The ION and its effect on resale....

[punkncat]

I have been looking, through the classifieds and have noticed that the introduction of this marker has completly gutted resale on most everything. Its really quite amazing how good a price you can pick up some GREAT past year models right now.

Its like everyone has caught this bug to get the Ion, and to come up with the $300 they need are willing to loose insane amounts of money selling great(high end) gear to get one. I realize that it is a great price on an entry level tourney marker, but people are acting like this thing is made of gold and the best thing available.

On the other hand you have every noob in paintball trying to get what they paid out of their entry level markers to "upgrade" to the Ion. Asking $300 for Tippys and Spyder packages, etc....

It will be nice when after a minute the new wears off, people take off their blinders and really start recognizing what they are getting into. Hopefully they will stop gutting the market and hurting EVERYONE with these low resale prices, or taking up space asking rediculous prices for stuff that isn't worth it....

[TeamNausea]

Good gun GREAT price. But i do hope that it dosent hurt resale for long

[WingMan13]

Yep, I saw this coming. If other companies follow SP with a "cheap, high end, saturday night special" we are gonna see some big changes in the resale game. Hell, think about how much a used ION would go for!

[TeamNausea]

Well but that would lead to better guns at low-end prices so other then resale its a very good thing to the consumers and that is too if they are looking used

[punkncat]

I can't say that its not feature packed at a great price, but to say that its a good gun really remains to be seen.

I just feel like for all they are offering there has to be some issue with lasting quality, dependability over time, something. I know that the lowered milling/build cost makes a good deal of the difference, but the saying "you get what you pay for" is true time and time again. I just don't see these things holding up long. And really, due to what they are doing to my investments in paintball, I hope they don't.

[BeaverEater]

When all the electric, cheap spyders/clones came out, resale was hurt for a little while also but that changed right away.

[Miscue]

I have a feeling we're going to see more markers that are very good at this price range. And they will continue to get better. Little incentive to get something more expensive unless you want to piss away money on the "cool" expensive gun of the week. Retailers will love this marker - making good profit margin.

[teufelhunden]

Punk: You're still paying three hundred dollars for a machine to shoot little balls of paint. It's not like you're paying $45.. I believe that at the Ion's price it's perfectly reasonable to think that it will be a quality gun.

[Miscue]

When all the electric, cheap spyders/clones came out, resale was hurt for a little while also but that changed right away.

The cheap clones are going to be hurting a bit, with these quality budget markers.

[tony3]

Old school timmys=the way to go, get a fully uped 2k2 for 600 bucks, I love low resale when I never got a brand new gun to start with.

[Pyroboy597]

I think in the months to come the ION will impact paintball and make everything cheaper. All the other companies are seeing Smart Part's success and are probably in the process of making their own ION like guns. The prices on all guns are going to drop because people wont want to spend 1400 dollars wen they know they can get a great g un for only 300. Givin time, i think prices on everything will drop by atleast 10%.

[Miscue]

I think in the months to come the ION will impact paintball and make everything cheaper. All the other companies are seeing Smart Part's success and are probably in the process of making their own ION like guns. The prices on all guns are going to drop because people wont want to spend 1400 dollars wen they know they can get a great g un for only 300. Givin time, i think prices on everything will drop by atleast 10%.

I think we're always going to have the ridiculously expensive stuff - you're paying for mill work and the psychological advantage. But I think what's going to happen is, there's going to eventually be little distinction between a $300 marker and a $1400 marker as far as performance goes.

[JimmyBeam]

OMG stop crying and suck it up. SO your going to have to eat the cost of a marker you paid too much for. The Ion is a very nice marker, and the 300 dolalr price tag makes it even better.

[Glickman]

OMG stop crying and suck it up. SO your going to have to eat the cost of a marker you paid too much for. The Ion is a very nice marker, and the 300 dolalr price tag makes it even better.

haha yea.


maybe some people plan to keep it past a year. i do. hell, im getting another one. i plan on keeping it till they hit their 100,000 mile mark.



bye bye shocker and matrix, hello ion twins :D

[Pyroboy597]

Question, Are they really THAT good? im just curious

[nt2004]

The one thing that gets me is the little kids who come on the forums and the b/s/t threads and complain that they could go get an ion for the price you are selling your marker for.

[punkncat]

OMG stop crying and suck it up. SO your going to have to eat the cost of a marker you paid too much for. The Ion is a very nice marker, and the 300 dolalr price tag makes it even better.

You know, I suppose I am crying. I like to know that when I make an investment in a quality product that I should be able to recoup a reasonable return on the product later. I hate to see bad resale, but it troubles me even more when the manufacturer guts their OWN product line. As a result its gutted everyone else. We haven't even seen the effect of that yet. In many ways its good for new customers, but it screws all the people who have bought in before.

[JimmyBeam]

it cant be high prices forever, with competition, and new innovations, the price of quality markers was going to eventually come down. this was going to happen sooner or later, it just happened sooner, and noone was ready for it

[tyrion2323]

Buy something because you want to use it, not because you want to sell it later on.

[GT]

my thoughts, because I'm cool!

I dont think the sub 300 market has the "out of the box" tourney, yet. The ion is close but not close enough, poor inline reg and crappy trigger. So you are looking at 30-50 for a new trigger and atleast 100 for an excellent inline reg, for a total 430-450. For that kind of coin you can pickup any number of great used guns or a new b2k.



I think we're always going to have the ridiculously expensive stuff - you're paying for mill work and the psychological advantage. But I think what's going to happen is, there's going to eventually be little distinction between a $300 marker and a $1400 marker as far as performance goes.

'scue,
sort of agree. The high end guns, cost differential, has a lower ROI. For example, I can buy an ion with a crappy reg and trigger, or drop an extra 600 bucks on a viking that has a great trigger, inline reg, and is nearly twice as effiecient. Compare a viking to an excal, the excal is supposed to be smoother and much more rare, but it is also about 3-400 dollars more than the viking. Some of it is bling and some isnt, its just how much you are willing to pay.

[Dryden]

I think we're always going to have the ridiculously expensive stuff - you're paying for mill work and the psychological advantage. But I think what's going to happen is, there's going to eventually be little distinction between a $300 marker and a $1400 marker as far as performance goes.
I had the same thought. I imagine the Ion will go the way of the Autococker. You purchase the internals of a functional marker at a relatively good price, but ultimately you have a million-and-one options for aftermarket parts to "trick out" the Ion. Most of them will likely be placebos, but they'll all still sell.

Today you go buy a $300 Ion, in two months you go back to SP and buy a pretty CNC aluminum body for another $300 because you want your Ion to be 'distinguished.' Before you realize it, you're nickel-and-dimed back to a $1000 marker that isn't functionally different from the $300 stock you began with.

[JimmyBeam]

seriously....

a viking is twice as effecient? i heard they were good, but i get 12-1300 shots off a 68/45, will a viking really get over a whole case on one fill?

[dolphin1823]

You know, I suppose I am crying. I like to know that when I make an investment in a quality product that I should be able to recoup a reasonable return on the product later. I hate to see bad resale, but it troubles me even more when the manufacturer guts their OWN product line. As a result its gutted everyone else. We haven't even seen the effect of that yet. In many ways its good for new customers, but it screws all the people who have bought in before.

I’m sure we’ve all taken our lumps, I know I have. In early 2002 I bought a brand new Shocker for around $650, then mid 2002 I heard Smart Parts was coming out with a brand new, redesigned Shocker. 8 months later, before the 03 even came out I sold the 02 Shocker with some upgrades for $400. It sucks. :cry:

[BeaverEater]

This is why i buy all my guns used. I usually dont lose anything on them, and sometimes make some money on them. I dont think the ion is going to drastically cut the prices of any gun. I think of it more as a BKO. It might lower prices a little, but hopefully it will cause gun makers to come up with some new technology.

[kylyo123456]

Im still waiting for stinking paint to drop in price

[The Spanish Inquisition]

Anyone know what country ions are being made in? Is SP outsourceing to Taiwan/Mylasia yet?

[kurama]

You guys have it bad? Us Impulse owners are taking the worst of this from our already crappy resale. Probably from 70% to 40%... :(

[JaredMeier]

resales are always fluctuating. I dont think that the Ion is the main reason for the lower prices. this is the time of year that alot of people sell their gear. I think it is too early to tell, anyways. But I will say that like everyone at my local field is buying Ions..

[JimmyBeam]

right now its the Ion, 6 months from now there could be a gun that blows the Ion away and they are still charging 300 bucks

[Lohman446]

Anyone know what country ions are being made in? Is SP outsourceing to Taiwan/Mylasia yet?


Aside from the exoskeleton the ION is US made

[paint magnet]

Old school timmys=the way to go, get a fully uped 2k2 for 600 bucks, I love low resale when I never got a brand new gun to start with.

Heh, sounds funny to hear 2002 referred to as "old school." :rolleyes:

Anyway, the Ion doesn't seem to have affected the resale on Palmer's products much ;)

[yakitori]

Im not selling my guns to go buy a gun that looks plastic. I think it is a fad, and I doubt that ppl will start selling all their guns just to get an ion. Some will, maybe a lot of ppl will, but they will eventually go back to nice milling and anodizing schemes. I think ppl are talking it up too much. Hell, half the ppl I meet at the dont say very intelligent things. I actually met a guy at the field today that is selling a DM4 and a dark timmy to buy Ions. Maybe its because he plays on the SP factory team.

I havent even had the interest to shoot one really.

[Carbon]

I have been looking, through the classifieds and have noticed that the introduction of this marker has completly gutted resale on most everything. Its really quite amazing how good a price you can pick up some GREAT past year models right now.

Its like everyone has caught this bug to get the Ion, and to come up with the $300 they need are willing to loose insane amounts of money selling great(high end) gear to get one. I realize that it is a great price on an entry level tourney marker, but people are acting like this thing is made of gold and the best thing available.

On the other hand you have every noob in paintball trying to get what they paid out of their entry level markers to "upgrade" to the Ion. Asking $300 for Tippys and Spyder packages, etc....

It will be nice when after a minute the new wears off, people take off their blinders and really start recognizing what they are getting into. Hopefully they will stop gutting the market and hurting EVERYONE with these low resale prices, or taking up space asking rediculous prices for stuff that isn't worth it....


welcome to america!

[Steelrat]

I have been looking, through the classifieds and have noticed that the introduction of this marker has completly gutted resale on most everything. Its really quite amazing how good a price you can pick up some GREAT past year models right now.

Its like everyone has caught this bug to get the Ion, and to come up with the $300 they need are willing to loose insane amounts of money selling great(high end) gear to get one. I realize that it is a great price on an entry level tourney marker, but people are acting like this thing is made of gold and the best thing available.

On the other hand you have every noob in paintball trying to get what they paid out of their entry level markers to "upgrade" to the Ion. Asking $300 for Tippys and Spyder packages, etc....

It will be nice when after a minute the new wears off, people take off their blinders and really start recognizing what they are getting into. Hopefully they will stop gutting the market and hurting EVERYONE with these low resale prices, or taking up space asking rediculous prices for stuff that isn't worth it....

Huh? I havent really seen any effect on the market. There are always people willing to throw money away for the latest and greatest, but the Ion isnt a giant killer, and isnt able to really impact the sales of the good markers. What it has probably done is clobber the low-end market.

[The Action Figure]

there nice, but honestly they feel like crap when you shoot them. they can compete, and im sure they will, but you gonna have kids with no skill shooting them and thinking there all bad cause the can shoot fast. heck i dont care more faces to shoot with my ir3.

[txaggie08]

I think the ion may finaly strike the death blow to this elitist BS that been going on since......well since the first angel came into the states. Aside from the fact that paintball is the ultimate example of diminishing returns, i hate the idea of ultra expensive markers. i think you may find with the ion that "production costs" realy werent cut as much as every elitist screeming "CRAP, and its junk" have been sying. I think , as much as anything, they fiured out that selling more units at less can mean a greater net profit in a high volume market. At one time, a gun commanded 1000$+ because the market for them was small. there were an elite group who needed, and bought them. now that market is massive, and manufacturers will beginto lower prices to move more units. the only thing i hate baout the ion, its playing hell with AGD and the mag

[Steelrat]

I think the ion may finaly strike the death blow to this elitist BS that been going on since......well since the first angel came into the states. Aside from the fact that paintball is the ultimate example of diminishing returns, i hate the idea of ultra expensive markers. i think you may find with the ion that "production costs" realy werent cut as much as every elitist screeming "CRAP, and its junk" have been sying. I think , as much as anything, they fiured out that selling more units at less can mean a greater net profit in a high volume market. At one time, a gun commanded 1000$+ because the market for them was small. there were an elite group who needed, and bought them. now that market is massive, and manufacturers will beginto lower prices to move more units. the only thing i hate baout the ion, its playing hell with AGD and the mag

The Ion is a good entry-level marker, nothing more. Its not "elitist," its the truth.

[minimag03]

If the Ion is a entry level, it is a high entry level. One ws being used today at our tourney. It was as fast as all the Imps. No one has had any major problems with them either.

[Steelrat]

If the Ion is a entry level, it is a high entry level. One ws being used today at our tourney. It was as fast as all the Imps. No one has had any major problems with them either.

Fast does not equal quality. And I don't hold the impys up as the pinnacle of paintball technology ;)

[GT]

I think the ion may finaly strike the death blow to this elitist BS that been going on since......well since the first angel came into the states. Aside from the fact that paintball is the ultimate example of diminishing returns, i hate the idea of ultra expensive markers. i think you may find with the ion that "production costs" realy werent cut as much as every elitist screeming "CRAP, and its junk" have been sying. I think , as much as anything, they fiured out that selling more units at less can mean a greater net profit in a high volume market. At one time, a gun commanded 1000$+ because the market for them was small. there were an elite group who needed, and bought them. now that market is massive, and manufacturers will beginto lower prices to move more units. the only thing i hate baout the ion, its playing hell with AGD and the mag

not gonna happen,
if anything the ion is a gateway drug into faster electros, remember it is capped at 17bps and most people believe that they can shoot faster than that, hell there are people on this board that think they are faster....

[Lohman446]

not gonna happen,
if anything the ion is a gateway drug into faster electros, remember it is capped at 17bps and most people believe that they can shoot faster than that, hell there are people on this board that think they are faster....

Highlighted for emphasis. VERY FEW people can exceed 17 BPS, the Ion is a brilliant marketing move by SP.. lets look

SP brings out the Shocker and sells decently
SP brings out the Imp - a "cheap" (for its day) electro
8 billion people make upgrades for the Imp and you can buy custom Imps that are more prestigous than the Shocker - Shocker sales fall year after year.
SP redesigns the Shocker - sales sky-rocket.
Custom Imp sales fall - they exist but not to the level before the 03 Shocker.
Custom Shockers begin to exist and sell.
SP brings out the Nerve - high end to compete with the DM4 in price. Nerve sales are abysmal.
SP drops the price on the Nerve - people still are not buying them over a Shocker.
SP, unable to compete with Dye in the Matrix price range... goes the other route.
SP introduces the Ion - sales of the Ion far exceed anyone's expectations and it will likely take SP most of the season to catch up with production.

What's next
Custom upgrades and custom Ions are coming - allowing the Ion to compete with nearly anything out there in the ways it doesn't (I beleive funcitonally it already does)
SP will have a large share of the low and mid price range marker sales. The Nerve still will not sell against the DM.X but it doesn't matter.

What I see here is SP looking at a market and shifting with it, rather than yelling at the wind and preaching to the choir.

[GT]

What I see here is SP looking at a market and shifting with it, rather than yelling at the wind and preaching to the choir.


You would have to ask one of our marketing gurus around here, but I think making a "mid range" guns is pretty frutile. Sp is changing the market, just taking advantage. You make more money by offering a low end cheap gun that everyone can afford or by making an expesnive high end low volume gun, this is the current problem with AGD. Where does a 4-500 mech fall into the mix? Right in bewteen the low end electoros, bko ion and the high end stuff, b2k, matrix, cyborg, shocker. Personally I dont think the mag, as we know it, will survive in this enviroment.

[Lohman446]

You would have to ask one of our marketing gurus around here, but I think making a "mid range" guns is pretty frutile. Sp is changing the market, just taking advantage. You make more money by offering a low end cheap gun that everyone can afford or by making an expesnive high end low volume gun, this is the current problem with AGD. Where does a 4-500 mech fall into the mix? Right in bewteen the low end electoros, bko ion and the high end stuff, b2k, matrix, cyborg, shocker. Personally I dont think the mag, as we know it, will survive in this enviroment.

My point is, SP has to be disappointed with the Nerve sales... so they have gone an entire differetn direction. Why did the Nerve sales suck so much? I don't know. I am sure many people at SP want to compain that it was stupid paintball players fault, but rather than complaining... they did something revolutionary (for them).

[Baby Huey]

My point is, SP has to be disappointed with the Nerve sales... so they have gone an entire differetn direction. Why did the Nerve sales suck so much? I don't know. I am sure many people at SP want to compain that it was stupid paintball players fault, but rather than complaining... they did something revolutionary (for them).

So do you believe that the ION concept was thought up after the release of ther Nerve (what was that last June). I dont really know but I think that the ION has been in the works for more than 8 months. But if there is somebody from SP in the forum they may know different. Just an opinion. God Bless.

Baby Huey

[Lohman446]

So do you believe that the ION concept was thought up after the release of ther Nerve (what was that last June). I dont really know but I think that the ION has been in the works for more than 8 months. But if there is somebody from SP in the forum they may know different. Just an opinion. God Bless.

Baby Huey

Good point on timeline. The Ion appears to be very well tested. However, I will note that there is nothing new idea wise on it - the spool valve is minially different from what I can tell from the Shocker and the electronics are very simplistic in nature. I think it could have been reasonably quickly thrown together, but I do see your point in that too, it would have been an effort.

[Baby Huey]

Good point on timeline. The Ion appears to be very well tested. However, I will note that there is nothing new idea wise on it - the spool valve is minially different from what I can tell from the Shocker and the electronics are very simplistic in nature. I think it could have been reasonably quickly thrown together, but I do see your point in that too, it would have been an effort.

I dont know very much about the internals. I have my uped Shocker and then I just ordered the RPG Paradigm. That is my only experience w/ the guns. I cannot wait for the Paradigm to get here. I have heard great things about the mags. I am sure that you are all correct about the upgrades. I bought my Shocker thinking, great I have a higher end gun now I am all set, then, feedneck, detents, grips, drop, snatch grip, ASA w/gauge, trigger, board, different hopper to keep up. I am sure that the ION will be the same way. Take care.

Baby Huey

[DiRTyBuNNy]

I actually spoke with someone at Smart Part at the LA Open a few weeks back and they told me this about the Ion's design. We all know that the shocker took forever and a day to come out. The real reason for the delay was that SP had come up with a design but couldn't get the gun up to their "standards" (i.e. it wasn't fast enough). They went back to the drawing board redesigning the whole gun...what came out of those design sessions was the "new" shocker that we all know and love. SP had shelved the original "new" shocker design but later they found a way to make the gun faster (it now tops out at 17) and brought it out at a low price point....he might be pulling the whole story out of his behind...but that's what I was told (I don't remember his name...he's the old gray-haired guy that works for SP)

[Baby Huey]

If thats true info then the ION should be a great gun. If it met all the standards except the speed then it should be great, just capped at 17. Thanks for the story.

[slade]

seriously....

a viking is twice as effecient? i heard they were good, but i get 12-1300 shots off a 68/45, will a viking really get over a whole case on one fill?
yes.


What's next
Custom upgrades and custom Ions are coming - allowing the Ion to compete with nearly anything out there in the ways it doesn't (I beleive funcitonally it already does)
SP will have a large share of the low and mid price range marker sales. The Nerve still will not sell against the DM.X but it doesn't matter.
i see some new cheap custom shells coming out, and maybe a few upgrades, but not much besides that. its a low end gun. how many people really dump $500 into their spyder? a few do, but most sell it and buy a higher end marker.

[Lohman446]

yes.


i see some new cheap custom shells coming out, and maybe a few upgrades, but not much besides that. its a low end gun. how many people really dump $500 into their spyder? a few do, but most sell it and buy a higher end marker.

How many people dumped $500 into Imps - this is not a Spyder boys, its above the $200 tag line and its made by SP. How many $800+ Imps are out there (Adreneline, Strange, Rat, etc.)? A lot.

I question how low end it is - I have played with it on tournament practice days and not felt overly outgunned. Its cheap, theres no doubt about that

There are two lines of thought on the Ion - one that it is a cheap entry level marker with no place in the "real" tournament scene. The other that it is cheap and fully capable of keeping up with anything. I think the truth lies somewhere in between.

[Cameo]

Someone mentioned that the dealers would be making a nice profit off of the IONs. What is considered a good profit. I was speaking with a dealer from my local area who was talking about fronting a team for IAO with all IONs. He said you could not beat the $225 dealer price for a nice elctro like that. So according to everyone here they are retailing for $300, that is only a $75 profit for dealers. To me that does not seem like a nice profit. :confused:

Seriously, I had to decline the offer to play on this particular perswons team of IONs (even if he does "need" a female player for the mix) I am still against SP, and it does not matter that they are virtually made in my back yard. :nono:

[NoLifeLeft]

I remember hearing that the first gen. "new" shocker had to be redesigned into what is on the market now because SP tried to make the new shocker fire from a closed bolt. This didn't work too well without making another dual-noid-shoebox so the "SFT" was created. If I remember correctly, the first ads and releases for the "new" shocker still referred to it as a closed bolt marker. That would also explain the huge delay. Anyone else hear this story?

[Lohman446]

Someone mentioned that the dealers would be making a nice profit off of the IONs. What is considered a good profit. I was speaking with a dealer from my local area who was talking about fronting a team for IAO with all IONs. He said you could not beat the $225 dealer price for a nice elctro like that. So according to everyone here they are retailing for $300, that is only a $75 profit for dealers. To me that does not seem like a nice profit. :confused:

Seriously, I had to decline the offer to play on this particular perswons team of IONs (even if he does "need" a female player for the mix) I am still against SP, and it does not matter that they are virtually made in my back yard. :nono:

$75 dollars in profit on a $225 investment is a ROI of 33%. Under standard business models that is well within the acceptable range. Consider the paintball model specifically and the ROI on most markers and it becomes exceptional.

[Lohman446]

I remember hearing that the first gen. "new" shocker had to be redesigned into what is on the market now because SP tried to make the new shocker fire from a closed bolt. This didn't work too well without making another dual-noid-shoebox so the "SFT" was created. If I remember correctly, the first ads and releases for the "new" shocker still referred to it as a closed bolt marker. That would also explain the huge delay. Anyone else hear this story?

SP, as far as I recall always said the Shocker FIRED like a closed bolt marker because of the seal on the front of the bolt sealing the breech area. Technically there right. ALL markers fire with the trajectory of a closed bolt marker because it makes no difference. There reasoning on why it fired like a closed bolt marker is wrong but it made for some good hype for them I guess.

[Lohman446]

Not within the consumer retail business model.

The only business models that historically survive on 20-30% margins are high volume retail outlets such as Wal-Mart or Costco.

Besides, to figure out true ROI you must factor in the other costs involved(ie overhead, and not just the cost of the marker).

Once you figure out what the accurate ROI is, that 33% ROI isnt quite as exceptional anymore ;)


I called it acceptable, not exceptional :D . Look at most paintball markers though - the $900 marker that the dealer makes $100 on sucks as far as mark-up. If I recall my retail classes correctly 30% mark-up was considered acceptable, and many had proven to be profitable under that figure.

Granted there are things you can make more on, but as far as markers go I think its reasonable. I likely used ROI incorrectly without other considerations, but the markup is reasonable.

[Rinaldo]

I called it acceptable, not exceptional :D . Look at most paintball markers though - the $900 marker that the dealer makes $100 on sucks as far as mark-up. If I recall my retail classes correctly 30% mark-up was considered acceptable, and many had proven to be profitable under that figure.

Granted there are things you can make more on, but as far as markers go I think its reasonable. I likely used ROI incorrectly without other considerations, but the markup is reasonable.


The point shouldn't be whether there's a ROI. If they make $1 off each Ion after Overhead their's an ROI. It should be whether the marker is priced efficiently. You are all right, a $1200 marker with a profit after sale of $1-300 in a proshop that probably gets 100 kids a day visiting the store isn't going to be cost productive/efficient. But Now place 50 Ions which he generates 75 on that cost 280 a piece and he sells them all in a weekend or two... now how can he complain.

On this note, anyone want to run a proshop online for me I want to start buying paint and selling it basically at cost. I hate seing kids not play PB because they can't afford paint prices and although I get paint at cost I'd like to see everyone that wants to do so also.

[phantomhitman]

i hope they affect resale on everything. dye is killing me with their overpriced, overhyped, but so cool look at me products. my name is joe, and i am a dye whore.... :(

[Baby Huey]

Hey RogueFactor, I cannot wait for my new RPG Paradigm. Off topic, sorry.

[SlartyBartFast]

On this note, anyone want to run a proshop online for me I want to start buying paint and selling it basically at cost. I hate seing kids not play PB because they can't afford paint prices and although I get paint at cost I'd like to see everyone that wants to do so also.

Ahh. Someone who doesn't understand economics.

If you only sell at cost, how are you going to cover expenses such as financing current stock, covering shipping losses, covering bad payers?

And that's assuming that you're storing any stock in your own house (and pretending that's free) and have free hosting and volunteers doing all sales follow-up.

Good luck Rinaldo...

But, I think you'll find a number of on-line retailers have already brought prices about as close to "cost" as economically feasible.

[UTDragun]

sp makes a lower lvl marker everyone barks about. angel makes the fastest pb gun ever with a huge price when almost everything is capped at 15.
...like any hopper could feed 61bps

[Conversekidz]

This is how I see the ion in the market.

Yes the ion is cheap, and yes their will still be high end markets, and its like this.


The ion is the corvette of the car world, its a high performance car/gun for the money.

Freestyles on up to egos and cyborgs are the lambo's and ferrari's of the world.


Now if you follow the car world you will know that the corvette has the same, and sometimes better performance than the exotic cars of the world. Compare a ferarri mondenia to a corvette with reguards to performance you will see the corvette is just as good, if not better of a car.

Now the corvette costs 80k the ferrari costs 250k.....


Now I ask you, if you have the money which car would you want? they both perform that same....most people will say Ferrari, they want the image it gives, and doesnt' care so much if it only performs as well as the corvette.


I think the same is going to happen to the ion. Everyone and their mother is going to have one, its going to be the next spyder. People still want to be individual and stand out from the crowd. People are still going to buy cyborgs, egos and other high end markers because of the simple reason THEY CAN.

[Blazestorm]

Ion's are awesome, I got to try one out this weekend.

It fired one shot then stopped working... yay...

[Conversekidz]

Ion's are awesome, I got to try one out this weekend.

It fired one shot then stopped working... yay...

sorry to hear that.... :tard:


but the first thing when I saw that I started laughing....

sorry bro...

[JimmyBeam]

T like this.


The ion is the corvette of the car world, its a high performance car/gun for the money.


I was thinking more of an NSX but whatever.....

[Baby Huey]

I was thinking more of an NSX but whatever.....

The NXS is one bad a** car.

[p u r e e v i l]

Ultimately, it'll hurt the paintball industry if things continue to go the way they are. Low resale means manufacturers would have to decrease the original prices to make people want their guns... less profit, loss of jobs, etc. Sound about right?

[Conversekidz]

I was thinking more of an NSX but whatever.....


My annology is better with the corvette. The NSX doesn't have the same perfomance numbers and doesn't hold its own against most exotics.

[zzbudzz]

Buy something because you want to use it, not because you want to sell it later on.
yes , buy what you want and don't worry about resale.because it seems like you can never get close to what you paid for stuff nowadays...

[Lohman446]

Ultimately, it'll hurt the paintball industry if things continue to go the way they are. Low resale means manufacturers would have to decrease the original prices to make people want their guns... less profit, loss of jobs, etc. Sound about right?


Or... less cost, more participants, more sales, more need for production, more jobs, more profit. More units sold but less profit per unit can still be more profitable.

Pricing is a tricky issue, theres a balance somewhere but it could go either way.

[JimmyBeam]

My annology is better with the corvette. The NSX doesn't have the same perfomance numbers and doesn't hold its own against most exotics.


omg what??? you may now go wash your mouth out with soap for speaking such dirty lies!!! LIES I TELL YOU LIES!!!!


heh

[Raven001]

My point is, SP has to be disappointed with the Nerve sales... so they have gone an entire differetn direction. Why did the Nerve sales suck so much? I don't know. I am sure many people at SP want to compain that it was stupid paintball players fault, but rather than complaining... they did something revolutionary (for them).

Is that a dig at a particular paintball company? ;)

[Lohman446]

Is that a dig at a particular paintball company? ;)


That was an observation and it may have been targetted ;)

It doesn't matter whose fault a lack of sales was. It is not the players that can make the changes that will sell more markers. You can complain about why something isn't selling all you want. You can point out, through hordes of testing and statistics that they are wrong. Unless you address why you are not selling in the marketplace and change with it it does you no good. If I am selling something and it is not selling... it is far more effective to change then it is to convince the buying public to change, especially if my trying to convince them involves minimal marketing and exposure. Can you change the market - sure, with enough marketing you can, its been done before, but if you are not going to market, then you better change to suit the market that exists,and quickly ebfore it changes. At least if sales is one of your top goals. Some companies exist to exist, to serve a niche market, to bring about higher quality, better thought. By all means thats fine, but don't do that and complain that the majority of the market is ignorant.. thats true in most markets.

[Conversekidz]

omg what??? you may now go wash your mouth out with soap for speaking such dirty lies!!! LIES I TELL YOU LIES!!!!


heh


Show me track numbers of the corvette getting walked all over by the NSX and i will take back my statement.

Better yet, match the NSX up against a 2005 Z06 and see who comes out on performance and cost. :headbang:

[Lohman446]

Show me track numbers of the corvette getting walked all over by the NSX and i will take back my statement.

Better yet, match the NSX up against a 2005 Z06 and see who comes out on performance and cost. :headbang:


Open road coarse involving lots of slaloms and very few straightaways? Switchbacks perhaps? The NSX is an awesome sports car, it may have some HP issues but its torque is good and its cornering very impressive

[Conversekidz]

NSX is over rated for the price.

The numbers I have been reading on the NSX give it a skid pad rating of .92 G's which don't get me wrong is a great number for handling.

The corvette is pulling a .98 G's on the pad, and it has almost double the HP and costs almost half the price.

The NSX gets worse gas millage at a 17/24 compared to the vettes 18/28

The NSX costs 89,000

the Vette costs 45,000

Now tell me how the NSX is a better car?

.http://img87.exs.cx/img87/5004/0099mm.jpg






This is back in 99 to give a C&D picture about it

[Conversekidz]

Oh and all the numbers I just posted are on a bone stock vette, not even considering the z06