and then get pissy when they get called on it. No one likes to Police Sigs - but we have to on occasion to keep this place from looking like a 12 yr old girls LiveJournal.

We dont have a luxury that PBN has - where they dont care what goes on - as long as they get eyeballs for thier sponsers. They more hits the better. I suppose the upside of this is you can act like an idiot and not get called on it.

So anway to the 98% of you playing by the rules and making our lives easy - thanks!

[Magaman]

No one likes to Police Sigs - but we have to on occasion to keep this place from looking like a 12 yr old girls LiveJournal.

Doh, I thought I was in the wrong place, I should have figured that when I saw all of these shiny Guns... :p

[Jack & Coke]

The problem I see is there is a certain ammount of users who like to push the rules, play dumb, and then get pissy when they get called on it.



Why not just ding them? :tard:

[alooney11]

It was about time

[ScatterPlot]

Now I'm just gonna have to start copy-pasting my sig into every post I make :D

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Although I do not mind the turning off of sigs, there could have been a better solution. Such as no images, only text, similar to Pbn. However, I am not sure you can do something like that with this forum.

[Duzzy]

For anyone having a problem with the lack of a Feedback link, try to make it your homepage. I have yet to try it so I don't know if it would work, but try and do that and in your for sale thread say, "check out my homepage for my feedback."

[Magaman]

For anyone having a problem with the lack of a Feedback link, try to make it your homepage. I have yet to try it so I don't know if it would work, but try and do that and in your for sale thread say, "check out my homepage for my feedback."

That's a good Idea... ;) :cheers:

[ScatterPlot]

Aww, I just noticed that I cannot edit my sig. It's there, I just can't get to it :(.

[mercury]

I like to come to this forum because, for the most part, the maturity level of the members is higher than any other forum I've participated in. If this helps to keep the maturity level a notch above everywhere else, then I'm all for it. If you can't handle it or don't like it, there are other forums. Just my two cents... :cool:

[maglover728]

Are they off forever or just until this quiet down and people prove that they can behave?

[SlipknotX556]

I loved my sig :( Cryer made it for me :(

Oh well.

[fcpchop]

I too loved my sig, made it myself... but what are you gunna do? I guess it's the our (the members) fault so we have to live with it now.

[teufelhunden]

I don't have the time or the will to read the posts in this thread, but I do have this to say.

Tom, this move is in poor form. You're trying to heal a cut on the knee by putting a bandaid on the elbow. Signatures are far from the focal point of any issue here. You, me, and everybody else knows this. I'm sorry that you're either unwilling or unable to, at the very minimum, attempt to understand the issue, but unfortunately that's your perogative. I'd hate to think that your overlooking, either intentional or uninentional of the root of the issues is going to destroy this internet community, but you pay the bills. It's your mistake to make.

[WARPED1]

Alright, this has become stupid. Have fun on the forum. Sigs was im[portant to me, maybe stupid to others, but something I enjoyed. So, have fun everyone, I'll be leaving you all to bicker over stuff that makes no difference.. Farewell to all.

[Lohman446]

I think Tom is trying to get everyone's attention... the same way I get my kids attention. Does he have it now, can we be good and get along and play nice?

I really don't care if sigs come back, but I have this sick feeling there going to be based on how well we can get along. Besides.. how much bandwidth did we just save?

[shartley]

I think Tom is trying to get everyone's attention... the same way I get my kids attention. Does he have it now, can we be good and get along and play nice?

I really don't care if sigs come back, but I have this sick feeling there going to be based on how well we can get along. Besides.. how much bandwidth did we just save?
But as pointed out time and time and time again…. The real issue is not about signatures. And sorry to say, not allowing signatures will not, nor has, solved the real problems that have been brought up lately. You can’t cure cancer by covering up the symptoms……… And you can’t cure cancer by blaming the patient. The problems on AO are not all caused by the general membership. The true blame goes to both some of the membership AND some of the staff.

And no..... so folks don't think it... I am not posting this out of anger.

[kurama]

Since sigs are often abused or waste bandwith, I see why they were taken out. Still, it is a tool to identify people quicky, and a way to display information easily. In my opinion, Sigs should be re-enabled with image tags off. Either that or put in one of those vB hacks for colored names so that we can atleast identify somebody quickly. A small profile section for feedbacks that shots next to location and all that stuff would be quite helpful also... Well, thats my 2 cents and I bet nobody cares :cool:

[Target Practice]

You can’t cure cancer by covering up the symptoms……… And you can’t cure cancer by blaming the patient.

Oh man, that's sig material right ther--.

Whoops, nevermind.

[Miscue]

Why not just ding them? :tard:

This is the crap people will commonly come up with when they are <B>WRONG</B> and we "ding" them:

<I>The Mods have violated me!!!!

They banned me for no reason!!!!

Why was my sig removed??? Bloody murder! (Even though it clearly breaks the rules)

There was nothing wrong with my sig!! (Even though it clearly breaks the rules)

I don't know why I was banned!!!!

MagBaller12345xyz didn't get banned for the same thing!!!!

The mods are playing favorites!!!!

They are abusing their powers!!!!

They won't say why I was banned!!!! (even though they did, or it's obvious)

They never did this before!!!!

They think they are perfect!!!!

They think they can't make mistakes!!!!

He got banned for less time!!! (Attempting to equate two unequal things as equal - conveniently not mentioning the details).

[20 other members that were IM'd chime in]: Why did you ban him?!?! Unfair!!!! Look at how many disagree with you!!! Ban me too, I dare you!!!!

"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely!" (Or some other cliche that infers corruption, yet there is no mentioning of how one should take responsibility for one's actions)</I>

See... this is where the drama comes in. We ban someone... edit a sig... warn them... then the drama comes.

[Miscue]

But as pointed out time and time and time again…. The real issue is not about signatures. And sorry to say, not allowing signatures will not, nor has, solved the real problems that have been brought up lately. You can’t cure cancer by covering up the symptoms……… And you can’t cure cancer by blaming the patient. The problems on AO are not all caused by the general membership. The true blame goes to both some of the membership AND some of the staff.

And no..... so folks don't think it... I am not posting this out of anger.

Don't have to worry about cancer in your leg, if you cut it off. These sigs are more like an appendix though. Maybe a circumcision?

But you can blame the patient for it... if he keeps sticking his head in the microwave for fun. "Stop sticking your head in the microwave." "No! Bloody murder! Abuse!!! Abuse!!!! I've been violated!!!"

;)

[SIGSays]

i didn't even notice

[68magOwner]

Meh, makes my posts that much harder to find when I am trying to referance myself, but, hell, my posts arnt really usally worth re-reading anyway.

[shartley]

This is the crap people will commonly come up with when they are <B>WRONG</B> and we "ding" them:

<I>The Mods have violated me!!!!

They banned me for no reason!!!!

Why was my sig removed??? Bloody murder! (Even though it clearly breaks the rules)

There was nothing wrong with my sig!! (Even though it clearly breaks the rules)

I don't know why I was banned!!!!

MagBaller12345xyz didn't get banned for the same thing!!!!

The mods are playing favorites!!!!

They are abusing their powers!!!!

They won't say why I was banned!!!! (even though they did, or it's obvious)

They never did this before!!!!

They think they are perfect!!!!

They think they can't make mistakes!!!!

He got banned for less time!!! (Attempting to equate two unequal things as equal - conveniently not mentioning the details).

[20 other members that were IM'd chime in]: Why did you ban him?!?! Unfair!!!! Look at how many disagree with you!!! Ban me too, I dare you!!!!

"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely!" (Or some other cliche that infers corruption, yet there is no mentioning of how one should take responsibility for one's actions)</I>

See... this is where the drama comes in. We ban someone... edit a sig... warn them... then the drama comes.
Again…. That makes it look like the ONLY people who are ever wrong on AO are the membership. ;)

I think he was talking about EVERYONE, not just the membership. When someone is wrong, ding them on it…. Moderators and Admin included.

And when some of that drama is coming FROM Admin or Moderators, and even from them running off to other sites to stir it up more....... come on. :nono: If we are to truly correct problems on AO EVERYONE needs to be honest about things. And this is not being said to cause a problem, but to help solve one.

Don't have to worry about cancer in your leg, if you cut it off. These sigs are more like an appendix though.

But you can blame the patient for it... if he keeps sticking his head in the microwave for fun. "Stop sticking your head in the microwave." "No! Bloody murder! Abuse!!! Abuse!!!! I've been violated!!!"

;)
I was not saying the signatures were the cancer. It was only a symptom of the cancer.

And your post here again makes it look like the membership is the only real problem on AO and the membership is the one that keeps putting its head in the microwave. That would be true though if you are saying the moderators and admin are the thing causing the cancer and AO is the microwave. Don’t come to AO and you will not get cancer. ;)

Seriously though, the moderators don’t deserve all the blame, I was just trying to make a point. But I will also say that to think the moderators deserve NONE of the blame is not only wrong, but shows blinders the size of Texas.

Again, to think the REAL issue is signatures is foolish. But I am getting the feeling that misdirection and finger pointing from on high will obscure the real problems and any attempt to correct them. No biggie though. It will be interesting though to see what AO looks like in the future that is sure to come….

[Aegis]

It will be interesting though to see what AO looks like in the future that is sure to come….

Yes it will, and lets hope that dialogue on issues that we are passionate about will help keep things on track and bring us together rather than tearing us apart.

I think we should kick back and see what happens after this episode, and give it a rest for now.

[tony3]

I don't really care all that much, but I think avatars would be a good alternative. 60x60 pixels, limited to 10,000kb. Set a restriction so you can't even put it up if it doesn't meet them, like PBN and PBR. Just a suggestion.

[AutomagRT1483]

A mass email would have been nice. That way I could have saved my Good Trader List....


Thanks...

[Ceph]

A mass email would have been nice. That way I could have saved my Good Trader List....


Thanks...

It's still there, just not visable anymore



Great Traders: automagfreek, ClassicMagger, Emagster, fire1811, Kevmaster, MrMag, Nicad, oldsoldier, RogueFactor, SpongeBobSquarePantsx2 , SteveDx10+, The Frymarker, Treefall25, Tunamanx3, warpfeedmod

[MonsterMag]

I am kind of glad the sigs are turned off. I recived a 3 day ban for having a sig that was to big. I had a guy who was making sigs, make me one and it was to large and did not meet the requirments of the rules. Anyways I am glad the signatures are turned off. Good choice on turning them off Tom :)

[teufelhunden]

I am kind of glad the sigs are turned off. I recived a 3 day ban for having a sig that was to big. I had a guy who was making sigs, make me one and it was to large and did not meet the requirments of the rules. Anyways I am glad the signatures are turned off. Good choice on turning them off Tom :)


You got banned for your sig because it was too big like 34586 times. I'd know, I personally reported it each time. Your sig would get taken down, and you'd put it back up, without modification.

But hey, that's the Emagballa560 way, right? Screw over everybody else for yourself?

[Miscue]

I am kind of glad the sigs are turned off. I recived a 3 day ban for having a sig that was to big. I had a guy who was making sigs, make me one and it was to large and did not meet the requirments of the rules. Anyways I am glad the signatures are turned off. Good choice on turning them off Tom :)

So why the heck did you use it if you knew it broke the rules? :tard:

[bjjb99]

These sigs are more like an appendix though. Maybe a circumcision?

Calamari, anyone? :P

BJJB -- "Turn off every 'sig'... for great justice." ;)

[Alpha]

I wish we could at least have 1 line of text, but what tom says goes.

I'm sure this will eliminate all of the drama thas been going on.

:clap:

[teufelhunden]

I'm sure this will eliminate all of the drama thas been going on.

:clap:

And that is where you and Kaye are wrong. The ONLY reason the sig thing became an issue was because of prior issues. Disabling sigs just moves the argument to another facet.

I hope you don't run your company like this, Tom, or you're going bottom up faster than you think.

[SCpoloRicker]

I am kind of glad the sigs are turned off. I recived a 3 day ban for having a sig that was to big. I had a guy who was making sigs, make me one and it was to large and did not meet the requirments of the rules. Anyways I am glad the signatures are turned off. Good choice on turning them off Tom :)

sigh. How many times have yo-- oh, forget it.

To re-iterate what Shartley, TP, CM and others have said: Sigs were not, IMO, the root cause of recent problems on the boards.

[bornl33t]

can some one help me with toms e-mail? I would like to send him something that's un-related to this

[Webmaster]

The problem I see is that some people want to cause trouble. As miscue pointed out - EVERYTIME any of us do something we get met with a load of immaturity and crybaby antics. We get THREATS. We get cursed at. Its just not cool And I only get a smidge of what the other mods get as they are more prolific.

The problem isnt Sigs, as others pointed out. It is certain people. And theses people forget AO doesnt belong to them. They want to strongarm their opinions onto others. They want to help decide who goes and who stays. Well it doesnt work like that. This is a public forum - but it is REGULATED. We are the regulators.

If I were to bet, I would say Sigs might come back in a few months. Even if in just Text form. But I suppose that will depend on several other things happening.

Part of the great thing about AO and WHY its grown is its community like astmosphere. There are regulars and people known for certain things. There is enough of a base that when there is a big event AOers can congregate. But - just like any group - we now have little cliches. Groups of "Jets" and "Sharks" who dont like eachother and have thier own little slap fest here. If people could just learn to ignore those who bug them - this wouldnt be such a dramatic place at time.

[TheTramp]

Text only with a limited nuber of characters is the way to go IMHO. I hope that this is the what happens be it soon or in a few months.

[shartley]

I have begun to not even care about this issue anymore; it has fallen on deaf ears and blind eyes. But I will say one more thing and then no more on the matter….

The problem I see is that some people want to cause trouble. As miscue pointed out - EVERYTIME any of us do something we get met with a load of immaturity and crybaby antics. We get THREATS. We get cursed at. Its just not cool And I only get a smidge of what the other mods get as they are more prolific.

The problem isnt Sigs, as others pointed out. It is certain people. And theses people forget AO doesnt belong to them. They want to strongarm their opinions onto others. They want to help decide who goes and who stays. Well it doesnt work like that. This is a public forum - but it is REGULATED. We are the regulators.

If I were to bet, I would say Sigs might come back in a few months. Even if in just Text form. But I suppose that will depend on several other things happening.

Part of the great thing about AO and WHY its grown is its community like astmosphere. There are regulars and people known for certain things. There is enough of a base that when there is a big event AOers can congregate. But - just like any group - we now have little cliches. Groups of "Jets" and "Sharks" who dont like eachother and have thier own little slap fest here. If people could just learn to ignore those who bug them - this wouldnt be such a dramatic place at time.
I would AGREE with you on this if it was not for the fact that if you look, even those who normally are from different “camps” agree that the problem is NOT just one about the “members” being wrong. And we have all seen moderators/admin do selective enforcement of rules, insult and demean members when enforcing rules, pushing issues and walking around the forums with puffed chests, and much more.

This is NOT saying that what you wrote is not partially correct, but it is not the whole story. And you are correct, many members HAVE caused problems and that seems to be their intent (here and elsewhere) and not simply to cause conversation or provoke thought. You are right. But to act like the only problems on AO have been caused by the membership does a gross injustice to AO and the truth of what has happened here lately. And to act like the moderators have been victimized while being saintly in their duties is preposterous.

When the site staff begin to realize that they are not infallible, and that they (some of them) have caused some of the problems (or at a minimum greatly fanned them) THAT is when AO will get back to being a reputable forum. Until then….. I guess it just depends on how you look at things. And I can tell you how the rest of the internet community see it…… it isn’t looking good, and hasn’t for a while.

I truly hope AO can get over this, but until everyone involved takes an honest look at the actions of others as well as themselves and stops playing the “us against them” game, I don’t see things getting better until they get MUCH worse.

[TheTramp]

I have begun to not even care about this issue anymore; it has fallen on deaf ears and blind eyes.


That's a lot of post then.

[bornl33t]

I don't care about sigs either. But lets face it favoritism is rampant latly. Ppl get away with stuff that should NO WAY NO HOW be alowed on a PG forum. I will ban my kids from ever visiting AO.

[dave p]

hey toasterstreudel and warped one:

who are you chumps? neither one of you own or run this place. AGD existed before you came here and likely will after you leave. what exactly are your contributions, and what makes you feel you influence anyone? . thank god for the ignore list, far more useful than sigs. the more morons like you two i add to that list, the better my experience here is.

later dudes.

[FallNAngel]

But you can blame the patient for it... if he keeps sticking his head in the microwave for fun. "Stop sticking your head in the microwave." "No! Bloody murder! Abuse!!! Abuse!!!! I've been violated!!!"

Heh, I read this and thought "Help, help! I'm being repressed! Now you see the violence inherent in the system!" </monty python>

Anyway, having been a mod (super mod actually) before, I can see both sides of the arguement. It's easy for mods to get ticked having to deal with the same thing over and over again ("This sig *still* doesn't follow the rules... again") and rarely get praise from a good call. Basically they get almost all of the blame and zero praise for their work. However, there are other times when the mods *ARE* to blame... sometimes it's just misunderstanding what someone said and taking the right course of action based on bad information.

It's rather hard to keep track of many users and keep everyone in check, so when someone slips through, everyone is quick to point out how *they* didn't get in trouble, but someone else did. I think mods should own up when something *does* go wrong, admit it and rectify the situation and users need to start taking responsibility for their own actions.

[peewee]

Cool!!! Not to stir the bucket but I don't really see the need for big o pictures etc. I am blissfully ignorant of most of the drama around here being fairly new. I ghosted the site off & on for a couple years mainly as a resource for info on the mag. I did notice everyone here had an "Us against the world" outlook on paintball at one time. That was when a vast majority had mags. It seems like the water is muddy now. :argh:

[bornl33t]

But you can blame the patient for it... if he keeps sticking his head in the microwave for fun. "Stop sticking your head in the microwave." "No! Bloody murder! Abuse!!! Abuse!!!! I've been violated!!!"

;)

Ok, but how does a user follow the rules when mods can't? Talk about conveniantly leaving out the details.


It has very little to do with what I want. It has more to do with people getting off this one subject. Do you under stand ho wmany god damn rules that kid broke ? It has been repeted several times over and over. He had multible ban evasions, Sig Abuse issues and in general was behaving like an asshat.

Sig abuse? How about "serving AGD" and "penis" is the same sig? Wow what a way to represent AGD.


Serving AGD customers since 93, wishing I could beat some common sence into some of them about 5 hrs later.

(cphilip) Cool I am screwing the hellout of it and its getting better!
(Army) I gots boobs! well, little tiny ones, but gosh are they firm!
(TNS2k2) yeah, my ARM really got pummeled
(TNS2k2) I just took it.
(Crazy) Curly
(Crazy) i'd do it with you.

(Miscue) I should have studied genetics and figured out how to take the witch gene out of hoes.
(BlackVCG) Not possible.

(Mister44): dude
(Mister44): SCREW YOU
(Rob_AGD):
(Mister44): i offered to suck his penis

Oh, that's right! It's legal.... wait or is it?


My sig does not break ANY rules. It maybe in poor taste, it may not be Black and white good or bad but I put it there for a reason.

I would assume that mods should be straight white or? Being in leadership and all? And while we're on the topic, how many mods can be contacted to give a "reason" for something a mod disaproves of? I think that webby and two mods have a contact E-mail listed?

The users aren't inocent, but let him with no sin through the first stone.
TIm

[MarkM]

I would assume that mods should be straight white or? Being in leadership and all? And while we're on the topic, how many mods can be contacted to give a "reason" for something a mod disaproves of? I think that webby and two mods have a contact E-mail listed?
TIm

All 6 of the Mods listed for this and the other forums all have the email facility enabled on all of their profiles..the Meet the Moderators doesn't (I am not on there at all, though I will be talking with Webby to get that changed but it isn't high on his prioritys and nor should it be) but that is part of the site and as users ourselves we all have our Emails enabled as well as PM's switched on.

It is little digs like this that build into bigger things, one of the recently banned (if you agree with that or not) still couldn't let it lie and opened his next post with "First post from ban" Now this isn't searching to victimise a user (I haven't banned/eddited or even commented in the thread since it would become a threadjack here however it is on topic, just about) I simply read the thread and it was there for all to see and when I went to read the thread his post was not the most recent so I had no idea he had even taken part in the thread.

People have complained about the PSP new rules as being too confusing...myself included on that subject, on AO we have what should be an easier to understand set of rules.
Guideline is the same as a Rule regardless of the people who try and push and shove those words around. The signatures may not be the main cause of things however they are one of the highest issues so removing them makes sense, as it is obvious that currently some people cannot follow the rules for their use and when they fall foul of these rules complain about that and anything else they feel will stir things up.
It is Tom's ball and he can take it home anytime he wants.

[bornl33t]

All 6 of the Mods listed for this and the other forums all have the email facility enabled on all of their profiles..the Meet the Moderators doesn't (I am not on there at all, though I will be talking with Webby to get that changed but it isn't high on his prioritys and nor should it be) but that is part of the site and as users ourselves we all have our Emails enabled as well as PM's switched on.

It is little digs like this that build into bigger things, one of the recently banned (if you agree with that or not) still couldn't let it lie and opened his next post with "First post from ban" Now this isn't searching to victimise a user (I haven't banned/eddited or even commented in the thread since it would become a threadjack here however it is on topic, just about) I simply read the thread and it was there for all to see and when I went to read the thread his post was not the most recent so I had no idea he had even taken part in the thread.

People have complained about the PSP new rules as being too confusing...myself included on that subject, on AO we have what should be an easier to understand set of rules.
Guideline is the same as a Rule regardless of the people who try and push and shove those words around. The signatures may not be the main cause of things however they are one of the highest issues so removing them makes sense, as it is obvious that currently some people cannot follow the rules for their use and when they fall foul of these rules complain about that and anything else they feel will stir things up.
It is Tom's ball and he can take it home anytime he wants.

Yeah, I realize that the e-mails are in the profiles, unfortunatly when your banned you don't have access to those.

[slade]

ive got an idea, how bout we are allowed to have sigs, and the first time your sig disobeys any rule, it is removed for a week and you get a warning to have it fixed. the second time, you lose the ability to have a sig forever.

[Lohman446]

ive got an idea, how bout we are allowed to have sigs, and the first time your sig disobeys any rule, it is removed for a week and you get a warning to have it fixed. the second time, you lose the ability to have a sig forever.

That requires work and action on the mods, and that results in whining. The new solution has solved the problems of sigs entirely ;)

Be good, get along, quit whining to TK (not you, not singling out anyone) and maybe just maybe we will get them back some day

[AGD-OfficeGal]

Originally posted by Lohman446:
Be good, get along, quit whining to TK (not you, not singling out anyone) and maybe just maybe we will get them back some day

That's just what I said about 30 posts back and was completely ignored. Hope they listen to you!

Dragon Lady

[slade]

That requires work and action on the mods, and that results in whining. The new solution has solved the problems of sigs entirely ;)

Be good, get along, quit whining to TK (not you, not singling out anyone) and maybe just maybe we will get them back some day
hey, im just trying to come up with a solution. the only problem with my proposed idea is that someone has to write the code. and getting arid of sigs doesnt solve the problem, it just makes it so that mods dont have to deal with it.

[Lohman446]

hey, im just trying to come up with a solution. the only problem with my proposed idea is that someone has to write the code. and getting arid of sigs doesnt solve the problem, it just makes it so that mods dont have to deal with it.

It gets rid of any sig issue... might not get back to the base cause of it, but it may get everyones attention, and when you look at TKs first post, maybe just maybe get peoples attention before AO becomes a nuisance to him.

[REDRT]

I a related subject. The whole sig thing got many people in an uproar and then some got banned. Some for as much as 30 days. I now see they are back. It hasn't been 30 days. I don't get the whole thing of bans, sigs, and whatever. I think it is all a sham. The mods make a decision it should be carried out. What is the deal?

[1stdeadeye]

Maybe a circumcision?

:wow: :spit_take

[-=Squid=-]

I a related subject. The whole sig thing got many people in an uproar and then some got banned. Some for as much as 30 days. I now see they are back. It hasn't been 30 days. I don't get the whole thing of bans, sigs, and whatever. I think it is all a sham. The mods make a decision it should be carried out. What is the deal?
Not if it's a bad decision.

[Glickman]

bye bye cute doggy sig



cant... find.. sig.... url... now...

going... to.... cry.....

:cry: :cry: :cry:

[Glickman]

hehe i found it. if you need to save ur sig, click ur name, itll still show it incase you dont have the url saved anywhere else


one last time for 'ol time sake

http://img70.exs.cx/img70/6204/untitled297.jpg

[AO Moderation Team]

I a related subject. The whole sig thing got many people in an uproar and then some got banned. Some for as much as 30 days. I now see they are back. It hasn't been 30 days. I don't get the whole thing of bans, sigs, and whatever. I think it is all a sham. The mods make a decision it should be carried out. What is the deal?

There is more to it than what you all know, which you do not need to know.

Debates with the moderators usually work out like this: The whiners and sometimes troublemakers are the ones with the issues. The silent majority stays silent, and does not care. nor responds because they don't have issues with how things are done. If you've ever seen PETA, they make a lot of noise and have naked people to try to gain attention. But nobody else really cares. In the absence of the silent majority's opinion, the opinions of the whiners become an extremely exaggerated representation of what the whole feels.

With this in mind, you're not going to get anywhere arguing with us. You're not going to win either. If you are concerned with our judgment: We review each others actions, and this includes Tom Kaye's involvement when necessary. We have an assortment of personalities with different opinions, and we disagree on things all the time. You just don't get to see it.

Understand that you don't always get to see all of the information, and you're not going to always know why we take a particular action. Sometimes it will seem unfair, or not make sense. But take faith that we are doing our due diligence. And if you don't have faith in that, take faith that you are a captive audience.

[Glickman]

There is more to it than what you all know, which you do not need to know.

Debates with the moderators usually work out like this: The whiners and sometimes troublemakers are the ones with the issues. The silent majority stays silent, and does not care. nor responds because they don't have issues with how things are done. If you've ever seen PETA, they make a lot of noise and have naked people to try to gain attention. But nobody else really cares. In the absence of the silent majority's opinion, the opinions of the whiners become an extremely exaggerated representation of what the whole feels.



i totally respect what your saying, but, we've spent countless hours enjoying discussions, debates (atleast back when they were intellectual and allowed :rolleyes: )and so on. We're just curious because we care alot for this forum.

If we just kept quiet and didnt bother even asking, how would we be any better then the silent majority?


honestly, ive seen this attitude before. those who've played counter strike for extended periods can vouch. its like a newbie admins, they always pretend that they're at a higher pier then the players, untill they wise up and find out they are just playing a game.

im not saying you guys are inexperianced in any way, and give you guys credit for dealing with us, which must seem impossible at times, im just saying i dont personally like this condesending atitude ive seen with just one or two mods. but hey, i guess im not in any position to object, being another face in the "silent majority"


admin_ban Glickman 0 ;)

[Target Practice]

There is more to it than what you all know, which you do not need to know.

Story of the Forums, innit? Okay, I'll buy that. Sure, there's things that the average user is not allowed to see. But what about the things we are supposed to see, but don't?

Also, Why the AO Mod post? What is the harm in seeing which mod posted? Hearing something from some of the mods is easier to take for truth than some of the others.

[AO Moderation Team]

i totally respect what your saying, but, we've spent countless hours enjoying discussions, debates (atleast back when they were intellectual and allowed :rolleyes: )and so on. We're just curious because we care alot for this forum.

If we just kept quiet and didnt bother even asking, how would we be any better then the silent majority?


honestly, ive seen this attitude before. those who've played counter strike for extended periods can vouch. its like a newbie admins, they always pretend that they're at a higher pier then the players, untill they wise up and find out they are just playing a game.

im not saying you guys are inexperianced in any way, and give you guys credit for dealing with us, which must seem impossible at times, im just saying i dont personally like this condesending atitude ive seen with just one or two mods. but hey, i guess im not in any position to object, being another face in the "silent majority"


admin_ban Glickman 0 ;)

Well I said that, fully cognisant of what you're talking about. You have to agree that what I said has a degree of validity. I also agree that what you've said has a degree of validity. I have to ask the question: Do I have confidence in our moderation team - and its ability to self-regulate. Yes I do. Do I think the team is capable of mistakes - yes, we have. But here's the thing: the mistakes usually get resolved.

Admittedly, my commentary was trolling for a response. It was slightly inflammatory on purpose. Get the blood flowing, get the brains churning, and the thoughts spewing.

I don't think those debates should go away, so long as within the rules. They're good to have when constructive.

[AO Moderation Team]

Also, Why the AO Mod post? What is the harm in seeing which mod posted? Hearing something from some of the mods is easier to take for truth than some of the others.

It would color the responses. I might let you know later.

[Mighty Mike]

Maybe the AO Moderation Team is actually Tom Kaye?? :ninja: Maybe Tom Kaye is not the nice loveable guy he portrays himself to be??:wow: Maybe i should just shut up. :)

[AO Moderation Team]

Maybe the AO Moderation Team is actually Tom Kaye?? :ninja: Maybe Tom Kaye is not the nice loveable guy he portrays himself to be??:wow: Maybe i should just shut up. :)

No, definitely not. He has more important things to do. :D

He doesn't pretend to be that way - that's just Tom.

[MonsterMag]

So why the heck did you use it if you knew it broke the rules? :tard:

Because Maxfloschocker was sapose to fix it for me and he meesed up. I f you find the thread in dealers forum, you sill see what I am talking about.

[Aegis]

The "AO Moderation Team" has made one of the most arrogant, insulting statements I have read in quite a while. I think it is worth taking a few moments to break this down:


There is more to it than what you all know, which you do not need to know.

Debates with the moderators usually work out like this: The whiners and sometimes troublemakers are the ones with the issues. The silent majority stays silent, and does not care. nor responds because they don't have issues with how things are done.

}Apparently, if you have an issue you are a whiner or a troublemaker.

If you've ever seen PETA, they make a lot of noise and have naked people to try to gain attention. But nobody else really cares. In the absence of the silent majority's opinion, the opinions of the whiners become an extremely exaggerated representation of what the whole feels.

]It gets better. Now anyone debating (or questioning, I suppose) the moderators is equated with PETA. You know, the silly naked people.

With this in mind, you're not going to get anywhere arguing with us. You're not going to win either. If you are concerned with our judgment: We review each others actions, and this includes Tom Kaye's involvement when necessary. We have an assortment of personalities with different opinions, and we disagree on things all the time. You just don't get to see it.

Understand that you don't always get to see all of the information, and you're not going to always know why we take a particular action. Sometimes it will seem unfair, or not make sense. But take faith that we are doing our due diligence. And if you don't have faith in that, take faith that you are a captive audience.

So, if I understand this correctly, you are either a whining, noisy, naked person or you don't care.

That post is followed by this:

"Admittedly, my commentary was trolling for a response. It was slightly inflammatory on purpose. Get the blood flowing, get the brains churning, and the thoughts spewing.

I don't think those debates should go away, so long as within the rules. They're good to have when constructive."

There are many ways to get a discussion going without demeaning well intentioned people that are trying to the same thing.

[Aegis]

In the interest of trolling for a response, this post will be slightly inflammatory on purpose. you know, it gets the blood flowing, get the brains churning, and the thoughts spewing.


The problem I see is that some people want to cause trouble. As miscue pointed out - EVERYTIME any of us do something we get met with a load of immaturity and crybaby antics. We get THREATS. We get cursed at. Its just not cool And I only get a smidge of what the other mods get as they are more prolific.

]Never say ever. Or every. Kind of puts you on the spot, unless you really mean that. How many spam bans, porn bans, etc.. do you get a challenge on from the AO community? I fully support the majority of the bans that have occured.

The problem isnt Sigs, as others pointed out. It is certain people. And theses people forget AO doesnt belong to them. They want to strongarm their opinions onto others. They want to help decide who goes and who stays. Well it doesnt work like that. This is a public forum - but it is REGULATED. We are the regulators.

]Kind of like Marlon Brando in The Missouri Breaks.

If I were to bet, I would say Sigs might come back in a few months. Even if in just Text form. But I suppose that will depend on several other things happening.

]Like what ,for example? If you aim at nothing, you are sure to hit it. Give us a target.

Part of the great thing about AO and WHY its grown is its community like astmosphere. There are regulars and people known for certain things. There is enough of a base that when there is a big event AOers can congregate. But - just like any group - we now have little cliches. Groups of "Jets" and "Sharks" who dont like eachother and have thier own little slap fest here. If people could just learn to ignore those who bug them - this wouldnt be such a dramatic place at time.

First of all, it is "Clique". Webster defines it as a group that is held together by common interests, views, or purpose. So if people agree with each other they must be "jets or sharks"? I'm really not clear on what this is about - are there some internecine fueds going on that only you are aware of?

[Glickman]

The "AO Moderation Team" has made one of the most arrogant, insulting statements I have read in quite a while. I think it is worth taking a few moments to break this down:
So, if I understand this correctly, you are either a whining, noisy, naked person or you don't care.
That post is followed by this:
"Admittedly, my commentary was trolling for a response. It was slightly inflammatory on purpose. Get the blood flowing, get the brains churning, and the thoughts spewing.
I don't think those debates should go away, so long as within the rules. They're good to have when constructive."
There are many ways to get a discussion going without demeaning well intentioned people that are trying to the same thing.

well i was a little annoyed by some his responses, but not so such a degree.

what got me annoyed is "It would color the responses. I might let you know later."

honestly, my biggest pet peeve is people being condensending. this is not only condensending, but teasing.


that and you are provoking "colorful" discussions, which would obviously lead to problems.


so..... why would you want to do that?


or do you get a comission on bans ;)

[AO Moderation Team]

The "AO Moderation Team" has made one of the most arrogant, insulting statements I have read in quite a while. I think it is worth taking a few moments to break this down:



So, if I understand this correctly, you are either a whining, noisy, naked person or you don't care.

That post is followed by this:

"Admittedly, my commentary was trolling for a response. It was slightly inflammatory on purpose. Get the blood flowing, get the brains churning, and the thoughts spewing.

I don't think those debates should go away, so long as within the rules. They're good to have when constructive."

There are many ways to get a discussion going without demeaning well intentioned people that are trying to the same thing.

Incorrect assessment. Notice that I qualified my statement with "usually," which does not rule out those who have legitimate issues that they would like to voice. I don't know if this is a matter of being a selective reader, or a self-confidence issue where you do not know where you stand. If you know you are not part of the crowd that I was mentioning, then I was not referring to you, and you are not part of the problem. And if you are part of the problem, then you can only make my argument stronger with your responses.

I beg to differ with the complaints on my approach. Just look at all the thoughtful responses that come of it. I stirred the pot just a little, to get your minds brewing. You have to wonder - are the statements serious, or are they a device? Don't confuse the bark for the bite. This bark makes you carefully analyze everything that's said - because you're looking for something that's incorrect since you want to throw it back into this person's face. You wouldn't think about it so much otherwise.

I believe I was very confident, which can get confused with arrogance. Arrogance is reckless, a high degree of confidence is not. Also, arrogance and incorrectness are mutually exclusive.

[1stdeadeye]

In before the lock!!!

;) :ninja:

[Steelrat]

ar·ro·gant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-gnt)
adj.
Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.
Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others

[AO Moderation Team]

This has been an interesting experiment, and what I've been trying to show:

Complaint #1, digresses into Complaint #2, which digresses into Complaint #3, and so forth. The one thing that does not happen is -> going back to Complaint #1 or subsequent complaints, sticking with it, and trying to reach a resolution. You're so busy and eager to latch on to the next complaint that the previous ones are left unresolved. This puts your sincerity and seriousness into question.

I dare you to look at the original problems and attempt to move towards resolution.

[Duzzy]

Personally I am not aware of what Complaints 1, 2, and 3 are because I didn't read the entire post. However, I think that people should look at these statements and think about them. Not comment, not argue, just think and try to understand.


Bringing someone’s faults or perceived faults out for public display is an attack on that person whether intended or not.

There are two kinds of people in this world, those who seek satisfaction, and those who seek understanding. Don’t be one of the first kind.

You do not know what someone is saying unless you understand it. Any confusion at all means you do not understand what that person is saying. Try to, it never hurts to ask for clarification.

Some institutions are meant to support an individual, others an individual’s values. Do not confuse the two.

[SCpoloRicker]

Aegis: probably pushing. just .02

AO Mod Team: def pushing. just .02

/summon anti-godwin in 5. 4. 3....

[Glickman]

Bringing someone’s faults or perceived faults out for public display is an attack on that person whether intended or not.

yet, as AO Mod Team nicely put it, everyone is human. how else to better ourselves and each other then to critique?

yes, i believe it can be aimed as a personal attack, but it can also just be aimed at helping, i.e "Hey, you should turn that hopper around so its easier to fill in a game."

No personal attack intended, just helping. So i wouldnt nessissarily say that bringing someones faults to light is a personal attack, i would say its always a personal attack if that person is a perfectionist; arrogent to them not being perfect.

[Duzzy]

yet, as AO Mod Team nicely put it, everyone is human. how else to better ourselves and each other then to critique?

yes, i believe it can be aimed as a personal attack, but it can also just be aimed at helping, i.e "Hey, you should turn that hopper around so its easier to fill in a game."

No personal attack intended, just helping. So i wouldnt nessissarily say that bringing someones faults to light is a personal attack, i would say its always a personal attack if that person is a perfectionist; arrogent to them not being perfect.

Yet when you tell someone their hopper is backwards will they not feel stupid? And that can be taken as an attack on their intelligence.

But I think you are confusing the issue, there is a huge difference between someone being corrected of their ignorance in front of everyone, and someone being told that they are wrong in front of everyone.

I think people (I know I do) greatly appreciate it if you talk to them personally (and try to fix things) before attempting to publicly point out how wrong they are. While a person may not react as though it is an attack, a highly doubt you will find anyone who will not take it as an attack at some level.

[Blennidae]

I dare you to look at the original problems and attempt to move towards resolution.

Were you not present for one of the reasons behind this thread in the first place? There is still an "original" problem. Questions were asked, as there was not resolution.

Is it fair that the Moderation team can make inflammatory posts to "Get the blood flowing, get the brains churning, and the thoughts spewing", but if a regular member does the same, they run the risk of being banned?

If a member tries your experiment and it happens to hit close to home for the mods, what happens then?

[Aegis]

This has been an interesting experiment, and what I've been trying to show:

Complaint #1, digresses into Complaint #2, which digresses into Complaint #3, and so forth. The one thing that does not happen is -> going back to Complaint #1 or subsequent complaints, sticking with it, and trying to reach a resolution. You're so busy and eager to latch on to the next complaint that the previous ones are left unresolved. This puts your sincerity and seriousness into question.

I dare you to look at the original problems and attempt to move towards resolution.

Why don't you do us all a favor and identify what those problems are, then we can do so.

My only problem in this thread has been with your condescending attitude towards the members of this forum.

[Glickman]

My only problem in this thread has been with your condescending attitude towards the members of this forum.


ditto. that and "teasing".

this is just a forum. sure its a cool place to find info and shoot the breeze, but its nothing we cant live without.


-------------------------------------


Yet when you tell someone their hopper is backwards will they not feel stupid? And that can be taken as an attack on their intelligence.

so what, just not tell them? honestly i dont know how that would help at all. its a suggestion, based really on political correctness, but hey, noone ever said you had to keep it a certain way.



I think people (I know I do) greatly appreciate it if you talk to them personally (and try to fix things) before attempting to publicly point out how wrong they are. While a person may not react as though it is an attack, a highly doubt you will find anyone who will not take it as an attack at some level

if your not open to critique, and view it as an attack, then that person is ignorant (atleast in my definition of the word)

life isnt all fuzzy and accomidating, just go with the flow and fix it next time, those not open to change wont get anywhere.

[shartley]

I know I said I would not post on the matters originally discussed in this thread, but we have moved on to the issue of “critiquing” and pointing out when someone is wrong.

If folks have not noticed, that only goes ONE way on AO.

It seems that once someone becomes a Moderator on AO, they suddenly make no mistakes and have no reason for being critiqued. And if you try, YOU are the one who is wrong. Does that transfer if you were a “temp”Moderator on AO? If so I guess I am covered! WooHoo! ;)

But on the subject of “critiquing”, I personally do not think it is any more the job of a Moderator to critique a member than it is any other Member’s job. A moderator’s job is not to “point out” when people are wrong and critique them on it. Their job is to correct the problem. And that can be done with a simple correction and a PM to the individual letting them know about it.

If you openly critique a member, you had better be prepared for open responses to that critique (by that member or any others) because the critique is open for the world to see. The difference between that and telling someone they might want to turn their hopper around is that you can do that in relative privacy (even when in a VERY public place), but when you post something on AO, it is nowhere close to being private. The entire world can read it, and usually a great deal of the membership DOES.

Yes, everyone makes mistakes. But that includes moderators and admin. And if you are going to allow “pointing out when someone is wrong” and “critiques” to be made openly on the forum, that should include for the site staff as well. If not, those who said AO was being run by Nazis were not that far off…. No matter how much I hate that comparison.

Their MUST be a clearly understood method for addressing grievances. And it must be made known that EVERY grievance will not be brushed off as if the member is simply crying about something. Sure, I admit that MUCH of what gets complained about is petty and even the fault of the member themselves, but not ALL is. And that seems to get lost on AO.

Does AO want to be a healthy forum? If so some things really should be looked at honestly (as I have said before) by all people; members, staff, and owner. I wish everyone luck…

[1stdeadeye]

For pete's sake, it was a signature image on an internet forum. It is not life and death. It does not deserve 5 pages of discussion. Move on!!!!! :argh:

[Glickman]

For pete's sake, it was a signature image on an internet forum. It is not life and death. It does not deserve 5 pages of discussion. Move on!!!!! :argh:

heh well read the last 2 pages, were not really discussing the sigs anymore specifically. :D

[1stdeadeye]

heh well read the last 2 pages, were not really discussing the sigs anymore specifically. :D


I know that. Again this is the internet. Don't like it here, go elsewhere. Anyone holding a gun to anyone's head to hold them here? :confused:

Do I agree with the mods? Sometimes I do, sometimes I do not. How is that different from real life?

When they make stupid or inane decisions, it is all about mind over matter. This is the internet. I don't mind, so they don't matter! If AO is anyone's life then they have no life!!!

Again move on. Back to the fun. Let's all bash CollegeBoy again!!! Maybe the mods can invite him back for sport!!!! ;)

[SCpoloRicker]

Let's all bash CollegeBoy again!!!


YYaaaarrrggghhhh!!!!! ;)

[Muzikman]

So the big question...

it's been almost a week since the sigs have been turned off. Who honestly misses them?

Not I.

[Chronobreak]

So the big question...

it's been almost a week since the sigs have been turned off. Who honestly misses them?

Not I.


i KINDA do...

it was nice being able to see contact info and websites etc EASILY...but clicking on their name is just another step..i know..

BUT im not gonna click on EVERY name to see if they have soemthing worthwhile in their sig...

btw..i cant believe people are still replying here...msot of us replied and then said fine..w/e and dealt with it...

[alooney11]

Man i cannot believe people are still talking about this.

[hitech]

So the big question...

it's been almost a week since the sigs have been turned off. Who honestly misses them?

Not I.

Me. :(

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

yeah me too... the forums just seem alot more dull and lifeless now, no personality. but also no more post asking people if there sigs look good or mods complaining about sigs not being compliant.

so, its kidna good kinda bad. ill live with it either way.

[FallNAngel]

It's been almost a week since the sigs have been turned off. Who honestly misses them?

Not I.

I do. It's not the sigs so much, as the feeling that I had when they were around. This forum used to be laid back and felt more of a place to just go and chat about paintball. For the most part, very few flames and very few problems. Now that sigs are gone, it kinda feels like we're constantly being watched over and more or less walking on egg shells. I do agree with what the membership is saying about responding to moderators / admins. From what (admitedly little) I've seen, there seems to be a "the mod is always right and how dare you question us" attitude. Does complaint #1 cause complaint #2, etc without complaint #1 ever being dealt with? Yeah... can you really expect it to be otherwise? Solutions to issues are presented and sometimes just ignored or dragged around before being put into place...which causes other complaints.

How does making a controversial arguement to see if people get stirred up about it, then blaming us for when we do, solve anything? It does nothing but create things you don't want to happen.

[punkncat]

I miss the sigs.

Without them this forum looks just like the many others using this template. And may as well be those forums in that there is no life or personality to the pages anymore. Not to mean it has interfered with the posts themselves, it just made the page seem more "black and white".

Know what I mean?

[C_lawgik]

oh well

[JAM]

well maybe we can now focus on content rather than flash...

I don't know, but it's not the end of the world. life will go on w/o sigs. can't we just go back to complaining about SP?

:)


-J

[dre1919]

AO,

Since we are having so much drama over the sig rules and much of it is now falling out on me I have decided to just turn them off.

On another note challenging the mods is not going to get you anywhere. If someone gets banned you should just stand back and not make things worse. If push comes to shove you are going to need a pretty darn good reason to get me to change the mods decisions.

Everyone knows I don't do well with conflict so take that as a threat to the whole forum.

Thanks

Tom Kaye

I took a long time off from paintball and AO in general, then came back here and so much has changed. I did some searching as to where my one of a kind sig went, and I find this thread answering my questions. I gotta say, when this decision came down that was a sad day. AO is no longer AO in my eyes. I know a lot of you have chimed in, and will continue to chime in with "Oh, sigs don't matter...if you don't like it, leave...blah, blah." Well, it's not the sigs themselves...it's what they represented. They are one of the things that made AO different from all the other forum boards on the net. This feeling of community, sharing things with "friends" you've never (or may never) meet, these were things that AO had and no longer does. It's too bad that too many immature kids had to ruin things for us older adults, but such is life though. I would like to say shame on you mods for being so conservative on an issue like this, but then again, I'm sure your job was something akin to managing a kindergarten class. At some point, you get fed up and the death of fun comes out. Sad to see it go that way, but I understand. This is all irrelevant as it will do nothing to change things, but I just wanted my opinion (as a long time AO member) to be heard. Sigs were part of the individuality of AO, and that individuality is gone. We around here pride ourselves on being so different than other boards, but show me now where we are? Because we don't allow cussing? Wow...that's so revolutionary.

As for Tom's qoute above, unlike the masses that generally hang on every word he says I have no problem criticizing him when it's appropriate.

"If someone gets banned you should just stand back and not make things worse"

When was doing nothing ever a good thing? I used to have a saying in my sig from time to time, which obviously couldn't be read now if I wanted it to be. It goes like this:

"Of course we should fear evil men, but an evil we must fear even more is the indifference of good men."

The mods aren't always right, so standing by and doing nothing...saying nothing...in certain cases, that should be viewed as wrong.

I'm sure this opens me up to criticism, but I really don't care. It's the internet, get over it.

~dre

[Beemer]

Sigs were part of the individuality of AO, and that individuality is gone.

Only because WE let it. We could start a revolution.

Remember the chain is only as strong as the weakest link.

I could put my sig in every post if I wanted and so could You.

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/SigPic.jpg

[fire1811]

we have been getting along just fine without them.

this is the first I have heard someone complain about it in over a month

[hitech]

Only because I'm too tired to complain. ;)

And yes, we could put our signatures in every post. But I don't think it will have the desired results.

__________________________________________________ ______
<img src="http://www.synreal.net/sig/hitech.gif">

Hey Hitech your starting to sound like me! - AGD <img src=http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/4161d9d6_207d/bc/Hosting/smiley_mini102.gif?CCCglmBB7Iu5tWX9>
Hitech is the man.... :eek: - Blennidae
The only Hitech Lubricant (http://www.kercon.com)

[WARPED1]

Wait, I'm confused. Why does he get to have a sig?! :mad:

[Lohman446]

Rather than an automatic "sig" Beemer and Hitech have illustrated that you could manually "sig" your posts if you so decided. If its such a big deal to you, put your sig in when yuo post, noone has told us that would be objectionable.

Either that or there just better than you ;)

[WARPED1]

I tried the sig thing, it said admin has disabled siognatures.

[Lohman446]

They are adding it to every thread... your sig is still there, in your profile. They are, for lack of a better term, cutting and pasting it to the bottom of there post... like a sig.

[JoshK]

I miss my sig, and making people their sigs on demand.


______________________________
"I can't wait until I'm old enough to feel ways about stuff."-Fry
"Whoa! Letters like 'u' and 'r' can mean words like 'you' and 'are'!"-Fry
"This concept of "wuv" confuses, and inferiates me!"- Lrrr of Omicron Persei 8
"The spirit is willing, but the flesh is spongy, and bruised."-Zapp
"I don't trust that doctor. I bet I've lost more patients than he's even treated."-Zoidberg
"This is the worst kind of discrimination. The kind against me!"-Bender