Any other services similar to DevilMAG?

[Corbet]

After looking at the DevilMAG site, I am very interested in sending in my mag to turn it into an electro with an eye. There has to be some kind of competition with this, what are some other sites/people that do something similar to the DevilMAG?

[White_Noise]

no body is currently offering anything like that. only other way to do it is by yourself or do a spyder mag mod, but then you dont get eyes

[Corbet]

no body is currently offering anything like that. only other way to do it is by yourself or do a spyder mag mod, but then you dont get eyes

are there any tutorials online on how to do it? Is it hard?

[White_Noise]

there are a few people who have done it and have pics in the workshop section i think. its pretty hard cause you need to make mounts for the board and solenoid. best bet is just to go with the devilmag.

[UTDragun]

there are a few people who have done it and have pics in the workshop section i think. its pretty hard cause you need to make mounts for the board and solenoid. best bet is just to go with the devilmag.
what he said

[SCpoloRicker]

er, I own a DevilMag, and modding a spyder frame to work with the mag works great :confused:

Now, I couldn't tell you how to do it... doesn't mean its not an option. I'd actually recommend PBN's automag board, as I believe it's stickied over there.

[warbeak2099]

Tonybhall on pbnation will do the spydermag mod for $100. This does not include the equipment, only the service. You have to send him your mag with a spyder esp frame and all the shims on your ult. It would also be a good idea to send an extra sear in too. He doesn't install eyes or any of that though. So it'd be like this:

Service - $100
Used ESP frame - $50
Tboard w/ 25/50g switch - $66
Aftermarket trigger - $25
ESP sticky 3's - $20
Total - $261

If you want eyes add another $10 for the actual hardware from scenario dreams and say around $50 for your local airsmith to drill the eye holes. That's $321 for installing a frame with an uncapped board, aftermarket trigger, eyes, and a light switch. The only thing the Devilmag has on this setup is the option for a 90* frame and lots of modes with the AFA code. For some more modes add either the ramping chip or tchip onto your tboard order for an extra $20. As of now there are no spyder vert frames though there should be one coming out soon. So $341 and all you're missing is it isn't a vert frame. That's a difference of $209 since the devilmag w/ eyes is $550.
I am not sure however if tony is still willing to do the service. Please pm him first.

[p8ntball365]

Spydermag (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=696650&highlight=%2Bspydermag)

[phantomhitman]

this thread is becoming a joke. a spyderframed mag will NOT in any way compete with a devilmag. i dont care what you do with it.

$341 and all you're missing is it isn't a vert frame

no, very wrong. you are getting a faster gun, a frame made especially made for a mag, better looking, way more modes of fire for whatever reason you need them. the devilmag is by far teh most reliably, fastest, all in one package mag.

i have to steal a camera so i can make a video......... :cuss:

[Enemy]

think of it this way 349 for a frame that may be able to keep up with a devilmag but isnt made for the automag and looks like a spyder frame!! then there is the devilmag which comes with eyes and arguably the best board out there!! plus the devil mag frame is a custom frame built specifically for an automag and looks like a custom frame!!

[tonybhall]

this thread is becoming a joke. a spyderframed mag will NOT in any way compete with a devilmag. i dont care what you do with it.

$341 and all you're missing is it isn't a vert frame

no, very wrong. you are getting a faster gun, a frame made especially made for a mag, better looking, way more modes of fire for whatever reason you need them. the devilmag is by far teh most reliably, fastest, all in one package mag.

i have to steal a camera so i can make a video......... :cuss:

For the most part, WRONG.

With an xsf board or t-board the spydermag will keep up with a Devil Mag just fine. XSF board is uncapped and the T-board is capped at 36 bps. Since they use the same valve, it's really up to the speed of the users fingers at that point.

You can add eyes to a spydermag (don't know why you would if you have a lvl10)

And the T-Board now has an upgrade that will give you all those modes of fire too.

The devil mag does look better, I'll give you that one.

[tonybhall]

and by the way. I don't actually do the Spydermags. My team mate Daniel does them. But I can hook you up with him.

[warbeak2099]

Yea, you guys are pretty disillusioned. The AFA code has a couple extra cheater modes, wow. The spyder frame actually doesn't look half bad on a mag. In fact it looks very good with sticky grips on it. With a ramping chip, the tboard is right next to the predator. It has fully programmable ramping modes, debounce, etc. It is also uncapped now. The old tboards were capped at 36.

[phantomhitman]

Yea, you guys are pretty disillusioned. The AFA code has a couple extra cheater modes, wow.

if by you guys, you mean me, because i am the only one sticking with my guns and saying that the devilmag is better.
i have seen videos of the spydermags, they are decent. i have not seen many actualy spydermags in action, so i cannot honestly say it capped at this, or the programming on the board slows it down, etc. imo they will not keep up with a devil in a legal one shot one pull setting. i could care less about dienasty mode, hard or soft ramping, i only use legal setups even for practice. you might say it is up to the user, how can someone pull faster on a devil than a sypdermag........it is just that good ;) I hate spyder frames, cheaply made (material wise as well as ugly like i stated before) and not enough room for me to get my banana hands in the frame.
you are saving around $200 for something that is lower quality, not truly made for a mag, and imo (which is biased anyways :rolleyes: ) slower. but hey, if you can post a video of a spydermag honestly pulling around 16-19 bps i will be happy. it gives people more options, and if you are on a budget it would be better for you.
about the eye comment, at high speeds you are better off with an eye. it just makes sure the ball is in place befor you shoot, which can only help out.

[Lohman446]

Yea, you guys are pretty disillusioned. The AFA code has a couple extra cheater modes, wow. The spyder frame actually doesn't look half bad on a mag. In fact it looks very good with sticky grips on it. With a ramping chip, the tboard is right next to the predator. It has fully programmable ramping modes, debounce, etc. It is also uncapped now. The old tboards were capped at 36.


I'm not at all disillusioned. I understand prestige marketing and the minimal return on investment you get for spending once you reach a certain point. That being said I would still take a Devilmag over some pieced together marker, even if there is minimal performance gain. You may not beleive this but when marketting yourself in paintball, and looking for that extra competetive edge you get from the other team looking at what you shoot, well I would much rather have a custom marker than something I have, even if done well, cobbled together. Does it make a major performance difference? I honestly do not know the answer to that... to me it doesn't matter, I have other reasons for choosing a DevilMag that are taking into consideration factors other than performance.

[gortman44]

Ok, you get what you pay for. quick and simple. devil mad for mags, spyder mad for spyder. will work but will eventually brake. If you brake devil you send it in say you broke it an he will fix it. you brake your spyder, now what. You dont take it to just about anyone to get it fixed.

2. you have to find all the parts for a spyder frame. gonna take a while. devil already made to order. will just have to wait on the machinist to get Ga Devil the frames. He then will get it out as fast as possible.

you get what you pay for

[SCpoloRicker]

Mine's Better! No Mine! No Mine!


/where the hell is mine :confused: :p

[tonybhall]

Hey Guys,

Not trying to start a flame fest or even say that one frame is better than another. To each his own. But don't discount the spyder mag mod if you don't really know anything about it.

I have yet to hear or see any negative comments by anyone that has a spydermag about how they work.

As far as the spyder trigger frame being cheaply made and sure to break. Well, that's not entirely accurate for this discussion. While I would not play with an actual spyder cause I dont like the guns themselves, the actual trigger frame, selonoid and sear are well made. Those are really the only parts of the spyder used. We dont use the spyder board or any part of the spyder gun itself.

As far as the Devil mag frame being "made for a mag." What does that mean? That GA Devil drilled the holes for the frame screws to match the holes in the mag? Ok, well I drilled the holes in my ESP frame to match the holes in my mag. Therefore it is now "Made for a Mag."

Granted, if you like the way the Devil mag looks, want a 90* Frame and want eyes already installed and don't mind paying $550 to get it, then the Devil Mag is the way to go. But you don't have to trash the spyder mag to say something nice about the Devil Mag.

But if you are handy, have the right tools and know how to shop around. You can do your own spydermag mod for around $150 including frame, grips, trigger, new board and switch. Take the $400 you saved and go play some paintball.

[gortman44]

TONYBHALL dood I meant no offense towards you . peace. I was just saying that I think and have heard that the spyder solinoid would wear down because of mag on/ off. Dood you have a nice set up, and I could of made one too, but I fell in love with the devilmag. I might still make a spyder mod to test difference. sorry. Didnt mean to sound that way :eek: :( :) :ninja: :)

[warbeak2099]

I also did not mean to sound offensive to anyone.

The spyder noid will not wear out because of the mag on/off. You use a ULT just like in the devilmag. The two solenoids (centerflag and kingman) are of equal strength and quality.

The predator board will not be any faster than the tboard legally. Both are uncapped and with a 25g tswitch, a spydermag will have a lighter pull than the devilmag's 80g switch.

If I had a choice I would of course choose the devilmag. But the savings between the two is substantial. The quality and performance of the parts used are extremely comparible. It's not like the kingman noid will short and go nuts. It's the same design as the devilmag's centerflag noid. The only real difference is the frame and the board an eyes. Everything else (capacitor, noid, switch) is basically the same. A switch is a switch and a noid is a noid.

That having been said, the Tboard w/ ramp chip and Predator AFA board are comparible. They both are uncapped, fully programmable, support eyes, have multiple modes, blah blah blah. The Tboard is just much cheaper and is backed by a very customer friendly guy. Damon is just as focused with his customers as GA Devil. Both are stand-up guys.

Let's recap.

Devilmag:

Multiple modes
Fully programmable
ACE
Backed by great company/guy
Good quality
Fast
90* Frame or 45* Frame
Very expensive

Spydermag:

Multiple modes
Fully programmable
ACE
Backed by great company/guy (the tboard)
Same quality
Just as fast
45* Frame only (for the time)
Relatively cheap

Am I missing anything?

[tonybhall]

no prob. gortman,

Devil Mag or SpyderMag, it's still a Mag and that's what counts.

if you do a spydermag just make sure you have a ult. then you won't have any problems with the spyder selenoid. With a regular on/off, you would have problems.


if you decided to give it a shot let me know. i'll be glad to help.

[gortman44]

yeah I will. I just need to look for a cheap frame to get.you see any let me know.

I have level 10, and ult so no prob there.

I have 4 periods in my woodshop in highschool. SO I have access to tools and time to work on it. Dont ask me why i have so many periods or how. Everybody likes me and things just work out. plus I love wood working. :headbang:

[tonybhall]

check e-bay and pbn. you'll find poeple selling used imagines for like $75 for the whole gun.

sometimes you can even find just the frame for around $55-$65 on e-bay. I've been trying to figure out a way to buy the frame without the board.

[Lohman446]

Let's recap.

Devilmag:

Multiple modes
Fully programmable
ACE
Backed by great company/guy
Good quality
Fast
90* Frame or 45* Frame
Very expensive

Spydermag:

Multiple modes
Fully programmable
ACE
Backed by great company/guy (the tboard)
Same quality
Just as fast
45* Frame only (for the time)
Relatively cheap

Am I missing anything?


I think you've oversimplified it. Nothing against teh Spydermag theory but... well there's a certain prestige to paintball, and the marker one shoots is a big part of it. I would argue that for serious tournament teams that marker that they shoot is part of marketting themselves and just as important as the game they play as far as sponsorships are concerned. Fact of the matter is the Spyder frame is still a Spyder frame cobbled onto a mag and the Devilmag is a custom piece of art.

[tonybhall]

I think you've oversimplified it. Nothing against teh Spydermag theory but... well there's a certain prestige to paintball, and the marker one shoots is a big part of it. I would argue that for serious tournament teams that marker that they shoot is part of marketting themselves and just as important as the game they play as far as sponsorships are concerned. Fact of the matter is the Spyder frame is still a Spyder frame cobbled onto a mag and the Devilmag is a custom piece of art.

I don't think the the pioneers of the spyder mag ever had top level sponsored tournament players in mind. It was designed as an inexpensive way to turn your mech mag into fast and reliable e-marker. It has exceeded every one of its users expectations.

And what's this about cobbled? Are we talking aobut shoes or mags. :D

[SCpoloRicker]

Uh, I know of exactly one user of a full, 90*, board and eyes DM, and its phantonman. He loves his, yes, but not enough are in circulation for a good solid review.

I'd definately consider building a spydermag for giggles, and to have an (extra) loaner marker.

/bought full DM #2, waiting for it to get here.

[p8ntball365]

i definetly think the spydermag is the way to go. The difference in money spent is quite a bit. I'm kinda stuck now.

P.S. Does anyone think it would be easier to sell a spyder-mag or a mechanical mag?

[SCpoloRicker]

spydermag will have better resale, as its just cheap parts and labor. Ease of sale, well, that might depend on the quality of your work. Someone (tonyhball?) had mentioned that they are doing conversions, and I believe he's getting 75-100 for his work.

[p8ntball365]

kinda off topic, should i part my my mag or spydermag it then sell?

[warbeak2099]

I don't think the the pioneers of the spyder mag ever had top level sponsored tournament players in mind. It was designed as an inexpensive way to turn your mech mag into fast and reliable e-marker. It has exceeded every one of its users expectations.

And what's this about cobbled? Are we talking aobut shoes or mags. :D

That's what I meant. Not that the Spydermag is a better choice, just a cheaper one. It isn't intended to be a mod for tourny players. You don't see more than a handful of tourny teams using mags anyways. It's very cheap for what you get. You won't get a prestigious name, but it will perform very well and it comes very close to the devilmag at a fraction of the price.

[Codekevin0403]

I have just a few things to say:

1) No offense to mag owners (i myself own a mag), but i haven't seen many tourney teams using mags, devilmag or spydermag. So if it were me, i'd just go with the spyder esp frame

2) Also, many people believe spyders to be great starter guns, as they are very reliable and easy to maintain. So what is all this stuff about the sear breaking down or the parts breaking on you? If that was the case, how would all the beginning players fix it?

I'm not saying that the devilmag isn't beter. I think it way outperforms the spyder frame. But the reason most people by the devilmag frame isn't because of the firing modes, since many consider them cheating, but just so they can keep up with the high-end electros on the field. The spyder frame can keep up with them just as well, but at a fraction of the cost.

Well that's my 2 cents worth...

[tonybhall]

And just so everyone is clear, my spydermag is not held together with duct tape and Elmore's glue. While duct tape is a great invention, I actually use frame screws (imagine that) just like the ones used by AGD and even like the ones on the Devil Mag.

All this talk about it being "pieced together" and "cobbled" (whatever that means) has the negative conatation that somehow it's just on the verge of falling apart. Just for the record. My spydermag was done with a milling machine and a drill press. The same kind of tools that would be used by any company that would mass produce this type of item (except theirs would likely be automated).

The only thing that makes a Intelli or Devil or Hyper Frame "made for a Mag" is that they have the holes for the frame screws drilled to line up with the holes in the Mag and that the sear placement aligns with the on/off.

The spydermag conversion, when done the way my thread describes, has the effect of making the spyder sear take the place of the trigger rod on a mech mag. We drill the new front frame screw and mill out a channel for the mag sear to fit into. Presto! It's now "made for a Mag."

I know that some people hear Spyder and think "cheap." Ok, the frame is really just a hunk of metal. What about that is going to fall apart? We still use the ESP wiring. Wires are for the most part wires. Spyder wires, Devil wires, not much diff. We throw out the spyder board so that's not an issue. That just leaves the selonoid. Never had a problem with mine. And if I did, they are a dime a dozen so to speak. Got to love Radio Shack.

Point being, there is nothing cheap or poorly constructed about my Spydermag. I'll put it up against any Manufactured stock or aftermarket frame made.

[hitech]

Never had a problem with mine. And if I did, they are a dime a dozen so to speak. Got to love Radio Shack.


You wouldn't happen to have a part number for that solenoid, would you? Any change you can post it, or PM me with it? I actually get a fair number of people asking me if I know where to get one.

[tonybhall]

Hey Hitech,

How's it going. Haven't talked to you in a long while.

I don't know the part number but could probably find it with a little research. If I do I'll post it or PM it to you. A better person to ask might be Otter. He's the spyder guru, you know?

[moed59]

coolhand will do the exact same thing as a devilmag, and if im wrong tell me the diffrence besides the price. for 425 coolhand will install a pred board same as GA and he'll install eyes
so you'll have a satanmag instead
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=158401

[GA Devil]

coolhand will do the exact same thing as a devilmag, and if im wrong tell me the diffrence besides the price. for 425 coolhand will install a pred board same as GA and he'll install eyes
so you'll have a satanmag instead
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=158401



http://www.devilsden.tv/devilmag.htm

my upgrade 1 includes the eyes installed with the Predator and other upgrades I include for hyperframed mags.

[moed59]

devilmag is CHEAPER my bad GA wasnt trying to step on any toes

[bound for glory]

get hold of an emag or xmag.my emag shoots fast. sure, i'd love a devilmag. but to read some of these posts you'd swear agd markers are crap unless you have a bunch of work done to then :tard:

[warbeak2099]

Not crap just slow. Legally speaking. Of course you can grab an adjustable tank and bounce the crap out of a mag w/ rt style valve, but that won't do you any good if you're playing tournies. So unless you do some work or mods to them, they won't be able to compete speed wise with other markers. Sure there are some people who can walk a ult'd mech mag at 14bps, but that takes quite a bit of effort and isn't as practical as walking an electro with a 25g switch.

[bound for glory]

define slow :rolleyes: if you live in the fantasy world were you think you(or any human) can pull a trigger more than 14 times a second, ok, fine. than i guess my emag(with its trigger job) at about 14 bps is slow. does anyone in paintball really understand the very simple concept of 1 second? :rofl: hey lohman, help me out here...

[Lohman446]

On the theory of anyone saying they can shoot 99BPS... :rofl:

Prove it... legal trigger pulls, with the camera stationed to see your trigger pulls and releases and sound graph analysis linking those trigger pulls to the marker firing. Must be with paint. Must be able to see each trigger pull and release. Must be no more than one shot per pull and release of teh trigger. 15BPS sustained for 10 seconds - $20 by paypal to the first person who meets those requirements - I'm excluding Z-man and RRfireblade, who I have this sad suspicion are the only two people on this board that can come close to sustaining 15BPS.

Think of an engine going 1000 RPM - thats many car engines at a touch above idle. Now pick out something on that engine, a fan blade for instance - thats turning at roughly 16 revolutions per second.. you honestly think your fingers are moving that quickly? Better yet, pick out something like an idler pulley, put a big yellow line on it and watch it go around, its smaller like your finger walking a trigger, still think your shooting that fast?

That type of help?

Edit: Take a Shocker in rebound mode - FAST right. Over a chrono I have measured them at 13 to 14BPS... no faster.

Most people when they tell you there BPS divide by 2 and you might be close. Balls fall naturally at roughly 8BPS btw... drop some and see how quick that is. I expect most people in paintball actually shoot at about 7BPS in true semi modes.

[SpecialBlend2786]

This thread has gotten me REALLY interested in tonybhall and his spydermag mod things...

I shall now ponder :tard:

[warbeak2099]

No no no, not what I meant. First of all I meant mech mag, not an emag. Electro mags are not slow, I was saying that mech mags are not able to compete speed-wise. And don't think just because you can't hit above 14, no one else can. I can legally hit 17bps. That's not great or anything, but it's all you really need. 20bps is possible legally too. Higher than that is excessive and probably impossible to do legally.

[Lohman446]

No no no, not what I meant. First of all I meant mech mag, not an emag. Electro mags are not slow, I was saying that mech mags are not able to compete speed-wise. And don't think just because you can't hit above 14, no one else can. I can legally hit 17bps. That's not great or anything, but it's all you really need. 20bps is possible legally too. Higher than that is excessive and probably impossible to do legally.


Wanna bet? Seriously, I have given an open ended invitation to earn $20...

Wanna make it a real bet. Say so in the next hour, in this thread, and I will bet you $100 that you cannot meet the terms I outlined within seven days.

Video and soundgraph video of you shooting a marker that can be analyzed:

Showing legal trigger pulls and releases - your finger movements must be visible
No more than one shot per trigger pull and release - pulls to coincide with shots from marker
With paint
15+BPS sustained for 10 or more seconds

I choose.. hmm.. RRFireblade as judge, I trust him, I think he could be judge, and that makes an impartial judge. Fair enough?

[warbeak2099]

I don't have access to the equipment needed (vid camera), but if I did I wouldn't want to make some kind of monetary bet. I'd be happy to do it as a friendly bet. I know I have done 17bps for a couple shots over a chrony. Sustained? No, I've only done about 13-14bps sustained. I only meant I hit 17 as in I got up as high as that. But there are people out there who can do 20.

But there's my point. A mech mag can't compete with that. It's hard to get even 15bps sustained on an electro. On a mech mag it's even harder. I'll say it again, a mech mag cannot compete speed-wise with an electro mag or other electro marker. On a mech the average joe can probably only sustain 9bps at a time. Again, not on par speed-wise. Can it compete in other fields? Hell yea, mags are some of the most durable, reliable, easy to work on, consistant markers out there. I love mine. That's why I'm making it electro, so I can compete not only in all other fields, but in speed now too.

[bound for glory]

lohman, that was the help i was after :clap:

[tonybhall]

On the theory of anyone saying they can shoot 99BPS... :rofl:

Prove it... legal trigger pulls, with the camera stationed to see your trigger pulls and releases and sound graph analysis linking those trigger pulls to the marker firing. Must be with paint. Must be able to see each trigger pull and release. Must be no more than one shot per pull and release of teh trigger. 15BPS sustained for 10 seconds - $20 by paypal to the first person who meets those requirements - I'm excluding Z-man and RRfireblade, who I have this sad suspicion are the only two people on this board that can come close to sustaining 15BPS.

Think of an engine going 1000 RPM - thats many car engines at a touch above idle. Now pick out something on that engine, a fan blade for instance - thats turning at roughly 16 revolutions per second.. you honestly think your fingers are moving that quickly? Better yet, pick out something like an idler pulley, put a big yellow line on it and watch it go around, its smaller like your finger walking a trigger, still think your shooting that fast?

That type of help?

Edit: Take a Shocker in rebound mode - FAST right. Over a chrono I have measured them at 13 to 14BPS... no faster.

Most people when they tell you there BPS divide by 2 and you might be close. Balls fall naturally at roughly 8BPS btw... drop some and see how quick that is. I expect most people in paintball actually shoot at about 7BPS in true semi modes.

VERY WELL SAID. Thank you.

Here is a funny and related story. Everyone that sees my Spydermag video (but does not read the post) comments on how fast it's ripping. But if I tell someone my spydermag has hit 14 bps (for 1 sec) they're like, "That's slow. I can do that with my mech mag." Then when I tell them that I can only hit 15 to 16 (not sustained) bps on my Alias, they say that I must be slow. Funny how no one on the receiveing end of that has ever said that to me.
Just goes to prove, most people have no idea how fast they actually shoot or how fast 14 bps really is.

[tonybhall]

This thread has gotten me REALLY interested in tonybhall and his spydermag mod things...

I shall now ponder :tard:

Hey,

Check out my thread over on PBN. It has Pics, vids and instructions. And let me know if you have any questions or need any help. Not looking to make any money off of you, just like to help mag people. Good Luck.


Anyone think I should post that stuff here on AO?

[Lohman446]

lohman, that was the help i was after :clap:

Amusing how many people shoot 15BPS + until you ask for proof, offer a wager, etc. Then it becomes amazing how many people technologically cannot provide it, or they meant 15BPS for two balls... or :rolleyes:

[bound for glory]

oi!oi! to that! i can hit 7 bps in a 1/2 second for $50 if you're still wanting to bet :shooting: :rofl:

[warbeak2099]

What, I can hit 17bps for a couple shots. It's not that hard. But it is hard to sustain that legally (for me). Other people are faster on the trigger. I'm not a god or anything. I just said that I can hit 17bps on a light/short trigger. I can sustain 12-13bps. That is pretty slow though. I know I'm slow, I never said I was the god of rippingness. I admit that I do need to work on it.
And geez, sorry for not owning a digital vid camera.

[NUCKING FUTS!]

When i get my spydermag, ill make a vid of me trying to hold up as high a constant speed as possible. I know i can sustain 15 bps for at least a few seconds, but probably not for 10. My fingers are just too tired by then.

[kurama]

I believe that some spydermags have trouble reliably tripping the sear, but that's most likely error on behalf of the person who made it. The devilmag is a great looking frame actually built for the mag, and the spyder is an at-home modified frame to fit a spyder.