retro valve compared to tippman rt valve?

[Restola]

my understanding is that they in theory do the same thing, push the trigger back. i was watching a tippmann with the reactive trigger and quite frankly it was fast as all heck. i have no idea why he was not breaking paint but it was impressive (and i have played against some fast guns).

will a retro do the same thing for my mag that rt valve thing did for the guys tippman?

[a_malfunction]

Yep. :) and a retro is tourney legal too!

[Thordic]

The correct answer is yes AND no. More no than yes :)

They both use extra air to push the trigger back towards your finger. With the Tippman, the trigger is constantly in "run away" mode, meaning if you hold the trigger down at the right spot, the gun will continuously fire as if it were in a fully-automatic mode. This is why the Tippman RT trigger is banned in tournaments.

With the AGD retro valve, the trigger CAN go into runaway mode, and perform the same way, but only at very high pressures, I believe (around 950psi input pressure, maybe?). In any case, it still returns the trigger, but you need to actually move your finger to shoot the gun. What the bouncy-trigger does is allow you fire faster because there is less time waiting for the trigger to return, and you get the bounce-effect off your finger.

So in effect, yes, the Retro is capable of runaway-fire. But for all intents and purposes, you don't want to do that. First off its illegal in most tournies and at a lot of fields, and secondly, it greatly enhances your chances of breaking balls.

[Drizit]

as a Tippmann RT owner I can tell you the setup.

the Tippmann RT vents excess blow back gas through an external connecter to a piston in the grip frame to push the trigger forward. but unlike the retro valve the bounce is by design not just as a side effect of a faster recharge. also the Tippmann uses the same valve it comes stock with. the reason it wasn't chopping paint is that the bolt is plastic and also the only pressure behind it is the spring that drives the hammer. if it's setup right then you can keep it in reactive fire for a hole hopper if you want. however if it's setup to respond too much then it will end up pinching a ball and you will have to recock. also you can control to what degree it is a runaway with a knob on the side of the gun. but that and a properly setup flatline is a way to turn a rental gun into a death machine.

[manike]

Originally posted by Drizit
but unlike the retro valve the bounce is by design not just as a side effect of a faster recharge.

The automag RT trigger and valve was designed to force your finger back to help prevent short stroking and to help you to shoot faster AS WELL as to get a faster recharge. It wasn't 'just' a side effect :)

manike

[Bonx0007]

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"Death Machine" is an accurrate description.:D

[Shaft]

Originally posted by manike


The automag RT trigger and valve was designed to force your finger back to help prevent short stroking and to help you to shoot faster AS WELL as to get a faster recharge. It wasn't 'just' a side effect :)

manike

Yeah, actually it was.

The design was to make the valve recharge faster. By having the air chamber recharge at tank pressure while the regulator lags behind.
The classic valve also pushes back on the trigger, but at regulated pressure.
The reactive quality was something too good not to exploit. Which would explain the on/off pin differences.

[manike]

Original mags used to push back as you pointed out and way back before the RT was out John Bonich made a mag with a special on off pin and on/off valve that had a larger head on the pin and thus pushed back harder when firing the gun. I've actually shot it in his lab.

It worked just like an RT does nowadays but didn't have the rapid recharge. It was designed to help prevent short stroking get that runaway effect. These ideas and mods were then taken into account with the development of the RT. (John Sosta and John Bonich do much automag development and testing in the UK and are responsible for many products/developments that eventually come out of AGD USA).

If you look at the top of the RT pin you can see it is larger to accentuate this affect. If it hadn't been designed in then they would have kept it more like a standard mag pin (same width all the way). The fact that the top of the pin is larger shows it was designed that way, not a side effect :) You would still have a kick back with a standard pin but not as great.

manike

[Prezents]

I have a question, I know that on my Retro mag and on my team mate's RT you can shoot a straight line of paint, when you are shooting "reactive" because of the ability of the valve to recharge so quickly. do you get the same straight level line of paint with the Tippmann?

[DYE-BaLLeR]

the RT thing for a tippman is just this thing behind the trigger, just something to make it shoot faster. thats not all the ReTro valve does for a mag tho.

[Drizit]

yep because there is no Reg. in a Tippmann it recharges quite fast. providing you only use the stock barrel as a bludgeoning device you can shoot a nice straight line of paint with a Tippmann RT. with the stock barrel you get more of a shotgun pattern.

[FeelTheRT]

Originally posted by Restola
retro valve compared to tippman rt valve?

there is no Tippmann RT valve, it's a trigger mod where it uses the blowback air to recock the gun, push a rod that forces the trigger to go back thus having a RT feeling.


Originally posted by Restola
will a retro do the same thing for my mag that rt valve thing did for the guys tippman?

The Tippmann RT mod is fully adjustable externaly on the gun, while the Automag RT's reactivity is adjusted by the input presure of the tank.

[Drizit]

Originally posted by Restola
will a retro do the same thing for my mag that rt valve thing did for the guys tippman?

no it won't the retro will give you some of the trigger prefromance that the tippmann gets but not all. however if you have any trouble with shootdown then it will fix that.

the RT kit for the Tippmann was designed form the ground up to make a runaway trigger. the retro valve wasn't.

[Vegeta]

on the M98 RT, theres a screw on the connecting hose on the right side of the gun. This works like a RVA. It adjusts how much air is let in to the RT Piston. It can be adjusted to where the trigger isn't reative mush at all, os you dont get a unaway, you get tiny "rocks" that may give you 2-3 shot burts, like a swing trigger. Then you can open it up and get fast *** fully reactive, 1 ball on the pull, 1 on hte release, maybe a few in between if you arent looking (THOSE DAMN ELVES!). Liek I have said.. I belive, if you haev a trained finger, you can get BURSTS, not allthe time full auto, but bursts of up to 5-6 balls at 20 bps. I think.

yes the 98 can handle it.. its amazing. A low-mid cost gun, with all mechanical, no electronics, outshooting its hopper, and high end guns liek the Emag/Angel.