im very observant, sorry to ruin it but Tom slipped(z grip)

[Minimag4me]

i never thought i would see the day, but...

i find it all too convinent there is a new 4500 psi tank on the z gripped rt in the apg 2002 january issue of the APG(the write up is on the z grip). Im pretty sure that means this is a very recent picture and the z grips are going back into production, i know it is the new flatline because it is green and milled like the new blue ones, it doesnt look like the old ones. Tom said the online store was opening on monday, will this(z-grip) be for sale. Im sorry if i ruined toms secret(maybe) and i hope no one hates me. I appologize if this is wrong and just a conincidence that all of this is happening. im pretty sure no one else noticed this but if they did sorry for posting it again. This should be a secret contest to see who notices this first(hint hint).

[AGD]

Sorry to disappoint you but generally I am straight up about these things.

AGD

[Minimag4me]

darn but it was a nice try though, i got all excited for nothing, but why is there a 4500 on the marker...seems too convienent

edit: this is the first time tom replied to one of my posts directly im so honored (he didnt slip though i thought i had him for a second)

[BlackVCG]

Why the Z-Grip is shown in the issue of APG is unknown to AGD. This does not mean the Z-Grip is going back into production.

[Minimag4me]

i guess you could say i slipped for saying tom slipped, im so stupid(hits myself in the head multiple times)

it may be going back into production though... for angels:(

edit: i really cant type well i should start to use spellcheck

[Cha0tic]

Originally posted by Minimag4me
i guess you could say i slipped for saying tom slipped, im so stupid(hits myself in the head multiple times)

it may be going back into production though... for angels:(

edit: i really cant type well i should start to use spellcheck

its already been put on other electros....its pretty ugly when its not on a mag, but very cool.

[manike]

Ugly?... Ugly?... UGLY?!!!....

http://www.automags.org/~Manike/zm2kpic1.jpg

Yeah actually I see your point... ;) FUGLY! lol but it works...

manike

[shartley]

Yup.... got to concur on that one.

But wouldn't the correct term be "Esthetically Challenged"? ;)

[Bartleby]

with all the upgrades you have on the front of that bushy(not exactly sure what each of them are) and the z-grip, the thing looks kinda like a timmy.

[Jeb_Hoge]

Originally posted by manike
Ugly?... Ugly?... UGLY?!!!....

http://www.automags.org/~Manike/zm2kpic1.jpg



[sound of puking dog]

Gawd, that is hideous, no matter how innovative...

[Minimag4me]

Gawd thats fake and very ugly...but i still want to know how a 4500tank got on the z gripped rt in the pic

[BlackVCG]

Fake? Umm... no photoshop or picture modifications done there. That's the real deal. An AGD Z-Grip retro-fitted to a Bushmaster.

[Minimag4me]

sorry it must be glair on the back, it doesnt look aligned right also, but im dumb, another question: is agd putting these on other guns or is this a private job, if its agd why would they make them for other guns and not still mags?

[X-Plosive]

I still love you manike:D

manike did that himself.......he's trying to figure out a way to make an EZ-Mag but last I recall he is too busy to mess with that right now.

[Minimag4me]

thats cool then, why is it so hard ot make a z gripped e-mag, tom said it couldnt be done

[X-Plosive]

I really don't know. It has something to do with not having a solenoid with enough power that can fit into a space that size. That and the new sear would also have to be modified but I assume that can be problem can be fixed.

[Slapp]

During the tech class Tom did ask folks if they would like to see the Z-grip go back into production. He clearly believes it is a worthwhile product but no doubt has to balance market demand versus the costs of doing further production runs. The folks at the tech class gave him uniform support for the Z-grip but there is a difference between saying "gee, that is a cool looking product" and laying your cash down to own one yourself. If you own and favor Z-grips keep the feedback going to AGD and generate more interest out in the market by letting other folks check it out at the fields where you play. With enough "I intend to purchase one if they become available" type interest and feedback I think AGD could be convinced to open up another production run even if they are not currently planning to do so. Market demand has a way of generating market supply.

[Gunga]

Tom also said at the tech class that someone called up and asked about getting a license to produce the z-grip for Angels. Nothing's been officially worked out yet with that yet though.

He also said that they made about 500 z-grips in total. It only took about 4-5 years to sell them all. :(

Obviously he had to take that reality and balance it against the enthusiasm for the z-grips he finds amongst AOers.

Tom also had a few 'choice' words to describe his uh..."enthusiasm" (yeah, that's it) for 9v batteries and CO2. ;)

[manike]

Originally posted by Minimag4me
thats cool then, why is it so hard ot make a z gripped e-mag, tom said it couldnt be done

Hey Minimag it is most definitely real and not that hard to do for any electronic gun (I was going to put an Angel LCD board in the grip also but those things are expensive!) You can see pictures of me playing with it on www.warpig.com I used it at Skyball 2000 and World Cup 2000.

As for the E-Z-Mag, it's not easy because the orientation of the ram to the sear will have to change, so it can't pull on it in the same way as it does currently. Back in the days before the E-mag was made I looked at making one in a Z-grip... and I think I've worked out a nice way to do it, but it will take some time to finalise and will probably require a new grip machining, I'm doubtful I can fit it into a conventional grip. It may need a special sear making, but It may not. As Baldrick from Blackadder likes to say... "I have a cunning plan".

I will do it at some point... especially as I now have a model of a normal E-mag grip, but it's going to take me a while to get around to it due to life, work, and 'other' projects. If only I didn't have to do 'proper' work but could design and make paintball kit all day ;)

manike

[Gunga]

Originally posted by Minimag4me
thats cool then, why is it so hard ot make a z gripped e-mag, tom said it couldnt be done

Well, it can't be done with the existing z-grip frame. The solenoid wouldn't fit inside the grip. I whipped up a quick pic showing that below.

You also can't simply turn the solenoid to align with the z-grip. The solenoid pulls the plunger towards it. When you're pulling something with a solenoid, as in the emag, the lever arm for the solenoid assembly has to be at a 90* angle.

I suppose that you could change the angle of the sear arm that the solenoid assembly is attached to so that it lines up with the angle of the z-grip. But...that wouldn't give the solenoid the leverage it it has as in the Emag. So you would need a bigger solenoid which may not fit within the z-grip. And a bigger solenoid means more power needs which in turn means a bigger battery.

The 2nd paragraph is what Tom told us when some other AOer asked about electronic z-grips. The third paragraph is my semi-educated reasoning. :)

I'm sure there's a way it can be done, as Manike says above, but there would be quite a bit of engineering that would be needed. Also, with the original Z-grip, AGD made about 500 in total. And it took 4-5 years to sell all of those, so they weren't even crawling off the shelves, let alone flying. In comparision, with the Intelliframe, they've gone through the 1st production run of 250 units in what...2-3 months?

[Minimag4me]

i didnt know the solenoid pulled in an e-mag(i have a hyperframe and it pushes, why did agd make it pull), is there a reason they couldnt just machine a new sear with a smaller extension on the manual lever coming down at the end of that lever with an angle 90 degrees of the z grip angle(about 45 degrees right \ <-that way from the manual lever instead of 45 degrees/ way like the current e-mag) so the solenoid lines up straight with the z grip and just pushes the extension on the lever unstead of pulling(it would require the same ammount of energy i think), it would kinda change the whole sear design but it seems the easiest way

its kinda hard to explain i hope you all can understand what im trying to say, im not an engineer or anything but it seems like it would work

[KayleAGD]

On the way back from the tour Jeffand I worked out how to E the z-grip and still have the manual. I hope it will be ready before the last blast.

[JRSJKD]

If you build it, they will come!!!

Junior

[Paintballer86]

yesum, I noticed this also.

[Minimag4me]

the way i suggeested would still have the manual they would both be on the same lever just in different places(it would be a different sear design), is it better for a solenoid to pull or push, is there a difference?