ecocker vs. emag

[master_alexander]

i can't decide between the ecocker and the warped emag.
help me decide.
here are the specs:

emag:
warp left (twistlock)
2 barrels all american, lapco bigshot
warp and all mods you can get on it
1.37 technology(or whatever it is with a 1)
and a drop with an on/off and asa.

$550 shipped

and the e cocker:
~eblade frame with eye installed
~wgp delrin bolt with o-rings
~kapp twisted cocking rod
~wgp pull pin
~sto ram-with qevs installed
~wgp tickler reg
~shocktech hpr reg-with dye gauge
~all american 14 inch barrel
smauari trigger

$500

so i can't decide at all. mags are really reliable and cockers shoot darts...

so please help me... ... i tried on pbn but there is a rule that you can't have vs threads.

[Blennidae]

I own both an Emag and an Ebladed cocker. I use my Emag as my primary, but I'm equally happy with my Eblade.

I built the Eblade after shooting a friends, and having so much fun with it. For me, it was much easier to shoot fast than my v1.37 Emag was. I then had my Emag flashed to v3.2 then again to v4.0 and with both software revisions the Emag was just as easy to shoot fast.

I feel an Ebladed cocker is more reliable then a mechanical cocker as there is no real issue with the gun losing its timing from a mechanical aspect. You set it up once and you shouldn't have to tweak with it much. The operation is handled by the Eblade. However, there are more things to physically go wrong with a cocker in general compared to a mag.

An Emag is not the most air efficent gun out there. If I ever am at a game where for whatever reason I can't get a full air fill, I will pack up the Emag and switch to the Eblade. When you get 2k fills, (like at the big "Night of the Catman" scenario) you can play more games between fills.

This probably didn't help your decision making process, but it gives you something to think about from someone who currently owns both.

[master_alexander]

i want both, but then my dad will say "you have 1,000 fied up in this sport and... " yea we have all heard that speech if we played when our parents controlled what we did.

and i know i can't make a deal because it's different dealers...

any suggestions?

you can donate to the "help alex get 2 guns he can't live without fund" if i can get everyone 500 people to donate a dollar then i will have my wish.. an ebladed cocker and a warped emag... I am now seriously considering this. But then again everyone would want to do this. but i am 14 and have no way of making that much money unless i worked about a year or so and then new stuff will have come out...

but i like the emag
and now can't live without the cocker :(

help alex get 2 guns he can't live without fund and donate a couple of bucks

[master_alexander]

i decided!

sell:
my gun 550
airsoft gun 50
parts box mag 140
old laptop 80
q loader 70
gba sp 60

so that's...

950

and i need 1050.. (550 for emag and 500 for e cocker)

and my grandmother passed away in january and left me and my brother money to spend. My mom even said that she would most likley want us to spend it, so there will be enough money to fill in the rest if i can't get the price listed...

cool!

i bet my dad doesent go for it at all....

[jewie27]

The E-Mag is basically two guns in one. Electro and Mechanical. No other gun in the world does that, except the X-Mag. No worries if your batteries/board die.

[master_alexander]

The E-Mag is basically two guns in one. Electro and Mechanical. No other gun in the world does that, except the X-Mag. No worries if your batteries/board die.

another plus, i am leaning tward that deal as well, i can find enough stuff to sell to make 500 including some savings...

[Enemy]

deff. go emag send it to black vcg for a flash and a trigger job you wont be sorry!! also 550 for a non ule emag is kinda high see if you cant talk him down a little!

[master_alexander]

deff. go emag send it to black vcg for a flash and a trigger job you wont be sorry!! also 550 for a non ule emag is kinda high see if you cant talk him down a little!

it comes with a drop, 2 barrels, a charger, and a warp and all mods available for it.

[Enemy]

that sonds alot better!! go with that you dont need a cocker the stupid back block always smacking you in the face!! :cuss:

[Blennidae]

the stupid back block always smacking you in the face!! :cuss:

Thats what beavertails are for. ;) The back block moving is mesmerising... :D

[93civiccpe]

I'll play devil's advocate. I've played both. I like both, but an e-cocker will outshoot an e-mag in my experience. TO CLARIFY (before people start flaming), I play both an autococker AND an automag, and both will handle a very good rate of fire. But autocockers are more accurate, they are better at conserving air, and that one is set up nicely for an eblade as it has upgraded front pneumatics. Those QEV's are gonna let that ram fly so it will rip as fast as you can walk it. I know that may be an unpopular answer on a mag-forum, but I play an autococker as my primary and a mag as my secondary, and I love both of them. To be honest though, I even think the autococker will come out a little lighter too because of that battery pack the mag has. That's just my 2 cents worth, but I do build autocockers and for that reason I do know what they are capable of, but you aren't doing bad with an e-mag either. Please don't flame, the oldskool rivalry between automags & autocockers should be dropped... they are both very well designed markers that are the standard for all other markers that have come on the scene.

Quick notes on the autococker:
-wgp delrin bolt with o-rings <= eventually replace that with shocktech superfly.
-all-american barrel <= replace with freak/kaner/pipe... etc, some kind of high-end barrel

** I've seen ebladed autocockers go for 300 locally. Most of them are where people put the eblade 1 on a stock autococker and didn't understand why it was having problems. The reason is the stock front pneumatics are only designed to keep up with the stock slider trigger. I would try talking the guy down closer to $400, because I could build a better autococker than that for under $500 easily.**

[deathstalker]

I have two ebladed cockers, including one with a Zero-B board (waste of money, IMHO, but that's a different thread), and an E-Mag (set up for ULE vert or ULE warp). Myself, I can shoot my E-Mag faster, but I really have a lot of fun with cockers. I, too, recommend getting both, but I think the price of the cocker is too high. What kind of body does it have?

I would recommend low-balling e-cockers on eBay (with your parents' permission, of course) and you can get one for $400 or less. I paid $400 for the first one I bought (all stock except for e-blade), but I also received a mech RF cocker and a brand new Profiler. Parted out the mech gun and I had an e-cocker and Profiler for about $340.

[deathstalker]

But autocockers are more accurate...
I thought this was put to bed years ago. :rolleyes:

[johnson88]

^me too

[BobDoleIsMyHero]

I know most people here are fond of buying several guns but IMO you should buy whichever one you like most then spend your other $500 on playing. Lots of paint and good times can be had with that kind of money. :shooting:

[93civiccpe]

I thought this was put to bed years ago. :rolleyes:

Ok, I'll clarify. With enough money you can push a mag to have accuracy similar to an autococker. BUT, That emag already costs more than the e-cocker, and I would guarantee that ecocker setup would already outshoot the mag as far as accuracy is concerned. So unless he wants to pay more money to buy the emag and then invest even more on a kit to improve accuracy, then I would advise the autococker if he was concerned with accuracy. Plus, if you took the money invested in the kit I've seen claiming to raise the accuracy of mags to that of cockers, and instead invested it in the already cheaper cocker, once again the cocker would win. I'm just talking about money and functionality. I said in the first thread not to take offense. I have fired very accurate mags that had 2 different kits on them, but IN THIS CASE, that autococker will be more accurate than the mag which doesn't have a kit mentioned in its add-ons. The autococker will shoot just as fast, and costs less (and should cost even less than that as I mentioned before). But I also know that paintball is a game of personal feel. I play both guns, and I respect and enjoy them both. I'm not saying every cocker is better than every mag or vice versa. I'm just saying what I see as the better deal for this ONE situation. In my opinion the advantage I see of the emag is that it will probably play a bit tighter than the autococker. I have always hated the mag vs. cocker rivalry. Both guns are awesome in their own respect and people just need to get over it. I'm not putting down either gun, just looking at what they currently have on them and the price and giving my own conclusion as to how they would play.

Good luck with your decision. I would definitely fire each of them and try to figure out which one you like better. The feel of walking an eblade versus an emag is different, so make sure you try both and choose whichever you like best.

[mcdkid]

autocockers are more accurate i own both, and its about even my friend. honestly, what seemed to hit the same target most to me was my old micro magwith an armson stealth.

IMO, an armson stealth is what you need for any gun if you want some great accuracy

[JoshK]

I dont have any experiance with the ebladed cocker...but I've had two mechanical ones and a hyperframed mag (have it now), and I have only had one problem ever with my mag (the solinoid screws came loose so it wouldnt fire), compared to the countless ive had with my cockers. But then again the major problems I've had with cockers is the front pnuematics, and the eblade covers that. And that back block sure is mesmerizing.

I personally would go with the emag because it is just as accurate, and fast as the cocker, plus its like two guns in one...a electro primary, and a mechanical secondary. And as far as air goes...just get a tank like a 88/4500...that will last you a long time (it lasted me 1500 shots, plus a few tinkering shots (for my stingray).

[MonsterMag]

cockers suck mags rule

Emag wins hands down :clap:

[Dayspring]

That was filled with so much BS that I'm having to put my boots on to get through it...

THERE IS NO ACCURACY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN COCKERS AND MAGS.

Paint to barrel match & consistent air source. THAT is how you get accuracy. So, would you like to show me this kit that gives the mag better accuracy? I'd LOVE to see what we've all been missing out on for years.

:rolleyes:


Ok, I'll clarify. With enough money you can push a mag to have accuracy similar to an autococker. BUT, That emag already costs more than the e-cocker, and I would guarantee that ecocker setup would already outshoot the mag as far as accuracy is concerned. So unless he wants to pay more money to buy the emag and then invest even more on a kit to improve accuracy, then I would advise the autococker if he was concerned with accuracy. Plus, if you took the money invested in the kit I've seen claiming to raise the accuracy of mags to that of cockers, and instead invested it in the already cheaper cocker, once again the cocker would win. I'm just talking about money and functionality. I said in the first thread not to take offense. I have fired very accurate mags that had 2 different kits on them, but IN THIS CASE, that autococker will be more accurate than the mag which doesn't have a kit mentioned in its add-ons. The autococker will shoot just as fast, and costs less (and should cost even less than that as I mentioned before). But I also know that paintball is a game of personal feel. I play both guns, and I respect and enjoy them both. I'm not saying every cocker is better than every mag or vice versa. I'm just saying what I see as the better deal for this ONE situation. In my opinion the advantage I see of the emag is that it will probably play a bit tighter than the autococker. I have always hated the mag vs. cocker rivalry. Both guns are awesome in their own respect and people just need to get over it. I'm not putting down either gun, just looking at what they currently have on them and the price and giving my own conclusion as to how they would play.

Good luck with your decision. I would definitely fire each of them and try to figure out which one you like better. The feel of walking an eblade versus an emag is different, so make sure you try both and choose whichever you like best.

[MonsterMag]

True that , I am gonna Quote Tom Kaye on this

"Accuracy, you get the barrel for accuracy. Thats is not our job , you go get a barrel somewere else."
http://www.airgun.com/xmag/html/AirgunDesigns_HB.asf

You put a $200 barrel kit on any marker and it will shoot great ;)

[93civiccpe]

cockers suck mags rule

Emag wins hands down :clap:


Wow.. no one in here can be objective. I play both. I like both. I know what I've experienced with both. If an autococker is too complicated for you, I bet you own a macintosh. They don't take a rocket scientist, you just have to look at how they operate and then it is simple. And I stick with my decision... the autococker price is inflated.. get it down where it needs to be and it is a much better deal. (bunch of cocker haters... can't be neutral to save your lives... i need to sell both my mag and my cocker and go buy something like a spyder so I won't have to deal with this stupidity). :D

[JoshK]

Wow.. no one in here can be objective. I play both. I like both. I know what I've experienced with both. If an autococker is too complicated for you, I bet you own a macintosh. They don't take a rocket scientist, you just have to look at how they operate and then it is simple. And I stick with my decision... the autococker price is inflated.. get it down where it needs to be and it is a much better deal. (bunch of cocker haters... can't be neutral to save your lives... i need to sell both my mag and my cocker and go buy something like a spyder so I won't have to deal with this stupidity). :D

Now you are just being stereotypical. You pick out the one person who didn't actually explain himself and accuse us all of being that way.

[93civiccpe]

Now you are just being stereotypical. You pick out the one person who didn't actually explain himself and accuse us all of being that way.

Sure I am. And "i have to use boots to get through the BS.. etc". I am an engineer. I own both and I play with both. I support both companies. You are making me defend the autococker side because all you will do is take the mag side and put down cockers. I own both and I play both so I'm going to speak honestly and not play into the stupid rivalry/feud. My mag has an x-valve with lvl 10. I have a freak kit for it and my autococker. I can put the same tip, same insert, and same paint into each. I know from experience which one hits ball on ball. Plain and simply. Now is the spread that much different on the mag that it isn't usable, OF COURSE NOT.. OR ELSE I WOULDN'T OWN ONE. You said that matching paint & barrel & having a consistent air source is what determines the flight characteristics of the paintball. I agree.. these are some of the major factors. But the air source becomes an issue when talking about an open bolt blowback and a closed bolt. They operate differently. The two designers didn't copy each other. As an engineer, I appreciate both designs, and actually I have my own design I'm having fabricated that isn't like either. I know from experience that with my cocker at a long range target I can be a little more consistent than with my mag. Is that such a terrible thing to say?? With the lvl 10, x-valve & ult I can walk my mag faster than my mech cocker. When it comes to emags I don't personally like the look of the big battery pack. They should make a battery pack that is round with ribs like a foregrip should look like.. that would be tight and very easy to create.

Read this, this is just one of the many things about the cocker vs mag arguement that is so stupid people need to get over it. Look at the last line... I do own both and I do really like playing both. Yet you are accusing me of being an autococker biased person who hates mags. It isn't true. Here's the article taken off of WarPig.com:

Is it the best? Better than the AutoCocker?

The AutoCocker vs. Automag debate will rage for some time to come. Many 'Mag owners will say their gun is best, while many 'Cocker owners will claim they've got the better gun..

The facts are that both guns are in the same class. They are both used by top professional teams. They are both high performance guns and they both tend to cost their owners lots of money.

The 'Mag is known for its simplicity of design and maintenance, its very high rate of fire, and its dislike for liquid CO2. The 'Cocker is known for its complexity of design, occasional severe maintenance problems, tedious normal maintenance, and its long effective range.

Both camps claim that their guns can be modified to operate as well as the others. The 'Mag biggots (automaggots) claim that the Black Box modification from SmartParts (see below) can increase the effective range of the Automag to compete with that of the AutoCocker. The AutoCocker biggots claim that the AutoCocker can be made to shoot just as fast as an Automag with some professional trigger customization work.

"They're both right given well worked guns in the hands of someone who can use them to their fullest. It's a lot simpler to utilize the 'mags much closer to the limit by normal people than a 'cocker. Trigger pulling especially is definitely an area where each individuals shooting style makes a big difference." --John D. Mitchell ([email protected])

With enough money, either gun can be made into a lethal, professional quality paintball gun. Either gun will likely outperform its owner for many years -- by which time he will probably own one of each anyway.

[93civiccpe]

I forgot.. here's one of the other mods mention, but this one wasn't one of the ones I've tested:


"[Paintball] Checkpoint very definitely does have their own version of this modification which Greg endearingly calls his 'distance enhancer' modification. It is basically a tap done into the air chamber, a 90 degree elbow and a custom drilled expansion tube that sits against the body of the gun rather than sticking straight out like the black box. At least as good as the SP mod and a whole lot cheaper! ... The modification lowers the pressure in the air chamber so the ball get's spiked less so ball breakage decreases. ... This definitely does *not* in any way raise the velocity of the gun."
--John D. Mitchell ([email protected])

[JoshK]

Also, I know atleast I have owned both, and like you have not owned the electro version of the other. I know from my experiance that cockers can be a pain in the butt to fix, because they have more problems. But alot of those are from the 3-way which like I said in my post is fixed with a eblade...

The whole thing that got me was when you took a below average answer and generalized. Thats the only problem I have.

[FSU_Paintball]

Honestly? As someone who has owned 2 mags 2 cockers and many others?

Timmy, Matrix, or Freestyle.

[JoshK]

I forgot.. here's one of the other mods mention, but this one wasn't one of the ones I've tested:


"[Paintball] Checkpoint very definitely does have their own version of this modification which Greg endearingly calls his 'distance enhancer' modification. It is basically a tap done into the air chamber, a 90 degree elbow and a custom drilled expansion tube that sits against the body of the gun rather than sticking straight out like the black box. At least as good as the SP mod and a whole lot cheaper! ... The modification lowers the pressure in the air chamber so the ball get's spiked less so ball breakage decreases. ... This definitely does *not* in any way raise the velocity of the gun."
--John D. Mitchell ([email protected])

Also to some extent that article you quoted is not very acurate because that much be a older article...there is no need for a "black box", both guns are now both stupidly fast, they both shoot the same distance, and with the same accuracy.

[SlartyBartFast]

I am an engineer.

Yet you quote articles and seem to support the idea of the SP Magic Box. :rofl:

You need HIP WADERS not boots to get through the BS of that thing. Almost as good as the spin SP said their ported barrels gave the ball. :rofl:

You should have your liscence revoked. :p


I know from experience that with my cocker at a long range target I can be a little more consistent than with my mag. Is that such a terrible thing to say??

No. But you have to admit, that form an engineering point of view, that the statement is simply personal opinion and non-empirical.

If you test, you'll find your opinion is groundless. Or at least the reason for better long distance performance has NOTHING to do with the marker or how the marker functions but with either your experience or how you handle the different markers.

[SlartyBartFast]

I forgot.. here's one of the other mods mention, but this one wasn't one of the ones I've tested:


"[Paintball] Checkpoint very definitely does have their own version of this modification which Greg endearingly calls his 'distance enhancer' modification. It is basically a tap done into the air chamber, a 90 degree elbow and a custom drilled expansion tube that sits against the body of the gun rather than sticking straight out like the black box. At least as good as the SP mod and a whole lot cheaper! ... The modification lowers the pressure in the air chamber so the ball get's spiked less so ball breakage decreases. ... This definitely does *not* in any way raise the velocity of the gun."
--John D. Mitchell ([email protected])

While you're quoting rediculously out of date articles and disproven "mods", you may as well know the reason these mods seemed to work for the pro teams.

It was all about getting some liquid CO2 into the dump chamber. That would result in a hot shot that would, naturally, go farther. But it's cheating.

Same as chronoing with an anti-siphon tank on a tippman or other liquid tolerant gun and then managing to fire with liquid CO2 (tilting the gun and firing, then the next shot will be liquid fired and Hot).

Despite the claims in the quote above, the "lower pressure in the chamber" does NOTHING when it comes to the dynamics/pressures on the ball. All those mods did was make the Mag use more air/CO2.

There is a number of threads discussing the mod. I suggest you look them up.

[SlartyBartFast]

Also to some extent that article you quoted is not very acurate because that much be a older article...there is no need for a "black box", both guns are now both stupidly fast, they both shoot the same distance, and with the same accuracy.

And both guns were back then as well.

90% of all "mods" that players get all hyped up on are simply placebos. The money would have been better spent on paint and practice.

[SlartyBartFast]

You put a $200 barrel kit on any marker and it will shoot great ;)

Hone a cheap one piece and it will shoot great. $200 dollar barrel kits are just great examples of the power of hype and marketing removing money from your wallet. :rolleyes:

[JoshK]

And both guns were back then as well.

90% of all "mods" that players get all hyped up on are simply placebos. The money would have been better spent on paint and practice.

I assume back when that article was writen, there were neither rt type valves or electro mags.

[Maggot6]

I skipped your entire thread, so if this has been mentioned excuse this

Contact Tuna
Get him to build you the best emag ever
:)

Or

Contact Gadevil
Get him to build you a devil mag
:)

[JoshK]

I skipped your entire thread, so if this has been mentioned excuse this

Contact Tuna
Get him to build you the best emag ever
:)

Or

Contact Gadevil
Get him to build you a devil mag
:)
EDIT: sorry...was the wrong thread. But I guess that would be cool for him...but that would also be much more expensive.

[93civiccpe]

...You need HIP WADERS not boots to get through the BS of that thing. Almost as good as the spin SP said their ported barrels gave the ball. :rofl:

You should have your liscence revoked. :p
...

Wow.. first I don't know what a liscense is... maybe you meant license. (not the first canuk who couldn't write). Then again, I doubt you have a chance at an engineering degree after reading that. I wish I could understand more of what you typed, but either your english is bad or you typed way too fast. I am an engineer.. I understand these guns at the most basic level. I also know what running a gun on low pressure does for it, and yes it does affect the flight. I have set up on a consistant stand a mech cocker and a mech mag, both with freak kits. The mag had more $ in it at the time as it had x-valve. Neither gun was mine. (It was a college project). The results had them being almost the same except when you got to somewhere around 240ft away or something. At that range neither were impressive though.

If you go back and read, I never made any of those changes to my mag. I like mine the way it was. As i said, I have tried OTHER PEOPLE'S mags who had done mods. I didn't see anything worthy of me doing it to my mag. Once again, I never said every autococker was more accurate than every mag. FOR GOSH SAKES TRY READING THIS LINE AGAIN. I HAVE BOTH A MAG AND A COCKER. I PLAY THEM BOTH AND ENJOY THEM BOTH. I LIKE THE DIFFERENT ENGINEERING OF BOTH.

I think it is sad how all the mag fans who love talking smack about killing cockers are quick to jump on the mag side and trying to stop stupidity. I'm done posting on this thread. I like both of my guns.. and I'm actually intelligent to know what the differences and limitations of both are, and also that this rivalry is stupid. If I posted an article about mags & cockers in an autococker forum and i mentioned anything good about the mag then I know I would get the same thing. I thought we had more open minded people in here who could respect any gun, not just the one they have in their bag. And btw, I have had electro's of both. I like the mechs better for now.

[Dayspring]

So being that the mag takes a pressure over 500, that makes it a High pressure input marker. But in your expert opinion, is it a low on-ball pressure marker? I know the answer to this, I don't think you do.

And we're not bashing cockers. Far from it. We're bashing the fact that you still think that the cocker is more accurate. Tests have been done. Many times over. And they all say you're wrong.

[Carbon]

why is this thread so 1995 :(

[MonsterMag]

Hone a cheap one piece and it will shoot great. $200 dollar barrel kits are just great examples of the power of hype and marketing removing money from your wallet. :rolleyes:
You get the point :tard:

[SpecialBlend2786]

why is this thread so 1995 :(
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
JUST WHAT I WAS THINKING :hail:

[Pr0d1gy]

I thought this was put to bed years ago. :rolleyes:

Yeah man, even back in the day when I was playing this myth was constantly thrown about. A properly setup Mag can be every bit as accurate as the best Cocker ever made. Hell my old Minimag was the most accurate gun on the field alot of days...BUT, accuracy is only determined by your barrel & paint matching up, Go to PBnation's forums to the Airgun Designs thread & read the why I should buy a Mag sticky...says it all.

***Oh and one other thing, there's nothing worse than missing a round or more of paintball because you are sitting at the load out area trying to get your gun working right. Mag's are 99.999% reliable.

[Jack & Coke]

And we're not bashing cockers. Far from it. We're bashing the fact that you still think that the cocker is more accurate. Tests have been done. Many times over. And they all say you're wrong.

cockers are not more accurate. Come on man, everyone knows they shoot farther and flatter.













;)

[deathstalker]

Won't somebody think of the gnomes?!?

[Dayspring]

Thanks Jerk... I mean Jack! ;)


cockers are not more accurate. Come on man, everyone knows they shoot farther and flatter.



;)

[SlartyBartFast]

(not the first canuk who couldn't write). Then again, I doubt you have a chance at an engineering degree after reading that.

Oh No! Slagged by an ethno-centric, prejudiced, grammar Nazi. :eek: However will I get over the shame... :rolleyes:

If a little old typo on a discussion board confused you that much (and it’s “Canuck” smart guy), well, you have my sympathies. :tard:

Where did I put my list of quotes about dumb Americans?? :rofl:

(Before this degenerates; relax guys, unlike Wonder Engineer I know not to generalise and try not to. :nono: )

Otherwise, how about addressing the technical and logical arguments (both mine and others) and drop the ad homonym attacks. Either change your mind and respond to this thread, or show that the only trick you have up your sleeve is to insult and run.


I am an engineer.. I understand these guns at the most basic level. I also know what running a gun on low pressure does for it, and yes it does affect the flight.

The quotes that you provided and the general point of your posts indicates, engineer or not, that you DO NOT understand the markers “at their basic level”. You may understand how they work, but you really are just guessing and believing various hype and misinformation as to ball flight dynamics.

If you are so sure about how low pressure helps, how does it help? Do you even understand what a “low pressure” marker is? Have a look in the Deep Blue data thread and you’ll see that nearly all markers have the same “on-ball” pressure for about the same times. The only difference is between the required operating pressure.

Now, if the “on-ball” pressure IS different between two markers, what property on the ball after it leaves the barrel changes the basic Newtonian physics of an object travelling at a given velocity, at a given angle, will travel a given distance before hitting ground? Assuming of course two balls of the same size, shape, and weight, both travelling at the same muzzle velocity. Or, what can you provide that disproves AGD’s ball flight data? Or disproves the vortex shedding conclusions in the trajectory thread in Deep Blue?

So, Mr. Engineer, what’s your proof on LP and differing ball trajectories? (just for the record, I’m a B.Eng Mechanical with an Automotive design specialty. For some reason my occasional typo didn’t stop me from getting a degree or a career in technical writing and instruction.)

The interesting aside: According to AGD, the mag would be more efficient with a HIGHER input requirement. But, people would still complain about the unused “bottom of the tank” even if the number of delivered shots were similar or even better. Look into the "hypermag" experiments.


The mag had more $ in it at the time as it had x-valve. Neither gun was mine. (It was a college project). The results had them being almost the same except when you got to somewhere around 240ft away or something. At that range neither were impressive though.

Seeing as the Xvalve does NOTHING for accuracy (it’s lighter, adds trigger reactivity, and prevents chops with level10) the more $ in the mag is an unfair comparison if looking at how much you have to put into either to “gain accuracy”. A standard valved Mag upgraded to Xvalve is also a ridiculous comparison as the Xvalve can be had much cheaper as part of a complete marker now (RT Pro Custom).

And 240ft?!? That’s one heck of a long ball. If that testing constitutes your proof, you’ve shown that the only consideration to be had when choosing between a cocker and a mag is price and personal preference.

So, your only reason to prefer the cocker is because a mag can cost more? But you’re comparing a topped out mag with an Xvalve. But now, consider the price of a stock RT Pro that requires NO modifications and compare to a stock Cocker that depending on what you’re after could need a number of upgraded parts. But, yea, good cockers can be had cheap second hand. But so also can good mags.


I think it is sad how all the mag fans who love talking smack about killing cockers are quick to jump on the mag side and trying to stop stupidity. I'm done posting on this thread. I like both of my guns..

Hmm. Personally, I just like stomping on stupidity. Say some stupid things supporting mags (wait, you did. You quoted the magic box as a serious mag “upgrade”) and I’ll be all over you as much as if the stupidity is supporting cockers.


and I'm actually intelligent to know what the differences and limitations of both are, and also that this rivalry is stupid.

Glad you think the rivalry is stupid. I think you’ll find a majority of the informed players will agree.

But your knowledge of the limitations (of both the different markers and of paintball in general) is precisely what others and I are questioning. If you were intelligent enough to know the real differences and limitations you wouldn’t hold any stock in the quotes you provided and wouldn’t have said some of what you posted.

About the only limitations that can be said of either marker is that a cocker requires more maintenance than normal, and is more complex mechanically. The Mag on the other hand is now a fairly complex beast as well with level10 and ULT, and compared to other markers is considered a little more of a gas hog.

But, “walkability” would seem to be pretty much a matter of personal preference and habit, both will fire faster than you can humanly pull the trigger, and both are as “accurate” as a paintball marker can get.

Glad you like both your markers, but doesn’t change the fact you’re still misinformed about the two of them and have some unfounded theories about paintball in general.

(Typed slower off-line and ran the spell check. Understand me this time? :p )

[ben-afficial]

no one is yet to mention that a guns accuracy does lay within the barrel but.....even with that $200 barrel kit....a crappy aim is still a crappy aim.....give oli lang a talon and hell still be good, give shatner a million doller cocker/mag and hell still suck :dance:

[kurama]

Well, my best friend and teammate has owned both. Which has meant that I've shot both a ton. Right now, he owns an emag :)

Anyways in my experience, the emag was better. They weighed about the same but the emag was smaller and didn't have a beavertail and moving external parts. There's also no solenoid sticking out to get shot off or hosing. Yes, it does happen wether you say so or not, you'll get shot there eventually. Heck, I've been shot down the barrel twice in a row I found after cleaning my marker and finding someone else's paint in my breech! Also, the Level 10 bolt makes the mag chop-resistant for the most part. While I've yet to have an ecocker chop on me, it *is* out there waiting to happen. The emag can also be a mech if you ever need it to be one. The cocker is more gas efficient though. Still, with all that stacked against it, air efficiency doesn't mean too much. The big problem with mags is that a blade trigger costs $50... And you get one to choose from. A good one, but selection is good.

So, in my opinion the Emag will suit you better. Plus its a mag; what could go wrong?

-----

Oh and paintball markers don't go 240ft. Safe velocities at roughly 45* go around 140ft tops. The mag also has a lower pressure on the ball itself. Anyways, low pressure would not affect trajectory, because to shoot a paintball at the same velocity with a lower pressure you must increase volume which would have the same effect. The only advantage low pressure has is that you can shoot deeper into a tank. A 400psi marker can shoot without problems untiil the tank is at 400psi and an 800psi marker when the tank is at 800psi. Now, if you'd like to argue otherwise, go ahead. This isn't the place for it though.

I'm sure the cocker was more accurate. However, it was not because its a cocker. You didn't take everything into account. To truely test this (and it would still be psuedoscience), you must use the same air source under the same conditions regulated by the same regulator through the same barrel etc. So, you'd have to find identical condition regulators barrels and tanks. To do this on an automag with a built in regulator, you'd have to gut the reg on the mag which you didn't do or you would have said you did. And I'm fairly sure this would have adverse effects on any RT-style valve anyways. Also, there could have been a different temperature, wind strength or direction, moisture in the breech or in the air, etc.

[magncocker]

I finally found this thread.. I think. I think 93civ is my friend ryan. He is the reason I got a mag to go along with my cocker. He had told me about this thread when we played a week ago, and the reason he told me was the current situation. He was playing his mag since we were at a field and he kept getting heckled by these 3 autococker users and a timmy user. He was basically blowing them off as they insisted mags suck and autocockers rule. I couldn't believe what jerks the idiots were being. And then ryan told me about being on the other side of fence on here just for suggesting a person buy an e-cocker.

It's hilarious. I know how he feels if this is ryan, which i'm pretty sure it is. (seeing as he drives a 93 civic). He actually likes the differences in the two guns, and sees his guns as equal, but he uses them in different situations. As far as accuracy is concerned, I know he did exhaustive testing pushing the limits of 4 guns... 2 different mags and 2 different cockers. In the end, his clue to me was that in general, as long as a paintball gun is pushing the right & consistent amount of air it doesn't matter who makes it or what style of gun it is as far as accuracy is concerned. For a while he had a contest going where he had a pot, and if you could outshoot EITHER of his guns you would win the pot. Basically it cost $1 to try. And if you used a cocker you had to take on the mag, and vice versa. Neither of his guns are stock, and both have parts on them that you can't buy anywhere, things he fabricated. As far as understanding a paintball gun, this is one of the smartest people I know. He works on nuclear aircraft carriers.

On top of that, he has his own prototype gun which is amazing. The gun so far shows no shootdown, and uses an incorporated stationary bolt he designed himself along with a unique feeding system. I'm anxious to see how fast he can push it with real paint in it, because so far he hasn't broken a single ball in it. The design and concept are unique. I hope he doesn't get pissed at me revealing any of this because it isn't really anyone else's business. But after I saw him get heckled most of the day at paintball, even though he was repeatedly beating the idiots on the field, I was upset to hear that there were mag guys on a forum doing the same thing. I kept asking why he didn't just lay into you guys and he just said it wasn't worth it, he didn't want to be involved in a stupid biased flame war. I doubt he'll post again although he might call to tell me to edit this stuff out and just let it die.

Then again, I doubt he has read your accusations that he doesn't understand the workings of a paintball gun. This is the guy who knew the autococker so well that in the first day of owning it he had it timed up perfect, then changed it around to act like an open-bolt gun, then made it fire on the release instead of the pull, and finally added on to the pneumatics to make it fire on both the pull and release to be funny.

When he got his mag he was able to make it fire on the pull and release, and then without any electronics he was able to make it fire a 3 round burst, which I still don't understand how he did it. This is one of the nicest and smartest guys I know. And a guy whose passion is advancing the game of paintball. He built his own electronic trigger frame for both the mag and the cocker, and they both were sick. But he still plays a mech version of both, because his motto is "if the gun is accurate enough, you only need one ball not 3". He has a bunch of custom upgrades that he thought of and designed. He has a triggerless triggerframe which is insane.

For the record, after inquiring about what came with both of the guns suggested, his personal feeling was that the e-cocker was a better deal, especially if he talked the guy down to where the price should be. He tried to say it numerous times. He felt that with the current configuration/bolts/barrels.. etc on both of them, the autococker would be a bit more accurate. At the same time, he said that it was a matter of feel and the guy should try both guns out because that was the most important thing.

I swear. God forbid someone say anything is wrong with a mag in a mag forum, or an autococker in an autococker forum. ryan could have been a bigger part of this forum and shared some of his unique creations without caring about a profit. His one flaw is that he has a short-temper, and he is a Christian so he's been working on fixing that. He just ignores flamers at fields now, and I doubt he'll do much more than buy and trade on here now.

[Dayspring]

We're not flaming the cocker! We told him that too. Apparently you two share the same problem in reading...

It's the false belief that the cocker shoots more accurate than the mag that we're talking about. IT DOESN'T. All guns will have the same accuracy with a consistent air source and barrel match. Has anyone said that cockers suck? No. Has anyone said that the mag is better than the cocker? No. Has anybody said that his ideas on the physics behind the gun and its performance was wrong? You betcha.

I don't care if he works on a nuclear engineer or at McDonalds. Wrong is just wrong. And that's what your buddy is.

[SlartyBartFast]

And then ryan told me about being on the other side of fence on here just for suggesting a person buy an e-cocker.

Both you and your friend have to re-read this thread. You're not paying any attention to what is actually being said.

Ryan (if that is his real name) clearly made unsubstantiated claims that were challenged. He has refused to address the challenges and has instead illogically and irrationally taken them as flames against cockers.

Let's also look at the attitude of Ryan in entering the thread. It was balanced and informative until one member (jokingly?) said mags rule and cockers suck. For the love all that is holy there was even a smiley! But Ryan blasts AO as Mag bigots based solely on that one post.

Then, when challenged on either his attitude or one specific claims, he retreats into calling people names, insulting their spelling, calling BS (and he can't stand his own BS being identified either), and what little he has added he simply repeats his claims and refuses to admit he might be mistaken or at least discuss the differences of opinions in an adult manner.

Am I as white as the driven snow? No. But I give the same as I take.

[SlartyBartFast]

I swear. God forbid someone say anything is wrong with a mag in a mag forum, or an autococker in an autococker forum. ryan could have been a bigger part of this forum and shared some of his unique creations without caring about a profit. His one flaw is that he has a short-temper, and he is a Christian so he's been working on fixing that. He just ignores flamers at fields now, and I doubt he'll do much more than buy and trade on here now.

And I swear too. He does have to work on his temper. And walking away with it bottled up is not a resonable solution.

God forbid either you or Ryan read the parts in this thread where people actually agree with Mag shortcomings or the fact I questioned Mag based myths that he posted as truth.

God forbid you read the posts that agree that pricewise the second hand cocker MAY be a better deal.

Perhaps the prejudice is not part of the "Mag Forum" but is part of your own prejudiced perception of the Mag Forum.

[SlartyBartFast]

here are the specs:

emag:
warp left (twistlock)
2 barrels all american, lapco bigshot
warp and all mods you can get on it
1.37 technology(or whatever it is with a 1)
and a drop with an on/off and asa.

$550 shipped

and the e cocker:
~eblade frame with eye installed
~wgp delrin bolt with o-rings
~kapp twisted cocking rod
~wgp pull pin
~sto ram-with qevs installed
~wgp tickler reg
~shocktech hpr reg-with dye gauge
~all american 14 inch barrel
smauari trigger

$500

so i can't decide at all. mags are really reliable and cockers shoot darts...

Bringing it back to basics.

BOTH will be reliable.
BOTH will "shoot darts". :rolleyes:

BUT the Emag comes with a WARP. Equal price I'd go with the EMag as you have an electro and mech all in one, and you've got a WARP. If it's a twistlock body you can put a regular hopper on top too.

The EMag might just be heavier as it would be a stainless body and valve.

Now here's a really good idea:

SHop around or talk the Emag guy down in price. If you get an Emag without the warp, you can get the ULE body and WARP combo from AGD.

[magncocker]

As far as accuracy is concerned, I know he did exhaustive testing pushing the limits of 4 guns... 2 different mags and 2 different cockers. In the end, his clue to me was that in general, as long as a paintball gun is pushing the right & consistent amount of air it doesn't matter who makes it or what style of gun it is as far as accuracy is concerned.




For the record, after inquiring about what came with both of the guns suggested, his personal feeling was that the e-cocker was a better deal, especially if he talked the guy down to where the price should be. He tried to say it numerous times. He felt that with the current configuration/bolts/barrels.. etc on both of them, the autococker would be a bit more accurate. At the same time, he said that it was a matter of feel and the guy should try both guns out because that was the most important thing.



Yeah, I'm the one who has a problem with reading Dayspring. Read the above two quotes two more times and try to jumpstart your brain. I know his feeling on the stupid rivalry. Both of us know what does and doesn't affect accuracy. The point being, ryan feels that with the upgrades CURRENTLY ON the two guns the guy was choosing from, ryan felt the accuracy advantage would go to the autococker, along with the efficiency. But he stressed that FEELING was the most important factor, and he advised the buyer to go shoot both of them and make a decision afterwards based on what he liked better. I now know why ryan just left this alone. I will too. As for you Slarty, I'm not wasting my time reading everything in this thread and I'm not about to answer for ryan. You can pm him with certain questions if you like, but he has already said he was done posting in here. When it's a whole group versus one person, and a good number of people are just posting BS, it isn't possible for him to deal with both the legitimate questions and the BS. For every one post he writes, there is like 5-10 coming back, and half of them are not even worth reading. You are welcome to pm him one on one and discuss whatever, although I can't promise he'll even respond. I do know what it's like trying to take on an entire crowd. It's easy to win a debate with 15-1 odds, because you can never address everyone before they keep throwing more stuff on the table. And that's all I'm saying about that. I'm not going to speak for him.


As for the few pm's, I'll try to answer the questions here instead of in a bunch of repetitive pm's.

Is ryan thinking of working for a paintball development company? -that's his personal business

Has he been offered? -yes

Is he putting any of his ideas into production? -I hope he does, I know that's his plan for the prototype

Did anyone ever steal the pot? -no. The closest competitor was an older model custom pump gun that was beautiful.

Can you challenge him for the pot? -no, that contest ended over a year go. The money went to a charity.

Will ryan post/explain his prototype design? -I doubt it, he's copyrighting it

Will I give any more info on it? -no, I value that friendship

Will ryan help you with something you are developing? -pm him and find out, i'm not volunteering him for anything

Does Ryan prefer a mag or a cocker? -yes

Do I prefer a mag or a cocker? -yes

(I know those answers are ambiguous, they are supposed to be).

Can you buy any of ryan's upgrades? -which ones are you interested in?? (I never really mentioned what his upgrades were.. lol). A better answer would be possibly, he has debated selling/installing for a small $ versus releasing the info for free to help out. I have no clue what he will decide.

I think that's everything. If I missed any questions then please pm me or him. I doubt I will post in this thread again. After immediately being attacked by a person who said I can't read, when obviously he didn't take the time to read the "novel" I had written. My reason for this is that I enjoy paintball. And it is bad enough getting frustrated dealing with punk kids who wipe paint. Last thing I need is to get frustrated wasting my breath in a forum, so I'm not going to do it. Obviously ryan never came in here with the intent of saying mags suck... he plays one, he designs upgrades for them... and he advised me to get one and helped me build one. I have seen the random people who come in to say the stupid "cockers rule and mags suck", and he definitely isn't one of them, yet you attacked him like he was. With that, I'm done. Everyone have a great day and let this die.

[Pr0d1gy]

He was playing his mag since we were at a field and he kept getting heckled by these 3 autococker users and a timmy user.


Think about it man. A Timmy user and 3 Autococker users? First off, when has a Timmy user ever had a right to talk trash about any gun? The worst gun I ever owned was a Timmy, it was a terrible ball chopping piece of trash. And I remember going to the field with my Minimag back in the day & seeing the ever confident guys with their Autocockers turn white when they saw me walk in.

The worst thing your buddy Ryan is doing is folding to peer pressure. If I was going to spend $1050 I would get a Devilmag and an Empire Reloader B, and then I would go out on that field and challenge those 4 guys to a 4 on 2. You & him against those 4 dudes. That would shut them up real quick. Honestly, if they made fun of my Minimag I would just laugh at them & walk away, but that's more a test of your character than anything. BTW, I'm an engineer too and I'm getting my medical degree this fall after I finish my computer science degree this summer :wow: ...lol Why is it everyone on the internet has a friggin high end job? :rofl:

[Maggot6]

If I understand correctly (I don't own an ecocker, so I don't know) with an eccker, you don't have to do nearly as much timing and adjusting after the first time. Someone clarify if what I have heard is true or not..
Assuming that is true, the emag and the cocker will both take little tuning, and maintanence problems. They both shoot fast. They both look good. they both are a tad on the heavy side (stock...) So, just go with which one you think looks better.

[ben-afficial]

just buy what you like more...you shouldnt listen to some one who hates mag or cocker cuz theyll just tell you their guns best so you should buy it....listen to some one who likes both cocker and mag, better ratings there :dance:

[christianpball13]

do not spend more than 450 for an ecocker there resale is wayyyy low now ive seen them go for in teh 200's



slightly emo¿ :clap:

[jewie27]

I'll play devil's advocate. I've played both. I like both, but an e-cocker will outshoot an e-mag in my experience. TO CLARIFY (before people start flaming), I play both an autococker AND an automag, and both will handle a very good rate of fire. But autocockers are more accurate,


'Cockers are NOT more accurate than any gun.

[jewie27]

Mags have no external moving parts.

[ben-afficial]

the gun does not decide accuracey.....barrel and paint decide that.....so argue about that :dance:

[SlartyBartFast]

the gun does not decide accuracey.....barrel and paint decide that.....so argue about that :dance:

Actually, it's IMPOSSIBLE for any marker to fire an average paintball more accurately than another.

Vortex shedding and the random forces it places on paintballs will outweigh and negate anything you can do to a marker as far as accuracy is concerned.

What can be changed by a marker is precision. And the only really controlable aspect is shot to shot velocity consistency.

http://www.flatsurv.com/accuprec.htm

Barrel to paint match will increase efficiency, but may negatively affect consistency due to the imperfect nature of paintballs.

At least that's my understanding....

[Swampthing777]

Quick question guys.

Isn't the retail price of the a new e-mag $999 ?


I am just owndering...I checked out AGD web site and thats what they are selling the '"Custom E-mag " for.

Cause $ 550 for a new e-mag is a good deal.