For anyone who wonders about Ion sales

[Lohman446]

Rumor, from SP, is that there are over 10,000 Ions on backorder, thats not including the ones already shipped. I could not get an estimate of sales to date on them, but I have a feeling noone expected to see sales like this.

[Muzikman]

No, I actually think you are wrong. Everyone expected to see sales like that.

[splat15k]

No, I actually think you are wrong. Everyone expected to see sales like that.


Agreed!

[BD_Paintball]

No, I actually think you are wrong. Everyone expected to see sales like that.
i agree, when you have a gun that has break beam eyes and other nice things for only 300 bucks you know that you are going to sell a ton of these things.

[Muzikman]

Let me make something clear though...am I happy they are selling so many, No. I still dislike Smart Parts and would not actually suggest anyone buy an Ion. But I knew they were going to sell a lot and fast. How ever, it's only a matter of time before someone else (probably NPS) releases a gun that is comparable in features and similarly priced. The only difference is that Smart Parts for the last 10 years has been known as a company on the cutting edge who made higher end markers. Where as NPS has been known as a compnay on the cutting edge but making lower end stuff (32 Degrees, etc..). I think for something to do as well, it has to come out of the Timmy line of guns. Seriously though, how hard would it be for NPS to make a $300 version of the Timmy? My guess is not very.

I am also seriously wondering how much money SP makes on each gun sold. From what I heard they wholesale for about $180, which is dirt cheap. How much does one cost to actually build and how much R&D money was spent?

[Lohman446]

My understanding on R&D is this was a failed early 03 "Shocker" design that they reincarnated to the Ion so the R&D to this marker specifically was likley very little - as it was included in the 03 Shocker R&D. My rumor on wholesale price is a little different, in the $240 range which fits with the $300 price point. I could be wrong on this though.

And you're right, had PMI made this it would not sell like it does (EVO). Now some people will say its because of the spool valve... bah a lot of people buying these have no clue of the signifigance of a spool valve in a marker this cheap.

I think everyone expected good sales.. but I think sales were more than anticipated.

[BD_Paintball]

i dont think that it would be that hard to make on from the timmy line but i dont think it will sell as good as the ion did. if it only cost like 300 bucks then people whould put it in the group with the other spyder look-a-likes and clones. it would be hard to say that this is a huge step up from the ion to have people buy them instead of the ion. and also people who were looking for a cheap(in price), but good gun already bought the ion. If some one i knew was looking for a cheap gun but is still a good gun i would say to get an ion. my friend got one to back up his nerve and he loves it. i saw him play with it and its fast and very compact.

[Muzikman]

Well, there are always going to be new people coming into the sport that want a cheap electro. And there is a difference between a Timmy and a Spyder and it's not in the way they operate, it's the name on the gun. If you took a spyder, slapped the Bob Long name on it and called it a Timmy Lite and sold it for $300 I would bet you any amount of money that it would fly off the shelves fast. The Ion is not popular because it is a good gun, it's popular because it's made by Smart Parts. If the Ion was made by Kingman or Brass Eagle everyone would be calling it junk.

[Lohman446]

If you took a spyder, slapped the Bob Long name on it and called it a Timmy Lite and sold it for $300 I would bet you any amount of money that it would fly off the shelves fast. The Ion is not popular because it is a good gun, it's popular because it's made by Smart Parts. .

Agreed - the Smart Parts name does sell markers, it holds "high-level" ideas when players think of it. Even if they are wrong, I don't think they are but we are discussing the name, not quality or business practices which are sources of disagreement.

Also agreed on the name issue. Look at Evo's - stack tubed, break beam eyes, $250 (ish), there not exactly flying off shelves and they have been out for a year

[TheTramp]

I don't know about "everyone" but I'm specificly buying the Ion because of the spool valve design.

I'd get one of the several different stacked tube spyder/timmy style e-guns with BB eyes if that's all I cared about.

[Lohman446]

I don't know about "everyone" but I'm specificly buying the Ion because of the spool valve design.

Thats the thing, I would not have bought an Ion if not for the spool valve :). But they are still getting a lot of customer's who don't care. Its a win win for SP.

[Blazestorm]

Ion's wholesale is about $120.00 atleast that's what I was told from my friend who's a SP Dealer... he won't sell me one below $280.00 though, which saddens me. The fact that he has two Ion's for less than the price I would buy 1 from him.

He could sell me an Ion, then buy an Ion and have 40 bucks left over for a couple cases of paint.. :cool:

[ben-afficial]

Oh....no shiney pitchers....bummer :dance:

[RobAGD]

Just a few notes - the 180-200 number is a better bet for Best Distrib pricing and 220-240 for best dealer pricing.

If kingman made this gun it would be a POS. Smart Parts as much as I hate to say it went out to make an inexpensive gun not a cheap gun. There is a world of differance there. They have high quality machines making these parts, Right now they are having some small probelms with vendors ( where have we heard that before :) ). From the time i have been at the factory for tech classes my best guess is they are putting 1 man hour into each gun for production from finished parts to assembled gun. Thats a bit high for this price of a gun. They have machines that can task out 2000 parts a week ( thats the breach part 13 per hour 3 shifts 7 days minus a few hours for maintance and Q/C Checks ). They right now without OT are making about 1000 guns a week you do the numbers on that. I know they are looking to add another production shift to get the numbers more inline with demand. But as Tom can tell you those number will go away real quick as there are many many shops that have heavy orders and when they start getting them and sales slow a little the will drop thier other orders and the B/O will clear up fairly quickly.

Btw - Lots of people will BS thier numbers when talking to be to make themselves sound like that are bigger than they are. I have seen it with dealers telling people thier pricing and I have seen it with manufactures with daily production numbers :) Take it all with a grain of salt.

-Robert

PS - I speak for no one but myself :)

[phantomhitman]

smart parts is a smart company, which people do not like. they cover their bases and do not worry about yours......unfortunatly.

but about the ion, from the one i shot it is a great gun at a great price. it helps some of hte more advanced rec players get more into the sport for cheaper. so if it helps out the sport i am for it, i cannot wait for the day every noob at the field has an ion :tard: but they are not a noob gun, so please do not take words out of my mouth and construe them as something else

[Lohman446]

smart parts is a smart company, which people do not like. they cover their bases and do not worry about yours......unfortunatly.

but about the ion, from the one i shot it is a great gun at a great price. it helps some of hte more advanced rec players get more into the sport for cheaper. so if it helps out the sport i am for it, i cannot wait for the day every noob at the field has an ion :tard: but they are not a noob gun, so please do not take words out of my mouth and construe them as something else

OMG.. how can you say the Ion is better than your DevilMag :p ;)

[Flow_Tech]

they are actually closer to 20,000 units behind.

[AGD]

I would totaly expect a 10k backorder. Another brilliant marketing move from a company that wrote the book on how to do it. All is forgiven, go forth all and multiply the order numbers.

AGD

[Creative Mayhem]

I would totaly expect a 10k backorder. Another brilliant marketing move from a company that wrote the book on how to do it. All is forgiven, go forth all and multiply the order numbers.

AGD

HAHAHAHA :clap:

[Athius]

Let me make something clear though...am I happy they are selling so many, No. I still dislike Smart Parts and would not actually suggest anyone buy an Ion. But I knew they were going to sell a lot and fast. How ever, it's only a matter of time before someone else (probably NPS) releases a gun that is comparable in features and similarly priced. The only difference is that Smart Parts for the last 10 years has been known as a company on the cutting edge who made higher end markers. Where as NPS has been known as a compnay on the cutting edge but making lower end stuff (32 Degrees, etc..). I think for something to do as well, it has to come out of the Timmy line of guns. Seriously though, how hard would it be for NPS to make a $300 version of the Timmy? My guess is not very.

I am also seriously wondering how much money SP makes on each gun sold. From what I heard they wholesale for about $180, which is dirt cheap. How much does one cost to actually build and how much R&D money was spent?

Just wait for the 05 BKO is gonna be sweet.

[Blazestorm]

And they might sell 1000 or 2...

But ICD will never. Ever. Have 18,000 guns on backorder (Talked to my SP Rep, that's how many are on backorder now)

<3

[Muzikman]

Blaze, you have to remeber, ICD = NPS

[Blazestorm]

ICD = Make everything in-house in small building in Idaho = Not going to sell 10,000 BKO's

:)

[azza]

Another thing that would help pull customers that alot of people seem to overlook is that Ions are capable of using CO2 fairly easy, thats the single biggest thing that makes it appealing for me.
Living in a town where noone uses hpa and the feild doesnt offer it is a big encentive to buy a Ion and a antisyphon tank and be happy. Id rather buy an Angel or an osiris cocker, but i know im like alot of people out there that are not in a position to buy a hpa tank and a fill station and either start hiring or buy a scuba. On a side note, stuff karting a scuba on me motorbike to n from the feild :D

Cheers

[Teamslayer76]

This is a very intresting thread. I still call IONS junk. I still hate smart parts even though I shoot
theyre guns. And about the 05 BKO I bet that will blast the ION away in proformance but sales. Like everyone else said. If its made by Smart Parts it going to sell. The kids will buy them. They will brag then theyre friends will get them.... That how the 18,000 backorder came along I bet.

Its kind of the same way with Automags, not very popular with newer players. But the old ones [at least 3-5 years into the game] They are high end and well respected. Ask any newbie who AGD is you'll get "Is that a new company" or "I've never heard of them"

[WingMan13]

The Wrath is in the same price range but I doubt they have sales that are even close to the ION. Also, rumor has it that Lasoya is releasing a "cheap high end" marker in the same price range. Here we go! :dance:

[minimag03]

I knew it was going to be big.

[JimmyBeam]

The Wrath is in the same price range but I doubt they have sales that are even close to the ION. Also, rumor has it that Lasoya is releasing a "cheap high end" marker in the same price range. Here we go! :dance:

just curious, but has anyone been able to shoot the wrath?

[maxwell]

I shot a wrath, seemed nearly identical to OGI's one...or whatever that was called...only real difference I noticed was the different eyes....wrath had breakbeam...did not spend much time with it, but shot it briefly...I liked the ION more....

[OmniDynmc]

Props to SP, I bought it not for the spool valve but for the weight and closed back (price might have had something to do with it). I like putting a marker up close and my E-Blade cocker whacks my mask every time I do it (on accident of course), though I could put a tail on the back, it's still heavy as hell.

Of course I could have gotten an emag but for the price of the ION, why? Sorry AGD!

I'm curious to see what happens on rec fields concerning ramping now that the ION is out and any old poor Joe can buy one. My current field doesn't say anything in their orientation about it at all.

I turned on ramping and dry fired it at the house and all I can say is, holy crap!

Greg

[JimmyBeam]

i say bring it on, id rather everyone have at least an Ion or better, so when I do get you out, you cant say its becasue my gun is faster/better

[Cameo]

i say bring it on, id rather everyone have at least an Ion or better, so when I do get you out, you cant say its becasue my gun is faster/better

Ever hear the term "it is all in the perspective?" I think if you put out enough hype about anything and say that it is wonderful and the best new thing out there for a great price, people will in fact belive that. So many people think the ion is great because that is what they have been told, not what they experienced themsleves (case point, the pet rock.. they best thing to happen, untill sea monkeys came along that is.. then it was ch ch ch chia pets). It has not been out long enough to start breaking down or having problems. My father always told me to never buy a car that is the first of its kinds at a cheap price because they always cause more headaches till things are all worked out.. I belive this to be true with paint ball guns also.

If SP is so backed ordered, they know these guns are going to sell (they already are sold) they are trying to get the guns out as quickly as possible, don't you think that maybe some of the quality will be overlooked in order to get the guns out quicker? It doesn't take a genious to realize that the margin of error always goes up when people are pressed for time. All I say is good luck to anyone who has an ION coming to them, hope all the fancy things it is supposed to have work correctly for ya :rofl:
~steph

[JimmyBeam]

If SP is so backed ordered, they know these guns are going to sell (they already are sold) they are trying to get the guns out as quickly as possible, don't you think that maybe some of the quality will be overlooked in order to get the guns out quicker? It doesn't take a genious to realize that the margin of error always goes up when people are pressed for time. All I say is good luck to anyone who has an ION coming to them, hope all the fancy things it is supposed to have work correctly for ya :rofl:
~steph

got one, no problems, shoots great