Why Did AGD Design the Automag with a Built in Regulator

[noahyay]

the regulator on the automag is not needed if there is an inline regulator such as a stabilizer

why did AGD make an unconventional design when so many people put regulators on their mags anyway?

It seems they would make more sales if they just moved the forgrip on the RT Pro to the rail and put on another steel hose and a reg

what do you think?
AGD?

[Chronobreak]

because its a great reg desighn...and tom is cool like that ;)

why make people buy stabs and regs etc etc too ....do you like buying these things...cause i sure dont.

people can still add any foregrip they want...i dont see the problem

[frischtr]

The automag was one of the first markers to accomodate constant air (thus the need for a regulator), so their design wasn't unconventional at the time, because it was one of the first! The mag has maintained nearly the exact same design as when it was invented, why... Beacuse it works, and works well :headbang: !

[Xyxyll]

Not to mention it's the fastest recharging reg in the world (the RT valves), and it's 10 years old.

[Conversekidz]

Explain to me why you want the extra weight of an additional reg on a mag that already weights a ton, when a single reg is all it needs?

[ezrunner]

when I asked Tom that question he told me that placing the reg at the back of the valve instead of all the way up at the front of the gun resulted in the highest possible recharge rate. There is less volume to affect between the reg output and the valve. This allowed him to recharge the dump chamber at about 43 times per second.

[ColdFuzion]

Exactly what the wise man above me said. ^^ Also, Tom is awesome, he can do crazy stuff and sell a ton of them. :)

-Cold

[FSU_Paintball]

Not to mention it's the fastest recharging reg in the world (the RT valves), and it's 10 years old.

Not quite. But it's pretty fast :)

Not many mag users have inline regs. They don't need to because it's built right into the gun. See, one less thing you need to buy! It makes perfect sense.

[noahyay]

thanks for the help

so the valve is reliable and consistant... those aare good reasons

[NewMagMan21]

I have no camplaint about the reg on mag ( I think they are great) But I think to make people happy there should be a plug or gas chamber er... whatever that can recplace the reg... That way if people for some strange reason want to put on a different reg. Just my opinion

[shorty24]

Beacuse it works, and works well :headbang: !

AMEN!!!!! :hail:

[shorty24]

[QUOTE=Conversekidz]a mag that already weights a ton[QUOTE]

Mags don't necessarily weigh a ton anymore, though - thanx to ULE and other things... :)

[shatter_storm]

the regulator on the automag is not needed if there is an inline regulator such as a stabilizer

why did AGD make an unconventional design when so many people put regulators on their mags anyway?

It seems they would make more sales if they just moved the forgrip on the RT Pro to the rail and put on another steel hose and a reg

what do you think?
AGD?
Not many people put regs on their mags - it's completely unnecessary. You want the highest operating pressure possible, and double regulating an already regulated output (the tank) isn't necessary, it only drops the pressure more.
The 'mag already has great price/performance because other than looks, you can't *do* anything to it to make it better. No upgrading a junk stock reg - the mag reg outperforms any user and loading system available. Having a design that requires a replaceable regulator (like any other marker available) usually means (other than AKA and palmer's markers) replacing it at some point or another because of recharge issues.


I have no camplaint about the reg on mag ( I think they are great) But I think to make people happy there should be a plug or gas chamber er... whatever that can recplace the reg... That way if people for some strange reason want to put on a different reg. Just my opinion

You can replace the regulator on the mag. The most common way of doing it is to buy a sideline stabilizer from Palmer's Pursuit and strap it to the side of the valve, then gut the valve componants. Take the regulator piston and spring out and it acts like a simple air passage. Alternatively, you can put a regulator on the foregrip and run the line back to the valve and then gut the valve.

The problem is, the 'mag design benefits from a *small* volume of regulated air. The design keeps the volume small by placing the regulator the closest it can get to the dump chamber - straight off the back. It wouldn't necessarily work the same with the same air pressure but more volume - you'd most certainly lose efficiency, which is something that's slightly lacking in an automag anyways.

[AGD]

What most of you fail to comprehend is that all the hammer valve guns (angel, timmy, cocker etc) have a regulator built into the body. The front reg is just for entertainment. The hammer valve actually does the final regulation of the air pressure hitting the ball. Problem is you can't charge 100 bucks for a hyped up valve stem.

We were the first to use on board regs, everyone else added it on later even though they were using the hammer valve for regulation. Well tuned pump guns did a fantastic job of regulating the velocity over a wide range of pressures. Unfortunately thats now a forgotten art.

AGD

[shatter_storm]

What most of you fail to comprehend is that all the hammer valve guns (angel, timmy, cocker etc) have a regulator built into the body. The front reg is just for entertainment. The hammer valve actually does the final regulation of the air pressure hitting the ball. Problem is you can't charge 100 bucks for a hyped up valve stem.

We were the first to use on board regs, everyone else added it on later even though they were using the hammer valve for regulation. Well tuned pump guns did a fantastic job of regulating the velocity over a wide range of pressures. Unfortunately thats now a forgotten art.

AGD

But you *can* charge $30 for a hyped up higher-flow valve assembly ex: cockers. The higher flow valves actually do something though...

What I don't get is how out of all the paintball industry, there have been only four popularized designs: hammer-struck valve with assist (autococker, intimidator, ego, angel, etc), hammer-struck valve with blowback (tippmann, spyder, clones), spool valve (shocker, matrix), and blow forward (mag, freestyle). There's got to be better or more efficient ways of valving air, but nobody's invented them yet.

[Conversekidz]

[QUOTE=Conversekidz]a mag that already weights a ton[QUOTE]

Mags don't necessarily weigh a ton anymore, though - thanx to ULE and other things... :)
ULE is new, my first mag was bought 9 years ago

[Muzikman]

Well tuned pump guns did a fantastic job of regulating the velocity over a wide range of pressures. Unfortunately thats now a forgotten art.

AGD

Not true, it is an art still handled by Glenn. The Phantom also does a great job.

[Muzikman]

What I don't get is how out of all the paintball industry, there have been only four popularized designs: hammer-struck valve with assist (autococker, intimidator, ego, angel, etc), hammer-struck valve with blowback (tippmann, spyder, clones), spool valve (shocker, matrix), and blow forward (mag, freestyle). There's got to be better or more efficient ways of valving air, but nobody's invented them yet.

I am sure you are right, there has to be a different design and someone will find it. Although not really new, the spool valve is the hot thing. Once they get all the performance possible out of it, someone will work on something else.

If you think about it though. The hammer valve was dreamed up or so many years ago and has been used for decades in the air (pellet/bb) industry. The spool valve was taken from the pneumatic tool and hydrolic world, the heart of a blowback is just just a hammer valve design, they just use the extra air to recock the gun, the blow forward...I am not sure of any other industry to use the system. I am sure there is one, but I can't think of it.

[Tunaman]

Not quite. But it's pretty fast :)

Not many mag users have inline regs. They don't need to because it's built right into the gun. See, one less thing you need to buy! It makes perfect sense."Not quite"? It is, and has always been the fastest recharging valve on the market. If you believe you know of a faster one please do us all a favor and show us the data proving it. Tom already has... ;)

[phantomhitman]

on a related note, can the reg be taken off, and the air ran through the body? I would love to use a normal reg (foregrip) so i can get rid of that annoying macroline. yes yes, i kow about teh venom hardlines and knockoffs, i want a celaner look.

[FSU_Paintball]

"Not quite"? It is, and has always been the fastest recharging valve on the market. If you believe you know of a faster one please do us all a favor and show us the data proving it. Tom already has... ;)

AKA 2-Liter. Faster and more consistent if I recall correctly. Of course, it took AWHILE for that to come out, and the Mag has been around forever.

[FSU_Paintball]

What I don't get is how out of all the paintball industry, there have been only four popularized designs: hammer-struck valve with assist (autococker, intimidator, ego, angel, etc), hammer-struck valve with blowback (tippmann, spyder, clones), spool valve (shocker, matrix), and blow forward (mag, freestyle). There's got to be better or more efficient ways of valving air, but nobody's invented them yet.

Go to the electronic cocker forum on PBN, check out the mQ-valve thread. New electronically controlled valve design!!! No hammer, no spool valve. Looks fantastic too.

[Athius]

What most of you fail to comprehend is that all the hammer valve guns (angel, timmy, cocker etc) have a regulator built into the body. The front reg is just for entertainment. The hammer valve actually does the final regulation of the air pressure hitting the ball. Problem is you can't charge 100 bucks for a hyped up valve stem.

We were the first to use on board regs, everyone else added it on later even though they were using the hammer valve for regulation. Well tuned pump guns did a fantastic job of regulating the velocity over a wide range of pressures. Unfortunately thats now a forgotten art.

AGD

But Tom what if the hpr in the back of an automag is changed into a LPR and then a front grip as a HPR?


I have always wonder allot about that.

[FSU_Paintball]

The 2-liter is a valve? Thats news to me... ;)

The original statement was "Not to mention it's the fastest recharging reg in the world (the RT valves), and it's 10 years old."

I think someone mistook my response to that to be talking about the valve, while I was still talking about the reg.

And if we're talking valves, I think recharge isn't something that people look at since it's more of a flow rate thing... full BPS capable cycles is what's important. And the mQ-valve appears to have the RT beaten there.

[Spartan X]

What most of you fail to comprehend is that all the hammer valve guns (angel, timmy, cocker etc) have a regulator built into the body. The front reg is just for entertainment. The hammer valve actually does the final regulation of the air pressure hitting the ball. Problem is you can't charge 100 bucks for a hyped up valve stem.

We were the first to use on board regs, everyone else added it on later even though they were using the hammer valve for regulation. Well tuned pump guns did a fantastic job of regulating the velocity over a wide range of pressures. Unfortunately thats now a forgotten art.

AGD


It's all about those Evil Pistons Tom... :cheers:

[shatter_storm]

But Tom what if the hpr in the back of an automag is changed into a LPR and then a front grip as a HPR?


I have always wonder allot about that.

The mag requires higher pressures in order to valve itself properly. Having a HPR on the grip and a LPR in the valve proper would result in a completely nonfunctional marker. If you swapped the bolt spring out for a much lighter one, it may cycle but I believe the velocity would be useless. The dump chamber is designed to use a certain amount of air at a certain pressure, if you lower the pressure you raise the volume requirements, which doesn't work in a 'mag.

Why change what works perfectly anyways? Almost everyone else uses a HPR for their valving and a LPR for their pneumatic control, but does that mean AGD needs to?

[shatter_storm]

The 2-liter is a valve? Thats news to me... ;)
Technically, regulators must have valves in them. Instead of an external force (hammer+spring, hammer+ram, solenoid, etc) acting upon the valve and opening it, a regulator has a spring acting against the air pressure. When the pressure drops, the valve opens and increases the pressure. 'Course, you knew that already. :)

It's kinda like comparing apples to oranges, though. The 2-liter is designed to regulate air, yes. The RT valve is designed to cycle a paintball marker.
Comparing recharge rate and # of cycles per second isn't really valid.

[BlackVCG]

It's the same concept as the automotive industry's use of the piston driven internal combustion engine (ICE). It's a design that works and works well. All the paintball gun designs out there are fundamentally the same. You can refine the systems, just like the automotive industry has done to the ICE but essentially there's only so many ways to do the same task. Unless the concept of paintball gun operation changes by means of a different power source, you'll see the same fundamental designs in all the guns.




But you *can* charge $30 for a hyped up higher-flow valve assembly ex: cockers. The higher flow valves actually do something though...

What I don't get is how out of all the paintball industry, there have been only four popularized designs: hammer-struck valve with assist (autococker, intimidator, ego, angel, etc), hammer-struck valve with blowback (tippmann, spyder, clones), spool valve (shocker, matrix), and blow forward (mag, freestyle). There's got to be better or more efficient ways of valving air, but nobody's invented them yet.

[minimag03]

Also, one of the main things AGD wanted to do with the Automag was to make is "pistol size". If they had a reg up front then it just made the entire marker larger.

[GT]

It's the same concept as the automotive industry's use of the piston driven internal combustion engine (ICE). It's a design that works and works well. All the paintball gun designs out there are fundamentally the same. You can refine the systems, just like the automotive industry has done to the ICE but essentially there's only so many ways to do the same task. Unless the concept of paintball gun operation changes by means of a different power source, you'll see the same fundamental designs in all the guns.


ture but,
you dont want to be the only guy driving a rotary to the field, :rofl:

[jewie27]

the regulator on the automag is not needed if there is an inline regulator such as a stabilizer

why did AGD make an unconventional design when so many people put regulators on their mags anyway?

It seems they would make more sales if they just moved the forgrip on the RT Pro to the rail and put on another steel hose and a reg

what do you think?
AGD?


Because it is a smart design. Ahead of it's time back in the early 90's. Back then Co2 was the gas of choice since it was the only thing available. The problem with Co2 is inconsistent velocity. If you regulate the pressure in the marker, it performs better. Since it's integrated there's not need to buy an inline regulator. :)

Just get a preset tank or adjustable air system and it's ready to shoot.