Rouge mag Or Ion

[KTM Racing]

Hi im looking for a new back up gun and im thinking ion or mag but im aware most of you here LOVE mags but please tell me why you choose what

thanks

[p8ntball365]

First what is your main marker. I was gonna pick up an ion and have my ule'd mag for a back up until my dog needed stitches.

[TheTramp]

If you're looking for a back-up tournament gun than the Ion will probably be more like the other fast electros out there.

If you don't play tournaments than the rock solid performance of an RT-Pro can't be beat.

[Army]

It depends on if you want a "newest on the block" marker, or one that has been tagging players out for nearly 15 years.

Newest isn't always the best choice. Many people used to make fun of the Automag, calling it the "Tube with a trigger". Which is even more funny now with all the hoopla about the Ion.......which a tube with a trigger.

In-line reg? Got that. Modular body? Got that. Threaded barrels? Got that. Low pressure? Got the lowest ball impact pressure in the industry.

It's nothing new, per say, just more marketing hype. I'm NOT saying the Ion is no good, after all, it's Daddy is the proven and popular Shocker. I am saying that the Ion has nothing new over any Automag in performance.

[REDRT]

I like mags, but for a back-up the Ion would be just the thing. No anno to get scratched. Colors other than black and you can change it when you get tired of it or damaged. Electro with a cap of 17bps, brake beam eyes, and under 300 dollars. A good marker just to have or loan out. The only thing I wish they did was to thread it to shocker barrels instead of impluse threads. Honestly I feel the next step from the Ion should be the shocker. Imps are not the in thing from Smart Parts anymore.

[Lohman446]

The advantage of the mag as a back-up gun. Throw it in your bag, forget about it until you need it, a couple drops of oil and your good to go. If your other marker is not a Shocker you need to remember with an Ion you will need to keep Shocker lube around it and it may take awhile to lube the thing.

That being said, I own an Ion.

[slade]

you're looking for a backup gun; backups are supposed to be reliable. the mag fits that, the ion, most likely, doesnt. the ion maybe slightly faster, but my mag is pretty fast and i havent chopped a single ball yet. i also like the feel of it a lot, but that is personal opinion, i suppose.

[Conversekidz]

do you really want a backup that takes batteries?

[Glickman]

i have a matrix, a shocker and now an ion.

im selling the matrix and shocker.


getting another ion.



yes, i like it that much :D



it compromises no reliability for performance.


lubed it once, havent in a few uses, works just as good as when i bought it. i have a video of me slamming it against a redz chair.

when the new bodies come out, ill take a .22 and anything else i can find to it :D

[BD_Paintball]

My friend just bought an ion about 1 week ago to back up his nerve. He loves it, took out the trigger magnet and it fast, good eyes and very light and tight. I would go with the ion. He loves it

[Conversekidz]

Ask yourself this

Do you want a hyundi or a porsche?

[Blazestorm]

Considering your idea of a Porsche is pretty sad... I'd take the Hyundai and spend the rest of my money on "gas" to use said "Hyundai".

Pickup the Ion, I doubt you'll be disappointed.

[Glickman]

Considering your idea of a Porsche is pretty sad... I'd take the Hyundai and spend the rest of my money on "gas" to use said "Hyundai".

Pickup the Ion, I doubt you'll be disappointed.

lol. heres my analogy

Volvo
Volvo with supercharger

[barrel break]

I am saying that the Ion has nothing new over any Automag in performance.
Except for the fact that the ION has breakbeam eyes, shoots 17BPS, and can actually shoot the whole tank?
I hate to say support SP, but It IS a better deal.

[peewee]

Its all about personal preference. Personally I wold go with the mag. Its an axiom in paintball proven reliability. Shoots fast enough to get the job done. In a year you might look at an ion & go what was I thinking.... Its yet to prove its durable when compared to a mag & such. The ion is the flavor of the week at the moment I honestly thought about getting one but some stuff at work changed that. ( I'm a gun whore) the two that my local shop got both went back with issues right out of the box.

[Glickman]

the two that my local shop got both went back with issues right out of the box.

so why is it only the ions that go to the shops have problems?
:rolleyes:

i havent seen 1 person with an out of the box problem that wasnt fixed with reading the manual...

[ultralight]

before you read the rest of this you should know that while i do not agree with smart part's buisness practices, the following (except for the last part) is not affected by my preference toward agd. i am merely comparing the two products in the role of backup marker.

i personally would rather have the mag. heres why:

the ion is a new smart parts product. as anyone who pays attention knows, new smart parts products need at least six months to work out all of the bugs. this means that the early versions of this marker may prove unreliable when you need it. not usually a desired quality in a backup.

the ion is electronic. this means that if your primary went down due to rain complications you can probably guess what will happen to your backup. also (i'm assuming that your primary is electronic) if you forgot to charge your primary, what are the chances that you charged your backup?

also, the ion is made in taiwan. i don't know about you but i try to buy american for all of my larger purchases. this is just my personal preference.

the automag has proven it's reliability (especially as a backup) for over ten years. the rt variants are among the fastest firing markers, if not the fastest on the planet. the automag, especially those from rogue, can be extremely lightweight and well balanced.

the automag is 100% mechanical. this is a big plus for a backup. it means that if you do encounter a problem on the field you can probably fix it within minutes.

and finally, airgun designs has the best tech support and maintenance crews in the buisness. period. do you ever see the owner of smart parts personally answering questions from customers?

and by the way. YOU ARE NEW HERE, SO THIS WILL BE ONLY A WARNING THIS TIME. DO NOT CUSS, DO NOT CIRCUMVENT THE CUSS FILTER, RE-READ THE RULES---WE ENFORCE THEM ON AO...ARMY smart parts. they care nothing for the future of the sport and have no love of anything but their precious bottom line. thats why their markers are now made in taiwan and why they are threatening lawsuits when other innovators chose not to patent their ideas for the good of the sport..


Except for the fact that the ION has breakbeam eyes, shoots 17BPS, and can actually shoot the whole tank?
I hate to say support SP, but It IS a better deal.

the mag doesn't need eyes, is capable of 26bps (has been clocked around 32bps) , and never needs batteries. you can also clean it by airing it up and tossing it in a bucket of water.

[CaliMagFan]

buy the Ion or a Wrath.. you can get 2 for the price of one mag with similar performance. And you that say the mag will do 26 bps, and maybe 32, try to shoot that fast at a field and you'll get kicked out faster than you can say, "should have bought SP!" ... not to mention getting laughed at by chrono refs in tournies.

I love my mag, and last weekend i put my wrath down for half a day to go back to it. But in the end you're talking about more gun for half the price... go with the Ion and buy yourself 4 cases of paint extra with the $200 you saved, cause with the Ion or wrath you'll be capable of shooting that much faster that with any "legal" mag.

-kyro

[ultralight]

buy the Ion or a Wrath.. you can get 2 for the price of one mag with similar performance. And you that say the mag will do 26 bps, and maybe 32, try to shoot that fast at a field and you'll get kicked out faster than you can say, "should have bought SP!" ... not to mention getting laughed at by chrono refs in tournies.

I love my mag, and last weekend i put my wrath down for half a day to go back to it. But in the end you're talking about more gun for half the price... go with the Ion and buy yourself 4 cases of paint extra with the $200 you saved, cause with the Ion or wrath you'll be capable of shooting that much faster that with any "legal" mag.

-kyro

not saying that you would or even should shoot at 26 or 32. i was simply pointing out that the ion doesn't have a speed advantage over a mag. and if you look you can find great deals on automags. i picked up a factory assembled tac one with ult installed in pristine condition for $320.
i picked up another x valved mag for $290, they are out there and relatively easy to find. imo if you are relying on an electro as your primary it is wise to avoid "putting all of your eggs in one basket" by having a mechanical backup.
then again i'm a big fan of reliability... i started with a vm68.

[TMAXXKING1]

i say mag... :shooting: :shooting:

1. rogue killer product he stands behind aswell as anyone that owns his product's
2. agd stands behind there product
3.you know it will be reliable
4. cocker threads a plus for almost any person with another gun with cocker threads
5. value of the dollor there will always be a place for a mag whole or in parts..
6. made in america

why i say no to ion

1. they stole the name from a lame car made by GM
2. like any other smart parts product there will be some problems for the first run
3. seems to be alot of plastic ..
4. what value will it have after you use it once
5. 5 times you have packed and shipped it back to sp you could have bought 1 mag and had an awesome marker from the start...



if you choose the ion ..
i hope you get nice thick box to ship it back to sp in ..
and i hope you like stickers .. that box will have more stickers then 10 greatful dead head's
guitar cases ... :rofl: :rofl:

[Army]

2. like any other smart parts product there will be some problems for the first run
3. seems to be alot of plastic ..

The only plastic is the removable/exchangable "exoskeleton" that surrounds the aluminum chassis.

Any new marker from any company will have its share of teething problems, not a valid point.


...and I think the Ion is made by Saturn :p

[Glickman]

the mag doesn't need eyes, is capable of 26bps (has been clocked around 32bps) , and never needs batteries. you can also clean it by airing it up and tossing it in a bucket of water.

so everyones gonna get away with having it on super bouncy full auto?

how many people you think get it past 15?


any gun is capable of 26, doesnt mean its feasable by its mechanical point of view...


they care nothing for the future of the sport and have no love of anything but their precious bottom line. thats why their markers are now made in taiwan and why they are threatening lawsuits when other innovators chose not to patent their ideas for the good of the sport..

edit: im not even going to bother commenting on this, all im going to say is to check the developments with wdp

[peewee]

Went to the shop last night to get some macro line etc & to find out what was wrong with the ions. The owner had no clue as to what I was talking about. The kid that I spoke with & his buddy bought them at employee discount!!!! :mad: They had them stashed so that they wouldnt get bought. Owner isnt to happy with the kid. :tard: :shooting: Owner said that the guns were flawless out of the box. I guess that I can take solace in the fact that they were not a color that I'd have liked. He said it will be three weeks before he can get any more in. Personally My vote still goes for the mag!!!! There is some prestige that goes with owning a sweet mag. Didnt get any respect a couple years ago but as of late getting lots of compliments etc. Every one & thier dog is going to have an ion...

[Miscue]

Ion is a World-Beater. Ridiculous marker for the price. It costs... "how much?" was my first thought. I've recommended it to co-workers looking for a starter setup for their kids. Typically I frown on anything SP. But I can't ignore a solid marker for such a great price, regardless of who makes it. It's the only product that I would buy from SP, if I wasn't already stocked up on AGD markers. A few months ago, if someone asked what they could get for $300 - I'd say "garbage." Not anymore.

What's going to be interesting, is the type of stuff that's going to show up for around $300. Paintball is going to be more affordable, especially for beginners... you won't need a $1200 marker to compete, the performance difference is becoming marginal.

I still think the RT/Pro - EMag are better markers. But you can't buy a mechanical RT/Pro new, for the price of these electros with eyes, rebounding cheese mode, etc. that seem to operate peachy keen from what I've seen so far.

[CaliMagFan]

1. they stole the name from a lame car made by GM



and the automag stole its name from... a gun....
so which is the closer call? Bullet GUN and paintball GUN
or Car and paintball gun...

i'm thinking its the former,

and of course thats no reason to take one product over the other, but you seemed to need a nudge to remember all the facts.

-kyro

[FSU_Paintball]

It's nothing new, per say, just more marketing hype. I'm NOT saying the Ion is no good, after all, it's Daddy is the proven and popular Shocker. I am saying that the Ion has nothing new over any Automag in performance.

Yes it does, speed and weight. And speed is VERY important depending what style you play.

If you play with some buddies or at fields that don't have many upper-end electros you can get the Mag. Otherwise you're MUCH better off getting an electro - period.

It depends what you want and where you play, but non-electro mags just don't cut it these days on the speedball field.

Get an Ion.

This isn't exactly a non-biased place to ask, ya know? Why don't you go to a general paintball forum and ask the question?

Of course, I already know what they'll say - Ion. Partially because AGD is "out of style" and the Ion is in, and partially because the mag just can't compete with an Ion.

I'm probably gonna get blasted for this one. But oh well. I know I'm right. Speed matters these days, and don't listen to those who say otherwise. Speed is an advantage, and you should take any (legal) advantage you can get. If one gun gives you an advantage over another, you better believe I'll be using it.

[Army]

also, the ion is made in taiwan. i don't know about you but i try to buy american for all of my larger purchases. this is just my personal preference.



The marker is all American made, only the polymer exoskeleton is foreign made.

Facts work much better in a discussion.

[TheTramp]

Will the marker function without the exoskeleton?


I know that the exoskeleton keeps the eyes in place but I'm sure you could fasion something to do the same job.

[TheTramp]

I have yet to see an Ion.

I wonder if there is more to it than just the eyes. Otherwise, why would the marker need disassembly to change out the exoskeleton?

I really don't know. I just say the pictures that explained how the eyes are held in place by the "body" and that's why you couldn't just play with it off.

[Lohman446]

Will the marker function without the exoskeleton?


Yes it will - though it does hold the eyes on and help them reflect - eye function will be questionable without it. The way the shell fits to the body is why marker dissassembly is needed to replace the shell. Aside from looks, and holding the eyes in place, it has no function I can see

:rolleyes: If you are making the shell made in Taiwan (I dont know that, taking at face value) a determining factor whether it is American made. Chysler claims many of there vehicles American assembled when they are 49.XXX assembled south of the border. These include very important components - like the engine...

I already noted that in this case I thought the mag was a better marker for this use btw. but do not discount the Ion either.

The Ion is, for 99% of the people who play, capable of firing, in legal modes and semi-auto faster than the mag is.

Breakbeam eyes, to me, are much better than level ten - I hated level ten and to me its effectiveness in playing was questionable. PS - I don't have to "set-up" or tune break beam eyes. Not to mention that proactive solution is generally better and faster than a reactive one, and is, if nothing else, faster in this case.

The Ions, at least the ones I have seen and had reports of, have been remarkably better quality and function than I would have expected. Though if I recall the manual (and Im not sure) there was something about left handed threading used in part of the marker - thats going to create parts sales.

Mag pluses
First off, I am not going to discuss this as a LX X-valved mag. I think if your using it solely as a backup marker this is a mistake. LX requires too much tuning to be the old reliable workhorse marker that the classic was. You also have possible chrono issues with refs. Let me instead consider here a classic valved marker with whatever frame you choose.

1) Reliable - classic valve mag, don't use it for two years, leave it to be beat up in your gear bag, pull it out, drop oil in the ASA, screw in the tank and chrono, you should be good to go. If you go with a marker with LX through this out the window IMHO. LX is great, but you give up reliability for it (to me).
2) No batteries - if its raining like mad, no worries in using it
3) With forcefed feedsystems LX may not be needed - after all it is unlikely on a mechanical you outshoot the HALO. Besides with a classic valve 12 or so BPS is all you can expect, enough for a backup marker.

Shortcoming
1) If you are able to shoot over 15BPS you have no way of limiting yourself to be within current PSP rules

Ion pluses - nothing about design here, looks, etc.
1) Its the "in" thing, or is looking to be
2) Breakbeam eyes
3) Firing modes - if legal (PSP code)
4) Spool valve, lower pressure operation (can shoot deeper into the tank)
5) There are about 200 other rea$on$ - I bet you can think of them

Shortcomings
1) Longevity and durability are still in the air - looking at the relatively simplistic mechanical and electrical nature of this marker I expect most people to be happily surprised.
2) Need for Shocker lube, do not know how long it can sit around and still be "ready"
3) Electronic. Why did your other marker fail? Was it rain and mud related? I don't see the Ion being as impervious to water as some other electronic markers have proven to be - has not been tested yet

[Faction_Zero]

...and I think the Ion is made by Saturn :p

...and Saturn is a division of GM.

[ultralight]

so everyones gonna get away with having it on super bouncy full auto?

how many people you think get it past 15?

first sentence post #19.
i am all for the 15bps cap. it keeps things fun and more importantly safe.


edit: im not even going to bother commenting on this, all im going to say is to check the developments with wdp

i've kept myself fairly up to date on the recent legal battle and subsequent joint custody of the patents. i seem to be missing your point. are you saying that sp isn't the only one doing it?


The marker is all American made, only the polymer exoskeleton is foreign made.

Facts work much better in a discussion.

considering that the exoskeleton is part of the marker, it can't be said that the marker is all american made. however you do have a point, it is mostly american made. but for how long?
the two real problems i see with out sourcing production of parts to other countries are that it is a very slippery slope. and many companies start by out sourcing small things to other countrys and end up (due to tremendous labor/plant costs) making products that were only designed and sold in the U.S.A.. and that when you are having things built overseas it becomes very difficult to maintain quality control standards.

KTM, my advice is to head to your local field/pro shop and check out the mags and the ion. test them and figure out what you like and which features are important to you.

[Army]

The "not made in America" argument is silly. How many of you have owned a Spyder? My guess would be...a whole lot of you. How many of you would pee their pants to have an Angel, and brag about it? How many of you have checked the label on your jersey and tourney pants? Shoes you play in? How about them paintballs, with many being made in Canada?

Well, we can call Canada the "Northern Posessions" :rofl:

[ultralight]

The "not made in America" argument is silly. How many of you have owned a Spyder? My guess would be...a whole lot of you. How many of you would pee their pants to have an Angel, and brag about it? How many of you have checked the label on your jersey and tourney pants? Shoes you play in? How about them paintballs, with many being made in Canada?

Well, we can call Canada the "Northern Posessions" :rofl:

hahahahaa. its funny cause it's true.
i count myself among the lucky few who have never experienced the "joys" of a spyder firsthand. i have heard my friends whining about them alot though.

[openboater]

Mag pluses
First off, I am not going to discuss this as a LX X-valved mag. I think if your using it solely as a backup marker this is a mistake. LX requires too much tuning to be the old reliable workhorse marker that the classic was.

Shortcoming
1) If you are able to shoot over 15BPS you have no way of limiting yourself to be within current PSP rules



I haven't touched my LX's in over 2 years. once they got really broken in, oil and shoot. the only time I had real problems was playing in early march, when I'd prep the marker inside at 70 degrees and then play outside at 33 and rain / show. For your backup to be trully usefull, you have to treat it just like your prime before the day starts. Run it past the chrono and have it ready to go if needed.

to limit the BPS just turndown the input pressure to reduce the reactivity, or have your brain tell the finger not to shoot so fast.

one factor that has been touched on is the resale factor. sometimes it's hard to sell a whole marker, but the beauty of a mag is you can part it out.

and with a simple $20 parts kit, you know you've got virtually everything you need to make a mag run again if it hiccups.

[Lohman446]

I haven't touched my LX's in over 2 years. once they got really broken in, oil and shoot. the only time I had real problems was playing in early march, when I'd prep the marker inside at 70 degrees and then play outside at 33 and rain / show. For your backup to be trully usefull, you have to treat it just like your prime before the day starts. Run it past the chrono and have it ready to go if needed.

to limit the BPS just turndown the input pressure to reduce the reactivity, or have your brain tell the finger not to shoot so fast.

one factor that has been touched on is the resale factor. sometimes it's hard to sell a whole marker, but the beauty of a mag is you can part it out.

and with a simple $20 parts kit, you know you've got virtually everything you need to make a mag run again if it hiccups.

I have owned several LX mags - One E-mag, a couple RT Pro style (built off AM/MM rails before the current RT Pro). Now I will note these were all aluminum X-valves, maybe the X-valve is the issue. To me, LX, when you had it tuned "close" was finicky. If you didn't tune it close it broke paint. I stand by my comment that LX, most of the time, is not the reliable workhorse that the classic mag was

[Lohman446]

What a surprise...:rolleyes: Quoted from Level 10 installation instructions:

Fine tuning
For most people the setup outlined above will make every paintball day a great experience. For those looking to get maximum anti chop with fragile tourney paint we offer the following suggestions. The O-ring friction can be used to additionally slow the bolt down. By going to the next smaller carrier you add an additional layer of protection at the expense of risking bolt stick. You must keep your marker oiled daily to keep it working reliably. The long mainspring can be trimmed to further fine tune the performance. The best performance comes when the marker just starts firing at 270 fps and works reliably at 290 fps.

The penalty for over tuning is the fact that the marker may occasionally refuse to fire. This is because the main spring combined with the power tub O-ring has too much sticktion to let the bolt go forward. Try at your own risk.

I was trying to make the point that it is finicky. And it is to have it set "tight". I don't have this problem with break beam eyes, or Vision.


Then you must be using some crappy paint.

Funny, same paint through my Shocker after I got sick of my mag chopping it never was an issue.


:rolleyes: Yeah, I gotta roll my eyes at this one too. Thats not a very bold statement to stand behind, since Tom himself said that Level 10 would require tuning and not be as simple as Level 7.

The simplicity of Level 7 is what made it the *workhorse* of reliability that it is.

Fine, I stated a well backed argument, whats your point?


Very few instances where you can have your cake and eat it too. With every benefit comes a drawback. In the case of Level 10, you need to tune it. Level 7, it wasnt as in-depth or necessary(or finicky).

Whats the drawback of vision and break beam eyes? If it fails it can be turned off instantly, on field, without dismantling the marker



Dont like Level 10? Go back to Level 7, nothing is stopping you.

Nice attitude, I chose option B - sold the E-mag bought a Shocker with Vision. I now am trying option C - a Devilmag. The point is, that attitude pushed me out of mags at one point and coming back.... well its harder to get a customer back. I was not at all unhappy with my Shockers, coming back was because I wanted something that TK had a hand in and not anything more.

And before you get to the point that I'm trying to be against you - do note my first post on this subject indicated that the Rogue Mag - or whatever you have called it, may very well be the better marker for the job. I did clarify that to some degree, but of the Ion and it, the Mag is the better marker for what he intends to use it for, for a series of reasons, at least in my opinion. However, in the same boat I would also consider a cheaper, and perhaps better suited marker in a classic mag.

[TheTramp]

I don't understand why people (you included) insist or comparing L10 with electronic eyes. The thing that makes L10 so wonderful is that it adds anti-chop protection to a MECHANICAL marker. Something that can't (obviously) be done with eyes.

If you want to shoot a mechanical marker, which a lot of people do, then L10 is one of the best things that has ever been developed.

My classic valved Mag was a "reliable workhorse" at fireing but since it chopped regularly a lot of those shots didn't result in a ball going anywhere near my target.


Also, I instaled my L10 when I got the "beta" kit and I haven't changed anything since the 1000 shot carrier change. Med. spring and I don't chop. Chuff? yes, barrel break? sometimes. No chops.

[Lohman446]

I don't understand why people (you included) insist or comparing L10 with electronic eyes. The thing that makes L10 so wonderful is that it adds anti-chop protection to a MECHANICAL marker. Something that can't (obviously) be done with eyes.

We were comparing a mag to an Ion, so the comparison of there anti-chop devices seemed to be applicable.

[openboater]

on a scale of 1 to 10, ten being best for a guaranteed to work backup marker

level 7 mag I give an 8, I found once I chopped, I had problems til I thoroughly cleaned it.

Lx mag I give a 9 for the first year and a 10 after that due to learning curve and break-in

Tippman I give a 10 for guaranteed to work, but 5 for everything else.

ION, I can't comment cause I've never even touched one.



this is my personal belief, nothing scientific or concrete about it.

[Lohman446]

Its only finicky if you tune it to the edge of performance, as stated in the instructions above. Once I got mine tuned, I havent had a problem with the Level 10. Not once. Now am I representatvie of the majority, or are you? I dont know.

But I do know the majority of those that follow the instructions and expect from the product what it states in those instructions are satisfied with their Level 10.

I stated 2 possiblities...you are focusing on only one. Please read the other.

Yep, you can turn it off....and then chop. Then whats the difference?

Drawback= they dont work 100% of the time either. Ive seen plenty of players with "break beam eyes" and "vision" that malfucntioned, got gunked up and/or didnt work in the middle of a game.

The attitude that what?...someone expects a product not to be finicky when the instructions say it will be when tuned to maximum performance?

And then complain that its finicky when they tune it to maximum performance?

Who said I thought you were against me? I thought this was a discussion of differing opinions?

For the average player, Level 10 is AWESOME at what it was intended to do....

Prevent the majority of breech chops that Level 7 gave Mags the reputation of a blender.

Ok, I may have read hostility into your post that wasn't there. I'll even take the blame for that one, no hard feelings.

The discussion over LX and eyes has been done before... a million times so I'll just leave it. Let me put this out there though. With markers realistically shooting in the 15BPS area and feeders feeding at 22+, except for the very bottom of the feeder anti-chop systems may be considred overly important - I don't think there that needed. I think this is why everyone thinks that the eyes are so much better than they were pre-HALO.

I admit that my experiences with my E-mag were, in general, from me pushing it to the very edges of performance - and by the time I was done I really really hated that marker and it left a bad taste for everything mag related that took me some time - half a year to get over. As such my experiences are likely not indicative of the majority. My point is the Shocker, giving me the same or better performance than my mag was not nearly as finicky - though it had its own problems that were tuning related. PS they (I had several, my main, my primary, and a loaner) had some problems that were manufacturer related that I never had with my mag.

[tony3]

Yep, you are right rogue, smartparts is going to make good first batch guns then make horrible ones from then on, explains why the first batch shockers were sooo good :rolleyes: You got to be kidding me.

[Rinaldo]

not saying that you would or even should shoot at 26 or 32. i was simply pointing out that the ion doesn't have a speed advantage over a mag. and if you look you can find great deals on automags. i picked up a factory assembled tac one with ult installed in pristine condition for $320.
i picked up another x valved mag for $290, they are out there and relatively easy to find. imo if you are relying on an electro as your primary it is wise to avoid "putting all of your eggs in one basket" by having a mechanical backup.
then again i'm a big fan of reliability... i started with a vm68.

Help me find a mag of that quality and price and I'll hook you up with something you'll really like.

Hit me up On AIM ABC Rinaldo

[Lohman446]

Are you saying the first batch of shockers was good? Or bad?

I couldnt tell through the sarcasm :rolleyes:


The first batch of 03 Shockers definetly had there issues if I recall correctly (I did not buy one until early 04).

However, SP seems to have gotten the release of the Nerves right technically, though from a business aspect it sucked. The Ions, at least the ones I have seen and shot, seem to be overall good quality.