AGD Future?

[REDRT]

This might start a riot so I'll tread lightly. I wonder if it be possible for AGD to hook up with the boys at Smartparts? After all the shocker is kind of like a emag. Smartparts have been around for some time and have brought some good things to the industry. They once made parts for mags. If a deal could be made it might not be that bad. Together they might be the hands down best. Smartparts might not be everyones best friends, but they know how to make money. Something AGD hasn't done for a while. Just a thought.

Try to keep things civil. I don't want to see anyone banned. This is just hypothetical.

[Chronobreak]

wasnt there a rumor of agd being asked to help desighn the shocker..or soemthing liek that

then again it couldve just been a rumor.. :cool:

[Muzikman]

Umm...a shocker is NOTHING like a mag. I mean they might look kinda similar in an odd sort of way, they both have a barrel, they both have triggers and they both shoot paintballs of the .68 cal size. That is about where the similarities stop.

Smart Parts knows how to make money, why would they want to deal with AGD? Smart parts know how to make money because they know how to make stuff on the cheap, that is not the way AGD ever operated. No matter who would make a mag, it's not going to be cheap.

[REDRT]

Umm...a shocker is NOTHING like a mag. I mean they might look kinda similar in an odd sort of way, they both have a barrel, they both have triggers and they both shoot paintballs of the .68 cal size. That is about where the similarities stop.


Don't forget the magnet for the trigger. Granted they don't use HES, but they still have a magnetic trigger.

edit: The little milling done to the feed neck sure looks like a ULE body feed neck also

[minimag03]

I want AGD to get a STD and see what comes out.



http://stdindustries.com/

[REDRT]

Smart Parts knows how to make money, why would they want to deal with AGD?

You might have a point.

[Baby Huey]

Well, I have only had one SP product, my '03 Shocker. I can tell you that there is nothing cheap about purchasing it and the upgrades. I can also tell you that there is nothing cheap about the construction. I have been using it 6-7 times a month for 7 months and not one problem. Accurate, light, and very fast. I am ordering my first Mag tonight (for scenerio play), looking forward to the same quality and reliability. God Bless.

Baby Huey

[mag88888]

minimag03-"I want AGD to get a STD and see what comes out."

lol :rofl:

[Target Practice]

Hey, look, another thread full of people who haven't the slightest idea about anything.

:thumbsup:

Fake Edit: Except for Jason. He's cool.

[Muzikman]

Well, I have only had one SP product, my '03 Shocker. I can tell you that there is nothing cheap about purchasing it and the upgrades. I can also tell you that there is nothing cheap about the construction. I have been using it 6-7 times a month for 7 months and not one problem. Accurate, light, and very fast. I am ordering my first Mag tonight (for scenerio play), looking forward to the same quality and reliability. God Bless.

Baby Huey


I never said they sell things cheap. They make things cheap. Their markup on their stuff is amazingly high.

I also never said they make things cheap either. Some of their stuff if pretty high quality, but that is usally not until about a year after it's been out. Look at how many problems the Impulse had when it first came out. Same with the first shockers, same with the nerve (that's why it took so long to get into production). I have no dealings with the 03 Shockers so I do not know what problems if any they had out of the gate.

[minimag03]

Hey, look, another thread full of people who haven't the slightest idea about anything.

:thumbsup:

Fake Edit: Except for Jason. He's cool.

What? I'm just saying there is no way AGD would ever come out with a new AIR valve marker with SS bodies, RTP barrels, and single frames. I bet they wouldn't be for entry and rentals too. NEVER!

[Lohman446]

wasnt there a rumor of agd being asked to help desighn the shocker..or soemthing liek that

then again it couldve just been a rumor.. :cool:

I beleive TK said he had offered to help in exhange for liscence to make electros

[cledford]

I beleive TK said he had offered to help in exhange for liscence to make electros

Really?

[REDRT]

Might be were TK is right now. Over at SP World Headquarters. Can't beat them join them...

[Target Practice]

Can't beat them join them...

That's a cowardly, chickencrap way to think.

[REDRT]

That's a cowardly, chickencrap way to think.

It is just an old saying, chill :)

[minimag03]

Might be were TK is right now. Over at SP World Headquarters. Can't beat them join them...

Tom wouldn't do that. If he told us he is taking time away from paintball, then he is.

[REDRT]

Tom wouldn't do that. If he told us he is taking time away from paintball, then he is.

How do you know? It might be all a hoax. He is kind of a skidish guy that doesn't take to confortation. If he believed it would help his company to help SP without conflict. I think he might just fib about his where abouts because of his issues with confortations. Just a theory.

[minimag03]

How do you know? It might be all a hoax. He is kind of a skidish guy that doesn't take to confortation. If he believed it would help his company to help SP without conflict. I think he might just fib about his where abouts because of his issues with confortations. Just a theory.

1) Tom will not lie to us.
2) SP wouldn't give up what they won in court for Tom. They are most likely making more money now then ever and they don't need Tom's help.

[REDRT]

1) Tom will not lie to us.
2) SP wouldn't give up what they won in court for Tom. They are most likely making more money now then ever and they don't need Tom's help.

1. He isn't a saint. LOL

2. still the shocker is looking more like a mag every year. One has the right to wonder.

[minimag03]

2. still the shocker is looking more like a mag every year. One has the right to wonder.

:eek: Then Tom must have helped ICD. The Freestyle's blow forward bolt and single tube design is a lot more like a Automag then a Shocker.

[REDRT]

Maybe Tom got out with a big bundle of money and Dave is the hatchet man parting what is left away. Liquidating the company.

[Target Practice]

Maybe Tom got out with a big bundle of money and Dave is the hatchet man parting what is left away. Liquidating the company.

Maybe you're paranoid. My first post stands.

[minimag03]

Maybe you're paranoid. My first post stands.

Why do we not know anything?

[Lohman446]

Maybe Tom got out with a big bundle of money and Dave is the hatchet man parting what is left away. Liquidating the company.

You know how reasonable and logical of a conclusion that is. Considering that Dave bought the inventory, and the few posts we have seen have brought up questions about patents / etc. Not that I have thought about it at all ;)

I think TK got out of paintball for risk analysis reasons. 1) Making an electro runs the risk of being sued and loosing profits you had worked hard to make 2) New markers and mass production made it harder to turn a good profit 3) Markers made n violation of ASTM standards (which to be "competetive" now it seems necessary) may leave the maker open to civil and criminal liabilities 4) TK is not as judgement proof as he was when AGD started and was cutting edge 5) It was becoming too political.

I think the risk was no longer worth the reward

[REDRT]

You know how reasonable and logical of a conclusion that is. Considering that Dave bought the inventory, and the few posts we have seen have brought up questions about patents / etc. Not that I have thought about it at all ;)

Thanks. I've been involved with companies that closed in such away. I'm not totally nuts! AGD has been still for some time, the old inventory is been sold out. The key guy just walks away. To each his own, but it sure seems alot like the now defunk companies I have worked for in the past.

[hitech]

I want AGD to get a STD and see what comes out.




:rofl:

STD....

:rofl:

[j.storm]

Well, if, and I stress IF, TK did decide to work for SP (or already was and had a hand in the Shockers), I might actually consider buying their products again.....well, a shocker at any rate, and that's a big, BIG maybe (would be painful to my bank account don't ya know). It really is a "who cares?" situation anyway. The man has a right to do what he wants, right?

[REDRT]

Well, if, and I stress IF, TK did decide to work for SP (or already was and had a hand in the Shockers), I might actually consider buying their products again.....well, a shocker at any rate, and that's a big, BIG maybe (would be painful to my bank account don't ya know). It really is a "who cares?" situation anyway. The man has a right to do what he wants, right?

Sure Tom can do whatever he wants. It is AGD the company he left behind that concerns me. There is going to be a time where they will be forced to do something. The question is what will that be?

[AGD]

First off, I am a pretty transparent guy known to speak my mind. If you think there is some dark side to me that is off doing something unusual your probably wrong.

Secondly, the fat lady has not sung yet.

AGD

[Lohman446]

First off, I am a pretty transparent guy known to speak my mind. If you think there is some dark side to me that is off doing something unusual your probably wrong.

Secondly, the fat lady has not sung yet.

AGD


I like that... at least the end. You have to understand though, regardless of wild guesses I take here, or logical conclusions that make sense - I don't in any way shape or form blame you for anything you did, have done, or will do with AGD. Its your company and its not my judgement to make. You have far more information than any of us do, and have shown that your ability to lead the company is likely far better than many of ours. Your ability, your friendliness, and your general concern for the welfare of the industry as a whole in the past has proven your character more than once. Your concern for the players, and your customers is unquestionable in my mind - even when we might not like where that concern leads us :D

[REDRT]

First off, I am a pretty transparent guy known to speak my mind. If you think there is some dark side to me that is off doing something unusual your probably wrong.

Secondly, the fat lady has not sung yet.

AGD

The ship has left the port though.

[AGD]

Lohman,

Speculation on this forum is both fun and welcome. I think everyone has good perspectives and is covering all the bases.

RedRT, yes the ship has left the port but that means its going somewhere.

AGD

[luke]

Secondly, the fat lady has not sung yet.


RedRT, yes the ship has left the port but that means its going somewhere.

Grrrrrrrr, what are you up to! :spit_take


:)

[SCpoloRicker]

RedRT, yes the ship has left the port but that means its going somewhere.

AGD

Pre-order! In Black!

/you rock, AGD

[Lohman446]

Pre-order! In Black!

/you rock, AGD

BS - I have the first preorder about a year ago when we were discussing the gun TK would build for TK.... I would have to hunt down the post

You can have the second

[Rinaldo]

Tom if contributions are allowed I'd like to be the first.
I was dissapointed with Bob started making those crap electros... and I was even more disappointed when Bud pretty much retired. I'd like to see you continue leading this nation we call PB.

[REDRT]

RedRT, yes the ship has left the port but that means its going somewhere.

AGD

Might just fall off the edge of the world!! :eek: The world is flat isn't it?

Seriously any idea where it is going? Can we expect something AGD cool in the near future?

[Lohman446]

Ready for wild rumors to start flying

TK leaves the established and not judgement proof AGD

Shortly thereafter the top designers and engineers of AKA leave the established and not judgement proof AKA

A new company - STD, likely with several layers of corporate shielding, is already starting to float its name in the established communities of both AKA and AGD.

:D

[Rinaldo]

Ready for wild rumors to start flying

TK leaves the established and not judgement proof AGD

Shortly thereafter the top designers and engineers of AKA leave the established and not judgement proof AKA

A new company - STD, likely with several layers of corporate shielding, is already starting to float its name in the established communities of both AKA and AGD.

:D


Shell corporations will shield a lot. However when in patent litigation it's a different story. I know TK isn't facing Micro- so-ft like I am. I was recently served papers by their attorneys for 40 million dollars. Mind you I never made close to that exploiting their emails. In fact I didn't even make 1/10th of that... I had everything under tax shelters, corportate bubbles... trusts... you name it... but guess what... they sued them all and as I bankrupted them they came after me personally.

I beleive that TK will definitely come back. And you can beleive this TK , I'll buy whatever you come out with.

[Target Practice]

I beleive that TK will definitely come back. And you can beleive this TK , I'll buy whatever you come out with.

I will too. Unless, you know, it's crap.

[SCpoloRicker]

Ready for wild rumors to start flying

TK leaves the established and not judgement proof AGD

Shortly thereafter the top designers and engineers of AKA leave the established and not judgement proof AKA

A new company - STD, likely with several layers of corporate shielding, is already starting to float its name in the established communities of both AKA and AGD.

:D

submits resume for Marketing Director at STD, Inc.

Geez, Rinaldo, what kind of SW do you make? Balmer must be pissed.

Lohman: fight you for it :p

[Lohman446]

submits resume for Marketing Director at STD, Inc.

Geez, Rinaldo, what kind of SW do you make? Balmer must be pissed.

Lohman: fight you for it :p


:) Sure. Understand that I have a black belt in Kenpo



















And I am normally within reach of my .45

[hitech]

Does anyone else think that the latest nullification of part of the WDP patent is affecting TK's thoughts about his future? :D

[Rinaldo]

submits resume for Marketing Director at STD, Inc.

Geez, Rinaldo, what kind of SW do you make? Balmer must be pissed.

Lohman: fight you for it :p


WHat kind of SW?
I'm assuming Salary and if that's the Question that's not something I'm comfortable answering.

Please clear up what SW means and I'll answer it if I am incorrect.

As for applying for a job at AGD. I'd be honored to work with AGD in a marketing campaign, either in contextual marketing which is my next business venture, or in teaching them a couple tricks in Viral marketing online. However I'm 23 and I have worked for myself for the last 4 years and I've done pretty well at it. I don't miss nor do I plan to work for anyone again.

[Chronobreak]

Does anyone else think that the latest nullification of part of the WDP patent is affecting TK's thoughts about his future? :D

hitec, guess i missed that what part was considered null and void?....

[Target Practice]

Need a central CA coast dealer?

;)

[Rinaldo]

Need a central CA coast dealer?

;)


Need more online pressence period.

I know the guys at the 4 local shops in Miami have no clue about mags.
You have countless online stores with 0 mag products.
I know (and I love ) that AGD has tried to control modifications due to the simple fact that they make such a high quality product nothing is required short of asthetics.

Price breaks or cash incentives to online dealers might help get AGD back online and in stores. Also banner swaps would work as I know they work in the profession I'm in. Trade a banner on say IISports.com for a banner on your website on the bottom. Even a rotation banner which is an easy HTML code.

Sponsor teams, specifically sponsor "Non Electro tournaments" and set up fund raising games. I can count 20-35 sub fortune 500 companies that would donate a considerable amount of money.


How's your family doing TK? You enjoying structuring your PB take over *cough Cough* I mean your vacation?

[SCpoloRicker]

WHat kind of SW?
I'm assuming Salary and if that's the Question that's not something I'm comfortable answering.

Please clear up what SW means and I'll answer it if I am incorrect.

As for applying for a job at AGD. I'd be honored to work with AGD in a marketing campaign, either in contextual marketing which is my next business venture, or in teaching them a couple tricks in Viral marketing online. However I'm 23 and I have worked for myself for the last 4 years and I've done pretty well at it. I don't miss nor do I plan to work for anyone again.

SW=Software. I ASSumed that because MS was getting litigous, you had stepped on one of their Software suites toes...

I'm actually an Account Exec with a major firm, and wouldn't mind hearing a bit about what you do. SOE, I'm assuming.

Oh, I was implying I'm shipping out my resume ;)

/Lohman: I happen to be wearing a brown belt at the moment, and I have a Colt .45 in the fridge. :p

[Rinaldo]

SW=Software. I ASSumed that because MS was getting litigous, you had stepped on one of their Software suites toes...

I'm actually an Account Exec with a major firm, and wouldn't mind hearing a bit about what you do. SOE, I'm assuming.

Oh, I was implying I'm shipping out my resume ;)


I was using a custom PHP script and I was doing a lot of email marketing at the time specifically targetting MSN and Hotmail as well as yahoo and a couple others. We had hired 40 programmers to break whatever spam filters they tried and create and they could usually do it within a 12 hr time frame.
I was greedy and my partner wasn't he stepped out and 4 months later I had microsoft suing me alone. Problem was during our seperation between my partner and I, I had tried to split the various corporations in order to help him liquidate, so when I was sued I was caught with my pants down.

Patent wise I have fought long and hard against Acacia specifically regarding their obscene patent over online video streaming.

Sure if you' d like to talk SEO or online marketing I'd love to chat. I prefer ICQ or IM over telephone because I can handle 30 conversation at one time.

AIM: ABCRinaldo

[ApexAZ]

I was using a custom PHP script and I was doing a lot of email marketing at the time specifically targetting MSN and Hotmail as well as yahoo and a couple others. We had hired 40 programmers to break whatever spam filters they tried and create and they could usually do it within a 12 hr time frame.
I was greedy and my partner wasn't he stepped out and 4 months later I had microsoft suing me alone. Problem was during our seperation between my partner and I, I had tried to split the various corporations in order to help him liquidate, so when I was sued I was caught with my pants down.

Patent wise I have fought long and hard against Acacia specifically regarding their obscene patent over online video streaming.

Sure if you' d like to talk SEO or online marketing I'd love to chat. I prefer ICQ or IM over telephone because I can handle 30 conversation at one time.

AIM: ABCRinaldo


Good. Spam sucks. Unless I'm misreading that.

[SCpoloRicker]

Good. Spam sucks. Unless I'm misreading that.

While I understand your opinion, SEO, or Search Engine Optimization, isn't really spam. Now, one could question the "spam filter cracking," but the man has a right to perform services that the market will support.

Ronaldo: I am unfortunately nowhere near your level of tech background. I am just background familiar with a lot of what you deal with. I handle customization, targeting, and tracking of DM campaigns for a major credit conglomerate.

[ApexAZ]

That's fine and really I don't even understand most of that jargon, but I see spam filter cracking and I see email and it immediately pisses me off.

But whatever :) I just know personally, I have never and will never buy anything that comes to my inbox w/out my initial approval.

[Lohman446]

That's fine and really I don't even understand most of that jargon, but I see spam filter cracking and I see email and it immediately pisses me off.

But whatever :) I just know personally, I have never and will never buy anything that comes to my inbox w/out my initial approval.


Me either, nor am I involved in SPAM in any form, however as a marketting tool it is very effective and may have proven very very good for society as a whole if it were not for the fraud that some SPAM resulted in.

SPAM is very cheap to send and receive when compared to almost every other form of advertising - as such you need a VERY small percentage to respond to it to be profitable, a smaller percentage than any other form of traditional advertising.

SPAM (in its e-mail form) can be very good at communicating ideas, in fact the "small print" can be made more plain because you are paying so little per printed line - we are talking very miniscule amounts only worth even considering the cost of when considered in major quantities.

SPAM can give you the opportunity to compare and contrast products at your leasure, rather than trying to compare often misleading advertising on radio and television. Because it is relatively inexpensive much more detail can be giving than almost any other form of advertising - even brochures that you pick up from someone as there is no printing cost.

SPAM could have a lot of benefits, however scams and tricks have made it less useable than it could be... so have attempts to block it in services. We have, with some cause, demonized this form of communication. I turn off all SPAM guards - I am not paying AOL $20 + a month to filter my mail for me. I will grant that it can be annoying in your in box, but I personally find commercials at dramatic parts in shows much more annoying then having to press the delete button a dozen times on my mail box.

Do I think SPAM should be cheap / free to send. Not at all, I think that those sending it should burden the costs of sending it, and allow the ISPs to profit from it. However, the costs of sending it, and reasonable profits from that cost (to the ISP) could be had for much much less than traditional advertising.

You all do note that AOL blocks SPAM... but you cannot open your mailbox (under normal settings) without seeing a banner add across the bottom of it - AOL sends pop ups to its subscribers. The welcome window, that you cannot fully close, holds more adds. When AOL wants to communicate with you, they send mass e-mails. AOL knows the advantage of SPAM and its derivitives, they and there partners are just trying to control who can, with no sinister motive, use those same ideas to communicate with people.

Edit: This discussion continued http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1821384#post1821384 here as I inadvertently (sp) threatened to derail this thread.

[Target Practice]

Holy thread derailment, Batman!

You know what I love? On-topic discussion.

[Rinaldo]

I did not intend to take this thread so far off subject. If you'd like to continue this conversation further I'd love to explain and go over some business models.

Lohman you're absolutely right when we started with our Email marketing it was completely legitamate and back in 2000 the CTR was out of this world.
We were buying lists left and right and the millions we were making we reinvested in our own dedicated hosting, Unique IPs, Block Ips and so fourth.
We eventually had what you'd call a fairly good Idea of what we were doing. The problem that occured with our marketing campaigns wasn't that it was illegal. In fact according to CanSpam passed by the US congress, in 2003 and enacted in 2004, I could continue emailing for the rest of my days. We made a couple greedy mistakes and that's what caught up to us.

Apex, what's ironic is that I have letters of appreciation/recommendation from Fortune 500 companies for advertising their products, Awards I've received from Marketing Publications and I've even been on the phone with Microsofts email marketing dept. and been thanked (funny story is Bill gat es at MS developed an idea to create a free email program called "Hotmail" which was meant to openly allow and not filter spam in hopes to promote and get more members to signup for MSN which had spam blockers/filters built in) Now I'm being sued.

WIth our new project I'm really proud to say we don't exploint anyone we are 100% legal and we're doing incredibly well with our software. I'd like to speak to you sometime and get together for, if not business, paintball at the very least.

[luke]

Actually Spam is my favorite type of advertising from a consumer view point.
Here are a few of the reasons why:
1.I don’t have to pay to have it taken away; my garbage can fills up weekly without any help from “junk” mail.

2.It does not contribute to our over flowing garbage dumps all over the world.

3.It does not call me after 10 pm, waking up from a dead sleep.

4.It doesn’t constantly call, day after day, interrupting absolutely everything, especially after you have completely ran them threw the ringer, degrading their very existence and calling them every name in the book.

5.The best reason is it simply goes away with a delete button. :headbang:

[ApexAZ]

I've had hotmail for around 10 years now, I'm almost positive Microsoft bought it about 5 years ago.

Anyways, perhaps you have good intentions. It doesn't mean I like the 696734056893240365 messages I get in my inbox almost daily.

Yeah, this was derailed. Sorry all!

[REDRT]

I started the thread and I found the last few posts on spam ads interesting. In a abstract way maybe spam and AGD future goes hand in hand?

[jewie27]

Join a company that was going around sueing people??? Why???

[Lohman446]

Join a company that was going around sueing people??? Why???

Not all law suits are wrong. In theory a lawyer is not supposed to push through a suit that has no basis in the law. I highly doubt the lawyer that handled it said - Adam, Billy, your clearly BSing on this but thats ok. I expect he looked at the legally obtained patent that was part of PVI (though added to I understand that), looked at those in violation of that patent, and decided that they were legally right to sue.

[Lohman446]

PS - everyone who pointed out that a discussion of SPAM was not what this thread was about - you are very right, sometimes in my ramblings I get a little (or a lot) off topic. So I started another thread in FC to discuss it, I think it might prove to be an interesting discussion.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1821384#post1821384

[hitech]

hitec, guess i missed that what part was considered null and void?....

SMART PARTS PREVAILS AGAINST NPF
Smart Parts, Inc. has succeeded in invalidating the remaining patent claims asserted by NPF, Ltd. against Smart Parts in the United States District Court for the District of Wisconsin. On Wednesday, February 23, 2005, the Honorable Judge John C. Shabaz granted Smart Parts’ renewed motion for judgment as a matter of law and ordered that each of the asserted claims of NPF’s U.S. Patent Nos. 6,311,682 and 6,615,814 “are invalid for obviousness pursuant to 35 U.S.C. § 103.” An amended judgment has been entered “dismissing [NPF’s] complaint and all claims contained therein with prejudice” and awarding costs to Smart Parts.
This decision and judgment reverses the earlier jury award of damages and removes the injunction against Smart Parts. In reaching his decision, Judge Shabaz noted that “[t]he evidence was overwhelming that one of ordinary skill in the art would have known and been motivated to employ a reprogrammable microprocessor” in a paintball gun, and that “the inescapable conclusion [was therefore] that it was obvious to combine the elements” that NPF claimed as their invention.
As a result of this decision, Smart Parts’ paintball guns can continue to be manufactured and sold without fear of violating these patents in both their pre-December 2004 and subsequent configurations.
Dealers and individuals interested in purchasing Smart Parts’ products should contact Smart Parts at 1 (724) 539-2660.

http://flagpull.com/viewarticle.php?aid=493

[Automaggin2]

Anyway, I think Tom is really hinting on something big.




/preorder...black to red fade