Pistols

[sabrefanpc]

Pistol owners please help!

Here is my dilema. I wont be able to get a cocealed weapons permit for another few years, so my plan ideal plan will have to wait (.40 kimber or svi). So my plan NOW is just to go for a pistol for the range. I have no problem shellin out for the one I'll keep in a few years, but for now, I'd rather a cheap one. Basically what I'm looking for is the tippy of handguns. Accurate and reasonably reliable. Weight, size, ftf, fte, volume don't matter, just accuracy and durability for the range. It would be nice if it were 1911 style but not bad if its not.

Also, where can I find one cheap? I dont even care if its used. I live in SoFla, so finding a gun show or shop is no problem but I dunno if I should look at magazines, online, direct from manufacturer etc.

Thanks for any guidance! :hail:

[Eagle]

I'd recomend the Baretta M9. Standard police and military issue, and you can usually find them fairly cheap.

[noahyay]

i second that

or a glock

[sabrefanpc]

ill be looking in to that. I would go for a 9mm for this one btw. cheaper ammo hehe.

any more suggestions? and where should I look for prices?

[SAW]

I'd recomend the Baretta M9. Standard police and military issue, and you can usually find them fairly cheap.
M9

[BeaverEater]

Have you shot a pistol before/ how much experience do you have. If your looking for something just to shoot at the range, i would recommend a .22 pistol since its ammo is super cheap. Or just buy the gun you want for your concealed weapon, and before very familer with it.

[sabrefanpc]

.22 rifles in the scrub is the extent of my experience. Looking around at some prices for used M9s (~$500) I think I may just go ahead and buy an infinity or kimber...

[xXHavokXx]

Dont get a baretta M9. If you have the cash spring for a SIgArms gun. Sexy reliable and accurate.

Also, trythings out before you buy them.







Boo to Glocks

[Eagle]

Personally, I like Glocks, I've got my conceal carry permit, and carry a G26. But they are a little expensive, that's why I thought of the baretta.

[WickeDKlowN]

We have a S&W .45. Only shot a clip or 2 in the back yard, It's nice but I can't hit a damn thing with it.

[SAW]

We have a S&W .45. Only shot a clip or 2 in the back yard, It's nice but I can't hit a damn thing with it.
Practice.

Lots of it.

[WickeDKlowN]

Meh. We've got a 30-30 in the garage incase we need to kill something :ninja:

And there's a 410 next to the door for those pesky coons and armodillos(sp?).

[sabrefanpc]

i plan on shooting as many different models as I can, but looking at prices I am leaning toward something like a kimber or sig over beretta for now.

[TylerDurden]

Baretta M9

Not trying to be anal or anything, but it's a Beretta M9 or 92FS in case you need to google it.

Berettas are good guns, but the 92FS is a relatively large handgun for concealed carry.

Taurus does make 2 versions of titanium pistols in both semi-auto, or revolver form. My

personal favorates are Sig Sauers; in particular the P225 in .40 S&W. Sigs are standard

issue for the US Secret Service. Firearms are a personal preference as I'm sure you know.

So just pick one that feels right to you, and practice, practice, practice. :shooting:

[kd5rcw]

Since you say you have only ever shot a .22 rifle I will give you my thoughts. Save your money for now. Berettas are too expensive and bulky in my opinion. Kimbers and Sigs are awesome guns but again they are expensive. Since you said you were interested in a 1911 style you should look at a Ruger 22/45. It is a .22 pistol that has the same weight and feel of a 1911. Several models are available. The models with bull barrels are super accurate. They are also pretty inexpensive. A .22 can't be beat for the range. They are cheap to shoot all day. Their mild recoil will also keep you from developing bad habits as you are starting out. (like flinching as you anticipate the gun going off) Just remember, trigger time is trigger time. It dosen't matter if it is a .22 or a .45. Shooting is only going to make you a better shot.

[sabrefanpc]

UPDATE

spent the day at the range today. shot a few different 9mm, and I must say the rueger was very nice. Posed my original question to the owner and he suggested the rueger. My only concern is that they are so much cheaper than everything else for a reason (ie shotty materials, workmanship). and whatever your suggestions are, im looking for a DA/SA, decocking only

[CrimsonTurkey]

Once you haev the permit grab yourself a Last Legend Zatiochi style cane sword. Those tend to elict a somewhat more intense psychological response.

http://www.armsofvalour.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AOVL&Product_Code=LL015&Category_Code=O

Very good blade, I have used mine for cutting a few times as well as in the Ryu dojo. That and you really feel like a very bad donkey walking around with that thing.

PS: The full length cashmere coat it a must.

[sabrefanpc]

walking through downtown miami with a katana :spit_take .... I deffinately doubt anyone would mess with me.

florida doesnt have a length law either... ;) not easy to hide though

[CrimsonTurkey]

This is easy to hide though... it looks like a cane, thus the straight blade.

[xXHavokXx]

UPDATE

spent the day at the range today. shot a few different 9mm, and I must say the rueger was very nice. Posed my original question to the owner and he suggested the rueger. My only concern is that they are so much cheaper than everything else for a reason (ie shotty materials, workmanship). and whatever your suggestions are, im looking for a DA/SA, decocking only


Decocking works great with a Sig! My 239 is loads of fun. Also check out the .357 Sig round....it's a blast, and feels great out of 226 228 229 and 239 model Sigs.


Remember what Bhudda says, People who carry Glocks are impotent.



(Sorry my friends are huge Glock fans so I have to let out my distaste for them here as my hand is not shaped like and oven mit and does not like to be grated.)

[Konigballer]

I believe Para Ordanance manufactures a few different '1911 style' compacts in .45 and at reasonable prices for a 1911. Whatever handgun make or model you choose, if you are going to get a concealed carry permit, then it is a reality that the handgun you choose may be called upon to save your life. In that case I would think long and hard about the caliber of handgun you choose. When talking about self defense and situations involving 'kill or be killed', I've often heard the phrase 'never use a handgun with a caliber that doesnt start with 4...'.

Just for a better known real-world example, in one incident rapper 50 Cent got shot NINE times with 9mm bullets, including one to the face, and he's still up and running quit well... ;) I've read to many times of people literally being riddled with 9mm's, and smaller caliber rounds, and living to tell or still being able to resist. The worst I ever read was of a armed gunmen being shot 17 times by police 9mm's before dropping. An autopsy revealed that only the LAST bullet was imedietly fatal, the other 16 wounds were not, and allowed him to still resist while bleeding him to death. Of course different 9mm ammo loads and can give you more stopping power, but the same can be had for the already harder hitting calibers like the .40 and .45.

[Lohman446]

I believe Para Ordanance manufactures a few different '1911 style' compacts in .45 and at reasonable prices for a 1911. Whatever handgun make or model you choose, if you are going to get a concealed carry permit, then it is a reality that the handgun you choose may be called upon to save your life. In that case I would think long and hard about the caliber of handgun you choose. When talking about self defense and situations involving 'kill or be killed', I've often heard the phrase 'never use a handgun with a caliber that doesnt start with 4...'.

Just for a better known real-world example, in one incident rapper 50 Cent got shot NINE times with 9mm bullets, including one to the face, and he's still up and running quit well... ;) I've read to many times of people literally being riddled with 9mm's, and smaller caliber rounds, and living to tell or still being able to resist. The worst I ever read was of a armed gunmen being shot 17 times by police 9mm's before dropping. An autopsy revealed that only the LAST bullet was imedietly fatal, the other 16 wounds were not, and allowed him to still resist while bleeding him to death. Of course different 9mm ammo loads and can give you more stopping power, but the same can be had for the already harder hitting calibers like the .40 and .45.

Don't discount ammo starting with .357. Either Magnum or Sig the prior has proven tremendous stopping power in the real world. The later has show all indications of exceptional stopping power in controlled tests on par with ammos starting in .4

Then again, Ruger makes some Alaskan guide series revolver that is in theory concealable (very short barrel, under 3") that's chambered in .454 Cassul (sp)

PS... never discount any ammo ending in gauge either :D

[teufelhunden]

PS... never discount any ammo ending in gauge either :D


Thanks for the laugh of the morning!
:cheers:

[SCpoloRicker]

boo on glocks. Sig and HK are my preference.

[Hasty8]

Must be nice living outside of a "lefty" state. I can't even hold a pistol in a store without a license.

:(

[xXHavokXx]

I live in a lefty state. I hold em all the time and rent em (like the DE we rented). I even own 2

[Blennidae]

I personally don't subscribe to the whole thing with 9mm not being up to the job, and that the ".4x" calibers are required. There are a lot of variables involved. I think shot placement is fairly important. There is another fairly recent real world event that had a DEA agent shoot himself point blank in the leg with a .40, and he never went down, and continued to talk about gun safety for a couple minutes.

The fact that there is so much data on shootings is why there is all this talk about caliber x being better than caliber y. But for every example where x fails, there is one where y fails as well.

Pick what works for you, and practice with it. Get it so it becomes second nature.

If you want a one shot stop, shoot someone in the head with a rifle. ;)

[xXHavokXx]

I dont believe in one shot stops hence why my homedefense set up is 7 hydra shocks and 6 talons from a .40 S&W. If a human survives that then ill have to run back to the safe and grab the 357 sig. Odds are unless youre rambo youre not gonna make it.

[Lohman446]

My .45 with Federal Hydroshocks is next to my bed in a quick access safe - 10 shots (used to be Golden Sabres)

From there its ten feet to a short barreled twelve gauge loaded with 3 slugs followed by three 00 rounds.

If that doesn't do it I have 45 rounds of 9MM in my Mac-11 (complete with laser red dot sight)

I'm good

[kosmo]

Just to clarify something, he said he wants something reliable. That means the m9 is instantly disqualified from even being considered as maybe something even worth mentioning. Cuz it sucks. Really bad.

[Konigballer]

"Don't discount ammo starting with .357. Either Magnum or Sig the prior has proven tremendous stopping power in the real world."

yeah they've got stopping power, they also have a problem with a little thing called over-penetration. To me, in a 'real-world situation' this is very bad. Whether your outside or in your house, what good is shooting a threat if the bullet goes right through the person without delivering most of it's impact energy and then hits, or penetrates, whatevers behind it. After the police come and you have to explain your actions, you dont also want to be charged for disabling your neighbors car because it was unfortunately behind the guy when that magnum bullet went clean through him! Or God forbid your rounds go through the walls inside your house and hit people you definately were not aiming for.

[Lohman446]

"Don't discount ammo starting with .357. Either Magnum or Sig the prior has proven tremendous stopping power in the real world."

yeah they've got stopping power, they also have a problem with a little thing called over-penetration. To me, in a 'real-world situation' this is very bad. Whether your outside or in your house, what good is shooting a threat if the bullet goes right through the person without delivering most of it's impact energy and then hits, or penetrates, whatevers behind it. After the police come and you have to explain your actions, you dont also want to be charged for disabling your neighbors car because it was unfortunately behind the guy when that magnum bullet went clean through him! Or God forbid your rounds go through the walls inside your house and hit people you definately were not aiming for.

Well this has proven to be an issue with both .357 rounds it can be helped by the selection of proper ammunition. The .357's get there tremendous stopping power from the speed of the bullet - and there is the risk of overpenetration with all but the most fragile of rounds. You bring up a point, but it is a point that can be overcome.

[sabrefanpc]

WHEN I carry, it will most likely be a .40

until then, 9mm is cheapest for range, and with some +p hollowpoints give me enough stoping power if I need it. Like someone trying to mug me outside a shooting range...


it could happen...

[xXHavokXx]

I <3 my 40.

It just feels like it will kill someone deader.

[teufelhunden]

Just to clarify something, he said he wants something reliable. That means the m9 is instantly disqualified from even being considered as maybe something even worth mentioning. Cuz it sucks. Really bad.


I was under the impression that the problem did not lie within the M9 itself, but the lowest-bidder magazines the government decided to purchase.

[TheProfessional]

I was under the impression that the problem did not lie within the M9 itself, but the lowest-bidder magazines the government decided to purchase.

Yes and no. The Beretta M92FS is a decent gun however the Govt. and Military officials are thinking or replacing it with another side arm. The Marines, for example, are being issued a new .45 made by Kimber that is specially built to match their needs, especially in the area of fire power. The Beretta M92FS, which has been issued for more than a decade, is nearing its end. The 9mm is an accurate calliber yes, but lacks the stopping power of a .45. Do you want to know why? Of you course you do, so I will tell you. The 9mm is a bullet that, like most bullets when it is fired, gives off that nice spinning rotation which increases your accuracy.( oh and by the way a 9mm is accurate for up to 75ft, my friend is ex-Delta and he hits whatever he wants from that range) The .45 is a tumbling bullet which means, their is little to none rifling in the barrel itself. As a result the bullet tumbles and upon hitting its target it will cause sufficient amount of damage far more than a 9mm. A great example to demonstrate this is tie two logs on seperate sides of branch on a tree, make sure they are close to the same thickness and weight, fire the 9mm at one log and watch it sway back and fortha tad. Then fire the .45 at the other log and watch it spin almost completely around. I believe then you can make your decision on which calliber gun to decide. Oh and by the way Government agents such as the CIA, DEA, NSA, and other orginizations not mentioned here will soon be issued the Inifinity .45 cal. pistols. Which are extraordinarily efficient.

[teufelhunden]

Well, of course, I just decided to throw out the fact that it's not the best round ;)

Any details on the Kimber handgun? And how far out the butt we're going to be paying for it?

[Blennidae]

Yes and no. The Beretta M92FS is a decent gun however the Govt. and Military officials are thinking or replacing it with another side arm. The Marines, for example, are being issued a new .45 made by Kimber that is specially built to match their needs, especially in the area of fire power. The Beretta M92FS, which has been issued for more than a decade, is nearing its end. The 9mm is an accurate calliber yes, but lacks the stopping power of a .45. Do you want to know why? Of you course you do, so I will tell you. The 9mm is a bullet that, like most bullets when it is fired, gives off that nice spinning rotation which increases your accuracy.( oh and by the way a 9mm is accurate for up to 75ft, my friend is ex-Delta and he hits whatever he wants from that range) The .45 is a tumbling bullet which means, their is little to none rifling in the barrel itself. As a result the bullet tumbles and upon hitting its target it will cause sufficient amount of damage far more than a 9mm. A great example to demonstrate this is tie two logs on seperate sides of branch on a tree, make sure they are close to the same thickness and weight, fire the 9mm at one log and watch it sway back and fortha tad. Then fire the .45 at the other log and watch it spin almost completely around. I believe then you can make your decision on which calliber gun to decide. Oh and by the way Government agents such as the CIA, DEA, NSA, and other orginizations not mentioned here will soon be issued the Inifinity .45 cal. pistols. Which are extraordinarily efficient.

Wow, just... wow.

[txaggie08]

never seen a 45 tumble, especialy since ANY bullet tumbling would make no sense. if ammunition was intentionaly designed to tumble, we would be firing big 50 & 55 caliber musket balls. they would even be more accurate

[Konigballer]

Originally Posted by TheProfessional:

"my friend is ex-Delta and he hits whatever he wants from that range"


Wow, you know an 'ex-Delta' guy too! Sweet, I cant remember how many times me an my ex-Delta friend go play pool down at the bar with my neighbors, their all ex-special forces and black-ops agents as well, and then knock back a few beers with my uncle, John Rambo... :rolleyes:

your what, like 17...and you hang out with a Delta operator....dont we all :p

[stondroopy]

i had a ruger p289 9mm,it wasnt bad, fairly inexpensive. I got mine 7 years ago and have two 15 round magazines for it :D Not the most smooth or accurate pistol out there,but for defending yourself it wasnt bad. I fired mine often with no problems what so ever. Im not sure about current models of ruger pistols but the ones ive seen resemble the one i used to own.

[xXHavokXx]

Yes and no. The Beretta M92FS is a decent gun however the Govt. and Military officials are thinking or replacing it with another side arm. The Marines, for example, are being issued a new .45 made by Kimber that is specially built to match their needs, especially in the area of fire power. The Beretta M92FS, which has been issued for more than a decade, is nearing its end. The 9mm is an accurate calliber yes, but lacks the stopping power of a .45. Do you want to know why? Of you course you do, so I will tell you. The 9mm is a bullet that, like most bullets when it is fired, gives off that nice spinning rotation which increases your accuracy.( oh and by the way a 9mm is accurate for up to 75ft, my friend is ex-Delta and he hits whatever he wants from that range) The .45 is a tumbling bullet which means, their is little to none rifling in the barrel itself. As a result the bullet tumbles and upon hitting its target it will cause sufficient amount of damage far more than a 9mm. A great example to demonstrate this is tie two logs on seperate sides of branch on a tree, make sure they are close to the same thickness and weight, fire the 9mm at one log and watch it sway back and fortha tad. Then fire the .45 at the other log and watch it spin almost completely around. I believe then you can make your decision on which calliber gun to decide. Oh and by the way Government agents such as the CIA, DEA, NSA, and other orginizations not mentioned here will soon be issued the Inifinity .45 cal. pistols. Which are extraordinarily efficient.


Ok, no. .45's dont tumble. My friends kimber is very well rifled, he also blows nice little holes into targets that are round. The baby eagle in .45 I thinking about picking up in 45 doesnt tumble either, something about that gun lets me hollow out the X ring from 15 yards. Tumbling bullets lack accuracy. Also, CIA , DEA, NSA may be under those two huge contracts just awarded to SIG and H&K. The Air Force is using the M11 (Sig P228), the SEALS have Sig 226s in their arsenals, 9's and 40's not 45's. The .45 ACP has it's uses but the .40 S&W and .357 SIG has a huge power behind it. A ton of LEA's , the FBI, and the Secret Service have switched to them. They punch through car doors, windshields and drop BG's day in day out. Also the 9x19 round does have some power in the +P+ loadings some LEO's use.

Personally I'm not a 9x19 fan but I dont discount it, my 40 holds 12+1, the same gun in 9 holds 16+ 1, while a Kimber holds 7+1. Cant go wrong with good ammo like Ranger T's (+P+), Cor Bon (+P) or other hot loads in high numbers from a 9x19

[kosmo]

M9s suck for lots of reasons. The magazines are terrible, but that can be fixed a little bit by taking them apart and stretching the spring out so it pushes a little harder. But they still jam like a mofo. They still have terrible balance. The safety is in an absolutely terrible spot. The gun feels like a toy because of all the slack in the slide when its put together. And because of that when you charge the weapon if youre not wearing a glove youre likely to pinch your skin and get it stuck, which hurts like a motherfudger. And if you are wearing a glove, it pinches the glove and the slide gets stuck. :mad: :mad:

[Vex]

There is another fairly recent real world event that had a DEA agent shoot himself point blank in the leg with a .40, and he never went down, and continued to talk about gun safety for a couple minutes.

Here's the video. It's pretty hilarious and scary at the same time. Listen closely to what he's saying--that's the funny part!

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/deaclass.html