R/T Custom outdated?

[MadPSIence]

I'm nervous about buying a mag. My reason... the R/T Pro is 6 years old. The only news is the lvl10 bolt and Xvalve .. both years old.

I like what I see about the R/T Pro ... and actually have one in my shopping cart at airgun.com but I just need to know this gun can keep up with new guns in terms of speed accuracy and overall quality..

I'm sure some of you can understand where I come from here. 6 years is a long time between new models.. a friggin long time.

The one I have in cart right now is a black CF ULE body with black intelliframe, lvl 10 and x valve + ULT... so basically everything maxxed except warpfeed which I don't want..

[warbeak2099]

The only reason AGD hasn't changed the overall design is that there's nothing to change. It's only flaw is average air efficiency and the inability to reach over 14bps legally. You're never going to change the efficiency problem so all you can do is get a bigger/higher capacity tank. As for speed, there are plenty upgrades available and more on the way. Why should AGD spend more green on r&d if there really isn't anything to improve?

[MadPSIence]

to rogue factor -

that doesn't answer my question...

and does that thing even come with a barrel? if you could get me some pics of what it looks like out of the box I may be interested.

[warbeak2099]

Ok I'll rephrase my answer. The only thing the RT Custom lacks in when compared to present markers is air efficiency and speed. Speed can be fixed with upgrades, efficiency cannot.

[MadPSIence]

1. how bad is the efficiency?

2. why only 14 bps? the R/T is advertised to be able to do 20.

as far as the

[MadPSIence]

The pics in the thread are actual pics of the marker, out of the box.

It comes with everything listed. Which does not include a barrel.

And I did answer your question....my answer to you was the RPG Paradigm...its not outdated and its an upgraded version of the current RT Pro.

RogueFactor -

how fast?

It seems interesting. All I need afterwards would be a barrel and my hopper + air correct?

do you have any videos or pictures of it complete? I just want to see how it would look.

[MadPSIence]

I imagine it would look a little like a devil mag complete.. right? So I was told in this thread that thre R/T Custom is limited to 14bps .. is that true? If so why and how come the Paradigm is not limited? Thanks for sharing this with me btw I never even knew the Paradigm existed but it looks interesting.

Also.. does it still operate like a mag as far as needing a high pressure tank? Also.. how does one adjust velocity? Thanks.

[dynastyfan]

the x valve has been sound tested at 32.5 bps if im not mistaken. BUT that was with the rt effect. now you can wait for the ptp pnue mag frame and you can have the speed and pull of an electro

[MadPSIence]

wow this gun is gettin very tempting... does the line ever get in the way? just curious, it's in a wierd spot.

I play recball too... will this gun do alright in the woods?

I guess lastly .. the foregrip makes me wanna puke.. what out there can I replace it with?

I still would really like to be able to see a picture of the gun with barrel and such on it just so I can know what it will look like. I like functional guns but i like hot functional guns even more.

[arsonpaintball06]

why dont you try going to www.themagsmith.com or www.pbgear.com and research the upgrades you can get for it. Also you can search the forums for pictures of complete setups w/ rogue parts.

[MadPSIence]

:rolleyes: It sounds pretty interesting... but I know I can't order a gun that could look like anything. I was planning on buying something in the next week but I think I'll wait to see if any pictures of it pop up.

I've been deciding between a lot of guns lately.. everything from a modded A-5 to a System X NME to a Tactical Cocker and back to the R/T Custom.

One thing I like is the extra rails and such on the R/T .. it gives the gun a cool look. The Paradigm looks kind of naked without it.

[MadPSIence]

I don't need to mail other makers for pics because there are tons of pics out there already. Besides those guns come with barrels so naturally there are pics of them with barrels. btw System X even goes the extra mile and puts up pictures of the guns with everything on them at the System X forums.

NOT doggin you though.. I'm just really sketchy. I'm picky about purchases. Anyways I'll def think about it.. thanks for sharing this with me. It's def given me another option. If I like her you might hear from me next week. :)

[arsonpaintball06]

once again, take it upon yourself to use that little search button in the top right part of the screen that u have been neglecting so much. Plenty of pictures out there of rogues stuff. And i'd like to see you go on other forums and work out a deal w/ the person thats making the gun for you.

[MadPSIence]

the part outlined in red... it's the main visual dif I see between the Paradigm and others. What is it and can I get a paradigm with it?

[RRfireblade]

I just need to know this gun can keep up with new guns in terms of speed accuracy and overall quality..


Speed compared to 'todays' electronic markers....no, not a chance.

Accuracy...with good paint,air and barrel...sure,as accurate as any other in that price range.

Quality....Yup, as good or better than many in the price range.

Keep in mind this is a Mechanical Mag, much like a Mechanical Autococker the speed is going to limited dramatically by the triggers pull weight and length.

["the FitZ"]

Here's the answer. Get a mag. If you only play local tournies or woods ball you can use the rt effect at most of those. If you play big tournies and they outlaw rt's then you can still pull around 12 bps out of the box. w/ a new trigger (paradigm w/ viperblade) that has stops it can be faster. It's about like a mech cocker w/o all the other crap to deal with. If you are comparing to a shocker, dm4/5, (insert high end electro) and you feel as if you are outgunned then you could opt for the devilmag. It is one of the fastest electros on the market and can easily keep up. As for the efficiency it's almost on par w/ the other spool valves like dm4/5.

So... Go for the mag. either rogues or if you can afford it get a devil mag

[SpecialBlend2786]

the part outlined in red... it's the main visual dif I see between the Paradigm and others. What is it and can I get a paradigm with it?

nope. that'd be the for-grip bracket. Since the Sleeper has no holes you cant attach one.

Look into the original RogueRail. I have one and its pretty cool.

also, check out http://www.fragtek.com/

they have mags starting at $355 shipped. You can always get it with the stock frame and pick up an intelliframe off of the classifieds for cheap. good luck!

[Pullman]

Dude,

If you are picky then you oughtta go with the Paradigm or RT Custom (I would go Paradigm personally). You can stick any cocker threaded barrel you like on there and it'll look swell. The important bits are inside anyhow. Having played with numerous A-5s before I can tell you they are fine markers(for what they are), but they can't touch an x-valved mag. As far as cockers go, unless you have plenty of airgun experience and unlimited patience I'd pass. The mag is a super swell investment. I'm still playing with an x-valved mini-mag (that design is wayyyyy older than the RT Custom) which competes just fine with much faster markers, and I can prolly only pull 9-10 a second.

[MadPSIence]

is there anyone here from FragTek? I def have a few questions about them.. I like the dual hose setup too bad it's not available

[CKY_Alliance]

Im sure you noticed,but just incase,on AGD web site the gun can be ordered with a barral as an option it comes with one but it would be the same thing as ordering a paradigm and ordering a barrel form soemwhere else. Thought id just add that since you seem liek you want a barral with the gun. also the paradigm coems with asa and rt pro form AGD does not.

[Enemy]

also realize that other than the body the pardigm, fragtek, xvlaved minimag, and rt pro are identical!! the only real deferences are visually noticable like body rail and gripframe and what they come with!! also realize the gun is going to look the same with or without a barrel and if you really look around im sure you can find many photos of justabout any setup you desire. start here then try jayloo.com

[Pullman]

also realize that other than the body the pardigm, fragtek, xvlaved minimag, and rt pro are identical!! the only real deferences are visually noticable like body rail and gripframe and what they come with!! also realize the gun is going to look the same with or without a barrel and if you really look around im sure you can find many photos of justabout any setup you desire. start here then try jayloo.com


Good point!

One of the swell things about using an "older" marker is the ton of cosmetic add ons out there for them. The valve is the only important part. :D

[Kallahan]

The only reason AGD hasn't changed the overall design is that there's nothing to change. It's only flaw is average air efficiency and the inability to reach over 14bps legally. You're never going to change the efficiency problem so all you can do is get a bigger/higher capacity tank. As for speed, there are plenty upgrades available and more on the way. Why should AGD spend more green on r&d if there really isn't anything to improve?

There is ALWAYS something to improve on. AGD needs to improve or there won't be an AGD in 5 years.

[Creative Mayhem]

I may be chiming in late on this subject, but here's my take. I wont lie to you, yes the RTP/RT ULE are old designs, but let me ask you this, how can a design so old work so well? Quality, durability, and reliability.

I have owned a classic valved minimag for close to 12-13yrs, and I can tell you it performs like the day I got it. It isn't the fastest, but I can shoot more than my share of chumps with it. I got an xmag a few yrs ago, and I love it, it is fast, but do i need it? Not really, I wanted it:D

Basically what it boils down to is, what do you need in a paintball marker? If you need gas up and go, durability, reliabilty, and outstanding quality, than the mag is for you. Of course with all the customization and the outstanding dealers like RogueFactor and Tunaman you really can't go wrong in the looks dept either.

Good luck in your purchase.

[j.storm]

Yup, can't go wrong with Rogue, or any AGD product really.
Price: RT Pro Classic - unupgraded RT Pro - $250ish
RT Pro - Bell and Whistles - $550ish
RPG Paradigm - A RT Pro with the Bells and Whistles that actually looks sweet - $450ish

Looks: RTP Classic - Nice
RTP - Nice
RPG Paradigm - Very nice

Function: RTP Classic - Great for Woodsball, nice for req speedball
RT Pro - Great for both
RPG Paradigm - Great for both

Speed: RTP Classic - it's got a classic valve...slower, but if you can shoot straight, who cares
RT Pro - Xvalve. It WILL shoot as fast as YOU can pull the trigger (correctly that is)
RPG Paradigm - Ditto

Accuracy: They all shoot basically as straight as you can

Quality: We're talking AGD here. For the most part, they don't go wrong. And all RPG parts are basically modified AGD parts, so Rogue's stuff is superior too.

This is all personal opinion, but I play woodsball with a 'mag that is something between a Paradigm and a fully upgraded RT PRO. I can take ANYTHING out there, mostly because of moving and being able to shoot straight. In req speedball, I do just fine with a quick 3 round burst because, again, I can shoot straight (paint quality counts of course). Either gun would be great for either type of play. If it were up to me, I would get a Paradigm w/ ULT upgrade.

Hope this gives ya something to ponder.

[trev_pbller]

The site rails are nothing but old cosmetics more or less, or foregrip mounts/site rails...most people took them off the old RT Pro's...you posted about R/T Customs, in which Rogue produces custom mags. Don't be sketchy with Rogue, just because his gun doesnt have a barrel or rails doesn't mean he's a sketchy dealer. Rogue builds along with Tuna and others some of the hottest guns (mags) in paintball. The basic "trend" over the last few years with mags has been the weight and custom parts like the Sleeper rail and Rogue's Vert frame...jurastically reducing the weight of the RT. You're asking questions about mags, and trust these guys..they KNOW what they're talking about. They will not lead you wrong.

Rogue, you're my hero, I couldn't have kept my cool if I was you :D.

[Muzikman]

Umm, wait, you are asking if the Mag design is out of date, and then you go and look at a cocker? No offense here, but there is nothing "new" about the cocker design. And the quality of any System X gun is questionable. Tippmann is always a good choice though, but again, not very new.

So;

AGD RT Pro - Old design (Some re-engineered parts in the last 3 years), Reliable
Tactical Cocker - Very old design, Reliable (if you don't try and fix it yourself), New milling
System X NME - Newer design, Questionable quality
Tippmann A5 - Older design, Reliable

[jacobeid]

NOT doggin you though.. I'm just really sketchy. I'm picky about purchases. Anyways I'll def think about it.. thanks for sharing this with me. It's def given me another option. If I like her you might hear from me next week. :)

You can trust rogue with your life (well maybe I wouldn't put my life in his hands ;)) But he isn't going to rip you off. http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=37298&highlight=roguefactor 15 pages of happy customers. You know you're safe. I'll look around for a pic of a complete paradigm because you need a paradigm.

[j.storm]

You can trust rogue with your life
I'd trust him with the life of my 'Mag! :D

[tony3]

I've been using high end guns for a long while and this weekend, used my friends karta xvalve mag. It was definitely a disadvantage compared to my timmys. The fact is that the ease of shooting fast on the timmy is so much better then the mag. To get the mag near the speed of the timmy takes more time and effort. Snap shooting was also harder with the mag, takes longer to get those few shots off. Go with an electro. Ion is a nice choice. I saw 2 in action this weekend and they are great guns.

[VFX_Fenix]

Short answer, not really. It's still fast as a mechanical and it'll shoot about as well as any mechanical in its price range.

Long answer: Read On

The real issue is that AGD hasn't come out with something "Original" since the 68 Automag. Consider that ever since Mags first started rolling off the line they have remained virtually unchanged. Every change that the Mag has undergone has been a refinement of a feature, the X-Valve, Level 10, ULT, ULE, etc. etc. etc. are all refined versions of the original. The design also doesn't lend itself well to aftermarket parts such as trigger plates and regulators. For a ULE Custom there's only realistically a handful of items that you can upgrade and after that, you're done, that's it *POOF*.

Now you may say "well look at the Autococker" and it's true, the AC also has remained largely unchanged since it first made an appearance back in the day and all the bits on the stock guns are refined versions of the originals. However, look at the plethora of aftermarket parts for them up to and including 100% custom Cockers that aren't even made by WGP. Everyone and their brother in the paintball industry has practically made an upgrade of some sort for the Cocker. Cockers also have "never" been banned from a tournament serries (save for stock/pump or other limited formats) where as the Automag has (or at least as I recall it has).

When Tom introduced the Automag is was years ahead of the curve. When Tom realized that the world was going electro he came up with the E-Mag and later the X-Mag, both of which are no longer in "current" production though you can still buy E-Mags from AGD. Ever since the E-Mag came out I feel that AGD's been trying to play catch-up and when that didn't exactly turn out they moved to the Scenario world. The fact remains that AGD has fallen by the wayside of the paintball world, AGD still makes great guns, but for what they can do compaired to how much they cost and how far you can take them after that they suddenly lose their appeal. It's been so long since I've seen an AGD advertisment in a magazine that I'm not even sude I'd know what I was looking at if I did see it. Without some strong campaigning, a truely new gun or at least a Mag was cheaper than the rest of the current mechanical semi guns in a mid price range (sub $200), and the cheaper the "new gun" the better.

There is such a thing as brand loyalty, I think most of us on the AO have experienced some of that. If its possible to get new players hooked on AGD with an entry level gun then there might be a bright and strong future for AGD. As it stands, I see the aftermarket community being the future of AGD and even then I see AGD slipping into the pages of paintball history as a company that burned brightly then faded. If AGD is to truely have a future, it needs to change where its headed, a new gun, it doesn't really matter if it's low-end or high-end, but a new gun for AGD to show the world is what I see as a start. The Automag has had its momment in the spotlight, now its so obscure that virtually none of the new players even know what an Automag is. "What kind of gun (usually Shocker) is that?" shouldn't be a reasonable question, just like "Does the scoop on the hood of that Mustang work?" shouldn't be a reasonable question.

Look at Smart Parts, there's a company that's intruduced 3 completely new guns all in as many years. The 03 Shocker, Nerve and Ion, personally I don't like SP's business practices, but their support people (or at least the ones I've run into) have been exceptionally friendly (even with me toting around my E-Mag while talking to one of them) and interested about what people think of their products. Don't missunderstand me, I'm not saying that AGD should be like SP or that I think AGD's support people aren't friendly/helpfull/etc.. Look at WGP, they came out with a line of entry-level guns last Fall to add to their already impressive array of COckers with various levels of ups on them. Kingman, granted a Spyder is a Spyder is a Spyder, but c'mon, look at the firepower that they're putting into these things and then selling them for close to rock-bottom prices, also consider that every couple of years they rotate out their "older" models or give them a make-over with some new miling and/or features. ICD, always there in the background but still making strides forward in their products line with the introducts of the BKO and Freestyle. WDP is in something of the same boat as AGD though they have an advantage in that they're an electro company and all they have to do is catch-up (initially) then stay with the other big electro companies (I think they've done it with the 05 speed) plus the added feature that they have two levels of Angel in production. Gen-E and Bob Long have almost fanatical followings, Bobby for his flavor of the week Timmys and Gen-E for the o-so-insane LP operation of the Trix along with the custom flavors of the same gun by DYE/Proto.

Anyway, long and short of it all is this. AGD hasn't done a handfull of things in the last who knows how many years. They haven't made a completely new and/or cheaper gun, they haven't advertised, they haven't been at tournaments, they haven't diversified into making clothing/soft goods of any sort *points to DYE/SP/WDP* and it just seems like AGD doesn't care.

The Pneumatic triggers initially from Deadly Wind and now going to production with Pro-Team are the first truely new and innovative things that I've seen for the Automag. The E-Mag and all electronic mag bits were all taken care of by the Hyperframes and the like and the X-Mag was a decendant of the E-Mag, again a refined version of it. Depending on how PTP handles the Pnuematic frame this could be the resurection of the Automag on the tournament scene in serries that have limited ROF's (like PSP and X-Ball) though if anyone will use it is another point since Ramping is definately easier than actually pulling. Anyway, I should go before I doom and gloom myself to death.

[undescriptive]

hot-dang!

that's probably the best post I have read in months! :wow:

[Mechanic79]

I'm nervous about buying a mag. My reason... the R/T Pro is 6 years old. The only news is the lvl10 bolt and Xvalve .. both years old.

I like what I see about the R/T Pro ... and actually have one in my shopping cart at airgun.com but I just need to know this gun can keep up with new guns in terms of speed accuracy and overall quality..

I'm sure some of you can understand where I come from here. 6 years is a long time between new models.. a friggin long time.

The one I have in cart right now is a black CF ULE body with black intelliframe, lvl 10 and x valve + ULT... so basically everything maxxed except warpfeed which I don't want..

I'm just replying to the "6 years between models":

AGD was simply ahead of their time, no other manufacturer had such a tight package, reliable and durable. Quality lasts! you can't get any smaller or lighter either. Manufacturers today are copying the design.

I think AGD will always have a following (not counting those that fall off the wagon or bandwagon jumpers, *The loudest ones don't speak for everyone!) Their will always be a solid fan base.

[kurama]

The paradigm is basically a RT Pro with some upgrades at a great price. Its 10$ less than a RT pro of the same setup, but the paradigm comes with an upgraded rail also, and having a colored ULE body doesn't cost any more. If you want pics, look for a RT pro and its pretty much the same.

Oh, and the main page after you click "enter the site" shows a roguemag with a barrel. Its pretty similar, I bet you could see the differences between it and a paradigm.

[peewee]

:eek: Wow this thread has made me feel all fuzzy!!!! ;) Personally I went thru the gambit of markers, cockers ( ebladed) shockers etc. They for the most part were good guns due to the fact that I have learned how to maintain them. Some are a pain!!! I came back to the automag after several years of wandering. I can go up against any marker out there & I never feel outgunned. The RT ULE is a new marker in comparison to the classic , but they share the facts that they are insanly reliable, very well built ( quality), dont require much maintenance, shoot fast & are quiet. I plan on the PTP frame but if that falls thru I will devilize it!!!
:headbang: AGD :headbang:

[Alpha]

Mags will be outdated when people like you and me stop buying them.

If you think mags are outdated, I encourage you to visit www.TheMagSmith.com

[UTDragun]

speed is good enough for me, i have a logic frame and can easily walk 15bps legally

[Lohman446]

speed is good enough for me, i have a logic frame and can easily walk 15bps legally


I want video proof of a sustained (10 seconds) fifteen balls per second on any gun with single pull single shot trigger system. Meet these requirements and I will give the first person to post it $20 by paypal. Must be able to see each individual trigger pull and sound graph analysis must match those pulls to the shots fired. Must be with paint. Rather than judging it myself I will accept the juding of it from someone like RRFireblade. Lets see it. I honestly don't beleive anyone, on any marker that uses non-enhanced firing modes (ramping, auto, RT), is getting a sustained 15 balls per second.

[Kallahan]

The only reason AGD hasn't changed the overall design is that there's nothing to change. It's only flaw is average air efficiency and the inability to reach over 14bps legally. You're never going to change the efficiency problem so all you can do is get a bigger/higher capacity tank. As for speed, there are plenty upgrades available and more on the way. Why should AGD spend more green on r&d if there really isn't anything to improve?

With so many markers out performing mag's these days, exactly how is this true. There are more consistant markers, more efficent markers, faster markers, lighter markers. The RT pro is a dated design. Plus your arguments are all crap, bad efficeny still exists no matter how large your tank is. What if I want to finish a game on a 47/3000?
The one thing wrong with AGD is simple, they have no new product, thats what's killing them.

Cokers are continously being improved, The ram/lpr/reg/3-way are all updated. They now have delrin bolts stock and a removable feed neck. They have an electronic frame ect. a fully loaded 2005 cocker is far superior to a fully loaded cocker from 2003. These are done by WGP or incorporated and sold by WGP.

[GA Devil]

DevilMAG (http://www.devilsden.tv/devilmag.htm)

there you got the mag with all the speed you can want.

[MadPSIence]

lol, boys check out the rest of the forum. I've since bought a custom mag and turned it into a monster of sorts..

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

is there anyone here from FragTek? I def have a few questions about them.. I like the dual hose setup too bad it's not available

Im not from fragtek but that red/silver mag on the main page is mine :D . Its sweet :shooting: