I punched a kid

[gc82000]

Ok I did not punch him but I really wanted too.

There is this kid in the local PB league here that just irratates me. always touching my equipment, tools and other stuff. I really dont know him, but he plays with some of my soccer players. So he feels that he can come up to me and start going through my bag like it was cool. The first time I cuaght him, I yelled at him and told him to stay away. The second time :mad: I pushed him and he went behind one of my soccer player. At this point I was already furious, but he still came up to me like it was all some kind of joke that nobody understood but me. Images of me laying out this seventh grader came popping joyiously in my mind.

Now I dont mind him or other ppl asking questions or for some advice. But dont touch my stuff. And this kid asks the stupidest questions, like if you get shot in the mouth does it count? or if I shot someone but it does not break do I shot him again? :confused:

Some advice on how to deal with this kid would be great appreciated.

[E r y k]

just remember you were once a kid like that also...

[Automaggot68]

just remember you were once a kid like that also...
Nope.
I can honestly say I was never like that.
When someone told me, if the paint break on you, you're out. Didn't matter where it was on me, i knew it was OUT.
If it didn't break, keep shooting.
I also didn't touch anyone else's things.
I was a newbie, i'll admit that, we all were.
But I was never like that kid.

[gc82000]

Hell no I was ten when i started playing, but I was raised with reespect. I would never go into someone elses things if I did not have permission. I might have been a newb but I was never disrepectful.

[ApexAZ]

Just talk to him and tell him to leave your things alone. Do it before you assault him :)

[mag88888]

i agree. give him a talk. or touch his stuff. see how he likes it.

[Glickman]

i agree. give him a talk. or touch his stuff. see how he likes it.

thats how u end up in trouble.

its just murphys law, the little female dogs always get away.


thats why you play a little game called iron man :D




hey, if 6 people happen to sneak on the field and help you, so be it, its iron man :D :clap:

[MadPSIence]

goggle him, lol :headbang:

on the field of course...

[gortman44]

ya, you got to let him know not to touch your stuff because obviosly he wasnt raised seeing anything wrong with it. Im only 18 but I have ran into a couple of kids like that in my woodshop. I am serious with my woodworking and when they come over and just pick the stuff up, I almost throw a tantrum like a kid. All i do is ask him not to touch it and be almost like a freind. But you cant tell him or force him to do anything. When you ask him, give him a reason, even if it is a lie. Hell respect you then.

I live near LA. Trust me, I know.

[Carbon]

dont lay a hand on him. it is never worth it.

[gc82000]

goggle him, lol :headbang:

on s the field of course...
I was going to shoot him in the neck on the field :rolleyes: maybe. :rofl:

that is just the thing he does not listen even when I do talk to him. I tell them not to double up in the bunkers he does it anyways. I can say all the thingd I say, such as "either you are shotting, being shot at or you are moving", or "refill before you move", or "dont mill your tank " would not not put it past him :rolleyes: . But he will not take in and make use of it.
He is the type of player that will bunker down when he thinks ppl are shooting at him.


No respect this one :mad:

But can I throw some balls at then

[CKY_Alliance]

dont lay a hand on him. it is never worth it.

Oh it is worth it.But dont do it (im not promoting violence. Im just kidding) There are some 12 year olders at my field that are "refs" and that makes them gods so they can do whatever the F they want(so they think) It does get annoying but talk to him. like everyone else said he probably wasnt taught to respect others belongings.

[onedude36]

^^^
I would never do that without asking unless we were friend for awhile...

obviously you two arent friends...

Any way, you could try to scare him so he will leave you alone. :confused:

[thorn]

im 13, and in seventh grade. but i try my best to stay at least 5 ft away from others equipment, and get the owners permission before i go closer and look at it.

[Maggot6]

Well, it seems that my friend who I have never really went paintballing without and I always ask eachother before we touch eachothersstuff. Even if you two WERE friends, it would be understandable if you got annoyed at him messing around your gear bag.

Choice #1 - If you do not care of consequences(and are aware), and know his parents wont get involved, just straight up ***** him out, and don't be afraid to back down. If he persists in saying "hey man I was just joking" or something similar, just remind him in the least polite way possible that you are not his friend... And if he still "pisses you off" do what was in your thread title...

Choice #2 - Tell him that you don't like the people going into your things. And do this in a fashion that you are not completely blaming him, and so he sorta has an empathy for you. And if he still does it, Just get a little more enforcive, and say you better stop going through my stuff. And if it still goes,, call his parents and tell them that their kid is going through your things, and wont stop. And tell them that you would appreciate it if they told him what he was allowed to do or not to do. They should get the picture

Hint - Go with choice 2...

[maglover728]

This guy sounds desperate for the attention of some one and guess what, he has picked you. I know what you are talking about with the dumb questions and such. It sounds to me like he knows that you will pay attention to him, even though he knows you don't like him, and so he keeps coming back. Let him know that you will talk with him about paintball on a players level, and then entertain him for a bit. If you judge that he has been unable to accept the attention you have allotted him with out getting greedy or crossing the lines of messing with your stuff, than you have every right and a clear conscience to start to ignore him.

[Conversekidz]

Next time he touches your stuff say this.

"Hey if you touch my PB gear one more time i'm going to shank you with a knife"

[Carbon]

i hope you see the two sides of this situation.

1) you have a young yet very annoying kid that messes with your stuff. You want to deck him and hes is worthless blah blah bvlah


2) you have a young and very impressionable kid that copies and emulates what you do.


now you're obv a young kid. Maybe, you'll realize that there is a golden oppertunity for you to show him what right.

[Automaggot68]

i hope you see the two sides of this situation.

1) you have a young yet very annoying kid that messes with your stuff. You want to deck him and hes is worthless blah blah bvlah


2) you have a young and very impressionable kid that copies and emulates what you do.


now you're obv a young kid. Maybe, you'll realize that there is a golden oppertunity for you to show him what right.


That was one of the best posts I've seen here on AO, in a LONG time.
Good Job, Carbon. :cheers:

[tyrion2323]

Whatever you do, DON'T HIT HIM! (or hurt him)

Now, it seems as if he really needs a lesson in manners. Do so in a thoughtful, mature manner. Put yourself on the "high road" so that when the situation is solved, he (and others) will respect you, not dislike you.

[FallNAngel]

Here's what I'd do in this situation... Grab him by the hair at the top back of his head and pull down. Get a nice firm grip close to the skin and pull down. There's no need to yank, you're not looking to pull hair out or worse, you're just looking to tilt his head up and he'll probably bend at the waist (backward) and start flailing at your arm. At this point, you should adequately have his attention and you can nicely explain you don't want to see him around your gear.

Now, this really applies if this kid is younger than you. He probably won't think to even try to fight if you're older. If you're the same size / age, just crack him in the face and tell him you told him to leave your stuff alone.


i hope you see the two sides of this situation.

1) you have a young yet very annoying kid that messes with your stuff. You want to deck him and hes is worthless blah blah bvlah


2) you have a young and very impressionable kid that copies and emulates what you do.


Obviously he's not emulating what he does... he's already told the kid several times to stay away from his gear and he keeps coming back. Burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice...

[Enemy]

Next time he touches your stuff say this.

"Hey if you touch my PB gear one more time i'm going to shank you with a knife"

i love that one!!


im a ref so sometimes my gun and stuff gets left out and ill turn around and see someone holding it i will go up to them say is that yours? ofcoarse they say no and i say then why the heck are you holding it this is how you get hurt!!!!!!! they put it down!

[Dryden]

Choice #2 - Tell him that you don't like the people going into your things.Actually, I wouldn't recommend this, because it will come off as whiney and selfish, and this kid certainly won't respect you after that. Rather than say "I don't like people going through my things" you should tell him straight up that rummaging through others stuff if flat out rude and he is the one that is in the wrong.

If it were me, and the kid wasn't taking the hint, I'd talk to his close friends about it and tell them that if they don't straighten their buddy out, they're not welcome to play any longer. Appeal to one of his friends who does know him better and make him reasonable for keeping the kid in check.

Also, you should bite the bullet and get a rigid gear box and put a padlock on it when you're not around. If the kid is only looking through your gear and not actually attempting to take any of it, you should (sadly) consider yourself blessed.

[SCpoloRicker]

i hope you see the two sides of this situation.

1) you have a young yet very annoying kid that messes with your stuff. You want to deck him and hes is worthless blah blah bvlah


2) you have a young and very impressionable kid that copies and emulates what you do.


now you're obv a young kid. Maybe, you'll realize that there is a golden oppertunity for you to show him what right.

Ding!


FallNAngel: you're wrong, and immature.

[ben-afficial]

hey conversekid.....i dont think any one...especially an adult should tell a kid hes going to shank him with a knife....maybe just cut of his hands for a trophie....or not :dance:

[hitech]

He is looking for attention and acceptance. He asks stupid questions because he can't think of any better ones to ask. He is trying to get your attention. He wants to talk with you. It's the only way he can figure out to start a conversation. Next time, answer the question and then start a conversation with him. One that he can be a part of. You might be surprised.

As for touching your stuff. He is looking for acceptance by acting as though he is already accepted. Next time he picks up something, ask him if he would like to "check it out". Let him check it out and then ask for it back. When he is going through you bag, ask him if there is something you can help him with. Then, make sure you let him know, in a polite and non-threatening manner, that it is not acceptable to go through your bag. He needs to ask first.

You might be surprised at the change. Then again, you might not. But it's worth a try. :D

:cheers:

[JimmyBeam]

i remember the days where I could hit someone and not worry about going to jail.......

[Spartan X]

Say this the next time you see him in your stuff:


"Get the **** out my my stuff. I've told you more then once, and if I see it again I'm going to have a talk with your parents and the field owner!"

[FallNAngel]

FallNAngel: you're wrong, and immature.

Well, perhaps you can explain how I'm wrong and immature. He's obviously *NOT* emulating him... gc82000 never said he went through someone eleses stuff and the kid just happens to be doing the same to him. The kid has already been told twice now that he's not welcome to go through his stuff... apparently the kid doesn't get the idea. The first or second time, sure. After literally being pushed away and told to knock it off and the kid just laughs? That's the sign of someone who just isn't "getting it". Personally, I care if some kid comes over and looks at my gun, or wants to hold it or play with it. Hell, I've let people I didn't know go out and play with my gun. But actually rifling through my things when I've told you not to?! Not going to happen.



Say this the next time you see him in your stuff:


"Get the **** out my my stuff. I've told you more then once, and if I see it again I'm going to have a talk with your parents and the field owner!"

Sounds like a plan :clap:

[SlartyBartFast]

Dealing with this particular kid is one thing, the safety of your gear is another.

If you're not wearing/carrying everything of value onto the field, invest in a locking box/bag that you can also secure to something.

A simple trunk/box from army surplus with a padlock on the front and a wire/chain passed through the carry handles will suffice.

[FSU_Paintball]

If nothing else, you can get in trouble for punching a minor.

So pay off another minor to punch him ;)

[SCpoloRicker]

Well, perhaps you can explain how I'm wrong and immature.

Personally, I care if some kid comes over and looks at my gun, or wants to hold it or play with it. Hell, I've let people I didn't know go out and play with my gun. But actually rifling through my things when I've told you not to?! Not going to happen.

If you are concerned about your equipment, secure it; either in a car or a locked gear box.


Grab him by the hair at the top back of his head and pull down. Get a nice firm grip close to the skin and pull down. There's no need to yank, you're not looking to pull hair out or worse, you're just looking to tilt his head up and he'll probably bend at the waist (backward) and start flailing at your arm.
--
If you're the same size / age, just crack him in the face and tell him you told him to leave your stuff alone.

That's assault. As in; he calls the cops (or tells mom, who calls the cops) and files charges. As in; you go in the back of the car with cuffs on. You most likely were saying this in passing, but what you advised is assault. Internet bravado is one thing, but in the U.S. we live in, lawsuits and criminal prosecution is quite easy to get yourself mixed up with.

That's why you're immature.

Now, as other members have stated, you can try and lead by example. I know the kid has been told several times. I assume hes of that million questions, constant fidgeting, few years younger type.

AO, imo, is great because we try and be positive ambassadors of the sport. Even when kids are being irritating, mainly because its fairly likely we were once an annoying kid. I know I was when I first got into it. But, your job as an experienced player is to teach newer players how to act. Not to carry on like a spoiled, self-important jerk.

That's why you're wrong.

/"I'll shank you" was another brilliant piece of reparte, whomever that was :rolleyes:

[FallNAngel]

If you are concerned about your equipment, secure it; either in a car or a locked gear box.

I mistyped when I posted that. I meant to type "I don't care", which is also supported by the fact that I later say "Hell, I've let people I didn't know go out and play with my gun."


That's assault. As in; he calls the cops (or tells mom, who calls the cops) and files charges. As in; you go in the back of the car with cuffs on. You most likely were saying this in passing, but what you advised is assault. Internet bravado is one thing, but in the U.S. we live in, lawsuits and criminal prosecution is quite easy to get yourself mixed up with.

Technically, so would pushing him and he's probably more likely to get hurt from it too. If someone's parents are going to file assault charges because someone pulled their kids hair because he couldn't keep his hands to himself, there are other things to worry about. Is what I said a bit extreme? Yeah, perhaps. I also said I liked the idea of just telling the owner of the field and the kids parents. The kid needs to learn some manners... plain and simple. I (and apparently several others) was raised that you don't touch things that don't belong to you... they aren't yours to touch. Too many parents have this laissez-faire approproach to raising their kids "oh, he's just being a kid" ... no, he's that way because parents *let* him be that way.




That's why you're immature.

What I said may not be the best thing, but that doesn't make me immature.


Now, as other members have stated, you can try and lead by example. I know the kid has been told several times. I assume hes of that million questions, constant fidgeting, few years younger type.

Uhh, no.
A) As previously stated, he's already been told several times and what example of gc8200's is he following when he goes through his stuff?
B) Properly raised, a child should know their limits and be out of the "million question, constant fideting" stage around 5 years old. ... This kid is probably around 13 (7th grade), this kid needs discipline (in one form or another)


AO, imo, is great because we try and be positive ambassadors of the sport. Even when kids are being irritating, mainly because its fairly likely we were once an annoying kid. I know I was when I first got into it. But, your job as an experienced player is to teach newer players how to act. Not to carry on like a spoiled, self-important jerk.

Answering questions? Sure I can do that no problem. Even the "stupid" questions such as "if you get hit in the mouth are you still out?" When asked as a serious question (ie not trying to be stupid and annoying), there are no stupid questions. Now when you come over and just start going through my bag, that's something else entirely. Not everyone can just leave things in the car or under constant lock and key. Why should anyone *have* to keep things put away just because some kid can't keep his hands to himself and stop touching things that aren't his after been told not to several times? As previously stated, talk to the field owner and the kids parents ... if they're even around.

[p8ntball365]

id be worried about him stealing my stuff. but dont punch him that won't solve anything. Just talk to the kid, and check for missing stuff.

[SCpoloRicker]

FallNAngel

I may have come across too harsh.

You're correct in that the kid is out of line. He shouldn't be rooting in other peoples gear. You are also right that contacting the field owner and/or the kids parents about the situation.

But thats where I have to say you should stop. Its not your responsibility to teach this kid manners. Maybe to a degree it is, as in pb etiquette, etc, but not to "teach him respect." Thats his parents responsibility, and I'm sorry to say he won't be the first idiot you will have to deal with.

Personal security is something I would recommend looking into. Sometimes, unfortunately, stuff has the habit of "walking away." :(

Same point here, basically, is being raised. Just warning not to take to far, and not to let it drive you nuts.

:cheers:

Ricker

[FallNAngel]

It's not a problem, I'm sure I came off as an idiot (wouldn't be the first time :p). You're right, it's not my responsibility to teach him manners, but if the parents haven't taugh him manners by the time he's 13, I have to question if they ever will.

[matt-o]

the first day i had my old 03 shocker a guy i played with would say it was his and whenever i was out just hanging around or doing anything that didnt include my gun he would lend it to people and let them try it out. that really really pissed me off, and on many occasions i thought my gun had been stolen, i just quit playing with the kid. he wasnt raised to respect other peoples stuff at all, i had payed for my whole gun setup (tank, shocker and loader) and he just had to ask his mom and he instantly got the best equipment money could buy. this made me value my stuff alot more than he valued his. he was hypocritical though cause he wouldnt ever let me use any of his stuff when i wanted to try out a dragon timmy for a while. bottom line is that people like this just need to be excluded till they get the idea.

*edit* sorry, that was a big rant but the fact that it was okay for him to lend out my gun without asking but never let me try his cause my gun cost less than his (even though he didnt pay for it) really pissed me off more than any other experience in paintball.

[Conversekidz]

hey conversekid.....i dont think any one...especially an adult should tell a kid hes going to shank him with a knife....maybe just cut of his hands for a trophie....or not :dance:


You never met me then

[Conversekidz]

/"I'll shank you" was another brilliant piece of reparte, whomever that was :rolleyes:

Thanks.... At least it isn't assault or will land you in legal trouble. You gave the kid several warnings about not touching your stuff and he if contiues then there will be an action. Sort of like "No Tresspassing, Tresspassers will be shot".

[FallNAngel]

Thanks.... At least it isn't assault or will land you in legal trouble. You gave the kid several warnings about not touching your stuff and he if contiues then there will be an action. Sort of like "No Tresspassing, Tresspassers will be shot".

No, it's not physical assault, but I do believe that would qualify as verbal assault and *is* illegal.

[Conversekidz]

Since you are not threating his life, there is nothing legal that they can do. The parents could try, but I don't know of a single law they would be able to get him on (I worked for the santa clara district attorneys office for 3 years and would constantly ask the DA's stupid questions like this to see what I legally could get away with)

Now if you said I am going to shank you with a knife until you bleed to death, and actual threat to his life, then yes that would be illegal, and that would only be illegal if some sort of physical assault happened. If that was the case the charges would be moved from assault to attempted murder.

But at the same time you do have someone going through your personal effects with out them asking, you are defending your own private property.


Here is a scenario for you, Lady is walking on the street and someone runs up and snatches her purse. While the robber is trying to pull the purse from her, she punchs him in the face and breaks his nose. The robber never came in contact with the womens body, he only pulled on the purse. He drops to the ground because of the pain, right at the same time a cop runs up on the scene.

The question is would the cop arrest the woman for assault?

[SocialD]

I hate kids that don't have any respect for other people's stuff.

Right or wrong, here is what I'd do. First, get really good and pissed off. I generally like to get to the point where I start shaking from the anger that has built up inside. The good part is that it sounds like you are almost to this point. However, if you are incapable of getting this pissed of, just fake it. He won't know the difference. Grab his wrist as he just about to touch your stuff. Now, don't grab his wrist to hard. Do it just hard enough so that you are sure that you have his attention. It is very important that you get the nuance of the next step just right. You make it so that you are face to face with him (hopefully you are taller than he is) and looking down at him. Then, through gritted teeth say what ever nonspecific threating phrase fits the moment. Maybe something like, "Some people get very irrational when you touch their stuff without premission!" Now, kind of throw his wrist away in a manner that states, "I'm done with you. It would suit you best to remove yourself from my presence."

If he continues to proceed with his rude behavior, either repeat the above steps with a more specific threat. However this time start with, "I told you...." Or, you could talk with his team mates, or have a little chat with his folks.

Good luck.
D-

[chairman_mao]

Thanks.... At least it isn't assault or will land you in legal trouble. You gave the kid several warnings about not touching your stuff and he if contiues then there will be an action. Sort of like "No Tresspassing, Tresspassers will be shot".
Actual it is illegal and can land you inserious trouble. Just because you didn't touch him doesn't mean you can say anything you want. By saying "Touch my stuff and I'll shank you" you are stating your intention to physically assault him.

[Lohman446]

Since you are not threating his life, there is nothing legal that they can do. The parents could try, but I don't know of a single law they would be able to get him on

Aside from arrest you for criminal assault. Assault is the threat of attack - battery is the actual attack. At least in Michigan

[AGDlover]

report the ***** to the local field owner also get witneses that can back you up if you get him proven that he was stealing and going though your stuff without permishion then hes screwed

[Conversekidz]

Actual it is illegal and can land you inserious trouble. Just because you didn't touch him doesn't mean you can say anything you want. By saying "Touch my stuff and I'll shank you" you are stating your intention to physically assault him.


Show me the law where it says verbal threats, and this is only him saying it one time, is illegal with regards to someone potentially stealing your stuff and I will change what I have to say.

Also if he threatend his life, the courts would also have to prove that he had intent of performing the act.

You watch some kid key your car, and you run up saying if I catch you I am going to kill you!! I highly doubt an officer or a judge or anyone in the legal field would try and put an assault charge on you.

[Conversekidz]

report the ***** to the local field owner also get witneses that can back you up if you get him proven that he was stealing and going though your stuff without permishion then hes screwed



Unless he has actually stolen something, this would be fraud.

[CKY_Alliance]

Show me the law where it says verbal threats, and this is only him saying it one time, is illegal with regards to someone potentially stealing your stuff and I will change what I have to say.

Also if he threatend his life, the courts would also have to prove that he had intent of performing the act.

You watch some kid key your car, and you run up saying if I catch you I am going to kill you!! I highly doubt an officer or a judge or anyone in the legal field would try and put an assault charge on you.

You would be surprised. All the kid has to do is say he was in fear of his life or in fear that he was going to be harmed and that is assault.Like some others said assault is verbal battery is physical.So you could still be charged with the assault part.Is it right no but what can ya do..nothing.

[Conversekidz]

You would be surprised. All the kid has to do is say he was in fear of his life or in fear that he was going to be harmed and that is assault.Like some others said assault is verbal battery is physical.So you could still be charged with the assault part.Is it right no but what can ya do..nothing.

You are correct to a point, unaggrivated assault he could simply say the guy threatend my life and I was in fear of it, but that is not what happened. The threat was in caused by the owner of the PB gear thinking the kid was stealing it, it changes how the law is looked at.


Well if it was just the two of them, it would be a he said he said argument and no judge would look at it.

Now if their where witnesses and they stated that the kid was going through the other guys stuff with out asking consent, and they he threatend the kid, the kid provoked the guy saying it.

You have to look at provoked and unprovoked assault, laws are only as good as the context that they are in.


This goes back to my purse example, did the lady assault the robber? By the defintion of assault yes she did, but legally did she assault the robber, no.


I guess i'm arguing the legal aspect of it, and your pointing out the defintion aspect of it.

[CKY_Alliance]

So if soemone goes through my stuff i can kill them as long as thiers witnesses to prove he went threw my stuff? Only legal provoked assault i know of is Self defence and that doesnt apply to the sitiuation at hand.physical assault that is.

[Conversekidz]

Like I said earlier, show me the actual law, the penal code.

[Conversekidz]

So if soemone goes through my stuff i can kill them as long as thiers witnesses to prove he went threw my stuff? Only legal provoked assault i know of is Self defence and that doesnt apply to the sitiuation at hand.physical assault that is.


Wooooooh there buddy that is a completely different argument.


Understand what my argument is saying before you try and take it down with examples that have nothing to do with it.

[CKY_Alliance]

Show you the law that assaulting someone is illegal?as in verbal assault?Do i really need to go look it up im sure you have heard of assualt and battery.The assault part is generaly verbal abuse that makes the victim feel threatend then there is the battery part, the actual physical abuse.

[RingOfScale]

side comment !!!! lol before me there were 54 views and 53 responses, i think thats a new % record

[AGDlover]

Unless he has actually stolen something, this would be fraud.


no but you'd have witneses + you did not give him full permition to go though any of your stuff so its like just walking into someones house without permition + you really dont know the kid. see what i mean

[Conversekidz]

If you accuse someone of theft, and have witnesses saying that he stole stuff, and in reality he never did any of that, you would be committing a form of fraud, and the kid could turn around and sue the accuser for defimation of character.

[AGDlover]

ya i'm not saying at the moment he was stealing but he was going through someone elses stuff w/o permition, and like i said its like walking into some random persons house for no reason also known as invasion of privisey

[Conversekidz]

The house example is a different set of laws.

If the door is locked, and they use force to enter then it would be breaking and entering.

If no force was used, and the door was unlocked, it would be illegal entry.




Its like this, if you are ever in a store and the shop owner accuses you of stealing, and you did not, you can sue the store.

[SCpoloRicker]

Verbal Assault. Verbal assault is defined as “any willful threat to inflict physical injury upon another person under circumstances that create a reasonable fear of imminent physical injury, coupled with an apparent ability to inflict such physical injury.”

aaps link (http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/aaps.forparents/parents.studentrr/definitions)


Here's a court document where officers responded to reports of someone threating multiple individuals. Basically, he was likely waving it at multiple people, but it does give an indication that threatening someone with a knife isn't a great idea.

*Synopsis*

On August 27, 2002, at approximately 2:40 a.m., officers were dispatched to the bus-stop shelter in the 1500 block of Broadway on a report of a black male threatening individuals passing by with a knife.* At that location, Officers Kim Markell and Benny Aloia were confronted by David Jerome Smith, who threatened them with a knife.* After repeated efforts to de-escalate the confrontation, Smith turned his knife threats into an attack by jumping from the bus-stop bench and rapidly closing distance toward Officer Aloia.* As he attacked Officer Aloia, Officer Markell fired five shots at him from her service pistol.* Smith, still armed with the knife, then attempted to flee.* Officer Aloia chased Smith and, after a struggle, took him into custody.* It was then determined that Smith had been shot in the foot.* He was transported by ambulance to Denver Health Medical Center for treatment.* The medical staff determined that Smith had a bullet fragment in the second toe of his right foot.

Denver Second Judicial District court records (http://www.denverda.org/Decision_Letters/02JSmith.htm)

Forgive the abuse of a poor Google search, but it really isn't worth going into detail to explain that you can't tell people you're going to shank them because their grabby with your pb gear.

[Conversekidz]

Read california Penal Code 240 on assault, then read Penal Code 422 on threats.

240. An assault is an unlawful attempt, coupled with a present
ability, to commit a violent injury on the person of another.


If I say I am going to shank you with a knife, and no knife is present I do not have present ability to perform that act per california law.

However by saying that and not having the knife present you are violating penal code 422

422. Any person who willfully threatens to commit a crime which
will result in death or great bodily injury to another person, with
the specific intent that the statement, made verbally, in writing, or
by means of an electronic communication device, is to be taken as a
threat, even if there is no intent of actually carrying it out,
which, on its face and under the circumstances in which it is made,
is so unequivocal, unconditional, immediate, and specific as to
convey to the person threatened, a gravity of purpose and an
immediate prospect of execution of the threat, and thereby causes
that person reasonably to be in sustained fear for his or her own
safety or for his or her immediate family's safety, shall be punished
by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed one year, or by
imprisonment in the state prison.



However you need to place the threat in the context of the given situation. He saw some kid rumaging through his stuff and he thought he was stealing it. He felt threatened because of that act and used necessary force (yelling something at the kid) to protect his well being.

[Conversekidz]

[QUOTE=SCpoloRicker]Verbal Assault. Verbal assault is defined as “any willful threat to inflict physical injury upon another person under circumstances that create a reasonable fear of imminent physical injury, coupled with an apparent ability to inflict such physical injury.”

aaps link (http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/aaps.forparents/parents.studentrr/definitions)
[QUOTE]

That is a rule for a school, not a law.

But anyways that goes back to my prior post, if you say you are going to stab someone with a knife and there is no knife aroun how do you aparent ability to perform such act? You don't, hence it not being assault.

[Lohman446]

[QUOTE=SCpoloRicker]Verbal Assault. Verbal assault is defined as “any willful threat to inflict physical injury upon another person under circumstances that create a reasonable fear of imminent physical injury, coupled with an apparent ability to inflict such physical injury.”

aaps link (http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/aaps.forparents/parents.studentrr/definitions)
[QUOTE]

That is a rule for a school, not a law.

But anyways that goes back to my prior post, if you say you are going to stab someone with a knife and there is no knife aroun how do you aparent ability to perform such act? You don't, hence it not being assault.


WRONG... if you threaten someone and a REASONABLE person woudl beleive that threat to be a serious threat of imminent physical harm that is enough. If I say I am going to shoot you, in a manner that makes you beleive it is serious and imminent, I have committed assault, even if I have no gun. If I do have a gun I have committed felonious assault (But thats another story). If I use the presence of the gun to pump up the threat (without aiming it) add brandishment to the list. The key is all it has to be for assault is to make a reasonable person beleive the threat was imminent and serious.

At least as the law works in MI

[Conversekidz]

Lohman446 you clearly did not read my posts in regards to california penal codes. I citied the exact codes and if you read them it clearly defines what assault is for california law, its the only law I studied because I was planning on practicing in california.

Assault in california is defined as this

Penal Code 240. An assault is an unlawful attempt, coupled with a present
ability, to commit a violent injury on the person of another.


If you say you are going to shoot someone, and you do not have a gun, you do not have the present ability to do so, IE it is not assault, however it is considered a threat.

Which is penal code 422, which defines a threat as

Any person who willfully threatens to commit a crime which
will result in death or great bodily injury to another person, with
the specific intent that the statement, made verbally, in writing, or
by means of an electronic communication device, is to be taken as a
threat, even if there is no intent of actually carrying it out,
which, on its face and under the circumstances in which it is made,
is so unequivocal, unconditional, immediate, and specific as to
convey to the person threatened, a gravity of purpose and an
immediate prospect of execution of the threat, and thereby causes
that person reasonably to be in sustained fear for his or her own
safety or for his or her immediate family's safety.


I'll say it again, if he says to the kid i'm going to shank you if you touch my stuff again it is not assault.

[minimag03]

just remember you were once a kid like that also...

I agree to a point, but this kid needs to take a break.

[Lohman446]

Lohman446 you clearly did not read my posts in regards to california penal codes. I citied the exact codes and if you read them it clearly defines what assault is for california law, its the only law I studied because I was planning on practicing in california.

Assault in california is defined as this

Penal Code 240. An assault is an unlawful attempt, coupled with a present
ability, to commit a violent injury on the person of another.


If you say you are going to shoot someone, and you do not have a gun, you do not have the present ability to do so, IE it is not assault, however it is considered a threat.

Which is penal code 422, which defines a threat as

Any person who willfully threatens to commit a crime which
will result in death or great bodily injury to another person, with
the specific intent that the statement, made verbally, in writing, or
by means of an electronic communication device, is to be taken as a
threat, even if there is no intent of actually carrying it out,
which, on its face and under the circumstances in which it is made,
is so unequivocal, unconditional, immediate, and specific as to
convey to the person threatened, a gravity of purpose and an
immediate prospect of execution of the threat, and thereby causes
that person reasonably to be in sustained fear for his or her own
safety or for his or her immediate family's safety.


I'll say it again, if he says to the kid i'm going to shank you if you touch my stuff again it is not assault.

Then California law is different than Michigan - which is of course all I have ever really concerned myself with.




ASSAULT [MCL 750.81, et seq]
A&B penalty: Misdemeanor --- 93 days &/or $500. [As of 04/02/02]

Aggravated Assault penalty: Misdemeanor --- 1 year &/or $1,000.

Domestic Violence penalty: Misdemeanor --- 93 days &/or $500.

Aggravated Domestic Violence penalty: Misdemeanor --- 1 year &/or $1,000.

An unlawful act that places another person in reasonable apprehension of receiving an immediate battery. An attempt to commit a battery. The defendant must intend to injure the victim or make the victim reasonably fear being struck. An assault is intentional, not an accident.

Note: The victim need not be actually injured for a "Simple Assault", but injuries can be circumstantial proof of higher levels of assaults. For example, proof that a victim was physically injured and needed immediate medical attention can distinguish "Simple Assault" from "Aggravated Assault". The type or severity of injury may also prove the defendant's "intent" (i.e., Assault With Intent to Do Great Bodily Harm Less Than Murder, Assault with Intent to Maim, Assault With Intent to Murder, etc.).

[gc82000]

wow this thread is getting a lot attention, more then I thought.


First of all I am going to be 23 real soon. Also I am soccer coach that coaches 6 of his PB teamates, so by me assualting some kid would not reflect well on my part. Plus I am a Criminal Justice Major, with a preacceptance to Georgetown Law School after graduation.

I know hitting this kid would not be beneficial to me and my future, but it is fun to post and read responses to them. On Guam The code is Title 9 chapter 32, subsection 15. And it states threatening a minor of the age of 17 and under is a third degree felony with a sentence of 1-3 years in prison. :D

My plan on my future interaction with this kid would be to ignore him. I think it was Dryden that posted that.

I also read a couple good post on here too, but I am glad it got the discusion it received.

Thanks
Gian :headbang:

PS Conversekid, Guam is part of the 9th circuit court of appeals same as the west coast. Maybe I might see you in court of on the field.

[ColdFuzion]

I'm 13, and I ref at the field, but I don't think I'm god or anything. I also don't mess with people's stuff unless they okay it...

Just tell the kid that you have expensive stuff that you don't want to get broken. He should quit. If not, those cute little locks that come with luggage sets do have a purpose in life...

-Cold

[MadPSIence]

then find a happy middleground.

angrily stare him down... get in his face (without touching him) and just say

"keep the **** out of my ****"

should work.

[Hairball]

Put a "bloody" rubber limb in the bottom of your bag.

[Pr0d1gy]

Dealing with this particular kid is one thing, the safety of your gear is another.

If you're not wearing/carrying everything of value onto the field, invest in a locking box/bag that you can also secure to something.

A simple trunk/box from army surplus with a padlock on the front and a wire/chain passed through the carry handles will suffice.

Yeah man, being a properly raised young kid I knew better than to go through peoples' stuff without asking...honestly I wouldn't touch other peoples' stuff, rather just ask first to see it. I've been like that always & would not let this kid near my gear.

[93civiccpe]

VERY VERY EASY solution. Just set the kid up... get a few mouse traps and tuck them inside your bag and then wait for the scream.

More humane way.. put a lock on the bag, even if one of the little locks that hold the two zipper pieces together.

Less humane way... replace mouse traps with rattle snakes. preferably agitated ones.


(Hopefully you all realized I am joking... about the second one.. lol. J/K. If any of you are dumb enough to put a rattlesnake in your bag, then you deserve being a big harry mans girlfriend in jail)

[SocialD]

...or fill up the bag with water and sharks with freakin' laser beams on their heads!


(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

[mobsterboy]

its not just a matter of yelling at the kid, or putting locks on your gear, you shouldn't have to. At my place, even my best buddies that i go with, i hardly ever touch their stuff unless they ask me to. I always ask to get into their bags, and although they offer me, i almost never use their guns, even to test out. I feel that its their equipment, and like mine, its sacred, so i dont wanna screw up or lose something that they are passionate about.

Honestly, you shouldn't have to teach the kid a lesson, but if you have to, really you are 23. Just put on that old mean person look and tell him that you dont want him in his stuff and that he should look and touch his own stuff. If you have to, talk to his parents when they get there, i know it might seem "uncool" to him, but its your personal stuff and you shouldn't have to worry about ppl screwing around with it

Mouse Traps? Rattlesnakes? Bloody rubber limbs? Honestly, dont threaten him, he is just immature. Next time he touches anything, let him know you dont want him around your stuff and make sure you tell him that you will talk to his parents about it if he does it again. You'll prob scare the piss right out of him, or he'll just be more immature

If all else fails, a good game of bonusballing will do the trick :shooting: :shooting: :rofl: :shooting: :shooting:

[JRingold]

Maybe I am just simple, but, if you had a case with a lock, wouldn't you be solving the problem? Everything I have that I don't want anyone else to mess with is in a locked case. All of the other stuff is, well, stuff no one would want to look at, paper towels, gloves, shoes, etc..

[gc82000]

That is just it I dont carry expnsive things to go play I have an extra set of clothes, a rag for cleaning my gear, extra pods, tools, gloves, slippers, cell, phone keys and my wallet and after a day of PB is empty most of the time. :cry:

So for why this kid is snooping in my gear, i dont know. does he want some of my clean underwear, IDK. The thing is I dont play in this kids division and he usually does not want to play with/against me. If he wants advice and to learn more on playing there is no better way to do it then to go out and play. I might throw some extra "lessons" his way, but man dont come up to me and ask for advice. And when I give you an opportunity to put that advice to use you, you back down.

To me this kid is a poser and will more then likely quit playing once his friends start to put him down. Even though my feeling for this is less then positive, feel he wasting his time and should try to make himself better. He is more known for his antics off the field then on. I guess this is where the anger and irritation come from, I see a kid who has some potential, but lacks motivation and direction. And being a coach who sees this every season, sees the failure in myself for not being better in getting through to this kid and encouraging growth and success.

end of epiphony. :cool:

[JRingold]

When he goes through your stuff, what exactly does he pull out? Is it the same thing every time, or just anything that he finds?

It could be that he has an interest in something, or that he's looking for some additional attention. Perhaps, the first time you noticed anything he was doing was when he was digging through your bag, so that's just what he does.

[Magglerock]

:confused: 13-year-olds upset you to the point of physical action? How did someone clearly imballanced - or at the very least, significantly stunted developmentally - get a "preacceptance" to Georgetown?

[gc82000]

:confused: 13-year-olds upset you to the point of physical action? How did someone clearly imballanced - or at the very least, significantly stunted developmentally - get a "preacceptance" to Georgetown?
;)
by having a IQ of 156 :cool:
Maggle your opinion of me and my reaction to this kid is null. You were not there to have any interaction with this kid and have no perception to the amount of patience I can have towards dealing with such acts. But when said acts are repeated over a significant period of time and the child has been warned repeatedly to no avail. Yes that might drive a person to the point of physical action. I am not trying to flame you, but I have no idea where you comment has come from.

[Magglerock]

;)
by having a IQ of 156 :cool:
Maggle your opinion of me and my reaction to this kid is null. You were not there to have any interaction with this kid and have no perception to the amount of patience I can have towards dealing with such acts. But when said acts are repeated over a significant period of time and the child has been warned repeatedly to no avail. Yes that might drive a person to the point of physical action. I am not trying to flame you, but I have no idea where you comment has come from.

So now they are admitting people to law school based on IQ? Funny, I thought it was determined by the LSAT and your GPA. You have an IQ of 156? You couldn't tell by the quality of your writing ("From" is a preposition. It is inappropriate to end a sentence with a preposition).

As for this thread, its retarded. Why do I or the rest of the AO community need to listen to you ramble about you inability to deal with juveniles appropriately? Don't you think that's an issue you should be discussing with your shrink?

[gc82000]

Yes pre-acceptance is based on GPA and LSAT scores, both of which are well enough to get me into almost any law school of my choosing.

But I will address you nonetheless. Flaming on the net is immature and pointless, same as lying to others that more then likely you will never meet just to make yourself look better then you are in real life. Basing your interpretation of a person's IQ on posts seen in a forum that is saturated with misspellings and poor grammar is a poor way to judge someone. And taking this thread as a psychological evaluation to my interaction with others and then coming to the decisive conclusion that I have some anger issues.


Grow up you worthless little man. You are wasting my time. You are not someone I need to justify myself to, or have any importance to the well-being of my life.

[ShadowNife]

seriously maggle, it's not like he's PM-ing you just to complain. He posted on a public forum which is general talk about anything paintball related. No reason for you to come in here, read the thread, or post if it doesnt fit your requirements. You should also note that this thread really isn't about one person incessantly complaining ( if anyone is doing that it's you), but rather first moved to how he should have dealt with the child to keep him out of his stuff in the future, and then once again shifted topics to legal issues. Please read the thread before posting and randomly flaming one individual who has done nothing to deserve it.

That being said, I think a locked case is the simplest way to deal with the issue because of the fact that sometimes kids just can't be changed until someone actually smacks them upside the head. Telling the parents might not help because chances are if the child is like that, either the parents can't do much or really don't care. Logically speaking, if the child is acting this way at a paintball park, then he is most likely doing the same elsewhere and has recieved talks and such that seem to be ineffective. The only other way I see that would possibly work is to tell the field owner, except it would be hard (i don't know, depends on how many people go to your field) to keep track and not let him in.

Btw, I find this legal discussion really interesting as I want to have something to do with the law as a career.

[SCpoloRicker]

156?

shenanigans, or pop-up quiz.

[Magglerock]

156?

shenanigans, or pop-up quiz.


"Shenanigans" - love it! Most definitely shenanigans. :clap: :rofl:

[Magglerock]

Yes pre-acceptance is based on GPA and LSAT scores, both of which are well enough to get me into almost any law school of my choosing.

Then what does your IQ have to do with anything? And why on Earth would you "choose" to go to a lawyer-factory like Georgetown?


Basing your interpretation of a person's IQ on posts seen in a forum that is saturated with misspellings and poor grammar is a poor way to judge someone.

Try employing another word other than "poor"; using the same adjective twice in a sentence is repetitive. The folks at Georgetown won't appreciate it. Then again, when you're pumping out 1000 lawyers a year, who's got time to notice?

[Magglerock]

You are not someone I need to justify myself to, or have any importance to the well-being of my life.

How do you know that? And how do I know so much about Georgetown? Or Law schools for that matter? Could I possibly live in DC? Could I possible BE a lawyer? Could I possibly have a connection to the school? Or work on the Hill? Possibly...

What year were you "preaccepted" to?

dun dun DUN!

[gc82000]

[QUOTE=Magglerock]How do you know that? And how do I know so much about Georgetown? Or Law schools for that matter? Could I possibly live in DC? Could I possible BE a lawyer? Could I possibly have a connection to the school? Or work on the Hill? Possibly...
QUOTE]
Dont give yourself credit for thinking that I care.

SCpolo- my IQ was determined through an Evalutaion done by the University of Guam. A friend of mine is a Psychology major and asked if I would like to take part. I did and I got a letter stating that my IQ was 156.

Shadow - I wish it would go back to being a discusion about legal matters but Stupidity happens. I was just going to ignore the kid and limit what I take out of my car. Which in his case, snooping in a car is a much more serious offense, then just going into a case.

[Magglerock]

SCpolo- my IQ was determined through an Evalutaion done by the University of Guam. A friend of mine is a Psychology major and asked if I would like to take part. I did and I got a letter stating that my IQ was 156.

Any intelligence test administered by "Guam U" (who knew?) ranks right below those quizzes on the insides of Bazooka bubblegum wrappers. Why did you capitalize "Evaluation"? "Stupidity"? 156? I mean, c'mon; you can't even figure out how to use the quote functions properly.

When you get in town, let me know. I'd like to meet you.

[Automaggot68]

Any intelligence test administered by "Guam U" (who knew?) ranks right below those quizzes on the insides of Bazooka bubblegum wrappers. Why did you capitalize "Evaluation"? "Stupidity"? 156? I mean, c'mon; you can't even figure out how to use the quote functions properly.

When you get in town, let me know. I'd like to meet you.


Oh will you shut up already?
What the hell do you care how intelligent someone is?
It's the god damned internet, log off, go do something.

[gc82000]

Automaggot66 let him flame me to his hearts content. I think he is trying to get me mad so that he can believe himself to be better then me. I am not going to get mad or anything. And as for me meeting him, that would be a highly unlikely occurance, or at least one not made by my choosing.

[Lohman446]

156?

shenanigans, or pop-up quiz.


LOL... 156? Anyone watch King of the Hill where Peggy takes that online IQ test. I'm thinking about as reliable.

[93civiccpe]

Any intelligence test administered by "Guam U" (who knew?) ranks right below those quizzes on the insides of Bazooka bubblegum wrappers. Why did you capitalize "Evaluation"? "Stupidity"? 156? I mean, c'mon; you can't even figure out how to use the quote functions properly.

When you get in town, let me know. I'd like to meet you.


I bet this guy actually lives somewhere in a barn with a sheep. I doubt very seriously he is anyone of any importance or else he wouldn't be putting down someone who is working hard to make something out of their life. It is very easily to take a random post in a forum and break it down and try to make yourself seem important. My guess is that this guy got rejected from Georgetown, or failed in his attempt to be a successful lawyer. Or maybe he's just a punk kid trying to sound cool. Why else would he be in a paintball forum trying to make himself seem superior. If he really was a successful lawyer in DC there are much better things to do than sit on a computer and argue with high-school and college aged kids. Trust me, I live near by and visit DC often. Or maybe this guy is so pathetic and lame that he can't get a girlfriend?? Lots of choices. See how easy it is to put down a complete stranger?

In all reality this is a paintball forum. The original topic is about the kid who keeps going through your stuff. I know how frustrating that can be. I have two younger brothers. Here's a suggestion. Try taking the kid under your wing and befriend him. Play with him on your side and teach him tactics and try to challenge him so he will push himself. When you are in that relationship where he feels like he is your friend, and he is grateful for you helping him, then let him know he should ask before going through your stuff. I'm sure he should have no problems. Good luck with that and good luck with Law school. Don't listen to that guy who only seems intent on putting down a certain school for "pumping out lawyers". Isn't that the job of a law school?? Am I mistaken?? Maybe Law Schools are supposed to pump out musicians in his opinion. But nevertheless, have a good time. Contact me sometime and maybe I can show you around. I've lived in Virginia my whole life, and there are some great paintball fields in northern VA.

[Magglerock]

Trust me, I live near by and visit DC often. .

Want a cookie?

[SCpoloRicker]

Want a cookie?

Psh, what's your deal? Obviously, since this kid lives in D.C. he knows that you're not a lawyer. Right? I mean, its public knowledge. Right? :rolleyes:

And, just to remove the sarcasm for a second. gc8200, Claiming you have an IQ thats north of Einsteins on an Internet forum, and backing it up with a test administered by an undergrad psych student, probably isn't the best plan.

Throwing in some "aren't I amazing" generally doesn't help. You were spot on a few posts ago; mayhaps it should have been left at that.


Grow up you worthless little man. You are wasting my time. You are not someone I need to justify myself to, or have any importance to the well-being of my life.

Yep, its called the interwebs, moran.

[gc82000]

Einstein's IQ was actually in the upper 170's I think.


Oh I know it was not most mature thing to get fired up about some post of a stranger. I was rash and I let it get the better of me this time.
Oh yeah my friend told me of the test, not administer it. It was done by proffesors at UOG.

93 I PM next time I am around. I have a lot of family in the DC area. I have been really wanting to check out PEV's PB up near Alexandria for quite sometime.

This Sunday I know I am bound to meet up with this kid again. I will use some (mostly the ones that will not land me in jail) of the advice given in this thread and get back to you guys on our little interactoins.

[SCpoloRicker]

Fair enough. I apologize if I snapped at you earlier.

[Magglerock]

Einstein's IQ was actually in the upper 170's I think.


Oh I know it was not most mature thing to get fired up about some post of a stranger. I was rash and I let it get the better of me this time.
Oh yeah my friend told me of the test, not administer it. It was done by proffesors at UOG.

93 I PM next time I am around. I have a lot of family in the DC area. I have been really wanting to check out PEV's PB up near Alexandria for quite sometime.

This Sunday I know I am bound to meet up with this kid again. I will use some (mostly the ones that will not land me in jail) of the advice given in this thread and get back to you guys on our little interactoins.

Shenanigans.

[gc82000]

SCpolo I honestly think your post was justified on my previous posts. It is all cool with me. :cheers:

[PsychoBaller]

I remember wanting to f' up a kid / local ref at a field once when I first started playing back in 95. Kid was a local field ref, and on a team that the local home field team.

Me and one o my best buds played a 1on1 game that day, one hopper, my Original RT vs his Tippman something, i was all boastful and trash talking...

The 1on1 game started, and i got mad deep into the field, i was leaning up right side against a Wall bunker thing... then things got F'd up. I got hit on the left side of my mask outta nowhere. I looked directy to the side of the field by the tapeline, and saw one o the refs, who had been playing all day, lowering the barrel end of his gun.

Mother F'er... guy had shot me though he said he didnt have any paint in his gun, but i know he picked up a ball or two and shot them at me while i was in this 1on1 duel, since my buddy was all the way on the right corner side of the field...

Anyways PAINTBALL DEPOT SUX

-baller

[gc82000]

Psychoballer that really sucks for you, I say if they shoot at me I can shoot them back. Hey it follows the Geneva convention does it not.

Now back to me and this kid. He is scared of me, like wont even look at me in the eye scared of me. My soccer players said they told him that I dont like himand that I dont want to see him anywhere near my stuff or my team's tent. So I never went up to him, he never went up to me. It was cool because the rest of his team will come over and ask for advice or to get help with their gun he would stay as far away as possible. They even brought me his gun to work on and I did no stress on me. But man do I hate Spyders.


It was a fun day. :D

[spyderxtra76]

Blah Blah

[Lohman446]

Oops.. wrong thread :D I'm an idiot

[MonsterMag]

This thread is poop :tard:

[ApexAZ]

Blah Blah

If you're going to post maybe try not to do it anonymously?

[mag88888]

spyder extra:get a life. this is a FORUM, people talk.

[SlartyBartFast]

Blah Blah

First post on the forum and you're acting like a sphincter. Wow.

Are you really that retarded and anti-social or are you contravening a ban with a new account? Or are you simply a frustrated pre-teen trying to play troll? :tard:

Crawl back under the rock you came out from under. AO was doing fine without you. :shooting:


PS: I was sure that this thread started out as “I almost punched a kid”. :confused:

["the FitZ"]

Line the inside of your bag w/ razor blades. Then it's his fault.

J/K don't do that but you shouldn't have to put it under lock and key while at the field. I say call his parents or have him kicked out of the park.