Who needs to aim? Angel speeds suck.

[OmniDynmc]

While playing rec ball last Saturday at my usual field, had about 300 walk-ons and sunny skies; always a lethal combination for a fun day. I noticed, that with the advancement of science and the basic human need for excessive firing speeds, some of the game seems to be lost. It seems to me that shooting over 14 balls per second takes the guesswork and skill out of actually aiming your marker in order to hit some one. I'll explain...

My normal squad got together on the same team in an effort to totally dominate the field like we usually do. One of our squad members has an Angel Speed, which he purchased to replace his older IR something. You used to be able to hear the space between shots on his old marker, and with the new one it quite honestly sounds like on constant stream. We played a game in the afternoon and discovered a father and son in the brush waiting in ambush (now of course we couldn't see that it was a father and son, just merely targets). My friend did his usual constant stream and basically lit them up (and I'm not faulting him really they were in the brush). The poor kid must have cried for about 10 minutes while we continued to play the game around them (they weren't walking off cause the kid was screaming bloody murder and dad was trying to comfort). I'm sure he hit them a multitude of times through the brush and if they did call hit early he wouldn't have even heard it. And the ironic thing is, he didn't even have a shot, just sprayed the hell out of the bush.

Though this situation brings to mind my normal opinion of, "if you can't take the heat go back to laser tag, or hide and go seek," and, "think twice before having your young children play with adults in that setting." I can't help but think how annoying it is to have people with markers that may not have full auto, but shoot just as fast and usually via bouncing the the trigger. And typically those who shoot that fast think they are invincible and refuse to go out when hit claiming they MUST have hit you. It's unthinkable that with all those shots, you kicked their a-- by actually aiming and picking your shots wisely.

I have an E-blade Cocker so, I understand the need to shoot fast and see a steady stream of balls flying at your opponent, but these days I'm using my Mag and singling shoting and finding it much more enjoyable and fair. Hell I even bought a Sydarm and play 8 shot ball up against these Angel/Supergun freaks.

What happened to the sport of actually taking aim and shooting? Reminds me of all these techno gadgets to "enhance" game hunting and that online website that let's you remotely control a camera with a gun attached to it that allows you to shoot targets and game on a guys property. There's no "sport" in it at all.

Greg

[phantomhitman]

why does it matter? you say you like to get together and dominate the field....but you complain about fast or unfair guns..... :rolleyes: This arguement has no real answer, some people hate fast guns and others love them. Here is a question for you to think about. If your opponent is shooting 15 bps at you how are you going to win the game? Now rethink your question about the fast guns take the "skill" out of the game. You have to be faster, smarter, pick better angles, and play tighter because of these guns. I guess that does not take skill either? :confused: The sport is much faster than before, most of the time the aggressive teams win, but if they play stupid they will lose, everyone has a weakness.

You cannot lump everyone into the group of It's unthinkable that with all those shots, you kicked their a-- by actually aiming and picking your shots wisely. . Most people I know, especially the tourney players, are honest. In fact they are much faster and saying they are out than rec players. They are bad people at every field thta wipe, cheat, play on, and bounce away, But do not point fingers at a broad range of players (ex-tourney, scenario, or rec).
In this area, team-tourney-more experianced players do not play with walkons or rec players much. They either do not want us to, or we do not want to because it is unfair. I have played against little kids or father son groups were I would let a kid shoot me just so they could go brag about it. It helps the sport and does not scare the crap out of them because they have a dm5 going full bore at them.

[JaredMeier]

even with my old 10 bps shocker, I still felt like all I was doing was hosing people (10bps isnt necessarily hosing in todays terms though) ..if I was playing in a game against experienced players with better markers, who were mixed in with newer or inexperienced players (like most walk on games are), I still didnt find it necessary to unload on people . i realized that I wasnt challenging myself. so I stopped carrying a pack onto the field and just played off my hopper. I stopped shooting so much paint to the point that I wouldnt have to fill the hopper for a few games. I really liked doing that. I stopped feeling the need to spend so much on paint, and I was creating a more challenging game for myself. I even noticed that i could get more people out then some people who just shoot constantly at high ROF the whole game. that is my perspective, and people are welcome to have their own towards how they play. but there is a time and place for shooting 10-20 balls a second - on the speedball field against other speedballers (new or old ones), who are there for that kind of challenge and beating.

for walk on games that have players that havent played and dont have a marker like mine, we should take it easier on them. some of these players are only shooting 1-2 balls at you at a time, then why should you be shooting 15bps at their inexperience head? Let the newer players have more time on the field, while still trying to challenge them. Give them oppurtunities to move around and shoot people. it builds confidence and love for the game more so than if they were repeatedly hosed down. Hosed down by an uberfast electro w/ or w/out cheater boards.. to the point where they never can move and were continuously eliminated quickly, game after game.. that can alienate future players. it also can have other effects.

and maybe that is why certain players feel the need to act or be a certain way. they see that in order to be in paintball you have to be like those mean spirited individuals that dont care about anyone but themselves. if a kid is being unfairly wooped on by ill-natured egotistical and cocky players, he isn't going to have much confidence. he may have to start asserting himself in different ways. that is how it is in high school. you get tired of being picked on, so you end up going and picking on someone yourself. the "if you can't beat em, join em" out of necessity effect. the kid that gets wooped on by some player, sees how they act, then feels they must do the same. out of necessity to remain "confident", and to be a part of the sport.

so is paintball building confidence anymore? I dont know. because I am starting to see alot of unconfident kids who are only projecting this bad*** attitude in order to belong. the "high school popularity contest" politics are becoming more intwined in many aspects of this sport. fast guns and ramping boards aren't just being used for competitive reasons, kids are buying them to hide their social insecurities behind. it is one piece in the puzzle of how kids filling these roles. the fast marker is now more than ever becoming a part of an ever growing popularity contest. but not everyone with an electronic gun is this way.

I am not against people having electro's. I personally like mechs, but that is just where I come from.
but I do not like or appreciate when people use ramping boards. especially when they are playing against newer or younger players. so many people, no matter what they are doing in life, always seem to forget what it was like to be new at something. they forget where they came from. they don't see anything wrong with unnecessarily lighting up newer players. and alot of people have big egos. it is really said that those egos and bad attitudes are being fueled by cheater boards and unjust newbie kills.

[OmniDynmc]

Having never played paintball in the old pump days, I often wonder about how fun it would be to have every shot cost, and be able to actually make moves for cover on the field without running through a splat fest of "luck" and "spray and pray" shots. There aren't any pump fields, etc in my area that I know of.

Wouldn't it be wild if fields started limiting BPS to like 5-10?

Greg

[Python14]

lol, I'm sorry but this just reminded me of 5 years ago reading APG.

I'm with Phantom. I try to get with the more experienced group because I know I hated getting hosed. If I do play with newer players, I tone down my play a bit and let them get some eliminations on me.

[SlartyBartFast]

My normal squad got together on the same team in an effort to totally dominate the field like we usually do.

...

There's no "sport" in it at all.

Well, you said it best yourself. :rolleyes:

If you were interessted in "sport" and improving your skills you would either play against other squads/teams or divide yourselves up between the walk-on groups and either concentrate on gunning for each other or abandon your personal markers and use the rentals (or get yourselves pumps, or otherwise put yourselves at a technological disadvantage to the walk-ons).

For the game to be interesting to the walk-ons, rules against overshooting MUST be enforced. A field owner that doesn't get rid of players like your friend risks losing repeat business from walk-ons. They paid to play and have fun. Not necessarily play for cut-throat competition.


"if you can't take the heat go back to laser tag, or hide and go seek," and, "think twice before having your young children play with adults in that setting." .

How about the opposite: "if you don't know how to be a sportsman, don't play walk-on.", "if it's not a tournamnet, play for fun or go elsewhere.", or "If there are are children on the field, take your game down a notch or find an adults only field."

Your quotes (and many use the same sayings) are really quite disgusting. If there was a pick-up game of Football in the park or a shinny game of hockey at the rink would you full body tackle or body check a 10-12 year-old that was playing and tell them to suck it up or quit playing? :cuss:

[GT]

If you were interessted in "sport" and improving your skills you would either play against other squads/teams or divide yourselves up between the walk-on groups and either concentrate on gunning for each other or abandon your personal markers and use the rentals (or get yourselves pumps, or otherwise put yourselves at a technological disadvantage to the walk-ons).



does it really matter? It took me awhile to figure out that the difference bewteen my skill w/ and w/o an electro is that i can usually pull one guy off the break. If you play with rental's they PLAY like renters. There is a unique skill that a paintball player hones; the ability to organize the chaos. We have all played enough to know that there are times when you can barrel tag the entire other team. Although alot of players hide behind the gun.....

I say keep the guns and play with SKILLED players!

[Mr. Mouse]

yea.. i cant shoot 10 year olds i usally shoot at there feet and let someone else shoot them out, but if they do try to take me out ill shoot em in the leg :D just because im a nice person like that

[SlartyBartFast]

I say keep the guns and play with SKILLED players!

Certainly. That's your choice.

But, like a pick-up game in any sport, there is a lot of fun and enjoymet in playing for the joy of playing and sharing a good time.

And you can always get a competitive adrenaline rush in a walk-on game by bringing nothing but a couple hundred rounds and a PGP onto the field.

Regardless of anyones preference, they're a low form of :cuss: if they bring their tournament game and "light-em up" attitude onto the field against new and/or younger players.

[magman007]

all i can say, is you onkly get better if you play people or teams better than you are

[OmniDynmc]

Well, you said it best yourself. :rolleyes:
Your quotes (and many use the same sayings) are really quite disgusting. If there was a pick-up game of Football in the park or a shinny game of hockey at the rink would you full body tackle or body check a 10-12 year-old that was playing and tell them to suck it up or quit playing? :cuss:

I don't see how they are disgusting. We're talking about a high-empact sport much like football or hockey. You typically don't see a bunch of 12 years olds playing tackle football with adults, nor do you see them playing hockey with adults without severely nerfing the rules of contact.

Yet, in the world we live in, parents let their kids play with adults in Paintball and the fields allow it, they have markers like everyone else and can shoot you just as anyone else could (ironically some can even light you up with their $1200 guns). Granted if I can see the person is young, I'll surrender them or one shot them, but in the brush facial/body recognition is brought to a halt.

The point of the post really is geared towards the "sport" of shooting a constant stream of balls and flooding the field or players with a case of paint in a matter of 5 minutes vs. the skill of taking aim and using a minimal amount of paint. My personal opinion is that the "sport" of the game is lost when you have to blindly spray paint that fast (blindly meaning I'm not sure it's really possible to accurately aim in that mannor), it deminishes the fun of head on manuvers when it is effortless for a single person to keep two or more down by droping a case of paint over there heads.

Greg

Greg

[68magOwner]

playing with fast guns takes alot of skill, just in different aspects of teh game, things like playing a bunker super tight, and running/diving fast have become increasingly more important than having superb aim.

With that said, i play front and can snap small objects- pods, masks, cans, whatever with 2 shots very fast and do it very consistently, if you dont think that takes aim, your crazy, yes my marker can spew rediculious ammounts of paint if im shooting a lane or whatever, but, that really isnt a huge factor in actuall in game gunfighting.

[Lohman446]

Its annoying. If I was recreational racing on a local track I would be upset if Earnhardt JR showed up with his car, crew, equipment - used bumping and other NASCAR tactics to obliterate the field and win. Or if I was playing backyard footbal and Tom Brady showed up to play QB for the other team, and just happened to bring all the NE Patriots with him and they all played together on one team to destroy the other team. You can look at the list of examples that go on and on.

Why do we insist on doing it in paintball?

[68magOwner]

Its annoying. If I was recreational racing on a local track I would be upset if Earnhardt JR showed up with his car, crew, equipment - used bumping and other NASCAR tactics to obliterate the field and win. Or if I was playing backyard footbal and Tom Brady showed up to play QB for the other team, and just happened to bring all the NE Patriots with him and they all played together on one team to destroy the other team. You can look at the list of examples that go on and on.

Why do we insist on doing it in paintball?


just because som kid is driving earnhearts car, or wearing bradys uniform, it dosent make em be able to drive or play football any better. ;)

same allpies to paintball

[davidnj]

Where do you draw the line then? Is it a $25 walmart talon special that keeps the field totally even? Is the line at a classic mag valve is ok but an x valve isnt ok?

You have to be careful with the argument (That I think) you are trying to make. Heck, we can apply it to masks, is it fair that my mask doesnt fog up (and on the slim chance it starts to, I have a fan) and I play against people that sometimes do fog up and cant see as well as I do?

I think in certain aspects its unfair that I can pick between an Angel, an assortment of xvalved mags or a cocker when I play. At the same time though, being able to lay down 1,2,3,10,20 bps doesn't give me the advantage that having somebody like Tom Brady on my backyard football team does. It helps in certain spots, doesn't matter in other situations (with the pball marker).

/edit Wanted to add, while it does help to have superior equipment in some situations, i think overall the general skill of the player is more important.


Its annoying. If I was recreational racing on a local track I would be upset if Earnhardt JR showed up with his car, crew, equipment - used bumping and other NASCAR tactics to obliterate the field and win. Or if I was playing backyard footbal and Tom Brady showed up to play QB for the other team, and just happened to bring all the NE Patriots with him and they all played together on one team to destroy the other team. You can look at the list of examples that go on and on.

Why do we insist on doing it in paintball?

[Lohman446]

Where do you draw the line then? Is it a $25 walmart talon special that keeps the field totally even? Is the line at a classic mag valve is ok but an x valve isnt ok?

You have to be careful with the argument (That I think) you are trying to make. Heck, we can apply it to masks, is it fair that my mask doesnt fog up (and on the slim chance it starts to, I have a fan) and I play against people that sometimes do fog up and cant see as well as I do?

I think in certain aspects its unfair that I can pick between an Angel, an assortment of xvalved mags or a cocker when I play. At the same time though, being able to lay down 1,2,3,10,20 bps doesn't give me the advantage that having somebody like Tom Brady on my backyard football team does. It helps in certain spots, doesn't matter in other situations (with the pball marker).

/edit Wanted to add, while it does help to have superior equipment in some situations, i think overall the general skill of the player is more important.

I draw the line at this. If I show up with my tournament team at a rec event - regardless of what equipment we use, we are going to divide ourselves to each team. We are going to target (primarly) each other and take other eliminations just on a "happen to" basis. The same example, say you are playing backyard ball and the Patriots show up, they divide the team evenly and both sides play with people who are "very good". Its a lot more fun isn't it? I am not asking you not to use your equipment, or even to use your skill, which is more important than equipment. I think that we need to make certain that we, as players, do not go to rec events and "obliterate" the competition by stacking teams. There are very good players who play only rec - I realize this and this is not meant to be demeaning to any of them.

[OmniDynmc]

Where do you draw the line then? Is it a $25 walmart talon special that keeps the field totally even? Is the line at a classic mag valve is ok but an x valve isnt ok?

You have to be careful with the argument (That I think) you are trying to make. Heck, we can apply it to masks, is it fair that my mask doesnt fog up (and on the slim chance it starts to, I have a fan) and I play against people that sometimes do fog up and cant see as well as I do?

I think in certain aspects its unfair that I can pick between an Angel, an assortment of xvalved mags or a cocker when I play. At the same time though, being able to lay down 1,2,3,10,20 bps doesn't give me the advantage that having somebody like Tom Brady on my backyard football team does. It helps in certain spots, doesn't matter in other situations (with the pball marker).

/edit Wanted to add, while it does help to have superior equipment in some situations, i think overall the general skill of the player is more important.

Most fields clearly draw the line at full auto markers. Now obviously half of the reason is that the markers can be unsafe if a race condition is triggered. My field in orientation bans them mostly because it's not sporting to hold a trigger down and keep some one behind cover the whole game. Ironically they ban trippmans with reactive triggers turned on too.

However! That being said, there are a host of "one-shot" markers like Angel Speeds and others that do the EXACT same thing in essense that are not banned or regulated. So then, why is it any more sporting to be able to bounce the trigger so fast it's *like* full auto?

It's really not any specific marker that is called into question, it is what the marker is capable of doing. My use of the Angel Speed is simply for example purposes. If it truly is up to the skill of the player, why is the "skilled" player finding the need to spray the hell out of the field?

For me it isn't a whining issue, it's a logical one. If some one wants to waste a case of paint on me I don't get pissed on the field, but I'm certainly not impressed with their abilities and I don't really think it contributes to the sport in general. Often, I'd rather go 8 shot vs. 8 shot against them and see how REALLY "skilled" they are, but at the modern day paintball field it's a lost cause.

Greg

[davidnj]

Oh I misunderstood your first post. Yeah I agree somewhat with what you are saying here. The 5 people I play with (we are 27 now) have been playing together since we were 16. Up until 3 years ago we'd gladly split up on a rec ball day. Now that 2 of them live in Hawaii, 1 in northern NJ, me at the Jersey shore and the final in central NJ, our playing time together is limited to 1-2 times a year. On those days we definitely stick to the same team for a while, even if it means we win the first 3-4 games in a way overmatched manner. After we have our fun of playing on the same team we have no issues splitting up to make everybodys day more fun.

Outside of my little geography issue, I totally agree with you that its more fun to have a more challenging game. Sorry bout misinterpreting you!



I draw the line at this. If I show up with my tournament team at a rec event - regardless of what equipment we use, we are going to divide ourselves to each team. We are going to target (primarly) each other and take other eliminations just on a "happen to" basis. The same example, say you are playing backyard ball and the Patriots show up, they divide the team evenly and both sides play with people who are "very good". Its a lot more fun isn't it? I am not asking you not to use your equipment, or even to use your skill, which is more important than equipment. I think that we need to make certain that we, as players, do not go to rec events and "obliterate" the competition by stacking teams. There are very good players who play only rec - I realize this and this is not meant to be demeaning to any of them.

[Lohman446]

just because som kid is driving earnhearts car, or wearing bradys uniform, it dosent make em be able to drive or play football any better. ;)

same allpies to paintball


You understand the spirit of the post though right? I know two players, that if I get far enough out of MI I could make an awesome team out of.. I can picture it at some event

Promotor: What division are you?
Me: Uhmm.. I don't know... uhmm, we all just got E-mags.. there a good gun right? Where should we be.
Promotor: Rookie...

Ouch, I'm going to get crucified for that, but think about peoples perceptions, and tell me I am wrong

For those of you who know the two players I am discussing I could then sit down and watch, because there would be no reason for me to take the field :D

The point is, judging people by equipment, to either end of the spectrum is going to cause you a problem.

I was playing rec in the woods one day, and had taken out my phantom - I gave one player a chance to surrender.. which he did not take, he turned, I shot him and he shot me. The next game I got out my Shocker - same situation he got three to the back without a chance to surrender - within the rules of the game. He hadn't seemed at all concerned when I told him he would no longer get the chacne to surrender as we walked off.. right up until I took a volley of shots off the side of the chrono with my Shocker.

[SlartyBartFast]

I don't see how they are disgusting. We're talking about a high-empact sport much like football or hockey. You typically don't see a bunch of 12 years olds playing tackle football with adults, nor do you see them playing hockey with adults without severely nerfing the rules of contact.

Rubbish. Look in your local park on any weekend, or in most streets in Canada and what do you see? pick up games of football, hockey, baseball....

Many with diverse age groups.

You sir, ARE being an :cuss: if you show up at a WALK-ON game and then proceed to "dominate" the field with your team.

Yes, you initially complained about is playing "stream of paint" a "sport". IMO, any form of paintball is as much a "sport" as another. Given that all the participants are playing with the same expectations. But point that you mised, is that most walk-ons are not there to play a "sport". They are there to play a "game". Just as players of "walk-on" games of football, baseball, hockey or other are there to play varying degrees of a game.

You have decided you want to play full-on hard contact. Fine. But YOU should limit your exposure to the walk-ons who want to have a fun day of paintball. Not the other way round.

Do you think the majority of the walk-ons came expecting the paintball equivqlent of a friendly flag football match or full-tackle?

If the field owner had half a brain, he'd have given your friend a warning and expelled him if he didn't tone it down or join a game filled with like minded players.

The fact that you and your friends continued to play around an injured and distressed player during a rec game is deplorable.

[xXHavokXx]

So because you cant adapt a gun sucks........

the best players in rec, tourney and scenario have all learned to play with how the game is chanigng. Pump guy sstill play, they just play differently (IE not running through wide open lanes wehre someone is going to be laning OR have learned to run through paint).

Yes running through lanes of paint is possible, my front players do it honestly every weekend.

[Lohman446]

So because you cant adapt a gun sucks........

the best players in rec, tourney and scenario have all learned to play with how the game is chanigng. Pump guy sstill play, they just play differently (IE not running through wide open lanes wehre someone is going to be laning OR have learned to run through paint).

Yes running through lanes of paint is possible, my front players do it honestly every weekend.


I do it honestly 90% of the time.

The other 10%... well sometimes I make it :p

[SlartyBartFast]

For me it isn't a whining issue, it's a logical one. If some one wants to waste a case of paint on me I don't get pissed on the field, but I'm certainly not impressed with their abilities and I don't really think it contributes to the sport in general. Often, I'd rather go 8 shot vs. 8 shot against them and see how REALLY "skilled" they are, but at the modern day paintball field it's a lost cause.

And I agree with you completely on that point.

Now, you just have to wake up to the realisation that during an open walk-on day, many if not most of the players don't want to play wagianst streams of paint or aggresive attitudes.

The academic argument of what constitutes "skill" is all fine and dandy in a vacum. It may actually have an answer or agreement or two if you're talking about specific levels or styles of play.

But the case at hand is not academic. The style of play and the attitude displayed are CLEARLY inappropriate for the setting.

If a player doesn't have the self-control and dicipline to use streams of paint with respect for the other player the ABSOLUTELY have no place in a walk-on game.

If they are going to become known only for their disregard for other players and laying down paint wihtout watching for breaks or calls, many older and more experienced players will also get tired of their participation as well.

If you have any sense of sportsmanship and any concept of self-worth, you should only be going onto the field with cases of paint if every one else is. Because if at the end of the day you are crowing because you "dominated" the field due to an unlimited wallet and a bad jerk overly competitve like attitude, I feel pity for you. You'll never have my respect.

[OmniDynmc]

Rubbish. Look in your local park on any weekend, or in most streets in Canada and what do you see? pick up games of football, hockey, baseball....

Many with diverse age groups.

You sir, ARE being an :cuss: if you show up at a WALK-ON game and then proceed to "dominate" the field with your team.

Yes, you initially complained about is playing "stream of paint" a "sport". IMO, any form of paintball is as much a "sport" as another. Given that all the participants are playing with the same expectations. But point that you mised, is that most walk-ons are not there to play a "sport". They are there to play a "game". Just as players of "walk-on" games of football, baseball, hockey or other are there to play varying degrees of a game.

You have decided you want to play full-on hard contact. Fine. But YOU should limit your exposure to the walk-ons who want to have a fun day of paintball. Not the other way round.

Do you think the majority of the walk-ons came expecting the paintball equivqlent of a friendly flag football match or full-tackle?

If the field owner had half a brain, he'd have given your friend a warning and expelled him if he didn't tone it down or join a game filled with like minded players.

The fact that you and your friends continued to play around an injured and distressed player during a rec game is deplorable.

I don't believe I said I had a team. I said squad, and it's a group of friends that actually MET each other at that field over time and we DO play together and often times against each other depending on the number of walk-ons that day. Hell, I don't even play tourny.

And as to the football and hockey thing, since I don't play either, I play volleyball typically open gyms here don't have any 12 year olds. At least not at the park and rec centers in town, in fact you have to be over 18 just to get in due to the danger of the sport and liability. If you re-read my post you should find that I'm saying I think the Dad and the Kid got a raw deal partially because of the speed the marker is able to shoot at and partially because people are allowed to continue to do it.

Paintball is NOT flag football, whether they expect it or not, it is by nature a high-impact sport as I said earlier, if you don't come expecting to get hit with a paintball, it's probably not your sport, it *should* be common sense.

And if you must know, I actually stayed with them attempted to suggest the safest way to get off the field. Every rec field I've been to, it's very easy to get overshot, in fact this local field WARNS you that it can and does happen, and though discouraged it's a part of life.

I don't see a reason for your hostility to be honest, perhaps he could have chilled a bit on the shooting but show me a field where there aren't people shooting 14bps on average that isn't pump only and I'll wear a pink dress. Which of course brings us back to my point, how is shooting 14bps or higher "sport"ing?

If you'll take some more time to really read what I've said you'll find I'm not ripping up the unskilled players, I'm shaming the skilled (not refering to just tourny players) for needing to shoot their hopper out in a matter of seconds who shouldn't need to.

Greg

[xXHavokXx]

And the Angel Speed sucks because.....

The Angel Speed is an awesome gun. I love mine and WDP as a company. They hire hot women and make sure we get to talk to them on the phone.

back to my point; maybe you should say "Dude who hosed me and my squad with a Speed or hosed other people sucks" but not "Angel Speeds suck"

[hobbesTZ]

I didn't bother to read all the posts, but I think what it boils down to is that if you light up a n00b ( thats not your friend :p ) then you're an *******. It's not like you can't control the speed of any marker.

[Lohman446]

I was playing one day against a group, it was late in the day and the players left were mostly tournament players. We are all friendly, we know each other, we trust each other. We took this opportunity for one of the players to bring his son into the game. Now I had taken the snake, and had good backup, we were down to two players on there team. I was heavily throwing fire at there two positions, I assumed they were both the normal backplayers left. Well one of the players who I thought I was shooting at was on the sideline, out and he walked up to me. He simply told me that was the guys kid in one of the bunkers, and pointed out which one. I took the opportunity to practice snap shooting - you know what, I lost... sure I could have won.. I could have rained fire in, moved up the snake and angled both of them... but this way was more fun, gave me more practice, and allowed the kid a wonderful game. Did it cost me anything?

[bull]

I have to agree with the above. The orginal post stated they just wanted to go and destroy the other side has they usually do. So these cool guys go out and light up a 10 year old, theres showing a newbie.

I have played with everything from the orginal PGP (my first gun) up to a tricked out impluse. I now play on a scenario team and when we play walk-ons we tone down the game and try to make it fun. If I see some one in a bush I would not hose it down with 20BPS. I would fire some rounds in and give them a chance to pull out or give up. If I'am a superior player, I should be able to take them with no problem WITHOUT HURTING THEM. Even if it was two adults, instead of a 10 year old, they would have been two people who would never want to play again.

Now if Iam playing aganist another good team the gloves come off, but even then I dont just light people up. Save it for airball/tourney games where you have to play that way.

[OmniDynmc]

I have to agree with the above. The orginal post stated they just wanted to go and destroy the other side has they usually do. So these cool guys go out and light up a 10 year old, theres showing a newbie.

I have played with everything from the orginal PGP (my first gun) up to a tricked out impluse. I now play on a scenario team and when we play walk-ons we tone down the game and try to make it fun. If I see some one in a bush I would not hose it down with 20BPS. I would fire some rounds in and give them a chance to pull out or give up. If I'am a superior player, I should be able to take them with no problem WITHOUT HURTING THEM. Even if it was two adults, instead of a 10 year old, they would have been two people who would never want to play again.

Now if Iam playing aganist another good team the gloves come off, but even then I dont just light people up. Save it for airball/tourney games where you have to play that way.

*cough* I did not say we go out to destroy n00bs.

#1 It's a rec field.
#2 We were also "walk-ons" but we go there all the time to play.
#3 We were not a team, nor do any of us play tourny on teams or as teams.
#4 We all met each other over time as we played at that field.
#5 We go after each other ALL the time specifically. But we also enjoying playing a strategic game together and usually we play on the team with the least number of people to help balance the game.
#6 Yes if there is a person in front of us from the other team, we shoot them, that's part of the game. If they are young we TRY not to over shoot them but in the brush it can be hard to make that determination.

And #7: The POINT I was trying to make is that allowing people to shoot high rates of fire on rec fields takes the sport out of the game and in essense causes overshooting and massive paint flying everywhere.

Sheesh ya'll need to read a bit more carefully before firing off massive condemnations. :wow:

Greg

[onedude36]

This was happening at one of my fields.
*storytime*
It was me with my stock minimag, 2 ten yearolds, and their dad VS random washed up tourney wanna-be with a dm3 and a couple random nobs. He tried a run-through. He got 4 in the chest. He crawled lader, I went snake. He took 2 hits to the gun. It was fun. :headbang:
*endstorytime*

[bull]

Not trying to sound too harsh but:

1. you said your "squad" and "squad members", kinda sounds like a team that normally plays together
2. Iam a walk-on too when my team goes out and plays rec-day (we also have seperate practice days), just dont have to play like that.
3. Never said you were tourney players - just 20 bps is more for the tourney teams
4. Yes you can stop from overshooting 20 balls - don't do it. Even when I had my impluse out on rec days I never tried to fire more than three shots. When I had my electro-spyder I did not use the three round burst, to easy to overshoot. When Iam on the field and overshoot, which I consider three balls hitting someone, I try to meet up with them and say Iam sorry. If I ever hit anyone and made them cry I would stop what I was doing and check on them. (we have done that in the past when a kid got hit once and was crying). Any of you guys stop and check on the kid, from what you wrote you just continued playing...oh well to bad so sad huh

[Lohman446]

My normal squad got together on the same team in an effort to totally dominate the field like we usually do.


#3 We were not a team, nor do any of us play tourny on teams or as teams.



You used to be able to hear the space between shots on his old marker, and with the new one it quite honestly sounds like on constant stream. My friend did his usual constant stream and basically lit them up (and I'm not faulting him really they were in the brush).


#6 Yes if there is a person in front of us from the other team, we shoot them, that's part of the game. If they are young we TRY not to over shoot them but in the brush it can be hard to make that determination.



The poor kid must have cried for about 10 minutes while we continued to play the game around them (they weren't walking off cause the kid was screaming bloody murder and dad was trying to comfort).



#1 It's a rec field.


So what did I misread?
I

[XSSPL]

Personally - I have played against and with all kinds... all kinds of people with all kinds of equipment in all different types of games and settings.

Any player with any marker with any amount of paint should be allowed to play in any walk-on game AS LONG AS THEY PLAY WITHIN THE CONFINES of the field's rules and more importantly within the realm of COMMON FRICKIN' SENSE.

It's very simple - LIFE IS NOT FAIR OR PERFECT - never has been never will be. There will always be jerks, egos, A-holes, nice guys, "newbies" - the full spectrum - - NO MATTER WHAT THE ENDEVOUR - be it paintball or walking down the damn street.

What truely separates us - is the manner in which we handle our differences.

[Lohman446]

, I try to meet up with them and say Iam sorry. If I ever hit anyone and made them cry I would stop what I was doing and check on them. (we have done that in the past when a kid got hit once and was crying). Any of you guys stop and check on the kid, from what you wrote you just continued playing...oh well to bad so sad huh


Thats the main problem with the whole thing. Things happen on teh field, mistakes, and occassionally someone gets hurt, or more likely there pride hurt. Apologies, admitting a mistake go a long way. With something like this letting a kid try a "super gun" for five minutes, taking him "hunting" for other players iwth it.. playing could make a bad experience for him into a good one.. ignoring him there was no chance.

[OmniDynmc]

Not trying to sound too harsh but:

1. you said your "squad" and "squad members", kinda sounds like a team that normally plays together
2. Iam a walk-on too when my team goes out and plays rec-day (we also have seperate practice days), just dont have to play like that.
3. Never said you were tourney players - just 20 bps is more for the tourney teams
4. Yes you can stop from overshooting 20 balls - don't do it. Even when I had my impluse out on rec days I never tried to fire more than three shots. When I had my electro-spyder I did not use the three round burst, to easy to overshoot. When Iam on the field and overshoot, which I consider three balls hitting someone, I try to meet up with them and say Iam sorry. If I ever hit anyone and made them cry I would stop what I was doing and check on them. (we have done that in the past when a kid got hit once and was crying). Any of you guys stop and check on the kid, from what you wrote you just continued playing...oh well to bad so sad huh

Actually yes, I did and offered to help them off the field.

I should have put a :P or :) or j/k after the "dominate the field like we usually do" comment. We're about 4-5 friends who have played there for a long time and typically we do a lot of backdooring etc. We aren't the gun-hoe kill everyone types, that was my bad for putting it like that.

Greg

[CrawforDry]

I own a couple high end markers (a viking and an excalibur) and I find I lure more players into the game than scare them away. Naturally a little kid is going to be scared but that is person to person and that would happen regardless of marker speed. I'm pretty sure a tippmann could deliver two or three shots to say the neck and that would be enough to end a young players experience. I frequently lend my markers out to new players and ref(also watching my markers closely ;D) and by the end of the game every single time the player is absolutly in love with my gun and asking how much it costs, where to buy one, explaining every detail of the game to me.

You fail to look at the aspect of "home field advantage." It seems pretty unfail that you and your friends know all of the terrain and how to use every aspect your environment to help your play. In a woodsball game this can be just as lethal as a fast marker in airball.

[Cowboy97]

This is alot of the reason I think I want to avoid RT. Even when I wasn't playing, i tried to direct folks into the game that were interested or saw my scant 2 trophies.

Storytime!
In all my time in rec/tourney ball I only ripped one kid, and that was cause he flash fried another kid from 3 ft away in the back of the neck, who was on the same team! Did it and laughed, and his dad laughed too. My partner burned up dad the next game and I cooked the kid like a turkey. I felt kind of guilty, but that all went away when brat and bastard left, and everyone was thanking us.

I also have a different perspective. I'm going to be taking my nephew to play, and I intend on testing the fields before we go. And the above is all the more reason too. I'm not saying your buddy was in the wrong. i'd have probably done the same thing. You don't know who is in that bush. Any amount of tourney ball gives you some mentallity to throw the paint when in doubt or you have no shot. At least you did do the upright thing in helping them off the field. Compassion and an apology go a long way when they are sincere.

[master_alexander]

it is the exact same thing here, where i play. all the refs that are off that day play half of the day and spray paint the other half. i am a more of a regular than i used to be, i can shoot in the middle of the "pros" and the "walk on's" and i do pretty well.

but what really ticks me off is when i actually use my mind and not spray paint and outsmart the guys with the fast guns and then their friend that i just got out tells them where i am... ruining my plan. i'm going to start a thread on that and see what everyone else says.

[gc82000]

Hater..... :p

Dude you are not getting the point of fast guns because you play woodsball. Which I honestly dont blame you or your choice of game. But dont go saying that a certain gun sucks, or that one aspect of the game is less then another. Watch any tourney video and watch the teams spray a stream of paint it is in a very small grouping. Or watch the front men when they are snapping then ussually can pop out five balls in the time it takes to go in and out. And yet again in the same small grouping. You may not think that aiming is a big part of a game but it is. Some ppl can do it faster then others.

[UTDragun]

one day my field was thinking of maybe having a short tourney with only allowing shakedown hoppers (ie non electric).. ya know, the rental hoppers. that way, everyone would be limited to 8 or so bps.
i cant wait to see all those guys with fast guns without eyes try to shoot 8 bps without creating a pool
:rofl:

[bull]

I have no problem with the guns, I use to shoot a Nasty Impluse, great gun. I liked the gun not because of the speed of the trigger, but because of the accuracy. I would have kept it except the silver kinda sticks out in the woods. I have no problem with tourney play, in fact i like watching the games when I get the chance. It not my style of play, but I respect the guys that like to play that style. 20 BPS had a place and its on the tourney field.

My problem was 20 BPS into a bush not knowing whats going on, "Trying not to overshoot" people, and continuing a game while someone is "screaming bloody murder" in pain.

Also I'll say Iam sorry since I missed this: see below still learning the quote feature




I don't think anybody goes to a paintball field not expecting to get hit, they just don't expect to get hit by 10-12 paintballs in a second. Also paintball is not SWAT or tackle football it a friggin game that can be played by a entire family. My son plays hes 15, my little girl who is 10 wants to play (it won't be at your field). Playing tourney you can get overshot real easy, but even then these players know when to let off the trigger, theres no reason to overshoot that much in the woods. Most of the guys with this type of macho attitude about the game is the cop type wanna-bes's who can't handle it in real life. Your story just does not add up. it sounds like you guys want to shoot like a tourney, just not get hit like one. And get your pink dress out, we may be able to shoot 14+ BPS, we just dont shoot a person with 14 BPS.

Face it what happened was dangerous and stupid. If it had been at my playing field your friend would have at least been booted for the day.

[bull]

see above
I don't believe I said I had a team. I said squad, and it's a group of friends that actually MET each other at that field over time and we DO play together and often times against each other depending on the number of walk-ons that day. Hell, I don't even play tourny.

And as to the football and hockey thing, since I don't play either, I play volleyball typically open gyms here don't have any 12 year olds. At least not at the park and rec centers in town, in fact you have to be over 18 just to get in due to the danger of the sport and liability. If you re-read my post you should find that I'm saying I think the Dad and the Kid got a raw deal partially because of the speed the marker is able to shoot at and partially because people are allowed to continue to do it.

Paintball is NOT flag football, whether they expect it or not, it is by nature a high-impact sport as I said earlier, if you don't come expecting to get hit with a paintball, it's probably not your sport, it *should* be common sense.

And if you must know, I actually stayed with them attempted to suggest the safest way to get off the field. Every rec field I've been to, it's very easy to get overshot, in fact this local field WARNS you that it can and does happen, and though discouraged it's a part of life.

I don't see a reason for your hostility to be honest, perhaps he could have chilled a bit on the shooting but show me a field where there aren't people shooting 14bps on average that isn't pump only and I'll wear a pink dress. Which of course brings us back to my point, how is shooting 14bps or higher "sport"ing?

If you'll take some more time to really read what I've said you'll find I'm not ripping up the unskilled players, I'm shaming the skilled (not refering to just tourny players) for needing to shoot their hopper out in a matter of seconds who shouldn't need to.

Greg

[thorn]

high bps= tourney players
bounce= not acceptable
high bps= NOT rec-ball
low bps= rec ball.

[Lohman446]

Just for the record I don't mean to bash tournament players

I would sooner introduce my kids to paintball with the tournament players I know in a controlled game than in an open walk on rec-ball game.

[Predator-KMK]

Please, don´t speedballize the woods...

[xXHavokXx]

high bps= tourney players
bounce= not acceptable
high bps= NOT rec-ball
low bps= rec ball.


High Bps = Rec Ballers with 200 bucks, yes for 200 bucks you can shoot huge rates of fire now. Its progress, it's happeneing and it's not going away.

Kids want it, their parents want it and hell we can't sell enough of it. ROF the crack of the new millenium

[OmniDynmc]

I don't think anybody goes to a paintball field not expecting to get hit, they just don't expect to get hit by 10-12 paintballs in a second. Also paintball is not SWAT or tackle football it a friggin game that can be played by a entire family. My son plays hes 15, my little girl who is 10 wants to play (it won't be at your field). Playing tourney you can get overshot real easy, but even then these players know when to let off the trigger, theres no reason to overshoot that much in the woods. Most of the guys with this type of macho attitude about the game is the cop type wanna-bes's who can't handle it in real life. Your story just does not add up. it sounds like you guys want to shoot like a tourney, just not get hit like one. And get your pink dress out, we may be able to shoot 14+ BPS, we just dont shoot a person with 14 BPS.

Unfortunately the fields in my area are littered with people who do that. I'm not condoning what was done and in fact hate 14bps+ shooting on a rec field. As I believe I said before, I used to shoot faster and long ago stopped finding it not very sportish and in fact not very fun.

That being said he's still my friend and I do enjoy playing with him.

[xXHavokXx]

So how do angel speeds suck again?

[bull]

Then its time to take a stand. You need to tell your friend to control himself or to pound sand. If we don't ref ourselves sometimes we just condone the behavior.

[Conversekidz]

BPS oh how you are an evil temptress....

I remember when I started playing paintball the rental markers where Bushmaster pumps, and "THE" semi auto (the only one they had at the field) was a mag. Then after a couple of years they got pro-am's when they came out (i think that was the name of it, one of tippmans guns) and the style of play changed, people where shooting faster and the 500 rounds that we would barely use in a day turned into 1000-1500 rounds used now.

Around that time I bought a 68 carbine and was able to hold my own while I played.

Pretty soon I started playing with more players that shot cockers and mags, and wanting to move up into tourny play I decided to go the mag route. The mag was fast at the time I bought it, the BPS wasn't over kill and I felt it kept me at the same level as others. At this time I saw the first "Angel" that was out and everyone was ooing and ahhing over the thing, and to be honest it was scary going up against it with a classic mag.


Life happened and I took a good 4-5 years off from paintball, letting my mag collect dust.

I just started to play again recently, and was playing at a local indoor field, and I came to the realization extremely quickly that I was out gunned with my old mag. I was playing against spyders....spyders people and they where out shooting me speed wise because of the new e-frames they have.

I crumbled after that...and went out and bought a faster gun. Now I can through back just as fast as the other guy.

But now comes the problem, over shooting. I was playing against a friend and had a nice clear line on him, so I let loose and ended up putting 5 shots right into his back/shoulder and I felt bad about over shooting him. I ended up appologizing to him after the game and he told me not to worry about it. If your fingers can do 15bps, and thats what you train them to do in 1/3 of a second you would have placed 5 shots on target.


Its kind of sad, I have only had my new gun for a couple of weeks but I'm honestly thinking of going back to my 68 carbine and my 8bps....

[bull]

A fast gun does not make a player....

I have been in one on one games with my stock A-5 and taken out cockers and shockers....its all in how you play :)

[Lohman446]

A fast gun does not make a player....

I have been in one on one games with my stock A-5 and taken out cockers and shockers....its all in how you play :)

I see your A5 vs Shocker and raise you VSC Phantom vs Angel Speed

Kid was a cocky SOB.. very new and had gotten his hands on a serious marker. Well one day I went one on one with him and wasted him, it was great.

Or the time I bunkered him with the Phantom - but it doesn't entirely count, because his back player might have looked the other way as I did it...