Is it just me or has AGD's quality gone to crap

[mihanikos]

2 years ago I bought a SS Retro valve for my minimag. Swapped valve, never had a problem with a leak or anything from day one, valve operated flawless, never even had to change an o-ring. Level 10 comes out, I buy and install never had a prob. Now the the X-valves are released and I buy a blue one with ULE trigger to match me blue/chrome gun. Actually I bought a RT custom and took the valve out and put in my mini, and sold the Retro valve and the rest of the rt to my friend. From day one I have problems. First the trigger rod on the gun wasn't set right and the gun wouldn't fire. Then the ULT isn't adjusted right the gun won't even fire, so I add shims gun at least fires now. Then I notice a leak out the small side hole. so I change reg pin orings. Then I develop a leak down the barrel, ok normal for level 10 so I go down a carrier size. All this b4 I even have a chance to use the gun in a game! I have been tinkering with the ULT to get it to my liking and now I'm leaking out the side hole again. I'm ready to throw this valve thru the front door of AGD! And from what I've read I'm not the first person with this problem. My bro-in-law bought an Xvalve himself and has nothing but problems also. AGD tells him that the anno might have flaked off and contaminated the orings. What!! Is that kind of quality acceptable for the price we pay for their products? We have been using mags for about 11 years now, so we r not new to the product. What is the deal? I've just about had it with this valve, I wish i could get my SS valve back!

[brain.68]

good story. my mag is down right now too its either a x valve problem or a sear thing so im gona get it checked out tomorrow. but this the first big prob i have ever had withi it after a year.

[REDRT]

My brothers RTP Custom the x valve has to be loose to fire consistantly. He likes it, but it isn't right. It isn't the valve though. With the emag valve in it does the same thing. Body or rail fit I think. It is no where near the craftsmanship of the Classic RT.

[Muzikman]

Problem is that as you get more function, you reliabilty goes down.

An original classic mag was very simple and it worked well. There was no adjustments needed besides velocity.

Then the level 10 comes out. Just to get it to fire there is some playing to do and to get it to actually work as a anti-chop bolt there is tuning that is needed.

Then comes the ULT. Again to get it to work you now have to play and tune your gun.

To make their products better, AGD made their products more complicated. Gone are the days when you could build a mag from scratch and be on the field in 30 minutes. Gome are the days when if you had a simple leak you just replaced an oring.

Does this make a mag bad, no, it just makes it more user tunable. A person could easilly slap a level 10 bolt and stock on/off in an xvalve and go play and never have a problem with their valve.

Now, I would not blame the xvalve for any problems. It's simply an aluminum version of an old Retro valve. I would have ever blame the ULT or level 10.

As for the problem with the gun not shooting with the vlave tightened down.

A. Is the rail bushing there?
B. Is it an after market (non-AGD) rail or gripframe?

For years the use of non AGD parts have caused problems. There are a lot of aftermarket parts now for the mags and in my mind most are of high quility, but if an aftermarket part is causing the problem, you can not blame AGD for that. If it is an AGD part and it has been unaltered, I say send it back to AGD and let them take a look and replace any defective parts.

[REDRT]

.

As for the problem with the gun not shooting with the vlave tightened down.

A. Is the rail bushing there?
B. Is it an after market (non-AGD) rail or gripframe?

For years the use of non AGD parts have caused problems. There are a lot of aftermarket parts now for the mags and in my mind most are of high quility, but if an aftermarket part is causing the problem, you can not blame AGD for that. If it is an AGD part and it has been unaltered, I say send it back to AGD and let them take a look and replace any defective parts.

Sure thing on A&B. Put the Emags Karta rail on it and it's normal. Just the stock RTP rail must be dicked up from the factory. By the way most any mag can be put together in under 30min. The most common problem is still just an o-ring.

[68_Classic]

By the way most any mag can be put together in under 30min. The most common problem is still just an o-ring.


i agree..

[behemoth]

I love how the kids with a few posts are contridicting MUZIKMAN.

Look at the guys post count, hes not just a jerk-off, he knows whats up.

[Tunaman]

That sounds like a bad rail. Just toss another rail on there and see if it works. Just send the other one back to AGD. I am sure Dave will give you another one. Call them. ;)

[REDRT]

That sounds like a bad rail. Just toss another rail on there and see if it works. Just send the other one back to AGD. I am sure Dave will give you another one. Call them. ;)

It has reasently a different rail on it now. Flung the crap one.

[REDRT]

I love how the kids with a few posts are contridicting MUZIKMAN.

Look at the guys post count, hes not just a jerk-off, he knows whats up.

Just because someone doesn't have alot of posts doesn't mean they are a kid. ;)

[mihanikos]

good point RT, and I know that the Xvalve is an aluminum version of the retro, my point is that from that time till now, the quality has changed, don't know exactly when but it did. The RT ULE i bought didn't fire from day one! How could they sell me a gun that they didn't test? I called and they sent me a new sear, the new sear didn't work either so I figure it has to be in the rail, cause the valve fired in another gun and my retro wouldn't fire in the RT. I see a lot more mags breaking down during play that I ever have b4. In the 11 years of owning and playing with mags it isn't until now that I see so many oring failures, or misbuilt products or repeat failures. Cmon i had to replace the reg pin orings b4 I could even play with the gun and after 1 game I have to replace them again. And muzikman no offense, but the xvalve is not that complicated, neither is the lvl 10 or the ULT, it is just pneumatics, maybe to the every day lay person it could be complicated. I am a Ford Master Tech and understand pneumatics, hydraulics, electronics, etc.. very well. My prob is not with the design, it is with the quality of the materials and customer service.

[Tunaman]

good point RT, and I know that the Xvalve is an aluminum version of the retro, my point is that from that time till now, the quality has changed, don't know exactly when but it did. The RT ULE i bought didn't fire from day one! How could they sell me a gun that they didn't test? I called and they sent me a new sear, the new sear didn't work either so I figure it has to be in the rail, cause the valve fired in another gun and my retro wouldn't fire in the RT. I see a lot more mags breaking down during play that I ever have b4. In the 11 years of owning and playing with mags it isn't until now that I see so many oring failures, or misbuilt products or repeat failures. Cmon i had to replace the reg pin orings b4 I could even play with the gun and after 1 game I have to replace them again. And muzikman no offense, but the xvalve is not that complicated, neither is the lvl 10 or the ULT, it is just pneumatics, maybe to the every day lay person it could be complicated. I am a Ford Master Tech and understand pneumatics, hydraulics, electronics, etc.. very well. My prob is not with the design, it is with the quality of the materials and customer service.Well i have to disagree with you on that last point you made. AGD's parts are of the highest quality available. Even the orings are the best that they make. I suspect that if you are having to change the orings after one game then either you are setting it up wrong or you got all defective parts...which is highly unlikely. I got the same parts you do and I am not seeing the problems. These orings last for years! Maybe I can set it up for you if you like. Send it here. ;)

[mihanikos]

Matter of opinion I guess, and why should I have to set up and test a brand new gun. It should be set up and tested at the factory. Normal wear and tear I can deal with, but the experience that I've had with the amount of money I spent is inexcusable. And the issue is not even with setup, it's with parts that keep failing

[REDRT]

My brother has had his X valve for almost a year. Though we haven't had any failure with it yet. In my opinion I don't see it holding up like the SS valves. For a couple of oz's and some different colors I don't see the need to rpl the emag valve.

[White_Noise]

good point RT, and I know that the Xvalve is an aluminum version of the retro, my point is that from that time till now, the quality has changed, don't know exactly when but it did. The RT ULE i bought didn't fire from day one! How could they sell me a gun that they didn't test? I called and they sent me a new sear, the new sear didn't work either so I figure it has to be in the rail, cause the valve fired in another gun and my retro wouldn't fire in the RT. I see a lot more mags breaking down during play that I ever have b4. In the 11 years of owning and playing with mags it isn't until now that I see so many oring failures, or misbuilt products or repeat failures. Cmon i had to replace the reg pin orings b4 I could even play with the gun and after 1 game I have to replace them again. And muzikman no offense, but the xvalve is not that complicated, neither is the lvl 10 or the ULT, it is just pneumatics, maybe to the every day lay person it could be complicated. I am a Ford Master Tech and understand pneumatics, hydraulics, electronics, etc.. very well. My prob is not with the design, it is with the quality of the materials and customer service.


did you order directly from AGD? was there no chrono slip inside the package?

also, ive had no greater customer service than ive gotten from AGD. call them up and either talk to a tech, or call them up and send your marker in.

my bet is user error here, not to downplay anyone's intelligence or anything, but thats just what is seems like to me. ive never heard of anyone having these kinds of problems with any agd product before.

[BlackVCG]

The o-rings on the reg. valve pin do tend to lose their seal and cause the leak out the side hole more often on X-Valves than SS RT valves. I believe this is because the difference in the X-Valve being anodized and the SS RT valve not.

The simple fix is to put a bit of silicone grease, Dow33/55, etc. on the o-rings and reassembling the reg. valve pin.

But as Muzikman said, the more things you add to your gun (ULT, LX, etc.) the more variables you have and things to mess around with to get working properly.

Go buy a cocker brand new out of the box and tell me it works perfectly.

[REDRT]

The o-rings on the reg. valve pin do tend to lose their seal and cause the leak out the side hole more often on X-Valves than SS RT valves. I believe this is because the difference in the X-Valve being anodized and the SS RT valve not.

The simple fix is to put a bit of silicone grease, Dow33/55, etc. on the o-rings and reassembling the reg. valve pin.


That is interesting info. Aarons Xvalve has developed a slight leak. It isn't the lvl10 or the on/off. Sound like it is coming from the side. I bet it just might be what your talking about. We'll have too check this out.
The classic rt was bought new in 97 the only thing different now as far as the valve it has lvl10, and a new reg piston assm. The rest of the orings have never been rpl or have ever failed. It has been just a rock solid marker for me.

[Lohman446]

good point RT, and I know that the Xvalve is an aluminum version of the retro, my point is that from that time till now, the quality has changed, don't know exactly when but it did.

Anyone else think the degradation of quality came about the point that they switched to aluminum for major components?

[REDRT]

Anyone else think the degradation of quality came about the point that they switched to aluminum for major components?

That is how I see it. But one of the biggest grips with mags was they're heavy, boo hoo! So what was AGD to do? Went to aluminum. People still think they are heavy when really they're not. As far as the valves go we didn't gain much. I wish we could have different colored SS valves. Titainium would be cool, but could you imagin the cost of that! :eek: Not mention the difficulty in producing it.

[peewee]

Personally haven’t had to many issues. I don’t believe that the production quality has taken much of a hit sadly having to change base materials to maintain competitive with prices etc is a issue faced buy AGD. I feel that the products are still some of the best out there. Everyone that has posted in this thread has hit the nail on the head. The markers are now not as user friendly as they were but overall performance issues that the players pointed out have been addressed. :headbang:

[hitech]

...I don't see it holding up like the SS valves. For a couple of oz's and some different colors I don't see the need to rpl the emag valve.


:hail:

I don't have an XValve on my eMag. And it's not because of the cost...

[paint magnet]

To quote Craig Palmer,

"The closer we time the marker to the edge, the easier it can fall off and cause a malfunction."

and

"The more you mess with it, the more you will have to mess with it."